Ugh!!! Tubeless woes!- Mtbr.com
Results 1 to 49 of 49
  1. #1
    mtbr member
    Reputation: RacerLex's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    313

    Bonking ... not feelin' well Ugh!!! Tubeless woes!

    Man this is frustrating. Iím chasing complete overnight tire deflation on two different wheels. Iíve setup tubeless several times but now Iím doubting if Iím doing this simple task correctly (Iíve changed tape and valves). Iím going to make one more attempt before throwing in the towel and paying a LBS. Which leads me to the question:

    How much air pressure do you lose overnight on your tubeless wheels?

  2. #2
    mtbr member
    Reputation: WHALENARD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    3,952
    You're using sealant?
    How much psi you lose will depend on many factors. A 29'r 2.4 that's already been set up and sealed may lose 0-3psi from 25psi overnight for me.
    It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society.

  3. #3
    Meatbomb
    Reputation: Phillbo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    6,567
    Overnight- none that i can measure.

    Mine will slowly leak down over a couple weeks to the point that the squeeze test dictates a couple pumps.

  4. #4
    mtbr member
    Reputation: RacerLex's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    313
    Quote Originally Posted by WHALENARD View Post
    You're using sealant?
    Yup, Stanís sealant. But I expect it to hold air without sealant.

    Quote Originally Posted by Phillbo View Post
    Overnight- none that i can measure.
    This is what Iím hoping for myself. I hate having to add air daily, or even once a week!

  5. #5
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    1,742
    If your tires are new, losing air the first few rides is common (from my experience). It seems that riding new tires seats the seals.

  6. #6
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Heist30's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Posts
    276
    Quote Originally Posted by RacerLex View Post
    Yup, Stanís sealant. But I expect it to hold air without sealant.


    This is what Iím hoping for myself. I hate having to add air daily, or even once a week!
    I agree... The tire may be the issue as well. The Vittoriaís Iíve mounted have always held full psi for days without sealant whereas Maxxis did not and weeped sealant for quite a while.

  7. #7
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2019
    Posts
    227
    Mine hold air, no sealant for a week, before I even add sealant. Mine only weap after hitting a few thorns waiting for the sealant to do its job. YOU need to get some soapy water and find out where the leak is coming from and fix it.

  8. #8
    mtbr member
    Reputation: RacerLex's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    313
    Failed to mention itís two different tires, both 700x40c. Bontrager GR1 and Maxxis Re-fuse.

  9. #9
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    505
    Capt Obvious here but did you put the inflated tires in a tub of water to see if the air is coming from the bead, nipples, or sidewalls?

  10. #10
    mtbr member
    Reputation: RacerLex's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    313
    Quote Originally Posted by TheBaldBlur View Post
    Capt Obvious here but did you put the inflated tires in a tub of water to see if the air is coming from the bead, nipples, or sidewalls?
    Doíh!!! After all these years of tubeless Iíd forgotten the basic test when we were all using tubes! Going to do this tonight!

  11. #11
    mtbr member
    Reputation: 006_007's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    9,138
    Water test is a good one for sure.

    With new tape I always put a tube in and let it sit for a few days before completing the tubless portion. Kind of fun going for an oldschool ride on tubes.

    Once the tubes seat the tape nicely I find they hold air pretty damn good (need air every few weeks)

  12. #12
    mtbr member
    Reputation: RacerLex's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    313
    Quote Originally Posted by 006_007 View Post
    Water test is a good one for sure.

    With new tape I always put a tube in and let it sit for a few days before completing the tubless portion.
    I havenít done this in the past but Iím going to take this route after the water test!

  13. #13
    EAT MORE GRIME
    Reputation: 127.0.0.1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    4,642
    got a tub ? fill with water, stick wheel in tub with valve down, check for bubbles.

    rotate wheel around and wait...repeat, until you find where air is leaking
    "Put your seatbelt back on or get out and sit in the middle of that circle of death." - Johnny Scoot

  14. #14
    mtbr member
    Reputation: J.B. Weld's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    12,349
    New tire setups often lose significant pressure overnight ime, no big deal unless it continues for more than a day or two.
    I brake for stinkbugs

  15. #15
    mtbr member
    Reputation: J.B. Weld's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    12,349
    Submersion test may or may not be useful, often where the leak is coming from doesn't directly correlate with the problem.
    I brake for stinkbugs

  16. #16
    mtbr member
    Reputation: chrisx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    620
    notice 1:02
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G58eD5dEh-8

    Put shampo in a container with water. Stir well. Use the bubbles to search for leaks.

