WTB Frequency i23 AM wheelset: alternative to Flow rims- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    WTB Frequency i23 AM wheelset: alternative to Flow rims

    I just completed a 26er AM wheelset with the new WTB Frequency i23 rims (UST/TLR profile), Wheelsmith DB 14 spokes, and CK ISO hubs for a customer in Toronto. Total wheelset rotating weight: 1,850g. I am completely impressed by the quality of these new rims: 469g, 120kgf max. spoke tension, very nice design details. As I finished the build process, the wheels had the feel of having developed high strength, and built up very true.

    Next i23 wheelset presently underway is a 29er set for a customer in Eugene.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails WTB Frequency i23 AM wheelset: alternative to Flow rims-wtb_frequency_i23_db14_ck_iso_front_side_mtbr.jpg  

    WTB Frequency i23 AM wheelset: alternative to Flow rims-wtb_frequency_i23_db14_ck_iso_rear_top_mtbr.jpg  

    Last edited by 4slomo; 12-08-2011 at 09:18 PM. Reason: Discrepancy in published weight for 26" rim. Revised weight is back calculated.
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  2. #2
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    I'd say they are definitely an alternative to the Flow. Given they have a true UST rim profile and they are eyeleted some would say they may even be an improvement (though my Charger Expert wheels with BST rims work just fine with UST spec beads).

    I'll be interested to see how the new Pancenti TL28's compare as well.

  3. #3
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    With the Frequency rims, WTB eliminated eyelets for directionally drilled and radiused spoke nipple holes. They are getting even better durability in this manner.
    Last edited by 4slomo; 11-12-2011 at 07:47 AM.
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  4. #4
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    Does the "23" refer to the internal width of these rims, or outer width? (WTB's website is lacking in critical information)
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  6. #6
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    Yes, i23stands for internal width 23mm.

    Quote Originally Posted by bholwell View Post
    Does the "23" refer to the internal width of these rims, or outer width? (WTB's website is lacking in critical information)
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  7. #7
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    What about the i19? Anybody have built those rims for xc racing ?
    thanks

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    UST bead, what taspe or rim strip do they recomend for tubless use?

  9. #9
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    just stans yellow tape i beleive.

  10. #10
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    25 mm wide tape such as Stans is recommended for the i23.

    Quote Originally Posted by Flboy View Post
    UST bead, what taspe or rim strip do they recomend for tubless use?
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by italianbike74 View Post
    What about the i19? Anybody have built those rims for xc racing ?
    thanks
    just picked up a set of CK hubs laced to 29er wtb frequency i19's pretty darn light. however i didn't get to weigh in grams but under 4lbs for the set w/o cassette.

  12. #12
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    29er AM Single Speed WTB i23 Wheelset!

    I just completed a 29er AM Single Speed wheelset with the new WTB Frequency i23 rims (UST/TLR profile), Wheelsmith DB 14 spokes, DT Swiss 350 front hub and CK ISO SS rear hub for a customer in Eugene. Total wheelset rotating weight: 1,990g. I am completely impressed by the quality of these new rims: 503g, 120kgf max. spoke tension, very nice design details. As I finished the build process, the wheels had the feel of having developed high strength, and built up very true.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails WTB Frequency i23 AM wheelset: alternative to Flow rims-wtb_frequencyi23_db14_dts350_front_side.jpg  

    WTB Frequency i23 AM wheelset: alternative to Flow rims-wtb_frequencyi23_db14_ckisoss_rear_top.jpg  

    Last edited by 4slomo; 12-04-2011 at 01:53 PM. Reason: Corrected for rim weight discrepancy
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  13. #13
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    looks good

  14. #14
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    Looks nice. How does the tubeless setup compare to Stans flow?

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    2,000 grams ain't light! WTB seems to have done a nice job with their recent rim upgrades, took them a while. But please, NEVER stop making the DD!

  16. #16
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    WTB TCS Details

    Here's a link to a WTB web page showing rim cross section UST details: TCS. The bead hook & lock design provides a more secure hold on the tire bead. The center well "on-ramp" has room for the tire beads when mounting a tire on the rim, and geometry to help the bead to move from the well to the bead lock. Just makes mounting a little easier, depending on the actual shape of the tire bead.

    Quote Originally Posted by CupOfJava View Post
    Looks nice. How does the tubeless setup compare to Stans flow?
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  17. #17
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    I designed this single speed AM wheelset for a customer with a riding weight of 225-230 pounds, it needs adequate strength to meet his requirements.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yogii View Post
    2,000 grams ain't light! WTB seems to have done a nice job with their recent rim upgrades, took them a while. But please, NEVER stop making the DD!
    Last edited by 4slomo; 11-18-2011 at 10:52 PM.
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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yogii View Post
    2,000 grams ain't light! WTB seems to have done a nice job with their recent rim upgrades, took them a while. But please, NEVER stop making the DD!
    It's pretty light for a 29er AM wheelset with CK hubs. An identical wheelset with Flows would have weighed approx. 100g more.
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  19. #19
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    Where did you purchase new rims WTB (FREQUENCY i23 26)?
    I could not find them on sale in any online store.
    What is the technology of "4D Drilling"? About her writing WTB in the specification to the rim.

  20. #20
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    Any WTB dealer can sell WTB rims, and I am one of probably many dealers. I may have been lucky enough to build the first ones commercially. The Dealer Locator portion of WTB's website has a message saying it is temporarily unavailable. The International Distributors webpage directory is working. The WTB online store web pages don't appear to have been updated yet with the new rims. The rims should be showing up on the online stores soon, as they have carried all of the WTB products in the past.

    The 4D drilling is angled drilling with each hole pointed directly towards the hub flange hole where the spoke is intended to go. This minimizes the bending stress on the spoke and nipple at the rim from otherwise less accurate alignment.

    Quote Originally Posted by zg2tn9 View Post
    Where did you purchase new rims WTB (FREQUENCY i23 26)?
    I could not find them on sale in any online store.
    What is the technology of "4D Drilling"? About her writing WTB in the specification to the rim.
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  21. #21
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    How do these compare to the Lazer TCS All Mountain Race rims?
    What about max spoke tension?

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  22. #22
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    Good question.

    In online stores you can buy both Frequency and last season WTB Laser TCS.
    The 19mminner width are both mentioned at 385g.

    Seems the new design dropped eyelets for the 4d drilling.

    Did you have the change to build with both? what is your opinion.

    Just bought a set of Laser TCS XC 32h, and are getting ready to be built with DT Revolutions 2.0-1.5-2.0 and WTB Laserdisc hubs (reusing the hubs from an old wheelset)

  23. #23
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    WTB said that they got better rim durability results using the 4D spoke hole drilling technology as compared with their previous eyeletted rims, think of this as a further refinement in their rim design. The rims have the same maximum spoke tension as the previous Laser TCS models: 120 kgf. I do like building with the Frequency rims better than the Laser TCS rims and have gotten even better results.

    Quote Originally Posted by savagemann View Post
    How do these compare to the Lazer TCS All Mountain Race rims?
    What about max spoke tension?

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  24. #24
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    I'm planning on building at wheelset with these rims in 29 inch with either Hope Pro 2 or XTR M988 hubs. Does anyone know the spoke length for these setups? All parts are yet to be ordered, so I can't measure anything myself. No info on ERD or anything on the WTB site.

  25. #25
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    I measured the ERD for the two 29er i23 rims I ordered at 599 mm each. It is always best to actually measure your rims before calculating spoke length, especially until the consistency of the ERD is established for new rim models. Hub measurements are more standardized, and manufacturer's measurements can usually be trusted.

    Quote Originally Posted by sti29 View Post
    I'm planning on building at wheelset with these rims in 29 inch with either Hope Pro 2 or XTR M988 hubs. Does anyone know the spoke length for these setups? All parts are yet to be ordered, so I can't measure anything myself. No info on ERD or anything on the WTB site.
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  26. #26
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    to 4slomo
    What is ERD (to calculate the length of the spokes) you used to WTB Frequency I-23 a diameter of 26 "? On the manufacturer's website could not find the data.

  27. #27
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    Ill post the 26er ERD tomorrow, when I am able to access my files.

    Quote Originally Posted by zg2tn9 View Post
    to 4slomo
    What is ERD (to calculate the length of the spokes) you used to WTB Frequency I-23 a diameter of 26 "? On the manufacturer's website could not find the data.
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  28. #28
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    I looked up somewhere it was 535 for the 26".
    I think i saw it in a catalog.
    But its better to measure it for real.

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  29. #29
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    Width...

    As above, I assume the inner rim width is 23mm.

    What about the outer width?

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miker J View Post
    As above, I assume the inner rim width is 23mm.

    What about the outer width?
    Height 19.5mm
    Internal width 23mm
    External width 28mm
    Weight 455g

    Information from the directory WTB 2012

  31. #31
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    Thanks....

    Quote Originally Posted by zg2tn9 View Post
    Height 19.5mm
    Internal width 23mm
    External width 28mm
    Weight 455g

    Information from the directory WTB 2012


    So the question will be, how are these rims going to compare to the Flows - being just as wide and about 70g lighter per rim.

    Time will hopefully tell.

    My biggest question will be the this rims ability to hook up with non-UST tires. For example, I really like Kenda non-UST tires and they mount up perfectly with Stans.

    Can anyone comment on the bead-tire interface differs between the WTB and Stan's?

  32. #32
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    Frequency i23 26er ERD

    I measured the ERD for the two 26er i23 rims I ordered at 537 mm each. It is always best to actually measure your rims before calculating spoke length, especially until the consistency of the ERD is established for new rim models. Hub measurements are more standardized, and manufacturer's measurements can usually be trusted.

    Read through the whole thread for more info on these rims.

