Super Inner Tube = No more more Flat Tires- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1

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    Super Inner Tube = No more more Flat Tires

    Hello all, I'm new upon this here MTB website and wanted to say hello to yaul!

    I wanted to get some feedback on the never ending subject of flat tires and ask why it is the bike industry doesn't fully address the problems with flat tires?Why isn't any major brand tire company making a better puncture resistant inner tube. I mean give me a break, the crappy butyl rubber inner tube cost only a few dollars and don't do a good job of holding up.

    -why doesnt a company like Specialized, Maxxis, Tioga, or any other Tire maker work with a company like 3M or Dupont to develop some sort of advanced material/more durable and puncture resistant inner tube? I would pay $50 bucks, even $75 bucks for a super tube.

    - i have a flat resistant set up that I use on one of my bikes- specialized armadillo or flak jack tires and Mr tuffy liners, however this has a undesired extra weight penalty that i don't want on my race bike.

    - I've all ready done the tubeless and I'm not going the tubeless or Stan's no tube set up route.


    Give me a break, all the new bike technology coming out every year and the bicycle industry is not addressing the big est single problem in cycling "flat tires and the crappy butyl rubber inner tube!

    Thanks in advance,

    Byronious
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  2. #2
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    Well, I think enough riders are converting and have converted to tubeless with tubeless tires and sealant getting better and better. I used to run tubes for years and don't feel the need to run a tube setup again. There may be little financial benefit to developing a light, puncture-resistant tube that is as resistant to thorns and pinch-flats as a tubeless setup.

  3. #3

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    Give me a break, all the new bike technology coming out every year and the bicycle industry is not addressing the big est single problem in cycling "flat tires and the crappy butyl rubber inner tube!
    I agree. We need FEDERALLY MANDATED improvements in tire technology. Our children are being injured by substandard tires and inner tubes that haven't been changed since the early 1900's. Bicycle manufacturers and Big Tire companies have been making obscene amounts of profit, and keeping all the money for themselves!

    Let's give them four years to produce a flat-free bicycle tire, or impose a stiff "anti-inflation" tax on the producers.

    No, wait! Let's impose a tax RIGHT NOW!

  4. #4
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    I've all ready done the tubeless and I'm not going the tubeless or Stan's no tube set up route
    I'm not completely sure what you mean by this, but tubes are for suckers Seriously, UST rims+UST tires+stans is virtually flat proof.
    Last edited by Jwind; 11-27-2006 at 12:32 PM.

  5. #5
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    Tubes are the biggest seller in Bike shops with the highest profit margin. Why would anyone want to fix that?

    This is sort of like asking "Why don't your light turn off when you remove the key from your ignition?" Battery sales would die!

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnnycrash
    Hello all, I'm new upon this here MTB website and wanted to say hello to yaul!

    I wanted to get some feedback on the never ending subject of flat tires and ask why it is the bike industry doesn't fully address the problems with flat tires?Why isn't any major brand tire company making a better puncture resistant inner tube. I mean give me a break, the crappy butyl rubber inner tube cost only a few dollars and don't do a good job of holding up.

    -why doesnt a company like Specialized, Maxxis, Tioga, or any other Tire maker work with a company like 3M or Dupont to develop some sort of advanced material/more durable and puncture resistant inner tube? I would pay $50 bucks, even $75 bucks for a super tube.

    - i have a flat resistant set up that I use on one of my bikes- specialized armadillo or flak jack tires and Mr tuffy liners, however this has a undesired extra weight penalty that i don't want on my race bike.

    - I've all ready done the tubeless and I'm not going the tubeless or Stan's no tube set up route.


    Give me a break, all the new bike technology coming out every year and the bicycle industry is not addressing the big est single problem in cycling "flat tires and the crappy butyl rubber inner tube!

    Thanks in advance,

    Byronious
    www.biketeacher.com
    www.notoriousbyronious.com
    www.byronfriday.blogspot.com
    www.gotbmx.com
    www.bmxclub.com
    www.livefastdieyoung.net
    http://giveustheramps.blogspot.com/
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    www.fattireflyer.com
    They can not do it with Formula 1 race tires (tubeless, though) using an unlimited budget. What makes you think it can be done for bike tires?

