Stans sealant is giving me a headache- Mtbr.com
Results 1 to 78 of 78
  1. #1
    Hybrid Leftys aren't real Moderator
    Reputation: MendonCycleSmith's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    16,068

    Stans sealant is giving me a headache

    Not literally! Just needed a good title...

    So, it's becoming more broadly discussed, but a year or so ago, I started to notice Stans treated tires, weeping copious amounts of clear fluid through the side walls.

    Wrote it off initially.

    When it caused my $100+ two year old Schwalbe Ice Spikers to start sloughing off the casing rubber, and warping the casing, I became more concerned, and own two useless studded tires, boooooo.

    I contacted them, and was told, after providing my evidence, that "we've heard of it with Schwalbe's". So, what of the Contis, Surlys, 45Nrth, Specialized, etc, that are doing similar things?

    "Nope, never heard of it".

    I call BS.

    This, from a company whose rims I sell and build, religiously, and whose sealant I have sold and used for many years, without incident.

    They deny the formula has changed. But now they offer a Race formula, which is more expensive, and has aggregate in it, just as Stans always had. They claim it's bigger though, to seal better.

    After watching someone inject 2 oz of Stans through the tiny needle hole opening in their bottle nipple, without any effort or clogging, on a ride last night, I found myself thinking, that'd never have happened, were there any aggregate in it.

    So while I have no info, it would appear "Stans" is new, and the Race is now the original (only it costs more).

    I'd call and ask, but I'd get stonewalled again I'm sure.

    The new stuff is different, sure as the sun comes up in the east.

    Now there's reports that using CO2 with Stans in, will separate it, and make the latex coagulate on the interior, and push the liquid carrier, out of the casing. Odd, only because I fill tires with a compressor (not CO2) and get the same effect. I've used CO2 for years with "old Stans" and never had an issue.

    If it was for any valid reason, greener formula, better sealing, something, wouldn't they be proud and say so?

    Were I an conspiracy lover, I'd say the new stuff is designed to go away faster, thus boosting sales.

    Okay, so I'm not, but I'm thinking that anyway!

    Just trying to get some additional POV's, experiences, input, etc, because I'm ready to switch from a product I've used forever, because it now sucks, and the company is playing head games instead of being honest.

    Have at it!
    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

    - FrostyStruthers



    www.mendoncyclesmith.com

  2. #2
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    8,918
    [QUOTE=MendonCycleSmith;12830876]

    "weeping copious amounts of clear fluid through the side walls."

    I had this issue last season. I attributed it to the soapy water I used to bead the tire leaching out. Problem was it was occurring after miles of use. I have since gone to Orange seal. I changed a new tire initially (didn't like the tread pattern) and noticed how the OS was really dried & gummy compared to the Stans.

  3. #3
    mtbr member
    Reputation: DeeZee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    6,235
    Quote Originally Posted by MendonCycleSmith View Post
    Not literally! Just needed a good title...

    So, it's becoming more broadly discussed, but a year or so ago, I started to notice Stans treated tires, weeping copious amounts of clear fluid through the side walls.

    Wrote it off initially.

    When it caused my $100+ two year old Schwalbe Ice Spikers to start sloughing off the casing rubber, and warping the casing, I became more concerned, and own two useless studded tires, boooooo.

    I contacted them, and was told, after providing my evidence, that "we've heard of it with Schwalbe's". So, what of the Contis, Surlys, 45Nrth, Specialized, etc, that are doing similar things?

    "Nope, never heard of it".

    I call BS.

    This, from a company whose rims I sell and build, religiously, and whose sealant I have sold and used for many years, without incident.

    They deny the formula has changed. But now they offer a Race formula, which is more expensive, and has aggregate in it, just as Stans always had. They claim it's bigger though, to seal better.

    After watching someone inject 2 oz of Stans through the tiny needle hole opening in their bottle nipple, without any effort or clogging, on a ride last night, I found myself thinking, that'd never have happened, were there any aggregate in it.

    So while I have no info, it would appear "Stans" is new, and the Race is now the original (only it costs more).

    I'd call and ask, but I'd get stonewalled again I'm sure.

    The new stuff is different, sure as the sun comes up in the east.

    Now there's reports that using CO2 with Stans in, will separate it, and make the latex coagulate on the interior, and push the liquid carrier, out of the casing. Odd, only because I fill tires with a compressor (not CO2) and get the same effect. I've used CO2 for years with "old Stans" and never had an issue.

    If it was for any valid reason, greener formula, better sealing, something, wouldn't they be proud and say so?

    Were I an conspiracy lover, I'd say the new stuff is designed to go away faster, thus boosting sales.

    Okay, so I'm not, but I'm thinking that anyway!

    Just trying to get some additional POV's, experiences, input, etc, because I'm ready to switch from a product I've used forever, because it now sucks, and the company is playing head games instead of being honest.

    Have at it!
    Maybe you need to adjust your tinfoil hat :-) JK

  4. #4
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    5,366
    If by headache you mean erection, then maybe you should stop drinking Stans...or at least wait 4 hours for the de-erection before calling a Dr.

  5. #5
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    827
    I noticed same thing. Last bottle of Stans is leaking through the tyres. Tyres are always wet - Conti X-king Protection and Schwalbe Rocket Ron TLR. I'm trying Bontrager sealant now.

    BTW Schwalbe is selling Stans sealant under the Doc Blue name. It used to be something different, but they switched some years ago to Stans.

