Steel freehub body for Stan's ZTR hubs?- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
    rth009
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    Steel freehub body for Stan's ZTR hubs?

    I dont know what my problem is, but I can destroy the flimsy aluminum freehub body in about 7 months of riding, using XT or or SRAM PG990 cassettes. Can I buy a steel freehub body for the ZTR hub? This is the old ZTR hub (circa 2010) before they became the 3.30 hub.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by rth009 View Post
    I dont know what my problem is, but I can destroy the flimsy aluminum freehub body in about 7 months of riding, using XT or or SRAM PG990 cassettes. Can I buy a steel freehub body for the ZTR hub? This is the old ZTR hub (circa 2010) before they became the 3.30 hub.
    Have you attempted to contact Stans?

  3. #3
    rth009
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    I have not contacted Stans about whether a steel one will work with the ZTR hub, but last summer I contacted them after I blew through the first freehub body after half a season of riding. They were great about it and provided me a new aluminum one for free, at the same time they said it was not defective, but now I've destroyed the splines on that one too, so much that the third smallest cassette cog is out of position because it has gouged the splines. They said nothing about a steel freehub body when I spoke to them last year, but I didnt ask either.

    I will ask them specifically if I dont get a response here, but I thought Id ask here first.

  4. #4
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    Well I know their hubs are very similar to Sun Ringle Dirty Flea hubs...but I don't know how similar they are to the Disc Jockey which has a steel freehub. That's the only possibility that comes to mind.

  5. #5
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    Youre not alone - I havent destroyed my 3.30 freehub (yet), but there is some serious notching after only 4-5 months worth of sporadic riding. 4 races and no more than 5 trail rides later and I can only get the cassette off with a lot of cursing and even more effort. I weigh 160lbs and dont have enormous amounts of power, so its confusing to me too.

  6. #6
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    I believe the Shimano freehub was designed in an era when it was inconceivable to produce the unit in aluminum, hence the shallow splines. In our shop we see the same problem with Loaded/Ellsworth wheels, Mavic, DT, etc.

    Campagnolo recognized the problem early (around the beginning of 9 speed for them) and switched to deep splines, but in process eliminated backwards compatibility. Not much of an issue anymore as so much time has passed.

    Maybe Shimano is afraid of doing a redesign at this point with so many manufacturers using their pattern?

    The aluminum freehub will last much longer if as many of the cogs as possible are riveted/bolted together in a unit to spread the load.

  7. #7
    scholar and gentleman
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    Ran into this: Weight Weenies • View topic - Tune Superscharf Body while contemplating unattractive alternatives. No idea if it would actually work, but if it did it'd be a hilariously simple and cheap workaround. I may try it myself...
    Honi soit qui mal y pense

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by jan_nikolajsen View Post
    I believe the Shimano freehub was designed in an era when it was inconceivable to produce the unit in aluminum, hence the shallow splines. In our shop we see the same problem with Loaded/Ellsworth wheels, Mavic, DT, etc.

    Campagnolo recognized the problem early (around the beginning of 9 speed for them) and switched to deep splines, but in process eliminated backwards compatibility. Not much of an issue anymore as so much time has passed.

    Maybe Shimano is afraid of doing a redesign at this point with so many manufacturers using their pattern?

    The aluminum freehub will last much longer if as many of the cogs as possible are riveted/bolted together in a unit to spread the load.
    Shimano actually did try a deeper splined alloy freehub body on their Dura-Ace 7800 hubs and cassettes but then went back to Ti for their 7850 hubs.

    I think the better option is for hub manufacturers to simply offer steel freehub bodies, let the weight weenies but the disposable alloy units and let the rest of us buy the steel units.

  9. #9
    rth009
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    I contacted Stans. I told them that I had some damage with my XT cassette, but then I replaced it the PG990 and after about 100 miles with the PG990, the third smallest ring had eaten the splines so much that the cog shifted out of position.

    Stans Dude said "We have not seen any problems with customer using the XT cassette if it's on tight, but some customers have had trouble with the SRAM cassettes. The SRAM cassettes have been manufactured longer than the shimano standard and the last tooth doesn't engage fully. We do not have a steel or titanium freehub option. We are working on an anti-galling alloy version"

    When I mentioned that I was using a SRAM PG990 that had all but the three smallest cogs attached, which I thought solved the problem, and that it was not the smallest cog, but the third, he responded: " Although the SRAM pg990 has connected gears each gear has it's own spline while the connected gears on the XT cassette have a continuous spline.

