Why Men Quit and Women Don't- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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  2. #2
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    unfortunately I've used up for free views for NYT for the month Seems like a good read . I'll have to check it out next month (unless someone can cut and paste the article to the thread. )
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  3. #3
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    Interesting article, although I have one bone to pick....

    "One theory is that women handle cold weather better because their bodies naturally have more fat. In general, it’s true that the essential body fat level — one you can’t medically dip beneath — hovers around 3 percent for men and 12 percent for women (when it comes to racing, breasts aren’t exactly performance-enhancing, but they’re still usually part of the deal). And the insulating subcutaneous fat layer under the skin is twice as thick in women as in men."

    This insinuation of equating boobs with fat straight across is stupid. There are GLANDS in there, and some of us have more than others. I know that some women gain/loose fat in this location but this is not at all guaranteed... even when I get down to a fairly low body fat % my overhang doesn't decrease enough to change my bra size, and conversely when my weight goes up that doesn't change much either.

    Ladies: you can be a very fit athlete and still have boobs. Or not. Either way, take 'em for a ride because staying inside is boring!
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  4. #4
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    I started to read this but it was pretty long and I gave up.
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Travis Bickle View Post
    I started to read this but it was pretty long and I gave up.
    Just jump to the end: "So the simplest explanation is not based on gender at all. <<...>>" :-)

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Travis Bickle View Post
    I started to read this but it was pretty long and I gave up.
    lol
    This post is a natural product. Variances in spelling & grammar should be appreciated as part of its character & beauty.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by verslowrdr View Post
    This insinuation of equating boobs with fat straight across is stupid.
    And the people in question are long-distance runners, who are fairly skinny irrespective of gender.

    I imagine there could be many possible explanations as to why men or women perform or respond differently in similar situations but you know what, I don't care. I am happy simply to acknowledge that men and woman are different, despite a vocal and influential minority of nut cases who insist they are not.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by chazpat View Post
    lol
    I started to read this but it was pretty long and I gave up.

    LOL
    TLDR; Why Men Quit and Women Don't
    F*ck Cancer

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  9. #9
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    Ok first off. Some Women are tough, very tough. Some Men are tough, very tough.

    Now 5% drop out rate for men and 3.8% for Women.

    Well that does not seem like much of a difference for me. Show me a race with 50% drop out rate and that is really tough (See AZTR Race for example). Of course I am not a marathon runner, but I have done really long endurance events. Most of this about mental toughness rather than physical. If you are mentally tough you will tend to finish. If you are not you will tend to take the quick way out. I believe this has less to do with gender and more to do with the person. My ex-wife would wimp out on things like this at the drop of a hat. My girlfriend however prides herself on never DNF any mtn bike race she has entered. Different people, same gender.

    If the drop out rate were 5% for women and 40% for me this might be a story. Since they are so darn close I consider it down the toughness of the people who started. Not their gender.
    Joe
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  10. #10
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    If at first you don't succeed, try try again, then give up. There's no point in being an idiot about it.

  11. #11
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    For anyone who could not access the article:

    This year’s Boston Marathon, with its horizontal rain and freezing temperatures, wasn’t just an ordeal unfolding amid some of the worst weather in decades.

    It was also an example of women’s ability to persevere in exceptionally miserable circumstances. In good weather, men typically drop out of this race at lower rates than women do, but this year, women fared better. Why, in these terrible conditions, were women so much better at enduring?

    The results for Boston, one of the most competitive marathons in the world, were doleful this year: The winning times for both men and women were the slowest since the 1970s, and the midrace dropout rate was up 50 percent overall from last year.

    But finishing rates varied significantly by gender. For men, the dropout rate was up almost 80 percent from 2017; for women, it was up only about 12 percent. Overall, 5 percent of men dropped out, versus just 3.8 percent of women. The trend was true at the elite level, too.

    I’ve run the Boston Marathon twice, including in 2013, the year it was bombed. I’m often tempted to drop out of races, but I never actually have. Pushing through affords plenty of time to question the wisdom of prolonging what is sometimes extreme pain. I’m always relieved when I finish — but I never really consider why I bother.

    This marathon made me wonder if gender might play a role. You can find a whole range of theories on why women out-endured men in Boston — body fat composition, decision-making tendencies, pain tolerance, even childbirth — but none offers a perfect answer.

    One theory is that women handle cold weather better because their bodies naturally have more fat. In general, it’s true that the essential body fat level — one you can’t medically dip beneath — hovers around 3 percent for men and 12 percent for women (when it comes to racing, breasts aren’t exactly performance-enhancing, but they’re still usually part of the deal). And the insulating subcutaneous fat layer under the skin is twice as thick in women as in men.

    But at the same race in 2012, on an unusually hot 86-degree day, women also finished at higher rates than men, the only other occasion between 2012 and 2018 when they did. So are women somehow better able to withstand extreme conditions?

    That answer could involve psychology. Endurance may feel objective, but your ability to keep going — even if it means slowing down — is often ultimately up to you.

    “When you reach the point that you can’t go on, it feels physical, like an immutable limit,” Alex Hutchinson, the author of “Endure,” told me. “But your physical limits are actually mediated by your brain. In most instances, dropping out is a decision.”