  6. #6
    Hybrid Leftys aren't real Moderator
    Reputation: MendonCycleSmith's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    16,068
    Quote Originally Posted by jonshonda View Post
    If by headache you mean erection, then maybe you should stop drinking Stans...or at least wait 4 hours for the de-erection before calling a Dr.

    Ahahahaha!

    arnea: Curious, I'll call them and chat about it then...
    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

    - FrostyStruthers



    www.mendoncyclesmith.com

  7. #7
    turtles make me hot
    Reputation: NYrr496's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    10,759
    I want to try Truckerco's sealant. Once I use up all of my Stan's, I'll switch.
    I like turtles

  8. #8
    Land of the 230+
    Reputation: GuitsBoy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    2,515
    Quote Originally Posted by NYrr496 View Post
    I want to try Truckerco's sealant. Once I use up all of my Stan's, I'll switch.
    I cant comment on puncture plugging, but it does seems to seal the bead well. I recently sold my old wheelset to a buddy. I cleaned up the old wheels as best I could, re-taped them, put in new valve stems, and new tires (same nobby nics, just new ones) and added a few ounces of trucker co cream, and some silver glitter for some bling factor (and supposed puncture sealing properties). Anyway, they set up noticeably easier than the stans did, and held pressure a lot better overnight. Granted this is only a sample size of two wheels, but so far so good.

  9. #9
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    1,298
    Orange sealant for the win!

  10. #10
    Flappity flappity flap
    Reputation: Zowie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    2,590
    Quote Originally Posted by MendonCycleSmith View Post
    I'd say the new stuff is designed to go away faster, thus boosting sales.
    All the away faster.
    Couldn't come up with another Boost joke. Sorry.

    Real comment:
    Wade through that silly huge thread in 29ers and mix something superior....

  11. #11
    mtbr member
    Reputation: RS VR6's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    5,153
    I've seen weeping on my older Specialized tires. Butcher, Purgatory, Fast Trak, but not on the Ground Control. Never affected the sealing of the tires...but I did notice that if I neglect to add more sealant...and after a while...the sealant will start to separate and not seal if the tire got punctured.

    Using Rocket Rons on one bike, Hans Dampf/Nobby Nic on another, and a Racing Ralph on the rear of a third bike. So far...there is no weeping from any of those tires. I'll pop the bead every couple months to make sure that it's not separating and add more if needed.

    My GF recently got a 6Fattie and I converted to tubeless. No weeping so far.

    What I did notice that if you buy the small 2oz bottles...there are no chunks in there. Its pretty much all liquid...but if you buy the 16 or 32oz bottles...those have the chunks.

  12. #12
    Hybrid Leftys aren't real Moderator
    Reputation: MendonCycleSmith's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    16,068
    This is what's kind of weird about it.

    I have other tires, say Surly, though a different model, that don't weep, and others that do.

    Hear the same thing, some Schwalbes, some Specialized, some Conti, etc, but never 100%.

    So what to think? I have no idea, I just know the phenomenon is a recent thing, and I've been using Stans only, for over 10 years, as well as selling it to all my customers, who, until recently, had no wet sidewalls, yet now, I get one or two a week, stopping by to ask about it, comment on it, etc.

    Been paying attention to "chunk level" and such (I only stock quarts). Normally you can see some once shaken and poured, not so much anymore.

    It's like someone decided to make Bandaid brand adhesive, water soluble, but deny they did when everyones bandaids start falling off when they wash their hands!

    Tinfoil hat, firmly pressed on...
    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

    - FrostyStruthers



    www.mendoncyclesmith.com

  13. #13
    Hybrid Leftys aren't real Moderator
    Reputation: MendonCycleSmith's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    16,068
    Quote Originally Posted by Zowie View Post
    All the away faster.
    Couldn't come up with another Boost joke. Sorry.
    Missed opportunity there

    29er forum? Good god, I've avoided that place for several years now. Sadly, the fatbike forum is rapidly taking over in that race...
    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

    - FrostyStruthers



    www.mendoncyclesmith.com

  14. #14
    Hybrid Leftys aren't real Moderator
    Reputation: MendonCycleSmith's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    16,068
    Well, they're about two hours from my house, so there's that. Keep it local, yo!

    But otherwise, reliability. Always worked, till it was plain, nothing would have anyway. Did winter down to double digit below zero, and the remaining 3 without a hitch other than a few Stanimals.

    But once you screw with an old standby, don't expect my loyalty for long...
    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

    - FrostyStruthers



    www.mendoncyclesmith.com

  15. #15
    turtles make me hot
    Reputation: NYrr496's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    10,759
    Quote Originally Posted by MendonCycleSmith

    But once you screw with an old standby, don't expect my loyalty for long...
    Yep.
    I like turtles

  16. #16
    mtbr member
    Reputation: manitou2200's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    3,029
    Orange Seal
    Function in disaster, finish in style.

  17. #17
    Elitest thrill junkie
    Reputation: Jayem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    32,645
    My LBS, who's been in the game a long time, said that when he first got Schwalbe tires, you could hold some models up and see sunlight through the casing. I've seen a tiny bit of this weeping. I think it's the glycol/antifreeze, at least it is in my mix. I have to wonder about their tire casings though. They aren't exactly "beefy" tires IME, not my first choice (although I'm running one right now).