    He recommended XT cassettes and to tighten lock ring very tight.

    I still think its BS to use aluminum on a part that takes such abuse. I am only 200 pounds by the way.

  10. #10
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    That sucks...and reinforces my preference for Steel freehub bodies. Seems like they could at least offer you a new one at a discount since I'm not aware of any "XT Only" disclaimer from Stans.

  11. #11
    rth009
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    I forgot to mentioned that they are sending me a refurbished freehub body. They have been very responsive and helpful, I just wish they'd make a steel or Ti freehub body to fit those hubs. In all other respects, the Flow Rims and ZTR hub combo has been excellent.

    Im really curious if I would destroy other manufacturers aluminum freehub bodies as I have the ZTR ones. I have had no such problem with XT freehub bodies or SRAM 506, or other unnamed ones on cheaper bike wheelsets.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by rth009 View Post
    I have had no such problem with XT freehub bodies or SRAM 506, or other unnamed ones on cheaper bike wheelsets.
    That is because they are made out of steel

    At least Stans did work with you so that is encouraging

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Philly B View Post
    Ran into this: Weight Weenies • View topic - Tune Superscharf Body while contemplating unattractive alternatives. No idea if it would actually work, but if it did it'd be a hilariously simple and cheap workaround. I may try it myself...
    I did this when mounting a pieced-together 8-speed cassette onto an aluminum hub and it worked great. I did need to some slight filing on the cassette cogs.

    The only reason I'm not still using that setup was that I caught a stick and destroyed my 8-speed derailleur and chain. I was looking for an excuse to upgrade the drivetrain and it appeared.

  14. #14
    rth009
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    So, I got the refurbished freehub body on there, and put an XT cassette on and tightened it tight like No Tubes told me to do, but I know that Im still gonna eat through that flimsy freehub body by mid summer, so, question is now:

    are there any hubs available with a steel freehub body that will use the same length spokes as my ZTR freehub? I ask this because I just had my wheel rebuilt with brand new spokes and Id rather not have to buy new spokes again since Im already going to have to buy an expensive hub and labor to rebuild it. I should have just ditched the flimsy ZTR hub before this rebuild, but I thought I could get steel or Ti freehub body for ZTR hub

    I also tried to jam the flattened carpenter staples down in between the cassette and the freehub flanges to protect the flimy aluminum (like I read somewhere on here) but they would not fit.


    Any advice?

  15. #15
    scholar and gentleman
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    sounds like you may have to file the aluminum splines down some to get the staples to fit.

    i just ordered an XT cassette to install before my new stan's wheelset goes on the bike for just this reason... hoping the smallest 3 cogs don't cause problems but if they do i think i'll try staples. it would really irk me though, because i'm even switching to a 20t small chainring (which requires filing down crank bosses!) to make up for the 36t granny cog that i'm losing going to a higher-end 9 speed cassette.
    Honi soit qui mal y pense

  16. #16
    rth009
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    So, Philly, is it your understanding that you need to file the splines to get the staples to fit? I didnt read that in the weight weenie discussion, but it makes sense. I'm hesitant to do that. Please let me know how it goes.

    I just really think that No Tubes needs to make a steel freehub body compatible with its hubs and all would be well in the world.

  17. #17
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    It depends on what you're after. Instead of filing the splines, I filed the cheap cogs. Worked great.

    Mounting loose steel cogs onto an aluminum freehub using flattened staples...

  18. #18
    scholar and gentleman
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    ^^^what he said.

    Quote Originally Posted by rth009 View Post
    I just really think that No Tubes needs to make a steel freehub body compatible with its hubs and all would be well in the world.
    Agreed. I'd pay the weight penalty for that peace of mind, and since it's easily interchangeable not everyone would have to if they preferred aluminum.
    Honi soit qui mal y pense

  19. #19
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    Chris King hubs have a stainless steel free hub body you can buy. Your current spokes should work just fine.
    I just built up a new wheel with a king rear hub. Originally I was going to reuse my 3.30 hub, but decided to go all in. I redid the spoke calculations and didn't have to reorder the spokes.