    4:08 not skip this step.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYvDlOqdmSI

    To make the yellow tape stick to the rim better, did you scuff and clean the inner rim before, (green scotch brite works for scuffing), installing the tubeless tape?

    throwing in the towel and paying a LBS.
    NO
    Not give up. The learning curve is high. Oh so very worth the trouble.
    Ask the lbs to teach you how to be self sufficient perhapsŅ

    Stan has videos to help you figue it out.
    https://www.notubes.com/help?p=2

    My tire holds air for a month or two

  17. #17
    mtbr member
    Reputation: MSU Alum's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    4,091
    I'm running Maxxis tires on a 27 mm inner width 29" rims, so I have no idea how that translates to a 700x40.
    I usually mount the Maxxis (Aggressor, DHRII, DHF, Rekons are what I've mounted) or Schwalbe (Nobby Nic) without sealant to just stretch them out before I add sealant. I don't think I've ever lost more than a couple PSI, down from 40 or so, over a 2 or 3 day period. That's without sealant. I add sealant in for the rides, but that's to seal holes, not hold air for those particular tires. Maybe your tires are just much more porous.

  18. #18
    mtbr member
    Reputation: RacerLex's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    313
    Well definitely saw some bubbles in the tub! One wheel had bubbles sourcing from the valve tip, the other wheel from the base of the valve. Also saw some bubbles emerge from spokes and tiny bubbles form around the bead. So looks like more tape and new valves are in order!

    Iím seriously going to be taking my time and following the recommendations you guys have posted. I think I got cocky with past results and rushed my last couple of tape jobs. Wish me luck!

  19. #19
    mtbr member
    Reputation: chrisx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    620
    Quote Originally Posted by RacerLex View Post
    Wish me luck!
    A good education is better than luck.

    Pay the lbs once or twice a year
    or
    learn the hard way and be set for life.

    The tape sticks better if the rim is perfectly clean.
    The tape stays longer if you scuff the rim, scratch it before you put the tape on.

    Well worth the trouble.

  20. #20
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Posts
    1,918
    Quote Originally Posted by RacerLex View Post
    Man this is frustrating. Iím chasing complete overnight tire deflation on two different wheels. Iíve setup tubeless several times but now Iím doubting if Iím doing this simple task correctly (Iíve changed tape and valves). Iím going to make one more attempt before throwing in the towel and paying a LBS. Which leads me to the question:

    How much air pressure do you lose overnight on your tubeless wheels?
    I'd suggest
    1) making sure you have the stem seated well and secured
    2) changing the valve stem
    If that doesn't work, redo the tape (just because it is easy to test the valve without removing and reinstalling the tape).

    The leak around the valve means you either have a poor seal around the valve stem or the tape is leaking (air will escape the largest hole which is the valve hole).

    I have been tubeless for only about 3.5 years now. I've only changed front tire 2x and the rear tire 3 times.

    I started with Gorilla tape for about a year until the tires were worn down -at replacement time I decided to remove the Gorilla and replace with Stans tape.

    I have not once had to use a tube to go tubeless to press the tape into place. I'd really love to find out how much pressure is exerted onto every square mm of tape with a tube. I don't 'feel' that a tube applies pressure greater than solid pressure from the thumbs during installation. Or wiping the tape with a rag which slides more easily than skin while applying force. The only place that needs to be well adhered is around the ledge. Inside the well should be done properly but it's not like a tiny little bubble will allow air to pass though a spoke hole.
    Not saying it isn't necessary, but so far I have not had to go through these extra and time consuming efforts.

    Tubeless will leak, more noticeable when new tires are installed.
    I generally set it up tubeless without sealant just to make sure I don't have any crazy leaks. Then install sealant once I know life is good.

    I will add extra sealant to new tires as it requires more sealant to coat the inside of the tire and fill any of the porosity that is causing leaks. A thinner sidewall tends to leak more, in my experiences with Specialized Control casings.

    My 2nd bike was taped with Stans tape before I started, however I had to replace a damaged tire and it doesn't leak.

    I don't leak enough air in a day or 2 to warrant air but I will add air each weekend if i hadn't ridden through the week.

