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  1. #1
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    2020 XC Race Tires

    Time for a new thread for the new year....

    Iím currently running a 29x2.6 Rekon up front and a 29x2.6 Ikon out back and will most likely keep them on until Spring. Iíll then move to a 2.35 Ikon up front an either an Aspen or Rekon Race in the rear. Iím hoping to see that 2.35/2.4 Aspen this year.
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  2. #2
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    The newest versions of the Fast Trak Control 29x2.3 front and Renegade Control 29x2.3 rear. They provide decent volume, grip, and rolling resistance for XC racing. They are also more durable/reliable than the S-Works versions of those tires.

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    My plan is Rekon 2.25 Front, Aspen 2.25 Rear. I have an extra Aspen and Ikon 2.2 handy if I want to you play setup.


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    Coming from the Pirelli Scorpion Mixes Lite 2.2 f/r for the marathons in Belgium and Spain. 2020 I'm going for the Maxxis Rekon Race 2.35.

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    Will probably stick with the 2.25 Rekon front and 2.25 Aspen rear. Seemed to suit me well last year.

    Though I might put on an Aspen up front for faster courses, the 2.25 Rekon has much better braking and cornering traction, and there doesn't seem to be too much of a rolling resistance penalty. Im actually surprised I don't see it mentioned more often as a front tire since it's pretty versatile and reasonably light.

  6. #6
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    We have an annual early-season XC race series that is almost always muddy. For that, I'm planning to use a Michelin Force AM front (great grippy rubber and burly shoulder knobs, but rolls fast) and a Barzo 2.25 rear.

    Later in the year, will likely move to a Barzo 2.35 front/Rekon Race rear.

    I'm also curious to try the new Pepi's Tire Noodle pink inserts. Weight looks great, shape is interesting...

  7. #7
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    Schwalbe Racing Ralph front, Thunder Burt rear ?

    Attached Pictures from Snowshoe World Cup, PFP and Cannondale HA are running Racing Ralphs Front and Thunder Burt Rear.

    Anyone Tried the Racing Ralph on the Front ?

    Advantages over Racing Ray or Rocket Ron ?
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 2020 XC Race Tires-pfp1.jpg  

    2020 XC Race Tires-ha2.jpg  

    2020 XC Race Tires-ha1.jpg  

    2020 XC Race Tires-pfp2.jpg  


  8. #8
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    I've got Forekasters in 29x2.2 dual compound, non-exo on my hardtail for wet races, they're in the low 600g range.
    If it's not going to be super wet I'll bring the fs bike with Rocket Ron 29x2.25s speed/addix/snakeskin, close to 600g.
    My kid has a good hardtail, with my old Barzo's, which are a bit heavy in the mid 700 range, but a tough and reliable do it all tire, imo.
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  9. #9
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    Vittoria Peyote Graphene 2.0 (tanwall of course!) 29x2.25 f/r on 25mm internal width rims, for Southern California.
    Never underestimate an old man with a mountain bike.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spin Cycle View Post
    Attached Pictures from Snowshoe World Cup, PFP and Cannondale HA are running Racing Ralphs Front and Thunder Burt Rear.

    Anyone Tried the Racing Ralph on the Front ?

    Advantages over Racing Ray or Rocket Ron ?
    Interesting. For 2019 all of my XC races were using Racing Ray (2.25) front and Racing Ralph (2.25) rear. I thought they designed the Racing Ray for front with Racing Ralph rear. I believe a Racing Ralph (front) and Thunder Burt (rear) would be a faster rolling setup on hard pack.

    In 2018 I raced Thunder Burt (front) and Thunder Burt (back) and it wasn't a good setup for me. (lost the front end a few times)

    For 2020, I am trying Racing Ray 2.10 (front) and Racing Ralph 2.10 (rear). I bought a different bike and it had 2.10 on them. I might end up changing the setup to 2.25 size.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spin Cycle View Post

    Advantages over Racing Ray or Rocket Ron ?
    There are no advantages to a Ralph in the front. Both Ron and Ray will provide more grip in ALL conditions.

    Rons in liteskin are lighter too.

    I usually run Ray front/ Ron rear.

    For races I use Conti Race King/ Speed King unless its super dry.
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  12. #12
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    Any experience here with Mitas tires? Iíd never heard of them until offered a deal yesterday.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MXIV424 View Post
    Any experience here with Mitas tires? Iíd never heard of them until offered a deal yesterday.
    People have posted great results on their tires but their marketing is soo poor that it's hard to tell which tire should be used for what conditions. They used to be rubena tires.

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    I like to tinker with tires a lot and my best finishes came on ardent rear and dhr2 front including multiple top 5 finishes in age group. This year I'm going to ride morsa rear and xr5 front. It should be a faster setup with more rear traction and just as much front traction. The Morsa was recorded by the germans as having the same rolling resistance as an ardent race and the xr5 is supposed to be a faster and lighter dhr2, even faster than the xr4. I ride 27.5.

  15. #15
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    I ran Ikons last year for the first time and was surprised how much I liked them for being such a simple tire. But that bike is gone, and I might try racing my old trail bike which is a 27.5. Shopping for tires now. Toss up between Ikons again, or a Ralph/Ray/Ron combo. Used in dry SoCal conditions.

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    Really impressed by the XR3s that came on my Top Fuel, probably comparable to an Ikon but slightly cheaper at retail prices.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by MillerC View Post
    People have posted great results on their tires but their marketing is soo poor that it's hard to tell which tire should be used for what conditions. They used to be rubena tires.
    I found this document that has pretty good info: https://www.mitas-cycling.com/~/medi..._web_final.pdf

    I wish they had ultralight versions like liteskin or racesport in the lineup.

  18. #18
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    Vittoria Barzo 2.35Ē XC/Trail front
    Vittoria Mezcal 2.35Ē XC/Trail rear

    Actually measures to a true 2.35" on a 25mm IRD wheel.

    Made it 160 miles before my first rock cut on the Mezcal on Arkansas trails. Really like the feel of these tires so far.


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    Last edited by tgoods; 01-10-2020 at 01:58 PM.

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    2.6f/2.3r XR2s for single-track/technical-heavy ultra races, and 2.1 Thunderburts for the rest.

  20. #20
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    I've been rocking 2.35 XR's front and back and actually pretty impressed with them. My rear tire has slipped a few times but that's due to shitty technique. I really want to try those XR3's. I think those are gonna be the ticket.

  21. #21
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    2.25 Aspen front and rear.

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    2.35 Ardent Race Front/2.25 Aspen rear. Southern CA. Been on this combo the last two seasons and its been working extremely well for me, no punctures, fairly light weight and rolls fast. I've found its plenty of tire for trail rides on the weekends as well.


    (Also would be helpful if everyone said where they were riding/what conditions, without that tire choice has no meaning)

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    Decided to try out Racing Ralph/Ray for this year in SoCal. 2.25 in skinwalls on 29mm wide rims.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by gus6464 View Post
    Decided to try out Racing Ralph/Ray for this year in SoCal. 2.25 in skinwalls on 29mm wide rims.
    I have a set of those skinwalls for sale if anyone wants. 13 miles. I dont like the snakeskin.
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  25. #25
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    @zerort - interested in your tires. Shoot me a PM if you still have them.

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    Has anyone tried the Kenda Booster tires? https://bicycle.kendatire.com/en-eu/...athon/booster/

    I have been running Maxxis Ikons for the last 3-4 years and have been happy with how long they last but would like to have a bit more grip when cornering, and those Kendas seem to get good reviews in the magazines at least. I am looking at buying the 29x2.2 SCT version.

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    That looks a lot like Rekon Race. Looks good

  28. #28
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    My big revelation for 2020 is that rubber compounds matter (shocker!), maybe more so than tread, when riding in wet conditions. And after years of using them, I donít think Maxxis XC rubber is very good in the wet. After spending a bunch of time on Forekasters and Rekons here in the often-wet PNW, I tried some Barzos and Michelin Force AMs. These just feel much, much better over wet roots and rocks both climbing and descending.

    Vittoria and Michelin also wear very differently; the Maxxis tires seem to lose chunks and end up with undercut shoulder knobs, while the Vittoria and Michelin tires just get evenly worn down. YMMV obviously, and I love the Assegai on my enduro bike, but for wet riding Iím off Maxxis for 2020.

  29. #29
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    Gonna run Rekon 2.25 front, Rekon Race 2.25 rear. Haven't raced in a few years, racing age is finally 60+, got tired of getting spanked by 50-55 yr-olds. This combo seems pretty fast with a surprising amount of grip, at least till it gets wet. But I don't do wet races too often, around here wet is just sticky peanut butter.
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  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by BmanInTheD View Post
    Gonna run Rekon 2.25 front, Rekon Race 2.25 rear. Haven't raced in a few years, racing age is finally 60+, got tired of getting spanked by 50-55 yr-olds. This combo seems pretty fast with a surprising amount of grip, at least till it gets wet. But I don't do wet races too often, around here wet is just sticky peanut butter.
    Iím pretty impressed by both of them so far.

    That said, I wish theyíd slap the Rekon tread on a 2.35 Ikon casing. I know they make the 2.4 WT but thatís a different beast.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Le Duke View Post
    Iím pretty impressed by both of them so far.

    That said, I wish theyíd slap the Rekon tread on a 2.35 Ikon casing. I know they make the 2.4 WT but thatís a different beast.


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    Yeah, the 2.4 is a nice "trail" tire. But is the Rekon Race 2.35 not on a 2.35 Ikon casing?
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    Quote Originally Posted by BmanInTheD View Post
    Yeah, the 2.4 is a nice "trail" tire. But is the Rekon Race 2.35 not on a 2.35 Ikon casing?
    It is. Iíd just like a Rekon/Rekon Race 2.35 combination. High volume, fast rolling. Just enough traction.


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  33. #33
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    The Rekon 2.6 actually pairs nicely with the RR 2.35. The former is a bit undersized, the latter oversized, so on my rims it was about a 2.5/2.4. Rekon 2.6 EXO is actually lighter than the 2.4 EXO, believe mine was ~730g while 2.4 was 800. I ran the 2.6 for a bunch of dry condition rides and even a few races and it worked well.

  34. #34
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    Apr through May- 2.35 Forecaster (front) - 2.25 Rekon (rear)
    June through Sept - 2.35 Ardent Race (front) - 2.25 Aspen (rear)

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    Currently running 2.35 Ardent Race front and 2.25 Aspen Rear in loose over hard Orange County. Anyone have any insight into how the Vittoria Mezcal F/B would compare to my current set up?

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    Quote Originally Posted by AFCFORME View Post
    Currently running 2.35 Ardent Race front and 2.25 Aspen Rear in loose over hard Orange County. Anyone have any insight into how the Vittoria Mezcal F/B would compare to my current set up?
    The morsa is like the ardent race. Less transition, more side knob, and the same rolling resistance.

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    Does anyone know where to find a Kenda booster pro 27.5x2.4? I want to try one on the back of my bike.

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    Except Morsa is wayyy heavier

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    Quote Originally Posted by Unbrockenchain View Post
    Except Morsa is wayyy heavier
    mezcal is heavier than aspen by a bunch too.

  40. #40
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    Give the Peyotes a try...now my fave for So Cal...after trying literally everything. Aspens second behind them.
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    I raced the Rocket Rons yesterday, round rock/gravel trail start, pavement before wet singletrack with some hardpack and some mud, - I really liked them but flatted on the last lap and had to walk in. My bad for not adding enough sealant, and just guessing about how much to add last week without actually looking to see that there was enough sloshing around in there. I had a very similar puncture last year on this same course with Mezcals, but I had enough sealant to get me to the finish last year.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimPacNW View Post
    I raced the Rocket Rons yesterday, round rock/gravel trail start, pavement before wet singletrack with some hardpack and some mud, - I really liked them but flatted on the last lap and had to walk in. My bad for not adding enough sealant, and just guessing about how much to add last week without actually looking to see that there was enough sloshing around in there. I had a very similar puncture last year on this same course with Mezcals, but I had enough sealant to get me to the finish last year.
    I always found Rocket Rons to be prone to punctures...more so than similar tires.

