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  1. #1
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    Servicing a YT

    So a guy brings in a YT to a bike shop and wants his brakes worked on. The mechanic says he will try and get them fixed by the end of the week because he has to fix several bikes that were purchased from his shop first. The guy with the YT wants it faster and the mechanic tells him that he can't do it since he has to service the customers that actually bought bike from him first. The YT customer is mad and storms out.

    Now let me just tell you that when you bring a YT into a shop it is frowned on because clearly YT is an alternative to buying from a LBS. You will not get fast service and you will probably be charged more than if you had purchased your bike from your LBS. I just want YT customer to know that. YOU CAN NOT BUY SERVICE ONLINE.

    Bike shops have been going out of business at a record pace. Soon there will be no one but the internet to help you if you buy YT's.

    Rant over.
    Last edited by jeng; 05-01-2018 at 09:52 PM.

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    If they charge you more or give you a hard time then they are assholes. I deal with my LBS on a weekly basis. I have a great relationship with them and they don't mind working on my Capra and have even dropped what they are doing to help me. A good shop realizes business is business and if they didn't have the product to get your business it's on them. A good shop will try to make up for that by providing great service and being friendly. They won't be immature and rude or charge more. And the ones that do deserve to be put out because that's just bad practice. Everyone needs to stop acting like DTC brands are the devil. They aren't. They offer great bikes at a great value a lot of the time and most of us take our DTC brand bikes to the shop we like most to get it worked on and to buy spare parts or new tire levers and other things from them. But if you're treated crappy by your lbs, like I was by D and D bikes here in Michigan, then you'll take your money somewhere else like I did. Somewhere that will have a relationship with you and make you happy to spend your money there because they actually give a shit.

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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeng View Post
    So a guy brings in a YT to a bike shop and wants his brakes worked on. The mechanic says he will try and get them fixed by the end of the week because he has to fix several bikes that were purchased from his shop first. The guy with the YT wants it faster and the mechanic tells him that he can't do it since he has to service the customers that actually bought bike from him first. The YT customer is mad and storms out.

    Now let me just tell you that when you bring a YT into a shop it is frowned on because clearly YT is an alternative to buying from a LBS. You will not get fast service and you will probably be charged more than if you had purchased your bike from your LBS. I just want YT customer to know that. YOU CAN NOT BUY SERVICE ONLINE.

    Bike shops have been going out of business at a record pace. Soon there will be no one but the internet to help you if you buy YT's.

    Rant over.
    This rant is so ridiculous that I can't tell if it is sarcasm or not...

    I should pay thousands of dollars more for an inferior bike? Would you do the same for a TV? For a car? For a house?

    On another note, if I bring an item (bike, tv, car, etc.) into a shop to be worked on, I expect it to be done based on the order it was received and the difficulty of the work. If you're prioritizing based on people you like better or people who bought the bike from you then you're doing a poor job. Lots of brick and mortar shops of all kinds are struggling. Those that sit back and grumble about times changing, subsequently failing to adapt to a changing economy will go under.

    I chose a YT for a number of reasons: quality, price, reputation, and frankly I have had more bad experiences in bike shops than good ones. Your rant further solidifies my decision and reflects poorly on quality shops.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoldFly View Post
    If you're prioritizing based on people you like better or people who bought the bike from you then you're doing a poor job.
    First off this has nothing to do with who I like and don't like. I'm just trying to stay in business and let me tell you times are rough. Then let me tell you that yes I am going to prioritize our bike repairs to customers who support us and buy bikes from us because they believe that in doing so that are going to get superior customer service. So I absolutely believe that I owe it to that customer to provide that. If that means that the YT and Canyon customers of the world have suffer then it is wha it is. You buy a bike online for cheaper don't expect to get stop what I am doing service!

  5. #5
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    Thanks for the PSA - Iíll be sure not to stop by Rays in Fairfield.
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  6. #6
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    I have no problem stating that we stand behind our customers! By the way I am in Vacaville!

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    Times are probably tough because rather than focus on your business and ways for you to capture as many paying customers as possible, you are here shit posting on the YT subforums.

    Do you think people are going to read your story of you being rude + driving away a customer and think more highly of your business?

    Times are changing whether you want to accept it or not. Welcome to Capitallism. You can either adapt and find new ways of attracting and retaining customers; or you die. There are plenty of other bike shops near you that I'm sure will take the business you are throwing away.

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    Quote Originally Posted by howaminotme View Post
    There are plenty of other bike shops near you that I'm sure will take the business you are throwing away.
    Actually there are not. They have all gone out of business...

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    It's odd you say that as there are several shops within 30 minutes drive of your location.

