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  1. #1
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    New question here. What would you do vs what is right/fair?

    My wife got a new wheelset in August. Boost spacing, 29" , aluminum rims, sort-of-high end ($900 for both wheels). Wife weighs 125lbs, so say she weighs 135lbs in full rider gear & camelpack.

    The rear rim fails. The rim's surface near the spokes is cracking in 10+ spots. Brought wheel back to LBS. LBS gets the manufacturer to warranty it.

    Two things happen that I am not satisfied with:
    1. We get charged $135 for new spokes and labor. The manufacturer only sent out a rim.

    Me: WTF? We bought a built wheelset for $900. Why am I being nickel-and-dimed? Yes, the LBS needs to recoup their labor. Even so--why am I getting charged for the spokes?

    2. The new rim is supposedly identical. However, the LBS cannot tighten the spokes to the point where the wheel does not flex. They did "tie" the driveside) spokes together to increase stiffness. Those who are not familar with tying--its looks like a little metal zip tie on each area where the spokes overlap or lace through one another.

    Me: WTF?? A 29" wheel from a major manufacturer isn't stiff enough to hold a 135lb rider? And if the wheel does get tensioned "correctly" it'll cause the rim to fail? DAFUQ?

    Would you contact the manufacture? I kind of feel like their warranty service is lacking given the circumstances, rider weight, and the expectation I had from a $900 wheel set.

    Regarding the manufacturer, I want to keep brand politics out of the picture. However, they are mongst the top 5 wheel(set) manufacturers in the U.S.

    Thoughts?

  2. #2
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    PS-I voiced my concerns to the LBS. They recommended me to take it up with the manufacturer.

  3. #3
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    You could see charging for new nipples, but new spokes can be reused.

    Might as well name the manufacturer. This could be a typical response from them.

    It also makes it easier for us to help out if we know what you had, and what you broke. Being so vague doesnít help.
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  4. #4
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    #2 seems reeaaaal fishy. When was the last time anyone had to tie spokes? Does your LBS actually know how to build a wheel? Did they use the right length/type of replacement spokes? Did they mess up the lacing pattern? If it were me, I would've insisted they just reuse the original spokes.

  5. #5
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    Sounds like your LBS should change you over to a different rim and I'd expect them to charge you "cost" if they aren't going to do it for free. What do you mean by wheel flex? Is this some ultralight weight rim that you had them use?

  6. #6
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    I weigh 265 pounds right now and I have never tied spokes on my own or any wheels. Never had to.
    Something isn't adding up. Plus, if the bike shop built the wheels, I feel they should have eaten the spokes and labor. If they bought them built, the builder should have.
    One of the guys I build a lot of wheels for has a girlfriend that rides and she's also maybe 115 pounds. I build her the lightest stuff with 32 spokes and I'd ride em.
    I'd take the rim and hub to someone that knows what they're doing and buy the spokes from them. You're buying them anyway.
    I like turtles

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by jch3n View Post
    #2 seems reeaaaal fishy. When was the last time anyone had to tie spokes? Does your LBS actually know how to build a wheel? Did they use the right length/type of replacement spokes? Did they mess up the lacing pattern? If it were me, I would've insisted they just reuse the original spokes.
    I agree. However, the LBS's two mechanics who also built wheels have paid their dues in their youth by wrenching for national pro teams; heck one of them's been to the olympic servicing their team (at the time). I tend to believe their recommendations.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by crimedog View Post
    Sounds like your LBS should change you over to a different rim and I'd expect them to charge you "cost" if they aren't going to do it for free. What do you mean by wheel flex? Is this some ultralight weight rim that you had them use?
    Flex being the dish doesn't old in all circumstances. Usually you can tell if a wheel is flexing when you see wear/rub marks on the frame.

    I'm 245lbs, I never had this issue and never had any spokes tied. Even when radial lacing a front wheel when it was in style a couple decades ago, I didn't have flex.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtnbikej View Post
    Might as well name the manufacturer. This could be a typical response from them.

    It also makes it easier for us to help out if we know what you had, and what you broke. Being so vague doesnít help.
    I was being vague because I haven't voiced this to manufacturer. Regardless, it is what it is. The manufacturer is Stans.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYrr496 View Post
    I'd take the rim and hub to someone that knows what they're doing and buy the spokes from them. You're buying them anyway.
    Too late. This particular LBS did not give us the total until we picked up the wheel. And they never called to get the additional parts/labor approved prior to ordering parts and labor. I called them out on this when we picked up the wheel. Told them my expectation was since they never pre-authorized anything then this "warranty" would be covered. I was apparently incorrect in my thinking.

