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  1. #1
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    What's I9 Have Up Their Sleeve?

    Current hubs are being discounted everywhere and there is a big I9 release happening tomorrow. What do you think the changes are going to be?

    I'm thinking maybe some weight savings on the hubs and possibly some different threaded spoke count options?!?!

  2. #2
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    New Hydra Drive...690 points of engagement. Goes live tomorrow I believe.

  3. #3
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    I dunno. I'm about to buy some I9 hubs for a wheel build and I want to see what they've got before I order some. Maybe I just wind up buying some discounted Torch Classics, which wouldn't be a bad thing. But maybe the new stuff is worth it.

    I'm planning to get the microspline freehub body for the new XTR at least, so we'll see tomorrow.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pelly_NH View Post
    New Hydra Drive...690 points of engagement. Goes live tomorrow I believe.
    Sounds interesting. I will be watching for it.

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    Ohh, I know! Well, I know part of it because I ordered new hubs and because of a shipping error, I'm getting the new ones instead of the Torch's. Wheel builder just called to let me know.
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  6. #6
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    Definitely will keep an eye on this. I have I9s on 2 bikes and was about to order some MicroSpline Torches for a new wheel build.

  7. #7
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    We should start a pool. I'll take the something quieter square.
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    I'll take the star ratchet-esque option square. If they increase the diameter of the ratchet and stuff it in the hub shell, they could get 80 poe out of it, maybe more.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schulze View Post
    I'll take the star ratchet-esque option square. If they increase the diameter of the ratchet and stuff it in the hub shell, they could get 80 poe out of it, maybe more.
    I don't think so, if the post above is correct (690 points of engagement) seems like that'd have to involve multiple pawls with offset engagement relative to one another, like a supercharged version of Torch. Right now I believe they use 6 pawls and 40 teeth, with the pawls working in pairs offset to one another to give 120 points of engagement. If it's really 690, could be something bonkers like 12 paired pawls and 115 teeth on the ratchet. It does seem like that'd produce a high-pitched scream at speed, so maybe it'll be quieter too.

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    A vendor posted this on FB a few days ago...
    What's I9 Have Up Their Sleeve?-rbikes.jpg

  11. #11
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    I like those pawl springs much better. Hadley uses a lever spring sort of like that.
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  12. #12
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    Well that's different.

  13. #13
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    Looks cool. Wonder if it's backward compatible to existing Torch hubshells? Seems a new FHB and toothed ring could do it.

  14. #14
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    Don't like it. looks like more drag and sound. Also axle flex to get more than 1 paw to engage seems dubious.
    Making shit harder than it needs to be isn't awesome, it's just...harder.

  15. #15
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    Intriguing! Looks like they took a blend of sprag clutch and pawl system concepts to come up with this which, on the surface, looks to be a big improvement over their dated pawl design which had way too much drag for my tastes. Now if they would just source their bearings from a more consistent supplier...

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  16. #16
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    Looks interesting, I'll be curious how the sound changes. I'll probably pick up a pair in the next few months for the new bike! I'm sure there will be loads of video come tomorrow.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by alexbn921 View Post
    Don't like it. looks like more drag and sound. Also axle flex to get more than 1 paw to engage seems dubious.
    Dunno how it's dubious. the axle flex happens, anyway. especially on wider hubs.

    the real question I've got is whether it makes enough of a difference to warrant the $75 price jump on a hubset. Hopefully tomorrow, I9 has some videos where they show it actually working.

    I'm not really seeing anyone blowing out older I9 Torch hubs yet. Jenson has SOME of them marked down 15%, but of course, they don't have the spec I'd want anyway. I might still buy the old/current Torch Classics, especially considering the price increase and the prospect of some sort of discount on old stock.

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    They were 30%off on Fanatik. All but sold out now.

  19. #19
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    Curious how these will sound. If itís super annoying Iíll be going onyx. But the weight of these is better. Oh, and hopefully the drag is okay. It says improvements, but compared to what?

