The Great Supergo Bait and Switch- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Upset The Great Supergo Bait and Switch

    After reading the posts on the Panaracer Fire Pro tires at Supergo for $14.98, I decided to call Supergo and make sure they were the 127 tpi Japanese models. After getting cut off once, customer service transferred me to a technical service person. He said they were the 127 tpi and stated "don't worry their the good ones". I then placed an order for four tires. They arrived and I opened the box and first noticed that the tires were not in individual boxes but were zipped tied in pairs. I looked at the side walls and noticed that they did not have the large white chalky lettering that was pictured on the Supergo website and was like the 127 tpi tires that were on my bike. I looked closely at the label and it said 60 tpi. I called Supergo and the customer service lady said that there had been a misunderstanding and the tires they received were the 60 tpi Tiawanese models instead of the 127 tpi Japanese models. I told the lady that I had verified with their tech service people that the tires were in fact the Japanese model. I told her that I was returning them and then had to fight with her to get my original shipping costs covered.

    My previous experiences with Supergo had been pretty good and then I saw the North Carolina address on the invoice and remembered that Performance now owned Supergo. IMO, Performance could screw up a one car funeral. I have tried repeatedly to get the email address for the owner of Performance and have not been successful. But come to think of it, if I worked for Performance and was part of that nightmare, I wouldn't give it to anyone either.

  2. #2
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    Performance isn't that bad. End of story. Plenty of people on hear whine and moan about how bad Performance treated them etc, but I guarantee you that these same people are doing flips for joy when they find a 20% off coupon on top of a sale item. I have ordered from Performance many times and have yet to see them screw up. Maybe I am just that lucky, because with all the bad posts about them you'd think if you ordered a set of XTR Wheels, they might mistakenly send you a tube with the word XTR handwritten on the side. Let's grow up. Supergo has been owned by Performance for approximately 3 years now, and this is common knowledge if you read the mtbr boards at all.

    As for your tires, that really sucks, but correct me if I am wrong but is $14.98/tire a bad price? I know they lied, and for that they should give you some concessions but for a Fire XC 60 TPI or otherwise I really don't think that $14.98 is too bad of a price. Furthermore, this has been a topic that has been discussed on this board in recent weeks, so that should have caused some concern. But the good thing here is that they did give you your money back. I just purchased an item from REI Outlet and not 2 days after I got it, they lowered the price. After calling them they told me tough luck, but that is the way it is. If I like the new price buy another to stock up, but they won't give me the difference back.Now that is how to lose a customer, quickly. At least Supergo gave you your $ back + refunded your shipping.

    FYI, Jenson USA sells the 127 TPI Fire XC's for $22.00

  3. #3
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    response

    Man, I'm glad you haven't had any problems with Performance but according to your own reply you state that plenty of people whine and moan about Performance. It would appear that plenty of people have a problem with Performance. I order a substantial amount of merchandise off the internet and have come to expect that on-line vendors deliver the merchandise that they advertise and then bill my credit card the same amount that was indicated on the invoice that I agreed to pay during the transaction. In this case, I took the time to personally contact Supergo to determine the merchandise was in fact what I wanted and they confirmed that it was. I then received something that was totally different than what was committed. That may be acceptable to you but it's not to me. In addition, I have had problems with performance billing my credit card for amounts that are different than the invoice that was emailed to me upon confirmation of my order. This is not acceptable to me. Believe it or not I am a Team Performance member and have had more problems with that then I can count. I have even had a situation where it costs me more to buy an item as a Team Performance member than it would for me to purchase it without loggin in as a member. Go figure that.

    I agree that the 20% off coupons are a good deal, but according to your logic, if you get a good deal it doesn't matter what you get. Personally I would have never order the Taiwan tires at any price. You *****ed about REI. I have ordered thousands of dollars of merchandise from REI and REI outlet. I have never had a problem with them, and their customer service is next to none. In fact in your situation, they delivered exactly what you ordered at the price you ordered it for. I don't think they have any obligation to notify you that a better deal will be available in the future. Based on my experience with REI, I am quite surprised that they didn't give you the price.

