Is there a secret to mounting double casing tires?- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Is there a secret to mounting double casing tires?

    So this morning I got a flat after running over a rock, about 10 miles into a ride. I learned that I had the wrong backup tube in my pack, and that a mixed sealant of multiple types did not work as well as I’d hoped.

    Long story but, I stopped and picked up some Maxxis double casing tires that seem to be a lot thicker and hopefully more resilient.

    Trying to mount these onto Bontrager Line Pro wheels, and the center of the wheel has a very small depressed area, so I have not been able to get them to go on. Tried everything I knew to try, but these just don’t seem to want to go over that last 9-12 inches.

    May end up at a shop, but don’t want to accept defeat just yet. Any ideas?

  2. #2
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    Soapy water (I use a spray-bottle) along the tire bead, be generous. Use riding gloves to pry the tire over, not your bare hands. Prolly throw those tires into the oven on "warm" if they'll fit without getting close to the heating elements. Plastic tire levers, I like quik-stiks, but you have to be careful because even these can scratch your tubeless tape if you aren't watching it.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  3. #3
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    i broke all my plastic tire levers until i got the pedros plastic tire levers
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  4. #4
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    ^^^ yeah. Pedro's are among the best plastic tire levers. As Jayem points out, you gotta be carefull not to puncture the rim tape or strip when lever the bead onto the rim. There is a device called a bead jack made by Kool-Stop. I've tried one on a few occasions and you might find it helpful. Other than that, as already pointed out, push the bead into the rim groove and try to work as much slack toward that final few inches as you can. Lubing the bead all around, not the last part you're trying to get on, can help.

    You can take it to the LBS and have them show you how they do it. In my experience, it often involves cursing. I know it helps me.
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  5. #5
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    Lol, yeah lots of cursing and a couple broken plastic levers already...

    I tried lubing with straight dish soap, and just can’t seem to get that last bit. May pull it off again and soap the whole tire, I only soaped the one bead after the other was on.

    Thanks for the advice to all

  6. #6
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    Soap helps the bead snap in place once its already on the rim. Its not doing to do much to help you get it on there.

    Some tires plain don't play well with some rims. If you're fighting it that much at home, imagine how bad it will be on the trail.

    I mounted a WTB tire on a old stans rim once. I warned the owner, but they wanted it on anyway. Theres no way in hell that thing was ever repaired trailside.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Pivot View Post
    Soap helps the bead snap in place once its already on the rim. Its not doing to do much to help you get it on there.

    Some tires plain don't play well with some rims. If you're fighting it that much at home, imagine how bad it will be on the trail.

    I mounted a WTB tire on a old stans rim once. I warned the owner, but they wanted it on anyway. Theres no way in hell that thing was ever repaired trailside.
    Yeah this has been in the back of my mind all day. There is NO way I could make any repair trail side. May need to look at different wheels if I want to use these types of tires. I have flipped MX tires that went easier than these are going. There just doesn’t seem to be enough room inside the rim for the beads to give the amount needed to get on there.

    May have to go another direction, or just get ready for some additional trail side flat repairs. One thing for sure I will have the right parts the next time...

  8. #8
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    Bonty se5s are durable and I'm sure they play well with bonty rims.

  9. #9
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    I will look into those. Thanks

    The tire that was on there was the SE4 Team issue, I will check into the SE5.

    Thanks

  10. #10
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    I learned doing tires on my Harley that it's impossible to manually mount (or remove) a tire without using the smaller ID in the center of the rim 180 deg from where you're using tire iron to clear the rim. With heavier walled tires, once you get both beads started in the rim they will naturally spread away from the smaller ID groove which takes away the slack to finish the job 360 deg around. For motorcycle tires, I've used a 'C' clamp (or a helper) to keep beads squeezed together giving me as much slack as possible as I work my way around.

    Warm tires help...soapy water and lots of colorful language is a must.

    Not all rims are alike so maybe yours don't have much of a 'groove' to help you.
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  11. #11
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    So I figured a couple pics may show my issue...

    Is there a secret to mounting double casing tires?-33e21d78-3877-4c3b-a132-4f5e5ae45f97.jpg
    Is there a secret to mounting double casing tires?-03ca6a7e-62ef-48f9-a9d9-c1fd558e0c35.jpg
    Is there a secret to mounting double casing tires?-4c577727-9172-4da9-8567-4f146dd3c230.jpg
    Is there a secret to mounting double casing tires?-e2d88559-df74-4db5-8789-df28da51ceb0.jpg

    It looks like the rim depression is about 5/16”, and the two beads touching are 1/2” wide. This is why I cannot get enough slack to complete it. Sorry the rim pic with the ruler was hard to line up but the measurements are pretty close.

    Really want to try these the tires feel good to work with. May have to return and order the EXO casing if it is thinner.

