Tire insert options: Procore, Huck Norris, Flat Tire Defender, Cushcore, etc.- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Tire insert options: Procore, Huck Norris, Flat Tire Defender, Cushcore, etc.

    This market seems to be expanding: Procore, Huck Norris, Flat Tire Defender, and now Cushcore. And Gene with Betterride was using an Italian system last summer that is similar to Procore (whose name I can't remember now).

    NSMB has had a few articles and rundowns on the options, but I haven't seen a lot of discussion here since Procore was coming out.

    https://nsmb.com/articles/flats-and-dings-gone/

    https://nsmb.com/articles/cushcore-a...flat-solution/

    I've been interested in Huck Norris since my primary need is rim protection. But Cushcore has me interested. Anyone have any experience to share?

  2. #2
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    Huck Norris is the only one that interests me. Not the most protection but easy to install and pretty light.
    Formerly Travis Bickle

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  3. #3
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    We have had good luck with Huck Norris at our shop for over a year. The CushCore really interests me though. Almost seems like a more refined version of Flat Tire Defender...even if they don't have Gwin.

  4. #4
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    I'm waiting for the chinese huck norris knockoff for like $15 per wheel.

  5. #5
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    I had ordered a single CushCore 29er to try on the back of my single speed, it arrived last week. I'm sure there are more orders by now, but mine was order number 000008.
    Hope to install today if I have time. I went with CushCore mainly because it was significantly lighter compared to the flat tire defender, and they would let you buy a single piece.

    Anyone else try one?

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    Quote Originally Posted by primefocus View Post
    I had ordered a single CushCore 29er to try on the back of my single speed, it arrived last week. I'm sure there are more orders by now, but mine was order number 000008.
    Hope to install today if I have time. I went with CushCore mainly because it was significantly lighter compared to the flat tire defender, and they would let you buy a single piece.

    Anyone else try one?
    Something that wasn't clear to me on the cushcore website. If I order the single like you did, do I also need to order the valves or does the single come with one valve? It isn't pictured or mentioned on the order page so I didn't know for sure.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by adamleedy View Post
    Something that wasn't clear to me on the cushcore website. If I order the single like you did, do I also need to order the valves or does the single come with one valve? It isn't pictured or mentioned on the order page so I didn't know for sure.
    My apologies for the late reply, I don't think mine came with a valve when I ordered a single.
    I set mine up this week, but it looks like I have a leak in my rim tape and I'm now waiting for more in the mail. Set up wasn't terrible, just looking forward to trying it soon.

  8. #8
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    I took the plunge with CushCore. Installation isn't easy- that's no exaggeration. I'm not looking forward to taking the tires off again. It gets a little easier with experience, but that doesn't change the fact that it's a very tight fit. You really need to get physical with them.

    My setup is 29" Flow MK3 rims and Maxxis DHR2 2.4 and Forekaster 2.35. A slightly wider rim would probably be easier, as there would be more room for the insert and the beads.

    The inserts definitely look and feel like they'll provide decent rim protection. I started off about 5 psi below my usual pressure and the tires feel nice on the trail.

  9. #9
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    Did you feel the extra weight when installing in both the front and the rear?

  10. #10
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    No, certainly not while riding. I'm not hypersensitive to things like that, though. I also changed to a lighter tire in the rear (EXO instead of DoubleDown casing) so it was a very modest increase overall.

  11. #11
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    I've had a decent amount of time with the cushcore system in my rear wheel now and feel good about making some observations.

    1) I can feel the extra weight, but this is a 26 pound steel single speed hardtail (S.I.R. 9). I did go from an EXO TR 2.4 Ardent to a non-Exo TR Ardent for some modest wt savings.
    2) It is possibly the best change I have made on this bike in some time. I have safely decreased the pressure from 29 to 27 PSI without my I9 trails suffering any undue duress. That doesn't sound like much, but that two PSI means significantly more traction and cushion in this application. Trail chatter is reduced and I was able to stay in the saddle longer before having to stand up and use my legs to absorb hits.
    3) The protection gives the simple peace of mind and freedom to ride heavy on the rear wheel. For this reason alone I will keep it on there for now.

    I can absolutely see the utility on a DH rig, but this point I don't think I would run it on full suspension trail bike. Pretty neat concept however, and great for hard tails. I bet we will see even lighter variations in the future. Anyone else try the other systems yet?

  12. #12
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    About two weeks ago I saw this thread and decided to ask Cushcore about a release of a 26" product. No reply yet.
    Goodbye '95 ZJ. Just so you know, transfering box of left behind womens panties to next truck. Thank you ZJ!