    A couple of which I frequent for service and parts. Never had an issue bringing in bikes I purchased elsewhere or built up myself from parts purchased online. They seemed happy to earn my custom.

    So far your post has a tally of 3 lost customers - you should keep it up. I'm sure it will turn out well for you.

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    Itís not even just a personal opinion. What youíre saying is definitely true over here.
    Canyon isnít far away and other direct sales brands are flooding the market.
    Dealers are only compensating for the lost sales.

    Itís the same thing in other branches anyhow: for example, my dealer does an oil change without charging labor. He wants me to buy the oil & filters from him though.
    I can also bring these things and heíll do it, but then Iím charged for the oil change.
    Nothing unusual in that, is it?


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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by howaminotme View Post
    Do you think people are going to read your story of you being rude + driving away a customer and think more highly of your business?
    Clearly your comprehension is somewhat lacking. I am in fact thinking of my business. I have to give the best service to my loyal customers who buy bikes from me. If that means that YT buyers get normal service then that is what has to happen. I am simply giving the potential YT shopper the downside to cheaper consumer direct pricing that they should expect to live with. And I'm guessing most shops don't have the guts to say this online because of people who think that they should be getting equal service even though they bought online.

  12. #12
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    Thank the LORD that I service my own bikes and don't have to deal with judgmental people and overpriced bike shops... rant over.

    Have FUN!

    G MAN
    "There's two shuttles, one to the top and one to the hospital" I LOVE this place!!!

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    Thatís the consequence, yes. I chose to do the same and Iíve been building and servicing my own bikes for the last twenty years now.

    For everyone who needs service it can make the difference though between a bike that gets full support and a bike thatíll let you wait.


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    Quote Originally Posted by jeng View Post
    Then let me tell you that yes I am going to prioritize our bike repairs to customers who support us and buy bikes from us because they believe that in doing so that are going to get superior customer service. So I absolutely believe that I owe it to that customer to provide that. If that means that the YT and Canyon customers of the world have suffer then it is wha it is.!
    I donít get this at all. You do realize that if I bought a YT and then brought it to you every 6mos for servicing and then, while I was there bought some grips, some gels, a quick link....maybe I see a cool hat...then Iíd be ďsupportingĒ you....and, quite posssibly adding more $$$ than a customer that bought a low level Rockhopper who you see 1x for.a derailleur adjustment.

    Green is green and whether itís from bike sales, service sales, or gear sales, whatís the difference? That guy who stormed out....he likely took his bike to another LBS....who now has your money.

    Iím with the group saying that your attitude is what hurts a number of LBS....and yours could be next.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jeng View Post
    Clearly your comprehension is somewhat lacking.
    Yes. That's why I asked the question, rhetorical as it is, to expand my comprehension of your thought process. I admit I don't think I'm any closer to understanding it. So I guess you got me on that.

    Quote Originally Posted by jeng View Post
    I *have* to give the best service to my loyal customers who buy bikes from me.
    Why not just give your best service to everyone, and take money from customers that want to buy your services rather than your goods? There are plenty of independent auto service shops that don't sell cars and do just fine. The business model exists, there are bike shops in your area doing it. Nothing about the bike biz is forcing you to be a jerk and treat some of the people that walk through your door like second class customers. That's all you.


    Quote Originally Posted by jeng View Post
    And I'm guessing most shops don't have the guts to say this online because of people who think that they should be getting equal service even though they bought online.
    If you really feel that strongly about it - why stop at a shit post on a bike forum? You should post it on your website and on Yelp. That certainly would help us pesky YT / Canyon / Commencal / Jenson / Competitive Cyclist owners know not to offend you with our presense.

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    Man... YUCK!

    I can understand being frustrated with having to deal with a changing industry, but what is that op, other than a threat? You're not going to bring in more customers that way in any type of business.

    A good bike shop is one where I can go with my bike (regardless of brand) for maintenance, upgrades (wheel sets, tires, drivetrain, dropper post, etc..) - as well as anything else I may grab while in there (helmet, jersey, pedals, Clif Bars - whatever) while gabbing it up & getting advice - for years after the onetime purchase of the bike itself. A purchase that the LBS isn't even making much profit on.

    That's how you get loyal customers who will support your shop (and maybe even buy their next bike from you). You can bitch about the industry & threaten would-be customers with no service, or you can adapt and overcome. Sounds harsh, but if your business is suffering, you might look in the mirror - that's the one thing you can change anyway.