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    115 tooth ring, 690 POE and 6 pawls means only one is engaged at a time.
    Do the math.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lone Rager View Post
    115 tooth ring, 690 POE and 6 pawls means only one is engaged at a time.
    No, their pawls have a little notch on the end that creates a second engagement point on each. This is out of phase with the first tooth. So you effectively have 12 engagement point on the pawls; I assume pairs of pawls across the hub engage together.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lone Rager View Post
    115 tooth ring, 690 POE and 6 pawls means only one is engaged at a time.
    Wow, not sure how I feel about that. How can one pawl even hold up to the torque of Eagle or the like?

    Edit: explained better above. So are we thinking itís 2 pawls engaged at once?

  23. #23
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    So my first reaction was that this is the stupidest idea ever, to only engage a single pawl on tiny teeth. But now I feel like there is at least a solid possibility that this is a great example of slyly clever and outside the box thinking. I'm not giving up my gloriously silent and strong Onyx hubs to find out, but I may have new respect for i9 if these prove to be reliable hubs since I have always thought they were overrated in the past.

    There was a recent post about the failure modes of pawl drive hubs, focused on partial engagement and this is something I have had experience with in the past. It looks to me like they are essentially taking this failure mode and making it a core component of their function. Which greatly reduces the potential for that type of failure and turns it into an asset. That is, if it works, and I will assume a company like i9 has put some effort into testing these things.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lone Rager View Post
    115 tooth ring, 690 POE and 6 pawls means only one is engaged at a time.
    pretty sure there will be videos and animated gifs in slow-mo explaining what's going on once the official news breaks tomorrow.

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    True, the years of testing has probably proven them to be somewhat reliable if they are releasing them.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lone Rager View Post
    115 tooth ring, 690 POE and 6 pawls means only one is engaged at a time.
    One pawl catches, it flexes the axle, thus making the other pawls catch.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrewBird View Post
    No, their pawls have a little notch on the end that creates a second engagement point on each. This is out of phase with the first tooth. So you effectively have 12 engagement point on the pawls; I assume pairs of pawls across the hub engage together.
    Hmmm. That's not how I interpreted it, with them specifically mentioning axle flex as being part of getting more pawls engaged. I see that as higher torque loads forcing enough flex into the system that another one of the slightly out of phase pawls engages, and maybe even a third if there is enough torque, but probably positioned so it helps stabilize the flex. A little bit like how the sprags wind up in an Onyx, but spread way out and somewhat asymmetric. It only works with a super high tooth count, and if the pawls only had one tooth that could engage at a time, that is a lot of load on single teeth.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold View Post
    pretty sure there will be videos and animated gifs in slow-mo explaining what's going on once the official news breaks tomorrow.
    Well sure, but it's fun to guess today.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Velodonata View Post
    Hmmm. That's not how I interpreted it, with them specifically mentioning axle flex as being part of getting more pawls engaged. I see that as higher torque loads forcing enough flex into the system that another one of the slightly out of phase pawls engages, and maybe even a third if there is enough torque, but probably positioned so it helps stabilize the flex. A little bit like how the sprags wind up in an Onyx, but spread way out and somewhat asymmetric. It only works with a super high tooth count, and if the pawls only had one tooth that could engage at a time, that is a lot of load on single teeth.
    Yep I think youíre right. It says even up to 4 pawls can be engaged at once

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velodonata View Post
    Hmmm. That's not how I interpreted it, with them specifically mentioning axle flex as being part of getting more pawls engaged. I see that as higher torque loads forcing enough flex into the system that another one of the slightly out of phase pawls engages, and maybe even a third if there is enough torque, but probably positioned so it helps stabilize the flex. A little bit like how the sprags wind up in an Onyx, but spread way out and somewhat asymmetric. It only works with a super high tooth count, and if the pawls only had one tooth that could engage at a time, that is a lot of load on single teeth.
    Yeah good point. I mean they DO have a little second tooth on each pawl but thinking it's redundant, not out of phase. I guess by having such tiny teeth you ensure you're always just a bit of flex away from a second, third etc. pawl engagment. Clever if it works, and I bet it will!