    Several companies have produced "super tubes" in the past. There was a polyurethane tube: Hard to puncture, not too heavy, rode like a rock, expensive. Did not sell and was dropped.
    Hutchinson had their Green Tube: Thick, flexible, more puncture resistant, heavy and expensive. Did not sell well and was dropped (I think) after they went UST.

    There have been others, but the bottom line has always been the lowly butyl inner tube gives the best overall performance, light weight and usability at a cost consumers are willing to pay. The tubeless systems are are only just catching up.

    Not saying it can not be done but the R&D is going toward tubeless systems (like nearly every other pneumatic tire vehicle). Most UST tires already will let you finish a ride if they have thorns in them, unlike most tubes.
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by shiggy
    They can not do it with Formula 1 race tires (tubeless, though) using an unlimited budget. What makes you think it can be done for bike tires?

    Several companies have produced "super tubes" in the past. There was a polyurethane tube: Hard to puncture, not too heavy, rode like a rock, expensive. Did not sell and was dropped.
    Hutchinson had their Green Tube: Thick, flexible, more puncture resistant, heavy and expensive. Did not sell well and was dropped (I think) after they went UST.

    There have been others, but the bottom line has always been the lowly butyl inner tube gives the best overall performance, light weight and usability at a cost consumers are willing to pay. The tubeless systems are are only just catching up.

    Not saying it can not be done but the R&D is going toward tubeless systems (like nearly every other pneumatic tire vehicle). Most UST tires already will let you finish a ride if they have thorns in them, unlike most tubes.
    Where the analogy breaks down is that, with vehicles, you fix a flat on the road with a spare wheel and the puncture is repaired at a tire shop. With a bike, you can't carry a spare wheel so you have to be able to do the repair out in the field. Hard to remove and inflate tubeless tires are a pain. Inflating a Stan's system on the trail without an air compressor is near impossible.

    I think they can do more to make tires more thorn resistant. The only flats I get are from goat heads with a rare pinch flat. I even went to Slime for a while until the goat head threat subsided.

  8. #8

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    If there is demand, there is supply.

    If not, put up your own money and let the free market decide.
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  9. #9
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    You also have to take into account that it's our requirements for lightweight tires that contribute to frequent flats. My first mtb (an entry level bike about 15 years ago) had big heavy-ass tires on it and I never got a single flat. When I upgraded to a better bike (with lighter weight tires) I got a flat on my first ride (just a quick spin on my local bike path to test the brand new bike out so I didn't take the time to bring a pump or patch kit and subsequently had an 8-mile walk home).

    They can make puncture resistant tires, we just don't buy them because we won't sacrifice the performance. As far as tubes go, I have had better luck with the cheap heavy ones.

    But I have to say, it's sometimes not such a bad thing doing an occasional quick trail repair of a flat. The aggravation of losing time having to stop and fix the flat gets your adrenaline pumping and when you get back on the bike you take off like a rocket and it feels sooooooo good to be rolling again.

  10. #10
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    first ride on my new prophet, I hit a "four-wheeler trap"... a peice of 3/4" rebar driven in the ground and sharpened to a point..big hole in a brand new ignitor and the tube was foobarred..I am just glad I run tubes and had a spare...if all we had were little thorns, I would consider tubless, or even hope for a flat resistant tire, but these people 'round here have to protect their crops..if you know what I mean
    " No! try not, Do or do not. There is no try. "

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by IndecentExposure
    Tubes are the biggest seller in Bike shops with the highest profit margin. Why would anyone want to fix that?

    This is sort of like asking "Why don't your light turn off when you remove the key from your ignition?" Battery sales would die!
    <---works for a bike store.

