A woman in your field?- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    A woman in your field?

    Quick question for any of the guys out there to answer, but Cat 1's maybe specifically...

    We don't get a big turnout of Pro Women at our So Cal State Series races, so I've asked to race with the Cat 1 men in my age group (allowable per USAC rules: 1K2. Women may enter any men‟s race for which they are eligible by age, category, and any performance requirements. They may also enter categorized races for men that are up to one category lower than their women's category.). Promoter said "go for it".

    I realize quite a lot of them are faster than I am, but it'd be some good solid race training for me I think (until I blow up!).

    Thoughts on having a woman show up on the line with you guys?

    My only previous experience was 3+ years ago when I only had a SS to race so they put me in Sport Men's SS for my first ever XC experience (I was a rank beginner for sure). The guys all thought it was cool, but I walked like half the course

  2. #2
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    Marie-Hélène Prémont entered a Quebec Cup race last weekend in the Senior Expert men's race for training purposes and was in the lead at the end of the first lap and at the end of the race, but she withdrew from the race right at the end to avoid taking any points or podium finishes away from the guys who regularly compete in the series.

    I came across a photo taken by a photographer (Patrice Belle-Isle) on the first lap at Lac Beauport. He was expecting to get an action shot of one of the Senior Expert Men, and he was surprised to have the first rider be a very fast gal instead of a guy. It looked like she was enjoying being in the lead. In the official results she's listed as a DNF in Senior Expert Hommes.

    A woman in your field?-lac-beauport-mhp-june-6-2010.jpg
    Last edited by rockyuphill; 06-15-2010 at 10:23 AM.
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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockyuphill
    Marie-Hélène Prémont entered a Quebec Cup race last weekend in the Senior Expert men's race for training purposes and was in the lead at the end of the first lap and at the end of the race, but she withdrew from the race right at the end to avoid taking any points or podium finishes away from the guys who regularly compete in the series.
    Great point there, thanks. I wonder if there are no pro women entrants if they can just count my time for that... probably too difficult with timing.

    I know that plenty of the guys will beat me, but it wouldn't be cool to take away series points from someone!

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockyuphill
    Marie-Hélène Prémont entered a Quebec Cup race last weekend in the Senior Expert men's race for training purposes and was in the lead at the end of the first lap and at the end of the race, but she withdrew from the race right at the end to avoid taking any points or podium finishes away from the guys who regularly compete in the series.
    Thanks for that! I don't think Allison will be winning CAT1, but having the opportunity to have some close racing (even if mid pack) would be ideal training. Agreed on the points, so withdrawing from the race would be a good thing to consider.

    Hopefully the guys don't mind if a girl pulls a gap on a climb. I know it hurt me psychologically the first few times she put serious hurt on me on a climb...

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by miss rides a lot
    Quick question for any of the guys out there to answer, but Cat 1's maybe specifically...

    We don't get a big turnout of Pro Women at our So Cal State Series races, so I've asked to race with the Cat 1 men in my age group (allowable per USAC rules: 1K2. Women may enter any men‟s race for which they are eligible by age, category, and any performance requirements. They may also enter categorized races for men that are up to one category lower than their women's category.). Promoter said "go for it".

    I realize quite a lot of them are faster than I am, but it'd be some good solid race training for me I think (until I blow up!).

    Thoughts on having a woman show up on the line with you guys?

    My only previous experience was 3+ years ago when I only had a SS to race so they put me in Sport Men's SS for my first ever XC experience (I was a rank beginner for sure). The guys all thought it was cool, but I walked like half the course
    Your situation is a bit different then someone like Premont or Pendrel. They are professionals; in that they get paid to race and train. They have a considerable training advantage over a Cat 1 or expert field.

    You on the on the other hand work full time like most of the Cat 1 field and don't collect a wage to race. Other than work ethic and training focus you have no advantage over a Cat 1 guys field.

    The guys will have no excuse for you spanking them.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by LMN
    Your situation is a bit different then someone like Premont or Pendrel. They are professionals; in that they get paid to race and train. They have a considerable training advantage over a Cat 1 or expert field.