  43. #43
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    I picked up some Barzo's for $15 each. I just wanted some cheap tires for a bike test, with 650B wheels I didn't want to spend a bunch if I was only going to use them once. Really liked them in the SoCal desert conditions. Very predictable.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MattMay View Post
    Give the Peyotes a try...now my fave for So Cal...after trying literally everything. Aspens second behind them.
    I raced on the 2.35 Peyotes last year, after racing on the 2.35 Mezcals the year before, and I liked the performance of the Peyotes better on both the front and the rear of my Scalpel. I'll be running a new set of Peyotes this year too, unless Maxxis introduces a larger Aspen this year, and I might try them just for fun.

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by MattMay View Post
    Vittoria Peyote Graphene 2.0 (tanwall of course!) 29x2.25 f/r on 25mm internal width rims, for Southern California.
    +1 on the Front and Terreno rear XC race casing (Tan) in the Midwest

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by MillerC View Post
    mezcal is heavier than aspen by a bunch too.
    Aspen 2.25 658 grams
    Mezcal XC Race Casing (Tan) 671 grams the ones I have owned & actually weighed

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spin Cycle View Post
    Aspen 2.25 658 grams
    Mezcal XC Race Casing (Tan) 671 grams the ones I have owned & actually weighed
    I wouldn't trust anything but tnt and it weighs in at 730 grams in 29x2.25.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MillerC View Post
    I wouldn't trust anything but tnt and it weighs in at 730 grams in 29x2.25.
    Oof, that not light.

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    hi, i have a 29er HT, having maxxis ikon 2.35 both rear and front, i am looking for a grippier all around front tire.
    I have seen the new Vittoria Barzo 2.35, new Continental Crossking 2.3 and Maxxis Ardent race 2.35.
    What to you think from your experience ?
    Thanks

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by sotak1 View Post
    hi, i have a 29er HT, having maxxis ikon 2.35 both rear and front, i am looking for a grippier all around front tire.
    I have seen the new Vittoria Barzo 2.35, new Continental Crossking 2.3 and Maxxis Ardent race 2.35.
    What to you think from your experience ?
    Thanks
    Where do you live/whats your terrain like?

    I've been very happy with the Ardent Race as a front (paired with an Aspen rear) in dry, loose over hard, rocky, rutted Southern CA. I use it for XC racing a trail riding and it performs really well. Also havent had a flat on either tire in over 2 years (I just jinxed myself)

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    mostly in dry conditions, all around tire
    barzo and crossking have very similar tread
    maybe do you know which of these 3 tires have the tallest knobs ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by sotak1 View Post
    mostly in dry conditions, all around tire
    barzo and crossking have very similar tread
    maybe do you know which of these 3 tires have the tallest knobs ?
    Center knobs the Barzo and Ardent race both have 2.9mm knob heights comparred to the x-king's 2.5mm (though it seems that sample was taken from a 2015 version so likely has changed). And side knobs both the barzo and x-king have 4mm .vs 4.2mm for the Ardent Race. All of this info came from bicyclerollingresistance.com btw.

  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by sotak1 View Post
    mostly in dry conditions, all around tire
    barzo and crossking have very similar tread
    maybe do you know which of these 3 tires have the tallest knobs ?
    I think if you gave me a blind test I'm not sure I could tell a difference between an Ikon and Ardent Race. I own both these tires in 2.35.

    I've never tried the Barzo and I like the crossking. Opinions on the crossking are love it or hate it. I've used the 2.1 and 2.35 versions. Buy the larger size if you decide on this tire.

    If you want a really grippy front tire I would recommend the regular ardent. It's not the fastest tire that has been posted, but the grip is there when you make a mistake or come in too fast into a corner. Having a grippier front tire has given me confidence and saved me more than once. Ignore knob height. Tall knobs can even flex.

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    I wouldn't rule out the morsa. It has way more grip than an ardent and rolls faster. Sure it weighs a little more but your talking about a pretty chunky set of tires if a 2.35 ikon isn't cutting it up front.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MillerC View Post
    I wouldn't rule out the morsa. It has way more grip than an ardent and rolls faster. Sure it weighs a little more but your talking about a pretty chunky set of tires if a 2.35 ikon isn't cutting it up front.
    Yeah but compared to a 2.35, say, Ardent race its more than 3/4ths of a pound heavier. thats a lot.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sotak1 View Post
    hi, i have a 29er HT, having maxxis ikon 2.35 both rear and front, i am looking for a grippier all around front tire.
    I have seen the new Vittoria Barzo 2.35, new Continental Crossking 2.3 and Maxxis Ardent race 2.35.
    What to you think from your experience ?
    Thanks
    I have ridden a lot with the Cross King 2.3. Itís actually a 2.25 tire on a 22mm rim. I like it and think itís a great all-a-rounder with a tough side wall.

    Currently running the Barzo 2.35 which is a true 2.35 tire on a 25mm rim. 300 miles so far. It seems puncture resistant but I have noticed more bottom-out tendency than the Conti which I contribute to a suppler side wall. So I have to run higher pressure than the Conti. Also the Vittorias are WAY easier to mount than conti and hold air better. The feel of the Barzo has been equal or better than the Conti cross king.

    I have had bad luck with Maxxis EXO with multiple nasty side wall cuts that I have not experienced yet with Conti or Vittoria.


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  57. #57
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    Sometimes I feel like flats are just a luck of the draw. I used Ikon 2.35 EXO front and rear at the Trans-Sylvania Epic 5 day race both in 2016 and 2019. To say itís a rocky, technical stage race is an understatement. In 2016 I had zero flats...in 2019 I had 9...yep 9. Flats happen. Iím going back again this year. The question is and always will be, what tires should I use?
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    barzo, cross king and racing ray have similar center tread pattern
    what do you think about center knobs that are not in the same horizontal line ?
    are these tires predictable when cornering/braking ?

  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by sotak1 View Post
    barzo, cross king and racing ray have similar center tread pattern
    what do you think about center knobs that are not in the same horizontal line ?
    are these tires predictable when cornering/braking ?
    I think the asymmetrical nature of this tread works great. It creates something approaching a continuous line of rubber down the center of the tire, which rolls fast. When cornering obviously only one half of the tread matters, so no downside to asymmetrical tread.

    Iíve tried both Barzos and Racing Ralph/Ray. Barzos are much, much more confidence-inspiring. They roll very quick, but really do have cornering bite particularly in the wet. Did my first race on them yesterday and they were excellent, really predictable and just excellent braking, cornering and climbing grip. It was wet, and the Barzos were point-and-shoot, never had to think about them. Running 2.35/2.25 f/r and itís a great combo.

    The Schwalbe tires are fast and light, but I found grip on the limit to be lacking. Their knobs are pretty small and not very well supported, so they felt more squirmy and prone to deflecting and losing grip, particularly in the wet. Iím also not so sure the rounded knob shapes on the Schwalbes are a good idea; seems like you want edges that bite, and I donít know of any other tire that purposely uses rounded shapes like that. Itís like theyíre pre-worn.

  60. #60
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    Liking the Barzo up front. Seems to corner and brake well. But I'm not impressed with the climbing compared to the Ikon.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DrewBird View Post
    Did my first race on them yesterday and they were excellent, really predictable and just excellent braking, cornering and climbing grip. It was wet, and the Barzos were point-and-shoot, never had to think about them. Running 2.35/2.25 f/r
    I think we raced in the same place yesterday, 'soggy eagle?' My son was on Barzos, I liked my Rocket Rons 2.25s a lot, but I can see the value of a wider front tire in the 2nd mud hole where the my front sunk in and I went over. The guy who got 13th overall was on Thunder Burts, which would not have been my choice!, but he finished just ahead of me, so I guess they have good grip on those rocks and roots. At the start line I saw his tires and figured they would be a disadvantage, - go figure!
    skidding is the signature of the novice; learn how to use your brakes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jimPacNW View Post
    I think we raced in the same place yesterday, 'soggy eagle?' My son was on Barzos, I liked my Rocket Rons 2.25s a lot, but I can see the value of a wider front tire in the 2nd mud hole where the my front sunk in and I went over. The guy who got 13th overall was on Thunder Burts, which would not have been my choice!, but he finished just ahead of me, so I guess they have good grip on those rocks and roots. At the start line I saw his tires and figured they would be a disadvantage, - go figure!
    Indeed, though that was the sunniest day we've had in the last few weeks so I'll take it. Looks like we ended up within a minute of each other on time; I was 9th in the Open cat. Shoulda raced age group, I would've won 35-49!

    But to the matter at hand: Barzos were perfect yesterday. Definitely will be my tire of choice for the rest of the series.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DrewBird View Post
    But to the matter at hand: Barzos were perfect yesterday. Definitely will be my tire of choice for the rest of the series.
    - nice job!, and I'm very happy if I'm at all close to the younger guys (but I think they did update results to correct for start gap timing errors, so both of us got moved back from the times/positions posted on the trailer, still you were super close to age group winner).
    Yes, I agree that the Barzo is a great do it all, I think the Rocket Ron is pretty similar, but lighter along with a higher risk of failure. It looks like I'm going to need that weight advantage this season!
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimPacNW View Post
    - nice job!, and I'm very happy if I'm at all close to the younger guys (but I think they did update results to correct for start gap timing errors, so both of us got moved back from the times/positions posted on the trailer, still you were super close to age group winner).
    Yes, I agree that the Barzo is a great do it all, I think the Rocket Ron is pretty similar, but lighter along with a higher risk of failure. It looks like I'm going to need that weight advantage this season!
    +1 on your comments that the Barzo and Rocket Ron are similar in grip.

    Used both early last season and 2 x onback to back runs of my favorite loops.

    Used on the front on two separate rims 26mm or 25 mm internal, Rocket Ron is slightly bigger 57.5 vs 56mm for the Barzo ( 2.25 Race Casing tanwall) .

    Imo The rocket ron rolls a little better and is better on hard pack , both are equal in loose over hard pack and the Barzo is better is looser condtions.

    I'm in the Midwest not to rocky where I ride and never have issues with Snake Skin Schwalbe

    2.25 RoRO 624 grams 2.25 Barzo 684 gram xc race case, my Friend put 2.35 and 2.25 trail casings on and they both weighed 735 grams

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    Quote Originally Posted by tgoods View Post
    I have ridden a lot with the Cross King 2.3. Itís actually a 2.25 tire on a 22mm rim. I like it and think itís a great all-a-rounder with a tough side wall.

    Currently running the Barzo 2.35 which is a true 2.35 tire on a 25mm rim. 300 miles so far. It seems puncture resistant but I have noticed more bottom-out tendency than the Conti which I contribute to a suppler side wall. So I have to run higher pressure than the Conti. Also the Vittorias are WAY easier to mount than conti and hold air better. The feel of the Barzo has been equal or better than the Conti cross king.

    I have had bad luck with Maxxis EXO with multiple nasty side wall cuts that I have not experienced yet with Conti or Vittoria.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Barzo TNT/G+ 2.35's on the Top Fuel right now with 700 miles on the front and 600 miles on the rear of NW Arkansas sharp rocks. Zero flats or ripped knobs, multiple KOMs (ok lil Sugar but still), rear definitely looking worse for wear but still rolling. I'm probably going to try the XC Trail Mezcal out back next, hoping the tighter knob spacing protects the casing a little better. Dozens of close calls upon visual inspection and I can see thread but it's still rolling.

    Regarding pressure/casing of the reinforced Vittorias, running some lightweight inserts helps that bottom out issue. At 180# kitted up i'm at 15# front and 17# rear on 23mm ID rim, feels good. Casing on the Mezcal blows up bigger so I'm interested to see how they do with inserts out back.