    Quote Originally Posted by 4slomo View Post
    I'll post the 26er ERD tomorrow, when I am able to access my files.
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  33. #33
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    Can anyone comment on the bead-tire interface differs between the WTB and Stan's?
    I replaced a worn out non-UST 2.35 Kenda Nevegal on my rear wheel(Stan's Flow rim) with a WTB 2.3 TCS Weirwolf. I mounted it with a floor pump and it sealed up much quicker than the Kenda. I think the WTB Weirwolf stopped leaking air after one day. Seems to have comparable traction in dry, rocky conditions as the Kenda. I haven't rolled it yet, so the bead hookup seems to be fine. The sidewall does say something like, "Warning: read the owners manual at wtb.com before mounting", but I couldn't find any info about the Weirwolf at the WTB website. I'm currently running it at 35 lbs, and I weigh about 235 lbs with gear.

    The WTB does however look much narrower than the 2.35 Kenda Nevagal, and I think it is much heavier to boot.
    Last edited by happyriding; 08-28-2015 at 03:35 PM.

  34. #34
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    4slomo,

    Would you ever build wheels with straight gauge spokes for heavier riders? Why or why not?

  35. #35
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    Check out post #16, and the link to the WTB website page.

    Quote Originally Posted by Miker J View Post
    ... Can anyone comment on the bead-tire interface differs between the WTB and Stan's?
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  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miker J View Post
    So the question will be, how are these rims going to compare to the Flows - being just as wide and about 70g lighter per rim.
    Flows are listed at 470g, so make that 15g per rim...
    Beware the hucking bear!

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flboy View Post
    UST bead, what taspe or rim strip do they recomend for tubless use?
    Oh frekken finally starts making some UST beaded rims at 21 or 23 mm inner width.............Oh, and that aren't boat anchors (that's directed at you Mavic).

    Although, I really have to question the 385 gr weight listed. My experience with WTB and list weights is add 20% to get the real number. Anyone put just the rim on a scale? (26 inch)

    I really don't mind the tape as long as the rim profile and bead hook are UST type. I like my UST and TR tires, but not the std tires ran tubeless.

    If all this turns out to be a decent rim for $75, I will finally be having my 2nd Lefty wheel built up.
    Last edited by ziscwg; 11-28-2011 at 11:51 AM.
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  38. #38
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    Well, one thing about mavic rims is they're pretty bomb proof. Never the lightest however. Surprised they haven't jumped in on the tubeless ready band wagon yet like WTB and DT

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by CupOfJava View Post
    Well, one thing about mavic rims is they're pretty bomb proof. Never the lightest however. Surprised they haven't jumped in on the tubeless ready band wagon yet like WTB and DT
    IIRC, Mavic did the whole UST thing and has tried to license that tech so companies can put UST on the label. So, I'm not sure if Mavic would do a tubeless ready setup or not.

    It seems as if Mavic stopped doing anything after the put out the 819 and 823 rims. Those rims don't appear to have changed in the 4 yrs I have been riding mtb. They appear to have worked a lot in their wheelsets.

    I would have been ok with an 821 rim.

    Mavics weights always seem to be without the eyelet insert thing you have to use with their 8 series rims. So, add 50 to listed weight.
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  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by PissedOffCil View Post
    Flows are listed at 470g, so make that 15g per rim...
    It becomes more pronounced for the 29er wheelsize... 50gr

  41. #41
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    The wheels pictured in the first post by 4slomo, are my wheels built by 4slomo. I met him through a mutual other hobby of hi-fi audio. A friend of mine who is a biking nut had Steve build him a set of wheels and liked the experience so I followed suit. The whole affair was top notch. He is a pleasure to deal with. Ok..enough with the sales... (I am not affiliated, just happy customer)

    The wheels have yet to be mounted. This is my first set of "hi-end" wheels. Meant for my Giant Trance X2 (with mucho upgrades). I like to push my limits. I am no pro rider, hardly, but I did ride BMX as a kid and like to be aggressive and take drops from time to time, so I wanted an AM set of wheels.

  42. #42
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    P.S. I lost all the stickers on the rims...my bike is all black with minor red highlights....i wanted the more utilitarian look.

  43. #43
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    The website lists weight for the i23 TCS rim at 475g. Above guys keep saying 455g... so uh what is it?

    Obviously there will be variation on rim to rim but is it 20g?

    Are the rims priced better than Stans?

  44. #44
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    There is some confusion, in part because the 2012 Catalog lists the i23 rim weights as 455g/26" and 470g/29", and the website lists the i23 rim weights as 475g/26" and 530g/29". I back calculated a weight of 503g/29" as noted in Post #12.

    The i23 26er 475g rim weight listed on the WTB website may be a typo.

    I can back calculate the rim weight from the total wheelset weight. I weighed the 26er wheelset I built at 1,850g. The calculated weight is 1,862g. The difference in the two weights is 12g, which can be allocated equally to the two rims, so the average weight per rim is 475 - 12/2 = 469g.

    If I back calculate the rim weight for the front wheel separately, on my scale the front wheel weighed 840g and the calculated wheel weight is 846g, The difference for the front is 6g. 475 - 6/2 = 472g for the front rim.

    The rear wheel weighed 1,000g and the calculated weight is 1,016g. The difference for the rear is 16g. 475 - 16/2 = 467g for the rear rim.

    Averaging the two calculated weights: Half of (472 + 467) is an average weight of 469.5g for a 26er i23 rim.

    WTB Frequency i23 rim website retail prices: $75/26" and $80/29".
    Stans Flow rim website retail prices: $90/26" and $93/29".
    Lower prices for the the rims can be found at other online stores.


    Quote Originally Posted by shirk View Post
    The website lists weight for the i23 TCS rim at 475g. Above guys keep saying 455g... so uh what is it?

    Obviously there will be variation on rim to rim but is it 20g?

    Are the rims priced better than Stans?
    Last edited by 4slomo; 12-08-2011 at 09:31 PM.
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  45. #45
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    Thanks for the info 4slomo. I've been a big fan of the LaserDisc Trail rims. They've taken a beating on my bike here on the Shore.

    I was going to build up some Flow's but now I am pretty sure I'll go for the i23.

    Do they come fairly straight and build up easy? I've only built 8 wheels so I am still a beginner in the fine art of wheel building.

  46. #46
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    Thanks for the heads up! I'll be picking up a set after Christmas.

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miker J View Post
    So the question will be, how are these rims going to compare to the Flows - being just as wide and about 70g lighter per rim.

    The Flows are 470g, so 15g more.

    Has anyone had any real problems with the Flows? I've just had some laced up and have never ridden tubeless before.

  48. #48
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    I have 4 sets of flow rims one for each of my bikes. Never had any issue with them. The key is to find tires that work best.

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by CupOfJava View Post
    I have 4 sets of flow rims one for each of my bikes. Never had any issue with them. The key is to find tires that work best.
    Maybe I'm misinformed, but that's the reason I never went with the Flow set up, tires. I just want to grab my TR or UST tire, put in on and go. I don't want to have to worry about getting it to seal, burping etc.

    I'm hoping with these new i23 rims supposedly with a UST bead, that I can just put a little tape on, sealant and go.
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  50. #50
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    Tubelss ready should be and easy fit with flows. Not sure about UST (they still make those??)

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by CupOfJava View Post
    Tubelss ready should be and easy fit with flows. Not sure about UST (they still make those??)
    LOL, yeah, I think they do, but they dont want to pay Mavic so they call them Tubeless, or Grid (Spec) or some other catching marketing name.

    When I want tough over weight, I go full UST( or equiv)
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  52. #52
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    Are the Flows fragile in a ghetto tubeless set-up? Does the lack of tube take away an important buffer between the rim and destruction?

  53. #53
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    I have had a lot of different tires on the flows and never had a problem getting any of them to seat or seal at the bead interface. UST, TLR, regular tires, they all locked in with no problems. As for durability, I would say that because of the really low profile of the rim you get fewer rim strikes when tubeless and fewer pinch flats when running tubes. So yes they are durable.

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    Why fewer rim strikes with a low profile? I'm worried that running at a lower pressure (one of the things tubeless allows you to do) will mean that the rims are "hitting" rocks more often and harder.

  55. #55
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    Hey guys,

    This thread is to discuss the i23 rims. Please try to help me keep it on topic and more helpful to those interested in the i23 rims, by discussing the Flow rims in a different thread. Thanks!
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  56. #56
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    Woops, apologies. Although this is also information that may sway someone towards or away from the i23 (also, the Flow is mentioned in the subject).

  57. #57
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    Not much to talk about regarding the WTB i23 since it's not even out yet. Oops I just noticed Universal Cycles has them in stock now.

    I'd like to hear feedback on these rims from anyone using them on a 29er.

  58. #58
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    Flows - 29"

    29" rims - that is what I was comparing.

    Flows with most any tire thus far (TLR or non-TLR) have been quite easy to set up.

    I 29" Flows as I recall look like they come in at about 525g and I've yet to kill one within a reasonable amount of riding time. So, if I can get another rim, that is cheap, lighter, just as wide, and just as easy to mount tires to, I'd consider a change.

    Now, if we are only talking a few grams, like 20g or so, I'll stick with the Flows. In terms of both east of setup and performance, they really have been great.

  59. #59
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    I hear you. 4 sets of Flows and never had any issues yet.

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    wow me too picking up a pair of these early 2012 for my 2012 Cannondale Flash alloy 29'er 3 so i can rock going tubeless in AZ

  61. #61
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    29er i23 initial impressions

    First riding impressions from Eugenemtb riding his WTB Frequency i23 29er SS wheelset: http://forums.mtbr.com/one/inbred-29...ml#post8876163
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  62. #62
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    it would have benn nicer if he ran the tcs bronsons

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    4slomo

    Hi.
    Wanted to ask.
    Is it possible to UST, TLR tire put on the rim WTB Frequency with a hand pump rather than floor pump, no compressor?I ask because on my Mavic UST rim, UST tire is worn easily with a hand pump, without the use of magic.
    Many manufacturers talk about the compatibility of its UST rims, but reading the forum it appears that users are experiencing difficulties with the production of tires, they are often in general not possible without a strong push to put the air compressor that provides a powerful floor pump.
    I offer my apologies for the error in the text. I'm from Russia, to communicate with you using google translate.
    I hope you understand me.

