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  1. #1
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    Vittoria Mazza

    Was watching a new Jeff Lenosky video and in the beginning, bam!, it was just like a pair of titties in my face. New Vittoria tire. Looks like a DHF type clone, so they've been listening to me.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yM5cY5YgiU0








  2. #2
    Hoolie Ghoulie on Strava.
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    Good post! I am happy to see them offer up new tires, but I wish they would offer a Geax Neuron. I liked the Neuron better than DHF, but since they dont make it, DHF is hard to beat. I personally ride Vittoria Goma front, but that show is over. New bike came with 2.6 Schwalbe Nobby Nic's, which Dont grip as well as Goma, but the ride quality is really great. MAZZA looks good! (I have a set of 2.6 Martello's on deck). I like Vittoria tires the best.

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    Awesome! The Mazza/Agarro will be the new Goto combo to DHF/Aggressor!

    Schulze, Iíve concluded either A) you watch video on a 50Ē monitor to have seen and investigated those tire markings or b) you are on Vittoriaís marketing payroll to leak info and create buzz...d;o)

  5. #5
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    Maybe. Martello side knobs aren't very good in the dry, so unless they stiffened these up I'm not holding my breath for it. The best part about the Goma were the stiff side knobs; that's what made it an excellent rock tire. imo the main reason it fell out of favor was because the 2.4 needs an i35mm rim to fulfill its ability; on narrower rims the rounded profile didn't engage the side knobs enough during cornering. Currently their designer has an infatuation with siping, and we all know siping is the first thing to wear off.

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    I posted a comment on his video yesterday and asked about this.

    "Awesome video Jeff! Whatís up with those Mazza tires? Canít seem to find info on them anywhere and the tread pattern looks pretty damn nice."


    Jeff Lenosky
    23 hours ago
    Matthew Serra ummmm. You didnít see that tire yet ;-)

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    Man you guys don't miss a beat! ;-)

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    Quote Originally Posted by JeffLenosky View Post
    Man you guys don't miss a beat! ;-)
    Funny, I was just watching the video thinking the same thing. Nope, not on Vittoria's website, but alas, the interwebs deliver!

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    A couple new front tires very similar to that with the wide longer very ramped lower profile center knobs. These tires are looking really good.
    It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society.

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    Random google search turned up a few pics

    https://www.pro-m.com/schoneck-ger-i...07-08-09-2019/

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harryman View Post
    Random google search turned up a few pics

    https://www.pro-m.com/schoneck-ger-i...07-08-09-2019/
    DAmn! Check out those side lug shoulders! Hope they make production, canít make them out from Jeffís video.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by WHALENARD View Post
    A couple new front tires very similar to that with the wide longer very ramped lower profile center knobs.
    Curious... aren't you basically describing a Maxxis HR2?
    I like 'em long, low, slack and playful

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    Quote Originally Posted by 06HokieMTB View Post
    Curious... aren't you basically describing a Maxxis HR2?
    Not sure as I've haven't had a good look at one in a while. I was thinking of the newest E-13 TRS when I typed that which looks as though they heavily borrowed from the butcher when making the latest version.


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  14. #14
    Hoolie Ghoulie on Strava.
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    Mazza in that pic from Harryman, looks just like a larger Vittoria Mota. I tried a set of Mota TnT tires, sale price at $25 each. I ended up using both on rear matched to Goma 2.4 front. These were for my hartail, and I did not like them at first. But once I had a few rides on the Mota, I liked them alot (I prefer rear lightning fast Morsa in summer). Mazza looks like a great Winter tire. Long gaps between center treads make for a bumpy ride in summer, but I think Mazza in a 2.6 TnT Graphene, solves my winter tire selection issues w/ Vittoria. Very cool to see so many Vittoria products. I use Vittoria tires almost exclusively, except for January-March, when wet and muddy in Norcal (Shorty front / DHF rear in wet, both in 3C).

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    Quote Originally Posted by JeffLenosky View Post
    Man you guys don't miss a beat! ;-)
    Mazza vs. Martello (my current favorite front tire), your thoughts?

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    That's a tough one. I really like the Martello because its SUPER predictable however when there's dirt to bite into the Mazza is awesome. It should be out soon but if you share that this message will disappear. LOL

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    So, it depends on the terrain. Dirt I'd go Mazza, and if it's mixed or mostly harder pack or rocks I'd stick with Martello

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    Thanks for that Jeff. So for hard pack and rocks, stick with the Martello then. Thx
    Vittoria tires were completely off my radar, I kept trying tires, a couple of dozen of them. Then I tried the Agarro 2.3 on the rear, and was blown away. Soon after I tried the Martello and had the same result. The weight as a front kept me from trying it before but it was a non issue and doesn't need an insert as other non DH tires do.
    They are amazing tires, I'm a fan boy now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JeffLenosky View Post
    So, it depends on the terrain. Dirt I'd go Mazza, and if it's mixed or mostly harder pack or rocks I'd stick with Martello
    What combo you run when riding in jersey?

    I usually ride all the NNJ places....ringwood, mahon, jungle habitat, high mountain,etc.

    Im running martellos f/r on my 29er and agarroís f/r on my 27.5...

    I am Mazza curious though. Lol.

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    https://www.vitalmtb.com/news/press-...-Onset-MT,3576

    Atrocious looking bike but lots of good clear photos of the Mazza in this press release.

    I'm not one to usually say "looks like a minion" but wow, that is shockingly similar at first glance to a DHF. I know V has different casings and compounds to stand out in performance but looks alone this tire is a dhf.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NateMob View Post
    https://www.vitalmtb.com/news/press-...-Onset-MT,3576

    Atrocious looking bike but lots of good clear photos of the Mazza in this press release.

    I'm not one to usually say "looks like a minion" but wow, that is shockingly similar at first glance to a DHF. I know V has different casings and compounds to stand out in performance but looks alone this tire is a dhf.
    It's a minion DHF2!
    With Vittoria's pseudo ramped knobs and some interesting shoulder blocks, definitely going to try these when they are available.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NateMob View Post
    https://www.vitalmtb.com/news/press-...-Onset-MT,3576

    Atrocious looking bike but lots of good clear photos of the Mazza in this press release.

    I'm not one to usually say "looks like a minion" but wow, that is shockingly similar at first glance to a DHF. I know V has different casings and compounds to stand out in performance but looks alone this tire is a dhf.
    It sure does, but if history is any indication the Vittoria compound and carcass will blow the original out of the water.

    The Hans Dampf, Breakout & Aggressor all worked and behaved very similar to me and in a manner that I very much liked even though they each had their Pros & Cons. Then Vittoria released their version of the closely spaced blocks narrow rear tire in the Agarro and frankly blew the others completely out of the water. The Agarro has the traction and RR of the HD, the absolute traction and suppleness of the Breakout, and the reliability and sizing of the Aggressor. It literally took the best from all 3 of some of the best tires and combined them all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JeffLenosky View Post
    That's a tough one. I really like the Martello because its SUPER predictable however when there's dirt to bite into the Mazza is awesome. It should be out soon but if you share that this message will disappear. LOL
    It honestly seems like the Martello is being discontinued to make way for the Mazzo because it's being discounted on some websites and when I attempted to put in a backorder, they wouldn't accept it as they did on other Vittoria tires.

    Also super curious what constitutes 'dirt to bite in to' in your opinion? Because in my hard pack with random imbedded and smaller (1"-6") loose rocks absolutely everywhere it's hard to imagine a tire working better than the Martello. Although I'm certain the Mazzo will be lighter just due to more 'sea' than the Martello.

    Any input on this?

    Ps. I couldn't get the discount code mentioned above to work.

    thx

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    Quote Originally Posted by Suns_PSD View Post
    It honestly seems like the Martello is being discontinued to make way for the Mazzo because it's being discounted on some websites and when I attempted to put in a backorder, they wouldn't accept it as they did on other Vittoria tires.

    Also super curious what constitutes 'dirt to bite in to' in your opinion? Because in my hard pack with random imbedded and smaller (1"-6") loose rocks absolutely everywhere it's hard to imagine a tire working better than the Martello. Although I'm certain the Mazzo will be lighter just due to more 'sea' than the Martello.

    Any input on this?

    Ps. I couldn't get the discount code mentioned above to work.

    thx
    I see a few Vittoria tires are being discounted. I know the podcast on www.singletracks.com with Vittoria alludes to something new coming soon this summer which maybe a larger redesign of tires.

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  25. #25
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    Opinion has been the Mazza is the replacement for Goma and when it was being phased out they took it off the website. All Martello sizes are available on Vittoria.com.

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    Shortages due to the Chinavirus panic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JeffLenosky View Post
    That's a tough one. I really like the Martello because its SUPER predictable however when there's dirt to bite into the Mazza is awesome. It should be out soon but if you share that this message will disappear. LOL
    So Jeff... have you ridden the Tahoe Area in awhile with either the Martello or possibly the Mazza? Currently running a 2.35 Martello/Agarro combo after YEARS of running the 2.4 Goma. Bit disappointed in the Martello front, have run as rear and love it and finding the limits of the Agarro in the deep sand/Tahoe Loam. Wondering if the Mazza/Martello would be a good combo around here or how "comparable" the Mazza is to the old Goma?

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    Quote Originally Posted by gregnash View Post
    So Jeff... have you ridden the Tahoe Area in awhile with either the Martello or possibly the Mazza? Currently running a 2.35 Martello/Agarro combo after YEARS of running the 2.4 Goma. Bit disappointed in the Martello front, have run as rear and love it and finding the limits of the Agarro in the deep sand/Tahoe Loam. Wondering if the Mazza/Martello would be a good combo around here or how "comparable" the Mazza is to the old Goma?
    It sounds like from what Jeff wrote earlier that the Mazza is going to be a really good option for Tahoe. It sounds like it will dig into the loose stuff more and be able to find some purchase deep down in there. I personally love the Martello for riding around Reno in the hard pack desert stuff, and even when it starts to blow out mid summer. Martello for me is 75% of the time my go to tire. But I wholeheartedly agree with you on the Martello - Tahoe relationship. On the North and West sides Moon Dust (Northstar/Sawtooth/Jackass/Stanford) it's too squirrelly and never quite locks in. On the West and South sides DG (Armstrong Corral/Toads/Clear Creek/etc)
    Its just pushes and plows and is way too floaty and drifty (stays on top of the DG and never digs in). Although I will say the Martello is awesome on the big granite stuff on the SE side. It sounds to me like the perfect setup for me will be Mazza 2.6 front and Martello 2.6 rear. Super curious to see how the Mazza digs into the loose stuff and finds traction, but also to see how it handles the Granite stuff. Hopefully the knobs are well bolstered enough to not roll over and slide/skip off the rocks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trudeez View Post
    It sounds like from what Jeff wrote earlier that the Mazza is going to be a really good option for Tahoe. It sounds like it will dig into the loose stuff more and be able to find some purchase deep down in there. I personally love the Martello for riding around Reno in the hard pack desert stuff, and even when it starts to blow out mid summer. Martello for me is 75% of the time my go to tire. But I wholeheartedly agree with you on the Martello - Tahoe relationship. On the North and West sides Moon Dust (Northstar/Sawtooth/Jackass/Stanford) it's too squirrelly and never quite locks in. On the West and South sides DG (Armstrong Corral/Toads/Clear Creek/etc)
    Its just pushes and plows and is way too floaty and drifty (stays on top of the DG and never digs in). Although I will say the Martello is awesome on the big granite stuff on the SE side. It sounds to me like the perfect setup for me will be Mazza 2.6 front and Martello 2.6 rear. Super curious to see how the Mazza digs into the loose stuff and finds traction, but also to see how it handles the Granite stuff. Hopefully the knobs are well bolstered enough to not roll over and slide/skip off the rocks.
    Ok that was kinda what I had taken from his post after a quick read but wasn't sure. I ended up ripping a knob on the Agarro rear last week that resulted in it being a no go for plug. Plug wouldn't hold/seal and trying multiple times to insert the plug just resulted in the tear getting larger right at the base of a center row knob.

