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  1. #1
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    xc race: how much to carry on saddle bag

    how much to carry in saddle bag when racing?



    I carry: a spare tube, 3 tire levers, and a small glue-less patch kit (aside from a one pump, mounted, and a 20 oz. bottle of cytomax water mix, and/or 40 oz of hydro pack, depending on length of race - usually about 20 miles - and the heat).

  2. #2
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    nothing

    Quote Originally Posted by TrailNut
    how much to carry in saddle bag when racing?



    I carry: a spare tube, 3 tire levers, and a small glue-less patch kit (aside from a one pump, mounted, and a 20 oz. bottle of cytomax water mix, and/or 40 oz of hydro pack, depending on length of race - usually about 20 miles - and the heat).
    it all goes in my jersey pockets.
    left pocket: multitool
    center: spare tube, CO2 cartridge & nozzle
    right: extra gus & asthma pump

    1 bottle cage on the bike with a diluted energy drink

    a new bottle and a gu from the feed zone on each lap.

    race length ranges from 25-35 miles depending on the course.

    no camelbac.

    rt
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  3. #3
    XCdude
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    To be nonest I carry nothing, I run tubeless tires

    Quote Originally Posted by TrailNut
    how much to carry in saddle bag when racing?



    I carry: a spare tube, 3 tire levers, and a small glue-less patch kit (aside from a one pump, mounted, and a 20 oz. bottle of cytomax water mix, and/or 40 oz of hydro pack, depending on length of race - usually about 20 miles - and the heat).
    All components on the bike are in perfect working condition, or near new. This is racing you should come ready to ride including your equipment.

    On my sons bike we run one tire iron, one rube and a single 12grm co2 cartridge. We run stans on his bike so no real flats anyway. We havent had a single race flat in 28 combined races. I think two thru flats in 1.5 year of riding.

  4. #4
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    I second the nothing...

    I bring one 20-22 oz bottle of accelerade and a gu flask if race is longer than 1.5hrs. I run tubless so no flats (knock on wood) and therefore don't carry anything. I'll probably get the shaft one of these days like i did last year having to run the last 3.5miles of the course at a 24hr race. Maybe its time for stans now that i think about it...

  5. #5
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    Ditto on the no-bag

    tube, CO2, and master link (!) are all I carry for repairs...... despite running tubeless, I've flatted with sealant. BAD "pinch flat" one time, on a hard rock edge at crazy speed. Bashed the rim right through the tread & sidewall, like a huge snakebite! 10 gallons of seaslnt wouldn't have helped....

    water bottle & gu flask with homebrew energy goop, diluted for easier ingestion. The flasks are great as you have no wrappers to deal with and wont get sticky fingers.... just don't drop it!
    "It's better to regret something you HAVE done, than something you haven't..." -

  6. #6
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    Big Air with nozzle strapped to the seat post
    2 plastic tire levers and a 5 mm allen wrench (for bolt-on skewers) taped to the Big Air

    light tube in the center pocket
    gel flask in the right pocket (easier than packs for me)

    last race had 2 20 oz bottles of gatorade

    Ryan

  7. #7
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    Hey buddy! Sounds familar, eh?

    Big Air with nozzle strapped to the seat post
    1 plastic tire lever and a 5 mm allen wrench(for bolt-on skewers)and a Power link(note lump under large section of innertube over BigAir can in pic), both being under a piece of inner tube and the mnting strap(around the bottom of the allen and tire iron) inself to the Big Air.

    light tube in the center jersey pocket wrapped in a ziplock with a rubber band around the whole thing. Easy and fast. Nothing more. 19 times outa 20 its gonna be a flat or broken chain.

    Waterbottles with Acceleraid. I HATE packs for racing, and don't like seat bags. Heavy and slow to use.

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  8. #8
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    I carry everything in a camelback. Seems a lot of people don't like them, I really dig it. Anyhow, for racing in my camelback mule:

    crank bros multi tool
    2 co2 cartridges and inflator (one inside the inflator)
    one tire lever
    spare tube
    car keys

  9. #9
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    never carry my car keys

    Quote Originally Posted by mward
    I carry everything in a camelback. Seems a lot of people don't like them, I really dig it. Anyhow, for racing in my camelback mule:

    crank bros multi tool
    2 co2 cartridges and inflator (one inside the inflator)
    one tire lever
    spare tube
    car keys
    i use the cyclists' "secret" hiding place - either under the back bumper or tossed in one of my bike trays (depending on how exposed the parking area is). and usually, i leave my car unlocked anyway.

    this way i never have to worry about losing my keys somewhere on the course.

    rt
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  10. #10
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    I like a CB for trail/epic stuff, but the extra added weight on the legs(64oz=4 pounds juat for the water part) during the course of race is a big bummer. And they make a measurable difference in rider comfort..ie heat buildup. Large surface area. Also, try a Bigair. The can is as light as 1 small co2, which we know is usually not enough, so you have to carry 2. I also love my Crank Bro multi tool for all riding, except racing. Way too heavy for what one will prob need in reality for a given race.