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    mounting tires

    Hi zg2tn9,

    I just received a response from WTB today. WTB has a video showing Jason Moeschler and Mark Weir, two racers, mounting WTB Bronson 2.3 AM TCS tires on Laser TCS All Mountain Race rims, which have the identical dimensions as the Frequency i23 rims, using a Topeak Mountain Morph hand pump.

    video mounting tire: WTB on Vimeo

    Quote Originally Posted by zg2tn9 View Post
    4slomo

    Hi.
    Wanted to ask.
    Is it possible to UST, TLR tire put on the rim WTB Frequency with a hand pump rather than floor pump, no compressor?I ask because on my Mavic UST rim, UST tire is worn easily with a hand pump, without the use of magic.
    Many manufacturers talk about the compatibility of its UST rims, but reading the forum it appears that users are experiencing difficulties with the production of tires, they are often in general not possible without a strong push to put the air compressor that provides a powerful floor pump.
    I offer my apologies for the error in the text. I'm from Russia, to communicate with you using google translate.
    I hope you understand me.
    Last edited by 4slomo; 01-24-2012 at 11:21 AM.
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  65. #65
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    I've been wanting to upgrade my wheelset and this seems to be a good option. I'm new to this UST thing and wanted to ask if I can still use tube on a UST compliant rim?

    Also, crc has them but are listed as 2011.
    WTB Frequency I-23- Sleeved Rim 2011 | Buy Online | ChainReactionCycles.com
    Are these the same i23 rim discussed here?

  66. #66
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    Yes, you can use a tube on a UST rim.

    I've built up quite a few wheels now with both the i19 and the i23 in 26 and 29. Much easier to build than Stan's, primarily due to the fact that there's no real binding to speak of between the nipple and the rim. Quality on the rim is excellent. I've got a pair on the way that I'll be building for a personal set. I am eager to get these going to see what long term durability is going to be.

    Good post 4slomo. We've had the same discussion here in the bike shop that the i23 is a potential Flow killer.
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  67. #67
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    I just built up a i23 29er wheelset. Will test it out once my Charbon Frame comes in this week and I finish building it up. I've ridden a set of i19 which were great.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ignazjr View Post
    Yes, you can use a tube on a UST rim.

    I've built up quite a few wheels now with both the i19 and the i23 in 26 and 29. Much easier to build than Stan's, primarily due to the fact that there's no real binding to speak of between the nipple and the rim. Quality on the rim is excellent. I've got a pair on the way that I'll be building for a personal set. I am eager to get these going to see what long term durability is going to be.

    Good post 4slomo. We've had the same discussion here in the bike shop that the i23 is a potential Flow killer.
    Thanks. Can anyone confirm that the one on crc is the most recent one?

  69. #69
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    They have only made one iteration of the i23 to my knowledge. It just started shipping in November or so. Unless you're not in the US, why not pick one up from a local dealer? $71 is pretty easy for most local shops to price match.
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    Thanks.

    Not from US and will be buying a custom built wheelset with hope pro 2 and crc is a bargain for the set.

  71. #71
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    Hi all!
    Kindly take a picture of the place the joint rim WTB Frequency I-23 close-up, and place here.
    For even earlier thanks.

  72. #72
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    joints

    Here you go. Same rim, different angles. This particular rim went together very well. No hopping or funkiness at the joint. Good stuff.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails WTB Frequency i23 AM wheelset: alternative to Flow rims-2012-02-25_11-57-39_327.jpg  

    WTB Frequency i23 AM wheelset: alternative to Flow rims-2012-02-25_11-57-53_340.jpg  

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  73. #73
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    This is probably a dumb question but do I need a tape on these rims to run tubed/tubeless? If not needed, will adding a tape has its advantages/disadvantages?

  74. #74
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    Check out the second picture in post #1. See the spoke holes drilled in the rim? Those need to be sealed up by tape to keep the air in the tire/rim from leaking out through the spoke holes. An additional advantage of tubeless rim tape is if your tire fits too loosely on the rim, you can add an additional layer of tape to help the tire bead seal against the rim.

    To run tubed, you can use either a rim strip, or use rim tape.

    Quote Originally Posted by opiants View Post
    This is probably a dumb question but do I need a tape on these rims to run tubed/tubeless? If not needed, will adding a tape has its advantages/disadvantages?
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  75. #75
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    I see. Thanks for that.

  76. #76
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    Here's some more inside/outside pictures, however, my macro lens function isn't as good, the joint is between the two central spoke holes, and have minimal gap, well finished:



    Quote Originally Posted by zg2tn9 View Post
    Hi all!
    Kindly take a picture of the place the joint rim WTB Frequency I-23 close-up, and place here.
    For even earlier thanks.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails WTB Frequency i23 AM wheelset: alternative to Flow rims-p1040231.jpg  

    WTB Frequency i23 AM wheelset: alternative to Flow rims-p1040235.jpg  

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  77. #77
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    Like this thread and love the 4D drilling.

    Wonder if they will make one of these with a little more burl? Like an I25 or so.

    4slomo: How strong do you think this rim is compared to a 721? Besides being like 100 grams lighter.

  78. #78
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    When built up, the i23 rims feel stronger than flow rims. I'm not as sure of a comparison with a DT-S EX500 rim, as to which might be a stronger build. I'm sure the ENVE AM rim is stronger than an i23 rim.

    I don't recall seeing WTB recently building rims wider than a 23mm internal width, so it could be surprising if they came out with one.

    Here's an anecdotal testament to the WTB rim design: I built a custom wheelset last year using WTB Laserdisc XC rims (immediate predecessor model to the i19 rim, with eyelets and no beadlock) for a customer. He already had a burlier wheelset for AM, and wanted something lighter for more everyday riding. He liked how the XC wheelset performed so much, that he rode it continually for his favorite ride, which he ends with him taking a 6 foot jump to flat. When he popped an alloy nipple head off of a spoke, he emailed me and we concluded that he might be overriding his wheelset. I told him that his wheelset wasn't designed for such large jumps, and it would be best for the wheelset if he didn't take that jump on his ride. I also told him that if he wanted, we could rebuild it with stronger rims to meet those requirements for his favorite ride, or he could just keep riding his XC wheelset until he trashed the rims, and then rebuild it. So far, he's decided to keep riding and taking the jump.

    Quote Originally Posted by fermenter View Post
    Like this thread and love the 4D drilling.

    Wonder if they will make one of these with a little more burl? Like an I25 or so.

    4slomo: How strong do you think this rim is compared to a 721? Besides being like 100 grams lighter.
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  79. #79
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    Well the build for my 721's came out very strong. Too bad I like to run with low pressure then don't notice when I've lost some air. I'll be replacing the 721 in the rear. I do much admire the angled spoke drilling seen on I23 and 800 series Mavic.

    Considering the price point of the 721 and that likely I'll be replacing rims every few years I've got some thinking to do.

    Cheers!

  80. #80
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    4slomo, is there any possibility to safely remove stickers completeley or partially ? I like the rims, but I started to really hate that black-white-red color scheme. Because it, almost literally, everywhere.

  81. #81
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    Hi nameresu,

    I had a customer take off WTB Frequency i23 stickers from both sides of his rims on a custom i23 AM wheel build I did for him because he decided he wanted a more utilitarian look. He said he just peeled them off.

    Quote Originally Posted by nameresu View Post
    4slomo, is there any possibility to safely remove stickers completeley or partially ? I like the rims, but I started to really hate that black-white-red color scheme. Because it, almost literally, everywhere.
    Last edited by 4slomo; 03-02-2012 at 03:25 PM.
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  82. #82
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    Im really interested in this rim. Any ride reports, like after going over a few rocks gardens at speed?
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  83. #83
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    I got these comments back from a customer riding his custom i23 29er wheels: "Am really liking the 29er wheelset you built for me! Did a rooty/rocky outback trail today on the Inbred SS. What a great ride!
    The bike is light and responsive. Very fun and easy despite the fact it was on a SS with a rigid carbon fork."

    Check out Post #71 in this On-One thread

    Quote Originally Posted by myitch View Post
    Im really interested in this rim. Any ride reports, like after going over a few rocks gardens at speed?
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  84. #84
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    4Slomo, Thanks for all posts. I'm In! Ordered Today

    Just ordered WTB 29er i23 set for Chris King Hubs (s.s. rear). 1st set of Kings for me. Love WTB products and been a few yrs since I needed something from them. I've been riding XT 26er set, and XT 29er set (SUPER noodley 9mm on FOX 120, but I love them). I can't wait to compare WTB Frequency i23 29er with my beloved Shimano 29er proprietary 19mm.

    XT 19mm 24 spoke
    WTB 23mm 32 spoke

    Should be interesting wheelsets to play around with. I can't wait.

  85. #85
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    Any updates on these rims? I'm considering a build with these, but don't have any long(er) term ride reports.
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  86. #86
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    What length of time is long(er) term to you?

    Quote Originally Posted by OO7 View Post
    Any updates on these rims? I'm considering a build with these, but don't have any long(er) term ride reports.
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  87. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4slomo View Post
    What length of time is long(er) term to you?
    At least a few months. I know that these things just came out not that long ago, so obviously nobody has "years" on them.
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  88. #88
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    WTB changed the spec on the 29er rim on their site. It used to say 470g and now says 530g. Mine came in at 522g and 520g.
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  89. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by tedsti View Post
    WTB changed the spec on the 29er rim on their site. It used to say 470g and now says 530g. Mine came in at 522g and 520g.
    Thats no good . . . what are the 26" coming in at?

