Stan's NEO Hubs- Garbage? Better now?- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Stan's NEO Hubs- Garbage? Better now?

    Hello all

    I was looking around at my different options of for a <500 dollar wheelset that fits my needs and this looks promising...

    https://www.notubes.com/major-s1-wheelset

    Reading the specs it looks like this is the hub that comes with it...

    https://www.notubes.com/technology/neo

    10 degrees of engagement is good enough for me. However I am reading reviews (some a year or two old) that talk about how stans hubs are garbage and break easier than anything comparable on the market. I've also read that the newer ones no longer have any such issues.

    Any word on if these hubs are solid? I don't want these rims if they are laced to garbage cans.

  2. #2
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    The old Stan's hubs were cheap turds. Stan's doesn't actually make hubs, the old 3.30s we're likely chosen brand hubs out of Asia. The neos are still Asian hubs, but out of a new factory.

    I haven't seen many reports of failures with the neos. I don't think they're worth the money Stan's charges, but that's more opinion than anything.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Pivot View Post
    The old Stan's hubs were cheap turds. Stan's doesn't actually make hubs, the old 3.30s we're likely chosen brand hubs out of Asia. The neos are still Asian hubs, but out of a new factory.

    I haven't seen many reports of failures with the neos. I don't think they're worth the money Stan's charges, but that's more opinion than anything.
    Can you recommend a better priced wheelset that has as much internal mm as the Major S1? Seemed like a solid value to me unless the Hubs are as garbage as some of the older reviews say they are.

  4. #4
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    I'd use a DT 350 hub on a wtb i35. Price is comparable, but I feel it's significantly higher quality.

    If you can build your own, that could get you LB carbon rims on maybe a bitex hub. That's stretching it though.

    I'll admit to not being a Stan's fan. I don't like the profile or incompatibility with certain tires. The rims are only about $150 a pair, and Stan's charges a ton of cash on top for Asian generic hubs. Not that Asian hubs are bad, they're not, but half the appeal is the low price. Stan's replaced the low price with an expensive sticker.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Pivot View Post
    The old Stan's hubs were cheap turds. Stan's doesn't actually make hubs, the old 3.30s we're likely chosen brand hubs out of Asia.
    I don't want to derail the thread, but my impression of the 3.30 is not that it's cheap, it's that it's underbuilt for MTB. Stan's targets weight as much as they do cost. Outside of the DT240, I can't think of many hubs in the 230g range that don't sacrifice reliability.

  6. #6
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    IBIS 738 offer comparable hub w 10deg engagement, but rim is Asym and 35mm internal. $549 retail and lower weight than the Major S1.. Its a great wheelset for the money and I shopped many options inc carbon at many levels, and many custom build options for alloy - wtb, ARC, Stans, DT etc.. In the end i got lucky and found em as a factory new takeoff by private part so a great deal was had. Jenson or CC will put them on sale for as much as 20% off - no brainer for what they are - wide, asym, reasonable weight and IBIS warranty.

    Prior to this wheel set - i ran the Arch MK3/Neo wheel set as it came stock on my bike. No complaints really other than i wanted the wider ID to run as large/volume tires as possible.

    Also - it seems previous failures of Neo hubs may have been due to the Stars axle machined to some incorrect tolerances. My bike came w SRAM Maxle light. I pounded the Arch wheel set into rocks etc... and some hard trail riding, no dents in rims and hub worked and looked great upon inspection when removed.

    I like the fact Stans offers a high engagement driver option - i've tried to determine if IBIS has ability to work with one,,, but IBIS have never answered my request for info on this topic. That said - i don't really have any complaints w 10deg... and I ran I9 for 2 seasons. IF i had the choice to simply upgrade the driver to higher engagement I'd do it!

    I think once Stans goes to the MK3 formula for the new rims, i would be highly inclined to look at em...

  7. #7
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    Checkout Colorado Cyclist. You can get arc rims with dt Swiss 350s for around your budget. Later when you have some more cash upgrade the internals to the 54t giving you about 6 degrees of engagement.
    2014 Giant Anthem X Advanced 1 29er
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  8. #8
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    I have had two Neo hubs. First one lasted 6 months, the second probably 4. It actually seized up just the other day. As the post above mentioned, they just really aren't made for hard riding. I'm 185 and climbing a ton. I just think they are underpowered for my weight and style of riding. I think if you are light and more XC oriented on short punchy climbs they would work fine. Here in Colorado where I get 5-10 miles from my car/road, I think they are garbage.

  9. #9
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    From what I have gathered the hubs they are currently selling are supposed to be more durable than their older models. I'm not sure when they moved to the current form of the NEO hubs. I'm wondering which ones you were on that let you down.

  10. #10
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    Big props to Stan's for their WARRANTY program. New rear hub on the way!