    Now, will it be backward compatible to current hubs?

  31. #31
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    Currently on an I9 Torch w/ Zero issues after 1 1/2 seasons. Previously I built the rear wheel with a Profile Racing Elite MTB hub 6 pawl 204 POE. That hub lasted all of a few rides before I chipped a tooth on the drive ring. I have done some damage to hubs but never chipped a drive ring. I decided the small the teeth must get the greater the possibility for misfires? Also more pawls engaged means more even surface load.

  32. #32
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    Earlier graphic states less drag.

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  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold View Post
    Dunno how it's dubious. the axle flex happens, anyway. especially on wider hubs.

    the real question I've got is whether it makes enough of a difference to warrant the $75 price jump on a hubset. Hopefully tomorrow, I9 has some videos where they show it actually working.

    I'm not really seeing anyone blowing out older I9 Torch hubs yet. Jenson has SOME of them marked down 15%, but of course, they don't have the spec I'd want anyway. I might still buy the old/current Torch Classics, especially considering the price increase and the prospect of some sort of discount on old stock.
    I think that it will work, but am concerned about several design choices.
    1. Small teeth. Not a lot of contact area.
    2. Only 1 paw engaging at first and taking most of the load even with others "engaged".
    3. Noise/drag.

    I would have preferred a magnet based paw that increase as it gets closer vs a spring that decreases. Also I would prefer drag and noise reduction vs "more" instant engagement.

    Paws will engage 1,3,5,2,4,6 giving you the best possible triangulation.

    updated
    Actual engagement is 1,2,3,4,5,6.
    Last edited by alexbn921; 1 Week Ago at 10:11 AM.
    Making shit harder than it needs to be isn't awesome, it's just...harder.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by bogeydog View Post
    Earlier graphic states less drag.

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    More teeth = more metal to metal contact. Smaller teeth = stronger springs.
    My vote will be equal or more drag.
    Making shit harder than it needs to be isn't awesome, it's just...harder.

  35. #35
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    You can only zoom this so much...

    What's I9 Have Up Their Sleeve?-rbikes-iiii.jpg
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  36. #36
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    One aspect I really like about I9 hubs is how positively they engage. Once they engage there is virtually zero perceptive lag, sink, movement, what have you. Less than any other hub I've ever run. Can't help but wonder if that crisp power transfer is gone with the new design.
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    I could care less about more engagement. Iím just hoping to score a steal on an ďold styleĒ set of I9ís. I just canít justify msrp for them over a build with xm481ís and I9 hubs.

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    I think there comes a point of diminishing returns. I have been a BIG I9 fan since day 1 and continue to be. I also am an engagement whore, riding single speed it really helps. When P321 came out with the G2 magnetic driver with the quite pawls I jumped on a wheel build. After only 50 miles it started popping and upon inspection I found all pawls had damage. I was sent a new drive ring and all new pawls. Maybe 100 miles in they were popping again. I was then sent "improved" pawls, same story. I think it is not because the parts are bad, but rather the high POE and minimal engagement. So for the time being I am sticking with my torch hubs. But I will definitely be keeping an eye on these with the hopes that they are as good as the Torch hubs.

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  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by chadbrochills View Post
    Ohh, I know! Well, I know part of it because I ordered new hubs and because of a shipping error, I'm getting the new ones instead of the Torch's. Wheel builder just called to let me know.
    Sounds like you have a pretty awesome wheelbuilder, I would send him a little extra for a beer or two.

  42. #42
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    But it still doesn't tell us what Hydra sounds like!

    I'm honestly curious if I could even tell the difference between 3 degree and 0.5 degree engagement. I certainly don't think that difference would be enough to make me upgrade my current Torch hubs. I9 was basically already ahead of anyone else with reliable 3 degree engagement already.