    You are wrong buddy. It's all about accessories:bags, helmets, appearel. Between customers *****ing about our tubes and us giving them away to shut them up and *****ing about the price of a "pieace of rubber" we don't make squat on tubes.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by atvsmurf
    first ride on my new prophet, I hit a "four-wheeler trap"... a peice of 3/4" rebar driven in the ground and sharpened to a point..big hole in a brand new ignitor and the tube was foobarred..I am just glad I run tubes and had a spare...if all we had were little thorns, I would consider tubless, or even hope for a flat resistant tire, but these people 'round here have to protect their crops..if you know what I mean
    Except, you can put a tube in a UST tire in the case you just described, which makes your point moot.

    Chances are, if you gash a hole so big that your sealant won't fix it, than a tube isn't going to last very long at all.

  13. #13
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    Haven't any of you read the latest issue of Dirt Rag?

    The Ol' Coot was given some standard tubes that had been injected with 2 oz of Stan's sealant. These were Continental tubes with removeable stem innards. I've never seen them but ok, I guess they exist. Anyway, some guy removed the stem innards (presta), injected the Stan's in throught the stem and then replaced the innards. Ol' Coot ran them all summer without a single flat. Cheap, easy and nothing special, other than those tubes.

    Now watch the sales of Continental tubes skyrocket.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by RickC5
    The Ol' Coot was given some standard tubes that had been injected with 2 oz of Stan's sealant. These were Continental tubes with removeable stem innards. I've never seen them but ok, I guess they exist. Anyway, some guy removed the stem innards (presta), injected the Stan's in throught the stem and then replaced the innards. Ol' Coot ran them all summer without a single flat. Cheap, easy and nothing special, other than those tubes.

    Now watch the sales of Continental tubes skyrocket.
    That's exactly what I was going to post! I did that all season on my freeride bike, but with Vittoria tubes. They don't work for pinch flats (not surprising) but for punctures, they're great. Cheap, easy to use, not very messy, light enough for most people.

    I run Stan's on my race bike though, since it's a bunch lighter.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeDee
    Where the analogy breaks down is that, with vehicles, you fix a flat on the road with a spare wheel and the puncture is repaired at a tire shop. With a bike, you can't carry a spare wheel so you have to be able to do the repair out in the field. Hard to remove and inflate tubeless tires are a pain. Inflating a Stan's system on the trail without an air compressor is near impossible.

    I think they can do more to make tires more thorn resistant. The only flats I get are from goat heads with a rare pinch flat. I even went to Slime for a while until the goat head threat subsided.

    I'll chime in -- since y'all seem to be having a fun time. I've been riding mountain bikes for 20 years now. Several years ago when Stans entered the market I was the first one to try it at my LBS. I hated it, it burped air at bad times and it basically scared the crap out of me to ride hard with the conversion set-up.

    Towards the end of August 2005 I bought some Fire XC Pro UST tires (with Stans) to go on my Race Lite Tubeless wheelset. Five miles into my first ride I cut the rear side wall so bad I had to use a tube patch and a standard tube to finish the rest of my 20 mile ride. Then guess what? I didn't have another flat for 14 months (or 1100 offroad miles). I posted a photo of my rear tire after several rides through Cholla infested trails a few weeks ago. My second and last flat was a couple of weeks ago when I neglected to pump my front tire up to the normal 36psi for a ride and under a heavy load on exposed rock it broke the seal at the bead and the air blew out. Both incidents in the 14 month period were easily remedied on the trail. Having an Ultraflate and a few bb gun cartridges (make sure your bead is properly cleaned of debris and ready to snap into the wheel groove) and I was ready to go in less than three minutes.

    I'm on my third set of Fire XC Pros (one Nevagal in the mix for a while as well) and I'll never go back to the lowly inner tube. I'll gladly accept the extra 150 grams per tire to be rid of tubes. I have never had a year with only two flat tires and wouldn't have if I was still running tubed tires. Sure I haven't had a lot of experience with remounting a UST tires in the field (only once and my Ultraflate made easy work of it), but that is my point.

    There you have it. I love USTs with Stans. Goatheads, cholla and pinchflats are a thing of the past. Sure there are always extrordinary events that will cause a failure in any mountain bike tire -- but I've had a lot fewer since I've gone to UST.

    mbb

  16. #16

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    Hey guys, my LBS has these liners that are puncture resistant, I mean really puncture resistant. I tried putting a key through it and it was difficult. Anyway, they line the inner tire to protect the tube. Anyone have any experience with it?