    I am thinking aside from that though the Agarro has been great, even in the smaller 2.35 size (which admittedly is more like a 2.3). I am thinking I may go for the Mazza 2.6 front and Agarro 2.6 rear. Carson is a little more blown out and sandy like the north and thus the Martello doesn't quite have the bite I am looking for. Currently have a backup Ardent 2.3 on the rear and I now remember why it was a "backup" literally slide for a good 10ft-15ft tonight not going very fast on a downhill section while attempting to stop and let and uphill climber pass.

  30. #30
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    Impatiently waiting for Mazza to launch. I hear they are in the US warehouse. What gives? The season has started!

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    I'm in need of a new front tire as well very soon and for the first time in a couple of years, I don't have my next tire on the shelf ready to go.
    Can't buy another 2.6 Martello (my current fav), can't get the Mazza or the Edge 22 soft. Have tried every other contender and already ruled them out.
    Not really my riding season with the heat so just biding my time.

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    https://www.facebook.com/35462338137...8901743942826/

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    Won't be long now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bogeydog View Post
    https://www.facebook.com/35462338137...8901743942826/

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    Finally! Really want to swap the 2.35 martello on the front to a 2.4 or 2.6 mazza for a bit more bite in loose stuff.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TallPaul_S View Post
    Finally! Really want to swap the 2.35 martello on the front to a 2.4 or 2.6 mazza for a bit more bite in loose stuff.
    How wide is the 2.3 Martello on what ID wheel?
    Thanks.
    My 2.6 Martello is not what it was and this morning I lost the front and crashed hard. The pain was outsized for the crash as I can barely move now!

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  36. #36
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    Anyone else notice the spec sheets and stock photos on these builds?

    https://theloamwolf.com/2020/04/30/e...s-onset-mt-29/

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    The web page sort of works. https://www.vittoria.com/us/mazza-enduro-tire

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    Quote Originally Posted by TylerVernon View Post
    Yeah release is tomorrow I would guess.

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    I suspect tomorrow as well will be the Mazza release.
    Still trying to decide in what conditions will the Mazza be superior to the Martello 2.6, that I consider fantastic. I'm not one to study tread designs all that much.
    Assuming the Martello is superior when it's hard pack or rock slabs whereas the Mazza will be better in loose dirt/ rock because of larger tread spacing? Also the Mazza should be lighter since it won't have all those chunky knobs.
    If that's the case, the Martello is a better fit for my hard summer terrain, but then I consider the place I actually need more traction is the loose spots and rarely the hard pack.


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    Hmm, 2.6 will be on my bike very soon I think.

    The side knobs are more aggressive than the martello I think, and more spacing too.

    Both EU and US sites fully live, videos too.

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Vittoria Mazza-mazza-tread-graphics.jpg  


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    They won't let you click 'buy' just yet. Maybe later today.
    Glad I waited for the Mazza instead of ordering another Martello.

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    Weight kinda kills it for me. Considering the 2.6" appears to measure narrower and weigh far more than my 2.5" DHF MaxxGrip...

    https://www.pinkbike.com/news/review...azza-tire.html

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    I ordered one.
    I did expect it to be lighter. However the Martello is heavier than it's competitors yet better in every way so I'm not going to let that dissuade me. Also I can skip running an insert in a front Vittoria which isn't possible in a 950 gram front tire.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Suns_PSD View Post
    I ordered one.
    I did expect it to be lighter. However the Martello is heavier than it's competitors yet better in every way so I'm not going to let that dissuade me. Also I can skip running an insert in a front Vittoria which isn't possible in a 950 gram front tire.

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    Ordered where?

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    Pretty cool video on gmbn: https://youtu.be/WINUlq2y8QM

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    Quote Originally Posted by bogeydog View Post
    Ordered where?

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    I ordered one direct from their site. It is allowing you to purchase now as of 7:30am PST.
    I ordered the trail 2.4 seeing as they are calling is a 60mm casing tire. Will report back, I am not a huge fan of large tires and always loved the Goma 2.4 as it always came in a little larger at about 2.5 on my i29 rims. Sooooo, hopefully the same will be true for these. If for some reason it doesn't then I will just shift to the rear and order the 2.6 for the front.

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    Quote Originally Posted by matt.s67 View Post
    Weight kinda kills it for me. Considering the 2.6" appears to measure narrower and weigh far more than my 2.5" DHF MaxxGrip...

    https://www.pinkbike.com/news/review...azza-tire.html
    Take everything from Pinkbike with a grain of salt, I find them to be a bit overly critical if it is not a MAJOR brand (FOX, RS, Maxxis, Schwalbe, etc.) and doesn't overly impress them out of the gate. But that is just my perception.

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    It's a shame there's no 2.8 version, I'm planning on a mullet winter hardtail build later this year, 27.5 mazza at the back and a 29 2.35" mota up front would be perfect. It'll still work with the 2.6 I think.

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    Maybe the 2.8 would have almost been a 2.6.

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    I think another deciding factor is they make this in a 2.4, the Martello doesnít have that option.

    If this performs anything like a DHF in the dry SoCal loose over hard/hard pack, Iím in.


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    Quote Originally Posted by bogeydog View Post
    Ordered where?

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    Yep, off the website. I need a front tire ASAP and didn't want to miss getting one due to possibly high demand.

    For me, the Martello 2.6 is in a class of 1 above all others. If the Mazza is superior I'll be shocked but reports seem to indicate that it might be.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Suns_PSD View Post
    Yep, off the website. I need a front tire ASAP and didn't want to miss getting one due to possibly high demand.

    For me, the Martello 2.6 is in a class of 1 above all others. If the Mazza is superior I'll be shocked but reports seem to indicate that it might be.
    Yeah... not overly keen on the smaller (2.35) Martello as a front tire however it is getting better after a bit of riding (still messing with pressures). And here is something for many to remember, in my experience in the about 10yrs I have been running Vittoria/Geax tires, they really shine in lower pressures. I am finding that the Martello up front doesn't really like more than about 20-24psi in the Tahoe Loam/NorNV High Desert terrain. So just something to note, take your normal pressures you run and drop them 2-5psi when running Vittorias, especially after a break-in period.

    Once I get the Mazza the Martello is going on the rear and that should be a great combo for me. If for whatever reason I don't like it (too small, squirrely) I will do like above and drop a 2.6 Mazza in front and save the Martello for a backup. This 2.3 Ardent is going in the bin when I am done, maybe on the commuter.

  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by matt.s67 View Post
    Weight kinda kills it for me. Considering the 2.6" appears to measure narrower and weigh far more than my 2.5" DHF MaxxGrip...

    https://www.pinkbike.com/news/review...azza-tire.html
    Unless you build the casing extremely heavy, any tire over about 2.55" is pretty horrible, without fail, in my experience.

    Even my wife (not an experienced or fast rider) despised the 2.6 Barzo I installed on her trail bike with all the same complaints that I've had with every large tire I've ridden.

    I think the only way someone could NOT hate a plus tire, is if they rode at extremely slow speeds either due to terrain or skill. Like mostly below 6 mph. Snowy, sandy, very root infested and slow going or something. Or very very smooth.

  55. #55
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    You can order here: https://www.vittoria.com/us/mazza-enduro-and-trail.html

    Looks good, weights in the TNT version are reasonable. Obviously a tire of the DHF variety, but appears to have more transition area.

    I'll be interested to see how the sizing comes up in the real world. I hate to be Goldilocks over here, but this is a front tire for me and I find a tire measuring around 2.45-2.5 being the most useful in my area.

    If I hadn't just picked up a Pinner for my next tire I'd be all over these. Guess I'll just have to wait

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    The 29 x 2.6 measures 2.51" wide.
    If it was any wider, I would have went with the 2.4".

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    I ordered the 2.4 size. A true 2.4 would be great. I am too iffy on 2.6 tires to risk it actually measuring 2.6.

    Quote Originally Posted by Suns_PSD View Post
    The 29 x 2.6 measures 2.51" wide.
    If it was any wider, I would have went with the 2.4".

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    Isn't this just a sample of one so far? Pinkbike?

    Quote Originally Posted by gregnash View Post
    Take everything from Pinkbike with a grain of salt, I find them to be a bit overly critical if it is not a MAJOR brand (FOX, RS, Maxxis, Schwalbe, etc.) and doesn't overly impress them out of the gate. But that is just my perception.
    It seemed like a really good review. Especially given their bias. Sort of wished he talked about the difference in performance between the 2.6 and 2.4 tires though. Beyond just measuring them and saying I rode both.

  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by cassieno View Post
    Isn't this just a sample of one so far? Pinkbike?
    Well, my 2.6 Martello measures the exact same size, with a nearly identical weight, and works very well. So I'm counting on it being the identical carcass. Also I have a 34mm ID wheel.
    Anyways, at that weight, it shouldn't be a bouncy pos.


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  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Suns_PSD View Post
    The 29 x 2.6 measures 2.51" wide.
    If it was any wider, I would have went with the 2.4".

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    I saw that in Pinkbike, but the tire looked like it hadn't even seen dirt yet. Vittoria tires definitely grow overnight...

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    I haven't had that experience, that Vittoria tires grow I mean. I would have said the opposite.

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  61. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Suns_PSD View Post
    I haven't had that experience, that Vittoria tires grow I mean. I would have said the opposite.

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    Really? I mean they definitely do stretch, I've measured this myself. More so than other brands.

    And didn't you pitch a fit that your Agarros had grown from 2.55 to 2.6 and were now unridable?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Suns_PSD View Post
    I haven't had that experience, that Vittoria tires grow I mean. I would have said the opposite.

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    Interesting.... So you are saying that you have had them shrink slightly?
    I have never seen that only the opposite. Usually at the point where they are almost overly tight when first installing brand new. When I measured my 2.35 martello when I got it, it was right about 2.3 or so, but now it has seemed to expand. Like anything, tires need break in time.

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    A Barzo I installed on my wife's bike grew 1/10 of an inch. It was a POS both before and after the stretch however. I'm sure if I had ordered the 2.35 version it would have been fine for that application.

    I guess all tires stretch a bit, I just don't think of Vittoria tires with thicker casings as 'growers' but then that's not a goal of mine so that whole 'overinflate tire all night to grow it' thing never mattered to me. I usually measure them after the first ride and don't bother again unless someone on a forum requests it.

    Checking to see if their is a correlation between size and performance is worthwhile, but choosing a tire based on that particular requirement above others is silly, as some seem to do.

    Tyler managed to get a refund on his undersized 2.6 but I couldn't get Vittoria to give me an exchange for a good tire to replace the shitty, by design 2.6 I bought.