    Edit-I place my keys in a hiding spot as well, on my truck. One less thing to lose or add additional weight...or fall on.
    Last edited by Duckman; 05-04-2004 at 09:11 AM.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrailNut
    how much to carry in saddle bag when racing?



    I carry: a spare tube, 3 tire levers, and a small glue-less patch kit (aside from a one pump, mounted, and a 20 oz. bottle of cytomax water mix, and/or 40 oz of hydro pack, depending on length of race - usually about 20 miles - and the heat).
    I keep my racing weight as low as possible.

    I keep my bike in perfect condition. I do a pre ride check the night before ; tire pressure, lube chain , and look for anything that might be wrong.
    Regular care keeps the bad things from happening.
    1. one bottle 16 oz bottle
    2. one 16 oz bottle 1/2 full (back up on long races or few feed zones)
    3. Big Al co2 pump
    4. light tube
    5. gel stored in each leg

    My girlfriend goes to all major races so she has the keys and the other stuff like the trainer I use for warm ups. All that stays in the car. I also use a cooler to store my drinks in so they stay cool.

    Here is my opinion:
    If you get a fix it problem that will take forever to fix(chain, dr.shifting) you are pretty much out of the race. I don't bother to bring fix it tools. That is why I always go through my bike, each ride, daily.
    The other factor to me which is important is your POWER TO WEIGHT ISSUE.
    I don't want to carry more weight which will work against me in races. So I hate Camelbacks. They weigh a alot and with 40 oz of water that is about 2.5 pounds of weight. One 16 oz bottle is less than half of that weight. I fill the bottle about half way and freeze it then fill the rest with water right before the race, that is refreshing.

    I know if I get two flats I better kiss any good finish away. I have never brooken a chain or had major issues. I have flated before but practice changing a tube makes you faster at it . Good Luck , enjoy the races.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by seatstay
    I have never brooken a chain or had major issues. I have flated before but practice changing a tube makes you faster at it . Good Luck , enjoy the races.
    At 2003 24HRS. at Moab, Jimi Mortenson (factory Specilaized ass-whooper) broke a chain on the first lap, and STILL had one of the fastest lap times of the whole event. I saw the mechanics for Specialized going over the team bikes the whole time. Absolutely in perfect working order, every lap, and still a chain break. The terrain we race on in the rockies can beat the crap out of even the most dialed-in ride. It goes without saying your bike should be tuned to perfection for racing, as it may help prevent problems, but not always preclude there occurence!
    "It's better to regret something you HAVE done, than something you haven't..." -

  13. #13
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    OK you got me thinking

    I always race with a camelback because it's so much easier to drink water. Here is a question for the weight weenies....If you put 2 16oz bottles of water in a camelback mule whats the weight penalty. Or in other words how much more does the mule weight compared to 2 water bottles??? I have a scale, but i've never gotten this anal over the whole thing. I need to drink lots or I cramp real easy. I can't beleive were talking about a lot of weight here.
    BTW I carry a spare tube , levers, co2, GU in the pants leg and my car keys are nice in safe in my camel back.

  14. #14
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    My mule weighs 798 grams (just weighed it). Personally I think it feels like less and affects you less because of where it's carried. I'm offended by the idea of spending thousands to lose weight off my bike and then sticking 6 pounds of water on it.

  15. #15
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    It is kinda crazy isn't it? LOL! In reality tho, the bikes still carrying it just the same. took me awhile to get over it. I mean the humanity even.

  16. #16
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    Yeah the bikes are still carrying it but somehow it's different. Because you can change your position on the bike and load the tires differently, it feels like less weight. If the weight is on the frame like waterbottles then you don't get to change that when going over logs and whatnot. I don't personally think 6 pounds is going to make a difference for me. I'm not competitive at a level where 6 lbs is going to matter. 60 might.

  17. #17
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    Heres the deal

    The trick is getting that 2+ pounds(900+gms) of water off your legs, plus everything else which DOUBLES that value. Everytime you put weight on your legs, your also acting like a suspension platform for ALL that weight, which can times-square on gravity stuff, which is constantly happening as we all know. Add a tube(100-260gms). Then usually if ones using a CB they end up carrying a whole multi tool(180gms), tire irons(30gms), keys(35-200gms), plus the average CB(say a Mule) is over a pound easily empty(454gms). co2(2 if its the little tubes) and value(150gms). =1979gms if I split the middle on the tube and keys. Thats over 4+ pounds of static(dead) weight(after subtracting my ultralite tube in my jersey pocket) on your legs extra thats not there otherwise. PLUS, that bigass surface area on your back makes a huge difference in the ability to conduct heat away from the body. Don't you think this huge benefit, coupled with all that weight that your legs have to also shock absorb for, will make a difference over the course of a 5 lap Expert race? You bit your arse it does. I know it does for my 3 lap Sport races. At least for me it does. The 3rd big benefit is mentally I have an edge cause I'm always concious of this, rationalizing that I've optimized my load the best I can. I LOVE my packs of reg rides, but racing I've tried both and never went back afterward.