    Early 2017 bike OE with Arch EX MK3 NEO.
    Cracked a Stan's Neo hub today, Sub 1500 miles.
    XC Carbon hard tail (Race / train).
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Stan's NEO Hubs- Garbage? Better now?-18362473_10155092432260867_183056682_o.jpg  

    Stan's NEO Hubs- Garbage? Better now?-neo-hub-failure.jpg  

    Last edited by whitfield96; 05-12-2017 at 07:15 PM. Reason: WARRANTY

  11. #11
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    They were the standard NEO not the ultimate. I have never had a Stan's hub last over a year. Best I ever had was a 3.3 on a Arch. I get a pretty good deal on Stan's wheelsets so have stuck with them. There is just so many better options. Buy some Nexties with some DT hubs.

  12. #12
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    Sorry to dig this up, but I had a related question.

    Planning on upgrading my old Grail/Neo rear hub (NOT the Ultimate).

    Was looking at either the Stan's Ultimate Freehub kit with Speedsync......or go with a new hub altogether, like the Bitex BX106, which is about the same price as the Stans freehub kit.

    Are the new Stan's hubs better now?


    Thanks!

  13. #13
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    I havenít had any issues and I put on a lot of miles.

  14. #14
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    I may be speaking out of turn since I've never had a Neo but Stan's track record would steer me toward just about anything else.

    I do tons of builds on Bike Hub Store Bitex hubs. Haven't had one come back yet.
    I like turtles

  15. #15
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    I think I'll pass on the Stan's. I guess was already a little hesitant to begin with anyway.

    Thanks all!

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by steinercat View Post
    I think I'll pass on the Stan's. I guess was already a little hesitant to begin with anyway.

    Thanks all!
    The hub thing is a little weird. There's some hubs that are just trash. Everyone knows it, and there isn't much discussion about kooser and shimano. Then there's a lot of hubs that hit a competitive price point, have competitive features, and are sturdy enough for most users, to a varying degree. Stan's and bitex fall in this category. Then there's hubs that (barring abuse) just last forever. Those hubs get maintained by their owners because the owners have ascended the ladder of hubs and are sick of that shit, which further reinforces their reputation. DT, CK, and onyx seem to be the leaders here, with a quite few more close to cinching that coveted status, but lack the market penetration and evangelists.

    For someone like me, whose already had plenty of hub issues, going stans -> bitex is an inconsequential gain when you can get dt350s for 50 bucks more. $50 is meaningless when i'm buying a new set of spokes for rear rim #3.

    It gets further complicated by folks willing to throw down for premium hubs that they don't intend to carry from rim to rim. That's just weird.
    "Things that are complex are not useful, Things that are useful are simple."
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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by scottzg View Post
    The hub thing is a little weird. There's some hubs that are just trash. Everyone knows it, and there isn't much discussion about kooser and shimano. Then there's a lot of hubs that hit a competitive price point, have competitive features, and are sturdy enough for most users, to a varying degree. Stan's and bitex fall in this category. Then there's hubs that (barring abuse) just last forever. Those hubs get maintained by their owners because the owners have ascended the ladder of hubs and are sick of that shit, which further reinforces their reputation. DT, CK, and onyx seem to be the leaders here, with a quite few more close to cinching that coveted status, but lack the market penetration and evangelists.

    For someone like me, whose already had plenty of hub issues, going stans -> bitex is an inconsequential gain when you can get dt350s for 50 bucks more. $50 is meaningless when i'm buying a new set of spokes for rear rim #3.

    It gets further complicated by folks willing to throw down for premium hubs that they don't intend to carry from rim to rim. That's just weird.

    It's funny you mention DT350s, cause I just recently got those with Forza's on my gravel bike. Solid combo! Probably another reason why I'm looking to change my current NEOs.

  18. #18
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    Stanís Neo hub is crap if your doing a lot steep climbing, just got a Fezzari La Sal Peak 3 weeks ago and the free hub body is blown out at 160 miles. The steel pieces are what broke off around the pawls, again this is a new hub!
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Stan's NEO Hubs- Garbage? Better now?-cbe6b2c8-2543-41d3-8863-861d999e9e49.jpg  

    Last edited by Captain_Trips; 06-09-2019 at 11:30 PM.

  19. #19
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    Just trashed my second neo rear hub (warranty replacement for the first one) - freehub body toast- after about 800 miles of riding. I like the flow mk3 rims so I stuck with them, but this time laced to a DT 350 w/ 54T upgrade. I'm 240lbs, so harder on hubs than most, but technique is pretty decent, not a masher.

  20. #20
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    I've got 5 good months of riding now on Mojo 3 with Neo hubs. New rear wheel build is the next bike purchase I'm making. I don't trust this rear hub. I've blown two xt freehubs in the past and that can make for a real bad day depending on terrain and how far out you are.

    Looking at Spank with a quiet Project321 hub. Ya, it's not a ratchet system but I haven't heard any bad pub...heck my Pro2's were bombproof.