    Got a set of Mezcal/Terrenos in XC Race skinwall just waiting for a short track race to pop up on the calendar...
    -DC, just some XC Bum from FL in NW Arkansas

  66. #66
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    Racing Tires

    Racing/training in Flagstaff, AZ. Unfortunately, our series starts in Jan. in the Phoenix area, yet I am at 7,000ft dealing with snow, ice, cold, etc. Races in the desert, loose over hard/kitty litter/high speed/slower speed chunk abrasive rock. Had two races already and preparing for one this weekend in Lake Havasu on a fast, flowy, loose over hard track. Raced so far on a 2.1 Mezcal TNT rear 21#, Ikon 2.2 EXO front, 19# at about 155 #. Age group Cat 1 40-49. Tires worked very well for first two races. Switching out to a 2.25 Barzo on the front, non-TNT for this race, as it has much more fast flowy turning (Was intrigued by the 2.25 Peyote) Ran the Mezcal 2.1 TNT/Barzo 2.25 much of last year, loved it. Tough tires and the Mezcal rolls very fast and I actually like the lower volume. Barzo corners very well, and also rolls quite fast. Have trained on the 2.25 Mezcal in the rear, lots of volume, but heavy, and use 2.35 Barzo/Forekaster as well in training. Last year I switched it up a bit and used Aspen EXO 2.25 rear/2.35 Rekon EXO up front for a few races too. Hard to believe I used the Kenda Karma 2.0's, 26ers at sub 500g 15 years ago in similar conditions! A bit envious of racing in some moisture/loam, this dry kitty litter stuff can be quite un-nerving!

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    Quote Originally Posted by pinkpowa View Post
    .

    Regarding pressure/casing of the reinforced Vittorias, running some lightweight inserts helps that bottom out issue. At 180# kitted up i'm at 15# front and 17# rear on 23mm ID rim, feels good. ...
    What inserts?


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  68. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by tgoods View Post
    What inserts?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    I've been running Tubolights in my Barzos. They seem pretty good and are quite light, though they're just a circular noodle-type thing.

    I'd be really curious about the new pink-flavored Pepi's inserts. They appear to actually have a cross-section to them that makes sense, with a bit that projects into the rim bed and a groove under the tread to create a larger air pocket. Anybody tried 'em?

    https://www.bike-discount.de/en/buy/...ert-set-954895

  69. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrewBird View Post
    I've been running Tubolights in my Barzos. They seem pretty good and are quite light, though they're just a circular noodle-type thing.

    I'd be really curious about the new pink-flavored Pepi's inserts. They appear to actually have a cross-section to them that makes sense, with a bit that projects into the rim bed and a groove under the tread to create a larger air pocket. Anybody tried 'em?

    https://www.bike-discount.de/en/buy/...ert-set-954895
    Those look interesting. Just wondering if airing them up would be more difficult due to they way theyíre designed to fit down into the rim. Maybe thereís a hole for the valve? Doesnít look like it though.

  70. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by tgoods View Post
    What inserts?
    Pepe's Tire Noodles, Raceline, Small. 55g actual weight each, drop about 3-5# from your pressures without inserts with same overall feel. I'm a weight weenie but these are worth it to me for XCO/XCM racing, more grip.
    -DC, just some XC Bum from FL in NW Arkansas

  71. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrewBird View Post
    I've been running Tubolights in my Barzos. They seem pretty good and are quite light, though they're just a circular noodle-type thing.

    I'd be really curious about the new pink-flavored Pepi's inserts. They appear to actually have a cross-section to them that makes sense, with a bit that projects into the rim bed and a groove under the tread to create a larger air pocket. Anybody tried 'em?

    https://www.bike-discount.de/en/buy/...ert-set-954895
    I currently run Tubolights and have ran Pepi's in the past. Both are very good but the Tubolight had a bit of a lead due to lighter weight and being considerably more dense.
    Curious where the new pink Pepi's fit in cause if they provide advantages, I'll swap over promptly.
    I know this, I'll not ever be running without inserts with current tire tech.

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  72. #72
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    They are heavy but I use Vittoria Airliners for super technical endurance races. The feel of the lower pressure they allow and the extra protection they provide on my hardtail are worth it to me.
    CADRE RACING

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    Has anyone had issues with the inserts soaking up the sealant fluid?

    I was using some foam tubes from an industrial store that were drinking up all the fluid, especially after a snakebite on the side.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jps View Post
    Racing/training in Flagstaff, AZ. Unfortunately, our series starts in Jan. in the Phoenix area, yet I am at 7,000ft dealing with snow, ice, cold, etc. Races in the desert, loose over hard/kitty litter/high speed/slower speed chunk abrasive rock. Had two races already and preparing for one this weekend in Lake Havasu on a fast, flowy, loose over hard track. Raced so far on a 2.1 Mezcal TNT rear 21#, Ikon 2.2 EXO front, 19# at about 155 #. Age group Cat 1 40-49. Tires worked very well for first two races. Switching out to a 2.25 Barzo on the front, non-TNT for this race, as it has much more fast flowy turning (Was intrigued by the 2.25 Peyote) Ran the Mezcal 2.1 TNT/Barzo 2.25 much of last year, loved it. Tough tires and the Mezcal rolls very fast and I actually like the lower volume. Barzo corners very well, and also rolls quite fast. Have trained on the 2.25 Mezcal in the rear, lots of volume, but heavy, and use 2.35 Barzo/Forekaster as well in training. Last year I switched it up a bit and used Aspen EXO 2.25 rear/2.35 Rekon EXO up front for a few races too. Hard to believe I used the Kenda Karma 2.0's, 26ers at sub 500g 15 years ago in similar conditions! A bit envious of racing in some moisture/loam, this dry kitty litter stuff can be quite un-nerving!

    Have you ever done a race on your training tires on a kitty litter course? I bet you have better results despite the "heaviness."

  75. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by tgoods View Post
    Has anyone had issues with the inserts soaking up the sealant fluid?

    I was using some foam tubes from an industrial store that were drinking up all the fluid, especially after a snakebite on the side.
    I've weighed brand new still on the shelf compared to the exact same model after months in the wheel with sealant and the used vs new insert doesn't even weigh one gram apart. That surprised me.
    So no absorption from either Pepi's or Tubolight. That's with many cuts and slices as well as plenty of sealant. Also I use my inserts over several tires, no problem.

    Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

  76. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Suns_PSD View Post
    I've weighed brand new still on the shelf compared to the exact same model after months in the wheel with sealant and the used vs new insert doesn't even weigh one gram apart. That surprised me.
    So no absorption from either Pepi's or Tubolight. That's with many cuts and slices as well as plenty of sealant. Also I use my inserts over several tires, no problem.

    Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk
    Thanks for relaying that. My homemade versions crafted from foam "backing rod" weren't so resistant and I was able to wring sealant from them after a month or so of use. Is there a consensus on which commercial version is best for XC and marathon racing? Is it a wash between Pepi's and Turbolights? Tyreinvader? I'm headed to Moab in a month and will be on my Rocky Mountain Element and think I might benefit from authentic tire inserts there and through the season. But at about $100 a set shipped from Europe, I don't want to do too much experimenting if it's already been done. Thanks!
    "The plural of anecdote is not data." -- Attributed to various people in a variety of forms, but always worth remembering...

  77. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by FJSnoozer View Post
    Have you ever done a race on your training tires on a kitty litter course? I bet you have better results despite the "heaviness."
    Yeah, a number of times. I still like the feel of the bike with a narrower rear tire. Lowers the BB a bit without the voluminous 2.2 Mezcal. Looking back at the last 5 years of results, my best finishes (4th in Cat. 1 Nats in Mammoth, 1st Cat. 1 Cactus Cup XC and GC, 2nd W50 45 plus) have been with either a 2.0 Specizlized Fastrak Grid, or 2.1 Mezcal TNT. I know there are way too many variables to say it was just the tires, but the bike feels way more lively with the narrow rear set up. The IKON 2.2 is pretty darn good too, the Aspen 2.2 OK. These are all with 23mm LB carbon rim. Carbon Kona Hei Hei, 120mm Fox 34 (want to lower to 110 soon to quicken the steering and lower BB a smidge). 3 years prior a TallBoy II with a 120mm SID and an angleset 1 degree steeper).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ptor View Post
    Thanks for relaying that. My homemade versions crafted from foam "backing rod" weren't so resistant and I was able to wring sealant from them after a month or so of use. Is there a consensus on which commercial version is best for XC and marathon racing? Is it a wash between Pepi's and Turbolights? Tyreinvader? I'm headed to Moab in a month and will be on my Rocky Mountain Element and think I might benefit from authentic tire inserts there and through the season. But at about $100 a set shipped from Europe, I don't want to do too much experimenting if it's already been done. Thanks!
    I think the key is "closed cell" foam. Was that specified on the backer rod you used?

  79. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by jps View Post
    Yeah, a number of times. I still like the feel of the bike with a narrower rear tire. Lowers the BB a bit without the voluminous 2.2 Mezcal. Looking back at the last 5 years of results, my best finishes (4th in Cat. 1 Nats in Mammoth, 1st Cat. 1 Cactus Cup XC and GC, 2nd W50 45 plus) have been with either a 2.0 Specizlized Fastrak Grid, or 2.1 Mezcal TNT. I know there are way too many variables to say it was just the tires, but the bike feels way more lively with the narrow rear set up. The IKON 2.2 is pretty darn good too, the Aspen 2.2 OK. These are all with 23mm LB carbon rim. Carbon Kona Hei Hei, 120mm Fox 34 (want to lower to 110 soon to quicken the steering and lower BB a smidge). 3 years prior a TallBoy II with a 120mm SID and an angleset 1 degree steeper).

    Those are classic easy XC courses though. I mean the technical loose courses. Do you ever preride on the other tire to see which is actually faster for the lap? I had deleted most of my post and just posed that question. I know most people dont preride a full gas loop, but I prefer to.


    I'm the opposite. Looking back, all my Cat 1 wins and podiums have occurred on aggressive tires. Deciding factors are usually putting a gap on people through twisty section where my cornering speed is 1-2 mph faster and I develop a gap. Several times I even had a Hans Dampf up from from a recent bike trip to some magical place.


    I am trying to convince myself to end the cycle of worrying about tires before a race and throwing on an aspen the night before. I say this, and I will probably remove the Nobby nics I have and put something light on before my XC race on Sunday. I shouldnt. Typing this is a bit of Therapy...

  80. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by FJSnoozer View Post
    Those are classic easy XC courses though. I mean the technical loose courses. Do you ever preride on the other tire to see which is actually faster for the lap? I had deleted most of my post and just posed that question. I know most people dont preride a full gas loop, but I prefer to.


    I'm the opposite. Looking back, all my Cat 1 wins and podiums have occurred on aggressive tires. Deciding factors are usually putting a gap on people through twisty section where my cornering speed is 1-2 mph faster and I develop a gap. Several times I even had a Hans Dampf up from from a recent bike trip to.


    I am trying to convince myself to end the cycle of worrying about tires before a race and throwing on an aspen the night before. I say this, and I will probably remove the Nobby nics I have and put something light on before my XC race on Sunday. I shouldnt. Typing this is a bit of Therapy...
    It's heavy but morsa rear and xr5 front is a very fast trail tire combination.

    I find the old mountain king 2.2 to be the most precise front tire i've ever ridden.

  81. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by FJSnoozer View Post
    Those are classic easy XC courses though. I mean the technical loose courses. Do you ever preride on the other tire to see which is actually faster for the lap? I had deleted most of my post and just posed that question. I know most people dont preride a full gas loop, but I prefer to.


    I'm the opposite. Looking back, all my Cat 1 wins and podiums have occurred on aggressive tires. Deciding factors are usually putting a gap on people through twisty section where my cornering speed is 1-2 mph faster and I develop a gap. Several times I even had a Hans Dampf up from from a recent bike trip to.


    I am trying to convince myself to end the cycle of worrying about tires before a race and throwing on an aspen the night before. I say this, and I will probably remove the Nobby nics I have and put something light on before my XC race on Sunday. I shouldnt. Typing this is a bit of Therapy...
    Ha, ha, I know what you mean about obsessing about tire choice! Getting ready to leave for the race with my 2.25 Barzo on the front (which felt great compared to the Ikon I removed) and 2.1 Mezcal. I guess for me the rear tire isn't as important in handling. I like the front to be bigger for sure. Last year at the first two desert races I was too lazy to remove my 2.35 Forekaster, and was on the start line with 60 people, thinking to myself that I was way over-tired on the front. I had a 2.1 Mezcal on the rear. It turn out fine for those two races. This year I felt about the same with an Ikon on the front in similar conditions. I could drive myself crazy thinking about it! My team mate, who is a great bike handler, chose to run the new race king ( way narrower than the old version he had used in the pasta) and he would do as you say, put time into me on every corner on those damn tires! We were pushing really hard and fast on the Black Canyon Trail North of PHX (rugged, primitive, loose trail) and I couldn't keep his pace with my 2.25 Mezcal rear, 2.35 Forekaster and dropper post! Some people....thanks for the back and forth. There seem to be many, many good tires these days, and I have quite the pile, but I seem to have it narrowed down to Vittoria, and Maxxis these days...used NN on front, and RRay, but can't afford those tires. Good luck this spring!