  4. #4
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    I order from both Super go and performance as well as several other cycling related websites. I have been pretty lucky but recently supergo advertised a raceface 9 speed chainring special. What they sent was an 8 speed set for the same cost as the 9 speed. When I caslled to complain the customer service dept told me there was not much diffrence in the two and that it would operate just the same as the 9 speed rings.I sent it back and received full credit. I also orderd a Manitou scarab elite 100mm fork for $189.00 the order processed and I received a confirmation number. The next day I received an email stating the item was no longer available.

    Performance has screwed up countless orders and I have called their tech dept for various reasons the latest being specs for a bottom brackett for my new salsa caballero. The guy assured me of what I needed and I orderd and got the wrong size.

    The way I look at it is I'm usually saving 30-40% instead of going to a LBS because I do all my own building and repairs. I put up with it and avoid those mail order companies that mess me up . There are a bunch of good web based sellers and I just take my buisness to them.

  5. #5
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    The 60 TPI's aren't bad at all

    I rode a pair of 60 TPIs for almost 2 full seasons before I put a rock through the rear in Moab. It was ready to be swapped out anyways. Probably had 1000 miles on them. They were great while they lasted.

  6. #6
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    Why are you so down on the 60 TPI's? They are not that bad... Also the Supergo site has the 127 TPI Fire XC's for 22/tire. That is approximately the same as Jenson or anywhere else. BTW people have in other recent threads talked about this same problem. You say that you spend 1,000's of dollars online on merchandise, if you and all the others who have problems speak with their wallets then Performance will listen. If you don't like a shop don't shop there, bottom line. If aggregately Performance performs that badly then they'll have to change or lose their customer base, they are not the evil empire. Thanks for reading my thoughts.

  7. #7
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    higher thread counts are meaningless. Only panaracer and onza ever really made a big deal out of advertizing them. There are lots of foldable kevlar tires with low thread counts.
    I don't post to generate business for myself or make like I'm better than sliced bread

  8. #8
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    I spent $1000 at performance over the past month. Returned some stuff, kept others. no problems. The credit card charge issue is funny, but its been in my favor thus far (by no more than 50 cents).

  9. #9
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    I am sorry, but it is hard to type when you laughing at some of these responses. First of all the preceived quality of the product is not the issue. If you purchased a new car and the dealer told you that it had a six cylinder and then when you got home you found out it had a four cylinder, then you should be happy because some people feel that four cylinders are just as good as the six. Pleeeese. Or better yet, you should be happy because it still seems like a good deal. The guy wanted a specific tire and went to the trouble to call and verify that it was indeed the right tire. Regardless of what you think, he didn't want a 60 tpi. When they sent him the wrong one, he had a right to be upset and gripe. Again, regardless of how you perceive the kind of deal that he got. If you get something that you didn't want, it's rarely is a good deal.

    MHO

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by d-mon
    I am sorry, but it is hard to type when you laughing at some of these responses. First of all the preceived quality of the product is not the issue. If you purchased a new car and the dealer told you that it had a six cylinder and then when you got home you found out it had a four cylinder, then you should be happy because some people feel that four cylinders are just as good as the six. Pleeeese. Or better yet, you should be happy because it still seems like a good deal. The guy wanted a specific tire and went to the trouble to call and verify that it was indeed the right tire. Regardless of what you think, he didn't want a 60 tpi. When they sent him the wrong one, he had a right to be upset and gripe. Again, regardless of how you perceive the kind of deal that he got. If you get something that you didn't want, it's rarely is a good deal.

    MHO
    Yeah - he didn't get what he thought he was going to get.

    Big freaking surprise.

    Anyone who has ever even glanced in passing at an online message board knows that people have problems with Supergo and Performance on a regular basis.

    If you look at Supergo's website they have 2 versions of the Panaracer Fire XC Pro available.

    One at $22.95 that states it is a 127 TPI tire.
    One at $14.95 that makes no claim as to what the TPI is.

    He calls and asks if the Panaracer Fires are 127TPI. The Customer service rep (who is probably many miles from the actual tires) looks up on the computer and says that "Yes. The P.F.X.C. Pros are 127TPI".

    And he gets 60 TPI in his order.

    Big Freaking Surprise.

    Welcome to the wonderful world of online commerce. If you want to get all anal about getting the correct TPI on your tires, quit being a cheapass and go to the local store. Pay your $49.95 per tire.