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by jamisguy
    Hey guys, my LBS has these liners that are puncture resistant, I mean really puncture resistant. I tried putting a key through it and it was difficult. Anyway, they line the inner tire to protect the tube. Anyone have any experience with it?
    How hard is it to push a key through a tire?

    Try sticking a push pin through that tire liner. It is much closer to a thorn than a key.
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  18. #18

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    The first thing that went wrong on my bike was the thorns putting small holes in my tube/tire.

    Since going to thicker tubes and putting those liners in it's never gave me an issue and my buddy was plagued by it twice before giving in and going with thicker tubes and liners.

    It adds some noticable rolling weight to the bike but I got over it.

    I was going down the road two weeks ago and heard a noise that sounded like a click every revolution of the tire. When I stopped and looked it was an actual thumb tack stuck in my tire but it wasn't sitting flush it was sticking out even with all my weight on it.

    I pulled it out thinking the tire was going deflate and nothing. Same tire and tube still going strong. Don't know if it was dumb luck or if the thicker tube/liner setup had something to do with it.

  19. #19

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    As the above thread states "Super Inner Tube = No more more Flat Tires " I wish there were such a thing. The only way thats ganna happen is you use a SOLID tire no air, no tube just a solid tire. As alot of the replies posted there are a few nice puncture resistant items out on the market. But no flat proof.

  20. #20
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    You can remove the stem on (almost) any presta. You just have to be crafty. ;-)

    Regarding the "crappy butyl tubes," I run one oz. of True Goo on my cheap Summit 29er tubes here in the desert. 6" off the trails here, and you're into prickly pear and goatheads. Its flat city here, but in almost two years, I haven't had a single flat on the 29er. Part of it I attribute to the Goo in the tube. There are a couple of other things.

    - Check your air pressure every time you ride. EVERY TIME. Buy a good floor pump. If you're willing to drop 50 on a tube, drop 40 on a floor pump.

    - Watch where you put your bike during a break on the trail. If you place it into a patch of something nasty and pull it out with two flat tires, well dude....its all you and not the tube.

    - "I don't know, I get A LOT of flats." - Customer
    Minutes later, I'm behind him on the trail watching him run as hard as he can into rock steps and roots, using no skill whatsoever to get over it. If you ride like a jackass, expect the flats.

    - Find what's best for you region/riding style. Here in the desert we run all year with no flats. Admittedly, we're big on WTB tires (solid tires and especially sidewalls) and tubes with Goo in them. I don't mind the extra weight, its proven to be secure for me here crossing sticker ridden trails and crossings, and broken bottle parking lots. Extra tubes? I like having a spare tube or two in the pack. You run tubeless? Right on. I know hundreds of happy UST users. Stans? I haven't tried it, I think I'll have to on my next project bike everyone speaks so highly of it. Be open to try new things. You never know.

    There are practical solutions out there. Super tubes aren't the answer. I remember the rage of foam inner tubes. Never again.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jwind
    Except, you can put a tube in a UST tire in the case you just described, which makes your point moot.

    Chances are, if you gash a hole so big that your sealant won't fix it, than a tube isn't going to last very long at all.
    Except you can patch the three corner, 3/4 long gash in the tire with a regular patch, then the tube will hold it in place when aired up, just as in the case I described which makes your point moot.

    Seriously, man everytime someone tells their thoughts on here someone else has to try to tear it to shreds. Is that an attempt to get their post numbers up, or is it someones feeble attempt to entice others to hop on a tubless bandwagon with them and shun those people who still find tubes in a tire to be quite adequate. If you want tubeless, hey go for it, but don't call people who won't a sucker...
    Last edited by atvsmurf; 11-29-2006 at 05:54 AM.
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  22. #22
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    tubes suck that's why, tubeless is the future...