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    It seems like a DIY Huck Norris would be pretty easy and a fraction the price. What material would work and not soak up sealant? Wondering how much a pool noodle weighs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mack_turtle View Post
    It seems like a DIY Huck Norris would be pretty easy and a fraction the price. What material would work and not soak up sealant? Wondering how much a pool noodle weighs.
    Pool noodle is too big in diameter.
    Goodbye '95 ZJ. Just so you know, transfering box of left behind womens panties to next truck. Thank you ZJ!

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    Quote Originally Posted by pdxmark View Post
    Pool noodle is too big in diameter.
    Depends on how handy you are with a blade!

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    Quote Originally Posted by mack_turtle View Post
    It seems like a DIY Huck Norris would be pretty easy and a fraction the price. What material would work and not soak up sealant? Wondering how much a pool noodle weighs.
    I used an old Yoga mat.

  17. #17
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    Excellent DIY! I am weaving together palm fronds this afternoon. Will report back.

  18. #18
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    i removed my huck norris from my carbon hoops and installed it on my backup roval wheelset.

    The Cushcore has side support, very useful when lowering tyre pressure below 25psi. however its 149g heavier than huck norris. The only problem with cushcore it comes with short valve which is useless to me. I still used my existing no stan valve it works perfect.

    The ride with cushcore while my tyre pressure is 21/25 is very comfy. it like there is added cushioning effect.

    it too me 30 mins to remove/install my tyres with cushcore.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by rave81 View Post
    The Cushcore has side support, very useful when lowering tyre pressure below 25psi. however its 149g heavier than huck norris...
    ...The ride with cushcore while my tyre pressure is 21/25 is very comfy. it like there is added cushioning effect.
    I can totally see how the Cushcore would be beneficial but man is 260g a lot of weight to add to a 29" tire, I think it would keep me up at night. But I am strongly considering a Huck Norris for my rear wheel with a 2.35" NN. I can live with 80g and I think I can skip it on the front, I will be running a 2.6" NN and I don't feel it will help as much. What was your feeling on the usefulness of the Huck Norris, did you get a feel for how much pressure you can safely drop with it? Can you tell it is in the wheel during normal riding?

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by VonFalkenhausen View Post
    I can totally see how the Cushcore would be beneficial but man is 260g a lot of weight to add to a 29" tire, I think it would keep me up at night. But I am strongly considering a Huck Norris for my rear wheel with a 2.35" NN. I can live with 80g and I think I can skip it on the front, I will be running a 2.6" NN and I don't feel it will help as much. What was your feeling on the usefulness of the Huck Norris, did you get a feel for how much pressure you can safely drop with it? Can you tell it is in the wheel during normal riding?
    The weight of Huck Norris is 101g each, so not much difference at all. The reason I bought Huck norris is for rim protection. The lowest I could go with Huck norris is 22/25 on rocky trails. Huck norries doesn't offer lateral stability. I don't notice the weight on huck norris at all.

    With Cushcore the lowest pressure is 15/20. its amazing. regarding rolling resistance barely noticeable with my 650b bike.

    Between the two I'll go for CushCore because the form is thicker and wider. It offers more rim protection, cushioning effect and lateral stability while using it sub 20 psi. The weight of each cush core is 250g. Its lighter than flat defender which is 290g each wheel.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rave81 View Post
    The weight of Huck Norris is 101g each, so not much difference at all. The reason I bought Huck norris is for rim protection. The lowest I could go with Huck norris is 22/25 on rocky trails. Huck norries doesn't offer lateral stability. I don't notice the weight on huck norris at all.

    With Cushcore the lowest pressure is 15/20. its amazing. regarding rolling resistance barely noticeable with my 650b bike.

    Between the two I'll go for CushCore because the form is thicker and wider. It offers more rim protection, cushioning effect and lateral stability while using it sub 20 psi. The weight of each cush core is 250g. Its lighter than flat defender which is 290g each wheel.
    Thanks for your thoughts. I would be happy getting into the low 20s with the Hucks. Did you weigh the Huck Norris? I ask because I looked up the specs on their website to get the 80g number, and the 260g for the 29er Cushcore. Light enough either way if it saves a rim. The ride characteristics of the Cushcore sound very tempting, but I am still hung up on the 180g difference, I will see how my setup rides and then maybe I will rethink it. But I am not usually hard on rims or particularly aggressive, so the insurance factor of the Hucks may be all I need. Did you feel any solid rock strikes through the Hucks, and did you notice any wear or damage to them when you pulled them? I assume your rims took no damage while using them?