  82. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by jps View Post
    There seem to be many, many good tires these days, and I have quite the pile, but I seem to have it narrowed down to Vittoria, and Maxxis these days...used NN on front, and RRay, but can't afford those tires. Good luck this spring!
    Likewise! My first XC race is Sunday.

    My wife and I order Bulk from https://www.bike-discount.de/en/shop/schwalbe-1305

    Tires there are dirt cheap ($35) and arrive promptly. We order lots of back-up tires and then we can sort through the inconsistencies in weight. Some NoNos are 780g and others are 710g She gets all the light tires and I get the heavier ones or they go on the Enduro bike.

    We could start just selling off the heavier ones, but we havent yet. I'm so heavy, 70G on a tire isnt going to make a difference in my race.

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    Quote Originally Posted by spsoon View Post
    I think the key is "closed cell" foam. Was that specified on the backer rod you used?
    I used a Closed Cell backer rod that soaked up all the sealant.

    Sounds like the name brands are using a better more appropriate type of foam.


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  84. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by tgoods View Post
    I used a Closed Cell backer rod that soaked up all the sealant.

    Sounds like the name brands are using a better more appropriate type of foam.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    I think it's hard to tell if inserts are soaking up sealant or just dispersing it. Adding an insert basically doubles the surface area the sealant has to cover and also creates some nooks and crannies inside the rim. Can make a normal dose of sealant look like very little in a hurry.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FJSnoozer View Post
    I am trying to convince myself to end the cycle of worrying about tires before a race and throwing on an aspen the night before. I say this, and I will probably remove the Nobby nics I have and put something light on before my XC race on Sunday. I shouldnt. Typing this is a bit of Therapy...
    Nobby Nics are great XC/Trail tires and not really too heavy for loose XC courses in my opinion.

  86. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by spsoon View Post
    I think the key is "closed cell" foam. Was that specified on the backer rod you used?
    It was spec'd as "closed cell", but I don't have the experience to say wether it actually was or not. It was the consistency that I had expected from pics, but that's all I had to go on. I wish I had done the experiment of weighing the "dry" insert and the post use "wet" foam, but I'm pretty convinced my homemade insert picked up more tubeless mix than just what was sticking to the surface. I'm willing to go the more expensive route for my next go-around (Pepi's or Turbolights) to avoid the issue.
    "The plural of anecdote is not data." -- Attributed to various people in a variety of forms, but always worth remembering...

  87. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrewBird View Post
    I think it's hard to tell if inserts are soaking up sealant or just dispersing it. Adding an insert basically doubles the surface area the sealant has to cover and also creates some nooks and crannies inside the rim. Can make a normal dose of sealant look like very little in a hurry.
    Best way is to weigh them when they go in and weigh them when they come out.

    I find the closed cell backer rod is pretty good, generally no weight gain. The Nube inserts on the other hand come out a lot heavier.
    "The best pace is suicide pace, and today is a good day to die." Steve Prefontaine

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    I order Schwalbes and my inserts from r2bike.com
    About $40 for Schwalbes and they have insert choices not available stateside.
    There is a decent shipping cost so I'll order many things at once.
    They also have the Dissector tire which is always sold out in the US.

    Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

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    New York & northeast trails (rocks, roots, hard pack, and mud).... Cross country racing all the way to epic endurance (La Ruta).

    I've been on Maxxis Ardent Race the last two years and I'm picking up my new Specialized Epic EVO which is equipped with a Spesh Ground Control 29/2.3 on the front and Spesh 29/2.3 Fastrack, grid casing Gripton 2.3" on the back. I'd appreciate any constructive comments on the Specialized tires, especially in comparison with the Ardent Race tires. I'm planning keeping the stock tires on for now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zerort View Post
    I have a set of those skinwalls for sale if anyone wants. 13 miles. I dont like the snakeskin.
    Are these these still available?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stonerider View Post
    Nobby Nics are great XC/Trail tires and not really too heavy for loose XC courses in my opinion.
    It was a good choice for me. It ended up raining and the clay singletrack and wet river rock would not have played well with the Aspen. The course had los of wet wooden bridges with G outs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DrewBird View Post
    I think it's hard to tell if inserts are soaking up sealant or just dispersing it. Adding an insert basically doubles the surface area the sealant has to cover and also creates some nooks and crannies inside the rim. Can make a normal dose of sealant look like very little in a hurry.
    I have physically squeezed tubes and watched sealant pour out, like squeezing a wet sponge.


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    Iím planning on doing La Ruta this year, but my current set up is with Aspens on a Blur. Have you done La Ruta with those Ardent? How it go?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bordeauxman View Post
    New York & northeast trails (rocks, roots, hard pack, and mud).... Cross country racing all the way to epic endurance (La Ruta).

    I've been on Maxxis Ardent Race the last two years and I'm picking up my new Specialized Epic EVO which is equipped with a Spesh Ground Control 29/2.3 on the front and Spesh 29/2.3 Fastrack, grid casing Gripton 2.3" on the back. I'd appreciate any constructive comments on the Specialized tires, especially in comparison with the Ardent Race tires. I'm planning keeping the stock tires on for now.

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    I've done La Ruta 2X and the course is always a little different. Having said that, they throw absolutely everything at you on Day 1. The mud on D1 in the Carrera National Park is insane. The tires must be able to shed mud so less aggressive is good. I had a brush to clean my drive train in streams. Having said that, strong sidewalls are important as well because there a is very wet rocky single track section in the last 3rd of day 1. Unless you have your own mechanic, there is no time to change tires after the fist day 1.

    Day 2 is more dirt/rock road and smooth road so fast rolling is the key.

    Day 3 was changed this year with no railroad bridges or train tracks. The tracks are tough for anybody with tubes (pinch flats) and they can rattle your teeth. Instead of train tracks, we had a lot of Paris Roubaix rock infused dirt roads.

    I'd error towards more durable, less aggressive tires for this race.

    Highly recommend toe spikes for day 1 and day 2 because the hike-a-bike can be insane.

    Any comments on the above mentioned specialized tires?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bordeauxman View Post
    .

    Any comments on the above mentioned specialized tires?
    I really like the Fast Trak as a rear tire, and the Ground Control as a front one. I've used both, and I prefer them to the Maxxis and WTB tires I've tried.

    I'm currently using Fast Traks (2.2) on both wheels on my Epic FSR.

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    Such small thinkers in this group.
    Keep running your Maxxis and any tire over 600 grams. Don't be afraid to get a clue.2020 XC Race Tires-20200215_154748.jpg
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    The new king for fast rolling MTB tires for hard pack and gravel is the 2020 Race King Protection: https://www.bicyclerollingresistance...rotection-2020

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stonerider View Post
    The new king for fast rolling MTB tires for hard pack and gravel is the 2020 Race King Protection: https://www.bicyclerollingresistance...rotection-2020
    Itís a bummer Conti actually reduced puncture resistance on the tread area VS the old Race King.


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    Quote Originally Posted by tgoods View Post
    Itís a bummer Conti actually reduced puncture resistance on the tread area VS the old Race King.


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    Looks like it is also actually undersized now, whereas the older version was oversized for the stated width. Blah.


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    I thought this thread was XC "Race" tires??

    Not, I'm a baby and need a tire I can run everyday, need puncture protection, and large volume so it's soft and squishy and doesn't hurt my body.

    Hahaha.

    People complaining that XC "race" tires might get a flat. That's the chance you take for your "race". The object is to be light and roll fast.

    Any type of racing is expensive. If you can't afford it, throw on your Maxxis Minions and go ride your bike.
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    2020 XC Race Tires

    The problem isnít that Iíd get a flat. Itís that Iíd get multiple flats and run out of vanity to keep the tire inflated.

    Iím hardly big (143lbs) and Iím relatively quick (pro license holder), and we have a lot of sharp, pointy rocks here. And cactus. And other shit, like the odd drop into broken slabs of granite. Breaking a rim because I wanted to run
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    Quote Originally Posted by Le Duke View Post
    The problem isnít that Iíd get a flat. Itís that Iíd get multiple flats and run out of vanity to keep the tire inflated.

    Iím hardly big (143lbs) and Iím relatively quick (pro license holder), and we have a lot of sharp, pointy rocks here. And cactus. And other shit, like the odd drop into broken slabs of granite. Breaking a rim because I wanted to run
    Yeah. Same, but with different environment.

    Curious as to why the pros aren't breaking rims running their small tires.

    Maybe you need better rims?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zerort View Post
    Yeah. Same, but with different environment.

    Curious as to why the pros aren't breaking rims running their small tires.

    Maybe you need better rims?
    Well, most of the guys and gals in the XCO WC races are running EXO or like casings. And many of them are running foam tire liners now, too. Nino was running a 2.4 at one point this year.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Zerort View Post
    I thought this thread was XC "Race" tires??

    Not, I'm a baby and need a tire I can run everyday, need puncture protection, and large volume so it's soft and squishy and doesn't hurt my body.

    Hahaha.

    People complaining that XC "race" tires might get a flat. That's the chance you take for your "race". The object is to be light and roll fast.

    Any type of racing is expensive. If you can't afford it, throw on your Maxxis Minions and go ride your bike.
    Didnít you already do this rant earlier in the tread?


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    Quote Originally Posted by Le Duke View Post
    Looks like it is also actually undersized now, whereas the older version was oversized for the stated width. Blah.


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    I am curious if inserts would make narrow/light tires useable again. A 550 gram tire with a 100 gram insert might be one way of achieving that weight/durability ratio we are all looking for.

    I think it was Chromax who did some testing with that set-up and had some positive results. I haven't tested it myself yet. I do have a set of Exception series 2.1 Aspens in the basement I could try when the snow melts.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zerort View Post
    I thought this thread was XC "Race" tires??

    Not, I'm a baby and need a tire I can run everyday, need puncture protection, and large volume so it's soft and squishy and doesn't hurt my body.
    A few observations.

    You are trying to rip on a few folks who arent racing at the pointy end of Cat 1, so quite frankly, it doesnt matter and leave them alone. This is a thread of opinions and learning.

    Some of us Race on trails and not Bullshit courses like I see most of you cats riding. Sometimes I dont have the time to change my tires and "just run what you brung."

    Maybe you are OK with quitting a race, but that's not everyone's idea of a good time, especially if they drove 3 - 9 hours each way for a race.

    Me...I dont puncture tires, I do get a little too sendy at times and pinch flat if my PSI is a little low, but Dynaplug can handle that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zerort View Post
    People complaining that XC "race" tires might get a flat. That's the chance you take for your "race". The object is to be light and roll fast.

    Any type of racing is expensive. If you can't afford it, throw on your Maxxis Minions and go ride your bike.
    I thought the object is to to go the fastest around the course, not own an install the lightest and fastest rolling tire on your bicycle.

    My time is better spent sitting with my legs up preparing for the race the next day vs changing tires for an hour. I'm also managing more than 1 race bike for each race because my wife races pro, so her bike gets prioritized as long as mine is functioning.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zerort View Post
    Yeah. Same, but with different environment.

    Curious as to why the pros aren't breaking rims running their small tires.

    Maybe you need better rims?
    How would you know they aren't breaking rims? Or any other sponsored part for that matter which gets immediately swapped at the Van. a Specialized rider would never post on their instagram or Strava their broken rim like your average rider would.

    Pros arent "running small tires" nor are they racing on anything like what I get the pleasure of riding. When they do, they spec their bikes accordingly, or pay the consequences.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tgoods View Post
    Didnít you already do this rant earlier in the tread?


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    Nope.
    That was the 2019 XC Race tire thread where all the babies were crying about the same thing.