    The main and last barrier is getting over the idea of it being harder to drink from. This was my toughest to get past. It IS at first. But that soon goes away after a race or two. You become concious, and then..automatic, on when and where to drink. Its easier in some ways cause you don't have to suck(while your otherwise dying), just sqeeze and gulp like hell.

    Also, if and when you have to access your pack for a mechanical...you first have to stop...unbuckle its 2 straps...wiggle out of it...open it up....dig for your items....use them....stick them back in and zip it all up....wiggle back into the pack...find and buckle both together again, find and fix the valve thingie so its hanging right...yada..yada..When I stop I've already got my tube in my hand. Zzzzzip goes the velcro and the BAir and tool is in the hand as well. Bam. Its all there ready for action. Then stuff the used tube back in a jersey pocket, and even the BA as well if ya want, or loop and velcro it back. Takes like 5 seconds. MUCH faster.

    The idea of the bike being lighter without the bottles and BigAir strapped to it and such, is just that, an idea. Its all an illusion. Thats from a dude that races a 21+lb NRS. Thought it was blasphamy to put a full water bottle on it at first. But it SAVES a huge net amt when done right, asside from being cooler the entire race.

    But, this could all just be me, eh?

    Duckout
    Last edited by Duckman; 05-04-2004 at 04:43 PM. Reason: can't spell worth a crap

  18. #18
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    You *******s!!!!!!!!!!

    I'm actually re thinking my race set up using the c-back...your messing with my Mojo! Bock, how the heck does your c-bak weight so much? Is that empty or with h2o? Duck, I agree if you have a mechanical it's faster to have everything in you jersey, so I'll give you that. In terms of drinking out of a bottle vs the c-back, I can't imagine how it could be the same with the bottles. I road ride a lot, and use the bottles and it's just not as easy in my opinion. But lets get back to the really mundane stuff. WHat is the true weight penalty for using a mule vs to water bottles? I'll get back to you with that tomorrow. I have a screw loose,... I have a scale and I know how to use it

  19. #19
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    so you've done the work

    Quote Originally Posted by mward
    Man those are some good points. That's the most cogently I've heard the waterbottle/cb argument put thus far. It seems none of the pros are running camelbacks but I wonder if that's because they're heavier or if because they're slower to accept newer technology. I may carry the little camelback next time, the hydrobak. It weighs 360g empty. Twice as much as 2 bottles empty. I just don't dig reaching down for bottles.
    using the hydropack is 180 grams more then 2 empty water bottles?

  20. #20
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    Man those are some good points. That's the most cogently I've heard the waterbottle/cb argument put thus far. It seems none of the pros are running camelbacks but I wonder if that's because they're heavier or if because they're slower to accept newer technology. I may carry the little camelback next time, the hydrobak. It weighs 360g empty. Twice as much as 2 bottles empty. I just don't dig reaching down for bottles.

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    Duck I think you think about it to much So what did you think about for those 2 hours this morning at your "seminar"

    I agree on all those points. It helps with heat so much not having that big ol CB on you back IMHO.

    It is a bit easier to access water with the CB (except when you are getting tired and pulling a little to hard and pull the valve right off, takes a second of the water pouring all over you knee in wet colder than lately weather to realize what the heck just happened "I can't possibly be out of water already"), but with alot of group rides on the roadie this winter, my no look grab squeeze swallow stash movement is very quick and makes the bottles very manageable.

    I think I have a strategy for our Death March next weekend. You do ALL the thinking and just tell me where to turn. I'll put the hammer down and hope you keep my wheel

    Ryan

  22. #22
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    Stop holding your breath , here it is

    the weight penalty 1pound 2oz for using the mule vs 2 large water bottles. I'm buying the hydropack tomorrow! BTW, my keys were 100 grams.

  23. #23
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    Mojo maaaaaaaaan :)

    Ok, I had weighed a nearby Solomon pack that was 1.5lb on my scale, so I guesses on my Mule. I JUST went out a grabbed my mule out of the truck and weighed it on my trusty 5lb postal scale. 1lb 1oz. or almost 500gms. Yup. Empty, and thats with part of the straps hanging all over the counter cause I halfass weighed it, so its gotta be a fraction heavier.

    I use 2 of these smaller 22oz bottles for a typical 3 lap Sport race. 2.5oz, or 68-70gms each. Yeah I know, the scales seen its better days. But its been amazingly accurate when checked against "good" scales like Mike Garcia's and such.