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  90. #90
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    Real weight of a 26" 1-23 is 460 (467gr the other i bought)

  91. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by tedsti View Post
    WTB changed the spec on the 29er rim on their site. It used to say 470g and now says 530g. Mine came in at 522g and 520g.
    If they are updating their website with real world weights, then perhaps I will start moving towards trusting WTB again.

    (Their tire weights were listed 100-200g off their rim weights were listed lighter too - it's the web, it's easy to update when you know the info is off and the production is higher, it's disingenuous )

    P

  92. #92
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    I got a hold of 2 26er rims the other week and on my "super-precise" harbor freight Scale-o-meter each rim came in at 471 grams.
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  93. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by ignazjr View Post
    Here you go. Same rim, different angles. This particular rim went together very well. No hopping or funkiness at the joint. Good stuff.
    I have a honest question. My current Rim is a DT Swiss 5.1, and I think that the join is welded. Is there a difference in strength or durability or flexibility when it's joined like this or welded?

  94. #94
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    As far as the joint is concerned, as long as the weld was prepared and laid correctly it should do a better job at keeping the rim round in that location. Lots of jumps and drops where there are high impact forces on wheels have a tendency to split or out of round the connection on pinned rims. This effect is more pronounced when the spokes are not up to proper tension allowing the rim to further deviate. When I rode BMX (street) before MTB the seams had to be welded otherwise I would need to build wheels all the time.
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  95. #95
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    Does anyone made a long term test on this rims? any issue or failure??

  96. #96
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    In case anyone is interested I snagged a pair of i23's. As far as inflating is concerned I paired them to wtb weirwolf Tcs and could inflate them with my Blackburn mammoth pump.
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  97. #97
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    I'll let y'all now first impressions in a couple weeks. Having a set built up with some CK's and DT comps. We'll see how they hold up . . . my gut tells me this is going to be a solid wheel set.
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  98. #98
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    I've been trying to find out how these 26" I 23 frequency compare in strength to other well known rims with no luck. Looking at other options I came across something interesting.

    The one year only 2011 Laser Freeride TCS Rim: Products - WTB

    TCS, 23mm internal width and 540 grams.

    Compared to the I23 Frequency: Products - WTB

    TCS, 23mm internal width and 470 grams

    Is it possible they used the same extrusion and wall thickness for both rims and skipped the eyeletts in favor of 4D drilling? Could you shed that much weight by dropping the eyelets?
    I'm still left wondering.......I found a pair of Freeride TCS but if it is the same extrusion I would have better wheels with the Frequency I 23.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails WTB Frequency i23 AM wheelset: alternative to Flow rims-2011-freeride-tcs.png  

    WTB Frequency i23 AM wheelset: alternative to Flow rims-frequency-i23.png  


  99. #99
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    The Freeride looks thicker in the pic but it's pic is larger.

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    If you think about it each eyelet probably weighs around 1-2 grams and the extra drilling maybe removes 1/2 a gram from each spoke hole. That works out to around 64-70 grams a wheel.
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  101. #101
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    So I have only had a chance to put about 50 or so miles on these so far, but they feel much stiffer than the Arches they replaced.
    Also going from a 19 to a 23mm inner width gave my 2.1 and 2.3 Bronson's a much better profile.
    I've mounted three different WTB TCS (2.1 Bronson, 2.3 Bronson, and Weirwolf) tires on these hoops and they all went on very easily. I'll be trying out a WTB TCS Moto as soon as the brown Santa Claus shows up with it and the weather cooperates.

    I can also give a pretty good testimony as to their durability.
    Long story short, I broke my derailleur hanger and sucked the derailleur into the wheel and broke three drive side spokes and bent a couple more, and broke my chain. I threw a tube in the tire (spokes broke through the rim tape and flatted my tubeless setup) and hiked up hills and coasted down. I also slammed my dropper and used my bike like a push bike on the flat sections. It was about 4-5 miles back out to my car. I'm 220 lbs geared up and the abuse put a pretty big wobble in the rim that I was worried wouldn't be completely truable. My wheel builder was a little worried too when he got a hold of it. In the end it trued up perfect. My wheel builder was very impressed.

    Rear:


    Front:


    Weight as calculated by the DT Swiss Spoke Calculator (I didn't weigh them myself):
    Build: WTB 26" Frequency i23 laced to King iso 15 mm front hub with DT comps and alloy nipples, King iso 10x135 rear with DT comps and alloy nipples:

    1907 grams
    Last edited by mestapho; 03-28-2012 at 10:01 AM.

  102. #102
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    I dont think the eyelets make for 60 grams. The Frequency i19 has same weight as Laser TCS XC 19mm

  103. #103
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    Here are some pics of my setup:
    <img src="https://img710.imageshack.us/img710/9971/wheels2h.jpg"
    <img src="https://img94.imageshack.us/img94/4659/wheels3f.jpg"
    <img src="https://img220.imageshack.us/img220/9900/wheels1.jpg"

    The front is laced to a Sette 7 20mm hub, the rear is a TBC 10X135.
    Sure there is room to make them lighter but they are every bit as stiff as my LD trails they replaced.
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  104. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by mestapho View Post
    Weight as calculated by the DT Swiss Spoke Calculator (I didn't weigh them myself):
    Build: WTB 26" Frequency i23 laced to King iso 15 mm front hub with DT comps and alloy nipples, King iso 10x135 rear with DT comps and alloy nipples:

    1907 grams
    I'm putting together an identical build, though I'm using brass nipples. Everything else is the same. Should be picking them up this Sunday and I'll be sure to weigh them.
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  105. #105
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    Clyde AM SS i23 wheelset

    I just completed and shipped a 29er AM Single Speed wheelset with the WTB Frequency i23 rims (UST/TCS profile), DT-S Alpine III spokes, Hadley DH 15TA front hub and Hadley SDH SS 10BO rear hub for a 240 lb riding weight Clyde customer in Germany. Total wheelset rotating weight: 2,129g. I continue to be impressed by the quality of these rims: 527g, 120kgf max. spoke tension, very nice design details. As I finished the build process, the wheels had the feel of having developed high strength, and built up very true. These triple-butted DH-sized spokes can be used with Hadley hubs, and look to give the strength needed for this rider.
    Hey everybody, ride my wheels! They ride good, real good.
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  106. #106
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    I found that the 26 I23 has the same ERD as Mavic xm317, and Stans Flow rims. I saw that the xm717 had the same erd but positive on the information. Great upgrade if your bike comes stock with xm317s. Tubeless and wider.

  107. #107
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    4 rides on my new wheels, Then re-rode old XT's. WOW!

    Chris King hubs/DT double butted spokes/WTB Frequency i23 29er wheels. Built by Justin at WRENCH SCIENCE. Awesome. Never had custom before. Why did I wait so long. After 4 rides, had wheels inspected. One wheel needed 2 or 3 spokes adjusted. One hub needed to be tightened. The craziest thing is that I rode my old XT wheelset today. XT 29er was my favorite for the last 2 yrs. No truing in 100's of hours. Shimano is very flexy wheelset and I was used to it and I liked the noodley feel. However, after riding 8 or 9 hours on WTB rims, I don't like the XT set as much, weird feeling if you are not used to it. We will see how they hold up to my rocky trails. NOTE: XT set up as single speed 29er (dished), King/WTB Frequency i23 29er is a Single speed hub, no dish.

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    Agree.

    My laser TCS Freeride rim weighs 580g. There is no way they use the same wall thickness for both rims.

    Quote Originally Posted by ivarulz View Post
    I dont think the eyelets make for 60 grams. The Frequency i19 has same weight as Laser TCS XC 19mm

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    Is the 23mm inner width between the bead hooks or the distance between the bead seats?

  110. #110
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    The internal dimension is defined as between the rim bead hooks, as this deternines how far the tire beads spread when the tire is seated in the rim.

    Quote Originally Posted by BroSole View Post
    Is the 23mm inner width between the bead hooks or the distance between the bead seats?
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  111. #111
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    Ordered 26" set and might get to build them before next weekend. Little worried the rim could be too light duty but I'll chalk it up to a learning experiance if it is.

    I dent up my rims from time to time. I was going to go with Mavic 823's but at the cost of denting those up...........

    Looking forward to the build, there is something very satisfying about it.

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    Ordered some i23's yesterday and had them laced up to a pair of CK's today. Disappointed in the joint, looks like there a bit of a gap right under the Made in China sticker. I've had sleeve and pinned rims before that had a much nicer union than this. Compared to a sleeve and pinned DT Swiss rim there is a noticeable quality difference.It also took a bit to get them round, both had hops in them. Hoping they last me through the summer but I'm not optimistic. I was on the fence between these and a set of Inferno 29's. Hoping I made the right choice.

    Wheel build came in just under 1900 grams.
    Last edited by Super66; 06-02-2012 at 07:19 PM.

  113. #113
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    OOfff, Thin

    Got my rims yesterday.....bead hook and sidewall is very thin.
    Otherwise rim joint looked very good and nipple chamfering inside looks to make a fery well supported interface for the nipple base.


    Compared to my mavic 721 the bead and sidewall are 1.2mm thinner each side.
    721= 21mm internal, I23= 23mm internal. The 721 is .4mm wider than the I23 externaly. 2.4mm more beef.

    I expected this rim to be less beefy than the 721 but now after checking them I am considering returning them. I don't have a mic to check them but I think the sidewall under the bead hook is 1mm or less thick.


    Thinking........

  114. #114
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    We're talking about a rim that's over 100g lighter, what did you expect?

    Quote Originally Posted by fermenter View Post
    Got my rims yesterday.....bead hook and sidewall is very thin.
    Otherwise rim joint looked very good and nipple chamfering inside looks to make a fery well supported interface for the nipple base.


    Compared to my mavic 721 the bead and sidewall are 1.2mm thinner each side.
    721= 21mm internal, I23= 23mm internal. The 721 is .4mm wider than the I23 externaly. 2.4mm more beef.