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    This thread is starting to turn bad. We all understand that all tires do not perform in all situations, etc. No need to overboard projecting your feelings as they really don't mean anything and lose impact when you go to far.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DrewBird View Post
    Really? I mean they definitely do stretch, I've measured this myself. More so than other brands.

    And didn't you pitch a fit that your Agarros had grown from 2.55 to 2.6 and were now unridable?
    I think Suns puts too much air in his 2.6 tires.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Suns_PSD View Post
    The 29 x 2.6 measures 2.51" wide.
    If it was any wider, I would have went with the 2.4".

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    Where'd you get this number? Pinkbike measured it at 2.466" on i30 rim. Not a huge difference, but I'm curious.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Suns_PSD View Post
    Checking to see if their is a correlation between size and performance is worthwhile, but choosing a tire based on that particular requirement above others is silly, as some seem to do.
    Of course it's silly to pick a tire based on size above all else, but that doesn't mean it's irrelevant. In the PB review, the photos make the 2.4 look too square imo, the 2.6 looks perfect, both on i30 rims. I probably would have chosen the 2.4 based on weight alone, but that square profile has me leaning toward the 2.6

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    Can anyone comment on how the Vittoria compounds perform on wet roots and rocks?

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    Quote Originally Posted by GT87 View Post
    Can anyone comment on how the Vittoria compounds perform on wet roots and rocks?
    Honestly for me in the past that has been the crux of the tires I have run (Goma, Barzo, Martello, Agarro). They provide some grip but not something that I would consider awesome. However, my sample set for wet rock riding has been very limited.

    In other news, just got shipment confirmation of the new Mazza!!! Should be here by the weekend it looks like (via 3day).

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    Quote Originally Posted by gregnash View Post
    Honestly for me in the past that has been the crux of the tires I have run (Goma, Barzo, Martello, Agarro). They provide some grip but not something that I would consider awesome. However, my sample set for wet rock riding has been very limited.

    In other news, just got shipment confirmation of the new Mazza!!! Should be here by the weekend it looks like (via 3day).
    Thanks. For context, what tires/compounds are you comparing to that you consider to perform better in wet conditions?

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    Quote Originally Posted by GT87 View Post
    Thanks. For context, what tires/compounds are you comparing to that you consider to perform better in wet conditions?

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    Don't really ride in wet conditions. We either have hero dirt or nasty, soupy mud. If the trails are like that we normally don't ride.
    And when I say "CRUX" I mean that they DON"T do well. However, i have all but never ridden anything other than Vittoria, too many issues with other brands not holding up. Run 4 different maxxis tires in the last years time, ripped unrepairable holes in 3 of them the fourth is the Ardent that I hate with a passion.

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    The 29x2.4 trail option is essentially the same weight as a 2.4 dhr2 exo and it sounds like it rolls a little quicker than a dhf without any transition zone when cornering, has 4C compound, etc. I'm a pretty devoted maxxis fan and have never used Vittoria tires before but now I'm curious about using one of these tires on the front of my bike when my 2.4 dhr2 eventually wears down. I'll check out rider reviews for sure as people get this tire to see if its as good as I anticipate.

    The vittoria website with the weights: https://www.vittoria.com/us/mazza-enduro-and-trail.html

  73. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by gregnash View Post
    Don't really ride in wet conditions. We either have hero dirt or nasty, soupy mud. If the trails are like that we normally don't ride.
    And when I say "CRUX" I mean that they DON"T do well. However, i have all but never ridden anything other than Vittoria, too many issues with other brands not holding up. Run 4 different maxxis tires in the last years time, ripped unrepairable holes in 3 of them the fourth is the Ardent that I hate with a passion.
    So, you don't ride in the wet, but then you say they "DON"T do well"... huh?

    Anyone actually spent time on Vittoria 4c tires in wet conditions (think wet/damp roots/rocks) that can comment on grip? Preferably compared to schwalbe addix soft or maxxis maxxterra

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  74. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by GT87 View Post
    So, you don't ride in the wet, but then you say they "DON"T do well"... huh?

    Anyone actually spent time on Vittoria 4c tires in wet conditions (think wet/damp roots/rocks) that can comment on grip? Preferably compared to schwalbe addix soft or maxxis maxxterra

    Sent from my moto g(7) power using Tapatalk
    Running a 2.5 DHF whatever with a 2.6 Agarro in the back, rode the rock gardens after a morning rain a week ago... while the DHF was skittish and unsure which was it would lead us sliding to and fro, the Agarro showed no remorse as it clawed itís way up and over every obstacle maintaining momentum and never lost grip... I canít fathom how to resist the temptation while the DHF is far from wearing out...but it was free, hmmm...Vittoria, take my money!!!!!

  75. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by GT87 View Post
    Where'd you get this number? Pinkbike measured it at 2.466" on i30 rim. Not a huge difference, but I'm curious.
    Math was slightly off.


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    Quote Originally Posted by GT87 View Post
    So, you don't ride in the wet, but then you say they "DON"T do well"... huh?

    Anyone actually spent time on Vittoria 4c tires in wet conditions (think wet/damp roots/rocks) that can comment on grip? Preferably compared to schwalbe addix soft or maxxis maxxterra

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    Iím in Seattle, probably 80% of my rides involve at least some wet root/rock content and this tends to be the traction limiter so tires that do well in this setting are what Iím looking for.

    I find Vittorias to do quite well. IME keys to good wet grip are supple casing, quality rubber, modestly tall lugs and plenty of siping. Vittoria have all three of these. The Martellos are very good wet weather tires, those huge square shoulder blocks put a lot of rubber in contact with the trail.

    I find Vittorias to be clearly superior to Maxxis for equivalent tires in this regard. Agarros are way better than Rekons, Martellos much better than DHFs. I expect Mazzas will be a solid options. Schwalbes do OK in the wet but I donít love their tread and casing options; Magic Mary 2.6 Apex tires are huge and vague feeling, Snakeskin is too light and lacks support.

    The very best tires for wet roots and rocks, and my current go-to do-all setup, is Continental Der Baron/Der Kaiser. Awesome goldilocks tires for our PNW conditions. These have a great (new) casing thatís tough and supple while not too heavy, the tread patterns dig into loose loamy dirt without being so tall they squirm on roots and rocks, and the Black Chili rubber has some kind of magical suction properties that just holds on to wet stuff.

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    I ride in the UK, and last winter was one of the wettest we've seen for a while - I was expecting to have to swap to a Moto but the martello (2.35 front and rear) coped really well. That's mostly natural trails: mud, lots of roots, loam.

  78. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by GT87 View Post
    So, you don't ride in the wet, but then you say they "DON"T do well"... huh?

    Anyone actually spent time on Vittoria 4c tires in wet conditions (think wet/damp roots/rocks) that can comment on grip? Preferably compared to schwalbe addix soft or maxxis maxxterra

    Sent from my moto g(7) power using Tapatalk
    What I am saying is that the few times I have ridden any of the mentioned in the wet, they haven't done great. Don't normally (as in try to avoid it, if bad) ride in the wet as I live in High Desert terrain.

  79. #79
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    We don't really ride mud here, and in fact wet trail riding is highly discouraged.
    However recently I got trapped in a heavy down pour every bit of 10 miles from the trail head. The Martello became pretty useless in our mud that's real sticky as the tire looked like a slick. If I were choosing tires for those conditions I'd want something more open looking.
    Doesn't matter as I don't ride those conditions intentionally.
    My Mazza arrives Wednesday.

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  80. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Suns_PSD View Post
    Math was slightly off.


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    What thread is that on?


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    Quote Originally Posted by socalrider77 View Post
    What thread is that on?


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    The home page of this very website. It's a review.

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    Lots of people run morsa rear with xr5/dhr2/dhf front or etc. This is likely the tire to kick those combinations. If it delivers xr5 like speed and grip for days in all conditions it should be a stellar combination that gets you from point a to point b but still digs in through the turns.

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    My front 2.6 Martello has held up great as you can see. However the outer knob sipes are worn and maybe this is why traction has fallen off a bit. It still holds very well, it's just not where it was and I can tell.
    I did lose the front end last weekend in a turn hard enough to crash and the result was a locked up back (old MX injury that rarely bothers me) which is sort of a freak thing.
    If the Mazza rolls like the Martello but somehow improves on traction further I'd be blown away. But it might be a couple of weeks before I can determine that.

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    My Mazza is out for delivery! Will grab pics and weight tonight, need to stop at the shop and grab some more orange sealant.
    Probably going to have to retape the rear as the stock stuff was coming off pretty badly (from DT).

  85. #85
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    Really curious to see some more real world weights on the 2.6 Mazza trail casing. Like others, a 29er 950-1000g 2.4-2.5" is my sweet spot front tire for trail riding and I don't get a long with 2.6's. Funny how fine of a line it is.

    Also curious to hear comparisons of this Vittoria 120TPI casing vs the typical Maxxis 60TPI EXO that I run up front. I don't get along with the 120TPI EXO casings that Maxxis puts on their 2.6's... I need a little more damping from the tire.

    Quote Originally Posted by DrewBird View Post
    The very best tires for wet roots and rocks, and my current go-to do-all setup, is Continental Der Baron/Der Kaiser. Awesome goldilocks tires for our PNW conditions. These have a great (new) casing thatís tough and supple while not too heavy, the tread patterns dig into loose loamy dirt without being so tall they squirm on roots and rocks, and the Black Chili rubber has some kind of magical suction properties that just holds on to wet stuff.
    I keep reading this across several sites. Work has asked me to consider moving from the dry, dusty southwest to the Seattle area... I'm going to have to relearn all sorts of treads and compounds!
    I like 'em long, low, slack and playful

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    1088.
    That's 50 grams lighter that my 2.6 Martello.

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    I have 2.4s coming tomorrow and will weigh.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Suns_PSD View Post
    1088.
    That's 50 grams lighter that my 2.6 Martello.
    1100g is the listed weight for a 2.6 TNT Mazza. So weight is pretty much dead on.

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    Measuring the tire with the tires spread flat the new Mazza was 1/8 - 1/4" shorter across than the well used Martello. I find this to be a good method to judge overall volume.

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    The center knobs are considerably deeper and spaced further apart on the Mazza than they are on the Martello. I suspect it will roll slower due to this additional flex but then I have learned to never judge a book by it's cover.

    Larger spacing between the knobs in general will certainly help the Mazza bite better on loose rock and dirt as it can dig in.

    Martello probably has an edge on hardpack and slabs, if I were to guess.

    I think it's just a Martello carcass missing 50 grams of knobs and will eventually stretch to about 2.5-2.52". That's not a bad thing.

  91. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrewBird View Post

    The very best tires for wet roots and rocks, and my current go-to do-all setup, is Continental Der Baron/Der Kaiser. Awesome goldilocks tires for our PNW conditions. These have a great (new) casing thatís tough and supple while not too heavy, the tread patterns dig into loose loamy dirt without being so tall they squirm on roots and rocks, and the Black Chili rubber has some kind of magical suction properties that just holds on to wet stuff.
    Hi DrewBird,

    I'm in coastal N Cal and also like the Der Baron in damp/wet conditions here, have run it as a front w/ a mtn king rear the last two winters. While I've really liked the Der Baron, "supple" is never a word I'd use to describe it. I've had 2 different 29x2.4 Der Baron Projekt Apexs both with 2018 production codes.

    Has something changed with 2019 or 2020 versions?


    Today I've just mounted up 29 x 2.6 Martello Front & Agarro Rear for summer!