    I want puncture protection

    I want to race 2.6 or 2.8 tires

    I don't want to buy "race" tires

    I want volume

    Etc. etc.

    The truth is no one really wants actual race tires because "race" tires aren't everyday riding tires.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FJSnoozer View Post
    How would you know they aren't breaking rims? Or any other sponsored part for that matter which gets immediately swapped at the Van. a Specialized rider would never post on their instagram or Strava their broken rim like your average rider would.

    Pros arent "running small tires" nor are they racing on anything like what I get the pleasure of riding. When they do, they spec their bikes accordingly, or pay the consequences.
    Well because I watch the races. And rims aren't breaking.

    And pros aren't running 2.6" or 2.8" tires either.

    Most are on 2.25 or 2.35. Fact.
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  109. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by FJSnoozer View Post
    How would you know they aren't breaking rims?
    At the Rio Olympic my wife took some serious risks with her tire set-up. She raced on a special set of sub 500 gram 2.1 Crossmarks. At the time she was using the aluminum Stans crest wheels, at the end of her race that wheel had at least a dozen flat spots in it. It was actually a good thing those rims were so soft, if she had been running carbon wheels she would have flatted for sure.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LMN View Post
    At the Rio Olympic my wife took some serious risks with her tire set-up. She raced on a special set of sub 500 gram 2.1 Crossmarks. At the time she was using the aluminum Stans crest wheels, at the end of her race that wheel had at least a dozen flat spots in it. It was actually a good thing those rims were so soft, if she had been running carbon wheels she would have flatted for sure.
    LMN,
    You mean a pro was on a fast rolling 2.1" tire? Wow.

    According to the experts in this thread I'm wondering how come your wife wasn't on 2.5 WT DHF with the DH casing?

    HAHAHAHA

    Too funny.
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  111. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zerort View Post
    LMN,
    You mean a pro was on a fast rolling 2.1" tire? Wow.

    According to the experts in this thread I'm wondering how come your wife wasn't on 2.5 WT DHF with the DH casing?

    HAHAHAHA

    Too funny.
    Yep, and she learned from that experience.

    Now she, like nearly every top pro, is running a big tire with extra side wall protection. Even at the world cup level nowadays XC tires are yesterdays trail tires.

    With modern descending speeds nobody runs narrow light tires anymore.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zerort View Post
    Well because I watch the races. And rims aren't breaking.

    And pros aren't running 2.6" or 2.8" tires either.

    Most are on 2.25 or 2.35. Fact.
    And they are generally running EXO or like casings. And tire liners.

    Like this:

    https://www.pinkbike.com/news/bike-c...amps-2019.html

    And this:

    https://www.pinkbike.com/news/bike-c...spark-rc2.html
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    Exactly. KC is running 2.25 like I mentioned above.

    I wouldn't call the Ikon and Aspen "yesterday's trail tires".
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zerort View Post
    Exactly. KC is running 2.25 like I mentioned above.

    I wouldn't call the Ikon and Aspen "yesterday's trail tires".
    My point was that they are riding nearly 700g tires, and yes, they are racing WCs on them.


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    LOL,
    A 29 x 2.20 Maxxis Ikon 3C Exo is 595 grams.

    An Aspen EXO is 645.

    Hardly 700.

    BTW - Schwalbe 2.25 Snakeskin Rocket Ron is 610.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LMN View Post
    Yep, and she learned from that experience.

    Now she, like nearly every top pro, is running a big tire with extra side wall protection. Even at the world cup level nowadays XC tires are yesterdays trail tires.

    With modern descending speeds nobody runs narrow light tires anymore.
    I just saw Catharine's new rig in Instagram. I guess she doesn't have the full Specialized sponsorship as she has Stan's wheels shod with Maxxis Aspen tires.

  117. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zerort View Post
    LOL,
    A 29 x 2.20 Maxxis Ikon 3C Exo is 595 grams.

    An Aspen EXO is 645.

    Hardly 700.

    BTW - Schwalbe 2.25 Snakeskin Rocket Ron is 610.
    And no one in the Bike Checks is using those super light versions.

    The version Pendrel is using in those pictures is 640g (claimed). The tire very clearly says Maxx Speed, EXO, TR, 3C.

    The Rekon Race, which ol' Nino was running in 2.35 at various points this year, is 710g (claimed) in the 120tpi, EXO, TR, Dual compound version. 670g (claimed) for the 2.25. I've got a brand new Rekon Race 2.25 that weighs 699g.

    Those tires are a good bit heavier than the 550g tires you think we should all be running.
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  118. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by Le Duke View Post
    And no one in the Bike Checks is using those super light versions.

    The version Pendrel is using in those pictures is 640g (claimed). The tire very clearly says Maxx Speed, EXO, TR, 3C.

    The Rekon Race, which ol' Nino was running in 2.35 at various points this year, is 710g in the 120tpi, EXO, TR, Dual compound version.

    Those tires are a good bit heavier than the 550g tires you think we should all be running.
    Why would you run a tire Nino runs? You're not even in the same league as he is.

    You think because Nino pushes 700 gram tires and is fast, you will be too? You're foolish.

    You'll be left in the dust.

    Hey, if you want to exert another 25 watts more than me for every minute you are racing, go ahead. I'll wait for you at the finish line.
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  119. #119
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    Nino could whoop your ass on a Walmart 26er.

    Are you going to go out and buy that bike too?
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  120. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zerort View Post
    Why would you run a tire Nino runs? You're not even in the same league as he is.

    You think because Nino pushes 700 gram tires and is fast, you will be too? You're foolish.

    You'll be left in the dust.

    Hey, if you want to exert another 25 watts more than me for every minute you are racing, go ahead. I'll wait for you at the finish line.
    You really think that 100g a tire is going to cost me 25w a minute? Seriously? Do you have any proof of that claim, or are you just making it up? I'm guessing the latter. Please show me any reputable source that would back that up.

    I'm not claiming I'm in the same league as anyone; you are the one who is claiming that anyone who is racing should be on super light tires. I'm showing you that people who are racing at the highest level are getting by just fine on tires nearly 150g heavier than the 550g tire you recently posted.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zerort View Post
    Nope.
    That was the 2019 XC Race tire thread where all the babies were crying about the same thing.

    I want puncture protection

    I want to race 2.6 or 2.8 tires

    I don't want to buy "race" tires

    I want volume

    The truth is no one really wants actual race tires because "race" tires aren't everyday riding tires.
    You're ranting at 5% of the posters in the race tire threads. There are all of 3 people in this thread discussing tires over 2.35 that they use. One of them says they race on Thunderburts, and the other is wanting to go to Aspens.

    This thread must be like groundhog day for you. You wake up, read the first post all over again and post some skinny tire rant.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zerort View Post
    Hey, if you want to exert another 25 watts more than me for every minute you are racing, go ahead. I'll wait for you at the finish line.
    I'd love to see the data for that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Le Duke View Post
    You really think that 100g a tire is going to cost me 25w a minute? Seriously? Do you have any proof of that claim, or are you just making it up? I'm guessing the latter. Please show me any reputable source that would back that up.

    I'm not claiming I'm in the same league as anyone; you are the one who is claiming that anyone who is racing should be on super light tires. I'm showing you that people who are racing at the highest level are getting by just fine on tires nearly 150g heavier than the 550g tire you recently posted.
    This thread isn't about pros racing at high levels. It's about MTBR forum posters who want to "race" or think they are wannabe racers.

    As far as my 25w. I was making a point.

    Look at Bicycle rolling resistance. The fastest Maxxis on that list is the Aspen EXO way down on that list (like 29th) At 30.6 watts, plus 100 grams heavier. You do the math.

    Again, if you don't think 100 grams is a big difference (times 2) which is nearly a 1/2 pound of rotational weight, you are just clueless.

    So many faster tires that what you "think" Nino is riding.
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  124. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by FJSnoozer View Post
    You're ranting at 5% of the posters in the race tire threads. There are all of 3 people in this thread discussing tires over 2.35 that they use.
    Tell LeDuke that.
    LOL
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    Quote Originally Posted by richde View Post
    I'd love to see the data for that.
    https://www.wired.com/2016/06/cyclin...-wheels-enemy/
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zerort View Post
    Tell LeDuke that.
    LOL
    What tire over 2.35 did I claim I use or intend to use? Please quote me. Iíll wait.


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    That doesn't say 25w.

    Pretty sure it comes down to this:

    Quote Originally Posted by FJSnoozer View Post
    Some of us Race on trails and not Bullshit courses like I see most of you cats riding.
    Try that featherweight tire noise at some races and we'll be seeing you standing by the side of the trail with a flat and we'll be the ones waiting for you at the finish line.

    But I'm sure they're great for gravel rides on your MTB.

  128. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by Le Duke View Post
    What tire over 2.35 did I claim I use or intend to use? Please quote me. Iíll wait.


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    Post #117
    The Rekon Race, which ol' Nino was running in 2.35 at various points this year, is 710g (claimed)
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  129. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by richde View Post
    That doesn't say 25w.

    Pretty sure it comes down to this:



    Try that featherweight tire noise at some races and we'll be seeing you standing by the side of the trail with a flat and we'll be the ones waiting for you at the finish line.

    But I'm sure they're great for gravel rides on your MTB.
    Continental Race King "Protection" 20.2 watts
    Maxxis Aspen Exo 30.6 watts

    Time 2 is 20 watts.

    Hey, I was close
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    You just posted an article which doesn't even attempt to quantify the difference in power output based on changes in tire weights. The word "watt" doesn't appear in that article a single time. Not even once. Zero.

    So, you made up a random ass number for some reason, and then suggested that you'd wait for me at the finish line of a theoretical race, in an attempt to shame me for being slow, or something.

    Strange.
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  131. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by Le Duke View Post
    You just posted an article which doesn't even attempt to quantify the difference in power output based on changes in tire weights. The word "watt" doesn't appear in that article a single time. Not even once. Zero.

    So, you made up a random ass number for some reason, and then suggested that you'd wait for me at the finish line of a theoretical race, in an attempt to shame me for being slow, or something.

    Strange.
    Dude, the article is an example that weight matters. Keep running your 2.35 Maxxis that Nino runs and wonder why you finish shit.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Le Duke View Post
    So, you made up a random ass number for some reason, and then suggested that you'd wait for me at the finish line of a theoretical race, in an attempt to shame me for being slow, or something.

    Strange.
    You must be a millenial
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zerort View Post
    Post #117
    The Rekon Race, which ol' Nino was running in 2.35 at various points this year, is 710g (claimed)
    Do you understand that the word "over" means bigger than 2.35?

    Please, read everything I say a couple of times before responding to me. Then, carefully think about what I wrote. Don't pick and choose the words you respond to.
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  134. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zerort View Post
    Continental Race King "Protection" 20.2 watts
    Maxxis Aspen Exo 30.6 watts

    Time 2 is 20 watts.

    Hey, I was close
    Why are you comparing Crr when we are talking about weight? The link you just posted, and the post richde responded to, are posts specifically talking about WEIGHT. Not ROLLING RESISTANCE.
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  135. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zerort View Post
    You must be a millenial
    And you're a slow old dude.

    See? I can make up facts about people I've never met before, too!
    Death from Below.

  136. #136
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    Maybe Zerort means zero rational thinking. Or maybe heís related to Detroit Lane.
    Never underestimate an old man with a mountain bike.

  137. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zerort View Post
    Continental Race King "Protection" 20.2 watts
    Maxxis Aspen Exo 30.6 watts

    Time 2 is 20 watts.

    Hey, I was close
    Yup, solid choice for gravel racing....but I wouldn't use the same method of testing road bike rolling resistance for mountain bikes because I don't ride my MTB on the road.

    and the Maxxis tested was 2.25".

    Quote Originally Posted by Le Duke View Post
    And you're a slow old dude.

    See? I can make up facts about people I've never met before, too!
    He just thinks everyone rides on the same non-threatening trails he does.

  138. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by richde View Post
    Yup, solid choice for gravel racing....but I wouldn't use the same method of testing road bike rolling resistance for mountain bikes because I don't ride my MTB on the road.

    and the Maxxis tested was 2.25".



    He just thinks everyone rides on the same non-threatening trails he does.
    Smart. Gravel riding on a 2.25 tire. Makes sense.