  22. #22
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    Here's a review of Huck Norris:

    https://nsmb.com/articles/huck-norris-saves-day/

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mack_turtle
    Excellent DIY! I am weaving together palm fronds this afternoon. Will report back.
    Well?
    Goodbye '95 ZJ. Just so you know, transfering box of left behind womens panties to next truck. Thank you ZJ!

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schulze View Post
    I'm waiting for the chinese huck norris knockoff for like $15 per wheel.

    Link? I'd like to at least see what they look like.

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    for a cheap solution, how about this?
    Frost King Rubber Garage Door Bottom Kit (google it)
    I actually bought it and have not installed it but will try it.

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  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by romphaia View Post
    Well, that's exciting:

    "Banger uses a techno-polymer which is totally innovative world-wide to date."

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by evasive View Post
    Well, that's exciting:

    "Banger uses a techno-polymer which is totally innovative world-wide to date."
    "Tekno-polymer"... rave DJ?

    The rim manufacturing market is going to be pissed!
    Goodbye '95 ZJ. Just so you know, transfering box of left behind womens panties to next truck. Thank you ZJ!

  29. #29
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    The thing you have to remember about the Huck Norris is that is absorbs an amount of sealant. This renders that amount of sealant useless and more needs to be added to counter that. So now you have added the weight of the Huck Norris+the weight of the absorbed sealant over your already existing setup.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by GRPABT1 View Post
    The thing you have to remember about the Huck Norris is that is absorbs an amount of sealant.
    Huck Norris claims it is only 2%, if that is even close to accurate then it is not enough to worry about and since you would not really need to use more sealant than normal the total weight would not change. Maybe they are being optimistic but I doubt it absorbs much, it is closed cell foam, not a sponge. I will probably end up trying one, I also use Milkit valve stems, it won't be hard to see if the insert absorbs a significant amount of sealant by extracting the sealant after a couple of rides.

  31. #31
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    I had the pleasure of installing a Huck Norris.and a set of Flat Tire Defenders yesterday. I would have preferred the Cush Cores, but the FTD's were what was available in the time we needed them.

    The Huck Norris went into my rear wheel, a 50mm Derby with a brand new 2.8 DHR II. Gotta say, I've never had an easier time mounting a tire on a Derby. I've found that mounting tires on Derby rims is typically a compressor required exercise, and even then a lot of work. With Huck Norris installed? Huck Norris is a honey badger and just doesn't give a sheet, with just a few strokes of the floor pump - snap! - beads were set. So Easy!

    The Flat Tire Defenders were another story. They went onto a set of brand new i9 Grade wheels for my son's downhill bike. Tires were a pair of brand new 2.5" DHF's.

    I got the tire on the rim and installed the FTD, making sure to orient it correctly. The FTD is oval shaped and it doesn't seem to naturally relax into the correct orientation. Once the FTD is in the tire cavity and on the rim you need to make sure its in the correct orientation. So, couple brand new squeaky clean rim with brand new tacky clingy tires, add in a firm rubber insert and oh, boy! Its time for installation fun!

    I was fighting with the first wheel trying to get the last 12" of bead and it just was not happening. Way too much friction. Then I remembered the directions where they say to pour in your sealant before attempting to fully set the bead. Typically I like the through the valve stem method as its clean and easy. Wasn't going to happen this time. Nope, rejected, do not pass go, do not collect $200.

    I admitted defeat and decided to add the sealant to the open cavity before the bead was set. Time to give it another try. I swished the Stans about and made sure to get some out to the bead and onto the FTD before rotating the tire so the fluid was at the bottom and the open bead was at the top.

    Oh my word! The sky's opened up with rays of golden light and angels sang hallelujah! That bead popped right on. It wasn't "easy". It still required tire levers but compared to before, it was like hitting the Stapples EASY button. I did the second wheel using this same method and same results. Nice and "easy".

    The beads set with zero fuss. Floor pump and not even a "snap!", just set in place. 15 hours later all the wheels are holding air as they should. Nice!
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    How much hassle do these cause if you get a puncture that won't seal and are forced to install a tube trailside? Harder to get the tyre off? A hassle carrying the sealant-soaked insert somewhere in your pack?

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by phreeky View Post
    How much hassle do these cause if you get a puncture that won't seal and are forced to install a tube trailside? Harder to get the tyre off? A hassle carrying the sealant-soaked insert somewhere in your pack?
    I'd just ride out on the insert.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by aliikane View Post
    Link? I'd like to at least see what they look like.
    Also discovered "Huck Norris" brand of foam inserts. Less weight and money than the above FTD inserts. Seems like these foam liner inserts are gaining "traction"!