  23. #23

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    Ok then !! I got a pair of walmart " air tight" tubes and havnt got a flat yet ..Although i only have 250 miles on my G/T. Most of the miles are all hard core trail riding with IRC mythos XC tires. But i also keep the tire psi a bit soft which in my opinion helps prevent flats Rather than setting the tire psi @ a max psi.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rainier

    Regarding the "crappy butyl tubes," I run one oz. of True Goo on my cheap Summit 29er tubes here in the desert. 6" off the trails here, and you're into prickly pear and goatheads. Its flat city here, but in almost two years, I haven't had a single flat on the 29er. Part of it I attribute to the Goo in the tube. There are a couple of other things.

    - Check your air pressure every time you ride. EVERY TIME.

    - Watch where you put your bike during a break on the trail. If you place it into a patch of something nasty and pull it out with two flat tires, well dude....its all you and not the tube.

    - "I don't know, I get A LOT of flats." - Customer
    Minutes later, I'm behind him on the trail watching him run as hard as he can into rock steps and roots, using no skill whatsoever to get over it. If you ride like a jackass, expect the flats.

    -(solid tires and especially sidewalls) and tubes with Goo in them. I don't mind the extra weight, its proven to be secure for me here crossing sticker ridden trails and crossings, and broken bottle parking lots. Extra tubes? I like having a spare tube

    There are practical solutions out there. Super tubes aren't the answer.

    Good advice right there.

    I used to run a few oz. of slime in heavy duty cheapo tubes , a liner and alot of air on my bike. I spent alot of time on 20" bikes running 100+psi so the feed back you get with higher psi doesn't bother me like it does most.
    Rarely would i get a flat but alot of people i rode with would always get them. The main cause was running to low of pressure. Sure they had more traction and lighter wheels but that doesn't help any when you have to stop and fix a flat.

    btw, picked up a set of lite folding tires....haven't ridden on them but i'm not real comfy after handling em (first set).
    Looking for old 2 bend Answer Hyper Ends and mounting bracket/wire/sensor for a old Trek Sensor computer, heavy springs for 2000 magnum fork also. For Sale- black ano. grafton/topline mtb cranks....make offer.

  25. #25
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    I'm with ya on the super tube concept, surely there is a better compound out there

    Maybe do some net research on rubbers (im guessing synthetic) and plastics. If a compound with the desired properties exsits theres a company looking for applications. Send your findings to some mtb company R & D departments

  26. #26
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    Try this!

    You guys might try to google "tweel".

    It's been tried for cars and bicycles. There was an article about some German engineer who is a bike fan and now tries to adopt this car thing to bicycles - which is difficult since it first worked with car radial tubeless tires. Bike tires are not radial so there is still work to do.

    Downsides: You will have to buy tire-rim combos. And lacing them rims up will be quite difficult.

    tweel.jpg


    Oh and have a look at:

    http://www.airfreetires.com/
    Last edited by Pooh Bear; 11-29-2006 at 12:59 AM.

  27. #27
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    How about some of those "Mr. Tuffy" tire liner thingys? I've never used them myself and I hear they're pretty heavy but worth a try I guess if you're really bothered by flats.

    I get more then my share of flats (thorney around here!) and I've just learned to accept it as a part of riding. I buy 10 packs of tubes so I get them for 2 bucks a piece or so and sometimes I patch them if the hole isn't too big...no sweat.

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  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnnycrash
    1). What the heck is up with posting a reply as a graphic of the text?

    2). You just changed the rules on what you are looking for in "flat-proof." You started by wanting puncture-proof tubes that do not add weight to your race bike.

    Now you bring up preventing flats on everyday commuter bikes.

    They have very different requirements and limitations - or reduced limitations in the latter case.

    There are already many ways to greatly reduce flats without new technologies. The shops can make more if they step up and offer packages for commuters and casual riders that are more concerned about reliability than race-type performance.

    And SuperGo went.
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  30. #30
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    nice work

    Quote Originally Posted by doctorpunch
    <---works for a bike store.

    You are wrong buddy. It's all about accessories:bags, helmets, appearel. Between customers *****ing about our tubes and us giving them away to shut them up and *****ing about the price of a "pieace of rubber" we don't make squat on tubes.