    Excited to see how people like this Mazza as well!

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    What's the inner width of your rim Suns?

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    Quote Originally Posted by cassieno View Post
    What's the inner width of your rim Suns?
    33-34mm ID up front.

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    Scrap

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    Quote Originally Posted by Suns_PSD View Post
    33-34mm ID up front.

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    Thanks for the pics and info. Profile looks pretty square. Seems that both the 2.4 and 2.6 are undersized (ok by me). The 2.4 in the pinkbike review looked really square and measured 2.38 on an i30 rim. It seems like the 2.6 may end up being the perfect size and profile on an i30 rim.

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    Got the 2.4 TNT Mazza tonight and instantly threw it on and went for a ride. Popped on my DT Swiss 1900s (i29 rims) super easy, quick blast of the air compressor seated the bead, no problems.

    Untitled by Greg Fisicaro, on Flickr

    Untitled by Greg Fisicaro, on Flickr
    Untitled by Greg Fisicaro, on Flickr

    Those pics are just after getting aired up and sealant in, at about 40psi to help thing settle. Let it spin on the wheel for a good hour or so to get sealant spread out and then went for a ride.
    I live in High Desert Northern NV so in my normal ride I have dry desert loose over hard, to rocky, root, chunky gnar. Lots of variation within a 17mile ride from my doorstep. Can easily climb a couple miles and be in Lake Tahoe loam which is vastly different terrain, that will be later this week.
    Moved the 2.35" Martello to the rear so combo is now Mazza/Martello. First impressions, dear god I felt like I was on rails! Normal sections were the rear was easily breaking loose or the front would wander because of dry and loose dirt I just stuck corners. The Mazza is DEFINITELY the spiritual successor to the Goma. #iminlove

    So for me, after the first impressions and riding for what felt like MONTHS on a sketchy setup that wanted to slide out, wander and whatnot, I know feel that I can plow into corners and just TRUST THE BIKE. I actually had to slam on the brakes when a kid was coming over a berm (they were sessioning a jump) and didn't see/hear me. I had done this a couple weeks ago with the Ardent 2.3 in the rear and literally skid for yards. Tonight, the tire just bit into the dirt and I slowed considerably without actually skidding. That was a great feeling. Cornering grip was awesome and few rocky climbs I have felt surefooted!

    I think I found my new goto combo. Curious how things would be in a 2.6 variant but don't know if I want the weight penalty.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gregnash View Post
    Got the 2.4 TNT Mazza tonight and instantly threw it on and went for a ride. Popped on my DT Swiss 1900s (i29 rims) super easy, quick blast of the air compressor seated the bead, no problems.

    Untitled by Greg Fisicaro, on Flickr

    Untitled by Greg Fisicaro, on Flickr
    Untitled by Greg Fisicaro, on Flickr

    Those pics are just after getting aired up and sealant in, at about 40psi to help thing settle. Let it spin on the wheel for a good hour or so to get sealant spread out and then went for a ride.
    I live in High Desert Northern NV so in my normal ride I have dry desert loose over hard, to rocky, root, chunky gnar. Lots of variation within a 17mile ride from my doorstep. Can easily climb a couple miles and be in Lake Tahoe loam which is vastly different terrain, that will be later this week.
    Moved the 2.35" Martello to the rear so combo is now Mazza/Martello. First impressions, dear god I felt like I was on rails! Normal sections were the rear was easily breaking loose or the front would wander because of dry and loose dirt I just stuck corners. The Mazza is DEFINITELY the spiritual successor to the Goma. #iminlove

    So for me, after the first impressions and riding for what felt like MONTHS on a sketchy setup that wanted to slide out, wander and whatnot, I know feel that I can plow into corners and just TRUST THE BIKE. I actually had to slam on the brakes when a kid was coming over a berm (they were sessioning a jump) and didn't see/hear me. I had done this a couple weeks ago with the Ardent 2.3 in the rear and literally skid for yards. Tonight, the tire just bit into the dirt and I slowed considerably without actually skidding. That was a great feeling. Cornering grip was awesome and few rocky climbs I have felt surefooted!

    I think I found my new goto combo. Curious how things would be in a 2.6 variant but don't know if I want the weight penalty.
    The 29x2.4 sounds perfect. Under 1000g and decent sizing


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    Quote Originally Posted by gregnash View Post
    Got the 2.4 TNT Mazza tonight and instantly threw it on and went for a ride. Popped on my DT Swiss 1900s (i29 rims) super easy, quick blast of the air compressor seated the bead, no problems.

    Untitled by Greg Fisicaro, on Flickr

    Untitled by Greg Fisicaro, on Flickr
    Untitled by Greg Fisicaro, on Flickr

    Those pics are just after getting aired up and sealant in, at about 40psi to help thing settle. Let it spin on the wheel for a good hour or so to get sealant spread out and then went for a ride.
    I live in High Desert Northern NV so in my normal ride I have dry desert loose over hard, to rocky, root, chunky gnar. Lots of variation within a 17mile ride from my doorstep. Can easily climb a couple miles and be in Lake Tahoe loam which is vastly different terrain, that will be later this week.
    Moved the 2.35" Martello to the rear so combo is now Mazza/Martello. First impressions, dear god I felt like I was on rails! Normal sections were the rear was easily breaking loose or the front would wander because of dry and loose dirt I just stuck corners. The Mazza is DEFINITELY the spiritual successor to the Goma. #iminlove

    So for me, after the first impressions and riding for what felt like MONTHS on a sketchy setup that wanted to slide out, wander and whatnot, I know feel that I can plow into corners and just TRUST THE BIKE. I actually had to slam on the brakes when a kid was coming over a berm (they were sessioning a jump) and didn't see/hear me. I had done this a couple weeks ago with the Ardent 2.3 in the rear and literally skid for yards. Tonight, the tire just bit into the dirt and I slowed considerably without actually skidding. That was a great feeling. Cornering grip was awesome and few rocky climbs I have felt surefooted!

    I think I found my new goto combo. Curious how things would be in a 2.6 variant but don't know if I want the weight penalty.
    RR changes?

    How wide was the 2.35 Martello mounted? Was considering that for my wife's next front.

    I have an injured back and will not be able to test my Mazza for sometime, maybe a week or two.

  100. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Suns_PSD View Post
    RR changes?

    How wide was the 2.35 Martello mounted? Was considering that for my wife's next front.

    I have an injured back and will not be able to test my Mazza for sometime, maybe a week or two.
    What is RR changes?

    Martello was true to size if a little smaller, but not much. I will remeasure tonight when I am home. I did't really care for the smaller Martello up front as it seemed to drift and want to wander in our sandier conditions. Mazza up front is a perfect tire it seems for our conditions/terrain.

  101. #101
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    RR = Rolling Resistance compared to the 2.35 Martello that came off the front of the bike?
    Probably impossible to tell as you also swapped your rear tire.

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  102. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Suns_PSD View Post
    RR = Rolling Resistance compared to the 2.35 Martello that came off the front of the bike?
    Probably impossible to tell as you also swapped your rear tire.

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    Mazza is slower than the Martello, as you might expect. The taller, wider spaced knobs are not as continuous and smooth-rolling. I swap between Mazza F / Agarro R and Agarro F/R, and the difference in speed is noticeable, even swapping front only.

  103. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Full Send View Post
    Mazza is slower than the Martello, as you might expect. The taller, wider spaced knobs are not as continuous and smooth-rolling. I swap between Mazza F / Agarro R and Agarro F/R, and the difference in speed is noticeable, even swapping front only.
    That's what I figured. Much faster than say an Assagai hopefully?
    My tolerance for lower RR might have increased since a front end washout last weekend has left me nearly incapacitated due to back pain.
    My 2.6 Mazza grew to 2.49" overnight. Still yet to be ridden.

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  104. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Full Send View Post
    Mazza is slower than the Martello, as you might expect. The taller, wider spaced knobs are not as continuous and smooth-rolling. I swap between Mazza F / Agarro R and Agarro F/R, and the difference in speed is noticeable, even swapping front only.
    Which do you prefer?

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  105. #105
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    Honestly I did not feel a considerable difference. What I did feel is the sidewall stiffness is a bit more than the Martello and thus the small bump compliance became a bit stiffer as well.
    Or atleast that is what I have concluded at this point. Hell I have been on my Lyrik for a year now and still attempting to tune the damn thing to feel compliant and not stiff. Just come to the conclusion that I either have to have my teeth rattled on chattery stuff to have it supple elsewhere or have it supple through the chattery stuff and have it ride like a pogo stick elsewhere.

    Anyways, RR is not enough for me to notice on the 2 mile road ride to the TH. To me it feels comparable to the Goma which I considered a fairly fast rolling front tire for how knobby it is. On the dirt I do not feel like it add any additional drag, but the traction is definitely there. However, I am no speed demon on climbs or anything, so take with a grain of salt.

  106. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by bogeydog View Post
    Which do you prefer?

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    I ride Agarro F/R most of the time on my trail bike, as it's just so fast and the breakaway is predictable. Traction and ride feel over rough stuff is amazing at the speeds my trails allow (most of the stuff I ride is technical and not that high-speed). I have a second front wheel with a 2.4 Mazza, which I throw on when I want to shred some downhill segments (the grip is noticeably higher) or head to the bike park for a day. The Agarro stays on the rear. Overall I'd describe the Mazza as a DHF with Vittoria's ride feel and tread compounds (this is a good thing).

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    looking forward to getting my 2.4 mazza and 2.3 aggaro combo next week .
    How does the 2.3 aggaro look on a 30mm int rim is it square ?

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    Just waiting for somewhere in the UK to get some stock. Most of my trails are loamy, or looser and dusty when it's been dry a while. Then muddy when wet.

    So a bit more edge 'dig' on a front tyre will be more than welcome!!

  109. #109
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    Super interested in trying these out.

    This seems to be the year for me where tires don't want to stay on the rim. I've installed cushcore, bumped up the psi to concrete-like levels and I'm still pulling the beads out in corners. Washing sealant off of my legs is getting old.

    So what really excites me is the butyl sidewall insert across the entire range of tires. I think that's the ticket. I've been humming and hawing about ordering some DD tires but I really don't need the extra puncture resistance (I'm not very heavy and rarely puncture tires ... knock on wood) and it'd be great to get a tire with a stiffer sidewall without having to mount the 3lb doubledowns. The single ply casing in these tires seems to be the next logical step.

    Looking forward to hearing some impressions. It'll give me something to do while I figure out where the heck I can buy these in my neck of the woods.

  110. #110
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    It sounds like your rims aren't doing what they should. What rims are you on?

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    Quote Originally Posted by cassieno View Post
    It sounds like your rims aren't doing what they should. What rims are you on?
    I would agree with this... Sounds like the bead seat on your rims has worn out and is no longer grabbing the bead of the tire. Maybe time for new rims? Or possibly could be that you have the tubeless tape too high on the rim wall.

  112. #112
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    Heh, as much as I'd love to blame the wheel, it's a brand new EX511. Certainly more than enough for a dufus like me. Tape is the proper stuff from. DT too /shrug.

    Though I could blame the new bike (Madonna v2). Corners better than anything I've ever ridden and allows a guy to try turning at speeds he shouldn't be allowed to.

    I'll check the tape next time I have the wheel apart. Besides that, I'm certainly open to suggestions (without derailing the discussion of course) .

    Thanks!