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  24. #24
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    LOL!! Your prob right. See what happens when a guy has too much time on his hands?

    My 2 hour thingie? It sucked. Big time. Don't those people know I got things to do? Now pay me!

    Ok, deal on the up coming race. I'll steer us, and chase you the rest of the time. No blowing up this time tho, ya hear?! I'm reining you back for the 1st hour, then' cutting the tether. Heheh.

  25. #25
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    the sad thing I'll switch, save the HUGE amount of weight and still get my a** kicked at the NORBRA race in a couple weeks!

  26. #26
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    I can relate for sure on that one.

    Hard to measure for sure. But I DO remember my last few races, haven actually thought to myself while I suffered along..."man I'm sure glad I don't have that damn CB on right now"...as I was feeling like I was about to explode for most of the race, as aways. Heheh. Figure I prob woulda not made the podium last race maybe, cause it was hotter then hel@ otherwise. Yes indeedy.
    Last edited by Duckman; 05-04-2004 at 07:36 PM.

  27. #27
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    my waterbottles weighed in at 82g each.

    keys weigh 49g.

    cel phone weighs 80g. I took it with me the first time my fiance raced in case she had trouble I was going to ride back and help her. Turns out she didn't and was okay and we've since ditched the ole cel phones.

    inflator is 114g w the co2 cart

    multitool is 174. I have actually used the chain tool once in a race so I hate to leave it behind now. Although the chances of that problem ever cropping up again are ridiculously slim...

    I've noticed, looking through photos, that a lot more pro women use the camelback than men. I've never really liked bottles, I have a tendency to get myself out of balance when reaching for them -- and that is probably a function of not using them enough. Practice makes perfect.

    The reality is I'm sitting at 223 lbs down from 265 on jan 1, the weight of the camelback is not going to be a significant deal for me until I'm down under 170, and that's going to probably take the rest of the year. The heat is not a big deal, the second race this year was 35 deg at the start. When it starts getting really hot this summer I'll reevaluate my strategy. Good input though.

  28. #28
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    ok. i'm never carrying my multi tool in a race again!!

    that 175 grams is probably to blame for any of my lousy results.

    hmm, and maybe i'll skip wearing a jersey & shorts. whatever they weigh i'm sure they're just slowing me down.

    but i'm keeping the waterbottle (i only carry 1 because my front triangle is so small that i can only fit 1 cage on my bike). i'd hate to dehydrate and cramp.

    hehehehehehhehehehe!

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  29. #29
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    Duckman got it right on alot of issues. I just replied on another thread regarding the whole camelB. vs bottles. To be honest I Hate C.B. I hate how your back gets so sweaty because it can not breath. Think of all that water you are loosing as a result. More than if you where ridding without one from all that sweat. It is better to have you gear in your pockets, reach down and get to work.

    I will say you might be uncomfortable reaching for a bottle . Don't do it on a downhill. The best time to drink is on the flats or uphill. The more you do the better you be.....practice makes perfect. Mt. biking is about developing skills , getting faster, and having fun.
    In my last thread I stated," the dfferance between the two was night and day" being the weight of a C.B vs. a bottle(faster). I race with one 16oz bottle per lap with a hand off each lap. It is two 20 oz bottles when handoffs are not possible, keep the weight down when racing, it does make a big differance in the last part of the race when everyone is tired.

    I dont carry all the tools just the co2 + tube thats it , if anything else goes wrong you might as well kiss a good finish good bye , think of the time needed to fix a problem. Just one flat has big consequences.
    Last edited by seatstay; 05-05-2004 at 10:17 AM.

  30. #30
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    I am wondering what is worse. With a CB you're more likely to drink more often which will keep you more hydrated which = faster. Is the weight penalty for a CB going to offset the effects of dehydration on speed? You can claim you'd drink as much with a bottle but in reality I doubt it since it's not as convenient. Just something to think about. Dehydration has a much greater effect on speed than a 1.5lb camelback.

    Am I the only one offended by the idea that if you can't podium you might as well not even try? I shouldn't be questioning anyone's motives for racing, why people race is a personal thing but it seems a bit shallow to only try if you think you have a shot at the podium. Maybe it offends me because by that rationale I should just quit.

    I should add this addendum on because I'm not trying to be a jerk: I realize you might be attempting to illustrate the gravity of a flat, you definitely won't place. I understand this.
    Last edited by mward; 05-05-2004 at 11:21 AM.

  31. #31
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    I agree about the DNF MWARD! Only done it once when I had to due to a mechnical. No matter what I always finish the race!!! It's good for your chracter to have a DFL....Dead fockin last! I've had one of those on my first Expert race

  32. #32
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    Dude, where'd you get all that from? I've only podium'd once, being my last race. Thats the LAST reason to be racing in alot of ways. I once had 3FFs(3 friggin flats), while trying to finish my Sport race last Fall while the Beginners were already on the course. Had a flat, then my spare had a slow leak..then I pushed the bike 1 mile back to the truck, and then stuck my spare wheel on it and snuck back onto the course...just to finish MY race..dammit. Like Merlin said...it builds caractor. I then pinch flatted the OTHER damn wheel(it was Carters Lake)...and had to push the bike back 2 MORE miles that time. Main thing is, I tried to finish above all else.

