Tension issue with wheel build- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Tension issue with wheel build

    I'm going to build a new bike and decided it is time to learn how to build my own wheels.

    I'm building my front wheel, it is a Velocity Blunt 35 with Hope Pro2 Evo hub, and double butted spokes.

    As I was tightening things up, I was checking true, dish, and roundness, and got everything dialed in nicely. I even set it up tubeless and took it for a spin, doing a bunch of bunny hops, and the wheel stayed true.

    I had ordered a spoke tension meter, but it had not arrived by the time I did this. Once it arrived, I checked the spoke tension. Velocity says their rims should be 110-130 kgf. On my wheel, the brake rotor side was 120 kgf, and the other side was around 70 kgf (all spokes on each side were consistent tension). A friend told me that was too low and there shouldn't be that much of a difference on a front wheel. I then played with the tension some more, but I can't get the dish where it needs to be unless the tension is drastically different each side. Right now, I have the rotor side at around 160 kgf and the other side at 100 kgf, and it's still out of dish.

    What should I do at this point? Do I need to order a different type of spoke for one side? Is this a symptom of doing something incorrectly? Thanks in advance for any help or advice!

  2. #2
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    Your tension was perfect before you took your friend's bad advice.
    DS (drive side) tension on the front and NDS tension on the rear is a function of the hub geometry. You set the disc side front and drive side rear to spec and the other side is what it is when the wheel is dished correctly.

    A convenient indicator of what the tension difference should be with a perfectly dished wheel is the ratio of the flange offsets.
    For a Hope Pro 2 Evo that's:
    19.5/34 = 0.57 = 57%
    120kgf * 0.57 = 68.8 kgf

    You were dead on before.

    160kgf is WAY too high.

    Get your tension back to what it was and tell your friend he owes you a 12-pack for sending you on a wild goose chase without knowing what he's talking about.
    Quote Originally Posted by pvd
    Time to stop believing the hype and start doing some science.
    29er Tire Weight Database

  3. #3
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    Re: Tension issue with wheel build

    ^ This.
    A few people here give m.f. a hard time for correcting them, but the fact is bad information causes big problems. If you don't know the answer it's always better to just say so rather than making shiite up. :sly:

    Something I learned from my father - "most people are wrong about most things most of the time".

    Back to the show..

    (tapa)

  4. #4
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    Thank you so much! Shouldn't be too hard to get it back to where it was. Even though it was a wild goose chase, it helped me learn more about wheelbuilding in the end. Thanks!

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stormwalker View Post
    Thank you so much! Shouldn't be too hard to get it back to where it was. Even though it was a wild goose chase, it helped me learn more about wheelbuilding in the end. Thanks!
    way to look on the bright side!

    and I learned something from it too....

  6. #6
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    I have another question related to this wheel build.

    When I ordered spokes, the calculator said to get (in mm) 289 left / 291 right in front. For the rear it was 290 both sides.

    I adjusted the front wheel where it needed to be after reading this thread, and have taken a couple of rides on it, it rides nice, stayed true, no noises or anything, tension has stayed perfect, even did a couple of decent drops on it. I'm really liking it!

    Tonight, I sat down to do my rear wheel build. I inadvertently grabbed the 290mm spokes to build the front wheel!

    Does this mean I need to tear down my front wheel and rebuild it?

  7. #7
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    Re: Tension issue with wheel build

    IME No need to rebuild if using spokes within 1-2mm of spec. Even with alu nips, and being 210# I've not had any issues.

    (tapa)

  8. #8
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    I was wondering this same exact thing!

    On my rear wheel build the difference between the DS and NDS tension came to 50kfg. That seems like a significant amount. But in order to maintain the proper dishing, the rear DS tension determines the NDS tension.

    Interesting that I got the same 50kgf difference just like the OP. I'm using Derby rims, I9 Torch hubs, and CX Ray spokes, 3x lacing.
    We Ride In God's Country!

  9. #9
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    Tension issue with wheel build

    Quote Originally Posted by myitch View Post
    Interesting that I got the same 50kgf difference just like the OP. I'm using Derby rims, I9 Torch hubs, and CX Ray spokes, 3x lacing.
    It's the ratio of tension that is constant, not the difference in kgf.
    Many hubs have similar geometry. Your Torch offset ratio is:
    21.4/34.6 = 61.8%
    For a 50kgf difference left to right your DS tension is ~130kgf
    However, these calcs are far more precise than anyone's ability to measure tension, so they're all just roundabout numbers.
    Quote Originally Posted by pvd
    Time to stop believing the hype and start doing some science.
    29er Tire Weight Database

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by meltingfeather View Post
    It's the ratio of tension that is constant, not the difference in kgf.
    Many hubs have similar geometry. Your Torch offset ratio is:
    21.4/34.6 = 61.8%
    For a 50kgf difference left to right your DS tension is ~130kgf
    However, these calcs are far more precise than anyone's ability to measure tension, so they're all just roundabout numbers.
    Great info. Thanks. So my DS tension is spot on at 1 30 kgf. My NDS tension is 75kfg. I wasa bit nervous about such low tension there but it should be OK then? Is gonna have to be since this maintains the proper dish
    We Ride In God's Country!

  11. #11
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    Late to the party, but...

    If you really hate tension disparity that much, you can purposely leave your wheel with a little dish.

  12. #12
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    Yeah, MF can be a bit anal with the numbers, but he seems to have it down pact Never will get a same tension on both sides wheel unless you build a dishless setup and that would require either a 150mm full freehub or 135mm SS/short freehub hub for the rear and 135mm for the front and only fat bikes use 135mm front, the rear is possible on todays MTBs. I do take advantage of the dishless wheel build as it builds stronger obviously with tension on both sides being equal, or nearly equal depending on the hub flanges, right now use an 135mm wide SS/Trials Hope Pro2 hub and run 6 cogs, but planning on moving to a 150mm rear so I can run a full cassette - thanks to forward thinking design, my frame will take any of the current drop out sizes available


    Little OT question - for those building carbon rimmed wheels, is it necessary to use nipples like the DT Swiss Pro Locks to keep the tension for backing off due to maybe what I think could be more vibration/feedback from the carbon? Have 3 rear Roval wheels needing rim replacement and can only find the DT Swoss Pro Locks in 2.0 size, not 1.8 like the spokes need.
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold
    You're doing mtbr wrong, you're supposed to get increasingly offended by the implications that you're doing ANYTHING wrong.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx View Post
    Little OT question - for those building carbon rimmed wheels, is it necessary to use nipples like the DT Swiss Pro Locks to keep the tension for backing off due to maybe what I think could be more vibration/feedback from the carbon? Have 3 rear Roval wheels needing rim replacement and can only find the DT Swoss Pro Locks in 2.0 size, not 1.8 like the spokes need.
    In theory, the answer is no. Spoke nipple have the chance to turn when the spoke goes slack. But carbon rims are stiffer, so they distribute the load better, so the chance of spoke loosening is lower. With that said, it wouldn't hurt to use the Pro locks anyway, except that it would make future truing a bit harder, generates more spoke wind-up, and covers up a poor wheel build.

  14. #14
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    Did ya’ll see the special intro pricing at low low price of $499?

    While its better than the Equip-D Double, its still $150 more than the original.

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