    I expected this rim to be less beefy than the 721 but now after checking them I am considering returning them. I don't have a mic to check them but I think the sidewall under the bead hook is 1mm or less thick.


    Thinking........
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  115. #115
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    Ha, I know..I expected them to be less beefy but not so much just in one area...the top wall the spoke goes through is plenty thick.

    These or 823's.. I don't think I have time to build them tonight before tomorrows ride so I can think about this over the weekend.

    Cheers!

  116. #116
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    fermenter,
    Mavic EX721 were designed for rim brakes originally, and the extrusion profiles never changed. New ones are being made with anodized sidewalls and that's all.

    On the other hand, when I tried to find maximum allowable air pressures for Frequency i19 and i23, I found no such information.
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  117. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by J. Random Psycho View Post
    fermenter,
    Mavic EX721 were designed for rim brakes originally, and the extrusion profiles never changed. New ones are being made with anodized sidewalls and that's all.

    On the other hand, when I tried to find maximum allowable air pressures for Frequency i19 and i23, I found no such information.
    Per WTB, max pressure is dictated by the tire.
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  118. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by OO7 View Post
    Per WTB, max pressure is dictated by the tire.
    Well, then there's nothing to worry about sidewalls being too thin.
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  119. #119
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    JRP: I was just worried about rim strikes.

    I went ahead with the build and it was a pleasure with these rims. Much less nipple bind in the rim with this directional drilling and back chamfer.

    I will just have to watch my tire pressure closer.

    Set up the front without a tube, Minion DHR2 2.4 Wire bead doublewall. Was able to do it with a floor pump, granted I pumped fast till it caught in at 15psi and quit hissing. Opened the bead and dumped in sealant and did it again with same results.

    The rear tire was a maxxis EXO folding tire. I could mount it with 2 fingers I think..... loose fit. I didn't want to chance it so that side has a tube.

    I plan on running tubeless ready tires soon.

    To quote 4slomo : " As I finished the build process, the wheels had the feel of having developed high strength, and built up very true. "

    Other than a slight hop on one of them I'd have to agree.

    Cheers!

  120. #120
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    PS: I think a nice product at the price point.

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    So are these better than flows or what?
    Can anyone list the advantages/disadvantages in using these compared to the flow?
    price is comparable, so is weight...
    mostly interested in durability and tubeless set-up.....which one holds beads better?

  122. #122
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    Here's a short version:

    i23 rims are stronger than flow rims, however the newly released wider and heavier flow ex rim may prove to be stronger yet. i23 rims go best with UST-compliant tires, and I think more durable. Flow rims go best with tubeless ready or standard tires. i23 rims are less expensive, but the old Flow rims are being closed out at sale prices if that is what you are looking at.

    You can probably get more details by spending some time reading through the thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by murrdogg11 View Post
    So are these better than flows or what?
    Can anyone list the advantages/disadvantages in using these compared to the flow?
    price is comparable, so is weight...
    mostly interested in durability and tubeless set-up.....which one holds beads better?
    Last edited by 4slomo; 06-18-2012 at 10:26 AM.
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  123. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4slomo View Post
    Here's a short version:

    i23 rims are stronger than flow rims, however the newly released wider and heavier flow ex rim may prove to be stronger yet. i23 rims go best with UST-compliant tires, and I think more durable. Flow rims go best with tubeless ready or standard tires. i23 rims are less expensive, but the old Flow rims are being closed out at sale prices if that is what you are looking at.

    You can probably get more details by spending some time reading through the thread.
    Thanks for the reply. thats some good info there.
    I did read through the thread however didnt see to many direct comparisons to the flow.
    If anyone else has any comparisons it would be appreciated.
    Looking to build up 29er wheelset for a tallboy lt.

  124. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by murrdogg11 View Post
    Thanks for the reply. thats some good info there.
    I did read through the thread however didnt see to many direct comparisons to the flow.
    If anyone else has any comparisons it would be appreciated.
    Looking to build up 29er wheelset for a tallboy lt.
    The frequency i23's are coming stock on the complete Tallboy LT builds? That has to say something.. I'm also on the fence between the i23s vs the flows. I have an original tallboy aluminum, and i'm also looking to build up a new (stronger) wheelset.

  125. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by NepaJames View Post
    The frequency i23's are coming stock on the complete Tallboy LT builds? That has to say something.. I'm also on the fence between the i23s vs the flows. I have an original tallboy aluminum, and i'm also looking to build up a new (stronger) wheelset.
    It may only be on Tallboy LTC's and not on the LT aluminums. I just got my Tallboy Carbon about 3 weeks ago and they came with the WTB Freq I23's, with a DT Swiss 350. THe Tallboy aluminum doesn't come with these wheels.

    I didn't know about this thread and started a thread about this under the "29er components" section.

    I've ridden these wheels hard and fast! Rocky terrain, roots, jumps, logs, you name it. I also had a bad crash last week too. They are a true as can be. What I'm considering is taking this set of my Tallboy C and putting a CK or i9 hubs instead of the DT350's. I'm at 215 with pack and I'm trying to consider what is the best way to go?

    I wanted to achieve a lighter rolling weight and was even considering the ZTR Arch EX or Crest's but these have a 21 inner rim width compared to the WTB with 23. So its either save half a pound and smaller inner rim width or stay where I am with wider rim width and CK or i9 hubs.

  126. #126
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    hmmm, you sure about the frequency i23's only coming on the carbon builds? The Santa Cruz site says otherwise with the aluminum builds? Santa Cruz Bicycles. Check out the kits and scroll down to the components list. It shows the Aluminum Lt with the wtb i23's as well.

    As for which one to go with, honestly I don't know enough about these components to give you advice. I'm a former bmx transplant to the mountain bike world and trying to get a grasp of all of this new information to me. Although I will tell you what my next build will be. Either these i23's or the flows, laced up with the iso Ck hubs with dt double butted spokes. In the process of changing out the rear of the original tallboy with a 10mm Hadley thru axle as well. I weigh around 250, without gear and suited up. I need a stiff build regardless!

  127. #127
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    Well I've found that I made a HUGE mistake here. My Tallboy Carbon did not come with i23's. Rather, they came with WTB i19's. THe website says 435 grams a wheel for the 29er wheel! Much lighter than the i23 but do not have the 23 inner. So I could also be wrong on the Aluminum as a matter of fact I am wrong on that.

    So Tallboy carbons come with i19's @ 435 grams and DT350 hubs. Still considering swapping these hubs for CK or i9 hubs.

  128. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by italianbike74 View Post
    What about the i19? Anybody have built those rims for xc racing ?
    thanks
    As I said above they came standard on my Tallboy carbon.

  129. #129
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    More love for the i23 - BikeRadar review

  130. #130
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    I just weighed and measured another set of Frequency i23 29er rims for an upcoming wheel build: Weights were 523 and 524 grams. ERDs were 600.7 and 600.8 mm, each averages of three measurements around the two rims. The previous set I measured were 599 mm each.

    Make sure you measure your rims before you calculate lengths and order your spokes.
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  131. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4slomo View Post
    ERDs were 600.7 and 600.8 mm, each averages of three measurements around the two rims. The previous set I measured were 599 mm each.
    Looks like they are silently tweaking the profile, as if there was something wrong with the one that had 599 mm ERD.

    How many samples do you measure on a rim before averaging the ERD?
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  132. #132
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    Process Drift from Nominal Spec

    Quote Originally Posted by J. Random Psycho View Post
    Looks like they are silently tweaking the profile, as if there was something wrong with the one that had 599 mm ERD.

    How many samples do you measure on a rim before averaging the ERD?
    They could easily be drifting off nominal for the depth of the chamfer on the backside of the spoke hole. That would affect measured ERD.

    Using the published ERD on my 26" build the spoke thread depth looked good to slightly shallow. They were all at the bottom of the slot to just perceptivly a bit higher. Perfect as new it gives a bit of room for tuneups. I didn't have any spoke threads come flush or over the top of the nipple inside the rim.

  133. #133
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    I'm comfortable taking up to three measurements on a well-made rim.

    Quote Originally Posted by J. Random Psycho View Post
    Looks like they are silently tweaking the profile, as if there was something wrong with the one that had 599 mm ERD.

    How many samples do you measure on a rim before averaging the ERD?
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  134. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by fermenter View Post
    They could easily be drifting off nominal for the depth of the chamfer on the backside of the spoke hole. That would affect measured ERD.
    But there's not so much room for that on Frequency rims, IMHO. That would mean they drilled almost 1 mm too deep on the batch that measured 599 mm.


    Quote Originally Posted by 4slomo View Post
    I'm comfortable taking up to three measurements on a well-made rim.
    On new rims I take 3 measurements too.. guess I'll take more when I get my hands on some i23's. A pair of these is already on the way for a customer..
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  135. #135
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    Another review here

  136. #136
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    Reading the singletrack review, it struck me as odd that the reviewer would be evaluating an AM rim from an XC perspective.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shalom View Post
    Another review here
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  137. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4slomo View Post
    Reading the singletrack review, it struck me as odd that the reviewer would be evaluating an AM rim from an XC perspective.
    Ja, that confused me a little too. But they seemed to like it all the same . Or they got the wrong specs and were actually meant to be evaluating the i19?

  138. #138
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    Well, I just ordered one of these this past week to build up a rear wheel! I'm hoping it is as good as it has been reviewed.

  139. #139
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    Looking for some tire recommendations that work well tubeless on the i23 29er rim..
    anyone have experience with racing ralph SS, hans dampf or continental x-king or mountain king....
    and other good tire recommendations are appreciated.

  140. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by murrdogg11 View Post
    Looking for some tire recommendations that work well tubeless on the i23 29er rim..
    anyone have experience with racing ralph SS, hans dampf or continental x-king or mountain king....
    and other good tire recommendations are appreciated.
    I've only used the WTB TCS tires. Bronson, Moto and Weirwolf. All have been very easy to setup with just a floor pump. Bronsons are my favorite all around tire.