    Interestingly, that antifreeze was kind of the "missing ingredient" in my mix for a while. Once I added that, I got almost indefinite sealant life with only very small boogers forming after a while.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  18. #18
    mtbpete
    Reputation: changingleaf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    1,268
    Stan's is not a homogeneous liquid. I've been through many, many quarts of sealant and it hasn't changed. I've seen some tires weeping many years ago. I've also had parts of it coagulate with chunks in the bottle ever since I started using it over a decade ago. If you don't shake it up and poor it off the top then your less likely to get the coagulate, but you're also not going to get all the solids that have settled to the bottom and help seal the tire. I've also seen the sealant separate after sitting it a tire for quite some time, which is not a new phenomenon.

    Some materials will react with the sealant to cause it to coagulate. The inside of some tires have contaminates inside that can sometimes cause it to coagulate faster. CO2 will always make it coagulate after a couple days.

    I've also used Orange seal. It seems to be homogeneous and works good enough, but I haven't had any punctures yet and I'm not sure if it stays liquid as long as Stan's.

  19. #19
    SS Pusher Man
    Reputation: mtnbikej's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Posts
    7,543
    I've noticed on my last 2 sets of Maxxis EXO/TR tires that the bleed through on the sidewalks has happened way faster than previously....within 4 weeks on a new tire. Clearing out the old liquid and putting in to Stans hasn't solved the problem.

    Yes I do make sure the bottle is shaken well before pouring out.
    Bicycles donít have motors or batteries.:nono:

    Ebikes are not bicycles :nono:

  20. #20
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    827
    I have used Stans for five years or so - no problems before, also on the same exact tyres. I shake the bottle really well. The last bottle is different.

  21. #21
    Hybrid Leftys aren't real Moderator
    Reputation: MendonCycleSmith's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    16,068
    Yeah, this isn't a freshman usage issue. Been vigorously shaking, for years, before pouring....

    This is a sudden, marked change, for myself, my customers and friends, and a number of folks online.

    Kinda wish they'd just come clean!
    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

    - FrostyStruthers



    www.mendoncyclesmith.com

  22. #22
    Hybrid Leftys aren't real Moderator
    Reputation: MendonCycleSmith's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    16,068
    Oh, also, it smells different now, and on your hands, if feels and act differently than it used to.

    Nah, they didn't change a thing....
    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

    - FrostyStruthers



    www.mendoncyclesmith.com

  23. #23
    mtbr member
    Reputation: dan4jeepin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    443
    I can say the "race" version is different with very large pieces of aggregate. It is not the original that is for sure! Almost looks like little pieces of thin plastic mixed in. Looks like it will seal holes better but probably chump and dry faster but I haven't used it long enough to tell.

    I bought a quart of race and original at the same time about a month ago. The original is the same as it has been for the past 5 years as far as I can tell.

  24. #24
    mtbpete
    Reputation: changingleaf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    1,268
    Tires materials and composition change all the time. If you want to know more about Stan's sealant you can call them and be the judge if they're telling you the truth.

  25. #25
    mtbr member
    Reputation: dirtrider76's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    2,060
    I stopped using Stans unless I absolutely have to and then I put some normal automotive Slime in with it. The slime is basically the sealer then and the Stans just thins it out a bit.

    Majority of the time I use Orange seal though anymore.
    I like to fart when I'm in front of you on a climb:skep:

  26. #26
    BOOM goes the dynamite!
    Reputation: noapathy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    4,455
    My orange seal did the separating thing a while back. Not sure if it was the tires or the stuff itself. It was with an old non-tubeless Panaracer tire. Got rid of the tire and the goo in favor of Stan's. So far so good with the Schwalbe performance variety of tires (3 or 4 months).

  27. #27
    mtbr member
    Reputation: bikeCOLORADO's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Posts
    1,916
    Keith Bontrager's own home brew Tubeless Tire Sealant!

    2 Cups Water
    1 Cup Ethylene Glycol
    1 Cup Latex
    2-3 Tbs Cornmeal or Static Grass (static display grass)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NpxUcfZhxLk&t=70s
    GoatRidesBikes.com
    Goat Rides Bikes @ YouTube
    "I may be old and fat, but at least I'm slow." - Me

  28. #28
    Flappity flappity flap
    Reputation: Zowie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    2,590
    Quote Originally Posted by bikeCOLORADO View Post
    Keith Bontrager's own home brew Tubeless Tire Sealant!

    2 Cups Water
    1 Cup Ethylene Glycol
    1 Cup Latex
    2-3 Tbs Cornmeal or Static Grass (static display grass)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NpxUcfZhxLk&t=70s
    As has been mentioned countless times, ethylene glycol is moderately toxic and a very bad choice for a concoction you plan on spewing all over trails.

  29. #29
    MTB Addict
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    830
    Quote Originally Posted by Zowie View Post
    As has been mentioned countless times, ethylene glycol is moderately toxic and a very bad choice for a concoction you plan on spewing all over trails.
    Ethylene glycol is a weird substance... It's biodegradable, but it's also toxic to animals until it biodegrades.

  30. #30
    MCMXCV
    Reputation: D Bone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Posts
    1,277
    I'm going to be giving TruckerCo tire cream a go for my next tire replacement. I, and some of my riding buddies too, have experienced the Stan's weep with a multitude of tires.

  31. #31
    mtbr member
    Reputation: LyNx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    24,073
    Never found Stans sealant to work well, always had to add glitter inthe old days converting non tubeless tyres, tried normal SLIME tyre sealant, had to add a bit of water to let it run, but works fantastic, haven't looked back. Recently with lots of guys riding down here have had to work with Orange Seal and the newer SLIME Pro and I'd go with either of those over Stans any day, but I'm a cheap bastard and soi just use the original SLIME for wheel barrows etc, works well and much cheaper.
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold
    You're doing mtbr wrong, you're supposed to get increasingly offended by the implications that you're doing ANYTHING wrong.