  11. #11
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    If you bought off the shelf wheels, they should have replaced the whole wheel and not just the rim. I'm only around 145 lbs and would not be happy with that kind of flex; not at all confidence inspiring.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oh My Sack! View Post
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by bingemtbr View Post
    I agree. However, the LBS's two mechanics who also built wheels have paid their dues in their youth by wrenching for national pro teams; heck one of them's been to the olympic servicing their team (at the time). I tend to believe their recommendations.
    I'd be willing to give them the benefit of the doubt, sure. But something really isn't adding up if they had to resort to tying spokes and there's still questionable flex. The pros make mistakes sometimes too.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by bingemtbr View Post
    Flex being the dish doesn't old in all circumstances. Usually you can tell if a wheel is flexing when you see wear/rub marks on the frame.

    I'm 245lbs, I never had this issue and never had any spokes tied. Even when radial lacing a front wheel when it was in style a couple decades ago, I didn't have flex.
    Ah, I thought that you meant the rim was flexing when brought up to tension, but you mean that the wheel is still flexy after being brought to tension. I know that Stan's rates their rims for lower than standard max tension (Crest MK3 is 95Kg for example) so the NDS is going to be quite low on a rear wheel.

    I'd treat this as a learning experience and avoid Stan's rims in the future. I wouldn't expect them to reimburse the shop for their parts or labor, just to warranty the rim. Your relationship with the LBS will determine the rest.

  14. #14
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    When relacing a wheel, you have to choose between spending the (extra) time to unscrew every nip, fish it out of the rim, then unlace the spokes. It doesn't take a long time, but it does take some time.

    Or you can cut the spokes out and lace with fresh ones. Takes less time, and then you pay for new spokes.

    In the end the cost can be a wash, but the latter takes less time. Time (labor) is money...

    If I'm 100% sure the spokes haven't been overstressed (taco) or had too many stress cycles (years of use) then I'll re-use spokes.

    If there's any question, I cut 'em and start fresh.

    In the end what I want is to be sure the customer is taken care of long term. Fresh spokes goes a little ways toward guaranteeing that.

  15. #15
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    Sounds like a crap wheel set. If your wife is a very aggressive rider the rear will fail again. Have your LBS, Mike C or Speed Dream build you another wheel. Then trash the manufacturer on MTBR. An alloy 29er rear wheel has never lasted more than 4 months without retensioning under me and then itís down hill after that.


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  16. #16
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    Your LBS does shoddy work.

    I'm a wheelbuilder (retired my business though). *I* sold people an entire wheel package that would work for them, based on my experience. Usually a quick stat rundown and riding style is all I would need. You're 125lb and ride xc? I would suggest x-rim for you, because in my experience it holds up for that sort of person.

    Defects do happen. MY reputation rides on the brand of components I sell too. If your brands gear sucks, im not selling it. If I sell it and it fails (it happens, whatever), I'm eating the labor, parts, spokes, nipples, and time to replace it. My reputation rides on the quality of parts I sell, and part of my markup and charge is backing those products.

    You got hosed, but contractually they owe you nothing. I would find a more reputable wheelbuilder that backs their work. Id probably ask for a refund too, but you dont have *too* much to go on, legally.

  17. #17
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    Also, this has stans crest written all over it.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Pivot View Post
    Also, this has stans crest written all over it.
    I like turtles

  19. #19
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    Stans, lol.

  20. #20
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    OP, you should have insisted on a brand new wheel or labour charge should have been between the manufacturer and them, nothing to do with you, you did not buy a rim, you bought a complete wheel.

    Gona have to subscribe via this comment, don't ask me why, it's not like I've had enough experience with them or known enough other people who've had similar

    Quote Originally Posted by One Pivot View Post
    Also, this has stans crest written all over it.
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by chazpat View Post
    If you bought off the shelf wheels, they should have replaced the whole wheel and not just the rim.
    This^ If you bought a whole wheel fully built you have the right to have the whole thing replaced. There is no way you should be getting charged to patch up a faulty product.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by chazpat View Post
    If you bought off the shelf wheels, they should have replaced the whole wheel and not just the rim. I'm only around 145 lbs and would not be happy with that kind of flex; not at all confidence inspiring.
    Yeah, this.

  23. #23
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    If it was a Stans wheel, Stans should have warrantied it, through your lBS.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSU Alum View Post
    If it was a Stans wheel, Stans should have warrantied it, through your lBS.
    Yep.

    I missed it the first time I read this thread. I've seen some pretty poorly built wheels come outta Stan's.
    I like turtles

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Pivot View Post
    Also, this has stans crest written all over it.
    Or Velocity...but probably Stans.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by bingemtbr View Post

    The rear rim fails. The rim's surface near the spokes is cracking in 10+ spots.
    This rings of excessive spoke tension to me. Shitty rim is possible, but given your other info and interaction experience i'm inclined to blame the builder.

    Getting a chuckle at the stan's comments.