    I'm not even a YT owner (came to forum seeking comparisons between a Jeffsy & Pivot 429Trail), but this post stuck out like a sore thumb... or skinned knee

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    Quote Originally Posted by jeng View Post
    Actually there are not. They have all gone out of business...
    Well doesn't that sucks for your community. Because pretty soon there won't be any shops since yours is run by a moron who doesn't care about service. Plenty of shops around the country are thriving and you just want to complain and make this worse for yourself. News flash. No one feels sorry for someone whos business goes under because they are inept and rude.

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    Man----I find this pretty sad really.

    I ride a Pivot and take it when needed which is rare to one of 2 Livermore bike shops----they have always treated me well----and they do not sell Pivot.

    In fact they show interest in the Pivot even as they do not sell them----and some of the mechanics ride brands they do not sell inspite of the employee discount. Everyone should ride what they want.

    Note it is just not the online brands applying pressure to the LBS---a person can always have Beeline service their bike even it the LBS is Local----note Summit Bikes took advantage of this and bought the NORCAL biz so they have this route to make cash.

    Trek and Spec and Giant are also applying a ton of pressure to the LBS in various ways as the MFG begin to grapple with the online realities. We are seeing pretty large discounts at the LBS level these days coming from the MFG's competing with the online folks----in which case service becomes more of a money maker than bike sales.

    Getting into this type of debate with folks you do not know--with influence you cannot control is a recipe for losing business.

    I like my local LBS

    Fact is things are changing and those that get ahead of the curve will survive.

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    jeng, what is your position at Rays?

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    So......with that logic, if someone buys a Specialized or Trek or Giant from the LBS across town because that's just where they happen to buy the bike from, and one day decides to take it to you for service, you would give them shitty service too since they didn't buy it from you?

  21. #21
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    The OP has a point and if he communicates this in an open and respectful way to customers I'd say its OK.

    If I bought on online bike, didn't know how to fix it, then showed up to a LBS asking them to fix it, I'd apologize in advance and expect to stand far behind the line of those who bought their bike there. But, I wouldn't buy online without know how to fix my bike.

    Now, if business is slow, I'm sure the OP realizes it is counter-productive to turn business, of any kind, away.

    LBS owners need to pay the bills too and I don't see any of them getting rich. If the LBS goes the way of the dinosaur, well that's the way it is, and bikers will have to deal with that. Its the guy who barely supports the LBS then drops in expecting too much with regards to service - that is the problem. You either have LBSs and support them, or you don't have a LBS and you fix your own bike. Can't have the cake and eat it too.

    Its been rare that I've ever lived close to a full service LBS and I don't depend on them much at all.

    Oh, and to add, I just bought my son a YT Tues. If I had to take it to a shop for repair I'd show up with a very humble attitude.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeng View Post
    First off this has nothing to do with who I like and don't like. I'm just trying to stay in business and let me tell you times are rough.
    Times are rough because you are a prick, not because a few people are buying bikes direct. If you are backed up a week on service and still think times are rough, then maybe you have other issues. It could just be the way you treat those who aren't current customers that affects you the most. I have just bought my first YT (actually a used frame), and I am fairly happy with it, but that doesn't mean I don't spend money in a LBS, and it doesn't mean my next bike will be a direct buy purchase, but it won't be from you, or a bike shop owner with your attitude toward potential customers.
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    I have bought online, but I almost exclusively buy used. So my bike shop buddies don't get my business. I work on my own bikes, too, mostly. I do go to them for wheel builds, fork or shock servicing, other random bits I don't do. Also for helmets and gloves and shoes that I need to try on. I usually browse for this and that and will pick up something else.

    I also refer my friends there, and promote them when possible to people.

    They've never given me any flack whatsoever for not buying something from them.

    Anyway, good luck on your business. Sounds pretty awful.

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  24. #24
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    Okay so I was having a bad day...

    What I didn't state is that I was in between building a Tarmac S-Works Disc ($11,000 bike) for one of our most dedicated customers (yes people still find value in buying bike from actual people in a bike shop) and managing an upgrade of another customer who spent over $2,000 on upgrades to his bike, and a few other things that were on our work schedule that I had promised out for the next few days. I told the YT customer that I couldn't drop those projects to fix his brake but I would try and get them fix in the next couple days. He wanted them looked at now and a few days was not acceptable to him. Clearly we are not hurting for business.

    I have been a cyclist for over 20 years and I understand the needs to want to ride in our current weather situation. I love to help people when I can. I have to prioritize my time and my staff's time. We can only do some much. I try to get customers who bought a bike that we sold to them fixed asap. I feel I owe them that service. I believe that is what separated us from online and will potentially can keep the IBD in business. Perhaps the current form of the IBD will fail. But we have been in business since 1972 with this core philosophy.

