From a wheelbuilder to riders: Please dont use spoke freeze.- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    From a wheelbuilder to riders: Please dont use spoke freeze.

    Dont buy wheels that have spoke freeze on them either. Theres no need for it. It makes repairing someone elses poor work incredibly difficult. Its also a pretty big sign that someone tossed them together real quick and doesnt want their sloppy work coming more loose.

    Ive only built wheels up from scratch until today. Today ive been repairing other peoples shoddy work. Its a learning experience for me too, and the methods needed to deal with a spoke-froze wheel suck.

    If you build your own wheels, save yourself the hassle and skip it too. You'll give yourself headaches later. Tight wheels stay tight!

    Maybe a sweeping bold statement... but from my experience, anti seize is *the* compound to use for all wheel builds under all conditions. Oil works alright, grease works alright, anti seize works incredible. It stops windup and it prevents corrosion. If you're looking to build, do yourself a favor and go straight to anti seize on the spoke threads and a few drops of oil on the rim/nipple interface.

  2. #2
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    Wheelsmith Spoke Prep. I use it exclusively, over 800 builds later.
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  3. #3
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    I used that before. It built up smooth and fine, really no issue. I feel anti seize builds easier. The end user wouldnt notice a difference though.

  4. #4
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    Bees wax.

    Slide the threads of each spoke across a chunk a few times before assembly, sticky enough to prevent anything coming loose, prevents any/all corrosion, and the nipple will always twist fine, even 30 years later.

  5. #5
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    Is that you, Marky-mark?
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  6. #6
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    As if there is another jackbombay? :-)

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Pivot View Post
    Dont buy wheels that have spoke freeze on them either. Theres no need for it. It makes repairing someone elses poor work incredibly difficult. Its also a pretty big sign that someone tossed them together real quick and doesnt want their sloppy work coming more loose.

    Ive only built wheels up from scratch until today. Today ive been repairing other peoples shoddy work. Its a learning experience for me too, and the methods needed to deal with a spoke-froze wheel suck.

    If you build your own wheels, save yourself the hassle and skip it too. You'll give yourself headaches later. Tight wheels stay tight!

    Maybe a sweeping bold statement... but from my experience, anti seize is *the* compound to use for all wheel builds under all conditions. Oil works alright, grease works alright, anti seize works incredible. It stops windup and it prevents corrosion. If you're looking to build, do yourself a favor and go straight to anti seize on the spoke threads and a few drops of oil on the rim/nipple interface.
    Why not anti-seize on the rim/nipple interface too? I'm about to build my first set of wheels and I was thinking of using a small brush to brush some anti-seize on the inside of the spoke hole.
    Also, I think people also use linseed oil? Maybe linseed oil on the rim/nipple interface and anti-seize on the spoke threads?

  8. #8
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    Anti seize on the spoke threads is where it counts, thats where all the binding/windup happens. Linseed oil is oldskool. It dries to a crusty sticky consistency that sort of freezes the spokes. I havent personally used it, but it goes against what I believe is necessary for a good build.

    I suppose theres no real reason to not use anti seize on the spoke holes too. Ive just found that oil works perfectly fine as theres less friction there than on the threads. I dont lube that area until I have nipples on, and oil is much easier to drip on. But all in all, anti seize for the threads over linseed oil.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by pwu_1 View Post
    Why not anti-seize on the rim/nipple interface too?
    I think its worthwhile using some anti-seize on the rim nipple interface of non-eyeletted rims esp. when using alu nips. I use a cotton bud dipped into anti-seize. Stick it through the spoke hole and a quick turn will smear a nice light layer.

  10. #10
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    Any tips for straight pull spokes & hub end?

  11. #11
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    Good tip, thanks pivot. Will try that instead of oil for my next build.

  12. #12
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    Well, having built my first wheelset a few weeks ago, I'm pretty sure my build would be considered "not up to a certain standard". That's why I will certainly have them tensionned properly when I get to it.

    Having said that, I did use oil for the spoke/nipple interface and also for the nipple/rim interface.