    Oh and BTW, I asked and Hydra is not easily backward compatible with Torch. The crux apparently is getting the drive ring out of the hub shell without damaging the latter.

    With the intro of 101 I guess Torch becomes obsolete and will no longer be sold?

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    What's I9 Have Up Their Sleeve?-h_alternate_3.png

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    With the "lighter" Onyx version still MIA and King still being a healthy bit heavier as well, these new Hydra hubs seem like the core of my next wheels. Anxious to read more info in the morning!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pelly_NH View Post
    With the "lighter" Onyx version still MIA and King still being a healthy bit heavier as well, these new Hydra hubs seem like the core of my next wheels. Anxious to read more info in the morning!
    Thatís my plan too! Iíll be building these unless they sound like crap...then Iíll get the onyx. Iím stoked for tomorrow. There better be some sound clips, maybe a first ride impressions too

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    In all seriousness, I like I9 and I trust them. They've always done right by their goods so for now I believe what they are claiming.

    I question the almost 20% price increase. I am sure there is more machining with these, but the cost of those machines have been recouped, but I question how much more labor the hubs require. $650 is a lot for a set of hubs that I can't buy for less from Europe for 40% less!

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    Those 101s sound like a good choice actually. Not sure I need the higher POE of the Hydra, but I certainly want more than I have with the Hopes I use now. I like my Torches on my other wheels but 30 less bites is OK.

  48. #48
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    It's always interesting to observe the speculation when minimal facts have been presented.
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    Well we have a view of the internals and description of how it's supposed to work and it's still baffling.

  50. #50
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    Hopefully with any luck I will be fondling a set tomorrow.

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    Crazy numbers but we shall see after a year how they hold up. But i9 does have a solid reputation.

    I won't be upgrading to the new ones.

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    2 Points:

    In general good companies keep improving and innovating this is just what was next for i9. Was it necessary probably not, the existing torch product is stellar to say the least. Was it necessary for them as a business that they come out with something new and keep interest to show the community what they are capable of, DEFINITELY YES and HELL YEAH. I am excited for a quality new product by a quality company.

    It does looks like they have done their R&D and tested these hopefully they will meet the durability and reliability we all expect for i9. I'm of the opinon (yes just internet opinon) whenever you have new products that require new technology and new manfacturing processes there is almost always a break-in period, so I wont hurry and buy these mainly though because right now I dont need them (most of my mtn bikes have the i9s already If I did need a set immediatley I would be comfortable knowing i9 custome service is amazing (from direct experience). I am sure within the year my curiousity will get the best of me and I will find a way to need a set though.
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    For when you want your mtb to sound like a Vespa
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cleared2land View Post
    It's always interesting to observe the speculation when minimal facts have been presented.
    Guilty, but thought that was kind of the nature of the thread.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bdundee View Post
    Sounds like you have a pretty awesome wheelbuilder, I would send him a little extra for a beer or two.

    Haha right? It was just a case of good timing really. He only called to tell me because he felt bad it was taking so long to get the wheels out to me.
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  57. #57
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    Video on their site has a couple small sound clips. Its a cool video... reminds me of Life Cycles.


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    Quote Originally Posted by solarplex View Post
    Video on their site has a couple small sound clips. Its a cool video... reminds me of Life Cycles.


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    Edit:

    Comparison video. Sounds like more bees, smaller bees, angrier bees

    https://youtu.be/QFyZM1vMwnI


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  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cleared2land View Post
    It's always interesting to observe the speculation when minimal facts have been presented.
    Quote Originally Posted by WHALENARD View Post
    Guilty, but thought that was kind of the nature of the thread.
    Exactly!
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    Quote Originally Posted by solarplex View Post
    Edit:

    Comparison video. Sounds like more bees, smaller bees, angrier bees

    https://youtu.be/QFyZM1vMwnI


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    beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeees...