    Just cause one does all that he can to optimize his PERSONAL race setup, doesn't mean they are ONLY out there if they can podium. They are just enjoying the game. Thier personal game.

  33. #33
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    Okay, I just went to camelback.com and according to them and empty Mule weighs 1.68 pounds. With the 100 oz resevoir filled it weighs 7.93#. That's alot of water, but it has 483 cubic inches of storage. I think that might be a bit large. From my experiance backpacking the bigger the bag the more needless sh!t you are going to take with you. I remember not to long ago hiking sections of the Appalachian Trail with a 4,000+ cubic inch pack empty at 8# and full it wieghed 60#. I switched to a 2,000 cubic inch golite pack that empty wieghs 1.8# and full my stuff wieghs 25# and that's with enough stuff to go out for about a week. Less wieght means goodbye 4# boots, hello 20oz trail running shoes. Less wieght on the feet is the same as less weight on the wheels. I can go so many more miles with less pain. I think it's the same with racing or biking in general. I use one of the origanal camelbacks. It's basically a neoprine tube with shoulder straps and a mesh pocket just big enough for some snacks and nothing else. It holds about 36 oz of water and only has a chest strap that isn't there anymore because I cut it off. All the rest goes into my jersey pockets. I'd be willing to bet that my 12 year old camel back might weigh less than two water bottles and the cages they sit in. If you really want to read some good stuff on weight philosophy read the first few chapters of "Beyond Backpacking:Ray Jardine's Guide to ultra-light backpacking". It changed the way I think about a lot of manufacturers of outdoor gear. It doesn't have anything about bikes but the first few chapters are sort of related.
    I like to ride bikes.

  34. #34
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    I see we come from the same school. I've done several week long and mostly solo trips on the AT myself. Plus I packed 45-48 weekends a year here in the SE Aps. I too started with a 6000"+ pack years ago. Now my warm weather pack is 2400" frameless ruck. My gear with fuel is 9.6lbs using stuff like a Western Mtneering Highlite bag(16oz), Black Diamond Beta Mid or my carbon pole'd SD Light Year, all ti cookware, etc etc. My winter load is 27lbs WITH my Northlite snowshoes and ID MK1XL singlewall tent. Packs a 3lb 2oz TNF Thin Air. You are so so so...correct.

  35. #35
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    I have no problem not filling up the camelback with useless junk. Tool, tube, inflator, tire lever. And car key. This is racing, not backpacking. If your camelback has a mesh pocket and a chest strap, that's version 2. I have version one, it's just a bag for the resevoir with 2 little straps. It worked great till I made the resevoir all grotty with gatorade or something gross. I understand what you're saying though, I know people that fill space.

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    ...........and where is your next race?

    Quote Originally Posted by *rt*
    that 175 grams is probably to blame for any of my lousy results.

    hmm, and maybe i'll skip wearing a jersey & shorts. whatever they weigh i'm sure they're just slowing me down.

    but i'm keeping the waterbottle (i only carry 1 because my front triangle is so small that i can only fit 1 cage on my bike). i'd hate to dehydrate and cramp.

    hehehehehehhehehehe!

    rt
    ..............and if riding naked should one save the weight of sunscreen and just put up with the burn?

    may as well lose the shoes..............and shave the head...........trim the fingernails...........and no point in hydrating and carrying all that extra water weight in your body...........and give up food for God's sake............We may be on to something here.

  37. #37
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    Yuck. I have 2-3 reservoirs that are yuck full of that black stuff ATM. I use Exceleraid in them alot. Once in awhile I'll have a resevoir cleaning party with those cleaning brushes and such. Yuck again.

  38. #38
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    no tools, yes tubes ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Duckman
    .... I once had 3FFs(3 friggin flats), while trying to finish my Sport race last Fall while the Beginners were already on the course. Had a flat, then my spare had a slow leak..then I pushed the bike 1 mile back to the truck, and then stuck my spare wheel on it and snuck back onto the course...just to finish MY race..dammit. .
    Dood,

    I like yer moxie. Makes for mucho character

    But no tool other than tire lever and skewer wrench? What about the chain or other minor mechanical? Just run to the truck (ouch)? For that matter, does anyone carry a true chain tool instead of a multitool, would that be lighter (just asking, don't have any numbers in front of me)?

    Also, and here I may be showing my lack of Stan's experience, but are you running tubes or not? If you get a flat with Stan's, is it hard to then pop in a spare tube? Seems many responses are "go with stan's and hope for the best".