    I don't have a tensionmeter at this time, but if I decide to go ahead and build more wheels (I really enjoyed building my first set!) I will certainly invest. After about 20 hours of riding my new wheels, they are still very true and I'm happy with them. (Light Bicycle wide 26" carbon rim with MTB252 and MTB162 hubs, DT Aerolite spokes) I eye-balled tension by comparing with other wheels I have at home (road and mountain, about 9 sets total) and other wheels in stores. I know it's not the best way to go (far from it probably) but it hasn't been a problem for me, maybe due to my 130lbs weight

    BTW, thank you One Pivot for the hub recommendation, they have been great so far and I really like the sound they make!

    Johnnydrz.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by rideit View Post
    Wheelsmith Spoke Prep. I use it exclusively, over 800 builds later.
    You've handled aproximately 24,000 spokes! Hahaha.

    +1 to WS spokeprep.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by pwu_1 View Post
    Why not anti-seize on the rim/nipple interface too? I'm about to build my first set of wheels and I was thinking of using a small brush to brush some anti-seize on the inside of the spoke hole.
    Also, I think people also use linseed oil? Maybe linseed oil on the rim/nipple interface and anti-seize on the spoke threads?
    anti-seize is messy stuff and hard to clean up. Oil is sufficient. I use tri-flo.

  15. #15
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    Oil is definitely sufficient, Ive ive built lots of wheels with it... when I changed over to anti seize (no other change, same spokes and rims) I was amazed how much easier building became.

    Its all preference, if you're fine with oil stick with it... but no spoke freeze! Im still fighting this wheel

  16. #16
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    I have used Lindseed Oil on my past few builds. Been pretty happy with it. Probably overkill though.

    Just dont get it on your hub or wheel and let it dry!
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  17. #17
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    Well I've been using Spoke-Freeze on my wheels (not a professional wheel builder though) since I started building wheels back in the last century and I can't complain.

    Actually you have to pay attention on how to use it - there are two ways:

    1. metal on metal - Spoke Freeze will then act as a glue, glueing spoke and nipple together!
    2. Spoke Freeze applied to oiled threads will secure the nipple just enough and leave you with the option to readjust it any time later, should this be necessary

    Please see here: https://www.dtswiss.com/Resources/Su...User-Manual-en

    Especially asymmetrical wheels can be prone to spokes coming loose, especially when laced up with a delicate rim where not enough torque can be applied when tightening the nipple.

    I usually build up wheels with oil on thread and nipple/rim interface. When the wheel is finished I apply a drop of Spoke Freeze to the bottom of the nipple (the lower part, opposite of the slit), then spin the wheel and physics will drive it into to nipple and on to the oiled threads...

    I love it. Only, it's quite an investment for the occasional wheelset built - but lasts ages!

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by macrusher View Post
    Well I've been using Spoke-Freeze on my wheels (not a professional wheel builder though) since I started building wheels back in the last century and I can't complain.

    Actually you have to pay attention on how to use it - there are two ways:

    1. metal on metal - Spoke Freeze will then act as a glue, glueing spoke and nipple together!
    2. Spoke Freeze applied to oiled threads will secure the nipple just enough and leave you with the option to readjust it any time later, should this be necessary

    Please see here: https://www.dtswiss.com/Resources/Su...User-Manual-en

    Especially asymmetrical wheels can be prone to spokes coming loose, especially when laced up with a delicate rim where not enough torque can be applied when tightening the nipple.

    I usually build up wheels with oil on thread and nipple/rim interface. When the wheel is finished I apply a drop of Spoke Freeze to the bottom of the nipple (the lower part, opposite of the slit), then spin the wheel and physics will drive it into to nipple and on to the oiled threads...

    I love it. Only, it's quite an investment for the occasional wheelset built - but lasts ages!
    I hear ya, but if you're wheels are built well, then you don't need it. If you don't need it, why do it? I s'pose now that you're invested so you'll keep it up.
    Quote Originally Posted by pvd
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  19. #19
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    my understanding is that Spoke Freeze is to be used sparingly after a wheel is built, tensioned, relieved, and tensioned again. you're supposed to drip a single, tiny drop on the hub-facing end of the nipple so it seals up the interface between the spoke and the nipple. it's NOT supposed to be used the same way you use Spoke Prep.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Pivot View Post

    Its all preference, if you're fine with oil stick with it... but no spoke freeze! Im still fighting this wheel
    how's that workin out for ya?