  20. #20
    NoTubes.com
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    Quote Originally Posted by rth009 View Post
    So, Philly, is it your understanding that you need to file the splines to get the staples to fit? I didnt read that in the weight weenie discussion, but it makes sense. I'm hesitant to do that. Please let me know how it goes.

    I just really think that No Tubes needs to make a steel freehub body compatible with its hubs and all would be well in the world.
    Just wanted to let everyone know we are working on a more durable option. I'll be at the factory this week to check up on the progress. Hope to have some availability info for everyone interested real soon.
    Please do not use the forum PM or e-mail function for business related questions. I can be contacted through our website. Thanks!

    NoTubes.com

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike B. View Post
    Just wanted to let everyone know we are working on a more durable option. I'll be at the factory this week to check up on the progress. Hope to have some availability info for everyone interested real soon.
    I would hope so.
    I was told by a Stan's rep that the notching by the pawls was "normal" for your hubs. This is after 650 miles of riding.

    Steel freehub body for Stan's ZTR hubs?-imageuploadedbytapatalk1331390600.065958.jpg

  22. #22
    West Chester, PA
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    Quote Originally Posted by mestapho View Post
    I would hope so.
    I was told by a Stan's rep that the notching by the pawls was "normal" for your hubs. This is after 650 miles of riding.
    Totally separate issue. Making it out of steel likely won't help that, its because the axle is flexy.

    And its the drive ring notching the freehub, not the pawls. Torque pulls the freehub into the drive ring teeth.

  23. #23
    rth009
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    Quote Originally Posted by mestapho View Post
    I would hope so.
    I was told by a Stan's rep that the notching by the pawls was "normal" for your hubs. This is after 650 miles of riding.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    I wouldnt worry about that too much, you've got lots of life left in that. Check mine. This is from circa 1000 miles

    That is excellent news about the "more durable option." Thanks for chiming in and updating us.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Steel freehub body for Stan's ZTR hubs?-stans-ztr-freehub-body3-10-12-1024x768-.jpg  


  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by mestapho View Post
    I would hope so.
    I was told by a Stan's rep that the notching by the pawls was "normal" for your hubs. This is after 650 miles of riding.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    This notching by the pawls I believe is causing me a lot of grief. On my latest rides my free hub kept locking up Not allowing me to freewheel. I took it all apart and found that my inner bearing needed to be replaced so I did that. I put it all back together and tightened it up but could not get rid of a small amount of play (movement) on the free hub side. I had a race the next day and decided to ride it anyways as I didn't have any other choice. Luckily, it performed fine during the race and I was able to do really well


    Unfortunately I took it out on another ride and the same probably occurred, could not freewheel at all. I am wondering if the free hub is not being allowed to perform correctly because the notches are catching. Any one know a little more on this topic? When I took it into the shop they said all of my bearings are good but the notching is most likely the cause.
    Any help would be great. Pictures to follow when I can snap some.

  25. #25
    West Chester, PA
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    See post 22. Maybe you can find a machinist to make a stiffer axle. Or just get a better hub.

  26. #26
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    Did Stans ever come out with a more durable freehub body?

  27. #27
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    Bump^^^ anyone have any new suggestions?

  28. #28
    NoTubes.com
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    Steel freehub bodies for the 3.30 and 3.30HD hubs are in stock. They're being added to the website shortly but you can give us a call to order as well.
    Please do not use the forum PM or e-mail function for business related questions. I can be contacted through our website. Thanks!

    NoTubes.com

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by 92gli View Post
    See post 22. Maybe you can find a machinist to make a stiffer axle. Or just get a better hub.
    I think you can convert the rear hub to a 10mm through axle, then put in a DT. Think that would solve this problem?

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by rth009 View Post
    I dont know what my problem is, but I can destroy the flimsy aluminum freehub body in about 7 months of riding, using XT or or SRAM PG990 cassettes. Can I buy a steel freehub body for the ZTR hub? This is the old ZTR hub (circa 2010) before they became the 3.30 hub.
    you are not alone... funny thing is, its only within the past two years that I have started to make freehub/cassettes fused into one part... either its my improved hammering on the hills or freehubs are made way too soft these days...

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