  32. #32
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Posts
    1,355
    The solution: use Orange Seal.

  33. #33
    transmitter~receiver
    Reputation: meltingfeather's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    9,308
    um... who carries a baby bottle of stan's with them when they ride?
    needle hole? nipple?
    Quote Originally Posted by pvd
    Time to stop believing the hype and start doing some science.
    29er Tire Weight Database

  34. #34
    mtbr member
    Reputation: LyNx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    24,073
    Depends on what the ride is and group etc, but yeah, I do sometime take one of the small 4oz bottles with me just in case as we have some trails with some serious thorns etc and not everyone remembers to check their sealant - dries up damn fast down here in our heat, get maybe 2 months if you're lucky.

    Quote Originally Posted by meltingfeather View Post
    um... who carries a baby bottle of stan's with them when they ride?
    needle hole? nipple?
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold
    You're doing mtbr wrong, you're supposed to get increasingly offended by the implications that you're doing ANYTHING wrong.

  35. #35
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    444
    I've been noticing the clear stuff on my Schwalbe Hans dempfs. Been running schwalbes exclusively with stans for the better part of the last 5 years. Mostly nobby nics and Hans dempf. A few racing Ralph's. No issues with the clear fluid appearing on the outside of the tire until the last year. For me, it is always near a tread block. Not the sidewall.

    Looked at orange sealant a year or two ago and thought then that it was awful expensive compared to stans.

  36. #36
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Lone Rager's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    7,643
    Quote Originally Posted by Zowie View Post
    As has been mentioned countless times, ethylene glycol is moderately toxic and a very bad choice for a concoction you plan on spewing all over trails.
    Though I'm not concerned about the short lived low level toxicity of ethylene glycol, does relatively non-toxic propylene glycol work in sealant instead?
    Do the math.

  37. #37
    transmitter~receiver
    Reputation: meltingfeather's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    9,308
    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx View Post
    Depends on what the ride is and group etc, but yeah, I do sometime take one of the small 4oz bottles with me just in case as we have some trails with some serious thorns etc and not everyone remembers to check their sealant - dries up damn fast down here in our heat, get maybe 2 months if you're lucky.
    I get it... just sounded like they were carrying an actual baby bottle for trail side sippin.
    Quote Originally Posted by pvd
    Time to stop believing the hype and start doing some science.
    29er Tire Weight Database

  38. #38
    Flappity flappity flap
    Reputation: Zowie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    2,590
    Quote Originally Posted by Lone Rager View Post
    Though I'm not concerned about the short lived low level toxicity of ethylene glycol, does relatively non-toxic propylene glycol work in sealant instead?
    They both lower the vapor pressure and the freezing point.
    For reference, anywhere from -25 to 100F it has worked fine for me.
    FWIW, I'm not using a very pure grade of it either, just RV antifreeze.

  39. #39
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    4,740
    Quote Originally Posted by LaXCarp View Post
    Orange sealant for the win!
    This.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Riding slowly since 1977.

  40. #40
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Lone Rager's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    7,643
    Quote Originally Posted by Zowie View Post
    ...FWIW, I'm not using a very pure grade of it either, just RV antifreeze.
    I'm hoping Walmart sells latex, then it would be one-stop shopping for all my sealant needs.
    Do the math.

  41. #41
    Hybrid Leftys aren't real Moderator
    Reputation: MendonCycleSmith's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    16,068
    Quote Originally Posted by sam-eye-am View Post
    Been running schwalbes exclusively with stans for the better part of the last 5 years. No issues with the clear fluid appearing on the outside of the tire until the last year.
    A single case to be sure, but yes, exactly what I'm talking about.
    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

    - FrostyStruthers



    www.mendoncyclesmith.com

  42. #42
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    185
    Orange Seal is not the answer. Stan's stopped sealing pinholes with the last bottle while it had always worked fine for me prior to that. Replaced w/ Orange Seal-is the same thing. Just won't seal the small tiny punctures. Now having to use plugs instead. Both are also weeping everywhere on the side walls as well as the tread just in the last year (Schwalbe NN 2.35 pacestar, snakeskin, evo tlr 29's). I'm thinking both companies changed their formulas to a new supposedly better formula and have failed. We are their guinea pigs.

  43. #43
    mtbr member
    Reputation: dirtrider76's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    2,060
    Quote Originally Posted by jmcdev1 View Post
    Orange Seal is not the answer. Stan's stopped sealing pinholes with the last bottle while it had always worked fine for me prior to that. Replaced w/ Orange Seal-is the same thing. Just won't seal the small tiny punctures. Now having to use plugs instead. Both are also weeping everywhere on the side walls as well as the tread just in the last year (Schwalbe NN 2.35 pacestar, snakeskin, evo tlr 29's). I'm thinking both companies changed their formulas to a new supposedly better formula and have failed. We are there guinea pigs.
    Yeah it doesn't work once you run Stan's and it starts weeping. No issues with running OS from the start though.
    I like to fart when I'm in front of you on a climb:skep:

  44. #44
    transmitter~receiver
    Reputation: meltingfeather's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    9,308
    Orange seal is a greasy mess and separates as well, or at least for me it did... seemed to leave all the latex on the inner wall of the tire and what was left was a watery but greasy (pg) mess.
    Quote Originally Posted by pvd
    Time to stop believing the hype and start doing some science.
    29er Tire Weight Database