  61. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_joe View Post
    For when you want your mtb to sound like a Vespa
    Vespa means ďwaspĒ in Italian, so all the angry stinging insect similes are consistent. The more you know!

    I like the ďearly warningĒ effect of riding I9s on crowded trails, plus my dog is trained to find/follow the sound, so Iím sticking with em.

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    As more information is released...

    What's I9 Have Up Their Sleeve?-p5pb16856539.jpg

    What's I9 Have Up Their Sleeve?-p5pb16855277.jpg
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    From that comparison video Iíd say the sound is pretty similar. The torch hub has a lower pitch whine and the hydra is a higher pitch, but otherwise similar in volume. ďLoud and proudĒ as they say.

    For the life of my I canít see there being much advantage to such a high POE. I thought the torch was high and basically instantaneous, but what do I know.


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    Interesting and novel concept having one pawl engage and the others begin to share the load due to elasticity in the system. On the face of it, it does seem to solve the problem with the usual designs of having only one pawl catch and then take all the load. And as a side benefit producing very high POE. I like it.

    From a wheel building and spoke replacement point of view, In my experience their aluminum spokes threading into the hub flanges works very well too.
    Do the math.

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    Great to see the excitement here!

    One question we're seeing is the options for riders to switch between Torch and Hydra...

    We are offering an in-house rebuild service to Hydra-equipped hubs on i9 system wheels. This will be a new hub, not a retrofit into the hubshell.

    If you're riding a Classic hub (flanged), it's best to replace the hub since the parts cost breaks down to be very similar. We can't do these in-house due to the universe of spokes, rims, etc the hubs are built on we just don't have.

    I was brief here, but if you have any questions about our wheel rebuild service on the Hydra hub, please drop a line to our service dept - service AT industrynine DOT com.

    Thanks MTBr's!
    Official handle for Industry Nine Componentry
    www.industrynine.net

  67. #67
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    engagement is 1,2,3,4,5,6.
    Seems weird to me that they didn't triangulate the engagement. Also having 3 paws on one size engaged will put some extra stress on the axle and bearings.
    Don't know if I believe the weaker springs with smaller teeth thing either.

    Other than that I like them and hope they are bomb proof like there old hubs. Also puts them at the sharp end of the POE race again.
    Making shit harder than it needs to be isn't awesome, it's just...harder.

  68. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silent Drone View Post
    For the life of my I canít see there being much advantage to such a high POE. I thought the torch was high and basically instantaneous, but what do I know.
    I tend to agree with this. It seems like the main selling feature here is engagement. It was already plenty high on their hubs so I'm not sure I see the point aside from it being something new.

  69. #69
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    Price isn't showing up when you try to configure/buy.

    https://industrynine.com/wheels/moun...arbon-trail-24

  70. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pelly_NH View Post
    Price isn't showing up when you try to configure/buy.

    https://industrynine.com/wheels/moun...arbon-trail-24
    If you put the item in the cart, it should display pricing. This is a bug we're aware of and on our way to fixing. Thanks!
    Official handle for Industry Nine Componentry
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  71. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by 7daysaweek View Post
    I tend to agree with this. It seems like the main selling feature here is engagement. It was already plenty high on their hubs so I'm not sure I see the point aside from it being something new.
    Well, it's a number that they can point to as being better, so in that respect, yes, it's a selling feature. But reading into everything, that's not the main BENEFIT. The main benefit I'm seeing is that the procession of pawl engagement utilizes axle flex that's there, anyway, and uses it to reduce bearing wear. So at least according to the materials I9 is releasing, you get a more durable hub.

    I just got off the phone with one of my local shops to see if they have any on hand for customers to put hands on. They had a new wheelset go out the door earlier today, and the owner's bike has a wheelset on it. The guy I spoke to has ridden them, too, and gave me his impressions. He says that drag when coasting IS noticeably reduced compared to the Torch hubs, so there's another benefit, as well.