    Does your boss know you are dissing your customers on a site where your comments will deter business from your source of income in an already cutthroat market?
    Nice job assweed. You dont make squat because your employer made the mistake of hiring you, and allowing you to reference his business in your subtitle with dumbass comments like..well... see above.
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  31. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by shiggy
    1). What the heck is up with posting a reply as a graphic of the text?

    2). You just changed the rules on what you are looking for in "flat-proof." You started by wanting puncture-proof tubes that do not add weight to your race bike.

    Now you bring up preventing flats on everyday commuter bikes.

    They have very different requirements and limitations - or reduced limitations in the latter case.

    There are already many ways to greatly reduce flats without new technologies. The shops can make more if they step up and offer packages for commuters and casual riders that are more concerned about reliability than race-type performance.

    And SuperGo went.
    Typed most of my post here, left my computer, came back and finished up my post and I got a error message. I wasnt going to retype my whole post so I just posted as a graphic.

    I should have started a second thread, sorry If I hyjacked and side tracked.

    Yes "There are already many ways to greatly reduce flats without new technologies." but some shops dont offer to the consumer at the time of the sale and dont spend the time to educate the customer as well as they could.

    I'm taking the side of the consumer here ( I've worked both at a bike shop and manufacture/distributor) Mr Tuffy = band aid, Slim = band aid.

    Lets say i just purchased a a new Specialized S Works road bike with full dura ace, even if I make sure I get kevlar belted tires, say specialized flak jak, I'm still riding on $5.00 tubes and still going to be flatting on a regular basis.

    My observation is- i just paid 5 or 6 grand for an almost awesome bike and all you can offer be is a $5.00 tube. All the new technollogy released at interbike every year...

    Between myself, my girl friend, both road bike and mtb, we go though 20 to 30 tubes
    a year, then add the quick fills/CO2s = a pain in the ass! I would gladley pay $75 bucks for a super anti flat or anti pich flat tube.

    My bikes all have great wheel sets, so I dont want to buy new Tubeless wheel sets.

    I know how to assemable a flat resistant set up using, mr tuffys (another band aid and marginal product) and I could get stans sealant (if i can find a tube with removable valve) slim tubes are marginal, but its kind of retarded that all the industry is willing to do to address the problem is tell the consumer to use a couple of band aids.

    i may seem over the top with the demands, I just feel that the current state of the union with inner tube technolgy is 100% bogus.... its stupid! Yes, i may apear to be a nag!


    sorry the spell checking is not working and no time 2 deal with it.

    I appreciate the imput, ideas, opinions and thoughts from all side on this thread

  32. #32
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    yep, mr tuffy sucks too, goatheads eat them up and the ones i tried passed several even wimpier thorns so those were next to useless where i ride:



    kevlar works, for a little while, until it gets brittle. it just isn't a material that can flex as much as needed in an MTB tire application, but maybe it's a solution for tubeless road tires? i don't really know though i dont do the road thing

    i agree, it sure would be nice to see a material invented that would give you a nice lightweight tubeless tire with a perfect seal and no pressure loss, puncture resistance, and sidewall protection, completely eliminating the need to carry extra tubes, a pump, patch kit, and sealant.

    we are indeed still a primitive people...

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnnycrash
    Typed most of my post here, left my computer, came back and finished up my post and I got a error message. I wasnt going to retype my whole post so I just posted as a graphic.

    I should have started a second thread, sorry If I hyjacked and side tracked.

    Yes "There are already many ways to greatly reduce flats without new technologies." but some shops dont offer to the consumer at the time of the sale and dont spend the time to educate the customer as well as they could.

    I'm taking the side of the consumer here ( I've worked both at a bike shop and manufacture/distributor) Mr Tuffy = band aid, Slim = band aid.

    Lets say i just purchased a a new Specialized S Works road bike with full dura ace, even if I make sure I get kevlar belted tires, say specialized flak jak, I'm still riding on $5.00 tubes and still going to be flatting on a regular basis.