    You on the on the other hand work full time like most of the Cat 1 field and don't collect a wage to race. Other than work ethic and training focus you have no advantage over a Cat 1 guys field.

    The guys will have no excuse for you spanking them.
    That is all well and true, but I'd hate to mess up someone's series placing just for the competition I know those guys are fast, too so it should be solid!

  7. #7
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    If the sport can't provide you with gender specific competition

    our system has to flex. As a valued athlete who puts her wheel on the line the promoters are showing you some respect and asking the guys to flex. No, it is not a perfect solution and your consideration for the men who are in a series competing with other members of the cat is heartfelt. Yet in this you will have to flex, too, otherwise you race alone.

  8. #8
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    I never had a problem with racing the girls. Plenty of them are faster than I on the climbs, so I try like the hell to make up ground on the downhills.
    Cindy Whitehead (remember her?) and I were just about equals years ago. She was the one I'd compare times with or would work to pace or catch during races.

    Nobody should have a problem with you entering the expert class.
    And don't withdraw after you finish. You earned your spot just like
    everyone else in the field.
    Addicted to the dirt......with no hope for recovery.

  9. #9
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    In our Spring race series (it just ended with the Mellow Johnnies Classic) we had a girl compete in our category for the entire year. There wasn't much competition for her in the Woman's cat 2 19-29 category, so she raced with us (Mens cat 2 19-29). She ended up in 8th overall for the series, so so she actually did really well. Me and the other guys were fine with it. If anything, it gave some of the guys more motivation because they didn't want to lose to the female in our group. She ended up gaining some serious speed throughout the year riding with us.

    I talked to her a couple times; she said she really just wanted to be able to race against other people; when she raced in her category she was alone most of the time or passing much slower riders in other cats and had trouble keeping her motivation up.

    I think in your case it's appropriate to finish the race and not withdraw at the finish line. Get you some points, and throw a small wrench in the works with some of the other guys in the series. It's all part of racing!

    PS - Great work this year (especially at the blazing hot MJC race)!

  10. #10
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    If someone new (Man or Woman) stepped into a series and snagged points that I needed, I'd be bummed... but that's racing!

    The USAC rules allow it, so there should be no reason to DNF at the finish line in any series, USAC sanctioned or not. Race hard, and if you make the podium, feel good!

  11. #11
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    Thanks all for the input! I really appreciate the variety of opinions on this since I was kind of unsure if I should enter that category or not.

  12. #12
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    dooo eeeeet

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by miss rides a lot
    That is all well and true, but I'd hate to mess up someone's series placing just for the competition I know those guys are fast, too so it should be solid!
    Could you not race with the CAT1 men, but let the promoter assign points to the members of the actual class/category for the purpose of series points?

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnthemRider
    Could you not race with the CAT1 men, but let the promoter assign points to the members of the actual class/category for the purpose of series points?
    I think for timing purposes it may be a bit crazy to do that. We start in 2 minute waves. I have no problems with that, but really don't want to create any issues for the race director, etc. I will likely offer that up at registration and let them make the call.

  15. #15
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    If the rules say you are allowed to race in that cat then do it, but I bet the guys around you will sweat blood to avoid being beaten bya woman :-)

  16. #16
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    I've learned one thing in years of pick up sports.

    If a woman is about to compete against you and other men: prepare to be dusted.

  17. #17
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    It all depends on which AG you will be entering in. As long as you aren't 30-34...I'm cool with it. ;-)

    In all seriousness, I don't have a problem with it and if you earn points away from someone else...tough luck for them. Not to be mean, but that's racing. Since you have a Pro license, do the USAC rules allow you to race at a CAT1 level?

  18. #18
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    Well other than the obvious distractions I have no issues at all and would welcome it. I would only ask that you be courteous when guys try to pass you on the single track...you can make it back up on the climbs I'm sure.

    Keep us posted on how you do.

