Results 1 to 66 of 66
  1. #1
    jms
    jms is offline
    mtbr member
    Reputation: jms's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    3,062

    Ya Gotta Love Kabush

    Another reason why you've just got to love Geoff Kabush.

    https://www.velonews.com/2018/11/new...el-bike_481072
    My Favorite Peeps:

  2. #2
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Streetdoctor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    2,231
    Quote Originally Posted by jms View Post
    Another reason why you've just got to love Geoff Kabush.

    https://www.velonews.com/2018/11/new...el-bike_481072
    Cause he rode a road bike in a MTB race?
    Denver, CO

  3. #3
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    2,158
    Drop bar bike with 27.5x2.1 XC tires.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk
    '12 Scott Spark 29 Team
    '13 Scott Scale 970
    '11 Scott Speedster S20
    '17 Scott Speedster CX20
    12 Scott Foil Team

  4. #4
    LMN
    LMN is offline
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    5,285
    27.5 for the win!!
    "The best pace is suicide pace, and today is a good day to die." Steve Prefontaine

  5. #5
    jms
    jms is offline
    mtbr member
    Reputation: jms's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    3,062
    Quote Originally Posted by Streetdoctor View Post
    Cause he rode a road bike in a MTB race?
    Because he's versatile [show me someone else that competed successfully in the variety of events this year], thinks outside the box, isn't afraid to experiment, and is willing to share his findings. Damn funny too. And yeah, yeah, just for you LMN, he's also Canadian ; )
    My Favorite Peeps:

  6. #6
    mtbr member
    Reputation: kevbikemad's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    965
    Quote Originally Posted by jms View Post
    Because he's versatile [show me someone else that competed successfully in the variety of events this year], thinks outside the box, isn't afraid to experiment, and is willing to share his findings. Damn funny too. And yeah, yeah, just for you LMN, he's also Canadian ; )
    He is certainly versatile & does well with race tactics.

    I feel like a lot of the equipment choices he makes is purely for attention only and to be "cool". I understand that is part of his job, to get attention as a racer (for his sponsors/keep building his brand etc.) But I doubt drop bars on a rigid bike actually benefited him in this race, but the setup did get him attention.

    Not sure I'd say he thinks out of the box either. He sure didn't seem open minded when 29ers came in, even mocked them a fair bit. His being an engineer left me a little confused that he was so skeptical... Or maybe he realized bike setup has little to do with who actually wins.

    Probably just part of his Canadian sense of humour. (Yes, humour with a u).

  7. #7
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    Posts
    61
    Quote Originally Posted by Streetdoctor View Post
    Cause he rode a road bike in a MTB race?
    Fixed it:

    Cause he rode a road bike in an eliteMTB race and won.

  8. #8
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    1,817
    I wonder if that's the same bike he used for the Kanza? It sounds like the course was well suited for that bike. It does make sense that the more the course looks like a cyclocross course, the better a 'gravel' bike will do. Remember when Tomac used drop bars for everything?
    skidding is the signature of the novice; learn how to use your brakes.

  9. #9
    chasing simplicity
    Reputation: MattMay's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    930
    Quote Originally Posted by kevbikemad View Post
    But I doubt drop bars on a rigid bike actually benefited him in this race, but the setup did get him attention.
    If you actually read the article, he says it did.
    Never underestimate an old man with a mountain bike.

  10. #10
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    1,817
    Quote Originally Posted by MattMay View Post
    If you actually read the article, he says it did.
    Yes, due to the higher speed there was an aero advantage.
    skidding is the signature of the novice; learn how to use your brakes.

  11. #11
    mtbr member
    Reputation: kevbikemad's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    965
    Quote Originally Posted by MattMay View Post
    If you actually read the article, he says it did.
    I had read it. I'm just not really seeing the benefit. Aero is important, but I just think it probably came down to a well timed tactic/strategy, which Kabush is very good at as well. I realize bike setup is part of that as well. But he could have done it on a 29er HT.