    Home - Huck Norris

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-HNipG06CU

    Also in the DH Forum:
    http://forums.mtbr.com/downhill-free...s-1041278.html
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  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by phreeky View Post
    How much hassle do these cause if you get a puncture that won't seal and are forced to install a tube trailside? Harder to get the tyre off? A hassle carrying the sealant-soaked insert somewhere in your pack?
    Getting the tire off? Huck Norris: No problem at all. FTD: They're probably going to be a boat load of fun! Carrying a sealant soaked insert? That'll be a mess no matter how you shake it. But, I really don't think you need to go this route, see below.

    Quote Originally Posted by evasive View Post
    I'd just ride out on the insert.
    Pretty sure the FTD directions says this is a very bad idea, or something along those lines.

    If you did puncture a tire with one of these in there I'd think a Dynaplug or Genuine Innovations tire plug would help to save the day. FWIW I've had good luck with the Dynaplug.

    All that said my son and I rode at Highland Mountain Bike Park today and had a great time. Both the Huck Norris and the FTD were successful and performed as expected. The wheels felt normal and neither of us could feel a difference between riding with inserts or not... with the exception of no pinch flats.

    I'm not a big time park rider; too old and slow. He, on the other hand, sends it big time. I think the two solutions work perfectly for their intended solutions. The Huck Norris is a simple, lightweight trail solution (that also worked very nicely at the park). The FTD (and probably the cushcore) is way more robust and seems a good solution for more aggressive riding like downhill and enduro racing. I'm happy with both of them and fell that they've been $$$ well spent.
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  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by mack_turtle View Post
    It seems like a DIY Huck Norris would be pretty easy and a fraction the price. What material would work and not soak up sealant? Wondering how much a pool noodle weighs.
    I'm thinking foam pipe insulation.
    Quote Originally Posted by pvd
    Time to stop believing the hype and start doing some science.
    29er Tire Weight Database

  37. #37
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    The biggest deterrent for me is the weight because most of the companies making them weigh 200 grams or more. That is a lot of rotating weight unless it is strictly for a downhill rig. I pedal a lot so the rotating weight is a concern. The Huck Norris is lighter but it doesn't look as protective as the other ones.

    I just shattered my rear carbon rim so I am definitely looking at options. I have been thinking of using a pool noodle or plumbing insulation as an experiment for a while now. Today I went to Home Depot and got some plumbing insulation and taped it up. It fits well in a 2.35 Schwalbe Hans Dampf 27.5. Weighs 62 grams. Been able to ride with lower pressures. A few issues. Mainly not sure how well the sealant will work with the tire insert. However, it is worth experimenting with.

    Tire insert options: Procore, Huck Norris, Flat Tire Defender, Cushcore, etc.-img_20170509_115834.jpg
    Tire insert options: Procore, Huck Norris, Flat Tire Defender, Cushcore, etc.-img_20170509_115856.jpg
    Last edited by aliikane; 05-23-2017 at 10:11 PM.

  38. #38
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    I'm considering Cushcore on a couple of new builds, but am suspect of their claims especially given the misleading comparison chart found here: Product Comparison ? CushCore . I was/am an early ProCore adopter and from a performance standpoint I am absolutely SOLD on its use in the rear wheel. It absolutely provides "Shock absorption," "lateral stability," "pinch flat protection" and it also happens to be tune-able based off of how much psi you run in the ProCore chamber. It's been a ground breaking performance increase for the rear end of my bike. That being said, I HATE the too short, easily breakable, clog prone, 2-way valve... The "inner tire casing" also accumulates a thick coating a stans boogers that can't be scraped off adding weight over time to the system.

    I also don't understand how the CushCore provides reliable "burp" protection and uniform "lateral stability" in a 1-size fits all solution. Intuition would imply the wider your tire and rim combo, that there is less "CushCore" force holding your sidewalls and beads in place.

    Thoughts?
    Last edited by laksboy; 05-11-2017 at 11:06 AM.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by laksboy View Post
    I also don't understand how the CushCore provides reliable "burp" protection and uniform "lateral stability" in a 1-size fits all solution. Intuition would imply the wider your tire and rim combo, that there is less "CushCore" force holding your sidewalls and beads in place.

    Thoughts?
    My thoughts are the same, and though I really like the concept, the weight per tire turns me off.
    Quote Originally Posted by pvd
    Time to stop believing the hype and start doing some science.
    29er Tire Weight Database

  40. #40
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    I emailed CushCore and their response seems to validate my concerns. In order to get sidewall support and lateral stability in wide wheeled set-ups, the CushCore also needs to get wider.

    ---------------------------------
    Thanks for your interest. Current CushCore designs are optimized for tires between 2.1-2.5” width. With tires wider than that, you still get vertical impact protection, but less of the lateral stability and sidewall damping benefits. That said, we have several customers using Cushcore with plus-sized tires and they have reported good results. A plus-sized specific CushCore is slated for release in the fall.