  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold View Post
    He says that drag when coasting IS noticeably reduced compared to the Torch hubs, so there's another benefit, as well.
    THAT is what I was looking for. Real world experience on how they feel and if there is drag.
    Thanks for the info.

  73. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Industry Nine View Post
    If you're riding a Classic hub (flanged), it's best to replace the hub since the parts cost breaks down to be very similar. We can't do these in-house due to the universe of spokes, rims, etc the hubs are built on we just don't have.
    Is the hub flange diameter the same between Torch and Hydra? Haven't seen specs from from the pics it doesn't look like it.

  74. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gman086 View Post
    Intriguing! Looks like they took a blend of sprag clutch and pawl system concepts to come up with this ....
    Totally.


    What's I9 Have Up Their Sleeve?-industry9.jpg

  75. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by alexbn921 View Post
    engagement is 1,2,3,4,5,6.
    Seems weird to me that they didn't triangulate the engagement. Also having 3 paws on one size engaged will put some extra stress on the axle and bearings.
    Yeah I was thinking about this too. I wonder if it's as simple as the next pawl in order not being the second to engage under load? Maybe the flex doesn't allow the expected sequence, and the tiny differences in phasing help keep the flex to a minimum once multiple pawls are engaged. I expect there can't be too much relative motion in there or the pawl teeth would be moving too much on the ring teeth.

  76. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by VegasSingleSpeed View Post
    Totally.


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    LOL. We need to go deeper.

  77. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velodonata View Post
    LOL. We need to go deeper.
    Already working on the patent for the "Valence Shell"...

  78. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockman View Post
    Is the hub flange diameter the same between Torch and Hydra? Haven't seen specs from from the pics it doesn't look like it.
    I just spent a bunch of time browsing the support side of the updated site, and can't find ANY of the specs required to build their hubs - new or old. I wonder if those are buried in the dealer section now?

  79. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockman View Post
    Is the hub flange diameter the same between Torch and Hydra? Haven't seen specs from from the pics it doesn't look like it.
    Yes, same flange dim's...

    We're moving to the new site, and complete flange dims will be shortly, but in the meantime any spoke calc that has Torch hubs will work for Hydra.

    If you need them, hit up our service AT industrynine DOT com email.

    Thanks!
    Official handle for Industry Nine Componentry
    www.industrynine.net

  80. #80
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    not mine, copied from pinkbike comments:

    With the 3-degree hub, three evenly distributed pawls are helping bear the load equally around the ring, 33.3% each, and keeping everything in alignment. With Hydra, one pawl is being smashed into oblivion until the next pawl engages, and that pawl is being smashed to a lesser extent until the next pawl engages, and so on. The load mechanism seems to be purposely enforcing an eccentric rotation furthest out from the most smashed pawl. One might argue that this eccentricity will eventually occur everywhere around the ring, so it balances out, but it also seems that over time this would introduce slop (or blunt the pawls).

  81. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by lardo5150 View Post
    not mine, copied from pinkbike comments:

    With the 3-degree hub, three evenly distributed pawls are helping bear the load equally around the ring, 33.3% each, and keeping everything in alignment. With Hydra, one pawl is being smashed into oblivion until the next pawl engages, and that pawl is being smashed to a lesser extent until the next pawl engages, and so on. The load mechanism seems to be purposely enforcing an eccentric rotation furthest out from the most smashed pawl. One might argue that this eccentricity will eventually occur everywhere around the ring, so it balances out, but it also seems that over time this would introduce slop (or blunt the pawls).
    Ridiculous comment, yep it checks out, definitely Pinkbike.

  82. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velodonata View Post
    Ridiculous comment, yep it checks out, definitely Pinkbike.
    How so? I thought he had a good point?
    Doesn't a single paw engage first on this new design?
    Or, is he wrong (and myself)

  83. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by lardo5150 View Post
    How so? I thought he had a good point?
    Doesn't a single paw engage first on this new design?
    Or, is he wrong (and myself)
    Not going to claim any engineering insight, but pretty sure that's how any threaded fastener works?