    Yes, the Maxxis tested was 2.25. The 2.35 will be heavier.

    Thanks for proving my point.
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  139. #139
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    I remember an interviewer asking Gunn-Rita what tyres she was running and not believing her when she said they were standard Ikon's. Oh, prototype's - No. Oh, special from - No. Oh, really light - No.
    She was almost getting a little annoyed

  140. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zerort View Post
    Smart. Gravel riding on a 2.25 tire. Makes sense.

    Yes, the Maxxis tested was 2.25. The 2.35 will be heavier.

    Thanks for proving my point.
    You failed to prove your point because you can't figure out the difference between apples (weight) and oranges (road test rolling resistance.).

  141. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by richde View Post
    You failed to prove your point because you can't figure out the difference between apples (weight) and oranges (road test rolling resistance.).
    A lot of examples given in this thread were of Maxxis tires. You know, what Nino and Catherine run - must be good right.

    And, my point is that those Maxxis tires that you all love are slow AF. Fact.

    Also, the article proves weight does matter. Go ahead and do the math. But apparently you aren't smart enough.

    A lighter, non-Maxxis tire from Continental or Schwalbe will be a faster RACE tire than some EXO Maxxis garbage tires that those PROS are running.

    My point is proven. You just need to read, comprehend, use common sense and figure it out.

    If you are too poor to buy "RACE" tires, or too lazy to swap to "Race" tires for a RACE, than use what you ride everyday. But those are not "Race" tires that this thread is talking about. And if they are, they are slow "race" tires.
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  142. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zerort View Post
    A lot of examples given in this thread were of Maxxis tires. You know, what Nino and Catherine run - must be good right.

    And, my point is that those Maxxis tires that you all love are slow AF. Fact.

    Also, the article proves weight does matter. Go ahead and do the math. But apparently you aren't smart enough.

    A lighter, non-Maxxis tire from Continental or Schwalbe will be a faster RACE tire than some EXO Maxxis garbage tires that those PROS are running.

    My point is proven. You just need to read, comprehend, use common sense and figure it out.

    If you are too poor to buy "RACE" tires, or too lazy to swap to "Race" tires for a RACE, than use what you ride everyday. But those are not "Race" tires that this thread is talking about. And if they are, they are slow "race" tires.
    Your "race tire" is faster on the road, something you fail to take into account.

  143. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zerort View Post
    Continental Race King "Protection" 20.2 watts
    Maxxis Aspen Exo 30.6 watts

    Time 2 is 20 watts.

    Hey, I was close
    That website is worthless. Here are the reasons why. Prepare to have your heart broken.

    1. All tires in this test are tested with a Butyl Tube. His own testing with a butyl tube shows the drastic difference Tubeless makes vs Latex vs Butyl. In fact as the PSI gets lower, the Delta is dramatic.


    Their own article tests this, yet their testing protocols arent controlled enough. They should be testing ALL mountain bike tires as Tubeless. PERIOD.

    See their own data:
    https://www.bicyclerollingresistance...ex-butyl-tubes

    What they havent tested is how their tube interacts with the inside of the tire. Schwalbe and Conti basicly feel like slick plastic on the inside of their tires. I bet that tube doesnt bind as much as it does on a Specialized or Maxxis tire which is very dry sticky rubber internally. They should test this, or throw out all results period for this test. Basically you have a worthless test of tires that doesnt apply to mountain biking.

    2. Testing is done on a Steel Drum at 25 PSI. I dont know the last time any of us raced on a steel drum or at 25 psi. These tires should be tested at 5PSI increments from 15-30. Their own testing shows the diminishing returns as the go to 35. Basically you have a worthless test of tires that doesnt apply to mountain biking.


    3. if you take a keen eye to the results, Use your brain, and actually ride a few of these tires, you will see some major issues with their results. Clearly this is due to rubber compound interacting with a metal drum and not how fast a tire is.

    The tires are tested out of the box. Thats like testing a chain with Factory packaging grease. Maxxis are insanely sticky in their original packaging. I have a polished 1/8 mile concrete hallway at my house and they make an absolute racket when new and are even difficult to turn when new and clean. Schwalbe on the other hand are almost greasy and silent out of the box. The moment these tires get dusty everything changes.

    Let me help you.

    If we were to go by these tests, someone should be running a Hans Dampf instead of an Aspen. (See image and their results)

    Have you ever ridden a Hans Dampf on the rear of your bike? I have.



    You can even see the difference their sticky front tire compound plays on the metal drum. Its the same tire! it just has a softer coating of rubber on the knob, which makes more friction on a steel drum.

    Lastly, for some non-scientific real world testing. I own almost all of these tires on the image and then some. I have yet to beat my Consistent times on Aspen/forekaster, aspen/ikon,(or other Schwalbe trail tires) with my set of Big Ones. I have tried! I wanted them to be so much faster for that 20 minute stretch of bike path. By your math they should save 18x2 = 36 watts since I run my aspens below 25 psi and my big ones at 45. They just aren't really faster at 20 mph.


    I know you wont read any of this, but hopefully someone else does so they don't fall for any of the worthless data on that website as I once did.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 2020 XC Race Tires-tires.png  


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    Quote Originally Posted by LMN View Post
    Yep, and she learned from that experience.

    Now she, like nearly every top pro, is running a big tire with extra side wall protection. Even at the world cup level nowadays XC tires are yesterdays trail tires.

    With modern descending speeds nobody runs narrow light tires anymore.
    There you go.

    I've run my share of Sworks/Liteskin/skinwall/etc tires and they're intoxicatingly quick, but I pulled 15-20 positions in the 2018 Oz Trails Off Road passing guys fixing flats in the Back 40 while I cruised by on my 730g tires. Same thing happened in the Pro race the next day, 17 of the top 20 pro males had at least one flat. Same thing happened this year to many pros running less than EXO/GRID/etc on the same course.

    Courses are getting more challenging and speeds are going up, tires have to get more capable and durable. Maybe we'll see them get lighter once the casing/compounds catch up? I'll go with durability and rolling resistance over saving 100g per tire these days, fewer mechanicals and DNF's for me that way.
    -DC, just some XC Bum from FL in NW Arkansas

  145. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zerort View Post
    Fact.
    If you don't figure out how to not be so inflammatory, I will just block you.

    Fact

    Your arguments are senseless and argumentative for no good reason. Having your own opinions on what you prefer is fine. Insulting the choices of others is at best annoying, counter productive at worst.

  146. #146
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    Tires are a very very personal preference,

    1) there is some actual real engineering to the drum test and I do take this into consideration, albeit its not real world how we use the tires. As rolling resistance is about the deflection and the amount of energy it takes to go through this process.

    2) Pro's Ride the brand they are paid to run and they do have access to prototype tires, as to when they are using them or off the shelf tire I won't know.

    3) I never really destroy my tires , lived on the front range in Colorado and raced there for 15 years and just has never been a big issue for me, now I live in Minnesota and raced here last season and I will probably regret saying this but no sidewalls cuts and I did not flat once all last year racing or trail riding . What I ride here is not that hard on tires as I do pick my lines and do not just bomb through rock gardens.

    4) Brand loyalty is natural some people love Maxxis ( I don't) I tried and raced a 2.25 NON exc Rekon Race beginning of the season. I raced and used Michelin in Colorado and loved them tried an Jet this year and if I had the clearance on the rear I might still be using it. Used Continentals Race King / Cross King set up here in mid west 2014-2016.
    Had issues with full retail price Schwalbe a few years back and bead failed and pissed me off as they would not warranty it so I hated on Schwalbe for a couple years, now I'm back on the band wagon after picking a couple up cheap.

    Finished the season on 2.25 Rocket Ron Snake Skin / 2.1 Thunder Burt Lite Skin

    Also big big fan of Vittoria Tire tried Barzo, mezcal' Terreno and Peyote and for my trail I will have one set of wheel with Peyote / Terreno on them this year , I am old and slower than 20 years ago and I can feel the weight of the Vittoria when accelerating out of corners vs my Schwalbe setup.

    5} Tire Size, I would never run a 2.4-2.6 tire to race that is just me( trail size imo), and I'm not fast enough to need that extra foot print, 2.25" on 25/26mm internal width rims works for me.

    6) In stalking the tires the pro where using at snowshoe World Cup this year it was interesting (most run snake skin and exc)and some are using inserts/noodles in the rear to run another 3-4 psi lower, something I'm going to try experimenting with this year.

    7) I'm buying a power meter this spring and then as I'm an Mechanical Engineer and I know enough to be dangerous I can match watts with times and have my own numbers
    as that works for me ! I did some back to back testing this year , Barzo vs Rocket Ron back to back Front only same rear tire and on this on loop I felt more confidence on the Rocket ron vs the Barzo and was approx. 40 seconds faster on RoRo on a 45 minute loop.

    On another loop the Peyote was faster than the Rocket Ron, I learned a lot this year and there are so many variables in the tire condition that call for different tires.

    Top Three tire attributes for me
    1) How confident does it feel (to push harder in corners)
    2) weight actual
    3) rolling resistance (drum test)
    4) Sum of 2 & 3 = acceleration out of corners and from an engineering stand point number do not lie and it adds up say 50 times a lap going from 7-8mph to 12-14mph

    As with several others that posted on the thread I get very animated as what I use I believe in and don't get how or why anyone would run a 2.4-2.6" & 800-900 gram tires to race on, I just not that strong and outside of NICA racers that are using trail bike I don't see that size tire at the races and from days gone by we raced 2.0-2.25 for ever on 26" bikes and with the larger contact patch on a 29er I see no reason the run anything larger than my current 2.25" with nice volume and actural casing width of 55-58mm

    Thanks for the Rant !

  147. #147
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    When I am looking at tires there is a lot to choose from.

    Brand loyalty is huge factor. If a brand has made a tire that you like you are probably going to stick with them. And if you have been burned by a brand you are probably going to avoid them.

    For me my absolutely goto tire is a Maxxis Ikon 2.2. Not the fastest tire, not the lightest tire but it is a tire that I can race with confidence. I find their handling characteristics match my riding well, I can ride them aggressively in a big variety of condition. To top it off they are the most durable XC tire I have used and I find their performance almost gets better as they age (to a point).
    "The best pace is suicide pace, and today is a good day to die." Steve Prefontaine

  148. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stonerider View Post
    I just saw Catharine's new rig in Instagram. I guess she doesn't have the full Specialized sponsorship as she has Stan's wheels shod with Maxxis Aspen tires.
    For bikes basically they only changed frames. She is on specialized shoes and helmets this year.
    "The best pace is suicide pace, and today is a good day to die." Steve Prefontaine

  149. #149
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    I've been suckered by those drum tests too in the past.....and weight. When I first got my bike, it came with Specialized Fast Traks that weighed 700grams each. I immediately pulled them off and put 625g Race Kings on. After the knobs shredded on the RKs after only a few weeks, I put the Fast Traks back on and holy sh$t they rolled so much faster and I set new PRs on my regular loop by at least 15 seconds on my first ride. I am talking off road here, not road. The FTs were way more supple, and didn't bounce on every root so you didn't lose momentum with every trail imperfection. The RKs were fast on pavement but they either rim striked or bounced no matter what psi I experimented with. Lesson learned. I hope all my competition listens to Zerot.

  150. #150
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    Wow, things got spicy in here.

    A while back the Swiss Cycling federation tested and published a tire comparison test. In the test they included multiple brands and found the Race King 2.2 to be the fastest (even faster than the Aspen that the Scott team ended up racing). Does anybody have a copy of the report, it used to be available on PubMed, but I can't seem to find it anymore.

    It was executed very similarly to this test between 26" & 29". https://www.researchgate.net/publica...bd04f/download

  151. #151
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    I remember that article. It was conducted on something like 30% grass, 30% mud and 30% gravel if I remember correctly. For me personally those conditions don't apply. I ride almost all singletrack with lots of roots and bumps. A fast roller on smooth surface with stiff sidewalls will not be fast on my trails. Continentals are about the worse tires I've ridden for my conditions.

  152. #152
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    I just set a PB up a 10 min XC climb by 30s tonight.
    On a gravel bike with 45mm Specialized Sawtooths.
    Previous best was Ground Controls on the Anthem.

