Are there counterfeit DT spokes?- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Are there counterfeit DT spokes?

    I obtained a set of 32 used DT spokes. I built them up in a wheel along with 4 I had on hand. One of them broke within the first 50 miles and a second broke within the first 100 miles. Both broke in the center. You only see this type of break when there is a defect in the wire generally an inclusion. I have found several entire wheels full of spokes with this type of defect. I should mention I volunteer at the coops and have worked on hundreds of wheels. Most of the spokes with this type of defect are generic low magnetic stainless steel with no markings on the head. DT also uses a low magnetic stainless steel. If they are counterfeit I expect they come from this company. I will keep the public informed if they are any more breaks with a comment on my flickr account. https://flic.kr/p/2gC4GDL
    "Dish is illogical." Spoke of Vulcan.

  2. #2
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    It can be done but the first paragraph seems relevant to this situation.

    https://www.sheldonbrown.com/brandt/reusing-spokes.html

  3. #3
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    Spokes are one of those things that I'd never buy used.
    I brake for stinkbugs

  4. #4
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    I would not buy used spokes, period. You have no idea of their history, condition, age, etc.

    Good spokes can be had quite affordably, why deal with that headache?

    I've reused my own spokes from wheels that were less than a year old with no issues, but they were in nearly new condition and a known quantity.
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by *OneSpeed* View Post
    I've reused my own spokes from wheels that were less than a year old with no issues, but they were in nearly new condition and a known quantity.


    Yeah I've reused my own several times but I wouldn't buy them from someone I didn't know.

    Also weird that of all the broken spokes I've seen or fixed I can't remember seeing any broken in the middle except for wheels that were subject to some sort of catastrophic event.
    I brake for stinkbugs

  6. #6
    Hitching a ride
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    I re-used some Aerolites from a second hand ebay wheelset on a 27.5 2x build. Worked fine. I tossed out the spokes that were gouged, about half a dozen.

  7. #7
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    I've broken real DT spokes in the middle a bunch of times...they were not counterfeit...

    Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

  8. #8
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    A picture of the break is not helpful at all, asking about counterfeit product. Post a pic of the head/threads.

  9. #9
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    I have broken two more spokes. As requested I photographed the heads. https://flic.kr/p/2gTCD9P
    "Dish is illogical." Spoke of Vulcan.

  10. #10
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    You lost me with this thread...

    Spokes are very cheap, just buy new ones and move on. You're spending more time in this thread by asking to troubleshoot used spokes and making statements that have no value, than just getting new spokes, doing the wheel build right and riding your bike.

    What's next, you're going to say used nipples are counterfeit too? And used tires don't have the proper thread?

  11. #11
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    FWIW I just went out to my garage and looked at 5-6 DT spokes I have from reputable sources, are new, and spares from several wheel builds.

    Some of the spokes have a very clean/clear DT stamp and there is one that looks similar to the right-hand spoke head in your second photo.

    The rest are somewhere in between those two points in terms of stamp clarity so while it is possible that there could be DT counterfeit spokes out there I think it is more likely that used spokes are the culprit.

    All of the DT spokes (2-3 maybe) I have had break over the years have broken in the middle thinner section so that isn't unusual I think.

  12. #12
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    The DT stamp on mine are more like the right-hand spoke head you show - square D with a T bisecting it.

    Can't speak to how often DT changes the stamp or if they had X stamp for Y years and switched to the square D looking stamp.

  13. #13
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    There are counterfeit everything, so spokes would definitely be faked. If someone can make a buck they most certainly will and most certainly do sell them. China and other asian countries, that is an industry into themselves, Counterfeit products, everything from fake vehicles rims, to fake brake pads, to entire stores that are faked.

  14. #14
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    Did DT ever use the LH stamping? I couldn't tell you, but--the machinery that does it is stupendously expensive, and I doubt they would have changed it.

    See this chart of spoke head brandings: Spoke Head Identification Chart

    That said, even "counterfeit" spokes should work fine, unless they are made from cheap metal...you can only screw up extruding steel wire so many ways. When you add butting/blading, more can go wrong, but that's a moot point, here.

    An aside: magnetism of spokes is low if they are made of stainless, anyway, due to the manufacturing process. Pretty much any spoke that IS highly magnetic is made of plain (galvanized) steel.

  15. #15
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    China has an interesting relationship to intellectual property laws so one could setup a fake spoke manufacturing operation but the challenge would be to get uptake somewhere for those fake spokes and that would only leave less than reputable parties as the market for those fake spokes.

    Doesn't seem to be much money to be made there compared to other knock-offs to be honest.

    An interesting read is Poorly Made in China by Paul Midler - https://www.amazon.com/Poorly-Made-C...gateway&sr=8-2

    The book doesn't demonize China but looks more at the give and take of a manufacturer wanting to make additional bucks by making things in China and the cultural and real politik side of doing that in China.