    In this case I'd guess the flex is in the axle, with the freehub moving away from the ring where the first pawl engages, letting the next closest pawl engage? That would explain the 1,2,3, etc engagement order, and makes more sense than the hardened pawls deforming.

  84. #84
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    NOBL wheels posted a good video on their IG story feed of Torch sound, greased Hydra sound and minimal grease Hydra sound. Its the best I've seen so far for sound comparisons!

  85. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magsrgod View Post
    NOBL wheels posted a good video on their IG story feed of Torch sound, greased Hydra sound and minimal grease Hydra sound. Its the best I've seen so far for sound comparisons!
    There is a Torch vs Hydro video on YouTube. New one has a different pitch. What struck me is how much drag there was in the system as shown by how quickly the wheel slowed down. Of course, that's assuming there wasn't any other impediment like rubbing brakes.

    https://youtu.be/QFyZM1vMwnI


    Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

  86. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magsrgod View Post
    NOBL wheels posted a good video on their IG story feed of Torch sound, greased Hydra sound and minimal grease Hydra sound. Its the best I've seen so far for sound comparisons!
    Link? Cause the one I see on their site is like 15 seconds long talking about the 101s.

  87. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by lardo5150 View Post
    Link? Cause the one I see on their site is like 15 seconds long talking about the 101s.
    See if this works, its the last couple clips in the story feed.

    https://www.instagram.com/stories/noblwheels/

  88. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by lardo5150 View Post
    THAT is what I was looking for. Real world experience on how they feel and if there is drag.
    Thanks for the info.
    If I had one complaint about my I9s it was drag. My Hopes run and run and run. My I9s had noticeably more drag.

  89. #89
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    Just put a deposit down on the new Hydra hubset. I was planning to order hubs last week and decided to wait for today's announcement to see what was coming. Shop had received a system wheelset between the time that I called and when I drove over there, so I got to put hands on them.

    Brand new, there is some drag, but I'm not sure if I could say it was less than my Hopes with fresh lube. They ARE quieter than the Torch hubs. I'd have to have them both in hand at the same time. Of course they get louder as the lubricant breaks down some, but it's still notable.

    I almost went with the 101 hubs due to the cost savings and the fact that the engagement on those would still be more than what I have now. But figured what the hell. I'm putting xtr M9100 drivetrain on this new bike, so might as well give the new hotness a go. The I9 factory is fewer than 10mi from my house, so if I have issues, I can get support easily enough.

    Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk

  90. #90
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    I'm a former shop wrench and a very early adopter of I9 products.
    Having had several wheelsets i have to say issues have been very few and far between and ALWAYS handled acceptably & promptly by the folks at I9. THANK YOU for that!

    That said, what's all the hubbub about "Drag" on Torches? I'm quite happy with the 2 sets I have and I notice how much farther I can coast sections of trail behind friends with other brands. I'm scratching my head a little here seriously and not just being a homer...

    As to the sound/noise from Torches and now Hydras. . . . . By using a liberal amount of Dumond Tech Ring Lube can the Hydras be "quieted" down like the Torches???
    "There's two kinds of people in this world - Walkers and Talkers." Which one are you?

  91. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by alexbn921 View Post
    engagement is 1,2,3,4,5,6.
    .
    i'm sure its not. the video is a gizmo they made for the press release, not an actual hub

  92. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by lardo5150 View Post
    How so? I thought he had a good point?
    Doesn't a single paw engage first on this new design?
    Or, is he wrong (and myself)
    All his "smashed into oblivion" talk and "The load mechanism seems to be purposely enforcing an eccentric rotation furthest out from the most smashed pawl" is just nonsense.

    Yes, one pawl engages first. But with so little rotation between the phases, it won't take much load until more join in. And it probably doesn't result in enough of an uneven load on the pawls to matter. I expect that by eliminating the possibility of a partial pawl engagement like in traditional hubs that have multiple pawls intended to always be in phase, the overall stress over the life of the hub is reduced. But what do I know? Maybe these will all be smashed into oblivion in short order.