  12. #12
    GUIDANCE COUNSELOR
    Reputation: NoahColorado's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Posts
    3,644
    Quote Originally Posted by jimPacNW View Post
    I wonder if that's the same bike he used for the Kanza?
    It is, but slightly different setup.
    Ya Gotta Love Kabush-de4bkeew4aa9bkn.jpg
    Kanza setup.
    NOAH SEARS
    MRP - VP of Business Development
    Pivot Cycles - Team Rider

  13. #13
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Streetdoctor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    2,231
    Quote Originally Posted by tgoods View Post
    Fixed it:

    Cause he rode a road bike in an eliteMTB race and won.
    Thanks! Sounds like... fun.
    Denver, CO

  14. #14
    jms
    jms is offline
    mtbr member
    Reputation: jms's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    3,062
    Quote Originally Posted by kevbikemad View Post
    I had read it. I'm just not really seeing the benefit. Aero is important, but I just think it probably came down to a well timed tactic/strategy, which Kabush is very good at as well. I realize bike setup is part of that as well. But he could have done it on a 29er HT.
    You're speculating. There was money on the line. He's a pro, he'd be foolish [and he's not] to risk a sizeable payday on a set up that didn't provide for the best chance of victory. The results speak for themselves. Chapeau to Mr. Kabush.
    My Favorite Peeps:

  15. #15
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Posts
    702
    Well, its cool for him, but trends are settled that way.

    Shouldn't drop bars be prohibited from mtb races?

  16. #16
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    1,817
    Quote Originally Posted by TDLover View Post
    Shouldn't drop bars be prohibited from mtb races?
    I don't see why, if the mtb course is well designed a proper mtb will be the best choice. I sometimes race my 29er hardtail in cx races; if the course is a well designed cx course it will favor the cx bikes, but occasionally a course will favor a different bike (but usually by only a small margin). I would certainly bring my cx bike for a smooth fast mtb race, or possibly a hillclimb like I mentioned in that other thread. It's up to the racer to decide which legal/allowable equipment (bike) is the best choice for those conditions. There's an interesting car racing book on this topic; The Unfair Advantage by Mark Donahue, worth the read if you're a vintage car racing fan at all.
    skidding is the signature of the novice; learn how to use your brakes.

  17. #17
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Posts
    702
    Quote Originally Posted by jimPacNW View Post
    I don't see why, if the mtb course is well designed a proper mtb will be the best choice. I sometimes race my 29er hardtail in cx races; if the course is a well designed cx course it will favor the cx bikes, but occasionally a course will favor a different bike (but usually by only a small margin). I would certainly bring my cx bike for a smooth fast mtb race, or possibly a hillclimb like I mentioned in that other thread. It's up to the racer to decide which legal/allowable equipment (bike) is the best choice for those conditions. There's an interesting car racing book on this topic; The Unfair Advantage by Mark Donahue, worth the read if you're a vintage car racing fan at all.
    My reasoning was more in terms of safety.

  18. #18
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    98
    safety? how? It's not like he was riding in a group on aerobars

  19. #19
    J-Flo
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    1,642
    NICA prohibits drop bars in high school races, for safety reasons. Iím not sure what the safety issue is though. Lack of leverage on the bars? Hands coming off too easily? Avoid encouraging unsafe passes with risk of hooking bars?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  20. #20
    Armature speller
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    2,779
    The same reasons the UCI use to mandate helmet peaks and baggies in DH racing...

  21. #21
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    876
    Quote Originally Posted by kevbikemad View Post
    I had read it. I'm just not really seeing the benefit. Aero is important, but I just think it probably came down to a well timed tactic/strategy, which Kabush is very good at as well. I realize bike setup is part of that as well. But he could have done it on a 29er HT.
    Aero is very important. Kabush was probably saving 10 to 20 watts while in the drops in the fast moving sections compared to what he would have had to put out sitting upright on a MTB going the same speed. Therefore, he was fresher at the end of the race when he needed to attack and get away. Plus with Yeti as his MTB sponsor, he doesn't have a 29 hardtail he could ride. He would have been stuck with a heavy full suspension bike on a course where the extra weight would be a disadvantage.

  22. #22
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    458
    Drops bars and Iceman are nothing new. The pro race being won on one is. The course is well suited for it for the most part. There are some fast sandy downhills that would be sketchy for someone less skilled than these pros (me). But it does make me want to bring my Cutthroat next year.

  23. #23
    ups and downs
    Reputation: rockyuphill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Posts
    15,485
    He certainly got a lot of buzz and discussion out of the decision to ride drop bars in this thread. Race win - done, publicity win - done. Ability to just pack one bike for Iceman and the CX races - done.
    I'm a member of NSMBA and IMBA Canada

  24. #24
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    2,158
    I raced Iceman this year, and the 3 previous years.

    Yes aero plays a factor as the speeds are high (particularly this year). I spent as much time as I could drafting and not being caught in the middle by myself especially in the more open sections. It did feel there was a slight headwind as well and there was a def benefit drafting.