    One Pivot always knows what's up.
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  27. #27
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    Is this a stan's wheel set or a custom build wheelset with stans rims?

    I'm 170 pounds I went through 4 crest rims in like 3 months. To be fair once they were finally ok they were basically fine. Stans had some early mk3 rims that were too thin and they would crack. I cracked the spokes hole in like 3 rides. I could only see this being the case if the shop had old crest mk3 rims lying around they used in a custom build.

    Stan's will warranty swap the entire wheel for the shop, no charge on anything. If it's a pre built wheel from them.

    If stan's had no wheels to send and would send a rim (because you needed it now). I would have just swapped out your rim with new nipples for free. Reusing spokes is fine if they are pretty new. Unless you got the wheels somewhere else.

    Also if this was a custom built wheelset from the shop and it was my shop I would have just swapped out your rim and sent you on your way with no charge. I already would have charged you for a wheelset expected to last at least the warranty period of the parts it's built from. So why should you pay more.

    I'm assuming these are 28 spoke. A 28 spoke crest is going to flex a little. But I've never had them rub the frame in any of my bikes.

  28. #28
    EAT MORE GRIME
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Pivot View Post
    Also, this has stans crest written all over it.
    either that, or a rim made from wadded-up aluminum foil.
    "Put your seatbelt back on or get out and sit in the middle of that circle of death." - Johnny Scoot

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by bingemtbr View Post
    I agree. However, the LBS's two mechanics who also built wheels have paid their dues in their youth by wrenching for national pro teams; heck one of them's been to the olympic servicing their team (at the time). I tend to believe their recommendations.
    Just because someone is experienced doesn't mean they don't make mistakes.


    "Too late. This particular LBS did not give us the total until we picked up the wheel. And they never called to get the additional parts/labor approved prior to ordering parts and labor. I called them out on this when we picked up the wheel. Told them my expectation was since they never pre-authorized anything then this "warranty" would be covered. I was apparently incorrect in my thinking"

    ^ And this is why I will not recommend an LBS for wheel building service. Before I built my own wheels I experienced poor builds, vague estimates / warranty practices for custom builds.

  30. #30
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    You guys crack me up with your speculations on what brand this is. The original poster clearly posted "The manufacturer is Stans".

  31. #31
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    Well shoot...yes, they are Stans Crest wheels. Yes, this was an "off-the-shelf" wheelset purchased through the old LBS.

    Live and learn. Gotta do more research on wheels next time--yes, there may be a next time. The wife is an agressive rider.

  32. #32
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    I just built my friend's girlfriend Race Face Arc Offsets in 27.5 x 35mm for a b+ Karate Monkey SS. The Offsets build up NICE.
    I like turtles

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYrr496 View Post
    I just built my friend's girlfriend Race Face Arc Offsets in 27.5 x 35mm for a b+ Karate Monkey SS. The Offsets build up NICE.
    How does this relate?

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by 127.0.0.1 View Post
    either that, or a rim made from wadded-up aluminum foil.
    Wait, there's a difference?

  35. #35
    EAT MORE GRIME
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    Quote Originally Posted by GuitsBoy View Post
    Wait, there's a difference?
    not with Stans Crest rims there ain't.
    "Put your seatbelt back on or get out and sit in the middle of that circle of death." - Johnny Scoot

  36. #36
    turtles make me hot
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    Quote Originally Posted by bingemtbr View Post
    How does this relate?

    You said next time. I was making a suggestion for a future set of rims.
    I like turtles

  37. #37
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    So much for 'supporting your LBS'. Unfortunately sounds like you got screwed and $900 for a set of aluminum wheels? You're practically in carbon territory.

  38. #38
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    $900 will do carbon on hopes or 350s all day!

    Don't support your lbs, they suck. Support a forum friendly online builder! We have some kick-ass builders here, and they're better and cheaper.

  39. #39
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    How did you spend $900 on a $670 wheelset?
    Bicycles donít have motors or batteries.

    Ebikes are not bicycles

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by bingemtbr View Post
    Well shoot...yes, they are Stans Crest wheels. Yes, this was an "off-the-shelf" wheelset purchased through the old LBS.

    Live and learn. Gotta do more research on wheels next time--yes, there may be a next time. The wife is an agressive rider.
    This thread delivers.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtnbikej View Post
    How did you spend $900 on a $670 wheelset?
    The difference was likely labor to install them since the LBS seems pretty good at cashing in on that ...

    Please STOP paying the bill. If they didn't ask or get authorization you should have just taken the rim and walked. At this point just cut your losses and get another wheel. "Telling" them things isn't working because they are still swiping your credit card through the machine.

    ... National Pro teams ... Olympic team mechanic ... teams at that level don't rebuild wheels. Ask them if they think a pro would ride your wheel that your Wife broke.

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