  45. #45
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    148
    I put stans race sealant in my plus bike tires last week. Today I had to take one off and the ammonia smell in the tire was really strong. Nothing like that with regular stans. Maybe they have gone back to the original formula with more ammonia. I do think the race sealant will seal some serious holes though, the chunks in the stuff are substantial.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

  46. #46
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    750
    I have been using Orange Seal for a while and it has amazed me at some of the larger sidewall holes that it sealed. We have a lot of cactus here in the SoCal desert and the Orange Seal never has an issue with the small holes either. It averages 108 degrees in the summer here and the Orange Seal doesn't dry out quite as fast as Stan's. Stan's never worked at sealing anything on the sidewall. I never mix sealants.
    The only drawback to Orange Seal is that the larger particles in it do clog your valve stem a little quicker than Stan's. The bottles that I have are older and I don't know about any new formula changes.

  47. #47
    mtbr member
    Reputation: bikeCOLORADO's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Posts
    1,916
    I have quite a stock of tubes from commuting and road riding, when a stem gets clogged from Orange Seal I steal a valve core from one of the old tubes. Most of them are drop in replacements. Then you can clean the fouled core by leaving it in acetone over night.
    GoatRidesBikes.com
    Goat Rides Bikes @ YouTube
    "I may be old and fat, but at least I'm slow." - Me

  48. #48
    Bodhisattva
    Reputation: The Squeaky Wheel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    10,710
    Quote Originally Posted by bikeCOLORADO View Post
    I have quite a stock of tubes from commuting and road riding, when a stem gets clogged from Orange Seal I steal a valve core from one of the old tubes. Most of them are drop in replacements. Then you can clean the fouled core by leaving it in acetone over night.
    or even quicker, remove the fouled core with two pliers in about 30 seconds.
    Video on Stan's site for anyone wanting to see how to do it.

  49. #49
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    750
    Quote Originally Posted by bikeCOLORADO View Post
    I have quite a stock of tubes from commuting and road riding, when a stem gets clogged from Orange Seal I steal a valve core from one of the old tubes. Most of them are drop in replacements. Then you can clean the fouled core by leaving it in acetone over night.
    I also use the core from my old road and mountain tubes. I always carry an extra. I have cleaned a few, but the rubber seals eventually wear out and the cleaning doesn't work if the seals have seen a lot of use.

  50. #50
    mtbr member
    Reputation: RS VR6's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    5,153
    Quote Originally Posted by MendonCycleSmith View Post
    Oh, also, it smells different now, and on your hands, if feels and act differently than it used to.

    Nah, they didn't change a thing....
    I recently took off a tire to swap to another rim...and I noticed that the inner tire was not coated the same way my old tires were. There is a pretty thick coating of latex all up on the inside of my old tires. With the new label stuff...the inside of the tire barely has a coating.

    I had a puncture a few weeks back...and it took forever to seal. I had to keep airing up and spinning the tire. My hand pump could not keep up with the air loss. I was lucky that I had a floor pump in the car...or I would have had to run a tube. The tire did eventually seal up...and is still sealed...but took a really long time to finally close up the hole.

    Lol...seems like they diluted their normal stiff and put the chunks into their race formula. I used to get a lot of coagulation around the opening of the bottle...to where I'd have to clean the opening to pour the sealant. Don't have that problem anymore!

  51. #51
    MCMXCV
    Reputation: D Bone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Posts
    1,277
    I just switched over to TruckerCo Tire Cream, and will give it a go once my new hand build wheels show up.

  52. #52
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    827
    Quote Originally Posted by arnea View Post
    I noticed same thing. Last bottle of Stans is leaking through the tyres. Tyres are always wet - Conti X-king Protection and Schwalbe Rocket Ron TLR. I'm trying Bontrager sealant now.
    I switched to Bontrager sealant on X-king. On the first day the side was wet, then it dried up and now is holding nicely. I can hear the liquid in the tyre when I shake the wheel. Much better.

  53. #53
    Hybrid Leftys aren't real Moderator
    Reputation: MendonCycleSmith's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    16,068
    Quote Originally Posted by RS VR6 View Post
    Lol...seems like they diluted their normal stiff and put the chunks into their race formula. I used to get a lot of coagulation around the opening of the bottle...
    Curious.

    Sounds plausible, would be nice if they just said that, as opposed to....

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVJ-W6LioB8
    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

    - FrostyStruthers



    www.mendoncyclesmith.com

  54. #54
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    320
    i've used truckerco cream with success. also the slime with latex works great.
    after this last bottle of stans is done i'll probably start using one of the other 2 exclusively.

  55. #55
    mtbr member
    Reputation: COMTBR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Posts
    503
    Had same problem with Stans weeping out constantly. Plenty of fluid, multiple different tubeless tires, many many miles, still weeping all over.
    Switched to Orange Seal...no more weeping. Period.
    Make the switch!

  56. #56
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    7,068
    I had Stans kill off a few spoke nipples. My fault for an imperfect taping job, but still.....

    King Wheelbuilder Mikesee recommended Orange and I haven't looked back. Expensive, but what the heck.

    And seems to last quite a bit longer in the hotter months.
    Whining is not a strategy.

  57. #57
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Posts
    42
    Lucky I have the privilege of getting sealant for free at from the LBS I work at. I tried Orange Seal, Trucker, and Stans. All seam to set up well and seal when needed. My beef is they dry so fast . Orange seals seams to dry the quickest and u don't know until you get a puncture. I never get 6 months of use for any of these products. If I was to puchase my own sealant it would cost about $30 a year. Surely tubes are more cost effective and they don't burp!