  141. #141
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    WTB Frequency i23 29er, Wheelsmith DB14, Hadley DH/SDH

    Customer riding impressions reported Thursday, 7/19/12: "I have 6 rides of various length. ... Impressions - All I can do is compare to what I have ridden before which in 29er is the Easton Haven. Mavics in 26. These are the best wheels I have owned BY FAR! The Hadley hubs are surgically smooth and efficient. They roll so well when I coast I swear they have a motor in them. The 72 POE is noticeable when riding the techy gnar which is an improvement. I put them through 2 rides that I know if I was riding the Havens they would of needed truing. The WTB i23 rims were a great choice for my 225 lbs. I like running the big profile tires and it helped the tire spread out and get a wider profile. The UST rims seal much better than the Havens. The Havens would slowly loose air pressure between rides. I rode on Saturday and the tires were the same pressure this morning when I went to ride."

    Quote Originally Posted by 4slomo View Post
    I just weighed and measured another set of Frequency i23 29er rims for an upcoming wheel build: Weights were 523 and 524 grams. ERDs were 600.7 and 600.8 mm, each averages of three measurements around the two rims. The previous set I measured were 599 mm each.

    Make sure you measure your rims before you calculate lengths and order your spokes.
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  142. #142
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    Nice review, thanks...

  143. #143
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    Im gonna get a set of these soon in 26". has anyone here built them with hope pro 2's? if so what spoke lengths did u use?
    '18 banshee rune

  144. #144
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    I'm waiting on a set of these rims to come in for my new build! Keeping my same hubs (lefty and shimano M475) and using DT Swiss Champion spokes. Should be a sturdy build with decent weight!
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  145. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spykr View Post
    I'm waiting on a set of these rims to come in for my new build! Keeping my same hubs (lefty and shimano M475) and using DT Swiss Champion spokes. Should be a sturdy build with decent weight!
    I ordered one last week from modern bike and got it in about 4 days.

    I've already got it built up and have put 25 miles on it. Should be tying and soldering the spokes tonight.

  146. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metamorphic View Post
    I ordered one last week from modern bike and got it in about 4 days.

    I've already got it built up and have put 25 miles on it. Should be tying and soldering the spokes tonight.
    do you remeber what the erd was?
    '18 banshee rune

  147. #147
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    Edit - for 26" hoops
    Last edited by mestapho; 07-30-2012 at 06:58 PM.

  148. #148
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    I just used the factory value of 599.

  149. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by mestapho View Post
    537

    Edit - for 26" hoops
    Did you measure it?
    '18 banshee rune

  150. #150
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    Nope. Just used the value from the website. Worked perfectly.
    I used the DT Swiss calculator figure spoke lengths based on that ERD.

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    Has anybody set up schwalbe hans dampf's or specialized tubeliss ready tires up on these?
    my lbs said they really only work well tubeless with WTB TCS tires or UST, but not other tubeless ready brands.
    Any feedback?

  152. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by murrdogg11 View Post
    Has anybody set up schwalbe hans dampf's or specialized tubeliss ready tires up on these?
    my lbs said they really only work well tubeless with WTB TCS tires or UST, but not other tubeless ready brands.
    Any feedback?
    I put a Specl, 2bliss Escar 2.3 on the front I built up a couple months ago. It locks up great. Nice pop as it seats when inflating, good press with the thumb to get it to release when deflating. Floor pump inflates. I experimented with lower pressures. Got down to about 22-23 pounds as indicated on my pump. No burping and it really smoothed out the trail, but there was so much side wall flex at that point that it was uncomfortable to corner. Now, last week i bought a fancy digital tire pressure gauge. What I'm finding is that the gauge on my pump reads about 5 pounds over. I figure I was down in the high teens at that point in reality. At this point I'm running about 23 (true) with no problems as a guy who's 240 in kit. Needless to say I'm pretty impressed with the lock up.

    I just finished my i23 rear last night and I'm trying to decide which tire to put on it. Torn between the Captain 2.2 and the Purgatory. I've run Purgatory tires in the past on the old rear and done well, but I think with the extra tire profile from the wider rim the lower rolling resistance of the Captain would be welcome and still give plenty of traction for climbing in the loose.

  153. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by murrdogg11 View Post
    Has anybody set up schwalbe hans dampf's or specialized tubeliss ready tires up on these?
    my lbs said they really only work well tubeless with WTB TCS tires or UST, but not other tubeless ready brands.
    Any feedback?
    i really doubt thats true; rim has a ust bead. Im sure it works well with all tubeless ready tires; tubeless ready tires have a ust bead but not the ust thick sidewall.
    '18 banshee rune

  154. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metamorphic View Post
    I put a Specl, 2bliss Escar 2.3 on the front I built up a couple months ago. It locks up great. Nice pop as it seats when inflating, good press with the thumb to get it to release when deflating. Floor pump inflates. I experimented with lower pressures. Got down to about 22-23 pounds as indicated on my pump. No burping and it really smoothed out the trail, but there was so much side wall flex at that point that it was uncomfortable to corner. Now, last week i bought a fancy digital tire pressure gauge. What I'm finding is that the gauge on my pump reads about 5 pounds over. I figure I was down in the high teens at that point in reality. At this point I'm running about 23 (true) with no problems as a guy who's 240 in kit. Needless to say I'm pretty impressed with the lock up.

    I just finished my i23 rear last night and I'm trying to decide which tire to put on it. Torn between the Captain 2.2 and the Purgatory. I've run Purgatory tires in the past on the old rear and done well, but I think with the extra tire profile from the wider rim the lower rolling resistance of the Captain would be welcome and still give plenty of traction for climbing in the loose.
    thanks for the feedback....yeah im considering the purgatory for the rear as well...and hans dampf for the front.

  155. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by mestapho View Post
    537

    Edit - for 26" hoops
    This I can confirm.
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  156. #156
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    Paid Spam

    Since this thread is still alive and well, just wanted to throw this out there if someone's looking. I'm selling my 29" i23 wheelset. I've seen people post links to their ads before so if this is against the rules just let me know and i'll pull it down. Thanks

    NEW WTB Frequency i23 29'er Wheelset - PRICE REDUCED - Buy and Sell and Review Mountain Bikes and Accessories

  157. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spykr View Post
    I'm waiting on a set of these rims to come in for my new build! Keeping my same hubs (lefty and shimano M475) and using DT Swiss Champion spokes. Should be a sturdy build with decent weight!
    I'd like to see it with a Lefty set up. Post a pic when done.

    When I finally get my new Lefty wheel built up, it will have this i23 rim.
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  158. #158
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    I just got mine and weighed them. 453 grams!
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  159. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by dwyooaj View Post
    I just got mine and weighed them. 453 grams!
    There must be great variance between batches -- I weighed 2 (26") rims and they were 478 and 479 g.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ziscwg View Post
    I'd like to see it with a Lefty set up. Post a pic when done.

    When I finally get my new Lefty wheel built up, it will have this i23 rim.
    I can certainly do that!
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  161. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by murrdogg11 View Post
    Has anybody set up schwalbe hans dampf's or specialized tubeliss ready tires up on these?
    my lbs said they really only work well tubeless with WTB TCS tires or UST, but not other tubeless ready brands.
    Any feedback?
    I am running a Hans Dampf on this rim and it set up super easy. No problems inflating or keeping pressure. The HD is a great front tire. I also set up the back wheel with a DHF Minion with no problems.
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    I'm looking to beat these up on some aggressive all mountain riding. I like to case some bigger landings from time to time, you know, eating dirt on gaps with 15+ feet of clearance. In reality I like to roll away on it nice and smoothly, but you never know what a rim is going to have to take.

    Does everyone think these things can take a serious beating? All I do is put my 6 inch AM Norco Range through the trails. I'm just tired of rims being listed as "all mountain" when they can't take some hell from a patch of granite or shale. I feel that AM includes some mild drops and hucks from time to time. That's not freeride, is it?

  163. #163
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    OK...just looking for clarification: Do all "tubeless ready" tires have square shaped UST beads? Is this true for all manufacturers that offer tubeless ready tires? If so, can this be 100% confirmed (i.e. anyone actually heard/read this from credible sources?

    I want to mount at Schwalbe Nobby Nic tubeless to my Frequency i23 29er rims.

  164. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by historeeteacher View Post
    OK...just looking for clarification: Do all "tubeless ready" tires have square shaped UST beads? Is this true for all manufacturers that offer tubeless ready tires? If so, can this be 100% confirmed (i.e. anyone actually heard/read this from credible sources?

    I want to mount at Schwalbe Nobby Nic tubeless to my Frequency i23 29er rims.
    My understanding is that the tubeless ready standard is a UST bead but needs to be run with sealant.

  165. #165
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    Your description of your riding style sounds more like freeride than AM to me, and you would probably be better riding on FR rims.

    Quote Originally Posted by ehigh View Post
    I'm looking to beat these up on some aggressive all mountain riding. I like to case some bigger landings from time to time, you know, eating dirt on gaps with 15+ feet of clearance. In reality I like to roll away on it nice and smoothly, but you never know what a rim is going to have to take.

    Does everyone think these things can take a serious beating? All I do is put my 6 inch AM Norco Range through the trails. I'm just tired of rims being listed as "all mountain" when they can't take some hell from a patch of granite or shale. I feel that AM includes some mild drops and hucks from time to time. That's not freeride, is it?
    Hey everybody, ride my wheels! They ride good, real good.
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  166. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by ehigh View Post
    I'm looking to beat these up on some aggressive all mountain riding. I like to case some bigger landings from time to time, you know, eating dirt on gaps with 15+ feet of clearance. In reality I like to roll away on it nice and smoothly, but you never know what a rim is going to have to take.