    Our T-shaped valve is 35mm long. It’s too short for deep section carbon rims. However, we are currently manufacturing a 55mm valve, which will be available in 4-6 weeks.
    -----------------------------------------------------

  41. #41
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    Really awesome to see Cushcore essentially saved Jared Graves's race at this last EWS. He was able to ride out the rest of the stage and still stay relatively pinned after flatting.

    I have been running Cushcore for about a month now. They talk about how you can run lighter weight tires but where we live (Northeast) I cut tires. The last thing I want to happen is to cut a tire - Cushcore doesn't help with that. I currently have EXO in the rear instead of my normal double down but I think will be switching back to DD after this next race.

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    I've started using FTD on my hardtail and FS bike. Both regular 29er wheels.

    The first install on my FS with the special stems went fine, but trail side on the first ride, the rubber ring I used on the stem gave up. I pulled it out pretty easy trailside with just a regular plastic tire spoon. I got lucky and had my big Camelbak on for the first time in forever that ride, but it did take up a ton of space. There are two rubber gasket included, when I got home, I used the bigger one and I have had zero problems since.

    I went from having to run DD cased Maxxis tires pumped up to around 30PSI on wide rims to avoid pinch flats, to FTD+Exo cased tires. No issues at all. No rim dings, no burping, no tread punctures, nothing. I'm impressed. I ride on the east coast where we have rocks galore, and I have hit some sharp stuff and square edged things (blind hardtail enduro racing in WVa for ya), and my tires are still holding up.

    As far as mounting, it does take a bit more effort. If you have ever had to put a dirt bike tire on, you'll figure out the tricks fast. Once you get the insert in and the tire mostly on, lay the wheel on the floor, push the bead opposite of what you want to install down into the valley of the rim, and work the bead on with a DH tire lever. I use my knees and left hand to press the tire down into the valley and keep the bead from walking off. It gets easier after a couple tries at it, I promise...

    Yes, they do weigh a decent bit, but the weight gain is minimal on FTD+Exo vs DD tires. A ride or two and you won't notice the weight anymore unless you are an ultra sensitive weight weenie. Less flats are worth the hit in weight IMO.

  43. #43
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    A review of CushCore up on NSMB. Riding them flat is specifically mentioned in the wake of Graves' and Fairclough's recent race experiences.

    https://nsmb.com/articles/cushcore-i...-shore-tested/

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by pdxmark View Post
    Pool noodle is too big in diameter.
    Look at that gray foam pipe insulation?

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    So anyone think these could help in xc applications? The trick would be to run smaller tires at less psi


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    If you're not an xc racer, like a smoother ride with more traction, reduced flats, reduced chance of wheel damage, and want to ride with reckless abandon on your rear wheel... Absolutely.

  47. #47
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    I think you can get the Procore for pretty cheap now. For the same price or cheaper than the inserts. They are $79 @ Art's + another 15% off with the vip15 code.

    Would the Procore better or worse than the inserts? At this price...it's pretty tempting to try out.

  48. #48
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    I put a Huck Norris insert in my rear tyre yesterday. It's a medium sized insert in a 2.4" WT Minion DHR2 on a 30mm internal width rim.

    Is it normal to hear/feel the insert moving around?

    Basically if I get the rear wheel moving then pull the brakes the insert continues moving for a second after the wheel has stopped. It's riding around inside the tyre in the sealant like a human on a water slide. It's a little off-putting.

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paranoid_Android View Post
    I put a Huck Norris insert in my rear tyre yesterday. It's a medium sized insert in a 2.4" WT Minion DHR2 on a 30mm internal width rim.

    Is it normal to hear/feel the insert moving around?

    Basically if I get the rear wheel moving then pull the brakes the insert continues moving for a second after the wheel has stopped. It's riding around inside the tyre in the sealant like a human on a water slide. It's a little off-putting.
    I can hear the HN moving about inside my tire, at least when spinning on the stand. I always assumed that was because my tires are 2.8s on an i45 rim. That said, when I'm on the trail I can't hear a thing from the HN's, and that's with Onyx hubs. I'm guessing this is normal.
    IBIS Mojo 3
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  50. #50
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    Thanks, mate. Good to hear.

  51. #51
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    Pump up your damn tires, and get off my lawn.

  52. #52
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    When i was installing the Huck Norris, I noted that the Velcro didn't seem to be the kind that would be deal well with being wet. Today I popped a section of tyre off the rim to check if the Velcro had kept the HN together. It hadn't. I haven't even been for a ride with the HN yet so Velcro doesn't seem particularly suitable. I replaced it with a few small cable ties.