    If you do not wish to add air weekly, you should stick with tubes.
    The Maxxis tires I have seem to hold air longer than the Specialized tires (Grid) installed on another bike. Noticeable, but they leak nonetheless.

    Good luck!

  21. #21
    mtbr member
    Reputation: One Pivot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    8,697
    If you think about it, you don't really even need the tape to stick to the rim. At all. It only needs to stick to itself.

    The tape seals against the tire directly forming a "tube", isolating the tire bead and tape from the actual rim.

    Rim adhesion helps keep the tape in place when mounting, which is helpful... But that's not preventing air leaks.

    I think jb had the right answer. It's not reasonable to expect tires specifically designed to *need* sealant to hold air without it. That doesn't indicate a problem.

    The sealant needs to seal up the pores. It's often not the tape.

  22. #22
    mtbr member
    Reputation: austink26's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Posts
    122
    I would definitely take everything off, give the rim a good clean, retape with fresh tape when dry, then put a tube in the tire and pump it up harder than your run tubless (like 45psi) and leave it at least overnight if not longer.

    In my experience the tube method produces a much better/cleaner seal than just pushing with your thumb etc. Just think that your thumb likely takes up less than 1 square inch and then think how heavy a 45lb plate feels. The tube is effectively applying that pressure evenly for much longer than you could push.

    In the 5+ years of running tubeless on 8 different bikes, the only time I had issues was when I rushed a job and just tried pushing it down with my fingers and not using a tube. I had the same experience as you with bubbles coming from the stem and random spokes. It would go flat after a few days even with sealant. A complete redo using the tube method and it holds air without sealant no problem.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  23. #23
    mtbr member
    Reputation: chrisx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    620
    Do not over tighten the stem. Finger tight only.

    Might have to replace the valve core.

    Good to learn all this at home and not on the side of a trail 28 miles from the road.

  24. #24
    mtbr member
    Reputation: sturge's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    1,191
    Quote Originally Posted by One Pivot View Post
    If you think about it, you don't really even need the tape to stick to the rim. At all. It only needs to stick to itself.

    The tape seals against the tire directly forming a "tube", isolating the tire bead and tape from the actual rim.

    Rim adhesion helps keep the tape in place when mounting, which is helpful... But that's not preventing air leaks.
    I don't agree with this in all cases. Any tape job I've ever done covers spoke holes in the center portion of the rim but does not extend all the way to where the tire beads are. There is a gab between the edge of the tape and both beads. So the tape is NOT forming a 'tube' and having a very clean rim (I use isopropyl alcohol after cleaning) and good application of tape to ensure adhesion is very important to ensure you seal all spoke holes.

    Throwing a tube in overnight is a good practice to get new tires and new tape job sealed.
    12 Santa Cruz Heckler
    18 Kona Process 153 AL/DL (27.5)...:thumbsup:

  25. #25
    Hitching a ride
    Reputation: Schulze's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    3,184
    If your tape stops before the bead of the tire, you're risking having to re-tape every time you change the tire because the bead is going to push the tape into the center. Sure, it works when sealant is fresh, but let it dry for a few weeks, form a nice sticky bond, and then try changing tires. Best practice is to tape bead to bead.

  26. #26
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    2,985
    Quote Originally Posted by Schulze View Post
    If your tape stops before the bead of the tire, you're risking having to re-tape every time you change the tire because the bead is going to push the tape into the center. Sure, it works when sealant is fresh, but let it dry for a few weeks, form a nice sticky bond, and then try changing tires. Best practice is to tape bead to bead.
    I had this experience before but went the other direction. I now just use the narrow strapping tape, I think it's 12mm. It goes only in the channel of the rim. It's harder to get right because you have to hit spoke holes just right with only a couple mm of tape other side. Other than that annoyance on install it works great.

    Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk

  27. #27
    Wanna ride bikes?
    Reputation: *OneSpeed*'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    6,900
    All of this diagnosing and setup recommendations, and it's still not clear if the OP has ridden the bike as opposed to just setting them up in the garage and letting it sit.

    The best thing you can do after a new tubeless setup is go ride it and get the sealant moving around. Did you do this?

    The sealant can't do it's job if it doesn't hit all the parts of the tire that need sealing. The setup may have been just fine all along, aside from possibly one valve core that either needed tightening or replacing.
    Rigid SS 29er
    SS 29+
    Fat Lefty
    SS cyclocross
    Full Sus 29er (Yuck)

    Stop asking how much it weighs and just go ride it.

