• 09-01-2014
    Trophy
    Basic food for 12hr rides?
    Iím getting ready for a 12hr trail race and need some nutrition advice. Last year I completed my first 12hr and this will be my second. My food intake was poor last year. I was stopping every hour or so reaching for sandwiches and anything else I could get my hands on.

    One of the faster riders told me that he was on primarily a liquid plan. Iím interested in trying this. Perpetuem was one recommendation. Iím told that this along with basic snacks should do it.

    Does anyone have general advice on food that will provide the essentials for such a demanding ride? I need to stay on the saddle as much as possible since the time is constantly ticking away.

    THANKS!
  • 09-02-2014
    ewarnerusa
    The Endurance Racing forum may provide more appropriate input, or even the nutrition forum.

    I have used Perpetuem for several years. I used it as my sole means of nutrition for several events lasting up to 8 hours. You should train with it on long rides first, it doesn't "agree" with everybody and you don't want to find this applies to you on race day. I personally found that making it any more concentrated than a 1-hr serving in a large water bottle will give me major gas and gut discomfort. So for me it was 1-hr bottles.

    It is designed to be your primary source of calories so that means basic snacks shouldn't be necessary. However, sometimes actually eating something else is just a nice change of pace for your mental state. Also, Perpetuem does not provide electrolytes so you'll need to get that from somewhere else. I would empty Endurolyte caps into my Perpetuem 1-hr bottle mixes so I didn't have to think about it.

    Perpetuem doesn't keep fresh very well and is vulnerable to spoilage after a few hours, so you can't mix up 12-hours worth the day before or even morning of and expect them to keep unless you're keeping them refrigerated or cooled by other means. So I suggest keeping the dry mix handy and pre-measured so you can just add it to water bottles as needed and on demand. This works very well in a lap-race format.

    I am now trying Tailwind Sports drink for a change of pace. I try and support Hammer Nutrition as much as possible because they are a local company here in Montana and sponsor many events. However, I sort of blame spoiled Perpentuem for sinking my 100 mile race effort this year so I want to try something different. I also feel like it is such a balancing act for me to avoid the gut discomfort but still provide enough calories that I'm just over it. Tailwind includes electrolytes and is really marketed as the only nutrition you need for long distance events.
  • 09-02-2014
    Trophy
    I've been seriously looking at trying Tailwind. How are you doing so far on the Tailwind? Have you put it to a 100 mile test yet? Thanks much for the reply.
  • 09-02-2014
    ewarnerusa
    I like the taste, but I haven't done any multi hour rides with it and don't really have any plans for any for the rest of the season. It is much sweeter than Perpetuem. Orange is ok, the berry is my favorite. Lemon is a bit sweet and tastes like strong Gatorade. The caffeine one tastes similar to the berry.

    I've only tried a hundred miler once, that was this summer.
  • 09-02-2014
    DLd
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Trophy View Post
    I've been seriously looking at trying Tailwind. How are you doing so far on the Tailwind? Have you put it to a 100 mile test yet? Thanks much for the reply.

    Yes. Go with the Tailwind. I used it in a 6 hour and took 4th. Then I used it in a 24 and took 9th solo, in a pretty stacked field. A lot of the other riders on different products said they stopped eating around the 7-10th lap, because they just couldn't stand to drink anymore of the products they were using. On the Tailwind though, I had no issues. I alternated between flavors every other lab. I did one lap caffienated, next lap not, and I had no issues staying awake either. I was using about 250 calories worth per bottle for 1:15 laps. Probably could've tried for closer to 280.

    Good product though. I totally recommend it.
  • 09-03-2014
    Trophy
    Thanks guys. I'll probably get the sample challenge kit. Sounds like you both have had a good experience with it.

    Dld, Did you eat any solid food with the TW on those long hauls? Just wondering if it's able to supply enough calories for 12hrs without extra food? Thanks again.
  • 09-03-2014
    DLd
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Trophy View Post
    Thanks guys. I'll probably get the sample challenge kit. Sounds like you both have had a good experience with it.

    Dld, Did you eat any solid food with the TW on those long hauls? Just wondering if it's able to supply enough calories for 12hrs without extra food? Thanks again.

    Y'know, I grabbed two Nutter Butter cookies while I was adding some base layers on a later lap, and looking back I wished I hadn't. It's funny how we all have this idea that somehow solid food will provide more nourishment or something. As long as the liquid has everything you need, then the only difference between solid food and liquid is that your body has to turn the solid food into a liquid before you can digest it, which means it takes longer for the calories to get to your muscles, and increases your chances of bonking. If you need more calories, you just add some more powder. The longer the race, the stronger I would tend to go because you WILL end up at a deficit. The body can't absorb enough to keep up. See what works for you, but I think I was hitting 3 scoops (300 calories) to a bottle. I also took swigs of coconut water between laps, especially when it was hotter out. I wasn't getting enough water per lap with just one bottle per 1.25 hour in the afternoon sun. It was Tucson in February, but I swear it felt like it was 90 degrees that day. It was unseasonably warm, freaking awesome nighttime temps though :)
  • 09-05-2014
    Trophy
    Dude, thatís awesome information! Thanks for sharing that. I think Iím going to have to give it a try now. I have two races coming up and I seriously need to get a better nutrition plan together.