    I am sorry if I came off as a jerk at first. Like I said said I was having a bad day.

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    What a absolutely stupid thing to do as a bike shop owner. Customer Service is the one thing that can keep a business in the green. Bike shops, Fire Depts , Police Depts, restaurants......Its all about customer service. I guess as a business owner, you must have skipped school on customer service lecture day. You came off as total A-Hole, and that is the image you painted for your shop. Good luck with that.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeng View Post
    Now let me just tell you that when you bring a YT into a shop it is frowned on because clearly YT is an alternative to buying from a LBS. .
    let me just tell you the shop you work at sucks. Your management is what's putting them out of business, not people buying bikes elsewhere.

    It's true you can't buy service online. It's also true that I'm a better mechanic than anyone that works at your shop. I know this because smart people don't work for what your shop pays you, and being smart is more important than experience (I also have more experience, having worked on bikes longer than any mechanic I've ever seen at a shop).

    Shops are going out of business because you don't understand it's not 1972 anymore.

    rant over.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeng View Post
    What I didn't state is that I was in between building a Tarmac S-Works Disc ($11,000 bike) for one of our most dedicated customers (yes people still find value in buying bike from actual people in a bike shop) and managing an upgrade of another customer who spent over $2,000 on upgrades to his bike,..

    Are you implying you would have bumped the dentists from the work queue if the presumably working class YT guy had bought from you? No? huh, so pointless rant that cost you business and gained nothing? I can see how you've been in business so long, you're really great at it, turning one unreasonably pissed off customer into 5 [that you know of] never-will-be customers.

    But hey, I'm sure selling Specializeds to dentists who don't know anything about bikes will continue to work for you. Yes, owning a specialized without getting a bro deal is pretty much definitionally not knowing anything about bikes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jeng View Post
    Okay so I was having a bad day...

    What I didn't state is that I was in between building a Tarmac S-Works Disc ($11,000 bike) for one of our most dedicated customers (yes people still find value in buying bike from actual people in a bike shop) and managing an upgrade of another customer who spent over $2,000 on upgrades to his bike, and a few other things that were on our work schedule that I had promised out for the next few days. I told the YT customer that I couldn't drop those projects to fix his brake but I would try and get them fix in the next couple days. He wanted them looked at now and a few days was not acceptable to him. Clearly we are not hurting for business.

    I have been a cyclist for over 20 years and I understand the needs to want to ride in our current weather situation. I love to help people when I can. I have to prioritize my time and my staff's time. We can only do some much. I try to get customers who bought a bike that we sold to them fixed asap. I feel I owe them that service. I believe that is what separated us from online and will potentially can keep the IBD in business. Perhaps the current form of the IBD will fail. But we have been in business since 1972 with this core philosophy.

    I am sorry if I came off as a jerk at first. Like I said said I was having a bad day.

    Oh it's ok guys, he was having a bad day...What a load of BS. Do you always troll on forums when you're having a bad day? Direct sales are here to stay, deal with it or close up like those other shops around you. The old days of having to buy whatever bikes a lbs has on hand are long gone, and people don't want that either. Bikes are too expensive so you either go used or you go direct sale for your best bang for you buck. I happily support a good lbs that has their head on straight, but if I get an attitude of "well you didn't buy it from me so i'll treat you like I'm doing you a favor by taking your money" then I don't visit that shop again.

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    Guys, stop feeding the troll.

    He has the right to refuse customers just as much we have the right to choose a bike shop that works for us.

    In the end, the almighty dollar will speak for itself.

    Thread over. Let the troll dwell in its misery. Itís NOT OUR PROBLEM. Heís not going to take our advice to treat all customers with equal opportunity...so let the shop do whatever it wants.

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    Oh and for future reference the bike shop is rayscyclebicycles.com

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    the shop is actually called Nagana. Nagana , Nagana be in business anymore. hehe remember Office Space.

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    What if I want a discount or make an offer on a bike is that offensive too? Some shops wonít negotiate at all and others live in the real world. I agree LBS is a very important thing but direct sales will eventually win out.

    Local bike shops sell a lot of junk that keeps them in business. Most shops donít sell S-WORKS level bikes very often, my shop has sold three.

    I think bike shops need to have more social events and such in order to stay on top. Tonight on the trail everyone was on one brand of bike, that speaks volumes as to whatís happening in my area.

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    Jeng must have been a taxi driver before working at the shop, then along came uber. Itís called capitalism...evolve or die.