  28. #28
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    8,861
    Quote Originally Posted by RacerLex View Post
    Well definitely saw some bubbles in the tub! One wheel had bubbles sourcing from the valve tip, the other wheel from the base of the valve. Also saw some bubbles emerge from spokes and tiny bubbles form around the bead. So looks like more tape and new valves are in order!

    Iím seriously going to be taking my time and following the recommendations you guys have posted. I think I got cocky with past results and rushed my last couple of tape jobs. Wish me luck!
    You are going to have pockets of air release from the wheel when initially submerged. The air is from the double walled rim and will release from the spoke nipple holes and the valve.

  29. #29
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    8,861
    How much air are you losing overnight? I wouldn't even wouldn't even worry about air loss until the bike is ridden. Report back after your first ride.

  30. #30
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Posts
    1,918
    Okay fine.
    Sounds like the consensus here is that the OP MUST retape and MUST install a tube.

    I want to see a transparent rim with a tube installed. I feel that in no way is the tube applying enough positive, solid force onto the tape.

    There is absolutely no reason the tape needs to be 100% stuck to the rim. If air escapes around the edge of the tape it can seep into the air bubble formed and weep from a spoke hole.
    All things have to be exactly wrong for air to seep past the seal of the ledge of the rim near the bead for air to get through the holes.
    If OP is going flat over night, the leak is significant enough that there is a problem. If OP is losing a little bit of air, it's possible the stem is leaking from the presta insert, which he has eluded to. Or the tire is weeping a lot of air as the inside hasn't been coated yet.
    Or the stem seal inside the wheel isn't solid.

    But I think it's in the best interest to waste more money on tape and the labor to remove and retape the wheels.

    Or OP could add a different valve and see what happens.

    If tire is going flat over night, I do not suggest using sealant until you can at least get it more stable -who wants to go through that mess. Yuck!

  31. #31
    mtbr member
    Reputation: austink26's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Posts
    122
    Quote Originally Posted by Forest Rider View Post
    I want to see a transparent rim with a tube installed. I feel that in no way is the tube applying enough positive, solid force onto the tape.
    Why would you think it isnít applying enough force? If you have ever blown up a tube outside of the tire it is clear just how flexible the rubber tube actually is. So it is going to take the shape and fill the void in the rim bed and apply even pressure. Put that tube up to 45psi and it definitely is going to apply enough force.

    It is actually really easy to test. I just did it recently. Tape the rim without pushing it into the center channel at all. Put a tube in overnight and check the next day. You will see that the tape is now seated in the channel and form fit with pretty much no wrinkles or ridges.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  32. #32
    mtbr member
    Reputation: sturge's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    1,191
    Quote Originally Posted by Schulze View Post
    If your tape stops before the bead of the tire, you're risking having to re-tape every time you change the tire because the bead is going to push the tape into the center. Sure, it works when sealant is fresh, but let it dry for a few weeks, form a nice sticky bond, and then try changing tires. Best practice is to tape bead to bead.
    I run a tire until it's toast...replace every year or so (about 1500 singletrack miles with my 220lbs pounding on the wheels). By then the rims and spokes have been scarred and beaten from all the bone around here. I end up having to replace a few spokes anyway so I take the opportunity to clean/inspect rim and re-appy tape.
    12 Santa Cruz Heckler
    18 Kona Process 153 AL/DL (27.5)...:thumbsup:

  33. #33
    mtbr member
    Reputation: MSU Alum's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    4,091
    Quote Originally Posted by austink26 View Post
    Put that tube up to 45psi and it definitely is going to apply enough force.
    It will apply 45 psi to the tape. That should be enough!

  34. #34
    mtbr member
    Reputation: sturge's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    1,191
    Quote Originally Posted by austink26 View Post
    Why would you think it isnít applying enough force? If you have ever blown up a tube outside of the tire it is clear just how flexible the rubber tube actually is. So it is going to take the shape and fill the void in the rim bed and apply even pressure. Put that tube up to 45psi and it definitely is going to apply enough force.

    It is actually really easy to test. I just did it recently. Tape the rim without pushing it into the center channel at all. Put a tube in overnight and check the next day. You will see that the tape is now seated in the channel and form fit with pretty much no wrinkles or ridges.
    For sure! Before tubeless, every time I pulled an old tube from a rim the tube had the outline of every spoke hole and little ridges from the tire beads, the bends in the rim, the rim tape, etc.