  113. #113
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    I got my 2.4 Mezza. Weighs 960g. Measures 60.7mm at the casing at 35 psi on i30 rims.

    So pretty much exactly the same as gregnash. I have been looking for a good middle ground between a 2.3 and 2.5 dhf. This looks like it probably is.

  114. #114
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    Anyone tried a Martello in the back? An Aggaro isnít going to cut it around here, my choices will be either a Mazza F/R, or with a Martello

  115. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harryman View Post
    Anyone tried a Martello in the back? An Aggaro isnít going to cut it around here, my choices will be either a Mazza F/R, or with a Martello
    Currently running the martello in the rear. The Agarro was definitely faster rolling but not by a whole lot, rolling resistance is there but the grip and traction is an incredible pay off.

  116. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by daniel366940 View Post
    looking forward to getting my 2.4 mazza and 2.3 aggaro combo next week .
    How does the 2.3 aggaro look on a 30mm int rim is it square ?
    No.

  117. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by daniel366940 View Post
    looking forward to getting my 2.4 mazza and 2.3 aggaro combo next week .
    How does the 2.3 aggaro look on a 30mm int rim is it square ?
    It looks like this:
    Vittoria Mazza-img_20200619_083636.jpg

  118. #118
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    2.4 Mazza on i30 rims (at 35 psi)

    Vittoria Mazza-mazza-2.4.jpg
    Vittoria Mazza-mazza-2.4-farther-back.jpg

  119. #119
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    Vittoria Mazza

    Quote Originally Posted by Velodonata View Post
    It looks like this:
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_20200619_083636.jpg 
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    That looks good for a 2.3 on a 30mm rim

    I think Mazza 2.4 front agarro 2.3 rear would be a great setup


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  120. #120
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    After 24 hours at 35 psi. Casing measures 2.44 inches now.

  121. #121
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    My 2 Mazza 2.4 are 972 and 977g. Mounted on Nobl TR37 is 2.3967 inches at 35 psi. I will let sit overnight.

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  122. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by cassieno View Post
    After 24 hours at 35 psi. Casing measures 2.44 inches now.
    You measured after you reduced to riding pressure, correct?

  123. #123
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    I have a 2.4 Mazza and 2.35 agarro coming in this week. 30mm internal rims, 29er. I will post up weights and widths when I have them. Coming from 2.3 specialized butcher and eliminator that I have enjoyed for the most part

  124. #124
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    I have not. Still tooling around at 35 psi - couple days loss. I wanted r an accurate psi to psi measurement first. Not going to ride until next weekend.

  125. #125
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    Measured today after 24 hours at 35psi. Measured 60.07mm at 20psi which is spot on 2.4 inches.

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  126. #126
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    Sorry typo. 61.07mm

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  127. #127
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    Ordered a 27.5 x2.6 mazza what a great tire. Very impressed with how fast it rolls for such an aggressive tire. I recently have been trying different tires i have used the hans damf 2.35,Nobby nic 2.35,Maxxis agressor 2.5wt of those my best results were the hans dampf. But this Mazza is so confidence inspiring first ride today had my fastest times on local trail. My rear tire is a aggaro 2.6 i love it.

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  128. #128
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    So bummed I can't get out and put my Mazza thru the paces, have a rib that popped out of it's cartlidge socket and I'm supposed to not even strain myself for a month much less fall on it.

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  129. #129
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    A MONTH! You'd better get on the trainer or you're going to hate going to slow with atrophied little muscles.

  130. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by TylerVernon View Post
    A MONTH! You'd better get on the trainer or you're going to hate going to slow with atrophied little muscles.
    Does beer drinking count as exercise?
    If so, I'll be ready for the EWS soon!

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    So, my main complaints when I have run DHFís are:

    1) that on off camber, or when obstructions prevent me from leaning all the way over for a corner, that the vague transition zone reduces confidence and grip in those situations where I cannot get all the way over onto the side knobs

    And

    2) the fact that the cornering edges wear off way too soon greatly hurting performance


    I have been very happy on the martello as it addresses both of these, and while it does not have quite the absolute grip in loose or loose over hard when you compare new to new, it is so much better on rock and hard pack. It also rolls faster and maintains performance longer than the DHF. (After just a month the Martello is better than a month old DHF everywhere).

    So my question. Does the Mazza have that same vague transition as the DHF? It looks like it would based on the big channel. If not it may be a perfectly front tire for me as I imagine it will outlast the DHF just like the martello does.

  132. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by Suns_PSD View Post
    So bummed I can't get out and put my Mazza thru the paces, have a rib that popped out of it's cartlidge socket and I'm supposed to not even strain myself for a month much less fall on it.

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    Ouch, man, that sounds painful. Heal up fast!

  133. #133
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    Whelp, i went for a gentle XC ride anyways.
    To me, the Mazza felt a bit draggy. But then it's 98 degrees, 88% humidity, and I can barely breathe so who knows.
    I can't report on traction.

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  134. #134
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    The 2.6 is an 1100g enduro tire. I would be surprised if it didn't feel a little draggy. Does it feel more draggy than a comparable tire? Like a 2.5 DHF?

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    Well - got mine in today. 29er , 2.4 trail variant

    Weight - 975g

    Have it mounted on a 30 internal width rim to stretch it out. At ~ 30 PSI:

    Casing 2.33"
    Tread 2.26"

    It looks much rounder and narrower than my 2.3 Specialized Butcher when lining them up. Hoping it stretches a bit.

  136. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by cassieno View Post
    The 2.6 is an 1100g enduro tire. I would be surprised if it didn't feel a little draggy. Does it feel more draggy than a comparable tire? Like a 2.5 DHF?
    Ride a 2.6 Martello and you'll understand my standard.
    The Martello has more traction than a DHF 2.5 3c and rolls like a 2.6 Dissector but without the bounce (and the complete lack of traction, obviously).

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  137. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by jcmonty View Post
    Well - got mine in today. 29er , 2.4 trail variant

    Weight - 975g

    Have it mounted on a 30 internal width rim to stretch it out. At ~ 30 PSI:

    Casing 2.33"
    Tread 2.26"

    It looks much rounder and narrower than my 2.3 Specialized Butcher when lining them up. Hoping it stretches a bit.
    Keep us posted on how it compares with the Butcher. Specialized have been my go-to tires for years, but Vittoria is tempting me.

  138. #138
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    I've just noticed the 29x2.6 trail variant only comes in full black, not anthracite, anyone with the 29 2.6 TNT trail confirm this? If so, it looks like I'm going for the 2.4 version!

  139. #139
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    From this review / picture it looks like it does come in Anthracite? And that's probably a labeling error.

    https://reviews.mtbr.com/vittoria-ma...in-tire-review

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    Yeah, plus someone posted a pic above of a 29 2.6 trail in anthracite. Seems vittoria have both thier US and EU sites with errors then.

  141. #141
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    Any more ride reports?

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    I am on my 3rd ride with 27.5 x2.6 mazza on front and 2.6 aggaro on rear. I am i can say i have have been very happy with the performance i am railing corners and not having to worry if my tire is gonna grip plus i am amazed at how well they roll.

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  143. #143
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    Have a handful of short rides on it (29x2.4) with the Martello rear (29x2.35) and still absolutely love this combo. Such great traction and control, rear will allow for break-loose very predictably. I have yet to find a fault on the Mazza where it is searching for traction or hit a vague spot in the tread pattern.

  144. #144
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    Finally got out with the 29x2.4 Mazza It's great. Does everything you want. I have ridden 2.5 DHFs, 2.3 DHFs, and an XR4 on the front of this bike. Feels similar ish to the 2.5 DHF without the dead spots. I did not ride them back to back so going off of almost a year of trying to remember here. I recently had the XR4 up front and it was "fine", but not nearly as sticky as the Mazza.

    I think the casing is more supportive than EXO and I can run lower pressures that I was with my DHFs, but haven't figured out exactly what those pressures are yet.

    The Agarro rear seems to be slightly mismatched to it. Agarro grips amazing well climbing / straight line braking and can be very controlled slides. But is more sensitive to "doing things right." I wonder how much slower a Martello rear would be.

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    Just waiting on my brake rotor adapters to build up my new wheelset with that combo. The agarro does look a bit lightweight for anything loose, but I am curious to see how it does!

  146. #146
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    Had a solid ride on the Mazza front today. Starting to feel normal after injuring myself 2 weeks ago so this was my first real ride, but I wasn't at my best.
    It does have mad traction (Assagai like I'd say but without the horrible RR), and it does roll a bit slower than the Martello that came off, not dramatically slower. I'd say it's like a new DHF 3c in RR but with better traction. I don't want too say much more because one 8 mile ride at the greenbelt at 85% pace isn't enough to conclude anything.
    The Mazza does get that tire roar at higher speeds on hardpack (think mudder tires on a jeep) that lets you know it has traction, and is slowing you down.
    But I'll add this, if I rode slabs, hardpack, or packed dirt like Bentonville, I'd go back to the Martello. The Martello is as good or better on the hardpack, but faster.
    At the end of my ride it began to rain. I don't ride in the wet, but on these tires on these rocks it was flat terrifying. Like standing on ice.
    I'm still very eager to test the Edge 22 soft to see if I can get this absolute traction in loose rock but with lower RR.
    At this moment, I'd probably keep buying the Mazza as my primary front tire.

    Regarding the other comments mentioning the Agarro not being a good rear tire compliment, that hasn't been my experience. My experience has been that on these long front center slack bikes they really struggle with front end traction naturally so to be balanced, you always need much more grip up front.

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  147. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by gregnash View Post
    Yeah... not overly keen on the smaller (2.35) Martello as a front tire however it is getting better after a bit of riding (still messing with pressures). And here is something for many to remember, in my experience in the about 10yrs I have been running Vittoria/Geax tires, they really shine in lower pressures. I am finding that the Martello up front doesn't really like more than about 20-24psi in the Tahoe Loam/NorNV High Desert terrain. So just something to note, take your normal pressures you run and drop them 2-5psi when running Vittorias, especially after a break-in period.

    Once I get the Mazza the Martello is going on the rear and that should be a great combo for me. If for whatever reason I don't like it (too small, squirrely) I will do like above and drop a 2.6 Mazza in front and save the Martello for a backup. This 2.3 Ardent is going in the bin when I am done, maybe on the commuter.
    Seems like you and I ride in relatively similar terrain, I'm in CO. I have a 2.4 Mazza that has yet to be mounted but I'm re-thinking my next setup.

    I currently have an Agarro 2.35 on the rear that is now too worn for the dry blown out conditions here. It was great at first, but now I need something with more bite.

    If you were to do it over again, would you go Mazza 2.6 up front? I was originally going to put the Mazza 2.4 on the front and get a Martello 2.35 for the rear. Seeing as you have experience with both, would you get a Mazza 2.6 up front and slap the Mazza 2.4 on the rear? I've never ridden a Martello before fwiw.

  148. #148
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    Should have a first ride tonight on the Mazza/Agarro combo.