  21. #21
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    I used to use Spoke Prep but it was way too time consuming to put on the threads as neatly as my OCD wants me to. I switched to Rock N Roll Lubes Nipple Cream on the threads and Phil Wood Tenacious Oil on the nipple-rim interface.
    Wheels build up nice and the R&R Nipple Cream installs quickly and dries pretty fast.
    I like turtles

  22. #22
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    Thirty years of builds, never used Spoke Freeze till a few years ago.

    Never had issues before it, and I do use it with oiled threads instead of dry, but I do like how it also seals out the elements a bit.

    Agreed on the mess of anti seize, that shit is like herpes, it just keeps on giving.....

    Had a set come in that the guy did himself (yay, not) with red Loctite on everything. Oy.
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  23. #23
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    Wow old thread resurrection! Since when I first posted in this thread I've built 8 sets of wheels and replaced the alloy nipples on 4 sets with brass nipples due to corrosion/potential corrosion. All were built using anti-seize on the spoke threads and nipple rim interface. Yes anti-seize is a major pain to clean up but for the rims where I replaced the nipples in all cases except one I was able to remove the old nipples without damaging(I think) the very expensive cx-Ray spokes. I might consider using oil on the rim-nipple interface on my next build to minimize the mess that anti-seize makes

  24. #24
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    I had a set of wheels come in on a bike I picked up for a friend and the wheels looked 'okay' at first but they were not tensioned very well. As soon as I started turning them they were snapping like mad. Didn't help that they were really thin ga spokes but after the 5th snap at random locations I said screw it and got another set of wheels. If I hadn't picked up the bike for so cheap it would have been more annoying. Later on perhaps they will all get clipped and replaced but it was too frustrating in the context. Considering how uncorroded the rest of the aluminum on that bike was it must have been a lock of some kind.
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  25. #25
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    Anyone remember Trek's Spoketite in the early 90s, with fondness?

    Didn't think so....
    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

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  26. #26
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    You only need a very thin coat of anti seize. If you're using enough to make a mess, its too much! I have a can of it and roll the threads on the top of can. No mess anywhere. II'll get a small dab on my finger running the nipple on, but oil does the same or worse.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by supersedona View Post
    I had a set of wheels come in on a bike I picked up for a friend and the wheels looked 'okay' at first but they were not tensioned very well. As soon as I started turning them they were snapping like mad. Didn't help that they were really thin ga spokes but after the 5th snap at random locations I said screw it and got another set of wheels. If I hadn't picked up the bike for so cheap it would have been more annoying. Later on perhaps they will all get clipped and replaced but it was too frustrating in the context. Considering how uncorroded the rest of the aluminum on that bike was it must have been a lock of some kind.
    The nipples were snapping? What would that have to do with spoke gauge?
    Quote Originally Posted by pvd
    Time to stop believing the hype and start doing some science.
    29er Tire Weight Database

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Pivot View Post
    You only need a very thin coat of anti seize. If you're using enough to make a mess, its too much! I have a can of it and roll the threads on the top of can. No mess anywhere. II'll get a small dab on my finger running the nipple on, but oil does the same or worse.
    I use it on the threads and nipple/rim contact, and have had really good builds...even on carbon hoops.

  29. #29
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    Anti-seize has been the best for me. Makes building so much easier, albeit more messy. I can run wheels for an entire season without having to retension. Never had I experienced that before.

  30. #30
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    I hear ya. My OCD goes overboard when building a wheel. But... I don't think my OCD can handle using something called nipple cream.

    Not that there is anything wrong with that.

  31. #31
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    I guess I'm old school.
    Learned to build wheels in the late 80's. Linseed oil was what we used. I've built hundreds of wheels with it, never had a problem. Use it to this day, same can.
    I have had nightmares with wheels that were built with some new-fangled "better" product. I'm sure that some are great, even better than Linseed. I know for a fact that some suck ass. So I stick with what I know, and have a big can of.
    Now you kids get off of my lawn!