    We had perfect course conditions, not sure if there was a faster rolling year but i can't really remember either. It was pretty dry and super sandy via reports from earlier in the week, but we got perfect amount of precipitation the night before to tack and pack it. This was very nice as it helped better some of the thick dry sandy spots. There have been years where people couldn't ride through or climb some spots.

    I rode my alu HT this year where last two i've rode the FS (really they are even now).. mainly as i had a goal to get that frame to 8000 miles. Though HT is more ideal than FS due to weight and rigid power transfer, it's still a bit bumpy in spots and A LOT of people were on FS. There were a few spots where I thought "man FS would be nice right now", those were long bumpy stretches that were just annoying as it bounced u around a lot (not from roots), and fast descents that were a bit rough.

    So with that in mind i commend Kabush and anyone else on drop bars. I even saw one guy on a cx (that i remember specifically, i've seen them before as well), i own and ride a cx and f bringing that up there and riding it lol, but i'm a creature of comfort. Maybe i would ride Kabush's rig since it was rolling XC tires, i prob wouldn't mind it.

    The main reason i wouldn't ride cx is that we roll pretty high speeds and there's a ton of loose sand sections that just show up all of a sudden that will have like only 2 solid lines through (or sometimes just one, so don't get caught out!). It only takes you to be just slightly off line a lil bit for things to get a lil crazy and it's just nicer to be holding onto wider mtb bars.

    There were a few times I where I started sliding around. One time in particularly was really wild. It was about a quarter of the way in. I wasn't quite settled in and a lil hot. It was double track and we were rolling 15-20mph and I was off the main line, suddenly i was in a sand pit and I was completely out of control with the bike swinging left to right all crazy like until i could reel it in.

    After that I told myself i needed to get my shit together, pay a ****in attention, and make sure i'm on point cuz i didn't want an incident. It wasn't long after that we ran across a guy laying on ground off to the side of the single track, calmly talking on his phone while 2 race helpers made their way towards him. We found later that apparently he broke his leg pretty good, heal up!

    Iceman is always a good time, unless it's raining.
    '12 Scott Spark 29 Team
    '13 Scott Scale 970
    '11 Scott Speedster S20
    '17 Scott Speedster CX20
    12 Scott Foil Team

  25. #25
    ccm
    ccm is offline
    aka Taprider
    Reputation: ccm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    710
    Quote Originally Posted by NordieBoy View Post
    The same reasons the UCI use to mandate helmet peaks and baggies in DH racing...
    ^+1

  26. #26
    Rides all the bikes!
    Reputation: Sidewalk's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Posts
    2,489
    Funny, as I am looking at a Specialized Sequoia right now, and may or may not run 650b's on it. My friend has a Diverge with a 700 and 650 wheelset. I love that bike.

    I can easily see doing this depending on the course.

  27. #27
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    52
    He wasnt riding a road bike... He was riding a gravel bike that fits 2.1 tires. The course is smooth as butter. There is very little reason a CX or gravel bike wouldnt work just fine, if not better than an MTB. I could count the amount of rocks and roots on the trail with zero hands. There are a couple sandy spots(about 5-10 yards), but 2.1" tires would handle them just fine.

    The course was smoother than most gravel roads I have ridden. Riding a gravel bike at iceman shouldn't be heralded as some great achievement, especially this year.

  28. #28
    ccm
    ccm is offline
    aka Taprider
    Reputation: ccm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    710
    Iceman is not a real mtn bike course

  29. #29
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    2,158
    It's really more of a group ride.
    '12 Scott Spark 29 Team
    '13 Scott Scale 970
    '11 Scott Speedster S20
    '17 Scott Speedster CX20
    12 Scott Foil Team

  30. #30
    mtbr member
    Reputation: MI-XC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Posts
    130
    "Iceman is not a real mtn bike course"

    "It's really more of a group ride."

    I completely agree and I don't understand what the attraction to this event is for a XC racer. I ride/race MTB because I like the technicality of it. People keep telling me I should race Iceman but I just don't understand the appeal. I watched a full POV of the race course on the trainer last night. Its a gravel grinder at best.
    2018 Scott Spark RC 900 World Cup | ďIf youíre not first youíre lastĒ

  31. #31
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    52
    Quote Originally Posted by MI-XC View Post
    "Iceman is not a real mtn bike course"

    "It's really more of a group ride."

    I completely agree and I don't understand what the attraction to this event is for a XC racer. I ride/race MTB because I like the technicality of it. People keep telling me I should race Iceman but I just don't understand the appeal. I watched a full POV of the race course on the trainer last night. Its a gravel grinder at best.
    The problem is... That is almost all of the trails where races are held at. lol.