  58. #58
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    163
    Quote Originally Posted by mtbforever123 View Post
    Lucky I have the privilege of getting sealant for free at from the LBS I work at. I tried Orange Seal, Trucker, and Stans. All seam to set up well and seal when needed. My beef is they dry so fast . Orange seals seams to dry the quickest and u don't know until you get a puncture. I never get 6 months of use for any of these products. If I was to puchase my own sealant it would cost about $30 a year. Surely tubes are more cost effective and they don't burp!
    I used orange seal on two different bikes for over a year. Stuff dries up way too fast and is a pain to get off. I switched back to stans and am happy, orange is way overrated IMO and overpriced.

  59. #59
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Posts
    131
    Quote Originally Posted by mtbforever123 View Post
    Lucky I have the privilege of getting sealant for free at from the LBS I work at. I tried Orange Seal, Trucker, and Stans. All seam to set up well and seal when needed. My beef is they dry so fast . Orange seals seams to dry the quickest and u don't know until you get a puncture. I never get 6 months of use for any of these products. If I was to puchase my own sealant it would cost about $30 a year. Surely tubes are more cost effective and they don't burp!
    You work in a bike shop and are also pro tube for MTB use? That isn't something that you see everyday. Tubes are heavier and limit your ability to run low pressures due to the risk of pinch flats, which are a bigger problem than burping unless you spend all of your time on machine built bike park trails. Are you from a DH background or something? That is the only space I have seen any shop guys still touting tubes.

  60. #60
    Merendon Junkie
    Reputation: abelfonseca's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    1,068
    I have been having this same exact issue. I posted a picture on this thread.

    http://forums.mtbr.com/wheels-tires/...l#post12975705

  61. #61
    turtles make me hot
    Reputation: NYrr496's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    10,759
    Mountain Bike Action did a sealant shootout recently. Orange Seal won the whole thing. Truckerco beat Stan's across the board.
    I like turtles

  62. #62
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    419
    If you prick us, do we not bleed?

    Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk

  63. #63
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    543
    I stopped reading after "2 year old tires" and was dismayed to find this thread was not started on April 1st.

  64. #64
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    37
    Resurrecting an old thread. Back when this thread was started I was using Stan's with no trouble. I use their tape, their sealant, have set of Stan's Bravo Carbon wheels with their crappy NEO hubs.

    Anyhow; I don't know if it is that Stan's had changed their formula at the start of this thread or if they are inconsistent. I recently started a new bottle of Stan's after trying to make the switch to CushCores.

    I have not been able to get a seal. Prior to this and from my very first tubeless experiences on fat bikes and trail bikes I've had no trouble getting great seals with both Stan's tape and gorilla tape.

    So after fail one with the Cushcore I removed it and saw a splits in the Stan's tape in a couple spots from wresting the tire on. I chalked it up to the the stiffness of Stan's tape and the prying and pushing to get the tire seated. Anyone who has ever installed a Cushcore will understand.

    After fail number two I again saw one split in the Stan's tape. Was surprised it did not still seal but with soapy water I could see I was losing air through many spoke holes.

    So then I tried gorilla tape deciding Stan's tape did not play nice with the cushcore. As mentioned Stan's tape is not forgiving when you wrestle on a cushcore. Still no seal!! I guessed that the cushcore prevents the sealant from getting where it needs to.

    So let's remove the cushcore and set it up and ride it first. Still no seal!!

    So last night I poor a little bit of of very well shaken Stan's into a bowl so it looks like whats left after a bowl of cereal. After sitting in my kitchen over night it is still liquid this morning. No hardening at all. no skin on the bowl. This crap would not seal anything, ever.

    In the past when I set up a tire, anywhere it weeped while sealing would have rubbery Stan's on it if I did not wipe off before it dries. Where I got a little on the garage floor would get a stubborn stain where it sealed the porous concrete.

    The one time I did not rinse out my Stan's valve stem injector thing quick enough the thing sealed. Clearing it with a spoke was like pushing elastics through a tube.

    Installing cushcores is hard. Like I even broke a metal park tire lever hard. Having tried three times and now realizing I have bad sealant I'm done with Stan's.....forever.

    My expectation is the solution should start to harden and seal when contacting air. The last bottle bought around end of 2017 or beginning of 2018 worked great. The bottle I bought this fall and opened recently is 40$ CDN of monkey jiz. Actually I've not tried but would bet Monkey Jiz makes a better seal.

  65. #65
    mtbr member
    Reputation: MSU Alum's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    4,139
    Quote Originally Posted by Emanlluf View Post
    Resurrecting an old thread. Back when this thread was started I was using Stan's with no trouble.
    ..........
    My expectation is the solution should start to harden and seal when contacting air. The last bottle bought around end of 2017 or beginning of 2018 worked great. The bottle I bought this fall and opened recently is 40$ CDN of monkey jiz. Actually I've not tried but would bet Monkey Jiz makes a better seal.
    What tires are you using that even require sealant to hold air initially? On tubeless ready Maxxis and Schwalbe tires, mine hold air without sealant. The sealant is to fill holes caused while riding.

    My wife hasn't ridden since September and her tires are still holding air and I bet her sealant is pretty much dried up by now.

    Are you using 2 year old skinwall tires?