    If you want to be a cheapskate, be aware that you are not always going to get what you expect, and be prepared to send them back as necessary. They'll take them - chalk up the difference in shipping as a learning experience.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by forkboy
    Yeah - he didn't get what he thought he was going to get.

    Big freaking surprise.

    Anyone who has ever even glanced in passing at an online message board knows that people have problems with Supergo and Performance on a regular basis.

    If you look at Supergo's website they have 2 versions of the Panaracer Fire XC Pro available.

    One at $22.95 that states it is a 127 TPI tire.
    One at $14.95 that makes no claim as to what the TPI is.

    He calls and asks if the Panaracer Fires are 127TPI. The Customer service rep (who is probably many miles from the actual tires) looks up on the computer and says that "Yes. The P.F.X.C. Pros are 127TPI".

    And he gets 60 TPI in his order.

    Big Freaking Surprise.

    Welcome to the wonderful world of online commerce. If you want to get all anal about getting the correct TPI on your tires, quit being a cheapass and go to the local store. Pay your $49.95 per tire.

    If you want to be a cheapskate, be aware that you are not always going to get what you expect, and be prepared to send them back as necessary. They'll take them - chalk up the difference in shipping as a learning experience.

    Dude, take a minute and read the name of the forum that your in. Where to find the best deals. Huh, I guess that equates to being a cheapskate. Now I'm laughing. Big Freaking Surprise.

  12. #12
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    Jeez, you pepole are harsh.

    Shouldn't a person be able to expect that they will get what they ordered, and at the price they ordered it for?

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dangri
    Dude, take a minute and read the name of the forum that your in. Where to find the best deals. Huh, I guess that equates to being a cheapskate. Now I'm laughing. Big Freaking Surprise.

    Oh - I'm not the biggest tightwad I've met, but I'm damn close. If I pay more than 50% of the retail price for an item, I get pissed. There's nothing wrong with being a cheapskate, but when you are getting bargain basement prices on items, you cannot expect to receive the same level of support and service that you would get if you were purchasing the item for MSRP. The manufacturer is usually taking a loss on those items, and the retailer has a very tight profit margin.

    Sometimes you get lucky, but most of the time it is a real gamble as to whether you will actually come out ahead in a transaction like that.

    It's not this guy in particular, but I just have gotten really annoyed by people on the forums ranting and raving about how they are a chiseling, weasely shopper tring to nickle and dime every cent off the price with "stolen" coupons, and trying to get free shipping etc. Then it doesn't go as planned, and they get all butt-hurt about how the retailer is screwing them over.

    There is nothing wrong with those tactics- I use them all the time, but when they don't go the way you expected, you have to accept that it is all part of the game.

    Besides - if you chisel every dime of profit out of a retailer, eventually they will go out of business, and there will only be the outrageously overpriced LBS to go to.

    I know exactly what forum this is. Where are the Best Deals? The Best Deal is sometimes different than the cheapest price. If you are overly concerned with the TPI of your tires, apparently you should take more into consideration than just the bottom line if you want "the best deal"..
    Last edited by forkboy; 10-29-2004 at 06:58 AM.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryukyu
    Jeez, you pepole are harsh.

    Shouldn't a person be able to expect that they will get what they ordered, and at the price they ordered it for?
    Sure they should - but when they don't know 100% that what they are ordering is what they think they are ordering, they shouldn't be surprised when the wrong thing showed up.

    I'm sure Supergo will be more than willing to take the tires back, and let him pay the extra $7 a tire for the 127 TPI versions.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by forkboy
    Oh - I'm not the biggest tightwad I've met, but I'm damn close. If I pay more than 50% of the retail price for an item, I get pissed. There's nothing wrong with being a cheapskate, but when you are getting bargain basement prices on items, you cannot expect to receive the same level of support and service that you would get if you were purchasing the item for MSRP. The manufacturer is usually taking a loss on those items, and the retailer has a very tight profit margin.

    Sometimes you get lucky, but most of the time it is a real gamble as to whether you will actually come out ahead in a transaction like that.

    It's not this guy in particular, but I just have gotten really annoyed by people on the forums ranting and raving about how they are a chiseling, weasely shopper tring to nickle and dime every cent off the price with "stolen" coupons, and trying to get free shipping etc. Then it doesn't go as planned, and they get all butt-hurt about how the retailer is screwing them over.