    I know, Iceman is even more dumbed down though.

  32. #32
    mtbr member
    Reputation: kevbikemad's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    965
    I'm starting to wonder how he managed to win last year on a MTB.

  33. #33
    jms
    jms is offline
    mtbr member
    Reputation: jms's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    3,062
    Quote Originally Posted by ccm View Post
    Iceman is not a real mtn bike course
    Then why do the majority of participants use a mountain bike?
    My Favorite Peeps:

  34. #34
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    2,158
    Quote Originally Posted by MI-XC View Post
    "Iceman is not a real mtn bike course"

    "It's really more of a group ride."

    I completely agree and I don't understand what the attraction to this event is for a XC racer. I ride/race MTB because I like the technicality of it. People keep telling me I should race Iceman but I just don't understand the appeal. I watched a full POV of the race course on the trainer last night. Its a gravel grinder at best.
    The appeal to us is that we go up as a group on Thursday to get the hell away from work and have fun. Honestly I had an amazing time to the point when I got home, I felt a little bummed. The Traverse area is pretty a pretty sweet place to get away to and we thoroughly enjoy it. (love Hop Lot's beer garden)

    In addition, the point to point roll through the woods has been really amazingly pretty at times, and i actually enjoy rolling through the northern Michigan woods like that with a ton o people.

    The party and atmosphere of it at the end (and even at packet pickup, or random places people are cheering like on climbs) is part of the package, especially starting in an earlier wave to finish early so you can change, start partying and cheer on the rest of the people. Then all your friends are back, chat hang out walk around... then cheer the pros on as they come in. It's a great atmosphere and even better when u run into people u haven't seen in a while.

    The icing on the cake for me was meeting and chatting with: Georgia Gould, Chloe Woodruff, Katerina Nash, and just this year Pendrel.

    If you can't get that aspect of Iceman and have fun there, then don't even come as the rest of us are having a good ass time at our annual year end send off! And you just won't fit in I guess.

    And yes, we bitch every year bout how we don't get anything physically from Iceman compared to other races for the money... but we keep coming back because it ain't about that.
    '12 Scott Spark 29 Team
    '13 Scott Scale 970
    '11 Scott Speedster S20
    '17 Scott Speedster CX20
    12 Scott Foil Team

  35. #35
    jms
    jms is offline
    mtbr member
    Reputation: jms's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    3,062
    Quote Originally Posted by zephxiii View Post
    It's really more of a group ride.
    Then why is there a substantial pro payout for the winner?
    My Favorite Peeps:

  36. #36
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    2,158
    Quote Originally Posted by jms View Post
    Then why is there a substantial pro payout for the winner?
    lol it's a bit of an insider joke to anyone that's ever done it (non pro race). If you are in the top waves of the avg joe race then it's much less so...
    '12 Scott Spark 29 Team
    '13 Scott Scale 970
    '11 Scott Speedster S20
    '17 Scott Speedster CX20
    12 Scott Foil Team

  37. #37
    LMN
    LMN is offline
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    5,285
    Quote Originally Posted by MI-XC View Post
    "Iceman is not a real mtn bike course"

    "It's really more of a group ride."

    I completely agree and I don't understand what the attraction to this event is for a XC racer. I ride/race MTB because I like the technicality of it. People keep telling me I should race Iceman but I just don't understand the appeal. I watched a full POV of the race course on the trainer last night. Its a gravel grinder at best.
    My wife says it is a really fun race. The course isn't technical, doesn't have any significant climbs or descents and tactics play a huge roll. But is fast and going fast is a lot of fun.
    Last edited by LMN; 11-10-2018 at 08:58 AM.
    "The best pace is suicide pace, and today is a good day to die." Steve Prefontaine

  38. #38
    mtbr member
    Reputation: MI-XC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Posts
    130
    Quote Originally Posted by zephxiii View Post
    The appeal to us is that we go up as a group on Thursday to get the hell away from work and have fun. Honestly I had an amazing time to the point when I got home, I felt a little bummed. The Traverse area is pretty a pretty sweet place to get away to and we thoroughly enjoy it. (love Hop Lot's beer garden)

    In addition, the point to point roll through the woods has been really amazingly pretty at times, and i actually enjoy rolling through the northern Michigan woods like that with a ton o people.