    After letting the tires sit at ~40 PSI over night on 30mm internal rims with CushCore XC:

    Mazza 2.4: Casing 2.44 in, Tread 2.32 in (at widest side lug)
    Agarro 2.35: Casing 2.36in, Tread 2.27in (at widest side lug)

    Fascinating stuff, I know. Will report back after I have a ride or two on them

  149. #149
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    I've been running the Mazza (2.4) up front the last couple days in some damp conditions (still Agarro 2.6 rear). I must say in terms of grip and confidence, the Mazza is really good. It gives me complete confidence in the front end, even in slippery rocks/roots/corners. My only gripe is RR/speed - it's clearly slower rolling than the Agarro up front, and on my trails (undulating technical terrain, no extended descents) I simply don't need that much traction up front. Strava says I'm noticeably slower than when I'm on other tires, even though it's fun to be able to toss the bike into any situation and be confident in the grip.

    Depends on your priorities, I suppose.

  150. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by jcmonty View Post
    Should have a first ride tonight on the Mazza/Agarro combo.

    After letting the tires sit at ~40 PSI over night on 30mm internal rims with CushCore XC:

    Mazza 2.4: Casing 2.44 in, Tread 2.32 in (at widest side lug)
    Agarro 2.35: Casing 2.36in, Tread 2.27in (at widest side lug)

    Fascinating stuff, I know. Will report back after I have a ride or two on them
    Are those measurements taken at 40psi?

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    I ended up tearing 2 holes in my rear Agarro, so I just mounted the Mazza 2.4 trail on the rear. First impression is the tread is beefy. It certainly looks like it will be slower rolling than the Agarro but obviously looks can be deceiving. I can absolutely feel the extra grip in braking. I was already looking to replace the Agarro with something more substantial as the trails are getting blown out and loose already this Summer. I still don't know if I'll end up moving the Mazza to the front and mounting a Martello in the rear.

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    Second ride on the Mazza 2.4 as a front tire. It's great. Does pretty much everything you would expect, with no funny business. Casing width is 2.44 (knobs are 2.2x) on a i30 rim at 21psi. So pretty much spot on with an i30 rim.

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  154. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by jasonp22 View Post
    Seems like you and I ride in relatively similar terrain, I'm in CO. I have a 2.4 Mazza that has yet to be mounted but I'm re-thinking my next setup.

    I currently have an Agarro 2.35 on the rear that is now too worn for the dry blown out conditions here. It was great at first, but now I need something with more bite.

    If you were to do it over again, would you go Mazza 2.6 up front? I was originally going to put the Mazza 2.4 on the front and get a Martello 2.35 for the rear. Seeing as you have experience with both, would you get a Mazza 2.6 up front and slap the Mazza 2.4 on the rear? I've never ridden a Martello before fwiw.
    It has been a thought and I have always wondered what larger tires would be like but my go to previously was always the Goma 2.4, which was always about 2.5. So assuming that they were very similar, and in my experience so far they are, then yes I think I would probably go with 2.6 version of it and the Martello or Agarro rear.

    I ride Steamboat Springs pretty much every year and have never had issues with Vittoria tires in the Yampa valley and Park City, UT.

  155. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by gregnash View Post
    It has been a thought and I have always wondered what larger tires would be like but my go to previously was always the Goma 2.4, which was always about 2.5. So assuming that they were very similar, and in my experience so far they are, then yes I think I would probably go with 2.6 version of it and the Martello or Agarro rear.

    I ride Steamboat Springs pretty much every year and have never had issues with Vittoria tires in the Yampa valley and Park City, UT.
    Thanks, I was leaning in that direction too. I had to mount the 2.4 Mazza on the rear to replace a flat but I'll get a 2.6 for the front and 2.35 Martello rear, then keep the 2.4 Mazza to be a F or R backup. I'll report back!

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    I have had 2 rides on 2.4 Mazza front and 2.35 Agarro rear. One was in wet rocky singletrack and the other dry rocky and rooty singletrack. Both rides went well. I do notice the Mazza needs to be leaned to be really appreciated. It did well in all conditions. Previously I had the Agarro front and that did well too but starts to fail in tight turns in dry dusty conditions. But it is a more forgive tire not requiring as much lean. The Mazza made more noise and vibration on the road, but wasn't noticeable on the trail. I watched how I rolled next to other riders and I didn't see any real difference in RR than normal in the trail with there just be some due to the design. I will leave it on the front.

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  157. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by bogeydog View Post
    I have had 2 rides on 2.4 Mazza front and 2.35 Agarro rear. One was in wet rocky singletrack and the other dry rocky and rooty singletrack. Both rides went well. I do notice the Mazza needs to be leaned to be really appreciated. It did well in all conditions. Previously I had the Agarro front and that did well too but starts to fail in tight turns in dry dusty conditions. But it is a more forgive tire not requiring as much lean. The Mazza made more noise and vibration on the road, but wasn't noticeable on the trail. I watched how I rolled next to other riders and I didn't see any real difference in RR than normal in the trail with there just be some due to the design. I will leave it on the front.

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    Funny - I am also at 2 rides with that same combo. My observations:

    Rolling resistance is not noticeably different than my previous Butcher/Eliminator combo on the dirt. It did feel a bit more draggy on the road today ,but that could have been some other factors (headwind).

    Cornering is sharp on the Mazza and just plain grips. It does not seem to have a dead zone like the DHF and is similar to the latest butcher, which i did enjoy. If anything, the Mazza feels a bit more solid in corners. Agarro is very smooth with no discernible transition, very rounded feel, which I think that I like. Hard, bermed corners have not been an issue either. It's a bit more washy in the loose, but any sliding is very controllable.

    Climbing traction (Agarro) is good to great in hardpack. I have had it slip in looser scenarios, not semi-slick like, but it's definitely less traction in those scenarios than the Eliminator or 2.5 aggressor on my other bike.

    Braking traction is good all around, very controllable and not prone to sliding.

    Other notes - the damping of the tires seems better than the Spesh combo I had before (Grid Trail ala Exo+). Caveat being that I am also running a new carbon wheelset, but this wheelset and prior both had Cushcore XC. I do think that the casing is a bit more supple, but even at the same pressure - 22/24 F/R - i am not experiencing any squirming. In fact, I think it may squirm slightly less in hard corners.

    Both rides have been a mix of hardpack, loose rocky dirt, some road, and some rock. Typical Southern California

  158. #158
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    I now got 2.6/2.35 Agarro on my 29 wheels for East Coast trail, so thinking of putting 2.6 Mazza/Martello on my 27+ wheels for chunk & bike park... howís that logic?

  159. #159
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    Seems solid. I really like the 2.4 Mazza as a trail tire for chunk / loose. Bike parks I always want more of everything.

    What's the internal width of those wheels?

  160. #160
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    29s are 30
    27s are 35

  161. #161
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    So I finally have been able to get a good(ish) ride in on the Marza as a front tire. Although it was just a 28 mile trail ride, it offered many opportunities to fully test the front tire's ability to hold a line through many kinds of turns. Should add here that my terrain (Central TX) is flat enough and substantially flow wrecking enough that braking traction in the front is never a problem or consideration for me. The DHRII amazing front braking is lost on me, for example.
    I do wish I had a fresh Martello to compare with as the one I removed was pretty beat (but still performing like 90% by my estimation) and it's still my Gold standard front tire.
    But the Mazza is the highest traction front tire I've ever ridden. Including the Assagai and all the other major players in this assessment. It does this thing at my max lean angle in these conditions where the Mazza sounds like you are ripping a paper grocery bag. The side knobs are literally tearing at the ground. Not exactly rolling along well at that moment but at least I'm not hitting the ground.
    IMO the Mazza is no better for traction in hard pack than the Martello, and quite possibly might be worse. It's certainly more than enough.
    RR? Well it rolls notably slower than the Martello and I can most certainly tell. It it faster than the Assagai however. Maybe half way between those 2 extremes. I always found the Magic Mary 2.35 Addix to be a fast roller but it's been sometime since I've been on one. But I think the MM is a faster roller, but does quite poorly on hardpack where-as the Mazza does very well on hardpack AND softer/ looser ground cover. I feel the Mazza & DHF 3c rolls very similar, but traction is better with the Mazza.
    My opinion is that if you prioritize your Enduro race time, terrain varies beyond just slabs and hardpack, run the Mazza. Like most Vittoria's I think the Mazza offers best in it's class traction vs. RR. It also shows no wear at all for me, which is unusual.
    However if you prefer to maximize your speed everywhere, and you aren't riding: mud, sand, silt, soft loam or leaves constantly, but instead mostly hardpack, the Martello for me has a better traction vs RR equation. The Martello has enough traction for 95% of the turns I do while rolling faster 100% of the time. I've noticed this before but really noticed today that often my ability to lean the bike further is often limited by other factors besides traction, mostly the tree I'd nail with my shoulder on the inside if I leaned harder.
    I've narrowed down my front tires to the point that they are all 3 are really good, I'm having to split hairs.
    I'm torn on which I'll run moving forward, particularly for TX summer months where maintaining flow is physically much harder (104 degrees today) but I think it's the Mazza for 3 simple reasons: 1) it's already on my bike, 2) I don't feel the need to swap it to head to Angel Fire BP or Spider mountain, 3) I injured myself pretty badly just 3 weeks ago by losing the front end. Sometimes some traction insurance is just worth not risking it again.

    - take care

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    Sounds like you should be on the 2.4.

  163. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by cassieno View Post
    Sounds like you should be on the 2.4.
    What's your reasoning?

    34mm ID front wheel. The 2.6 Vittoria's fit it beautifully coming in at 2.48 -2.5" actual width.

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  164. #164
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    You mentioning that it feels slow. I bet a decent amount of that is the extra weight / size of the tire. Dropping down to a 2.4 would give you very similar grip without as much to slow you down. Especially for the terrain you are describing.

    Of course without a back to back comparison who knows. And I am sure you will love it at Angle Fire (which looks pretty brutal).

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    Possibly, but I suspect the 2.4 would be a bit flattened out on my particular rim.
    That said, the Martello I was comparing to is also a 2.6 and 50 grams heavier than the Mazza.
    I will say that the 1143 gram 2.6 Martello taught me that weight, while important overall, actually didn't negatively effect RR at all in that tire. The Martello flies!

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  166. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by Suns_PSD View Post
    Possibly, but I suspect the 2.4 would be a bit flattened out on my particular rim.
    That said, the Martello I was comparing to is also a 2.6 and 50 grams heavier than the Mazza.
    I will say that the 1143 gram 2.6 Martello taught me that weight, while important overall, actually didn't negatively effect RR at all in that tire. The Martello flies!

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  167. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by Suns_PSD View Post
    What's your reasoning?

    34mm ID front wheel. The 2.6 Vittoria's fit it beautifully coming in at 2.48 -2.5" actual width.

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    Is this 34mm internal or external? I run the Mazza 2.4 on a 29mm internal (so 35mm external) and think it performs beautifully.

    I am finding that she does like the lower pressures vs. the martello and the RR doesn't seem to be impacted.

  168. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by gregnash View Post
    Is this 34mm internal or external? I run the Mazza 2.4 on a 29mm internal (so 35mm external) and think it performs beautifully.

    I am finding that she does like the lower pressures vs. the martello and the RR doesn't seem to be impacted.
    34mm internal dimension.

    I'm very happy with the fit and sizing of the 2.6 in this case.

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    Liking the Mazza/Agarro combo more and more. The Agarro seems to hold better than it looks even in the loose.

    PR'd a run today by 10 seconds (it's ~ 2:30 long). First time out here on this combo. Trail wasn't running particularly fast either - ~14% grade, loose and powdery this time of the year.

    https://youtu.be/9grN8fazMIU

  170. #170
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    Always looking for trying new tires.. and .