    My observation is- i just paid 5 or 6 grand for an almost awesome bike and all you can offer be is a $5.00 tube. All the new technollogy released at interbike every year...

    Between myself, my girl friend, both road bike and mtb, we go though 20 to 30 tubes
    a year, then add the quick fills/CO2s = a pain in the ass! I would gladley pay $75 bucks for a super anti flat or anti pich flat tube.

    My bikes all have great wheel sets, so I dont want to buy new Tubeless wheel sets.

    I know how to assemable a flat resistant set up using, mr tuffys (another band aid and marginal product) and I could get stans sealant (if i can find a tube with removable valve) slim tubes are marginal, but its kind of retarded that all the industry is willing to do to address the problem is tell the consumer to use a couple of band aids.

    i may seem over the top with the demands, I just feel that the current state of the union with inner tube technolgy is 100% bogus.... its stupid! Yes, i may apear to be a nag!


    sorry the spell checking is not working and no time 2 deal with it.

    I appreciate the imput, ideas, opinions and thoughts from all side on this thread
    Copy and paste still works.

    There are several brands that offer presta tubes with removable valves (though you do need to check before you buy): Schwalbe, Conti, Rubena, some Bontrager.
    mtbtires.com
    The trouble with common sense is it is no longer common

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by shiggy
    There are several brands that offer presta tubes with removable valves (though you do need to check before you buy): Schwalbe, Conti, Rubena, some Bontrager.
    Vittoria too.

  35. #35

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    What are goatheads ?

    I used Specialized Armadillo tyres - virtually puncture proof

    good wide knobbly ones - then specialized dropped them last year

  36. #36

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    What are goatheads ?
    I don't really know how they come to be (I don't know if they fall off bushes or just grow out of the ground), but one time I was walking around in the desert and I had to cross a small patch of bare ground from the pavement outside my house. As I stepped on to the dirt I was rewarded with about 50 goatheads in each bare foot. They're little thorney bastards. They have points on all sides, but the side facing up has the longest and most painful thorn. They found their way into my tires on every single ride in western colorado. They suck something awful, are very sharp and the thorn is plenty deep enough to get the tube. I would come home and there would always be a couple of them stuck in my tires, when I pulled them out I could feel or hear the air hissing out of the new hole. You kind of learn to recognize their habitat and avoid it, but they are everywhere.

    I read that Old Coot thing this month too. That's a fantastic idea. I don't suffer many puncture flats in Montana, but I'm still going to give that a try.

  37. #37
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    The holy grail?

    Super inner tubes.

    Chris Rock said it best: "there ain't no money in the cure"

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveW
    What are goatheads ?
    Goatheads are nasty thorns that are sort of triangular so they always seem to have a point facing your tire.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    功夫大师喜欢骑着他的自行车在山上。

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by GuruAtma
    Goatheads are nasty thorns that are sort of triangular so they always seem to have a point facing your tire.
    This is way OT, but where did you get that top cap in your avatar? I'm assuming it's yours... I want one.

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hardtails Are Better
    This is way OT, but where did you get that top cap in your avatar? I'm assuming it's yours... I want one.
    I got it at Purley Custom. They'll engrave any text or picture.
    功夫大师喜欢骑着他的自行车在山上。

  41. #41
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    they dont make a foam tube for bikes? for dirtbikes michelin offer the bib mousse... nothing like this for MTBs?
    RIDE

  42. #42
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    "Tubeless ready" is a great new option. I haven't run it yet but you get the weight of a tube tire, the bead connection of UST and run it with stans (which is required in goat head territory) I think this will address weight of UST and burping of tubeless conversion.

    There is inherent expense to a UST wheel because you have to have a sealed wheel which is difficult with spokes. I expect this will limit full mainstream adoption. I think it will permeate similar to slime in the upper end.

    Goatheads grow on an annual close to the ground vine. The plants are very tough. They prefer dry compact soil. The seeds are rumored to live up to 5 years before germination and they spread readily by sticking in tires, shoes and feet so they are very difficult to control. Make sure you don't throw the thorns on the ground when you find one.
    Oh sh!+ just force upgraded to cat1. Now what?
    Best thing about an ultra marathon? I just get to ride my bike for X hours!