    The party and atmosphere of it at the end (and even at packet pickup, or random places people are cheering like on climbs) is part of the package, especially starting in an earlier wave to finish early so you can change, start partying and cheer on the rest of the people. Then all your friends are back, chat hang out walk around... then cheer the pros on as they come in. It's a great atmosphere and even better when u run into people u haven't seen in a while.

    The icing on the cake for me was meeting and chatting with: Georgia Gould, Chloe Woodruff, Katerina Nash, and just this year Pendrel.

    If you can't get that aspect of Iceman and have fun there, then don't even come as the rest of us are having a good ass time at our annual year end send off! And you just won't fit in I guess.

    And yes, we bitch every year bout how we don't get anything physically from Iceman compared to other races for the money... but we keep coming back because it ain't about that.
    If that is the ďappealĒ than I get it, but itís just not for me and ďI wonít fit inĒ. Thanks
    2018 Scott Spark RC 900 World Cup | ďIf youíre not first youíre lastĒ

  39. #39
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    386

    Kabush at Wlilliamsburg Rd. crossing

    Quote Originally Posted by jms View Post
    Another reason why you've just got to love Geoff Kabush.

    https://www.velonews.com/2018/11/new...el-bike_481072
    Ya Gotta Love Kabush-45797270_2333396020007452_8098259311618162688_n.jpg

  40. #40
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    741
    Quote Originally Posted by TDLover View Post
    Shouldn't drop bars be prohibited from mtb races?
    I'm not sure, but somewhere deep in my memory, I think drop bars are prohibited on UCI sanctioned mtb races. Or do I got this wrong?
    One more thing for all praising Kabush's "out of box thinking".... Is that same Kabush who was bitching about aero bars on gravel roads and how people should never even think on putting them on? Just asking for a friend.... to get this "out of box thinking" idea
    Primoz

  41. #41
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    386
    One more
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Ya Gotta Love Kabush-45401826_2324190644261323_859918105529286656_n.jpg  


  42. #42
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    386
    Another one
    Second group
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Ya Gotta Love Kabush-45466198_2325509707462750_5439694320833658880_n.jpg  


  43. #43
    jms
    jms is offline
    mtbr member
    Reputation: jms's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    3,062
    Quote Originally Posted by Lickety Split View Post
    Another one
    Second group
    Thanks for the great photos. Ice Man looks like a really fun party masquerading as a mountain bike race - which is what riding ANY bike in the woods should be.
    My Favorite Peeps:

  44. #44
    mtbr member
    Reputation: kevbikemad's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    965
    Quote Originally Posted by primoz View Post
    Is that same Kabush who was bitching about aero bars on gravel roads and how people should never even think on putting them on? Just asking for a friend.... to get this "out of box thinking" idea
    No kidding, nail on the head.

  45. #45
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    503
    Quote Originally Posted by kevbikemad View Post
    No kidding, nail on the head.
    Not sure Iím seeing the hypocrisy here. Aero bars in a mass start road race (gravel or not) are dangerous to other riders. Drop bars at Iceman? I guess he could crash on a descent or something... and take someone else out... but Iím not seeing the parallels.

  46. #46
    Rides all the bikes!
    Reputation: Sidewalk's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Posts
    2,489
    I had to Google the reference. And...I'm with Geoff on this:

    https://www.velonews.com/2018/05/com...l-bikes_467839

  47. #47
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    98
    Quote Originally Posted by kevbikemad View Post
    No kidding, nail on the head.
    Aero bars in a group race vs drop bars in a group race is an entirely different thing. Like so different it's obvious if you don't think so, you've never ridden aero bars.

    Your reaction time for braking while in aero bars is horrible. Not only that, but you cannot brake or steer effectively until you get both hands into a position where you can brake. I've actually been at quite a few events that allowed aero bars in a group, and at EVERY event, there were large crashes caused by the people in aerobars. The event kabush did earlier this year where aerobars were allowed was no different, there were crashes caused by 'elites' while in aerobars, that wouldn't have happened if aerobars were not allowed.

    On the other hand, with practice (which Kabush has tons of from lots of cx racing), a cx bike can be ridden quite aggressively, and I bet on a course like iceman his level of control on a mtb and cx bike would be almost identical.

  48. #48
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    1,220
    Quote Originally Posted by afalts View Post
    The event kabush did earlier this year where aerobars were allowed was no different, there were crashes caused by 'elites' while in aerobars, that wouldn't have happened if aerobars were not allowed.
    Interesting because I was at that race and with the lead pack through Aid 2 and I didn't notice anything of the sort. Are you perhaps exaggerating a bit or maybe "misremembering"?