    By the way, don't forget the weight of 1-2 water bottle cages (which overall is not much) in this bottle vs. CB discussion. And don't forget the fact that you can lose a water bottle and end up with a very thirsty lap...

    Cool that so many of you have so thought out this stuff.

    -capt p

  39. #39
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    Thanks for sure. After all the prep, training, driving, etc...finishing is THE main thing if reasonably possible, regardless if anyones even still there. Thats a big accomplishement in itself, in my book. Of course the podium sure is fun once and while.

    Good Qs.

    Altho I have indeed DNF'd cause of a broken chain(forgot to carry my powerlink so it was my own fault=dumbarse)once, the need for a breaker still wasn't there. I do have a seperate breaker, but it requires a small wrench to use it, and well....its just not in the cards since I've yet to need one on the course.

    Stans...if one gets a flat with it, just carry a tube as usual. When you have a flat just install it like normal altho you do have to remove the static rim valve. Fixing Stans isn't practical otherwise during a race. This goes for trail riding as well. The good news is this usually isn't ever needed. I'm running it in the rear only right now, as I'm experimenting with it ATM. 3 races and not even a burp, loss of air pressure, nodda, and all the while your experiencing extra flat protection as well as a great ride, traction, rolling effic, etc. Love it. Will soon convert the front.

    Yes, the cages are kinda heavyish. My NRS only has one, so I have to switchout once over the next 2 laps, or carry an extra in my jersey pockets. I like a very light cage, but not at the expense at the possibility of losing a bottle. The stainless steel delta(Nasbar for like $14.95)is 47gms and tight on the bottles, yet easy to extract and replace. I use 1 ti and 1 alum bolt for its mnting. Have yet to lose a bottle, and thats during Heritage Ga, a killer slam-bam of a race course, so I feel relatively safe from this.

    Duck

  40. #40
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    ok, here's s'more dumb Qs

    1 - what's a powerlink? I thought if you had a breaker, you could always break and remove a link and then patch it as a shorter chain. or is that the link on SRAM chains that doesn't require a tool - and what the heck do you do if the problem is at that link?

    2 - Stans: I've been trying to understand this stuff -
    do you need his rimstrips (I've been running Python Airlights for last 2 yrs, if it matters)?
    can you reuse the rimstrips with other tires or are they stuck?
    if you can reuse the rimstrips, can you just buy a little more of the goop to put into new tires?
    do you leave extra latex sloshing around in the bottom and if so, do you pour it out to make a trail repair?
    does the goop make the tire any harder to reseat on the rim?

    As far as cage wt, the wt of 2 cages is less than a CB, but still adds to the wt of the bike. However, you make an impressive argument for letting the bike carry the load.

    -capt p

    Quote Originally Posted by Duckman
    Good Qs.

    Altho I have indeed DNF'd cause of a broken chain(forgot to carry my powerlink so it was my own fault=dumbarse)once, the need for a breaker still wasn't there. I do have a seperate breaker, but it requires a small wrench to use it, and well....its just not in the cards since I've yet to need one on the course.

    Stans...if one gets a flat with it, just carry a tube as usual. When you have a flat just install it like normal altho you do have to remove the static rim valve. Fixing Stans isn't practical otherwise during a race. This goes for trail riding as well. The good news is this usually isn't ever needed. I'm running it in the rear only right now, as I'm experimenting with it ATM. 3 races and not even a burp, loss of air pressure, nodda, and all the while your experiencing extra flat protection as well as a great ride, traction, rolling effic, etc. Love it. Will soon convert the front.

    Yes, the cages are kinda heavyish. My NRS only has one, so I have to switchout once over the next 2 laps, or carry an extra in my jersey pockets. I like a very light cage, but not at the expense at the possibility of losing a bottle. The stainless steel delta(Nasbar for like $14.95)is 47gms and tight on the bottles, yet easy to extract and replace. I use 1 ti and 1 alum bolt for its mnting. Have yet to lose a bottle, and thats during Heritage Ga, a killer slam-bam of a race course, so I feel relatively safe from this.

    Duck

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by capt pearl
    1 - what's a powerlink? I thought if you had a breaker, you could always break and remove a link and then patch it as a shorter chain. or is that the link on SRAM chains that doesn't require a tool - and what the heck do you do if the problem is at that link?

    2 - Stans: I've been trying to understand this stuff -
    do you need his rimstrips (I've been running Python Airlights for last 2 yrs, if it matters)?
    can you reuse the rimstrips with other tires or are they stuck?
    if you can reuse the rimstrips, can you just buy a little more of the goop to put into new tires?
    do you leave extra latex sloshing around in the bottom and if so, do you pour it out to make a trail repair?
    does the goop make the tire any harder to reseat on the rim?

    As far as cage wt, the wt of 2 cages is less than a CB, but still adds to the wt of the bike. However, you make an impressive argument for letting the bike carry the load.