    I like the advice of 'onespeed'...many time's I've had a small leak that just went away after going for a ride and letting the sealant do it's job.
    12 Santa Cruz Heckler
    18 Kona Process 153 AL/DL (27.5)...:thumbsup:

  35. #35
    mtbr member
    Reputation: austink26's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Posts
    122
    Quote Originally Posted by sturge View Post
    For sure! Before tubeless, every time I pulled an old tube from a rim the tube had the outline of every spoke hole and little ridges from the tire beads, the bends in the rim, the rim tape, etc.
    Yep I remember this too. For a while I just ran a few layers of electrical tape on my bmx rims and I remember multiple instances of getting flats because the tube had pushed so hard that it had created a hole where the spoke holes were and the tube went into said hole and ended up rupturing.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  36. #36
    mtbr member
    Reputation: PuddleDuck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    1,483
    Here's a couple of HARDCORE rim cleaning / tape application procedures that I've read. Note that the 2n one heats up the rim to activate the glue in the tape.


    #1

    I usually start with Windex, then move to WD40, then alcohol, then mineral spirits / paint thinner, then acetone. Acetone pretty much never fails.


    #2

    ...comes down to the lack of knowledge on how to tape properly specially from the people that say their tape doesn't stick, shifts or sealant penetration. All tape will stick well if you do this properly. Three VERY important steps to this.

    1) Spray some BRAKE CLEANER (from automotive store or if you use a bike product Finish Line Speed degreaser is the better of them) into a clean rag and clean inside of rims really well. Brake cleaner and the finish line spray do not leave a residue and this is extremely important. Now use rubbing or denatured alcohol on a NEW rag to finish cleaning the rim. Make sure to get every spec of dirt/sealant that you can see. The more time you spend cleaning the better off you will be. Once cleaned don't touch any part of the inside of the rim. This is all pretty commonsense, now for the piece de resistance!

    2)WARM THE RIM UP!

    In the 17 years Iíve been a wrench i can tell you this is the most important step with ANY adhesive based liner, tubeless or tubed. You can use a heat gun, blow dryer or blowtorch (not carbon) to warm the rim up. Your not making the rim hot only warming it enough to not be cold. This allows the adhesive from the tape to soften, adhere much better and spread more evenly leaving no channels for the sealant to get under. (not responsible for you de tempering your rim or damaging your rim)

    3) when you cut the tape don't cut it straight across "---" it needs to be cut at a diagonal "/". It has much higher sheering strength this way. On a side note if you have a road bike and the tape securing your bar tape keeps coming a little undone cut it at a diagonal and your problem will be solved.

    Ive used a TON of different tapes in my days and VERY rarely have any problems with any of them shifting, or not adhering or sealant migrating under the tape or whatever else everyone is having problems with. Ive literally done hundreds and hundreds of conversions and maybe 1% of them have had a problem.

    Hope this helps ya'll and i promise it will make your lives easier.

  37. #37
    mtbr member
    Reputation: RacerLex's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    313
    Amazing feedback, I've taken them all into consideration! Here's some additional background:

    One bike, two wheelsets (carbon, alloy) and two sets of tires (Bontrager, Maxxis). Wheels and tires have been used for 6+ months, so not new. One tire in each set goes flat overnight. I've ignored this for several months until now.

    After going through your feedback here's what I've done:

    1. Removed tires/tape/valve.
    2. Thoroughly cleaned wheels with isopropyl alcohol using a microfiber towel.
    3. Installed new Stan's tape. I used a hairdryer to warm up the wheels just a bit before applying. I took my time and pulled the tape very tight as I centered and pressed down, dragging my finger towards the pull. Came out looking better than ever before!
    4. Reinstalled tires WITH TUBES pumped at 45psi (700x40c tires).

    I'm going to leave it like this for a few days, after which my next steps are:

    Remove tubes, examine tape (hopefully still perfect), install new Stan's valves, pump tires to 40psi without sealant, measure air pressure next day.

    I will be reporting back the outcome! Thanks for the encouragement!!!