    Someone can give me the real measures at riding pressure(after some stretching) of both widest knobs and carcass:

    Mazza 29x2.4
    Agarro 29x2.35
    on 30mm internal rims.
    Do the 2.4 Vittoria have a good profile on 30mm rims or too squared?

    I'm actually on 2.4 Kenda Pinner/Helldiver and DHR/Rekon, and maybe i will try also Vittoria on my Trail/AM bike (really liked when i switch to Vittoria Barzo on my first xc bike)

    Thanks a lot

  171. #171
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    30mm internal rim width, 25psi/1.7bar, two Agarro 29*2.35 TNT, after apr. 5 rides.
    Both measure 60.5mm carcass, 59mm knobs

    Same for two Martello I have.

    All 4 tires quite round on 30mm internal width.
    Compared to Hellkat 2.4 ATC and AEC, Conti Kaiser Projekt 2.4 (all three a bit more sqare), Maxxis DHRII 2.4 Exo 3C, , DHF 2.5 Exo, Butcher Grid 2.6, Eliminator Grid 2.6 (those four are a lot more square). All on same rim.

  172. #172
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    Looks like I am going to have to try one of these next time I need some more tires.

  173. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by zambo78 View Post
    Always looking for trying new tires.. and .

    Someone can give me the real measures at riding pressure(after some stretching) of both widest knobs and carcass:

    Mazza 29x2.4
    Agarro 29x2.35
    on 30mm internal rims.
    Do the 2.4 Vittoria have a good profile on 30mm rims or too squared?

    I'm actually on 2.4 Kenda Pinner/Helldiver and DHR/Rekon, and maybe i will try also Vittoria on my Trail/AM bike (really liked when i switch to Vittoria Barzo on my first xc bike)

    Thanks a lot
    How do you like the pinner?


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  174. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by zambo78 View Post
    Always looking for trying new tires.. and .

    Someone can give me the real measures at riding pressure(after some stretching) of both widest knobs and carcass:

    Mazza 29x2.4
    Agarro 29x2.35
    on 30mm internal rims.
    Do the 2.4 Vittoria have a good profile on 30mm rims or too squared?

    I'm actually on 2.4 Kenda Pinner/Helldiver and DHR/Rekon, and maybe i will try also Vittoria on my Trail/AM bike (really liked when i switch to Vittoria Barzo on my first xc bike)

    Thanks a lot
    Quote Originally Posted by cassieno View Post
    Second ride on the Mazza 2.4 as a front tire. It's great. Does pretty much everything you would expect, with no funny business. Casing width is 2.44 (knobs are 2.2x) on a i30 rim at 21psi. So pretty much spot on with an i30 rim.
    Agarro is pretty much the same. Casing width is pretty much 2.35 and knobs are at 2.2x.

    Look at the pictures Gregnash and I posted in this thread and in the Agarro thread for the profile on i29 and i30 rims.

  175. #175
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    Quote Originally Posted by zambo78 View Post
    Always looking for trying new tires.. and .

    Someone can give me the real measures at riding pressure(after some stretching) of both widest knobs and carcass:

    Mazza 29x2.4
    Agarro 29x2.35
    on 30mm internal rims.
    Do the 2.4 Vittoria have a good profile on 30mm rims or too squared?

    I'm actually on 2.4 Kenda Pinner/Helldiver and DHR/Rekon, and maybe i will try also Vittoria on my Trail/AM bike (really liked when i switch to Vittoria Barzo on my first xc bike)

    Thanks a lot
    How do you like the pinner? Any comparo's to the hellcat or others?

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  176. #176
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    Quote Originally Posted by zambo78 View Post
    Always looking for trying new tires.. and .

    Someone can give me the real measures at riding pressure(after some stretching) of both widest knobs and carcass:

    Mazza 29x2.4
    Agarro 29x2.35
    on 30mm internal rims.
    Do the 2.4 Vittoria have a good profile on 30mm rims or too squared?

    I'm actually on 2.4 Kenda Pinner/Helldiver and DHR/Rekon, and maybe i will try also Vittoria on my Trail/AM bike (really liked when i switch to Vittoria Barzo on my first xc bike)

    Thanks a lot
    Posted this above:

    After letting the tires sit at ~40 PSI over night on 30mm internal rims with CushCore XC:

    Mazza 2.4: Casing 2.44 in, Tread 2.32 in (at widest side lug)
    Agarro 2.35: Casing 2.36in, Tread 2.27in (at widest side lug)

    Tire is more rounded than my previous 2.3 Butcher (though Butcher was a tad wider on the tread).

  177. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by jcmonty View Post
    Posted this above:

    After letting the tires sit at ~40 PSI over night on 30mm internal rims with CushCore XC:

    Mazza 2.4: Casing 2.44 in, Tread 2.32 in (at widest side lug)
    Agarro 2.35: Casing 2.36in, Tread 2.27in (at widest side lug)
    Shouldn't the knobs be wider than the casing? Seems the rim is too wide for the tire (which is absurd for a "new" 2.4" tire). The last two Specialized Butcher's I've had were like this as well.
    I like 'em long, low, slack and playful

  178. #178
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    Quote Originally Posted by 06HokieMTB View Post
    Shouldn't the knobs be wider than the casing? Seems the rim is too wide for the tire (which is absurd for a "new" 2.4" tire). The last two Specialized Butcher's I've had were like this as well.
    Not necessarily, depends on the tire.

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  179. #179
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    Quote Originally Posted by WHALENARD View Post
    How do you like the pinner? Any comparo's to the hellcat or others?

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    I like the Pinner for how it ride but not 100% happy.
    So i think the Mazza could be as good as the pinner(similiar design) but with less downsides.

    The pinner corner very good, no perceptible transition zone, rails well and give a good feeling when leaning.
    For a sub 2.4 tire, for the lightest trail casing, 1050gr. is too much for me.
    The ATC casing is not the same as the other atc i have. (pinner has stronger casing)
    Tire width: they say casing is wider, 62mm on 30mm rims.. My experience is different... after strenching many days at maximu pressure, and 5/6 rides, it's 59/60mm at casing and 58/59 widest knobs... someone say it's 62mm on 30mm rims... not mine

    The first tire has a strange big wobble, and the replacement tire has the same wobble but smaller. I keep the second tire for half the price. I had two Hellkat's AEC and both were replaced for wobble. I have also Hellkat ATC, Nevegal2 ATC, Helldiver ATC, Booster STC, spin perfectly round!
    I like kenda tires, lot of potential, i try many of them... but production seem too variable....

    Hope Vittoria is ok in terms of production consistency

  180. #180
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    Quote Originally Posted by jcmonty View Post
    Posted this above:

    After letting the tires sit at ~40 PSI over night on 30mm internal rims with CushCore XC:

    Mazza 2.4: Casing 2.44 in, Tread 2.32 in (at widest side lug)
    Agarro 2.35: Casing 2.36in, Tread 2.27in (at widest side lug)

    Tire is more rounded than my previous 2.3 Butcher (though Butcher was a tad wider on the tread).
    Thank you.
    The only thing that i don't understand is that if these measures are at 40psi, or at normal riding pressure with tire already used and strechted?

  181. #181
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    Where I ride it's really rocky with slate, so tyre cuts are always a risk.

    I'm new to Vittoria tyres, how does the casing compare to Maxxis EXO and double down casings?

  182. #182
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    Depends on the model Vittoria model. But the Mazza seems to be about the same weight as a DHF Maxxis Exo casing with significantly more durable sidewalls.

    There is a layer of something in the sidewalls that let's you run a lot lower pressure than a comparative Maxxis Exo (i.e. DHF to Mazza). I haven't ridden DD casings.

  183. #183
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    Quote Originally Posted by zambo78 View Post
    Thank you.
    The only thing that i don't understand is that if these measures are at 40psi, or at normal riding pressure with tire already used and strechted?
    Those are normal ridding pressures. Those are pretty much what my tires (Mazz 2.4 / Agarro 2.35) measure at normal riding pressure without Cushcore XC in the i30 rims.

  184. #184
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    Thanks for sharing your experience... Maybe it's already answered... how was you experience DHF 2.5 EXO vs Vittoria Mazza 2.4?

  185. #185
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    Anyone know where you can find a 29x2.4 trail in stock?

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  186. #186
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    Pretty similar. The 2.4 Mazza doesn't have that dead zone a 2.5 DHF does. And is 100g lighter.

    The 2.6 Mazza is more of a direct comparison to the 2.5 DHF.

    Quote Originally Posted by WHALENARD View Post
    Anyone know where you can find a 29x2.4 trail in stock?

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  187. #187
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    Quote Originally Posted by cassieno View Post
    Pretty similar. The 2.4 Mazza doesn't have that dead zone a 2.5 DHF does. And is 100g lighter.

    The 2.6 Mazza is more of a direct comparison to the 2.5 DHF.



    Competitive cyclist has them.
    As it seem that a 2.4 Mazza on 30mm internal rims, have still a more "roundish" profile instead other good front tires...

    From what have you seen, assuming you have only 30mm rims available, would you still go Mazza 2.6(maybe 2.5 as it's approx. 63mm wide), or will it be too round and in the end less effective than a 2.4 with the correct profile?
    The weight difference is very small (and my actual 2.4 Pinner still weight 1050gr. )

  188. #188
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    I went 2.4 Mazza because I wanted an under 1000g front tire that was more than a 2.3 DHF for my local trails. The internal width of my rims was not a consideration. I have ran 2.3-2.6 on my i30 rims and wouldn't hesitate to get a 2.6 if I was looking for something burlier than a 2.4.

    To my eyes the tires don't look that round on i30 rims (look at my and Gregnash's pictures and you can make your own call).

    How you prefer your tire profile is super dependent on where and how you ride.

    For example - WTB trail boss rear - on our local trails it's fine. The speeds and riding is such that you stay on the knobs. Take that tire to Bellingham where the speeds are a lot faster and you start falling off the side knobs and losing the rear. It worked fine(ish) nearby but was pretty terrible in other places.

    My tails are loose over hard, very few fall lines, and pretty much no berms. But the climbs are steep and you lose elevation very quickly.

  189. #189
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    We the people ...

    Currently on DhF 29 x 2.3 3C on 25mm internal rim. Love the DhF, just always wished it was a little wider. (Used to run old DhF 2.5 before WT casings when the actual size was 2.35). So looking for that sweet spot front tire. Is this it? Is it ending up much wider than a DhF 2.3?

    So here's my current short list:
    1. Mazza trail 2.4
    2. Michelin Wild Enduro 2.4 front
    3. Conti Der Kaiser 2.4

    I'd love to hear from anyone who's been on the Mazza and the Michelin WEF - rolling resistance, cornering, etc.

    Anyone else still running less than 30mm internal rims ; )
    Any tire profile pics?

    Thanks!

  190. #190
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    As others have mentioned - by this time of year the CO Front Range gets super blown-out and sketchy. Itís time for me to up my tire game and Mazza looks great.

    Iím looking at 2.4 Mazza / 2.35 Martello combo:

    Up Front, Iíve been riding a Tiaga Edge22 front since January, and now have >500 miles on it. Much thanks to SUNS for this, as he made an introduction to me for their beta tester program. (I def still owe my Ďrealí review on it!!)