  49. #49
    mtbr member
    Reputation: kevbikemad's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    965
    Quote Originally Posted by PlanB View Post
    Not sure Iím seeing the hypocrisy here. Aero bars in a mass start road race (gravel or not) are dangerous to other riders. Drop bars at Iceman? I guess he could crash on a descent or something... and take someone else out... but Iím not seeing the parallels.
    My "nail on the head" comment was about him bitching, not so much about the exact details of aero bars etc. It was about his whining. Or at least comes off that way. Complaining/whining or mocking.

  50. #50
    mtbr member
    Reputation: sbsbiker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    2,341
    Quote Originally Posted by MI-XC View Post
    "Iceman is not a real mtn bike course"

    "It's really more of a group ride."

    I completely agree and I don't understand what the attraction to this event is for a XC racer. I ride/race MTB because I like the technicality of it. People keep telling me I should race Iceman but I just don't understand the appeal. I watched a full POnV of the race course on the trainer last night. Its a gravel grinder at best.

    Keep in mind that this event dates back to 1992, and the history, attendance and heritage make this one of top events in the USA. The year I finally did it there were close to 3000 participants. Call it what you want, but fun is what it is.

  51. #51
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    98
    Quote Originally Posted by Walt Disney's Frozen Head View Post
    Interesting because I was at that race and with the lead pack through Aid 2 and I didn't notice anything of the sort. Are you perhaps exaggerating a bit or maybe "misremembering"?
    Damn I guess I was misremembering, I was sure I had read about a couple late stage crashes from people in aerobars, but I can't find anything or remember where I read them so

    Either way, I've seen enough crashes that I would never enter a group event that allowed aerobars.

  52. #52
    Armature speller
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    2,779
    Just because you've got aero bars on your bike, doesn't mean you're going to always be using them.

    I love mine on gravel. In the corners or anywhere even mildly sketchy, you can still use the drops or hoods as per normal.

  53. #53
    Rides all the bikes!
    Reputation: Sidewalk's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Posts
    2,489
    I've done enough triathlon (age group winner at a 140.6) to know that aerobars don't belong in an event where there will be packs of riders. There are enough problems in non draft legal triathlon races!

  54. #54
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    Posts
    50
    My take on Kabush winning Iceman on a drop bar bike -

    you need to have the skill to race a rigid drop bar bike on this course. Even though Iceman isn't technically challenging, there are enough singletrack and sand sections to challenge everyone's bike choice. Kabush is a freak of nature, and his decorated racing career shows that. 2017 Kabush won on a mtb, and the next 11 guys came into the finish all within 1 minute of him. This year, Kabush and Alexey Vermuelen (world tour road racer, michigan native, all around great dude) got away from the field late in the race, with the now chase group not cooperating to pull them in.

    I applaud him for winning this event on a rigid drop bar bike, as the course is most definitely slower (braking bumps, ruts, blown out sand pits, etc) in the afternoon pro race compared to the morning amateur race. I only hope that when the now hundreds of amateur riders choosing to ride their drop bar bikes in 2019 have the technical prowess to complete the race faster than on their mountain bike.

    Being aero with a drop bar bike didn't win this race, race tactics did.

    I'll continue to ride my full suspension XC bike for Iceman in years coming.

  55. #55
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    876
    Quote Originally Posted by nzambec2 View Post

    I'll continue to ride my full suspension XC bike for Iceman in years coming.
    I guess I'm a luddite because I'm cheering on the guys riding simple, light weight, rigid bikes beating guys on full suspension bikes with remote lockouts and dropper seat posts. The cycling industry probably isn't happy with Kabush showing what's possible on a rigid bike. They love to sell you bikes with lots of moving parts because that equals more money in their pockets.

  56. #56
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    783
    No no you donít understand. You need a FS, a hard tail, AND a gravel bike. Kabush just proved it!

  57. #57
    jms
    jms is offline
    mtbr member
    Reputation: jms's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    3,062
    Quote Originally Posted by Stonerider View Post
    I guess I'm a luddite because I'm cheering on the guys riding simple, light weight, rigid bikes beating guys on full suspension bikes with remote lockouts and dropper seat posts. The cycling industry probably isn't happy with Kabush showing what's possible on a rigid bike. They love to sell you bikes with lots of moving parts because that equals more money in their pockets.
    Yep.
    The "industry" wants to sell you greater specialization and whatever you don't already have, using dubious claims/science of incremental performance gains.
    My Favorite Peeps:

  58. #58
    mtbr member
    Reputation: yetimeister514's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    132
    Agree on the prohibiting of aerobars in groups or packs. Sidewalk - what is your opinion of those that are using the bar-ends in the short track xc type races such as the Pedal-fest or the Over the Hump races ? There are several old school racers that still use them and my opinion is that there is a safety issue in traffic or packs during those races. Thanks !
    are you riding or hiding ?