    In my area the new thing is service only bike shops. They turn bikes much quicker than a normal bike shop, sometimes while you are standing there if itís a quick tune up or fix. And they donít care where you bought your bike or part they are putting on for you. Usually for less $ than your LBS.

    Bike magazine has a great article this month on the direct to consumer model and how it is disrupting the industry.

    As hard as it may be, it might be time to come to terms with the new reality or figure out what your unique niche is going to be. I say again, evolve or die. Which will your shop do?
    Last edited by Rhinodriver; 05-15-2018 at 10:10 PM.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeng View Post
    Okay so I was having a bad day...

    What I didn't state is that I was in between building a Tarmac S-Works Disc ($11,000 bike) for one of our most dedicated customers (yes people still find value in buying bike from actual people in a bike shop) and managing an upgrade of another customer who spent over $2,000 on upgrades to his bike, and a few other things that were on our work schedule that I had promised out for the next few days. I told the YT customer that I couldn't drop those projects to fix his brake but I would try and get them fix in the next couple days. He wanted them looked at now and a few days was not acceptable to him. Clearly we are not hurting for business.

    I have been a cyclist for over 20 years and I understand the needs to want to ride in our current weather situation. I love to help people when I can. I have to prioritize my time and my staff's time. We can only do some much. I try to get customers who bought a bike that we sold to them fixed asap. I feel I owe them that service. I believe that is what separated us from online and will potentially can keep the IBD in business. Perhaps the current form of the IBD will fail. But we have been in business since 1972 with this core philosophy.

    I am sorry if I came off as a jerk at first. Like I said said I was having a bad day.
    As a former car tech I get the idea that certain customers always get priority, even when itís not the most convenient. But I also understand making your shop stand out from the others, itís either because of something good or bad. Your original post is obviously the bad part, your dedication to your customers already in the queu is the good. If I had been in your shoes, Iíd offered to diag the brake issue and then offer to order parts and have it fixed in the next couple days, assuming it wasnít a quick bleed, backwards installed pad or some other silly problem. Iíd make that offer even if I had the parts needed in stock, that way I could gain a new customer and get back to my money jobs.

    Itís one of those things... every upset customer you have will tell 10 people about the experience, whereas a happy customer only tells 1.

    You couldíve taken the opportunity to be the go to shop for YT customers in your area... every YT sold in the US does come through California after all. Maybe next time.
    I like bikes

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    I stopped going to shops years ago for service even when I bought the bike from them because of a mechanic's attitude. It isn't difficult, I do a thorough job, to my own preferences and timeline.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeng View Post
    So a guy brings in a YT to a bike shop and wants his brakes worked on. The mechanic says he will try and get them fixed by the end of the week because he has to fix several bikes that were purchased from his shop first. The guy with the YT wants it faster and the mechanic tells him that he can't do it since he has to service the customers that actually bought bike from him first. The YT customer is mad and storms out.

    Now let me just tell you that when you bring a YT into a shop it is frowned on because clearly YT is an alternative to buying from a LBS. You will not get fast service and you will probably be charged more than if you had purchased your bike from your LBS. I just want YT customer to know that. YOU CAN NOT BUY SERVICE ONLINE.

    Bike shops have been going out of business at a record pace. Soon there will be no one but the internet to help you if you buy YT's.

    Rant over.
    My LBS is a big box brand store. I haven't owned their brand for at least 4 years because they don't offer a bike that ticks all the boxes I want. However, when it came time to buy bikes for the wife and kids you bet your ass I went and supported the LBS even though I have and plan to do all of my own regular maintenance. Why? Because we have developed a RELATIONSHIP. I don't expect anything for free and understand they have a business that I want to see continue.

    When I walk into the LBS I'm greeted like Norm from Cheers...by my first name. And I know just about everyone in the building on a first name basis as well. When I need a steerer tube cut or a bearing pressed out I drop in and they take care of me when they can. Sometimes I pay, often times I don't. If I need something small like deraileur housing or shift cables, it's rare I come out of pocket. In turn I drop of donuts or beers from time to time. Sometimes I just drop in to shoot the shit about their brands latest bike or new features builders have put out on our local trails. My point is, I like going there because I don't feel like a $ sign when I walk in. Again, we have developed a RELATIONSHIP. And EVERYONE that walks into the shop has the same opportunity. It's not some bro-type clique of Kool Kids. We are all just riders (even the ones in spandex) that are trying to keep the stoke.

    They also have an "Express Service" option to where if you need your work done ASAP you pay a little extra (maybe for the mechanic OT?). Otherwise it's First In, First Out. Maybe this is something you can implement?

    Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
    Last edited by rondre3000; 06-04-2018 at 08:22 PM.

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