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by rtsideup View Post
    I guess I'm old school.
    Learned to build wheels in the late 80's. Linseed oil was what we used. I've built hundreds of wheels with it, never had a problem. Use it to this day, same can.
    I have had nightmares with wheels that were built with some new-fangled "better" product. I'm sure that some are great, even better than Linseed. I know for a fact that some suck ass. So I stick with what I know, and have a big can of.
    Now you kids get off of my lawn!
    It's well documented that wheels with sufficient spoke tension don't suffer from nipples unscrewing even if the ultimate thread lube is used - anti-seize. I learned to build wheels in the early '60s and I never heard of linseed (as a spoke thread lube) until about the '80s. So I learned by using oil and later - from the early '70s onwards - with anti-seize. That era coincided with my career as an auto mechanic and it was the norm that A/S was used on threads that didn't need locking in place. Plus the job provided me with free A/S. I have my original can to this day that followed me home.

    I don't remember the last nipple that unscrewed because I didn't use a thread locker of some formula.

    So, maybe your nipples wouldn't have unscrewed if you hadn't used linseed?

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by MendonCycleSmith View Post
    Thirty years of builds, never used Spoke Freeze till a few years ago.

    Never had issues before it, and I do use it with oiled threads instead of dry, but I do like how it also seals out the elements a bit.
    On my commuter bike, I add a drop of oil to the spokes & nipples at the beginning and middle of every winter to keep the nipples from corroding & seizing up. On my other bikes I'll spin a nipple every now & then to see how they feel and add a drop of lube when they start feeling a bit rough. Some of my wheels have gone a good 4-5 years with no lube added while others need a refresh every couple years or so, it all depends on what conditions the wheels get ridden in.

  34. #34
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    Mike I totally agree. Many spoke preps work well and a few totally suck. I don't have any experience with the anti-seize that you're refering to but, I'll take your word that it doe's the job. I'm just saying that, in my experience, linseed oil works too. In working on other builds, it's rare the that I have a problem with spokes loosening but, rather some sort of thread locker keeping me from truing the wheel.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike T. View Post
    It's well documented that wheels with sufficient spoke tension don't suffer from nipples unscrewing even if the ultimate thread lube is used - anti-seize. I learned to build wheels in the early '60s and I never heard of linseed (as a spoke thread lube) until about the '80s. So I learned by using oil and later - from the early '70s onwards - with anti-seize. That era coincided with my career as an auto mechanic and it was the norm that A/S was used on threads that didn't need locking in place. Plus the job provided me with free A/S. I have my original can to this day that followed me home.

    I don't remember the last nipple that unscrewed because I didn't use a thread locker of some formula.

    So, maybe your nipples wouldn't have unscrewed if you hadn't used linseed?

  35. #35
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    Another vote for anit-seize

    Back in the day I would ride my bike like an idiot and pedal stream crossings deep enough to submerge the bottom bracket. Of course the nipples were solid balls of corrosion inside the rim but spun right off the spokes because of the anti-seize.

    Its super messy and I've grown super lazy. I just use clear grease now and carry the bike over deep streams.

  36. #36
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    Probably should have read this prior to my first and only wheel build to date, but then again being an aircraft mechanic I knew to use antisieze on things I need to move at a later date.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Pivot View Post
    Dont buy wheels that have spoke freeze on them either. Theres no need for it. It makes repairing someone elses poor work incredibly difficult. Its also a pretty big sign that someone tossed them together real quick and doesnt want their sloppy work coming more loose.

    Ive only built wheels up from scratch until today. Today ive been repairing other peoples shoddy work. Its a learning experience for me too, and the methods needed to deal with a spoke-froze wheel suck.

    If you build your own wheels, save yourself the hassle and skip it too. You'll give yourself headaches later. Tight wheels stay tight!

    Maybe a sweeping bold statement... but from my experience, anti seize is *the* compound to use for all wheel builds under all conditions. Oil works alright, grease works alright, anti seize works incredible. It stops windup and it prevents corrosion. If you're looking to build, do yourself a favor and go straight to anti seize on the spoke threads and a few drops of oil on the rim/nipple interface.