  12. #12
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    Ugg, that's a pretty poor rim profile for sure. Still, I'd think with a combination of some of the more aggressive techniques you could possibly get some relief.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bills View Post
    So I figured a couple pics may show my issue...

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    It looks like the rim depression is about 5/16”, and the two beads touching are 1/2” wide. This is why I cannot get enough slack to complete it. Sorry the rim pic with the ruler was hard to line up but the measurements are pretty close.

    Really want to try these the tires feel good to work with. May have to return and order the EXO casing if it is thinner.
    It would seem to me that you only need to have one side at a time in the grove. I would start by putting the rim inside the tire and working one side at a time. Once you get one side on then slide that side over to the bead as far as you can then put the other side into the grove to get it on. It still may be a no go as stated before that some tires and rims just don't play well together but this should give you your best chance.
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  14. #14
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    ^this

    use laundry soap and water (very slippy)

    there can always be at least 16 inches where only one bead needs to sit in the center

    I've had super super impossible tires swore never could fit, and laundry soap got them on no tire lever needed.
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  15. #15
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    I will try with laundry soap... now if they do go on (by the way I had a Bonty SE3 and it goes on by hand no issue). Will the tires loosen up any, so if there was an issue on a trail, could you do a field repair? Granted these tires should be more resilient but things always seem to happen.

    Thanks for the tips

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bills View Post
    I will try with laundry soap... now if they do go on (by the way I had a Bonty SE3 and it goes on by hand no issue). Will the tires loosen up any, so if there was an issue on a trail, could you do a field repair? Granted these tires should be more resilient but things always seem to happen.

    Thanks for the tips
    depends on the tire

    but I'm running WTB tires on DT rims and they were MONSTERS to install initially. I've changed hundreds of tires working in shops for quite some time, so I can change a lot of tires by hand that'll send most mortals to tire levers, and these had me using (and breaking) levers. I had some issues and removed/reinstalled the rear one a couple of times. I'm sure that part of it was that I was figuring them out a bit by then, but I also feel like the fit was just a touch looser. Not loose by any stretch, but just enough that they were manageable.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold View Post
    depends on the tire

    but I'm running WTB tires on DT rims and they were MONSTERS to install initially. I've changed hundreds of tires working in shops for quite some time, so I can change a lot of tires by hand that'll send most mortals to tire levers, and these had me using (and breaking) levers. I had some issues and removed/reinstalled the rear one a couple of times. I'm sure that part of it was that I was figuring them out a bit by then, but I also feel like the fit was just a touch looser. Not loose by any stretch, but just enough that they were manageable.
    This is my experience as well.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  18. #18
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    Bontrager is playing a joke on the consumer with that rim strip.

  19. #19
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    People are going to kill me for suggesting this, but a couple of large, flathead screwdrivers that have the dullest possible tips will get the tire on. I've snapped more than one plastic lever and threw it in the trash, but the forged steel leverage of a flathead screwdriver will not bend. The only problem is that you will scrape up the outside of your rim. I don't care because my rims are only $100-200. Just make sure that only the barest, shortest possible length of flathead is used to lever it on, so the inside of the rim doesn't get scraped. You can hold one end of the unmounted tire with a more narrow screwdriver and use the wider flathead on the other end to slowly lever it on one inch at a time until the bead finally snaps onto the rim. I'd much rather do it this way than have another flat 5 miles away from my car and have to do the walk of shame because I could not get the tire on the rim. And don't think that 'everyone else' is an expert, even an LBS can have problems setting up tubeless, I've seen it.
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by richj8990 View Post
    People are going to kill me for suggesting this, but a couple of large, flathead screwdrivers that have the dullest possible tips will get the tire on. I've snapped more than one plastic lever and threw it in the trash, but the forged steel leverage of a flathead screwdriver will not bend. The only problem is that you will scrape up the outside of your rim. I don't care because my rims are only $100-200. Just make sure that only the barest, shortest possible length of flathead is used to lever it on, so the inside of the rim doesn't get scraped. You can hold one end of the unmounted tire with a more narrow screwdriver and use the wider flathead on the other end to slowly lever it on one inch at a time until the bead finally snaps onto the rim. I'd much rather do it this way than have another flat 5 miles away from my car and have to do the walk of shame because I could not get the tire on the rim. And don't think that 'everyone else' is an expert, even an LBS can have problems setting up tubeless, I've seen it.
    Motorcycle tire levers are just that.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  21. #21
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    I was always willing to be a little rougher on my motorcycle rims.

  22. #22
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    No reason you would not be able to mount on those, once it gets to that last bit, use your tire lever and push the bead that is on the rim into the channel of the rim and it will free up space. See the cushcore install video for what I mean, I timed myself the other day and got my tires set up cushcores included in less than 5 min, and their methods will work without the insert.

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