  53. #53
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    Vital did a comparison of six options:

    http://m.vitalmtb.com/features/Vital...t-Systems,1841

  54. #54
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    I put some pipe foam from lowes in my dh bike tires, .1lbs added per wheel, dropped about 5psi, and no flats despite multiple bottom outs and rim strikes. They cost $1.26 per 6ft piece, need three to do two wheels. I'll be adding them to my trail bike too, make sure to get the fat ones if you try it out. The durability is probably bad vs the real ones but for three dollars who cares. It also keeps the tire on much better.

  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by kitejumping View Post
    I put some pipe foam from lowes in my dh bike tires, .1lbs added per wheel, dropped about 5psi, and no flats despite multiple bottom outs and rim strikes. They cost $1.26 per 6ft piece, need three to do two wheels. I'll be adding them to my trail bike too, make sure to get the fat ones if you try it out. The durability is probably bad vs the real ones but for three dollars who cares. It also keeps the tire on much better.
    KJ, qualitatively speaking, you probably do get 70% of the performance with the pipe insulation, initially anyways. Until it gets all compressed, cut up, and soaks up all your sealent.

    I'm a long-term rear wheel procore user and just got a new bike and decided to go with cushcore instead. I wanted to try something new and I was getting tired of the fancy, finicky, damage-prone procore valve getting permanently clogged with stans.

    Anyways, while I can't give a direct comparison since it's a totally different bike, I can say it's just as good as procore is. maybe better. With the tire completely flat, you can tell that there is a lot more sidewall support than procore. A lot. I've ridden home on a flat tire with procore and while it's doable, I'd be much more confident and be able to ride faster on a flat cushcore tire. I'm currently riding the front w/o the cushcore but will eventually instal it and it will be interesting to see if there is a direct benefit comparison there. I had ended up uninstalling the procore from my front wheel so that I could use it on a different bike in the rear. FOr me that is where the main benefit has been. That being said, with the extra sidewall support that cushcore has, there might be more of a benefit for me with additional lateral support at low psi.

    Other feedback is: I love riding with 16-18 psi tires. the suppleness and grip is just fantastic (our terrain is very chunky loose sharp rock). That being said, climbing fireroad or fast rolling trail at that psi is noticably more work compared to my friends at 25 psi... That's the biggest trade-off for me. Being able to just point the bike down the nastiest line at speed and not worrying about rim damage and flats is just fantastic.

  56. #56
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    Cushcore said they would have 26" out by begining fall 2017(q3), but tired of waiting. So I'm going to buy a 27.5" cushcore for the rear and cut and mend it for 26".

    Will review!

  57. #57
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    That sounds a bit sketchy. Make sure you get "the mend" nice and tight. Otherwise you will lose the sidewall/burp support.

  58. #58
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    Questionable plan. Qushcore is super tight on the rim. It took every thing I had to get it stretched over the rim without a tire. If you make it as tight as it's supposed to be I doubt you'll be able bond it back together and have it hold.

  59. #59
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    You guys are correct. LBS mech was telling me today how tight they are, which is an integral part of the sidewall support... Please hurry with the 26" cushcore!
    Goodbye '95 ZJ. Just so you know, transfering box of left behind womens panties to next truck. Thank you ZJ!

  60. #60
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    I descended ~3,000 feet at Grand Targhee on a flat rear with CushCore yesterday. It worked really well until I got cocky and cornered a little too hard and peeled the bead. The insert stretched a bit and isn't as tight a fit. I'll probably need to replace it next season, I imagine. But as a ride-out solution, it was great.

  61. #61
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    I was completely unable to get my Maxis Minion's bead seated on my Mulefut 80sl with just the Sun Ringle rim tape.
    • air compressor
    • valve core removed
    • tried wrapping with inner tube
    • tried manually moving the bead to the seat with a tire lever


    And (besides being a sunday) I couldn't find any product for 5" tires.

    So i whipped these up from a $10 walmart closed-cell foam camping mat

    Tire insert options: Procore, Huck Norris, Flat Tire Defender, Cushcore, etc.-img_20170917_153606683.jpg
    Tire insert options: Procore, Huck Norris, Flat Tire Defender, Cushcore, etc.-img_20170917_153716918_hdr.jpg

    With this, the tire seated instantly.

    The mat was only 70" long, which is about the exact circumference of the rim. I wanted to try it at that position, so i just stitched one length of 3" wide material into a circle, which sits snug on the rim.

    I plan on trying a slightly larger diameter (~4.5" for my 5" tires) that will float, and offer some better rim protection, on the front tire. Right now riding on just the rear (as tubeless) to make sure i don't have any issues.