    Heavy guys will have their spokes loosen up in a very short amount of time. I have had wheelbuilders who refused to use spoke freeze for my wheels and have had nipples actually unscrew completely or to the point you can turn them with your fingers after a handful of rides. I always use spoke freeze on my wheels, i put a drop on each spoke after the wheel is built, trued and tensioned, then I spin the wheel for a few minutes and wipe off any excess, sometimes I need to do this twice. The wheel can still be trued afterwards but unless you whack it pretty hard it typically doesn't need to be. Don't believe me, strap an extra hundred lbs on yourself and ride around for a few weeks. : )

  38. #38
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    Full disclosure first. I learned to build wheels over 12 years ago off MTBR alone. Back then these boards were against any type of thread locker (linseed, spokeprep, locktite) for a "properly built" wheel. So I have a bias against them.

    I just repaired a broken bladed spoke on a wheel that had used Spokeprep and I got to say compared to anti-seize it was a pita. I loosen all the bladed spokes to retension the wheel and I could feel and see a ton of wind up. The nipple on the replacement spoke spun freely. I am still lazy and didn't clean off the Spokeprep. I just dripped oil on the nipples, anti-seize is still super messy.

  39. #39
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    I've built my last few wheels with extensive anti-seize. I highly recommend.
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  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigrobpage View Post
    Heavy guys will have their spokes loosen up in a very short amount of time.
    That only happens when the build wasn't done properly in the first place or inappropriate choices are made in the parts selection for the build, for example, Crests or some other lightweight noodle of a rim for a heavy rider. Use a strong enough rim, build it right, and it'll never come loose. I've built a number of wheels for 250lbs+ riders and none of them have ever had the spokes loosen off, and none of them have spoke freeze. They've stayed tight & true for years because I chose good strong rims, built them up with proper tension, and fully stress relieved the spokes.

  41. #41
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    I use oil on the thread and the spoke bed and it works fine. No sign of the spokes coming loose or anything. I don't understand why you would need anything else?

    If I did it for a living and got handed a seized up wheel I'd offer to cut the spokes and remake the wheel rather than waste a ton of time on what should be a simple, two-minute job. There is a Mavic wheels with propitiatory spokes hanging up in my local wheel-builders. Nothing he can do with it. Spokes are stuck fast in the nipples and Mavic don't make the spokes any more so the wheel is scrap.

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    If you don't like spoke freeze, what about DT Swiss pro-lock nipples?

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by thefan View Post
    If you don't like spoke freeze, what about DT Swiss pro-lock nipples?
    It's been proved by many of us over many sets of wheels over many years - those things are not needed in properly assembled wheels. To use them as a crutch is to accept and promote bad wheelbuilding practices. To use them where they are not needed is a waste of money and can make wheels harder to work on in the future and (especially in the case of mechanically locking nipples like Sapim Secure Lock) add to spoke windup or twist.

  44. #44
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    We used DT prolocks for awhile at GravityWorx. Hate 'em. Inconsistent amount of prep inside the nipples. Some had so much prep that they'd bind up before reaching tension and strip the threads right out of the nipples. Wound up removing and throwing away 10-15% of them on an average build. We started using Sapim Secure Lock nipples about three months ago and have had zero problems since.

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by aerius View Post
    That only happens when the build wasn't done properly in the first place or inappropriate choices are made in the parts selection for the build, for example, Crests or some other lightweight noodle of a rim for a heavy rider. Use a strong enough rim, build it right, and it'll never come loose. I've built a number of wheels for 250lbs+ riders and none of them have ever had the spokes loosen off, and none of them have spoke freeze. They've stayed tight & true for years because I chose good strong rims, built them up with proper tension, and fully stress relieved the spokes.
    ^^^THIS^^^

    I've build a total of ONE set of wheels. Followed Mike T's instructions, used a light smear of marine grease on the nipple seats (applied with a Q-tip), anti-seize on the spoke threads. WTB 29" i25 hoops, BHS hubs, Sapim double butted spokes, Sapim aluminum nipples. I trued them once after a year on them from initial build (and they didn't really need it as it was)....I ride mostly rough, rocky, rooty PA singletrack. I also weight north of 300lbs. I'll soon be re-building the factory wheels with the factory hubs and rims....new spokes and nipples. I'm sure they'll be the same way when I'm done.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rock Garden View Post
    ^^^THIS^^^

    I've build a total of ONE set of wheels. Followed Mike T's instructions, used a light smear of marine grease on the nipple seats (applied with a Q-tip), anti-seize on the spoke threads. WTB 29" i25 hoops, BHS hubs, Sapim double butted spokes, Sapim aluminum nipples. I trued them once after a year on them from initial build (and they didn't really need it as it was)....I ride mostly rough, rocky, rooty PA singletrack. I also weight north of 300lbs. I'll soon be re-building the factory wheels with the factory hubs and rims....new spokes and nipples. I'm sure they'll be the same way when I'm done.
    ^^^THAT^^^ Yep built them with the right parts (for the rider/terrain) and build them correctly and they will never loosen off. I'm happy you did it right Rock. As my site says - take the correct steps and anyone can build a wheelset, even their first wheelset, as good as anyone's.