  93. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by DMFT View Post
    As to the sound/noise from Torches and now Hydras. . . . . By using a liberal amount of Dumond Tech Ring Lube can the Hydras be "quieted" down like the Torches???
    The ones I put my hands on in the shop about an hour ago were pretty darned quiet. According to their updated FAQ, they're putting Dumonde Tech FH grease in there.

    Industry Nine - Frequently Answered Questions

    http://industrynine.com/documents/hydraservice.pdf

  94. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by syl3 View Post
    i'm sure its not. the video is a gizmo they made for the press release, not an actual hub
    I highly doubt they made a different special drive ring and freehub body. They just adapted production parts for a demo.

    Quote Originally Posted by Velodonata View Post
    All his "smashed into oblivion" talk and "The load mechanism seems to be purposely enforcing an eccentric rotation furthest out from the most smashed pawl" is just nonsense.

    Yes, one pawl engages first. But with so little rotation between the phases, it won't take much load until more join in. And it probably doesn't result in enough of an uneven load on the pawls to matter. I expect that by eliminating the possibility of a partial pawl engagement like in traditional hubs that have multiple pawls intended to always be in phase, the overall stress over the life of the hub is reduced. But what do I know? Maybe these will all be smashed into oblivion in short order.
    I don't think it will smash into oblivion, but it takes .52 deg for each new paw to engage. The 3rd paw will be 1.02 degree behind. That seems like a lot of axle/bearing flex and very uneven load.
    Making shit harder than it needs to be isn't awesome, it's just...harder.

  95. #95
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    Thanks Harold!
    -Gonna have to shop for that Grease. . . .
    "There's two kinds of people in this world - Walkers and Talkers." Which one are you?

  96. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by alexbn921 View Post
    I highly doubt they made a different special drive ring and freehub body. They just adapted production parts for a demo.

    I don't think it will smash into oblivion, but it takes .52 deg for each new paw to engage. The 3rd paw will be 1.02 degree behind. That seems like a lot of axle/bearing flex and very uneven load.
    Yeah, and that demo freehub does not reflect how the axle flex plays into the system. The axle flex also means that the 2nd and 3rd pawl engagements won't necessarily be the same rotational distance behind the first engagement because the whole system will shift a little bit as the axle flexes. And as more pawls engage, it sounds like it will firm up and move less. In linear distance on the drive ring, we're talking fractions of a mm required to engage each pawl.

  97. #97
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    In theory the hub would not even need to rotate for more pawl engagement, they could be engaged simply through axle flex. In theory.
    Wanted, SRAM GX 2x11 rear derailleur

    It ain't supposed to be easy.

  98. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold View Post
    Yeah, and that demo freehub does not reflect how the axle flex plays into the system. The axle flex also means that the 2nd and 3rd pawl engagements won't necessarily be the same rotational distance behind the first engagement because the whole system will shift a little bit as the axle flexes. And as more pawls engage, it sounds like it will firm up and move less. In linear distance on the drive ring, we're talking fractions of a mm required to engage each pawl.
    Honestly without knowing the axle's resistance to deflection it's hard to know for sure, but due to the incredibly tight tolerances here I would be shocked if a single pawl ever took a full load by itself.

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  99. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by tuckerjt07 View Post
    Honestly without knowing the axle's resistance to deflection it's hard to know for sure, but due to the incredibly tight tolerances here I would be shocked if a single pawl ever took a full load by itself.

    Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
    Putting hands on one, it becomes quite plain how truly close each engagement is. It really won't take much to engage more pawls.

    Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk

  100. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold View Post
    Putting hands on one, it becomes quite plain how truly close each engagement is. It really won't take much to engage more pawls.

    Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk
    I can imagine. I just conceptualized it by knowing how quickly my old ones engage. Now they are approximately six times closer. I doubt there is a millimeter of clearance.

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