    -capt p
    1. sram powerlink, special link on that chain. Correct. You can always put it together like a normal chain with a chainbreaker if you want. That's what I do. Sometimes ify ou do that you get a stiff link, and it bugs the hell out of you in a race, and then you stop and fix it, costing you ... minutes. But it makes you feel good because it justifies your chain tool.

    2. a. yes, but some people make their own.
    b. yes
    c. yes
    d. I'm not sure how that works. The only time I've had a stans tire come off it blew the sealant everywhere, so pouring it out was not an issue. I overinflated the tire (stupidly) and it blew off. I remounted it and hit it with co2 and it sealed back up, I rode 2 more hours on it with grass and dirt sticking out of the bead. No problem. I discarded the tire later because once you stretch the bead, it's no good.
    e. actually makes it easier, I think.

    yes, 2 cages is lighter than a camelback, but you have to take the weight of the bottles into account to. 2 cages = 100g, 2 bottles = 170g. That's only 50g lighter than my small camelback and only 200g lighter than my huge one. You gotta carry the water either way.

  42. #42
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    Another bit about camelbacks vs. bottles....

    Great that the thread is generating so much discourse!

    I switched to water bottles for racing for a few reasons;

    1) get the 'load' off my back, and legs (see Duckmans info.)

    2) SPEED! I went nuts changing a flat last year.... take off pack, fumble zipper, remove tube, oops! dropped keys, dig out CO2, install set up, inflate, assemble bike.

    >>> note; with no CB, you are back on the bike and gone, BUT, with a CB, go to next steps:

    3) stuff old tube and CO2 into pack

    4) Zip'er up, and put back on back, buckle straps etc....

    5) Now GO!

    As I noted in a response to one of *rt*'s race write-ups about lost bottles, I can't stand that thing on my back while racing. Practice grabbing a bottle & drinking becomes fluid, so to speak. Most races provide full bottles at convenient spots to boot.

    Anyhow, doing great with bottle & jersey pocket contents so far!
    "It's better to regret something you HAVE done, than something you haven't..." -

  43. #43
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    So if you're racing without a camelback you should just throw the tube on the ground along with the Co2 cartridge? I realize you probably put it someplace but in your effort to vilify the camelback you end up stretching the truth a little. On the mule there's one buckle that takes oh, I'd guess .2 seconds to snap. There is another strap but it's pointless. There is also more than one pocket. Asset management. Put the stuff you're gonna need during the race in one pocket. And I don't fumble with zippers or putting it back on. you know, if you practice taking the pack off and getting stuff out and back in it becomes fluid, so to speak. None of the races I go to provide full bottles at convenient spots. They don't provide full bottles at all! 2 of the last 4 races I did were point to point races, no feed zones because you never lapped.

    Sorry, you make a good point but it's funny the way you do it, like a political advertisement or something. Candidate One wears camelbacks and is slower than dirt !! He actually goes in reverse he's so slow because of his camelback. Candidate Two uses waterbottles and moves so fast that time dilation causes him to finish before he starts!!!

    Reading this thread is hilarious. I don't think, personally, one is any faster than the other, it's the rider that makes that happen. But everyone is dead set and determined to defend their position!!

    Chocolate chips are better because they provide more taste! no way! they melt and get on your hands, oatmeal is better! hahaha.

  44. #44
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    Ok Enough!

    I think we can all agree that none of this is going to make a big differance one way or another right???? But, I have learned something from this thread and just purchased a the Hydrapack by Camleback. I'll be saving over a pound compared to what I've been using, the Mule and it will be more comfortable. Also I will carry a spare tire and co2 in my jeresy pocket from now on in case I ever flat wich I never have. There I said it, you know I'm going to flat in a race now and I have all of you to blame! But now that I won't have that extra pound on my back I will be sooooo much faster I'm sure I'll be forced up to semi pro before the end of the season

  45. #45
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    So if you finish on the box next time is due to our

    Quote Originally Posted by merlin
    I think we can all agree that none of this is going to make a big differance one way or another right???? But, I have learned something from this thread and just purchased a the Hydrapack by Camleback. I'll be saving over a pound compared to what I've been using, the Mule and it will be more comfortable. Also I will carry a spare tire and co2 in my jeresy pocket from now on in case I ever flat wich I never have. There I said it, you know I'm going to flat in a race now and I have all of you to blame! But now that I won't have that extra pound on my back I will be sooooo much faster I'm sure I'll be forced up to semi pro before the end of the season
    understanding(or lack) of racing. Racing is so much different that trail riding, If Im going on a 2.5- 3+ hour training ride I will take a CB plus my bottle, but for racing a bottle filled 3/4 for the first lap and the a half bottle at the feed station for my last lap and thats it.

    Is like apple and oranges, both fruit but very different

  46. #46
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    yes, just put up with the burn...