  47. #47
    SpoK Werks Handmade Goods
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    I used to use Wheelsmith's spok prep but since I moved to Europe and spoke prep seems to be non-existent, I've started using Linseed Oil and it works quite well. If you search for spoke prep. over here all you can find is DT Swiss Spoke Freeze. :-(

  48. #48
    Mtbr Morvs
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    thanks for the heads up on the DT Spoke Freeze, it's frick'n expensive anyhow! should i use anti seize on new 29 carbon wheelset which the spokes are coming loose after 4 mo? thanks again!
    MoreMorvs ⚡️⚡️🕹

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by JMorvs View Post
    thanks for the heads up on the DT Spoke Freeze, it's frick'n expensive anyhow! should i use anti seize on new 29 carbon wheelset which the spokes are coming loose after 4 mo? thanks again!
    Are your spokes tight enough?
    I like turtles

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike T. View Post
    It's been proved by many of us over many sets of wheels over many years - those things are not needed in properly assembled wheels. To use them as a crutch is to accept and promote bad wheelbuilding practices. To use them where they are not needed is a waste of money and can make wheels harder to work on in the future and (especially in the case of mechanically locking nipples like Sapim Secure Lock) add to spoke windup or twist.
    You're welcome to your opinion but I don't think that it amounts to having "proved" anything. And calling them a crutch? Promoting bad wheelbuilding practices?

    That's just silliness, bordering on ignorance.

    I use anti seize when a customer wants nips that are colored other than black or red.

    For red and black nips I use Prolocks. Sort of a belt-and-suspenders approach. Perfectly balanced tension is great and we all work toward it on every wheel. But not every wheel is treated the same, and whether you admit it (or even know it) or not sometimes wheels take hard hits and nips can unwind. At least with anti-seize they can. Not with Prolocks.

    They do require the extra step of adding a dot of lube before truing or retensioning many years down the road.

  51. #51
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    Zombie thread!

    So I bought some linseed oil for a wood working project. That is the nastiest shit I've ever used for anything! It smells like a hooker with STD's, and it smells that way for a long, long time. I ended up junking the wood project.

    Gross. I'll stick with anti seize for wheels, and epoxy coatings for wood.

    Also, wheels are so stiff, wide, and widely spaced that I think they're more reliable than ever. Good stuff.

  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Pivot View Post
    So I bought some linseed oil for a wood working project. That is the nastiest shit I've ever used for anything! It smells like a hooker with STD's, and it smells that way for a long, long time. I ended up junking the wood project.
    How do you know what a hooker with STDs smells like?

  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by aerius View Post
    How do you know what a hooker with STDs smells like?
    I'm here for a good time, not for a long time!

    That was actually the more polite way of describing vwhat my wife told me it smells like.

  54. #54
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    What anti-seize are you guys using? I have copper anti-seize that I use for work on my Land Cruiser when replacing nuts and bolts and when I rebuilt the head. Would that potentially cause any issues when I end up building another wheelset?

  55. #55
    Barely in control
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    I use ARP Torque grease with Sapim Secure Lock DSN nipples. It's basically petroleum based grease with some extra friction lowering compounds. This allows the nipple to still turn smoothly at high tension, but over time the grease dries a bit and gives a little resistance to turning. It keeps water out. It also goes on the nipple seat so I can use one jar of goo for everything. Although I don't use a jar, I put it in a 50cc syringe with a 10ga IV catheter I bummed of an ambulance crew. That way everything stays clean.