    I get it that you're damaging the tape while installing cushcore, but it seems like you're making this way harder than it needs to be. I'm perplexed that anyone has trouble setting up tubeless these days, regardless of brew used.

  66. #66
    psycho cyclo addict
    Reputation: edubfromktown's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    2,776
    Quote Originally Posted by arnea View Post
    I switched to Bontrager sealant on X-king. On the first day the side was wet, then it dried up and now is holding nicely. I can hear the liquid in the tyre when I shake the wheel. Much better.
    Delete... reply before coffee FAIL lol
    【ツ】 eDub 【ツ】

  67. #67
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    37
    Quote Originally Posted by MSU Alum View Post
    What tires are you using that even require sealant to hold air initially? On tubeless ready Maxxis and Schwalbe tires, mine hold air without sealant. The sealant is to fill holes caused while riding.

    My wife hasn't ridden since September and her tires are still holding air and I bet her sealant is pretty much dried up by now.

    Are you using 2 year old skinwall tires?

    I get it that you're damaging the tape while installing cushcore, but it seems like you're making this way harder than it needs to be. I'm perplexed that anyone has trouble setting up tubeless these days, regardless of brew used.
    To answer, high roller 2 rear and minion front. Yes I can hold air initially and yes my tubeless setups can normally hold air for weeks. This bottle of sealant is not setting up and was not holding air overnight.

    Since you're saying sealant is only for punctures then try riding tubeless on a clean set-up with no sealant? See If you can finish an afternoon?

    FWIW I just removed the problem tire, cleaned it, added some orange, saw a little sidewall seepage as expected with my not new high roller, initially a little seepage at the bead from when I aired up and now with a spray bottle I'm seeing no leaks. In an hour if it's good I will go ride. This has been my normal experience.

    Your right that tubeless is not complicated. My experience now is similar to other's in this thread. Stan's has changed or is inconsistent.

  68. #68
    mtbr member
    Reputation: MSU Alum's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    4,139
    Quote Originally Posted by Emanlluf View Post

    Since you're saying sealant is only for punctures then try riding tubeless on a clean set-up with no sealant? See If you can finish an afternoon?
    Yes I have tried it. On two different wheelsets.
    Yes, I can ride for days without sealant.
    Easily.

    The only reason I add or renew sealant is to fill in punctures.

    I had two wheelsets. One, was a wheelset I gave to my son (Giant TRX1 that never had sealant) and it had a 29x2.6 DHF front/29X2.5 Aggressor rear - mounted without sealant (I also ran Nobby Nic Addix without sealant on a pair of i9's just to try them out as well), as I wasn't quite sure what I was going to do with them and I didn't want to deal with the mess until I figured out what combo I wanted on what wheelset.

    Seriously, the wheelset/tires held air for days of riding in the Wasatch without sealant. But, going to Moab, I put sealant in there because of the potential for damage. And, of course, I normally run with sealant, but not to make the tires hold air. They'll do that without sealant.

    If tape is properly applied and the valve stem is properly installed, with tires designed as tubeless ready and undamaged rims, there's no reason they shouldn't hold air even when ridden, as long as you don't get a puncture.

    I haven't owned a new TR tire in the last several years that had "seepage" after adding sealant. If I got one now, I'd get my money back.

    I'm really not trying to yank your chain, but something seems amiss.

  69. #69
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    37
    When reading reviews of sealants I've seen where the reviewers have the same results as me. They only get good pressure for a day with bad sealant. But while we go off topic back on. My crap tires, my crap wheels, my crap tape job and my crap valve install need sealant.

    Do you agree that a small amount of Stan's siting at room temperature in a bowl for ten hours should start to harden? If it does not can we agree the formula is not good sealant?

  70. #70
    mtbr member
    Reputation: MSU Alum's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    4,139
    Quote Originally Posted by Emanlluf View Post
    When reading reviews of sealants I've seen where the reviewers have the same results as me. They only get good pressure for a day with bad sealant. But while we go off topic back on. My crap tires, my crap wheels, my crap tape job and my crap valve install need sealant.

    Do you agree that a small amount of Stan's siting at room temperature in a bowl for ten hours should start to harden? If it does not can we agree the formula is not good sealant?
    I would not expect it to begin to harden in a bowl over night, but if you put some on a rag, such that it creates a really thin layer, I would expect it to harden within an hour or so. Maybe sooner.

    I know, I keep reading about people having troubles with tires sealing. I think the last time I had a tire that wept sealant (and that I had to "shake" to distribute sealant) was a 26" pair of X-Kings Protections. That was maybe 6 years ago.

    If you have a bad tape job, the only thing sealant will do is make it worse, as the sealant will dissolve the adhesive on the tape.

  71. #71
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    37
    Quote Originally Posted by MSU Alum View Post
    I would not expect it to begin to harden in a bowl over night, but if you put some on a rag, such that it creates a really thin layer, I would expect it to harden within an hour or so. Maybe sooner.

    I know, I keep reading about people having troubles with tires sealing. I think the last time I had a tire that wept sealant (and that I had to "shake" to distribute sealant) was a 26" pair of X-Kings Protections. That was maybe 6 years ago.

    If you have a bad tape job, the only thing sealant will do is make it worse, as the sealant will dissolve the adhesive on the tape.
    I've done tubeless several times previously with no issues. Now that I had trouble I wondered if I had bad sealant. So I googled to see if other's have had bad experience with sealant and found myself here. So as a member of the community I weighed in with my experience. The difference is that my problems did not start in 2016 but with a recently opened bottle. It is behaving differently. You're trying to move the conversation to tires and prep.