  59. #59
    Rides all the bikes!
    Reputation: Sidewalk's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Posts
    2,489
    I always love the "the industry" arguments. Come on guys, get over it! It is up to YOU what you want to buy, not the industry. A friend of mine is still rolling 26" wheels on his enduro bike. I am still rolling around my old 1985 steel roadie. The industry is only selling you what you are buying! Don't like it, don't buy it! Stop being upset that "the industry" is building us cool shit, and just love that they are!


    Quote Originally Posted by yetimeister514 View Post
    Agree on the prohibiting of aerobars in groups or packs. Sidewalk - what is your opinion of those that are using the bar-ends in the short track xc type races such as the Pedal-fest or the Over the Hump races ? There are several old school racers that still use them and my opinion is that there is a safety issue in traffic or packs during those races. Thanks !
    I haven't done PF or OtH races (they are too hard for me to get to after work from the IE). But I understand that they are pretty packed! I think I would have to see how people are using them first hand. At am amatuer level I don't see a problem with them on the bikes. But I think I would be nervous in a bar banging scenario of close racing and the guys around me were holding on to the bar ends on anything but a good climb. But, again, I'd have to see first hand. I don't have them myself.

  60. #60
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    783
    Quote Originally Posted by yetimeister514 View Post
    Agree on the prohibiting of aerobars in groups or packs. Sidewalk - what is your opinion of those that are using the bar-ends in the short track xc type races such as the Pedal-fest or the Over the Hump races ? !
    I don't remember seeing anyone with bar ends at OtH this year but it's easy to miss. I don't really know why you would want to either, the straight flat sections are short, and the climbs are short. The biggest thing with OtH is that the Elite course will join back up with the other course and there's a LOT of passing at way different speeds. People seem to get it pretty quick and generally don't make weird moves.

  61. #61
    mtbr member
    Reputation: yetimeister514's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    132
    Thanks Sidewalk and Litany for your responses and comments. The primary concern in the PF/OTH type races for safety is mostly in the first 2 min. off the start when everyone's HR is redlined and the pack is bunched up fighting for early position similar to cyclocross racing when bumping, tire buzzing, and bar banging can occur. The rest of the race - really not a concern despite having 300+ riders on the race course and no significant hill climb sections. Will check with the race promoter regarding those type of safety issues. Thank you for your comments.
    are you riding or hiding ?

  62. #62
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    1,817
    Re banned bar-ends on flat bars in cx, I think it's more about them getting very easily caught on the course tape (and repeatedly tearing down the course) than physical safety. I've been crashed-out in mtb by super wide bars, but never by bar ends. If it's about safety in traffic, maybe flat bar width maximums should be considered. The 'old school' guys with bar ends in mtb are just as likely to have narrower bars too, - the guy with 840s and big/long bar ends is probably a hazard

    Kabush 1 degree story; a guy who races the same cx series as I do finished just behind Kabush in the 2018 Kanza, his group (c1/2 open) starts 2 min ahead of my old guys group. He lapped me first race of the season (only that one time), last race he had a mechanical pit stop, and passed me later in the race; it's really cool to see that sort of speed first hand, I can keep up for a few moments, but then he's just gone!
    skidding is the signature of the novice; learn how to use your brakes.

  63. #63
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    73
    Quote Originally Posted by nzambec2 View Post
    My take on Kabush winning Iceman on a drop bar bike -

    you need to have the skill to race a rigid drop bar bike on this course. Even though Iceman isn't technically challenging, there are enough singletrack and sand sections to challenge everyone's bike choice. Kabush is a freak of nature, and his decorated racing career shows that. 2017 Kabush won on a mtb, and the next 11 guys came into the finish all within 1 minute of him. This year, Kabush and Alexey Vermuelen (world tour road racer, michigan native, all around great dude) got away from the field late in the race, with the now chase group not cooperating to pull them in.

    I applaud him for winning this event on a rigid drop bar bike, as the course is most definitely slower (braking bumps, ruts, blown out sand pits, etc) in the afternoon pro race compared to the morning amateur race. I only hope that when the now hundreds of amateur riders choosing to ride their drop bar bikes in 2019 have the technical prowess to complete the race faster than on their mountain bike.