  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by gregnash View Post
    What anti-seize are you guys using? I have copper anti-seize that I use for work on my Land Cruiser when replacing nuts and bolts and when I rebuilt the head. Would that potentially cause any issues when I end up building another wheelset?
    In theory, the copper stuff can mix with water and form some sort of corrosion. I've used it for years without issue. I think its slightly thicker and slightly less messy than the silver. I'll keep using it, but I suppose in theory if you ride somewhere extremely wet it could be an issue?

    They sell it in mini toothpaste tubes. I think thats the easiest way to go. I apply it straight onto the threads from the tube and it doesnt make a horrible mess. The tiny 99 cent one use plastic packages are the worst.

  57. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Pivot View Post
    In theory, the copper stuff can mix with water and form some sort of corrosion. I've used it for years without issue. I think its slightly thicker and slightly less messy than the silver. I'll keep using it, but I suppose in theory if you ride somewhere extremely wet it could be an issue?

    They sell it in mini toothpaste tubes. I think thats the easiest way to go. I apply it straight onto the threads from the tube and it doesnt make a horrible mess. The tiny 99 cent one use plastic packages are the worst.
    Ah ok... yeah I live in the High Desert so "moisture" like you are talking is not an issue.
    I have a large tub of it that I have used over the years as I rebuild/replace stuff on my LC so no issues there, would more than likely just get a small painters brush to use it.

    Other option would be the aerosol version that is meant as a gasket bond, slightly different composition but still a copper based anti-seize. But again, with the small tubes of it that is your best bet if you don't already have it laying around.

  58. #58
    Never trust a fart
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    I've used Wheelsmith Spoke Prep on a number of builds. None have needed truing or have come loose after initial build. Even my lightweight Crest build. And I'm 220 lbs.

  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by gregnash View Post
    Ah ok... yeah I live in the High Desert so "moisture" like you are talking is not an issue.
    It's for when you accidentally put a tear in the rim tape with a tire lever and some sealant squirts into the rim cavity.

  60. #60
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    In days past, I used linseed oil or Spoke prep. Nowadays, it's grease, good tension, and double butted spokes.

    Be careful with linseed oil. Ball up some wet rags or paper towels and they'll spontaneously combust. I've had it happen.
    Do the math.

  61. #61
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    Teflon spoke prep on threads and Remington gun oil on the nipple to rim interface.
    "These things are very fancy commuter bikes or really bad dirt bikes, but they are not mountain bikes." - J. Mac

  62. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Pivot View Post
    I'm here for a good time, not for a long time!

    That was actually the more polite way of describing vwhat my wife told me it smells like.
    I really want to know what your wife called it.
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  63. #63
    eri
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    Wow it’s great that this thread is back to life.

    I’ve built wheels as a rider since the late 80s, never heard of ‘spoke freeze’ intuitively it sounds like a terrible idea. I used Phil grease for years. It washes out and then nipples will corrode onto spokes, which was bad.

    I started using blue locktite after reading a race car fastener book, which in turn continuously cited aviation fastener knowledge that was figured out during ww2. You need the locktite to seal the threads from oxygen. It also acts like a lube when tensioning. I now use a tiny dab of locktite 242 on each spoke. No mess that I can see, it dries white.

    Threads on spokes are correctly designed. They hold when they’re kept tensioned. If you have a flexy wheel they’ll loosen, but also you’ll fatigue your spokes. An unloaded spoke means others are seeing more tension. Flexy wheel isn’t made durable with spoke lock.

    Most recent wheels I built I used long alloy sapim nipples prelubed with a thread sealant. I used grease on nipple/rim interface but no thread prep and have had no issue but won’t know truth for years longer. I loved the positive grip on those long nipples.

    As others have said, linseed oil is dangerous on rags. No joke, be careful.

    Lots more knowledgeable people than me. Anyone see an issue with using locktite 242?

  64. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by eri View Post
    Lots more knowledgeable people than me. Anyone see an issue with using locktite 242?

    Blue loctite works OK. I'd much rather use DT Prolocks.

  65. #65
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    Heat will break down Loctite/Spoke Freeze.

  66. #66
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    one drop of the dt red loc tite on the hub side of the nipple works great. easy to break loose using spline drive nipples.

  67. #67
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    Using no locker works great too.

    Unless it's a DH wheelset under someone who breaks stuff, I don't have problems with loosening.

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