    Does everyone think these things can take a serious beating? All I do is put my 6 inch AM Norco Range through the trails. I'm just tired of rims being listed as "all mountain" when they can't take some hell from a patch of granite or shale. I feel that AM includes some mild drops and hucks from time to time. That's not freeride, is it?
    Originally I had a i23 built up as a spare DH rim. I have been destroying 823s lately so I wanted a cheap back up. Although I was timid with it as a back wheel I still put some abuse into it. I decided to get a more specific DH rim and had the i23 laced to a 142 hub for my Chilcotin. Sounds like we ride about the same, and I have not had any durability problems thus far. But to be fair, these are not FR rims, and I don't expect them to hold up well to a hard case.
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    i just finished bulding up my 26" frequency rims laced to my old '08 hope pro ii hubs (20 mm front, 135 rear) with dt comp double butted spokes and brass nipples. weight with stans yellow tape applied and tubeless valves installed is 848 g front, 1100 g rear, total 1948 g! saving me over 500 grams compared to my previous setup (mavic 823's, same hubs). If anyone wants to know, spoke lengths I used (from wheelpro's calculator) were front: left 258, right 260 rear: left 259, right 258. Perfect wheelset for my santa cruz butcher.
    '18 banshee rune

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    Just finished a 29er build w/i23s. This is my first foray into TL and was curious if anyone has experience running WTB race series tires (Bronson/Vulpine specifically) on these rims? I know I can run them tubed but have read others w/good experiences on Stan's and various UST rims.

  169. #169
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    Eugenemtbing ran a Bronson race tire with the round bead tubeless on his Frequency i23 rim, and had problems with it staying on. Once he switched to a Bronson TCS with the square bead he has had no more problems.

    Quote Originally Posted by JarOwl View Post
    Just finished a 29er build w/i23s. This is my first foray into TL and was curious if anyone has experience running WTB race series tires (Bronson/Vulpine specifically) on these rims? I know I can run them tubed but have read others w/good experiences on Stan's and various UST rims.
    Hey everybody, ride my wheels! They ride good, real good.
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  170. #170
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    I finally, with a helluva lot of help from the guys at my shop, got mine built up! Lefty hub on the front Shimano M475 on the rear, DT Swiss Champion spokes, black brass Wheelsmith nipples! Can't wait to try 'em out on the trail!
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  171. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by JarOwl View Post
    Just finished a 29er build w/i23s. This is my first foray into TL and was curious if anyone has experience running WTB race series tires (Bronson/Vulpine specifically) on these rims? I know I can run them tubed but have read others w/good experiences on Stan's and various UST rims.
    I've only tried them with Specialized 2bliss tires which work very well. I have a Hans Dampf on the way to me in the mail. I'll report on that, hopefully within a week or so.

  172. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by ehigh View Post
    I'm looking to beat these up on some aggressive all mountain riding. I like to case some bigger landings from time to time, you know, eating dirt on gaps with 15+ feet of clearance. In reality I like to roll away on it nice and smoothly, but you never know what a rim is going to have to take.

    Does everyone think these things can take a serious beating? All I do is put my 6 inch AM Norco Range through the trails. I'm just tired of rims being listed as "all mountain" when they can't take some hell from a patch of granite or shale. I feel that AM includes some mild drops and hucks from time to time. That's not freeride, is it?
    I toiled over the decision to buy these for some of the same reasons but decided I could (and did) flat spot heavier costly rims too. Well I do have a mild flat spot now, never heard the strike, and it did come through the top wall ever so slightly. I'm not disapointed really due to the price but I would call these cross country/trail rims. Def not all mountain.
    Cheers!

  173. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by fermenter View Post
    I toiled over the decision to buy these for some of the same reasons but decided I could (and did) flat spot heavier costly rims too. Well I do have a mild flat spot now, never heard the strike, and it did come through the top wall ever so slightly. I'm not disapointed really due to the price but I would call these cross country/trail rims. Def not all mountain.
    Cheers!
    I dont like to hear that! i bought these hoping they would be at least as strong as the flow's which held up great for me in the past.

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    Quote Originally Posted by historeeteacher View Post
    OK...just looking for clarification: Do all "tubeless ready" tires have square shaped UST beads? Is this true for all manufacturers that offer tubeless ready tires? If so, can this be 100% confirmed (i.e. anyone actually heard/read this from credible sources?

    I want to mount at Schwalbe Nobby Nic tubeless to my Frequency i23 29er rims.
    Just wanted to let you and everyone else know i set up the 29er i23's with a nobby nic 2.25 SS on the rear and a hans dampf on the front and they both sealed up great...there was some good beadlock too when i deflated the tire.
    i only have one ride on them but no burping and are holding air good.

  175. #175
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    One person's FR is another's AM. One's AM is another's Trail. One's Trail is another's XC. The labels are just that: Labels.

    A Frequency i23 is not likely going to hold up to consistent 6ft drops and and bigger jumps. It should do okay with 3-4ft drops and medium jumps.

    Rider weight, riding style, terrain type, bike design, wheel design lifetime, and etc. all factor into how well a set of wheels will work for a rider.

    Happy riding!

    Quote Originally Posted by fermenter View Post
    I toiled over the decision to buy these for some of the same reasons but decided I could (and did) flat spot heavier costly rims too. Well I do have a mild flat spot now, never heard the strike, and it did come through the top wall ever so slightly. I'm not disapointed really due to the price but I would call these cross country/trail rims. Def not all mountain.
    Cheers!
    Hey everybody, ride my wheels! They ride good, real good.
    I'm a wheel builder. SRLPE Wheel Works. Send me a PM.

  176. #176
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4slomo View Post
    One person's FR is another's AM. One's AM is another's Trail. One's Trail is another's XC. The labels are just that: Labels.

    A Frequency i23 is not likely going to hold up to consistent 6ft drops and and bigger jumps. It should do okay with 3-4ft drops and medium jumps.

    Rider weight, riding style, terrain type, bike design, wheel design lifetime, and etc. all factor into how well a set of wheels will work for a rider.

    Happy riding!
    Ha I agree with everything you said but I still wouldn't call 'em all mountain for the average rider. I am enjoying the lower cost and lighter weight. I hope WTB comes out with a beefier and wider version. I asked them and they won't tell so I think it is being worked on. How about an I27?

    I have given it 3-4 foot drops to flat, well maybee not 4, and it holds up. I think the flat spot is a rock strike as that is the normal cause of flat spots for me.

    Happy riding? Thanks! Many happy rides to you all.

  177. #177
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    A trend towards low, wide profile MTB rims seems to be emerging, so I'd think WTB too may come up with something like i27.
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  178. #178
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    well well see how mine holds up with roughish riding under my #220! i dont do big drops on that bike but do hit some rock gardens. If tehy come out with an i27 thatd be awesome, replace my heavy halo combats on my blindside.
    '18 banshee rune

  179. #179
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    Quote Originally Posted by murrdogg11 View Post
    I dont like to hear that! i bought these hoping they would be at least as strong as the flow's which held up great for me in the past.
    My thought...........
    If he's flat spotting beefier rims too, it's not all the rim. The tire pressure and shock tuning to the big hits should probably be considered.

    We all want the best ride in all conditions, but we need to plan for the worst hits. Those are the things that break bike parts and body parts.
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  180. #180
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    Quote Originally Posted by ziscwg View Post
    My thought...........
    If he's flat spotting beefier rims too, it's not all the rim. The tire pressure and shock tuning to the big hits should probably be considered.

    We all want the best ride in all conditions, but we need to plan for the worst hits. Those are the things that break bike parts and body parts.

    It's my tire pressure for sure but I am running more pressure because I measured these walls to be thinner than the 721's they replaced. As strong as Flows? I couldn't tell you but some people say Flows are soft.

    Rear tire (singlewall EXO) is at 30psi for a Maxxis 2.4 and 32 psi for 2.5. The 2.5's are slightly shorter than the 2.4's you know.

    Flat spots will be my cost of riding at a low pressure no matter what. I don't think I will raise the pressure much. Shock tuning is where I like it.

    I like the rims. I can flick the bike around a little bit more with them. Good times. I'd pay a bit more and give up some light weight for the I27 if they make it.
    Wanted 823's for ever. Now I don't think I want to go that heavy after riding these I23's.

    Cheers!

  181. #181
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    WTB i19 29er, CK ISO, DT Swiss Comp - 1500grams

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesnorton View Post
    just picked up a set of CK hubs laced to 29er wtb frequency i19's pretty darn light. however i didn't get to weigh in grams but under 4lbs for the set w/o cassette.
    I had the same:1500 grams the set.
    Front comes in at 660gms and the rear at 840gms.
    Photo attached.

    Of course, the weight savings was canceled out when I went with Bronson 2.2 in front and Wolverine 2.2 in the back, as well as a dropper post (not pictured)... but boy do I love the set up!
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails WTB Frequency i23 AM wheelset: alternative to Flow rims-img_1475_lores.jpg  


  182. #182
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    I've had mine built up for roughly months now. Tubeless setup was a piece of cake, the wheels feel very stiff, the extra width of the 23mm inner profile gave me gobs more traction, no pinch flats since I got 'em, and they look super clean. Took the stickers off during building because truing them with the stickers on was a bit annoying. Working very well with the Lefty too!
    WTB Frequency i23 AM wheelset: alternative to Flow rims-goodrim.jpg

    And then this happened...
    WTB Frequency i23 AM wheelset: alternative to Flow rims-brokenrim.jpg

    I had noticed the rear wheel was out of true yesterday when I was just cruising around the neighborhood bike path. I had decided I'd take it into the shop today and get it all trued up, figuring it was because of the rim's natural break in period. But when I put it up on my stand to get it all cleaned up before taking it into the shop...I noticed a spoke nipple had torn right through the spoke hole! Yaaaay! I've only had the things for a few months so they SHOULD be warrantied, and it's likely just a manufacturing defect. Still not exactly happy about it!
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    4slomo, I'm interested in the i19's rather than the i23's. The 23s' strength is unquestionable to me, can't tell that about the 19's though. What do you think, will an i19 build with supercomps work fine on a hardtail (Giant XTC Aluminum) used a 60-65 kilo rider for commuting round the city (basically everyday riding, using the bike instead of a car or public transport)? The rider is skilled, but still has to jump down from curbs (we have a lot of these in Russia, no dedicated bike roads at all you see) or small obstacles.