  62. #62
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    I look forward to hearing about the fat tire mod. I am killing my rear rim on jumps and would like a way to stay with relatively low air pressure and still have rim protection.

    Quote Originally Posted by high_desert_mud View Post
    I was completely unable to get my Maxis Minion's bead seated on my Mulefut 80sl with just the Sun Ringle rim tape.
    • air compressor
    • valve core removed
    • tried wrapping with inner tube
    • tried manually moving the bead to the seat with a tire lever


    And (besides being a sunday) I couldn't find any product for 5" tires.

    So i whipped these up from a $10 walmart closed-cell foam camping mat

    Click image for larger version. 

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    With this, the tire seated instantly.

    The mat was only 70" long, which is about the exact circumference of the rim. I wanted to try it at that position, so i just stitched one length of 3" wide material into a circle, which sits snug on the rim.

    I plan on trying a slightly larger diameter (~4.5" for my 5" tires) that will float, and offer some better rim protection, on the front tire. Right now riding on just the rear (as tubeless) to make sure i don't have any issues.

  63. #63
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    Hey there,
    I'm pioneering a new tire insert that will work with both tubes and tubeless and that solves bottoming out on the rim as well as pinch and pin prick flats.
    You would all be of huge help if you could complete this super quick survey for me in order for me to conquer the war against flats and dinged rims.

    https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/muzzworks

    Would be very much appreciated.

    Thanks

  64. #64
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    Only takes 1 minute

  65. #65
    BOOM goes the dynamite!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom_muzz16 View Post
    Only takes 1 minute
    Still no. Really. This makes 7 or 8 spam posts from you out of 11 total. Not a good record.

  66. #66
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    Tuned in.

    I've been running the FTDs all this past season on my DH rig. Very happy with them. Setup and un-install is a hassle but worth it. My local DH is very steep and rocky, rooty, and wet. Running low pressures are nice, but rim dings are very common, but now with the FTDs not such a big deal.

  67. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schulze View Post
    I'm waiting for the chinese huck norris knockoff for like $15 per wheel.
    Haha! Yes!

    Would love to try the Cushcore but $150 for a set is just pure Gordon Gecko greed.

    I'm sure the copies will be on Aliexpress soon (and then on Amazon with some similar name like Kooshcore).

  68. #68
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    I ran huck norris for a while, it doesn't last, works great when new but breaks down pretty quickly. IMHO it shouldn't cost more than a tube.

  69. #69
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    I am using the Csixx Foamo. I have it in the rear wheel of my dual sus and hardtail. It is extremely noticeable on the hardtail when you case jumps. Glad I have it as it will aid in protecting the rim too.

  70. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by kitejumping View Post
    I ran huck norris for a while, it doesn't last, works great when new but breaks down pretty quickly. IMHO it shouldn't cost more than a tube.
    Thanks for this, I was wondering about the durability.
    Formerly Travis Bickle

    Team Robot. "modulation is code for “I suck at brake control.” Here’s a free tip: get better."

  71. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Travis Bickle View Post
    Thanks for this, I was wondering about the durability.
    Yeah, I don't know what kind of riders they had testing it but the durability isn't there for the price. I also went through two carbon rims last summer running it, so it doesn't work on that front either. The pipe insulation or yoga mat offers similar performance but it soaks up way too much sealant. After my experience with huck norris I'm hesitant to throw down on a cush core, as it is a much bigger loss if it is destroyed in two months, and it costs as much as a replacement China rim, which I tend to doubt it would protect well enough (I usually go through 2-4 rims a season). Some people would say run alloy, but those require way more truing work, and have a death of a thousand dents, vs carbon that holds up very well and then explodes one day.

  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by camus View Post
    Haha! Yes!

    Would love to try the Cushcore but $150 for a set is just pure Gordon Gecko greed.

    I'm sure the copies will be on Aliexpress soon (and then on Amazon with some similar name like Kooshcore).
    People sure have no idea how much it costs to get a niche product like this to market.

  73. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by ac1000 View Post
    People sure have no idea how much it costs to get a niche product like this to market.
    Understandable, but for something with a high R&D cost that is super cheap to produce, they should let you send in your destroyed one for a replacement super cheap after paying full price for one and destroying it. If that was the case I would totally try it out.

  74. #74
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    I've been using Huck Norris for a full season and haven't noticed any "break down".

    What happened to your? foam began tearing...?

    So far, so good with mine

  75. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Squeaky Wheel View Post
    I've been using Huck Norris for a full season and haven't noticed any "break down".

    What happened to your? foam began tearing...?