    Quote Originally Posted by AndrewMcD
    ..............and if riding naked should one save the weight of sunscreen and just put up with the burn?

    may as well lose the shoes..............and shave the head...........trim the fingernails...........and no point in hydrating and carrying all that extra water weight in your body...........and give up food for God's sake............We may be on to something here.
    the skin you lose when you blister & peel will just be less weight you have to carry around at your next race.

    can't lose the shoes, where would i put my cleats?! sheesh!

    maybe we should start with only eating light weight foods.....like, uh......well, i can't think of any so maybe you're right. no food.



    rt
    "where are you not going so fast?" (question asked to cyclist on a trainer)

    *rt*'s fabulous blog
    mm blogging

  47. #47
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    Idea! What I really need to carry.

    I see how serious this whole thread got on the C.B vs bottles and what tools to carry etc.

    To be honest all of you got me thinking seriously on what I truely need to carry.
    Racing or not.
    This is everything that MUST be carried:

    1. My baby. Colt 45-officers model with two extra magazines.(you never know)
    2. Peper spray.( I will reach for that after the gun)
    3. Brass knuckles (don't start nothing..you have been warned)
    4. Pump Shotie-(shot gun-20 gauge semi auto-pistol grip, sawed down for Camelbak)
    5.Cold Steel Knife (Rambo style)
    6.Gold Teeth ( Gotta look the part-Ya know gotta Bling)
    7.Goldplatted bike symbol on 14" hollow fake gold chain-That's some Bling-Bling
    8. Stupid large gold rings w/fake diamonds on each finger (left hand only)
    9.Oakley Race Jackets (red)
    10. Power Gel(apple flavor...melts in your mouth)

    Did I forget anything??
    Live to ride...Ride to live....
    The hardtail is not dieing...it's just going underground

  48. #48
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    And I thought I was the only one who carried an Officers model ACP 45, being in this case, a Springfield Armory V-10(relief ports in slide and barrel for all you none gun types) Ultra compact with aftermarker skeletonized hammer and Wilson Combat mags(7rounders).

    Plus some Corbon +Ps for good luck. Heheh.

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by *rt*
    the skin you lose when you blister & peel will just be less weight you have to carry around at your next race.

    rt
    Actually, since you wouldn't peel right away the blisters, which would be full of fluid, would add weight, don'tcha think?

    Ewwwww...blister bloat!


  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duckman
    And I thought I was the only one who carried an Officers model ACP 45, being in this case, a Springfield Armory V-10(relief ports in slide and barrel for all you none gun types) Ultra compact with aftermarker skeletonized hammer and Wilson Combat mags(7rounders).

    Plus some Corbon +Ps for good luck. Heheh.
    Dang, me too!! Springfield Armory custom loaded stainless... can't remember which model, it's the regular one though, no ports. Sweetest autoloader I've ever shot. All the rest of my stuff is cowboy-era. Single actions, lever rifles and doubles.

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by mward
    Dang, me too!! Springfield Armory custom loaded stainless... can't remember which model, it's the regular one though, no ports. Sweetest autoloader I've ever shot. All the rest of my stuff is cowboy-era. Single actions, lever rifles and doubles.
    I'll give you a Springfield is a nice pistol, but when you're out and about, you can't go wrong with a Glock

    BTW, I use a Camelback myself. Haven't raced (yet - 1st one is on June 12th), but I will try the CB w/Gatorade, and a bottle w/ water, mainly to wet my head down with. I have found over the years I do so much better when I keep my head wet in the hot weather. I am also so used to my CB, and where I store everything in it, that I don't want to take the time to learn a new system.

  52. #52
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    what to carry

    well, after all this informative discussions i've now will carry, on my hardtail,...

    on xc races: 69 gram Barbieri CarbOne Carbon Mini Pump (lighter than c02 gas kit), 1 tire lever, i 100 gram tube, very small gueless patch kit, one h2o bottle in cage and one or two in the hersey pocket(s)

    trail rides: camel pack with da tools and food and a 4" .44 magnum revolver (good enough for four legs or two legs, i'm a 'retro' kind of rider)...heh heh just kidd'in, cause that thang weighs more than my bike frame.

  53. #53
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    LOL! Yeah really on the Heat. "Used" to carry when backpacking, but mtn biking sure broke me quick on that except special areas here in the SE mtns. Things weigh tons.

    Oh...on that pump. I've got a LW pump or 2 as well, but they sure are slow when one actually has to use one in a race situation. I carry one always for trail rides where speed isn't an issue. The BAirs are alum I think, and for the bulk, are MUCH lighter then 2 reg CO2s. FWIW.

  54. #54
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    I carry a tube a with little air in it,a c02 cartridge with zefal inflator and chain tool all in my jersey.
    for marathon races I pack two tubes in jersey and one in seatost!!
    for short races I take a water bootle and then I take from the feed zone

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