    Georgia Gould has been in plenty of the men's open races at New Belgium

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by rushak
    Since you have a Pro license, do the USAC rules allow you to race at a CAT1 level?
    That is actually the rule... (one category lower)

    1K2. Women may enter any men‟s race for which they are eligible by age, category, and any performance requirements. They may also enter categorized races for men that are up to one category lower than their women's category.

    Quote Originally Posted by rushak
    It all depends on which AG you will be entering in. As long as you aren't 30-34...I'm cool with it. ;-)
    Better get to the start line early

    Quote Originally Posted by fsrftc
    I would only ask that you be courteous when guys try to pass you on the single track...you can make it back up on the climbs I'm sure.
    Always! If I expect that courtesy in racing I have to give it as well. I'd say normally "unless I'm racing against you" (e.g. none of us would pull over for a direct competitor) but in this instance I think it would be okay

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by fsrftc
    I have no issues at all and would welcome it. I would only ask that you be courteous when guys try to pass you on the single track...you can make it back up on the climbs I'm sure.
    Interestingly Catharine finds that when she races guys the opposite is true. Generally the guys who climb her speed or are slightly faster on the climbs aren't as fast as her in the single track.

    At the last race one of the local elite guys said: "I got Pony Tailed twice in that race, once when she beat into the descent, the second time when she pulled away from me on the descent."

    I wouldn't be surprised if Alison finds in race conditions if she is as quick or quicker than most of the Cat 1 guys on the descents.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by LMN
    Interestingly Catharine finds that when she races guys the opposite is true. Generally the guys who climb her speed or are slightly faster on the climbs aren't as fast as her in the single track.

    At the last race one of the local elite guys said: "I got Pony Tailed twice in that race, once when she beat into the descent, the second time when she pulled away from me on the descent."

    I wouldn't be surprised if Alison finds in race conditions if she is as quick or quicker than most of the Cat 1 guys on the descents.

    Is it weird that I find it rather (looking for a word that won't make me sound like a pervert) that a girl would pass and press on the descent?
    I'm sorry, but that just does it for me!
    Addicted to the dirt......with no hope for recovery.

  22. #22
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    I'd say go for it, but if you end up at top of the podium, seriously consider bumping up to open men's class for the next race. No one likes a sandbagger regardless of sex.
    But if you aren't sandbagging, then they have no reason to complain.

  23. #23
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    Here in Oregon, I race Cat 1 and typically can gauge my fitness by how quickly I am caught by Sue Butler and Alice Pennington...having them actually start in my field would never let me know how slow I really am!

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by nwroadie
    Here in Oregon, I race Cat 1 and typically can gauge my fitness by how quickly I am caught by Sue Butler and Alice Pennington...having them actually start in my field would never let me know how slow I really am!
    Are you racing the Portland STXC series?

  25. #25
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    I might do a couple, but I've changed my focus this year to get ready for the Cream Puff in July and the High Cascades in August.

  26. #26
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    How do the distances compare for your category vs. the men's Cat 1 or Pro? I run a small race series (Men/Women Expert/Sport/Beginner categories) and the women's expert category will regularly only have one or two entrants. Though they often do a half a lap less than the expert men, they both start at the same time so the one consistent female racer (who really has no female competition in town) has a group to ride with for most of the race. Having a small field makes it pretty easy to throw them in with the guys. I suggest you talk to the promoter about giving you the same start time: categories get mixed during the race anyway, so it wouldn't be very difficult to sort out the results.

    I think it's awesome finishing behind a girl. I don't have any illusions of being abnormally fast, but I think I can hold my own. To see a woman who is faster than me is pretty damn cool.
    "An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools.” -Ernest Hemingway

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by evan, yo!
    How do the distances compare for your category vs. the men's Cat 1 or Pro? I run a small race series (Men/Women Expert/Sport/Beginner categories) and the women's expert category will regularly only have one or two entrants. Though they often do a half a lap less than the expert men, they both start at the same time so the one consistent female racer (who really has no female competition in town) has a group to ride with for most of the race. Having a small field makes it pretty easy to throw them in with the guys. I suggest you talk to the promoter about giving you the same start time: categories get mixed during the race anyway, so it wouldn't be very difficult to sort out the results.