    So far, so good with mine
    Yep, it's shredded to the point it offers no protection.

  76. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by ac1000 View Post
    People sure have no idea how much it costs to get a niche product like this to market.
    Yah. I'm sure it was a ton of time and effort to get a factory in China to make the foam inserts. No question.

    Nevertheless, that doesn't justify the price to me. I don't care if the guy had to sell his first born. No difference to me. If it was I would just open my wallet and walk down the street and hand out twenties.

    Found this video and going to make my own:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCfRoxOBarw

  77. #77
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    So switched to procore and I can finally safely run pressures under 30psi in my back tire without burping under hard cornering, it really locks the bead on the rim, also once you figure out installation I think its much easier than the videos I've seen of people struggling with cushcore online. As a bonus if you do need to throw in a tube the system can be removed trailside. Highly recommended but if you run China carbon hoops you'll probably have to drill out a bit of the valve hole to get it to fit cause the valve stems are so short. I'll be putting it on my DH bike as well for DH season.

  78. #78
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    I have currently have both cushcore and procore on my bikes. and FWIW, the procore is WAY more difficult to install/uninstall than the cushcore. After it's instaled the cushcore actualy stretches and goes on and off much easier. I presume because of this, it will also lose some of it's beadlock capability. I have a couple of non-tubeless 26" rims (converted) that the procore is super easy on and off, but on my LB carbon rims, with presumably tighter/wider tolerances, it's an ABSOLUTE BEAR.

    That being said, for 99% of people I think Cushcore is the better solution, though not yet perfect. Procore will do you fine and certainly provides the best beadlock solution. Procore does not provide as much or significant sidewall support and slightly less rim protection. Stans ALSO adheres to the inner blue tire over time and is basically impossibel to get off. So it slowly gains weight. Mine are 3 years old. The valve stems are also fragile and eventually clog and can't be cleared even with the valve core removed. Also the outside of the blue innercasing can became adheared to the inside of your tire making removal even more difficult. I've also managed to pinchflat the procore tube twice. and of course the too-short valve stem.

    The cushcore foam is VERY robust/cut resistant. How resisitant, well, I actually cut out the inner middle on one bike so I could combine my procore with my cushcore.... I dulled 2 razer blades in the process and it was no easy task. WHY??? Because I have a DH/enduro tandem and my stoker is my son and thus we need to run super low psi to get traction out of the rear wheel since he's so light. But I also drift the thing around corners so I wanted the 100% beadlock security (15 psi) combined with the better coverage, damping, and sidewall support of Cushcore (and of course rim protection when blasting down the chunk).




    Quote Originally Posted by kitejumping View Post
    So switched to procore and I can finally safely run pressures under 30psi in my back tire without burping under hard cornering, it really locks the bead on the rim, also once you figure out installation I think its much easier than the videos I've seen of people struggling with cushcore online. As a bonus if you do need to throw in a tube the system can be removed trailside. Highly recommended but if you run China carbon hoops you'll probably have to drill out a bit of the valve hole to get it to fit cause the valve stems are so short. I'll be putting it on my DH bike as well for DH season.

  79. #79
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    Tire insert options: Procore, Huck Norris, Flat Tire Defender, Cushcore, etc.-img_20180601_140334712_hdr.jpgTire insert options: Procore, Huck Norris, Flat Tire Defender, Cushcore, etc.-img_20180603_160015341.jpg

    hollowed out cushcore so I could fit a procore set-up inside it. Best of all worlds basically. Unless you are an xc racer.
    second picture shows the stans build-up on a 3 year old procore inner tire.

  80. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by laksboy View Post
    Click image for larger version. 

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    hollowed out cushcore so I could fit a procore set-up inside it. Best of all worlds basically. Unless you are an xc racer.
    second picture shows the stans build-up on a 3 year old procore inner tire.
    That's really cool! I think for me keeping the bead locked on the tire is more of an advantage than the lower psi when running procore. I switched my rear procore tire back to exo casing from DD and also had orange seal build up on the blue tire.

  81. #81
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    I'm still trying to grasp a DH/Enduro tandem. Got some pics?
    Formerly Travis Bickle

    Team Robot. "modulation is code for “I suck at brake control.” Here’s a free tip: get better."

  82. #82
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    https://www.instagram.com/bikechurchshuttles/


    Quote Originally Posted by Travis Bickle View Post
    I'm still trying to grasp a DH/Enduro tandem. Got some pics?

  83. #83
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    Supercrazy

    Sent from my SM-G935S using Tapatalk
    Formerly Travis Bickle

    Team Robot. "modulation is code for “I suck at brake control.” Here’s a free tip: get better."

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