    Doesn't help the OP but in my book Occam's Razor says that the simplest explanation is clapped out spokes versus Dee Tee Swass - almost as good but less expensive! - which is possible but seems improbable.

    Another example would be Chinese made DT compatible star ratchets. Very similar, might be the same factory (or not), and there is a thread under Drivetrain about people using these with mostly positive results.

    I guess the meta there is what constitutes a brand if manufacturing is allocated out to third parties (see rims, Carbon or frames, Carbon) and buying XYZ Inc versus Wazzou Corp are the same product with different price points versus me selling you a non-legit knock-off designed to look and feel like the real deal without the work and actual manufacturing equivalency.

  16. #16
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    I have now seen the same breaks in a set of DT Swiss 2.0 wheels. I can now state that counter fit spokes exist and are being made in Asia or DT chose to use an inferior steel in their spokes.
    "Dish is illogical." Spoke of Vulcan.

  17. #17
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    Used spokes pose the same risks as used condoms. You just donít know what you are getting.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  18. #18
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    If you want cheap spokes, just buy the CN brand spokes. I haven't managed to break a 424 yet.

  19. #19
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    Here is a new photo of DT spokes failing in the middle. https://flic.kr/p/2hxWcRb
    "Dish is illogical." Spoke of Vulcan.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by zerodish View Post
    . I can now state that counter fit spokes exist and are being made in Asia or DT chose to use an inferior steel in their spokes.
    No you cannot say that without evidence

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by zerodish View Post
    Here is a new photo of DT spokes failing in the middle. https://flic.kr/p/2hxWcRb
    Get over it, you used, used spokes. Go buy new spokes and don't tighten them so tight.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by zerodish View Post
    Here is a new photo of DT spokes failing in the middle. https://flic.kr/p/2hxWcRb
    I feel your pain
    https://forums.mtbr.com/california-n...t-1059221.html

  23. #23
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    I've had multiple bulk boxes of 14g DT spokes that were marked "Country of origin: US". I also got one box, last year "Country of origin: CH". There was an audible difference when the spokes were cut on our spoke machine. A nice ping on the US spokes, and just a mush sound on the CH ones. We ended up sending them back.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Black Squirrel View Post
    I also got one box, last year "Country of origin: CH". There was an audible difference when the spokes were cut on our spoke machine. A nice ping on the US spokes, and just a mush sound on the CH ones. We ended up sending them back.
    Do you work at a bike shop? Were the spokes ordered through a distributor?
    Rigid SS 29er
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    Stop asking how much it weighs and just go ride it.

  25. #25
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    Yes, and they replaced them no questions. The replacements, and every box since were US spokes.

  26. #26
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    I thought they were Swiss made. I thought Wheelsmith spokes were the only steel spokes made in the USA?

    Even a quick Google search shows they're made in Switzerland. Do you know of any US production?
    Rigid SS 29er
    SS 29+
    Fat Lefty
    SS cyclocross
    Full Sus 29er (Yuck)

    Stop asking how much it weighs and just go ride it.

  27. #27
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    The 14g straight spokes, "champion" say made in USA on the small boxes (72 or 100 pack).

    Butted spoke boxes say Swiss made.

    The 500 spoke bulk boxes of the straight gauge spokes have the country of origin sticker that I was referring to.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Black Squirrel View Post
    The 14g straight spokes, "champion" say made in USA on the small boxes (72 or 100 pack).

    Butted spoke boxes say Swiss made.

    The 500 spoke bulk boxes of the straight gauge spokes have the country of origin sticker that I was referring to.
    Interesting, thanks.
    Rigid SS 29er
    SS 29+
    Fat Lefty
    SS cyclocross
    Full Sus 29er (Yuck)

    Stop asking how much it weighs and just go ride it.

  29. #29
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    Ok and what are you saying here? CH is the country code for Switzerland. If their spokes were bad it was a bad batch, not a re-labelled Chinese spoke.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schulze View Post
    Ok and what are you saying here? CH is the country code for Switzerland. If their spokes were bad it was a bad batch, not a re-labelled Chinese spoke.
    That's good to know. I wasn't implying anything, just sharing an experience. The spokes were probably fine, we just opted to send them back. I didn't build any wheels with them.

  31. #31
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    How much did OP pay for said used spokes?

    I buy 64 spokes from my Ebay guy any length and always perfect for 54 bucks.

    You also need to be the guy that disassembles the wheel to get the spokes. They need to back on the wheel the same way they came out. NDS outer, NDS inner, DS inner, DS outer. That's the only way or you will get broken spokes for sure. I really only will re use spokes if I'm changing a hub in a wheel for myself or my son. Customers always get new.
    I like turtles

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