    There is nothing wrong with those tactics- I use them all the time, but when they don't go the way you expected, you have to accept that it is all part of the game.

    Besides - if you chisel every dime of profit out of a retailer, eventually they will go out of business, and there will only be the outrageously overpriced LBS to go to.

    I know exactly what forum this is. Where are the Best Deals? The Best Deal is sometimes different than the cheapest price. If you are overly concerned with the TPI of your tires, apparently you should take more into consideration than just the bottom line if you want "the best deal"..

    I absolutely love your logic: It's okay if I get screwed by one of these on-line vendors because I was trying to screw them. No one forces vendors to offer discounts or coupons. They do it of their own free will and you want to know why? They still make money off of the items they sell. It's a concious marketing decision.

    I didn't chisel anyone. Supergo offered the tires for sell at a good price. I called them to verify that they were the ones I wanted. They said they were and I bought them. Where you get the idea that I was trying to chisel them out of something is beyond me.

    By the way the TPI really is not the issue. One of the tires is made in Taiwan and one is made in Japan. There have been mulitple threads on this fourm concerning the Taiwan tires. I'm glad you had good luck with them. Apparently a lot of other people didn't.

    You ought to post your email on this forum. I'm sure a lot of vendors read this forum. I would if I were them. They would love to have you on the top of their mailing list. Regardless of what he orders, send this guy whatever we want. It will be okay with him, he thinks he is trying to screw us. Unbelievable.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by forkboy
    Sure they should - but when they don't know 100% that what they are ordering is what they think they are ordering, they shouldn't be surprised when the wrong thing showed up.

    I'm sure Supergo will be more than willing to take the tires back, and let him pay the extra $7 a tire for the 127 TPI versions.
    That's why I called Supergo, I wanted to make sure that what I was ordering was exactly what I wanted. They said it was. Had I blindly placed an order without calling them, I would buy your arguement. That's it for me, I'm tired of argueing with someone who makes no sense.

  17. #17
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    I agree with dangri. Nothing wrong with trying to chase a good deal. But temper your expectations accordingly. Why would you believe what some guy on the phone tells you? I'm not saying its OK for Supergo to lie to their customers, I'm saying that when you pay bargain basement prices, you gotta know that things are going to get screwed up sometimes. When they do, you deal with it. If you can't deal with it, go pay a reputable retailer a fair markup for good service.

    If you don't pay for service, why would you be surprised and upset when you don't get good service?

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dangri
    I absolutely love your logic: It's okay if I get screwed by one of these on-line vendors because I was trying to screw them. No one forces vendors to offer discounts or coupons. They do it of their own free will and you want to know why? They still make money off of the items they sell. It's a concious marketing decision.

    I didn't chisel anyone. Supergo offered the tires for sell at a good price. I called them to verify that they were the ones I wanted. They said they were and I bought them. Where you get the idea that I was trying to chisel them out of something is beyond me.

    By the way the TPI really is not the issue. One of the tires is made in Taiwan and one is made in Japan. There have been mulitple threads on this fourm concerning the Taiwan tires. I'm glad you had good luck with them. Apparently a lot of other people didn't.

    You ought to post your email on this forum. I'm sure a lot of vendors read this forum. I would if I were them. They would love to have you on the top of their mailing list. Regardless of what he orders, send this guy whatever we want. It will be okay with him, he thinks he is trying to screw us. Unbelievable.
    How is SuperGo screwing you? If you aren't happy, send them back. You aren't screwing SuperGo. They offered the tires at that price.

    It's bargaining - not screwing. You;re trying to get the best price, they're trying to make money.

    Your mistake is that you feel entitled to receive an item you didn't pay for.

    If you pitch a fit with customer service, they may even refund you the return shipping cost.

    You are pissed that you didn't get the high quality tire for the cheap tire price. That's understandable, but you have to accept the fact that it was a mistake. They happen.

    If you want to get screwed, go buy a used car. Or even better - go buy a house, finance it over 30 years, and figure out the amount that you will actually spend over those 30 years. And count in the Mortgage insurance that you will pay to a bank that is already getting all that money anyways, and will get your house if you default..