    Was about 5min slower on the 2min descent though. That was scary...

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    In Michigan, the land of sand and roots, I'm running 2.1 Renegade S-WORKS front and rear on my hardtail. On the full suspension I am sticking with last year's combo of 2.25 Racing Ray EVO TLE on the front and 2.0 Fast Trak.

  154. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lickety Split View Post
    In Michigan, the land of sand and roots, I'm running 2.1 Renegade S-WORKS front and rear on my hardtail. On the full suspension I am sticking with last year's combo of 2.25 Racing Ray EVO TLE on the front and 2.0 Fast Trak.
    I've become a fan of Speshy tires. I will try the S-works next. I found my times to be consistently faster on the regular Gripton Fast Traks than even Aspen exos, although I have never used the 170tpi version of the Aspens. My only complaint about the FTs is that actual weights can deviate quite a bit from claimed weights. I was really surprised that my stock FTs weighed 700g. But they were still fast so.....

  155. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by Le Duke View Post
    And no one in the Bike Checks is using those super light versions.

    The version Pendrel is using in those pictures is 640g (claimed). The tire very clearly says Maxx Speed, EXO, TR, 3C.

    The Rekon Race, which ol' Nino was running in 2.35 at various points this year, is 710g (claimed) in the 120tpi, EXO, TR, Dual compound version. 670g (claimed) for the 2.25. I've got a brand new Rekon Race 2.25 that weighs 699g.

    Those tires are a good bit heavier than the 550g tires you think we should all be running.
    Nino is not running normal 120 tpi tyres. He uses 170 tpi tyres that are just for pro riders. And those 170 tyres are light.

    https://bikerumor.com/2017/03/06/max...asing-details/
    Last edited by dokker; 02-20-2020 at 08:17 AM.

  156. #156
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    I'm hesitant about S-Works after I and a racer I know both slashed at Bonelli last year getting DNF's. I know a lot of other riders slashed sidewalls too, but I don't know what tires they were running (though Specialized bikes are ultra common here). I don't consider Bonelli a technical course, just one rough section. The slash was barely even noticeable, but the paper thin sidewalls couldn't handle it.

  157. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by LMN View Post
    For me my absolutely goto tire is a Maxxis Ikon 2.2. Not the fastest tire, not the lightest tire but it is a tire that I can race with confidence. I find their handling characteristics match my riding well, I can ride them aggressively in a big variety of condition. To top it off they are the most durable XC tire I have used and I find their performance almost gets better as they age (to a point).
    I'll blame you if I have issues then

    To go on the Anthem's 25mm rims for a 4hr XC in a month.
    2020 XC Race Tires-img_20200222_133804.jpg

    Price-wise, I'd prefer FastTrak's (non-grid) at 2/3 of the price, but the possibly rockier conditions will play to the strength's of the Ikon's rubber compound.

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    Isnít the Specialized Control casing similar to EXO? I even heard a rumor that Specislized tires come out of the Maxxis factory (no proof just something I heard).

  159. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unbrockenchain View Post
    Isnít the Specialized Control casing similar to EXO? I even heard a rumor that Specislized tires come out of the Maxxis factory (no proof just something I heard).
    The Control casing is very supple.
    Grid is more like EXO.

  160. #160
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    Maxxis tyres are made in the Cheng Shin factory (sorta)

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    Iíve ridden on Maxxis EXO for years and switch at the the end of last year to Grid and found them way stiffer. Had to really reduce air pressure to (about 18/20 f/r) to get rid of harsh feeling. I do like the gripton thread.

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    Grid is a bit stiff for XC racing.

  163. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zerort View Post
    Why would you run a tire Nino runs? You're not even in the same league as he is.

    You think because Nino pushes 700 gram tires and is fast, you will be too? You're foolish.

    You'll be left in the dust.

    Hey, if you want to exert another 25 watts more than me for every minute you are racing, go ahead. I'll wait for you at the finish line.
    And an FYI Nino was on a Prototype Aspen at Snowshoe WC and IDK if anyone outside the actual Team knows the size and TPI and construction of the tire ( I will find the pic we took) and for the Noodle he's running all I know is that they have PTN swag and stickers in there pit area

  164. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by dokker View Post
    Nino is not running normal 120 tpi tyres. He uses 170 tpi tyres that are just for pro riders. And those 170 tyres are light.

    https://bikerumor.com/2017/03/06/max...asing-details/


    Here is only 9 months old but similar to the Tires he was running at Snowshoes WC

    https://bikerumor.com/2019/05/24/spy...in-bike-tires/

  165. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by hesitationpoint View Post
    I've been suckered by those drum tests too in the past.....and weight. When I first got my bike, it came with Specialized Fast Traks that weighed 700grams each. I immediately pulled them off and put 625g Race Kings on. After the knobs shredded on the RKs after only a few weeks, I put the Fast Traks back on and holy sh$t they rolled so much faster and I set new PRs on my regular loop by at least 15 seconds on my first ride. I am talking off road here, not road. The FTs were way more supple, and didn't bounce on every root so you didn't lose momentum with every trail imperfection. The RKs were fast on pavement but they either rim striked or bounced no matter what psi I experimented with. Lesson learned. I hope all my competition listens to Zerot.
    As I previously posted Drum Test are only one tool I use in my Tire selection, the main consideration is that they are pretty much apples and apples all tested the same.
    I know he uses tubes in the test albeit we all run tubeless, if you read the blog on the tubeless test he ran on Continental Race Kings it others what most of us know regarding rolling resistance.
    AS for the noodles if World Cup racers are using them , they have found some benefit with there setup.

    I am curious at a heavier rider I can get my PSI down a little more w/o squirm.
    I also know that on the rear there is a wider psi range for me with Schwalbe Snakeskins vs Liteskin or Maxxis Rekon Race non EXO as the Lighter sidewall tires are a lot more sensitive to psi at my 200# as to squirming vs bouncy

    Trying a PTN R Evolution in my snake skin Thunder Burt might be the best of both worlds, only a field test will tell

  166. #166
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    Anymore tried the new PTN R-Evolution ?2020 XC Race Tires-ptn-r-evo.jpgName:  PTN R Evo cutaway.png
Views: 1720
Size:  4.7 KBName:  PTN size Compar.jpg
Views: 1621
Size:  5.8 KB2020 XC Race Tires-ptn-raceline.jpg
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 2020 XC Race Tires-ptn-racelite.jpg  

    2020 XC Race Tires-ptn-rokkline.jpg  


  167. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by NordieBoy View Post
    I just set a PB up a 10 min XC climb by 30s tonight.
    On a gravel bike with 45mm Specialized Sawtooths.
    Previous best was Ground Controls on the Anthem.

    Was about 5min slower on the 2min descent though. That was scary...
    OK, the Ikon's definitely roll slower than the Ground Control's which are slower than the FastTrak's.
    But the quality of the rubber touching the ground was higher with the Ikons.
    Just went 16s faster again.
    Some good descending times too. Confidence inspiring grip.

  168. #168
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    It just proves yet again that rolling resistance isnít the be all end all unless youíre on a course that can really capitalize on that.
    CADRE RACING

    Vassago Radimus
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  169. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebeat007 View Post
    It just proves yet again that rolling resistance isnít the be all end all unless youíre on a course that can really capitalize on that.
    You're saying we should be using tyres suited to the course?

  170. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by NordieBoy View Post
    OK, the Ikon's definitely roll slower than the Ground Control's which are slower than the FastTrak's.
    But the quality of the rubber touching the ground was higher with the Ikons.
    Just went 16s faster again.
    Some good descending times too. Confidence inspiring grip.
    All 29x2.25 / 2.3 ?
    What compound and year are the specialized tires ?

    I work at a Specialized Dealer and they have made several changes as they now have a plant that there tires are made , now the only brand bike tires being made there. Don't know were they where made before 2016 but they made several brand s of tire there

    I ran the Rekon Race 2.25 non exo(618g) and S works Renegade 2.3(543g)

    I liked the Renegade straight line traction and braking grip better but because it has a much more rounded tread it would slide out easier / before the Rekon Race would and for my area and riding style I prefer a slightly more squared off profile

  171. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spin Cycle View Post
    Anymore tried the new PTN R-Evolution ?
    I installed a set this weekend -- my wrists and thumbs still hurt. These and two Schwalbe tires came to me from Germany.

    Components:
    • Weight: 65 grams and 70 grams
    • Construction: Very tight/closed foam construction, I would assume much less likely to take up sealant than the closed cell foam backer rod I experimented with last fall, glued junction to close the circle.
    • Rim: The carbon rims (24mm internal width) that came stock on my 2018 Rocky Mountain Element
    • Front Tire: New Schwalbe Racing Ray 2.3, EVO TLE Addix Speedgrip, 720g
    • Rear Tire: Older Bontrager XR1 2.2, Team Issue Tubeless Ready, (really like this tire on the rear, bigger volume than the 2.3 Racing Ray)
    • Sealant: Trucker Co Cream II
    • Valves: Two valves were included with the insert. I broke one during inflation by pushing too hard with my compressor chuck -- never had that happen before, after using scores of tubeless valves over the years.



    Installation:
    • I had to use tire irons despite lots of soap on beads, video watching, trying to summon my inner Hulk.
    • After breaking the valve, I had to disassemble one to put in a new valve and it went back together easier the second time (new Racing Ray, maybe a bit of a stretch in the tire bead?
    • The sealant could not be added through the valve -- I tried. The insert forced it out around the bead. It has to be added with the bead not yet set -- a drawback as I like to top off my tires without disassembling over a couple of months. I'm the "put a tire on and let it set until I have a very good reason -- say replacement -- to take it off" camp...
    • The rear tire has a wobble that isn't in the rim, worked it out somewhat by letting the air out and wrenching the tire back and forth on the rim (with soapy water lubricating it) but didn't entirely get rid of it. As it was an old tire, I know it was "balanced" without the insert, so I'm blaming it on the insert. However, the front rolls balanced.



    Hows it work?:
    Don't really know, there's a lot of snow, ice and mud. Really it's fat bike and ski season.
    Rode it on drier roads and sidewalks at very low (~10 psi) and regular (~20 psi), banging into curbs and square edges. My PSI's are not accurate, but the ~10 psi was approaching as soft as I would need to run the fat bike on soft snow, and the ~20 psi would have me worried about racing in the rocky terrain we have around here for fear of rim strikes. Didn't have the courage to go fast into obstacles at 10 psi, but the tires stayed on through tight turns that easily folded the sidewalls and never impacted the rim. Faster hits to square edges at 20 psi convinced me at that it would be a rare hit that got through to the rim at that psi. As far as rim protection goes, I think the PTN R-evolution inserts are as described. I'm anxious to see how they work during my 3 days in Moab coming up in mid-March.
    "The plural of anecdote is not data." -- Attributed to various people in a variety of forms, but always worth remembering...

  172. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spin Cycle View Post
    All 29x2.25 / 2.3 ?
    What compound and year are the specialized tires ?

    I work at a Specialized Dealer and they have made several changes as they now have a plant that there tires are made , now the only brand bike tires being made there. Don't know were they where made before 2016 but they made several brand s of tire there
    Gripton's bought last year.
    I love the Ground Control's (non-grid) on the single speed. Excellent rolling and good climbing traction.
    The FastTrak's roll better, don't climb as well (still good though) but trail brake through the corners nicely.
    The Ikon's felt sluggish compared, but I've always loved the compound and the grip levels over roots and rocks.
    Even on my moto's I preferred trials tyres to knobblies.

  173. #173
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    Hi guys

    Anyone here is sponsored by Maxxis?

    What tyre size are you using if you are sponsored by Maxxis, or if you only ride Maxxis tyres.

    In another word for pure XCO racing and some small portion of XCM.
    I will be using Ikon and Aspen 29x2.2

    But I see a lot of riders now use 29x2.35 -2.40

  174. #174
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    Any info about "Aspen ST" tyre? Seen on the Scottmtbracing instagram.
    Weight and availability would be nice to know. They seem ready to hit the stores?

    https://www.instagram.com/p/B8_6hfEp..._web_copy_link

    I know that Nino have been running Aspen 2.4s but I not seen the Aspen ST name on his tyres.