    I wish I had the old bottle to directly compare. In lieu of the old bottle i did my experiment again but this time compared to the sealant I bought yesterday. No I won't poor it on a rag. Any liquid will dry on a rag as the rag has a wicking affect.

    As shown below the orange started to harden into a rubber and the Stan's did not. My last bottle would have.

    Stans sealant is giving me a headache-capture-1.jpg
    Stans sealant is giving me a headache-capture-2.jpg

  72. #72
    mtbr member
    Reputation: MSU Alum's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    4,139
    Quote Originally Posted by Emanlluf View Post
    You're trying to move the conversation to tires and prep.
    Yes. I am. Because those are the most important factors in a tire holding air.

    That was your stated problem.
    You couldn't get a seal using Stan's tape and gorilla tape after trashing the set up by manhandling cushcore onto the rim.
    That's your problem. Not the bad sealant. Unf#ck the tape job and you'll be fine. Don't, add good sealant, and it'll still be dicked up. But, do whatever you want.

    You, and many others, are screwing up the process and blaming it on the sealant. I could pour cat piss into my tires and they'd hold air, even while riding, as long as I didn't pick up a thorn or something similar. They just wouldn't self seal.

  73. #73
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    37
    Quote Originally Posted by MSU Alum View Post
    Yes. I am. Because those are the most important factors in a tire holding air.

    That was your stated problem.
    You couldn't get a seal using Stan's tape and gorilla tape after trashing the set up by manhandling cushcore onto the rim.
    That's your problem. Not the bad sealant. Unf#ck the tape job and you'll be fine. Don't, add good sealant, and it'll still be dicked up. But, do whatever you want.

    You, and many others, are screwing up the process and blaming it on the sealant. I could pour cat piss into my tires and they'd hold air, even while riding, as long as I didn't pick up a thorn or something similar. They just wouldn't self seal.
    You're so far off topic. I take the time to speak with evidence and you take the role of Stan's defence team. I temporarily gave up on the cushcore and did a clean install and still was losing pressure over night. Now with new sealant I'm good and enjoyed my ride yesterday.

    With evidence I've demonstrated that the Stan's bottle I have now stays liquid after 12 hours in room temperature open air. It won't seal crap!

    I spent my money on crap and wasted a lot of time. Speaking of which I've shared my experience and no more time will be spent keeping you from the thread hijack. Have at it.

  74. #74
    mtbr member
    Reputation: EatsDirt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    1,176
    Quote Originally Posted by MSU Alum View Post
    I'm really not trying to yank your chain, but something seems amiss.
    Tires hold air without sealant, no weeping, assuming others don't know what they're doing...

    Yes, something seems amiss.

  75. #75
    mtbr member
    Reputation: ladljon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    363
    Slim Pro sealant two yrs still wet.....
    Tread killer....

  76. #76
    mtbr member
    Reputation: MSU Alum's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    4,139
    Quote Originally Posted by EatsDirt View Post
    Tires hold air without sealant, no weeping, assuming others don't know what they're doing...

    Yes, something seems amiss.
    What tires are you using that weep sealant?
    If someone says they damaged their tape job, I'm inclined to blame that. I don't see why that's unreasonable.

  77. #77
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    1,249

    Stans sealant is giving me a headache

    I used to run really light tires in my race bike and they wept fluid thru the sidewalls quite a bit. It did this with more than one brand of fluid. I do experience some air loss right after doing a new tubeless setup but it is just a little seeping around the bead of the tire then it holds air better. In my experience some tires are really easy to install and get a good seal. I run Specialized Fast Trak with Control casing and they seal great. Other brands of tires have worked great too as long as the sidewalks are not too thin. Point is for me itís not the brand of fluid as much as the tire and rim combo that seem to dictate a really good seal and successful tubeless setup.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  78. #78
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Posts
    905
    Resurrecting this thread again, just coming here after having a frustrating night ride yesterday. Bought a new bottle of Stan's as I was having trouble getting the tires sealed from simple pin holes (needle diameter), so I loaded up both tires with new Stan's.

    The entire ride I was getting punctures that would seal just to puncture again every few seconds. These were tiny holes, it almost seemed like there was no aggregate to fill it up. I've been using Stan's since about 7-8 years and at the beginning I was amazed how well it worked. Now, its awful, its like they are milking their clients with a shit product that cost pennies and hardly works. Ever since they came up with new formulas that "worked" better I knew that was a bad sign. Seriously though, any concoction you can come up with I'm certain will work better than current Stan's.

Similar Threads

  1. M8000 RD giving me a headache.
    By E46civic in forum Drivetrain - shifters, derailleurs, cranks
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 12-09-2015, 05:21 PM
  2. To carry Stans sealant or not?
    By socal59 in forum Wheels and Tires
    Replies: 21
    Last Post: 05-14-2013, 09:29 PM
  3. Updating the Stans sealant
    By rotten1 in forum Wheels and Tires
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 02-17-2013, 07:43 PM
  4. Stans sealant and tubes
    By FireLikeIYA in forum Wheels and Tires
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 06-08-2012, 10:02 PM
  5. Stans Sealant vs. Slime Sealant --> for Stans Wheels
    By LandSpeed in forum Wheels and Tires
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 03-20-2011, 11:16 AM

Members who have read this thread: 117

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

THE SITE

ABOUT MTBR

VISIT US AT

© Copyright 2020 VerticalScope Inc. All rights reserved.