    I've sicced the BBB on SuperGo in the past to get resolution for a valid complaint. I've sicced the FBI on a Ebay welcher to get him to send me my bike. If you have actually been screwed by a company, there are avenues to fix your problems. Your problem is that you haven't, so your only recourse is pissing and moaning on a message board.

    Good luck with those tires - Panaracers rock.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dangri
    That's why I called Supergo, I wanted to make sure that what I was ordering was exactly what I wanted. They said it was. Had I blindly placed an order without calling them, I would buy your arguement. That's it for me, I'm tired of argueing with someone who makes no sense.
    But you didn't know 100%. Knowing 100% would be taking them off the shelf, taking them to the counter, running your credit card, putting them in a bag and taking them home. Even that is still only about 95%. Buying anything online is assuming - not knowing - that you will get what you ordered.

  20. #20
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    I'd kill myself over the whole transaction.......................







    of course I tend to overreact
    I'm small where it counts

  21. #21
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    I just go to the SuperGo store: see, they sell all the Fires at the sale price and don't differentiate between the two versions of the foldable, tubed tire when you're in the store.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by forkboy
    How is SuperGo screwing you? If you aren't happy, send them back. You aren't screwing SuperGo. They offered the tires at that price.

    It's bargaining - not screwing. You;re trying to get the best price, they're trying to make money.

    Your mistake is that you feel entitled to receive an item you didn't pay for.

    If you pitch a fit with customer service, they may even refund you the return shipping cost.

    You are pissed that you didn't get the high quality tire for the cheap tire price. That's understandable, but you have to accept the fact that it was a mistake. They happen.

    If you want to get screwed, go buy a used car. Or even better - go buy a house, finance it over 30 years, and figure out the amount that you will actually spend over those 30 years. And count in the Mortgage insurance that you will pay to a bank that is already getting all that money anyways, and will get your house if you default..

    I've sicced the BBB on SuperGo in the past to get resolution for a valid complaint. I've sicced the FBI on a Ebay welcher to get him to send me my bike. If you have actually been screwed by a company, there are avenues to fix your problems. Your problem is that you haven't, so your only recourse is pissing and moaning on a message board.

    Good luck with those tires - Panaracers rock.
    I guess you and I have a difference of opinion on getting screwed. So let me get this straight this is what you consider bargaining. I call a store and ask them to clarify that what I am buying "on line" is a certain type of item and they verify to me that yes the $14.95 tires are the 127 TPI tires (and btw I talked to one of their technical people not the employees who take orders). And when I receive the 66 TPI tires (as you refer to them as the cheap tires) then I can consider myself "bargained with". I consider myself screwed. They represented something to me that wasn't true and I now am out my time and effort to send the tires back. Again, you have implied that I was out to screw them. They listed panaracer tires for 14.95, which I would consider to be a good price. I called and verified that these were the tires that I was interested in and then bought them. I recently bought some Continental cyclocross tires from Performance for around 16 bucks. I don't know why they sold these tires so cheap but I'm sure they had a good reason. If they are willing to do it, then I'll take them up on it. I don't consider myself chiseling them. If they don't want to sell them for 16 bucks, then don't offer them for sale.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dangri
    I guess you and I have a difference of opinion on getting screwed. So let me get this straight this is what you consider bargaining. I call a store and ask them to clarify that what I am buying "on line" is a certain type of item and they verify to me that yes the $14.95 tires are the 127 TPI tires (and btw I talked to one of their technical people not the employees who take orders). And when I receive the 66 TPI tires (as you refer to them as the cheap tires) then I can consider myself "bargained with". I consider myself screwed. They represented something to me that wasn't true and I now am out my time and effort to send the tires back. Again, you have implied that I was out to screw them. They listed panaracer tires for 14.95, which I would consider to be a good price. I called and verified that these were the tires that I was interested in and then bought them. I recently bought some Continental cyclocross tires from Performance for around 16 bucks. I don't know why they sold these tires so cheap but I'm sure they had a good reason. If they are willing to do it, then I'll take them up on it. I don't consider myself chiseling them. If they don't want to sell them for 16 bucks, then don't offer them for sale.
    I haven't implied a thing - don't put words in my mouth. What you choose to read in to my statements is your own business.

    Basically what it boils down to is that if you are going to be this uptight about every online transaction you make that goes a little differently than expected, you are going to feel like you are getting "bargained" in the ass every time you turn around.

    Good luck

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