    I think it's awesome finishing behind a girl. I don't have any illusions of being abnormally fast, but I think I can hold my own. To see a woman who is faster than me is pretty damn cool.
    The start times are staged in waves, so Pro Women would go off at like 11:01, and the Cat 1 Men 30-34 at 11:04 as opposed to a mass start. For this specific race the course is identical. If any other Pro Women show up I'm not sure they'd want to start with the men, and it probably creates a headache for the race director?

    I don't necessarily want to place against the men, but I do want the head to head competition. This category is FAST and it will be super challenging climbing and descending to stay with them.

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    Too bad you can't race up in age. I'd like some competion in the Cat 1 50-54 group at Big Bear this Sunday. My teammate and I have been trading wins this year, with no one else even close to us, but he can't make it this weekend. I think we'd be pretty closely match with our respective "handicaps", pretty fast for and old guy/pretty fast for girl.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by stillhardtailing
    Too bad you can't race up in age. I'd like some competion in the Cat 1 50-54 group at Big Bear this Sunday. My teammate and I have been trading wins this year, with no one else even close to us, but he can't make it this weekend. I think we'd be pretty closely match with our respective "handicaps", pretty fast for and old guy/pretty fast for girl.
    You can race down an age category, though. How are your times compared to 45-49? Might be a good challenge for you

  30. #30
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    Since they're only starting two minutes in front of me so I'll just see how many of them I can chase down and get points to lock up the series.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by miss rides a lot
    Better get to the start line early
    I'm going to make you do all the work and suck as much draft as possible...hehe.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by stillhardtailing
    Since they're only starting two minutes in front of me so I'll just see how many of them I can chase down and get points to lock up the series.
    There is a race in Big Bear this weekend?
    Addicted to the dirt......with no hope for recovery.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by rushak
    I'm going to make you do all the work and suck as much draft as possible...hehe.
    That's cool!! Make me work for it. But, I guarantee I'll be sitting on if I can hang on!

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by miss rides a lot
    You can race down an age category, though. How are your times compared to 45-49? Might be a good challenge for you
    Oooooh, thats a clever comeback and challenge!

    I attend races in Oregon and Washington. In the Oregon series they start the Cat 1's with the Pro/Open, in which case I'll ride Cat 1 45+, but get to race elbow to elbow with whoever I am willing to suffer deep enough to chase.

    In the Washington races they stage the starts, starting with Pro/Open and then age group waves. At these races I enter the Pro/Open field. I like to do this because I don't have to work my way through the traffic of the earlier waves, and I have as much competition as I could ever hope for . In the Pro/Open field I usually bring up the rear at the starts, too old to hit it that hard at the start, but typically work my way to mid pack or better.. sometimes the Podium. But what I like most about racing in the faster group is the experience I get racing with a faster group. They are just plain faster at everything, and they are real good at keeping the speed up with great technique. Plus they are a pretty relaxed and fun group.

    If the results and points aren't critical, racing up is a way to ride faster, by riding with faster riders. You just can't get have expectations, or be wanting results, even though you might have a killer ride and surprise yourself and others.

  35. #35
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    "Thoughts on having a woman show up on the line with you guys?"


    No thoughts, just line up & lets go.

  36. #36
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    Don't withdraw. If you're fast enough to "steal" points, then the guys behind you need to work harder. As noted above, it would be a different story if you were a pro racing in Cat1, but a Cat1 racing in Cat1 isn't an issue. Anyone who thinks otherwise is whining.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crack Monkey
    Don't withdraw. If you're fast enough to "steal" points, then the guys behind you need to work harder. As noted above, it would be a different story if you were a pro racing in Cat1, but a Cat1 racing in Cat1 isn't an issue. Anyone who thinks otherwise is whining.
    She holds a Pro license and places top 5 at national level events. She does not however get paid (though we dream of that happening) to race and she has a 40hr a week desk job.