  38. #38
    Wanna ride bikes?
    Reputation: *OneSpeed*'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    6,900
    Quote Originally Posted by RacerLex View Post
    After going through your feedback here's what I've done:

    1. Removed tires/tape/valve.
    2. Thoroughly cleaned wheels with isopropyl alcohol using a microfiber towel.
    3. Installed new Stan's tape. I used a hairdryer to warm up the wheels just a bit before applying. I took my time and pulled the tape very tight as I centered and pressed down, dragging my finger towards the pull. Came out looking better than ever before!
    4. Reinstalled tires WITH TUBES pumped at 45psi (700x40c tires).

    I'm going to leave it like this for a few days, after which my next steps are:
    A few days is overkill honestly. After 20-30 minutes I don't think there's anything to gain. The tube will have pressed the tape down sufficiently. Even pre-heating the rim was unnecessary if it was properly cleaned and free of contaminants.

    Remove tubes, examine tape (hopefully still perfect), install new Stan's valves, pump tires to 40psi without sealant, measure air pressure next day.
    The system is not designed to be air tight without sealant. Not only does it need sealant but you need to work it around inside the tire. Riding the bike is the best way to seal up all the small holes. Shaking the wheel for 3 minutes isn't sufficient in most cases. Go for a 20 minute ride! Bring a small pump if you think it's not holding air well.

    You don't need new valves. You may need to replace the one core, but honestly unless it's super old and plugged with sealant gunk, you can probably bend it strait and it'll be just fine. Just make sure it's properly snugged down. (finger tight)
    Rigid SS 29er
    SS 29+
    Fat Lefty
    SS cyclocross
    Full Sus 29er (Yuck)

    Stop asking how much it weighs and just go ride it.

  39. #39
    mtbr member
    Reputation: One Pivot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    8,697
    Just food for thought. If you don't tape bead to bead, you have 155 inches of exposed sealing edge that becomes critical for sealing. If *any* of this fails, you have a complete tubeless failure.

    If you tape bead to bead, you have a 1.5ish inch critical sealing edge. About 100 times less length of potential failure. This costs you about 1 gram of tape. Totally worth it.

  40. #40
    Hitching a ride
    Reputation: Schulze's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    3,184
    Quote Originally Posted by *OneSpeed* View Post
    The system is not designed to be air tight without sealant. Not only does it need sealant but you need to work it around inside the tire. Riding the bike is the best way to seal up all the small holes. Shaking the wheel for 3 minutes isn't sufficient in most cases. Go for a 20 minute ride! Bring a small pump if you think it's not holding air well.
    )
    I shake mine for about 30 seconds, perfect every time. Maybe your sealant or tire brand sucks.

  41. #41
    mtbr member
    Reputation: chrisx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    620
    <tape bead to bead?
    You want the tire to mount on tape and not on the bead of the rim?

    I tape the way stan says he likes tape done.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNCZfPWGoYE
    The only thing I do different.
    I use a green Scotch Brite to scuff the area the tape will be sticking to. This gets the tape to stay in place longer. I also clean the rim more throughly than the guy on the video.


    Is tape bead to bead, tape hanging over the bead? Sounds like some old style ghetto tubeless. 10 years on most of us have tubeless ready rims with bead hooks that shoud be bare and free of tape.

    This video has a good closeup of where the tape shoud be.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4MBjNovdQk


    Quote Originally Posted by *OneSpeed* View Post
    Shaking the wheel for 3 minutes isn't sufficient in most cases. Go for a 20 minute ride!
    (finger tight)
    Shaking the wheel; Hold the wheel at 3 and 9 as if it were a clock. Shake it so the bottom of the wheel moves closer to and away from your belt. Rotate just a little and repeat over and over all the way around the wheel. This is to get sealant all over the tire bead. Riding does not put sealant on the place where the tire touches the rim. Shaking side to side does. 3 minutes is not sufficient. Before your 200 minute ride.

  42. #42
    mtbr member
    Reputation: One Pivot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    8,697
    Stan's recommends 30mm tape for a 28mm rim. Up the side of the bead hook very slightly is ok, definitely not hanging way over.

    I'm saying the bare edge of the tape shouldnt be able to be lifted by air sneaking under. The tire bead should lock it down on the rim.

    Some people try to use 12-15mm tape for every rim. That creates the huge leak potential of 155 inches.