    Honestly, I consider the E22 a true industry Ďbreakthroughí in that it overcomes typical trade-offs of Rolling Resistance vs. Traction. While, yes, the interesting tread design does increase the cornering ability, the real win is that the lack of middle know prevents certain kinds of deformation which parasitically suck energy out of the ride. Itís a very, very cool innovation!

    On hardback, rocks, perfect-dirt, kitty litter, and mild loose-over-hard, the E22 unbelievable. Iíve yet to find its... uh... Edge. But after a while I was able to find the tireís Achilles heel: when things get deep and loose, it starts to break away. Itís just not deep enough tread (and potentially maybe something about the channel clearing is possible, too.) Even moderate gravel and it looses its grip - sometimes in a not graceful way. Some trips in Nederland and Buff Creek were pretty enlightening about this. And now that things are getting blown-out here in CO, Iím thinking itís at its limit on more and more trails. So, Iíve concluded that the E22 is an unbeatable early season, light-duty or hardpack Trail tire... but has limits.

    So my Front strategy was choosing between the 2.4 Mazza and 2.6 Martello... I guessed that theyíd have (mostly?) similar rolling resistance - but the 2.4 Mazza could dig deeper down into the sketchy loose stuff (while being a little lighter).

    In back, Iíve been on the 2.3 Agarro for ~3 months, and prior to that 3~4 on a 2.4 Dissector. The Agarro was - mostly - an upgrade in our climate, but not always. Compound and construction are vastly superior to Maxxis, but the CO Front Range has lots of steeps up&down, and when loose the Agarro tends to break traction easily. (Sometimes the Dissector was a win here, honestly, and could rail corners a little harder.) With seasonal conditions getting worse now itís often been all-over-the-place... time for me to get a locked-in feeling.

    So, will start w/ the 2.35 Martello rear... Iím guessing this should be a significant upgrade in the rear - and hopefully wont need to put a Mazza in the rear!

    Will let yíall know what I find out!

  191. #191
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    Quote Originally Posted by laserjockrock View Post
    Iím looking at 2.4 Mazza / 2.35 Martello combo:
    I am also want to try Mazza-Martello combo. Did you go with Trail or Enduro casing?

  192. #192
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    Quote Originally Posted by laserjockrock View Post
    As others have mentioned - by this time of year the CO Front Range gets super blown-out and sketchy. Itís time for me to up my tire game and Mazza looks great.

    Iím looking at 2.4 Mazza / 2.35 Martello combo:

    Up Front, Iíve been riding a Tiaga Edge22 front since January, and now have >500 miles on it. Much thanks to SUNS for this, as he made an introduction to me for their beta tester program. (I def still owe my Ďrealí review on it!!)
    ...

    So my Front strategy was choosing between the 2.4 Mazza and 2.6 Martello... I guessed that theyíd have (mostly?) similar rolling resistance - but the 2.4 Mazza could dig deeper down into the sketchy loose stuff (while being a little lighter).

    ...

    So, will start w/ the 2.35 Martello rear... Iím guessing this should be a significant upgrade in the rear - and hopefully wont need to put a Mazza in the rear!

    Will let yíall know what I find out!
    Fellow front range rider here. I would go with the 2.4 Mazza upfront. It's lighter and the transition gap will allow those edge nobs to dig in and help prevent washouts (similar to DHF). I've ridden the 2.6 Martello and while a great tire, I just didn't like it in loose conditions we have here, as it tended to break loose suddenly.

  193. #193
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    Yes, the Mazza is going to perform better when loose, the Martello better when hardpack and slabs.
    The Martello definitely is a faster tire, as fast as the E22. The Mazza rolls like a DHF 2.5 3c, but with Assagai traction in the loose.
    The Tioga Edge 22 in trail compound worked really well for me in the beginning, but for really pushing it, I wanted a softer compound. It also seemed to fall off notably with some miles. As of now, it's an awesome trail tire. But for full on Enduro like conditions I'm eagerly awaiting the softer version.
    I'll say this: I've narrowed down my front tire choices to the Mazza, the Martello, or the E22 soft. Ultimately I'll probablly be really happy with any of them but they all might have terrain they do their best in.
    On a long hot ride 2 weekends ago I was missing my Martello honestly, cause I could feel the drag of my Mazza. Then I began to push the front harder and harder and I could tell it was definitely hooking better than the Martello I just removed. But then the Martello was heavily worn so that was some of the traction difference.
    I'd say the E22 hard and Martello have nearly identical traction and rolling resistance when brand new, but the E22 fell off whereas the Martello maintained it's traction for a really long time even when notably worn.
    But any trail riders reading this have to take into account the way I use my tires can be different than their needs. I'm not the fastest rider but typically my fronts are done in 200 miles and my rears in maybe 150 miles.
    If your tires last a season or 2, you definitely don't need Mazza traction.


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  194. #194
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mebaru View Post
    I am also want to try Mazza-Martello combo. Did you go with Trail or Enduro casing?
    Ah! This is just for everyday 'Trail riding' here in the Front Range... so just got the Trail casings. Honestly, Vittoria tire construction hits-above-its-weight b/c of their great sidewall design and compound toughness - so I think that the Trail should be enough for >90% of what I do.


    Quote Originally Posted by ridetheridge View Post
    Fellow front range rider here. I would go with the 2.4 Mazza upfront. It's lighter and the transition gap will allow those edge nobs to dig in and help prevent washouts (similar to DHF). I've ridden the 2.6 Martello and while a great tire, I just didn't like it in loose conditions we have here, as it tended to break loose suddenly.
    Thx for this! Yeah, that was my hunch, too, but good to hear the *actual* feedback on the 2.6 Martello breaking loose on our terrain. At my age, I'm really focussing on having less faceplants.

  195. #195
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    Quote Originally Posted by Suns_PSD View Post
    The Martello definitely is a faster tire, as fast as the E22. The Mazza rolls like a DHF 2.5 3c, but with Assagai traction in the loose.
    The Tioga Edge 22 in trail compound worked really well for me in the beginning, but for really pushing it, I wanted a softer compound. It also seemed to fall off notably with some miles. As of now, it's an awesome trail tire. But for full on Enduro like conditions I'm eagerly awaiting the softer version.
    I'll say this: I've narrowed down my front tire choices to the Mazza, the Martello, or the E22 soft. Ultimately I'll probablly be really happy with any of them but they all might have terrain they do their best in.
    On a long hot ride 2 weekends ago I was missing my Martello honestly, cause I could feel the drag of my Mazza. Then I began to push the front harder and harder and I could tell it was definitely hooking better than the Martello I just removed. But then the Martello was heavily worn so that was some of the traction difference.
    I'd say the E22 hard and Martello have nearly identical traction and rolling resistance when brand new, but the E22 fell off whereas the Martello maintained it's traction for a really long time even when notably worn.
    Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk
    From my reading of your posts, it seems like your TX terrain is harder/rockier, thus puts more emphasis on better (sticky) compound. Also wonder what kinds of elevation gain/steeps you have... the Agarro really runs out of steam when things get billy-goat steep (which we have in most every ride).

    I'm now starting to look at it this way: my bike (Ripmo2) is intended to be a "quiver of one" - but I think to really pull this off I want to design around two sets of wheels/tires.

    My faster/lighter/XC/early-season set is looking like E22/2.3Agarro, and my heavy-duty/late-season set (hopefully) 2.4 Mazza/2.35 Martello. If

    I took a trip to Moab, I'd do 2.6 Agarro F/R and have a BLAST on slickrock trail! Enchilada/porcupine Mazza/Martello - most everything else, E22/Agarro could be good enough.

    I'm now a total Vittoria convert - industry-leading tech. Still, I'd be *shocked* if Martello really is faster than E22, just b/c the physics is so different between them. Once I get another wheel set I'll try an A/B compare-o.

    Isn't the new E22 out? (I've seen other reviews start to pop up.). Hopefully we can get Vittoria to copy their own E22 variant - best of every world! (...actually, hopefully Tioga patented the F out of the E22 - they deserve it for the killer innovation!)

  196. #196
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    Yeah, I hope Vittoria at least licenses the E22 design. I want four rows of Morsa-like knobs with a 4C compound, 2.5 TNT casing. Would be so killer.

    laserjockrock, you sound well on your way to becoming a certified tire enthusiast.

  197. #197
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    Quote Originally Posted by laserjockrock View Post
    From my reading of your posts, it seems like your TX terrain is harder/rockier, thus puts more emphasis on better (sticky) compound. Also wonder what kinds of elevation gain/steeps you have... the Agarro really runs out of steam when things get billy-goat steep (which we have in most every ride).

    I'm now starting to look at it this way: my bike (Ripmo2) is intended to be a "quiver of one" - but I think to really pull this off I want to design around two sets of wheels/tires.

    My faster/lighter/XC/early-season set is looking like E22/2.3Agarro, and my heavy-duty/late-season set (hopefully) 2.4 Mazza/2.35 Martello. If

    I took a trip to Moab, I'd do 2.6 Agarro F/R and have a BLAST on slickrock trail! Enchilada/porcupine Mazza/Martello - most everything else, E22/Agarro could be good enough.

    I'm now a total Vittoria convert - industry-leading tech. Still, I'd be *shocked* if Martello really is faster than E22, just b/c the physics is so different between them. Once I get another wheel set I'll try an A/B compare-o.

    Isn't the new E22 out? (I've seen other reviews start to pop up.). Hopefully we can get Vittoria to copy their own E22 variant - best of every world! (...actually, hopefully Tioga patented the F out of the E22 - they deserve it for the killer innovation!)
    No doubt that all of our preferences are shaped by, among many other things, our local terrain and even our bike.
    One thing I noticed right away with my Foxy 29 is that it could get away with way less rear tire and still climb insanely steep loose inclines while maintaining traction, that would have required a huge knobby tire to accomplish the same climb on my previous SB5.5.
    Maybe this is just a result of LLS geo and nothing more? Or maybe the rear suspension just works better?
    We don't have mountains, but we have the TX Hill Country. It is steep, rough, and ledgey if you know where to look. However we rarely have the pleasure of a sustained descent. To top it off, currently it's triple digits everyday but more stifling than the temps is the high humidity. So most sane people are riding the much easier routes for the summer season, including me. Still, plenty of opportunities to test the limits of turning traction.

    And you really should test the 2.6 Martello if you have a wide front rim and some hard pack. That was the first time I was truly blown away by a tire's overall performance with seemingly no shortcomings.

    Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

  198. #198
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    Quote Originally Posted by Suns_PSD View Post
    Yes, the Mazza is going to perform better when loose, the Martello better when hardpack and slabs.
    Thanks. I'm going to try Mazza / Martello combo for local rough enduro/dh trails. Can't find Martello 29x2.6 in enduro casing - does it actually exists? Or even Mazza / Mazza with enduro in rear for some serious downhill days.

    For more flow-like trails I would like to try Martello front but what Vittoria tire I should boot on rear? Currently riding Dissector 2.6 / Aggressor 2.5 but really interested in trying something new.

  199. #199
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    So I am running the Mazza/Martello setup and have a good dozen rides on the combo and love it.
    Have ridden in the Carson City High Desert Terrain and had a second good long ride in Lake Tahoe Loam. The setup performs beautifully in both.

    These tires are definitely more like the old school versions that like their pressures on the lower side. While I normally run my pressures in the mid-20s, but they are definitely liking the lower psi range. RR at that point isn't a noticeable change from mid to high 20s.

  200. #200
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    Looks like vittoria was just sold to a private equity, impending quality decrease incoming...


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