    The decision process might connect to the perception, or tolerance, of pain. Here’s a potential, if contentious, factor: Childbirth is by most accounts excruciating, and because women’s athletic and fertility peaks are close or overlap, a lot of the female marathoners who race Boston have also given birth.

    Keira D’Amato, a 33-year-old real-estate agent in Richmond, Va., ran much of the race with Sarah Sellers, a nurse who went on to take second place, until D’Amato’s vision blurred and her awareness wavered. She slowed to a fraction of her original pace, so focused on reaching the finish line that she didn’t even know it when she finally got there, in 46th place.

    Comparing her experience in the race to the births of her children, D’Amato told me, “I never blacked out during labor.” (Of course, dropping out while giving birth is not an option.)

    She said she had finished every race she started and added, “That wasn’t going to be the first time.”

    Differences could also lie in other decision-making traits. For example, women are known to pace themselves better than men, an advantage in any context but especially helpful in the cold, when a large shift in pace could affect one’s ability to regulate body temperature.

    “Men tend to start races more aggressively and take a higher risk approach, so they’re more likely to blow up in the second half,” Hutchinson said. “If you hit the wall at 18 miles in that terrible rainstorm and you’re wearing 7 pounds of sopping wet clothing, there’s a heightened risk you’re going to drop out.”

    Women may also be better able to recalibrate their behavior and expectations based on circumstances (even if that doesn’t mean making the more self-preservationist decision to quit altogether).

    “Among the athletes I’ve coached, I think I’ve had more women where when it’s bad, they can blow up but they’ll still finish the race, whereas men drop out,” said the elite distance coach Steve Magness. “Women generally seem better able to adjust their goals in the moment, whereas men will see their race as more black or white, succeed or fail, and if it’s fail, why keep going?”

    Americans in the elite races provided some evidence. The men’s favorite Galen Rupp chased the lead pack until he dropped out around the 20-mile mark with hypothermia; in the women’s race the favorites Molly Huddle and Shalane Flanagan dropped to paces much slower than their goal but still finished. In the early miles, the women worked together; Desiree Linden, another favorite, struggled and told Flanagan she thought she might quit, but hung in to support her teammates a few more miles for the American victory they sought. Then Linden bounced back and won.

    “There’s a biological and social tendency for women to tend toward caregiving,” said Adam Grant, the psychologist and host of the TED podcast WorkLife. “So what I would expect to happen is, when the going gets tough, the men either quit or they double down and say, ‘I’m just going to push through,’ whereas women are more likely to reach out to runners next to them and offer support and seek support. Sharing pain and being part of a group can make it easier to withstand pain.”

    Of course, the people who run Boston are a self-selecting group. Women are often discouraged from being athletic and competitive, so the female runners who made it to Boston had already overcome more social obstacles than men. They may simply be tougher, and this was a year when toughness worked.

    So the simplest explanation is not based on gender at all. This Boston Marathon was ideal for people who thrive in adversity. Top spots for men and women went to amateur runners who juggle training in non-ideal circumstances around work and family. The men’s winner, Yuki Kawauchi, is a high school administrator in Japan; Boston was already his fourth marathon, and fourth victory, of this year.

    “For me,” Kawauchi explained after he won, “these were the best conditions possible.”

    Lindsay Crouse is a senior staff editor for Op-Docs at The Times.

    Follow The New York Times Opinion section on Facebook and Twitter (@NYTopinion), and sign up for the Opinion Today newsletter.

    A version of this article appears in print on April 22, 2018, on Page SR4 of the New York edition with the headline: Why Men Quit and Women Don’t.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoePAz View Post
    Ok first off.

    Now 5% drop out rate for men and 3.8% for Women.

    Well that does not seem like much of a difference for me.
    I had the same thought, but the previous sentence was interesting: For men, the dropout rate was up almost 80 percent from 2017; for women, it was up only about 12 percent.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtbxplorer View Post
    I had the same thought, but the previous sentence was interesting: For men, the dropout rate was up almost 80 percent from 2017; for women, it was up only about 12 percent.
    Yeah, but when you are looking at going numbers around 5% and 4% it is not really all that large. Plus I wonder if drop outs only considered those starting and not finishing vs those that might have not even gone to the start line. Remember if 10 men drop out last year and 20 drop out this year that is a 100% increase, but if 11 women drop out this year, but 10 did last year that is a 10% increase. How much of that is up to chance and random variation? Lot of ways to look at the data and 80% increase vs 12% increase does not tell the story really.
    Joe
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoePAz View Post
    Yeah, but when you are looking at going numbers around 5% and 4% it is not really all that large. Plus I wonder if drop outs only considered those starting and not finishing vs those that might have not even gone to the start line. Remember if 10 men drop out last year and 20 drop out this year that is a 100% increase, but if 11 women drop out this year, but 10 did last year that is a 10% increase. How much of that is up to chance and random variation? Lot of ways to look at the data and 80% increase vs 12% increase does not tell the story really.
    It would be helpful if they provided the actual numbers. But we do know that its a huge race, so if we add some zeros to your example: if 1000 men drop out last year and 2000 drop out this year that is a 100% increase, but if 1100 women drop out this year, but 1000 did last year that is a 10% increase. I think gives a little more realistic picture and starts to look a lot less like chance or random variation to me.

  15. #15
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    Why, in these terrible conditions, were women so much better at enduring?
    Is it something about that lot of so called men in US became not actually Men?..
    OK

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