  43. #43
    mtbr member
    Reputation: RacerLex's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    313
    Update:

    I removed the tube in one tire, installed a valve (not new but one that wasn't know to leak), pumped to 40psi. Overnight the tire lost pressure down to 18psi. Better than before but way below expectations. I did the water test again and saw micro bubbles forming around the tire bead and a few on the sidewall.

    So now I'm adding 2oz of Stan's sealant, pumping the tire back to 40psi, and dancing with the wheel every so often so the sealant gets spread around.

    I hope this is it!

  44. #44
    mtbr member
    Reputation: austink26's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Posts
    122
    Fwiw I have never been able to get an airtight seal that didnít lose pressure gradually without sealant. The system really isnít designed for that. Any imperfection in the rubber around the bead would cause a slow leakage without sealant to fill the void.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  45. #45
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2019
    Posts
    227
    All my tires seal without sealant. I also only use valve stems that use Orings to seal against rim, I hate using the stems that have rubber that is at an angle.

    I had a rim that had the hole buggered up and the angle stems would not seal ever.

    For OP, id use sandpaper and clean up the inside of the rim, and you should get a good seal.

    I never use sealant to seal air, that's for mistakes on trail only

  46. #46
    mtbr member
    Reputation: J.B. Weld's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    12,349
    Quote Originally Posted by Outhouse View Post
    I never use sealant to seal air, that's for mistakes on trail only



    IME some tires hold pretty good without sealant and some don't. As mentioned they're really not designed to work without it.

    It seems common for new setups to lose a little air and a good ride or 2 usually sets them straight
    I brake for stinkbugs

  47. #47
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2019
    Posts
    227
    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post
    IME some tires hold pretty good without sealant and some don't. As mentioned they're really not designed to work without it.

    It seems common for new setups to lose a little air and a good ride or 2 usually sets them straight
    Yep have to agree, I tried to see how far I could get on my first set and made it 3 rides before I found a thorn. I still want to carry a pump and patch kt for large trail debris

  48. #48
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Posts
    1,918
    Quote Originally Posted by RacerLex View Post
    Update:

    I removed the tube in one tire, installed a valve (not new but one that wasn't know to leak), pumped to 40psi. Overnight the tire lost pressure down to 18psi. Better than before but way below expectations. I did the water test again and saw micro bubbles forming around the tire bead and a few on the sidewall.

    So now I'm adding 2oz of Stan's sealant, pumping the tire back to 40psi, and dancing with the wheel every so often so the sealant gets spread around.

    I hope this is it!
    Sounds like it's working about as good as it should be.

    I'd hold off on the sealant until you can ride, then add closer to 4oz, or even more than that. Based on a 29er.

    First, a lot of the sealant will be used just to coat the tire leaving you with far less. Next, 2oz is a small amount for the larger volume. If the tire was aged and you found sealant had dried up, I'd suggest 2oz if you wanted to be stingy.

    Once you add the sealant, just go ride it. It's been discussed over and over. This is how it works. Pouring it in ans sloshing it around won't do AS good a job as if you actually go ride it.
    You're spending too much time troubleshooting in the garage now.

    I used to have stock Specialized Control casing and those tires bled even when totally worn out -getting that weak sidewall to seal was never going to happen based on the amount of bubbles all along the sidewall years later.

  49. #49
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Tristan Wolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2019
    Posts
    211
    For a while a had Vittoria Geax non-tubeles folding version 29X2.1. It hold pressure pretty god. However it could not take less than 20-22psi without burping, and it was a pain to instal. Air compressor in LBS was not strong enough, so I had to use one in the tire shop for cars.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Similar Threads

  1. Tubeless woes: Am I cursed
    By Guy.Ford in forum Wheels and Tires
    Replies: 41
    Last Post: 12-06-2018, 07:48 PM
  2. Fatboy Tubeless Woes - front or rear only?
    By bonesetter2004 in forum Fat bikes
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 11-14-2014, 07:39 AM
  3. Tubeless woes and anomaly
    By Bruce in SoCal in forum General Discussion
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 07-21-2014, 05:15 PM
  4. Ugh. Trainers.
    By shredchic in forum Riding Passion
    Replies: 38
    Last Post: 01-08-2011, 07:16 AM
  5. Tubeless woes
    By Jason76 in forum Wheels and Tires
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 10-16-2008, 08:03 PM

Members who have read this thread: 135

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

THE SITE

ABOUT MTBR

VISIT US AT

© Copyright 2019 VerticalScope Inc. All rights reserved.