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnnycrash
    . I mean give me a break, the crappy butyl rubber inner tube cost only a few dollars and don't do a good job of holding up.

    -why doesnt a company like Specialized, Maxxis, Tioga, or any other Tire maker work with a company like 3M or Dupont to develop some sort of advanced material/more durable and puncture resistant inner tube?
    Well those "crappy" butyl tubes punture because they are soft and flexible, which is what gives them a good ride and allows them to roll easily.

    A company......Schwinn (pre bankruptcy) did make a durable, punture resistant tube...it was made from urethane (polyurethane) and like Shiggy said, they rode like rocks. The rolling resistance was unbelievable. They made your bike feel like you were pedaling thru 8" of peanut butter.
    Wanted: broken Titec 2 bolt seatpost, any size

  44. #44
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    Is that really Byron Friday posting here? Wow, haven't heard that name in a LOOONG time. Back in my BMX days late 1970's, early 80's I believe. Did you ride a Nomura bike back in the day? Giant aluminum down tube? Maybe I'm thinking of someone else. Either way, it's cool to see someone from "back in the day" still hanging around bikes.

    I still prefer tubes to tubeless. You guys who fight thorns and prickly things forget that much of the country, or world for that matter, does NOT have that problem. I'm in the midwest, and my flats come from not enough air and pinch flats. Once a year I might get a crazy thorn that hits the tire just right to go in. I ride with sub 500 gram folding tires and 97 gram tubes too. Have been for a decade. I like being able to quickly mount my tires without worrying about popping the beads on just right, or keeping sealant handy, or anything. If I feel like swapping tires out for a race day change, then swap back the next day, I do it with ease and no mess or cost. I too would pay a good buck if a "super tube" did come out and was proven and tested to be better, but it would have to protect against pinches and sharp objects.

  45. #45

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    I tried Slime's SRT tubeless-sorta tires and they ****ing suck. No flats, but the moment I go over such things as dirt, it feels like I'm dragging my brake.

  46. #46
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    I don't understand your aversion to tubeless systems. It's one of the few solutions to a problem that has very few draw backs. The wheel is lighter; rolling resistance is decreased; flats are virtually eliminated (I've been rolling with notubes since 2003 and haven't had a flat since). It can be a pain if you're a tire sluht (which there is nothing wrong with), but if you're like me and change your tires 1-2 time a year, there really aren't any drawbacks. The reason why nobody is trying to solve "the biggest single problem in cycling" is because it already has been, and an inner tube wasn't part of the solution.
    Formerly known as iceaxe

  47. #47
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    I've never had to fix a stan's-seated tire on the trail but I have mounted several tires with CO2 cartridges with no impediment in performance. You just have to make sure you keep the valve at the top of tire so the CO2 doesn't freeze the magic sauce.
    Formerly known as iceaxe

  48. #48
    '18 Transition Sentinel
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    good-ol' Hutchinson Green Tubes (FR/DH)

    Quote Originally Posted by shiggy
    Hutchinson had their Green Tube: Thick, flexible, more puncture resistant, heavy and expensive. Did not sell well and was dropped (I think) after they went UST.
    Sorry to bring up this post from the past, but I was just doing a search on the above-mentioned green tubes.

    So, I have a pair of those green tubes, and I love 'em! These (with wire-bead tires) never ever once gave me a flat (2 26~28psi). Today, however, one tube finally developed a small rip at the foot of the Schrader valve. I tried to fix it (by putting a tire patch over/through the valve stem to cover the whole area, LOL), but no success.

    I'm really bummed that I can no longer purchase those. Are there any good comparable/equivalent replacement tube of such out there nowadays? For now, in a pinch, I just picked up a generic 26"x2.5/Schrader tube from Performance.

    Thanks,
    - PiroChu
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  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveW
    What are goatheads ?
    this:
    Quote Originally Posted by pvd
    Time to stop believing the hype and start doing some science.
    29er Tire Weight Database

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