  175. #175
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    Quote Originally Posted by aland33 View Post
    Any info about "Aspen ST" tyre? Seen on the Scottmtbracing instagram.
    Weight and availability would be nice to know. They seem ready to hit the stores?

    https://www.instagram.com/p/B8_6hfEp..._web_copy_link

    I know that Nino have been running Aspen 2.4s but I not seen the Aspen ST name on his tyres.
    Im not seeing it listed in the 2020 Maxxis catalog.

  176. #176
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    For 2020, I am using:

    Vittoria Mezcal XC Race 29 x 2.25 (694g & 696g) for more technical courses
    Continental Race King Protection 29 x 2.2 (623g & 624g) for hi speed courses

    Last year I used Onza Svelt 29 x 2.25 (120tpi) and loved the speed and grip of them!!!

  177. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skier78 View Post
    Has anyone tried the Kenda Booster tires? https://bicycle.kendatire.com/en-eu/...athon/booster/

    I have been running Maxxis Ikons for the last 3-4 years and have been happy with how long they last but would like to have a bit more grip when cornering, and those Kendas seem to get good reviews in the magazines at least. I am looking at buying the 29x2.2 SCT version.
    I've been running Maxxis Ardent Race 2.35 on front and Ikon 2.2 on the back for 4 years with good success but I recently switched to Kenda BoosterPro SCTs and love them. I have the 2.4 on front (narrow 21mm internal width rim, so calipers at 2.35) and a 2.2 on the rear (calipers at 2.2). They are high volume and round, roll way faster that the Maxxis combo and corner great. I'm in So Cal with dry, loose-over-hard, some baby head rocks, some chunk.

  178. #178
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    Quote Originally Posted by sotak1 View Post
    hi, i have a 29er HT, having maxxis ikon 2.35 both rear and front, i am looking for a grippier all around front tire.
    I have seen the new Vittoria Barzo 2.35, new Continental Crossking 2.3 and Maxxis Ardent race 2.35.
    What to you think from your experience ?
    Thanks
    I have used the AR 2.35 on the front for 4 plus years and like it a lot, fast and very secure in corners. Ikon 2.2 on back, but recently switched to Kenda's BoosterPro SCTs in 2.4 F and 2.2 R.

  179. #179
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    Have ridden MAXXIS tyres for last 3 seasons, Aspen EXO 2.25 f/r and Recon race 2.35 f/r.

    This year i'm thinking if i ride with 2.25 Aspen EXO f/r again or maybe trying 2.25 ray/ralph ?

    Does anybody have a side-by-side comparisons between aspen/aspen vs ray/ralph combo?

    I have previously had a bad experiences with cutting rocket ron sidewalls, but would be interesting to try something different this season, although why change something that works ?

    I will be using them for XCO type races only, because for XCM i have 2.25 thunder burts, so i prefer to not give up on durability, because i like to ride rock gardens and technical places quite agressive, so no Liteskin and non-exos for me.

  180. #180
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    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  181. #181
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    Anyone else think you get significant aero drag from all those hairs?

  182. #182
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    Quote Originally Posted by spsoon View Post
    Anyone else think you get significant aero drag from all those hairs?
    Probably if it was for down country


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  183. #183
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    Quote Originally Posted by spsoon View Post
    Anyone else think you get significant aero drag from all those hairs?
    No, but I do think it gives a false reading on the Drum Test.

  184. #184
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    THey are high on the "Chewbacca Scale":

    https://www.triathlete.com/gear-tech...s-wind-tunnel/

  185. #185
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    decided to ride aspen 2.25 exo this year, bought 4 tyres.

    Claimed weight 660g, my scale showed: 641,645,642 and 680

  186. #186
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    Quote Originally Posted by FJSnoozer View Post
    No, but I do think it gives a false reading on the Drum Test.
    Well that false reading must be an advantage because the 2020 Race King won the drum test. They are a nice weight also for current (2020) XC tires.

  187. #187
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    Just got some 29x2.6 XR2's. Came in at 774 and 735g. I think these are gonna be a great velcro tire

  188. #188
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    Quote Originally Posted by spsoon View Post
    Just got some 29x2.6 XR2's. Came in at 774 and 735g. I think these are gonna be a great velcro tire
    Measure true to width?


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    Death from Below.

  189. #189
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    Quote Originally Posted by Le Duke View Post
    Measure true to width?
    Won't be mounting them up for a while, but they're about 160mm bead-to-bead

  190. #190
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    Hi, i have installed Continental cross king 29x2.3 protection blackchili on 25mm inner width rims and i think is perfect front tire. Before that i had Maxxis Ikon 2.35 both front and rear. Now ck 2.3 front, ikon 2.35 rear. The ck is a little smaller than ikon but has taller side and middle knobs. I am very satisfied with this setup.

  191. #191
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stonerider View Post
    Well that false reading must be an advantage because the 2020 Race King won the drum test. They are a nice weight also for current (2020) XC tires.
    Yes, The drum test is bullshit. That was the point.

  192. #192
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ptor View Post
    I installed a set this weekend -- my wrists and thumbs still hurt. These and two Schwalbe tires came to me from Germany.

    Components:
    • Weight: 65 grams and 70 grams
    • Construction: Very tight/closed foam construction, I would assume much less likely to take up sealant than the closed cell foam backer rod I experimented with last fall, glued junction to close the circle.
    • Rim: The carbon rims (24mm internal width) that came stock on my 2018 Rocky Mountain Element
    • Front Tire: New Schwalbe Racing Ray 2.3, EVO TLE Addix Speedgrip, 720g
    • Rear Tire: Older Bontrager XR1 2.2, Team Issue Tubeless Ready, (really like this tire on the rear, bigger volume than the 2.3 Racing Ray)
    • Sealant: Trucker Co Cream II
    • Valves: Two valves were included with the insert. I broke one during inflation by pushing too hard with my compressor chuck -- never had that happen before, after using scores of tubeless valves over the years.



    Installation:
    • I had to use tire irons despite lots of soap on beads, video watching, trying to summon my inner Hulk.
    • After breaking the valve, I had to disassemble one to put in a new valve and it went back together easier the second time (new Racing Ray, maybe a bit of a stretch in the tire bead?
    • The sealant could not be added through the valve -- I tried. The insert forced it out around the bead. It has to be added with the bead not yet set -- a drawback as I like to top off my tires without disassembling over a couple of months. I'm the "put a tire on and let it set until I have a very good reason -- say replacement -- to take it off" camp...
    • The rear tire has a wobble that isn't in the rim, worked it out somewhat by letting the air out and wrenching the tire back and forth on the rim (with soapy water lubricating it) but didn't entirely get rid of it. As it was an old tire, I know it was "balanced" without the insert, so I'm blaming it on the insert. However, the front rolls balanced.



    Hows it work?:
    Don't really know, there's a lot of snow, ice and mud. Really it's fat bike and ski season.
    Rode it on drier roads and sidewalks at very low (~10 psi) and regular (~20 psi), banging into curbs and square edges. My PSI's are not accurate, but the ~10 psi was approaching as soft as I would need to run the fat bike on soft snow, and the ~20 psi would have me worried about racing in the rocky terrain we have around here for fear of rim strikes. Didn't have the courage to go fast into obstacles at 10 psi, but the tires stayed on through tight turns that easily folded the sidewalls and never impacted the rim. Faster hits to square edges at 20 psi convinced me at that it would be a rare hit that got through to the rim at that psi. As far as rim protection goes, I think the PTN R-evolution inserts are as described. I'm anxious to see how they work during my 3 days in Moab coming up in mid-March.
    Any Updates ? I think I might try the Tubolights in Small 23 grams and Medium 44 grams

  193. #193
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spin Cycle View Post
    Any Updates ? I think I might try the Tubolights in Small 23 grams and Medium 44 grams
    I have about 30 miles on off-road terrain on the PTN R-Evolution inserts. I definitely feel confident running my tires at around 2 to 3 PSI less than before, so probably around 18 in the front and 21 on the rear (best guesses as I don't have an accurate gauge for that range, just the one on the pump). No rim strikes when I would have expected it before, can drive the tires hard into corners with no sidewall collapse. So far, so good. I still have plans to be in Moab for a couple of days this coming week and that's where I figure to really get a feel for things.
    "The plural of anecdote is not data." -- Attributed to various people in a variety of forms, but always worth remembering...

  194. #194
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    New Vittoria Mezcal TNT XC-Trail tyres are easier to mount than those they made few years ago. I still needed apply quite a lot of force and curse a lot, but other than the set of tyre levers I didn't need anything else. Unlike my old tyres which pretty much needed two sets of hands with iron grip to mount. Good thing that I didn't have a single tyre issue during 2 years of racing with the same tyres. I would have been ****ed if I had a flat during a race even if I had an inner tube with me.

  195. #195
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    So i was on the rekon race 2.35 tires but because I don't trust them enough to ride some races I switched back to the Pirelli Scorpion M and H lite version. Both 2.2 at 660gr vs 750gr of the Rekon Race.

    I already have good experiences with the Pirelli Scorpion M lite front and rear. Last long, good grip in dry rocky, dry sandy, wet roots, mud, and wet rocks. And it nailed it all!

    Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-G973F met Tapatalk

  196. #196
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ptor View Post
    I still have plans to be in Moab for a couple of days this coming week and that's where I figure to really get a feel for things.
    While it was't the extensive test I had envisioned for my tires with the PTN R-Evolution inserts, it was something. I rode about 15 miles of Moab trails (Mustang, Getaway, 7up, Whirlwind). My tentative conclusion is that the enhanced control stemming from the combined lower pressure (without rim strikes) for traction and the reasonable precise steering due to good sidewall support at that pressure is a boon. I hadn't ridden those trails before and did much better on Strava segments than I have previously on similar "new, semi-technical trails" (for me) -- top 30% in a few thousand unique user times on the downhill segments (usually right around 50%) and my standard top 15% or better on uphill segments. I also lost only a few seconds to my riding partner on any given section, a solid Cat1 in his day, where I formerly would have lost tens of seconds. So, I'm all in on the PTN R-Evolution inserts -- despite the hassle of mounting. The Racing Ray 2.3 front and Bontrager XR1 2.2 rear were just fine on that terrain -- I guess you could say they felt like they rode like much wider tires at the sub 20 psi with PTN R-Evolution inserts.
    "The plural of anecdote is not data." -- Attributed to various people in a variety of forms, but always worth remembering...

  197. #197
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    Ordered some Vittorias based on good experiences from last season. Wouldn't mind if they were a tad lighter, sidewall colour has changed a bit and weight has gone up a slightly from last year.

    Might try Continental Race King (R) & Cross King (F) Bernstein Edition in the summer when it's dry, at least weights are tempting and local terrains are quite tame.

  198. #198
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    They are heavy and from my experience run small. I got a2.35 barzo and it was just a bit bigger that 2.25 rocket Ron (and 125 grams heavier). I sold it.

  199. #199
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rist View Post
    New Vittoria Mezcal TNT XC-Trail tyres are easier to mount than those they made few years ago. I still needed apply quite a lot of force and curse a lot, but other than the set of tyre levers I didn't need anything else. Unlike my old tyres which pretty much needed two sets of hands with iron grip to mount. Good thing that I didn't have a single tyre issue during 2 years of racing with the same tyres. I would have been ****ed if I had a flat during a race even if I had an inner tube with me.
    Funny, Iíve mounted Vittoriaís this year and also Contiís. Compared to the Contiís the Vittoriaís were a cake-walk to install!


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  200. #200
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    Quote Originally Posted by B_H View Post
    Ordered some Vittorias based on good experiences from last season. Wouldn't mind if they were a tad lighter, sidewall colour has changed a bit and weight has gone up a slightly from last year.

    Might try Continental Race King (R) & Cross King (F) Bernstein Edition in the summer when it's dry, at least weights are tempting and local terrains are quite tame.
    Yeah, Vittorias are not light at all.
    I also found these weights a bit off, though.
    They are pretty much the same weight as my 2.25" Barzo (745g) and Mezcal (735g), which are XC-Trail (reinforced sidewalls).

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