    Her times at most courses puts her racing at about the same speed as the CAT1 AG guys. She just wants competition to race with. Regionally there are no pro women that are similar in speed.
    Last edited by whybotherme; 06-18-2010 at 08:29 AM.

  38. #38
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    Happens all the time on the road. Women Pros usually race 3's or Masters 35+.
    "Do not touch the trim"

  39. #39
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    Here is another vote for you racing with the men. It would not bother me in the least to have a fast chick line up next to me. If you don't have real competition in your field in local or regional events, you SHOULD race with the men to make sure you are getting the benefit of real racing.

    In our local series I was bothered a little by a female racer who chose to race with the sport men instead of racing with the Cat 1/Pro women. But that was because she was finishing almost dead last in the men's sport (in her age group) each race and wasn't competitive. She would have been smoked in the Pro/Cat 1 women's race as well, with a very small field, so I guess she felt better getting beat by guys. But your situation is different and you need the competition.

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gatorback
    Here is another vote for you racing with the men. It would not bother me in the least to have a fast chick line up next to me. If you don't have real competition in your field in local or regional events, you SHOULD race with the men to make sure you are getting the benefit of real racing.

    In our local series I was bothered a little by a female racer who chose to race with the sport men instead of racing with the Cat 1/Pro women. But that was because she was finishing almost dead last in the men's sport (in her age group) each race and wasn't competitive. She would have been smoked in the Pro/Cat 1 women's race as well, with a very small field, so I guess she felt better getting beat by guys. But your situation is different and you need the competition.

    she did race with the boys and got 4th. it was a good day for a race in the mountains!

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by whybotherme
    she did race with the boys and got 4th. it was a good day for a race in the mountains!
    Details damn it!
    We want details!!!
    Addicted to the dirt......with no hope for recovery.

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Broke That
    Details damn it!
    We want details!!!
    I think I talk as much about beer and food as the race, but... report

    The course I don't think suits me very well. I never feel good at the start. Struggled to hold wheels, and fell off the main pack a few minutes in, and from there we're all going through other fields, so there are plenty of people to ride with. I struggled to find my legs and my throat was just scorched right away. Felt pretty good on the singletrack and descending, so definitely had some fun

    I knew the guys in that age group would be fast, and they were. Kind of small turn out. I haven't seen final results, but I think 5 finishers. I think I was racing with a few of the 35-39 men, so maybe I just need to wait til I'm older

  43. #43
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    We ran the course on Saturday and liked the single track towards the finish area too.
    The silt on the return downhill was obnoxious though!
    Glad you did well!
    We however, spent Sunday on the other side of the lake doing all the abandoned single track we could find!
    Addicted to the dirt......with no hope for recovery.

  44. #44
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    Awesome! Were the results posted yet? I'm curious to see the time differentials.

  45. #45
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    I see women racing in cyclocross races with the men. Sometimes because they can't race at their specific times, and so instead of sandbagging the 4s, they'll race in a men's or such...

    I see nothing wrong with it.

    And, besides, if you crush all the men, and you're only doing a race or two in the series, it's not like you're affecting the points between them...

    Go for it.

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockyuphill
    Marie-Hélène Prémont entered a Quebec Cup race last weekend in the Senior Expert men's race for training purposes and was in the lead at the end of the first lap and at the end of the race, but she withdrew from the race right at the end to avoid taking any points or podium finishes away from the guys who regularly compete in the series.

    I came across a photo taken by a photographer (Patrice Belle-Isle) on the first lap at Lac Beauport. He was expecting to get an action shot of one of the Senior Expert Men, and he was surprised to have the first rider be a very fast gal instead of a guy. It looked like she was enjoying being in the lead. In the official results she's listed as a DNF in Senior Expert Hommes.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    I think we need to keep this thread near the top just so some of us can keep looking at this picture of Premont every now and then. That is about as good as I've ever seen anyone look on a mountain bike. Canada has got some good looking mountain biker chicks.

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