    Being aero with a drop bar bike didn't win this race, race tactics did.

    I'll continue to ride my full suspension XC bike for Iceman in years coming.
    There were crashes right off the start line in every single one of the top 5 waves of the amateur race. I was in wave 2 and got shoved into the barriers 3 ft past the start line timing mat. I REALLY hope a ton of amateurs don't show up on drop bars next year. It'll be a shitshow on the starting line.

    Also, Kabush rides for Yeti. Yeti doesn't make a traditional XC bike anymore. The Open that he ran that was a "collaboration" (aka custom paint) with Yeti was the only real decent option he had for Iceman.

    I too will continue to race my FS at Iceman. As non-technical as the course is, there are plenty of rutted out, lumpy, sandy and just plain chewed up parts of the course that beat you up. Staying fresh for the last few climbs and putting in attacks then are how this race always plays out.

  64. #64
    mtbr member
    Reputation: chomxxo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    1,469
    Quote Originally Posted by LMN View Post
    27.5 for the win!!
    Haha, so be it. But a closer look shows that the Open U.P. supports 2.1" tire width only in 27.5, which is not uncommon for gravel bikes.

    So to all those saying Kabush won on a cross/gravel bike, yes and no. He obviously chose the mountain bike tires at the penalty of the smaller wheel.

    I don't see the big deal about drop bars; in fact it helps with using the arms as suspension. It's mainly the short top tube that gives road/cross bikes such a poor geometry that we're thankfully getting over.

    As I recall, Kabush was a late adopter to 29ers, hating on them for quite a while before having to move over from 26". I will credit him for pushing wider bars and shorter stems, though, he was right about that.

    I've seen guys try to race marathon MTB races that are mostly gravel on CX bikes with 32c tires. You see one of those misled souls every year. They drag in an hour later with forlorn looks on their faces


    Quote Originally Posted by sducomb View Post
    Also, Kabush rides for Yeti. Yeti doesn't make a traditional XC bike anymore. The Open that he ran that was a "collaboration" (aka custom paint) with Yeti was the only real decent option he had for Iceman.
    Give me the Yeti SB100 any day over that self-identifying gravel bike.

  65. #65
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    73
    Quote Originally Posted by chomxxo View Post
    Haha, so be it. But a closer look shows that the Open U.P. supports 2.1" tire width only in 27.5, which is not uncommon for gravel bikes.

    So to all those saying Kabush won on a cross/gravel bike, yes and no. He obviously chose the mountain bike tires at the penalty of the smaller wheel.

    I don't see the big deal about drop bars; in fact it helps with using the arms as suspension. It's mainly the short top tube that gives road/cross bikes such a poor geometry that we're thankfully getting over.

    As I recall, Kabush was a late adopter to 29ers, hating on them for quite a while before having to move over from 26". I will credit him for pushing wider bars and shorter stems, though, he was right about that.

    I've seen guys try to race marathon MTB races that are mostly gravel on CX bikes with 32c tires. You see one of those misled souls every year. They drag in an hour later with forlorn looks on their faces




    Give me the Yeti SB100 any day over that self-identifying gravel bike.
    The SB100 is a great bike for what's intended for. It's a terrible bike for an old-school, Midwest, XC drag race like Iceman. I live and race in MI and haven't owned a hardtail since the early 90's. I'd have chosen the Open over the SB100 for Iceman as well.

  66. #66
    mtbr member
    Reputation: calboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    86
    Name:  IMG_0332.JPG
Views: 187
Size:  47.8 KB


    Geoff Kabush made some waves by riding dropbars but he definitely wasn't the first one to try it. John Tomac was ripping it in 1990 on drops.

Similar Threads

  1. Love, love LOVE mountain biking! Check out my videos of my greatest rides!
    By Ladymountainbiker1 in forum Riding Passion and Stories
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 08-15-2013, 05:22 PM
  2. Oylmpic course as ridden by Geoff Kabush
    By ccaddy in forum Eastern Canada
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 07-03-2012, 07:17 PM
  3. Geoff Kabush and the 29er Scale
    By bellullabob in forum Scott Sports
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 12-16-2011, 01:53 PM
  4. New Team for Kabush!
    By TRCA in forum Eastern Canada
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 12-12-2011, 11:37 AM
  5. Replies: 6
    Last Post: 01-28-2011, 05:30 AM

Members who have read this thread: 358

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

THE SITE

ABOUT MTBR

VISIT US AT

© Copyright 2019 VerticalScope Inc. All rights reserved.