    A riding pal and I were comparing the ingredients of Tailwind and a jug Hammer Heed that we have here. Itís almost the exact same. I really donít understand what makes the Tailwind work for such ultra endurance rides when Heed doesnít even attempt to market that point. Makes me wonder if a product like Heed would actually work just as well.

    Regardless, It sounds like a good product and Iím really looking forward to giving it a try. Thanks again.
  • 09-05-2014
    albertdc
    Also take a look at CarboRocket 333 Half-evil energy drink. There is a regular CarboRocket too, but you want the "half-evil" version.
    (carborocket)
    I recently completed a brutal 75 miles of singletrack track race with 12,000 feet vertical climbing with the stuff (7hrs 44 min racing for me, but plenty of people in the 9-11 hr timespan). In the past, if I've gone hard for more than an hour or two, I'd have major GI upset. CarboRocket tastes good and is very easy on my stomach. There are both caffeinated and non-caffeinated flavors - I like the lemonade (caffeine) and orange (no caffeine) flavors, but my brother prefers the raspberry (caffeine) and grape (no caffeine) - depends on whether you like cirtus or sweet. The sell a variety sample pack to test out all the flavors.
    I mixed mine at 3 scoops per water bottle = 333 cal per water bottle, or about 1000 calories in a 100 oz camelback bladder. Went through 3 bladders in the race. I also used about 1 PowerBar Gel per 30-45 minutes throughout the race. I did not feel energy or calorie deficient at the end and my gut still felt good.

    As always - try it out BEFORE you race with it!
  • 09-05-2014
    DLd
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Trophy View Post
    Dude, thatís awesome information! Thanks for sharing that. I think Iím going to have to give it a try now. I have two races coming up and I seriously need to get a better nutrition plan together.

    A riding pal and I were comparing the ingredients of Tailwind and a jug Hammer Heed that we have here. Itís almost the exact same. I really donít understand what makes the Tailwind work for such ultra endurance rides when Heed doesnít even attempt to market that point. Makes me wonder if a product like Heed would actually work just as well.

    Regardless, It sounds like a good product and Iím really looking forward to giving it a try. Thanks again.

    The ingredients between Heed and Tailwind really aren't even close. Heed uses Maltodextrin instead of the simpler and easier to digest sucrose and dextrose of Tailwind, and on top of that, even though it's a drink consisting mainly of sugar, Heed adds artificial sweeteners, xylitol and stevia, which is a reason you don't see people using it for really long rides. The sweetness of the sugar plus the artificial sweeteners just becomes overbearing. Not to mention that Tailwind has over twice the potassium and almost 7.5 times the sodium. Yeah, I don't think they're even in the same league.
  • 09-05-2014
    Trophy
    Hmm, Okay... We were thinking they were pretty close percentage wise. Thanks for clearing that up for me.
  • 09-05-2014
    Lahrs
    Basic food for 12hr rides?
    I agree with everything DLd said about TW. Did the Canmore 24hr this year using it as my only fuel source. I did have to eat some jelly beans but that was to deal with low blood sugar due to screwing up my insulin, type 1 diabetic.

    Podium finish.

    After the event I had no gestational issues going back onto real food.

    Good luck at your race, have fun!
  • 09-06-2014
    Trophy
    Your the man! That's amazing, 24hrs constant riding, solo run on TW and a jelly bean?
  • 09-06-2014
    DLd
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Trophy View Post
    Hmm, Okay... We were thinking they were pretty close percentage wise. Thanks for clearing that up for me.

    btw, didn't mean to come across as gruff, was just in a hurry at work and trying to be brief.
  • 09-07-2014
    Trophy
    Not gruff at all. I really appreciate all the advice. I'm absolutely horrible when it comes to getting my nutrition correct. Sorry I didn't respond sooner, traveling this week.
  • 09-09-2014
    guyc
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by DLd View Post
    I also took swigs of coconut water between laps, especially when it was hotter out. I wasn't getting enough water per lap with just one bottle per 1.25 hour in the afternoon sun.

    This is what I've found to be the main difficulty with liquid-only fuel - it's great for providing sustained energy that can be digested easily, but really hard to hydrate properly if the temperature isn't consistent, for example if the long ride has a cold morning start and a hot midday. If you're not very well prepared you end up drinking way too much in the first few hours (bad news - read Waterlogged) and then not drinking enough later on in the day when it's hot (also bad news).
  • 09-10-2014
    RojoRacing53
    I keep this simple

    anything 12hrs or shorter I drink one bottle(20-24oz) of accelerade per hour or lap. I break open A succeed S-cap or 2(if its hot) and drop them strait into the mix to save myself the time of reaching for pills every hour. I also keep a few of those mini coca cola's in the ice chest to calm any stomach distress and curve any depression(any negative thought of any kind). that's it, I don't eat so much as a single cracker or gu packet. All my bottles are mixed the night before so my total stop time during a race is under a couple mins. In case your wondering how well my method works, I've won or been on the podium(all solo's overall) in every 8_24 hr race I've ever entered.

    Just because my plan works for me doesn't mean it's the right one for you but now you know it's out there. If you haven't tried a coke during a race then you don't know what your missing, there's a reason it's at every aid station at every ultramarathon race.

    There's a couple small tweaks is use during super hot or cold days but I won't bother posting about them unless your really interested.
  • 09-11-2014
    alphajaguars
    No idea about the OP, but I am interested. :)