    The professional wheel builder we have here said our rim choice was basically crap and the rims will be dead soon, is that true?

    Thank you!

  184. #184
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaWiseNuthatch View Post
    4slomo, I'm interested in the i19's rather than the i23's. The 23s' strength is unquestionable to me, can't tell that about the 19's though. What do you think, will an i19 build with supercomps work fine on a hardtail (Giant XTC Aluminum) used a 60-65 kilo rider for commuting round the city (basically everyday riding, using the bike instead of a car or public transport)? The rider is skilled, but still has to jump down from curbs (we have a lot of these in Russia, no dedicated bike roads at all you see) or small obstacles.

    The professional wheel builder we have here said our rim choice was basically crap and the rims will be dead soon, is that true?

    Thank you!
    I think that, provided the build is good, you should be fine with i19/super comps at your weight and intended purpose. In around May this year I built a set of those with Sapim Race for a guy slightly heavier than you, and he didn't complain yet.


    What does worry me is that fatigue failure pictured above, This may suggest big variance in quality of Frequency series rims.
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  185. #185
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    What does worry me is that fatigue failure pictured above, This may suggest big variance in quality of Frequency series rims.
    Apparently it was due to spoke tension being too high, at least that's what the woman at the warranty center told my bike shop. But I'm inclined to believe it was that accompanied by a manufacturing defect of some sorts. I'll give it an interior look when I get it back.

    Good news is that it WILL be warrantied and the replacement will be here in a day or so!
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    Honestly I prefer the eyleted Laser TCS, the generation before the Frequency. Removing eyelets doesn't bring any major advantage weightwise, but suits better for the not super-skilled wheel builder.

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    Quote Originally Posted by J. Random Psycho View Post
    I think that, provided the build is good, you should be fine with i19/super comps at your weight and intended purpose. In around May this year I built a set of those with Sapim Race for a guy slightly heavier than you, and he didn't complain yet.


    What does worry me is that fatigue failure pictured above, This may suggest big variance in quality of Frequency series rims.
    Well this is for my mother, not for me, I don't commute daily, too boring

    As far as the picture above, it does worry me, indeed, but well crap happens I called wtb yesterday, they said the i19's should be fine, and gave me the recommended spoke tension values, so that the builder doesn't overtighten the spokes, well if he has the required tension tools of course.

  188. #188
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    4slomo, in the first post you specified a 120kgf max tension, whereas a wtb representative I was talking to yesterday told me 110kgf is the maximum for both the i19's and i23's. Is 10kgf that much of a difference? Which manuals / techdocs did you consult to find out the 120kgf value?

    Thank you!

  189. #189
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    120 kgf is typical tension for most rims and hubs. I'd think that WTB must have gathered enough failure reports since the Frequency rims were released to suggest slightly lower tension.

    Dammit. I've been building all Frequency wheels with 120 kgf.
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    Now there's this new Flow EX.. so many options these days And I don't quite like the pic above, should I now be selling both the i19 and i23 to an unlucky guy and get the ZTR? Now ZTR is sometimes said to be crap as well, like it's too soft and goes out of true quite often.. who's right dammit? Or are all those rims faulty except DeeMax?

  191. #191
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaWiseNuthatch View Post
    Now there's this new Flow EX.. so many options these days And I don't quite like the pic above, should I now be selling both the i19 and i23 to an unlucky guy and get the ZTR? Now ZTR is sometimes said to be crap as well, like it's too soft and goes out of true quite often.. who's right dammit? Or are all those rims faulty except DeeMax?
    Have you had any issues? If not, keep riding them.

  192. #192
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    when I called wtb to get max rec. tension a few months ago on teh i23 26" rim, she said, between 110 and 118 kgf. I built them at 113 or so.
    '18 banshee rune

  193. #193
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shalom View Post
    Have you had any issues? If not, keep riding them.
    I prefer not to wait until I face issues

    Well let's try then. Anybody know how real the WTB warranty is? Will they send a replacement rim to Russia, any experience with that anybody?

  194. #194
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    I wouldnt worry too much about that one picture on this thread of a pulled-out nipple. Looks like simply the result of overtension to me. Getting Flows instaed isnt the answer, they have an evemn lower recommended tension.
    '18 banshee rune

  195. #195
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    Wink

    I received an email from WTB today confirming that the Frequency rims are designed for a maximum spoke tension of 125kgf. I had mentioned that I have been building to a maximum of 120kgf, and the response was that my maximum tensions were "perfect." Remember that inexpensive spoke tension meters may not give accurate spoke tensions, and that if your spokes are overtensioned the nipples may pull through the rim spoke holes.

    The WTB catalog has a recommended ETRTO tire size range of 28-62mm for the i19 rims. If you are jumping down from curbs and small objects, I would consider riding tire widths of 56-60mm to get sufficient internal tire volume to prevent flat spotting the rims. Some people find that tires wider than 55mm have better support when mounted on a wider rim, such as the i23 rim. Think of the i19 rim as a rim for riding smooth surfaces (such as for smooth trails) and the i23 rim as a rim for riding rough surfaces (such as for rough trails).

    I also like Competition spokes better than Supercompetitions, double butted with a 2.0mm spoke diameter at the rim, and brass nipples rather than aluminum nipples for increased durability.

    Quote Originally Posted by DaWiseNuthatch View Post
    4slomo, I'm interested in the i19's rather than the i23's. The 23s' strength is unquestionable to me, can't tell that about the 19's though. What do you think, will an i19 build with supercomps work fine on a hardtail (Giant XTC Aluminum) used a 60-65 kilo rider for commuting round the city (basically everyday riding, using the bike instead of a car or public transport)? The rider is skilled, but still has to jump down from curbs (we have a lot of these in Russia, no dedicated bike roads at all you see) or small obstacles.

    The professional wheel builder we have here said our rim choice was basically crap and the rims will be dead soon, is that true?

    Thank you!
    Hey everybody, ride my wheels! They ride good, real good.
    I'm a wheel builder. SRLPE Wheel Works. Send me a PM.

  196. #196
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaWiseNuthatch View Post
    a wtb representative I was talking to yesterday told me 110kgf is the maximum for both the i19's and i23's.
    Quote Originally Posted by 4slomo View Post
    I received an email from WTB today confirming that the Frequency rims are designed for a maximum spoke tension of 125kgf. I had mentioned that I have been building to a maximum of 120kgf, and the response was that my maximum tensions were "perfect."
    26" rigid SS 4130 BB7 nylon-flats ESI latex-tubes non-lubricated-8spd

  197. #197
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    OK I see. But wait, aren't those i19 rims cross-country rated? Are there are no drops at all in cross-country, like they were riding on a parquet indoor track?

    Competitions + i23 + brand nipples == close to 1800 grams of a downhill wheelset, and I wanted to build a light hardtail here for commuting

    Looks like I'll have to sell these again and get some Sun Ringle's Inferno 23's with eyelets.

  198. #198
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    My new rear wheel is ready to go. Hope Pro II Evo 135 x 10mm thru axle on I23 26 inch rim. What to ensure the back of the trail bike was as stiff as possible while keeping the weight down. Will use it with a DT Swiss RWS, that I had from a previous setup.

    I mounted a new Muddy Mary 2.35 on it and was surprised at how tight it was. I kept the basic rim strip in place and used a tube to set it up. Hoping the tire will stretch out a bit as it was quite a struggle to get the tire on the I23 rim. Will let set for a day or so, then pull the rim strip and put a single layer of gorilla tape complete the tubeless setup. Already have the Stans valve stem and sealant.

    Can't wait to see the difference between this and the Sun Ringle Charger Expert that is now on the bike. The Chargers will be relegated to strict XC duties with some lighter weight tires. The I23 w Hope will be my main AM setup.

    I want to see if I am able to swap the end caps for a 12x142 setup and run this rear wheel on the back of my freeride bike for bigger pedal days as well. I took off the 10 x 135 caps and was happy to see a 12mm alxe inside (tested by running my 12 x 150 axle). I should be able to get rid of the second set of FR wheels and have a common set to use between the FR and trail bike. Hopefully the I23 is up to the task. It should as loads of folks have been running the original Flows on their FR bikes with success. If the I23 is equal in strength or prehaps stronger, then it should work great.

  199. #199
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    Although this is an i23 thread, I think i19 questions are just as well appropriate here:

    4slomo, do you think it is possible to use the cx ray with the i19's? Our local wheelbuilder is a big cx ray fan, but seeing the picture above, I'm not sure anymore. Not to say that the wheelbuilder says the "eyelet" drilling on the inside of the rim is uneven and low quality, have you ever come across such manufacturing defects with the Frequency rims?

    It may well be that I'll have to return the rims to chain reaction due to the bad eyelets, which is a royal hassle..

    Thank you!

  200. #200
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaWiseNuthatch View Post
    Our local wheelbuilder is a big cx ray fan, but seeing the picture above, I'm not sure anymore.
    Spoke cross section shape has nothing to do with spoke tension. Only cross section area matters, and it is enough in a CX-Ray for whatever maximum spoke tension allowed for Frequency rims.

    In other words, blame the rim or the build, but neither the spoke nor the nipple in the failure pictured.

    As for directional eyelet drilling quality, possible critical issues are:

    1. more material is removed than should be, or
    2. directionality is off.

    If they just seem rough in nipple contact areas, build with brass nipples for peace of mind.
    26" rigid SS 4130 BB7 nylon-flats ESI latex-tubes non-lubricated-8spd

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