  21. #21
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    I had a terrible experience with Stans about 3-4 years ago. My freehub blew up on the Tahoe Rim Trail and I luckily was at a point where i could mostly coast down to the lake and to a bike shop. But the warranty process was complete BS. They didn't want their rims laced w somebody elseís hub or vice versa so they refused to just send me a new hub. Finally they agreed to send me a new wheel all built up at a massive discount if i fedexed them the broken hub. After that i realized what parts were wearing and so fought them until they sent me a huge box of axles, freehubs and bearings.
    Fast forward to last week, I needed new 26Ē wheels for my daughterís FS build and found new old stock Stans for a steal. I know what i am getting into this time and she is much lighter and not a climber like me. Got a carbon valor 24h front and a podium 32h rear for $299. Swapped the freehub out and end caps out and really had a laugh. These are engineered for 150 pound riders max!

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain_Trips View Post
    Stanís Neo hub is crap if your doing a lot steep climbing, just got a Fezzari La Sal Peak 3 weeks ago and the free hub body is blown out at 160 miles. The steel pieces are what broke off around the pawls, again this is a new hub!
    Looks just like mine from my La Sal Peak. 219 miles on this one. The recess for the bearing is completely deformed on mine. Where the back of the pawls rest are all broken and chunked out. The one missing pawl fell out when I took it out. If you look close, where the pawl is missing it put enough pressure on the outer bearing race that it actually cracked the race. My axle tube was stuck in the driver as well. I am about 225 pounds, but I didn't think I'd wreck I driver like that. Emailing back and forth with the warranty department currently, but thinking about building something heavier duty. Just have no idea what that is yet.



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  23. #23
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    I too am a heavy rider and had multiple issues with Stan's hubs. My guess is there are three problems:

    1 -Flexy axles, the stock aluminum ones are flexy, allowing the freehub body to contact the ratchet ring (a new steel axle is available that solves this issue).
    2 -Inaccurate machining of the pawl seats. Even when new, you can rotate the freehub VERY slowly, and hear up to six individual clicks as the pawls engage. This means that at any given time, 1, 2, 3 etc pawls may actually be engaged, instead of all six.
    3 -Perhaps the material of the freehub is too soft, or not designed robust enough to resist deformation from the pawls (however, number 2 above could be the whole issue...if only a couple pawls are engaged)

    That said, I have to say that Stans was fantastic to deal with... sending me replacement part to address this 3 times. Ultimately, it was time for a new bike so I just installed the new parts Stans sent the last time and gave the bike to my son, he's 100 lbs light than me so he should have more success.

    Because of this experience, and similar hub issues from a Sun Ringle wheels, for the new bike, I ordered custom wheels from the beginning.....Flow mk3's and DT 350 hubs.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by KThaxton View Post
    I too am a heavy rider and had multiple issues with Stan's hubs. My guess is there are three problems:

    1 -Flexy axles, the stock aluminum ones are flexy, allowing the freehub body to contact the ratchet ring (a new steel axle is available that solves this issue).
    2 -Inaccurate machining of the pawl seats. Even when new, you can rotate the freehub VERY slowly, and hear up to six individual clicks as the pawls engage. This means that at any given time, 1, 2, 3 etc pawls may actually be engaged, instead of all six.
    3 -Perhaps the material of the freehub is too soft, or not designed robust enough to resist deformation from the pawls (however, number 2 above could be the whole issue...if only a couple pawls are engaged)

    That said, I have to say that Stans was fantastic to deal with... sending me replacement part to address this 3 times. Ultimately, it was time for a new bike so I just installed the new parts Stans sent the last time and gave the bike to my son, he's 100 lbs light than me so he should have more success.

    Because of this experience, and similar hub issues from a Sun Ringle wheels, for the new bike, I ordered custom wheels from the beginning.....Flow mk3's and DT 350 hubs.
    Funny you mention the flexy axles. I just got an email back from them. They are sending me a new free hub and new bearings for the hub itself. They are also sending me a steel axle to replace the aluminum one. They said the aluminum axle having too much for is likely what caused the damage I experienced.

    Like you said, they are great to deal with. I'm not sure if I'll run that hub again. Maybe rebuild and sell it. Upgrade to something stronger.

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  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by 05stroker View Post
    Looks just like mine from my La Sal Peak. 219 miles on this one. The recess for the bearing is completely deformed on mine. Where the back of the pawls rest are all broken and chunked out. The one missing pawl fell out when I took it out. If you look close, where the pawl is missing it put enough pressure on the outer bearing race that it actually cracked the race. My axle tube was stuck in the driver as well. I am about 225 pounds, but I didn't think I'd wreck I driver like that. Emailing back and forth with the warranty department currently, but thinking about building something heavier duty. Just have no idea what that is yet.



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    Wow. That's some impressive destruction. Lol
    Get a King. The axles are full width (no end caps that can move around) and the drive system is inboard of the cassette instead of right under it. Their design can withstand more torque than a human can put out.

  26. #26
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    The problem is definitely partly the flexy axles but I pulled the bearings and compared them side by side with a DT Swiss. While the bearings in the cassette driver were similar, the ones inside the stans hub were complete crap and totally insufficient. So not only does the axle deflect, the bearings allow even more flex under strain resulting in the gouging of the driver from mashing against the hub body. And the pawls, the quality and machining are suitable for a kids bike only, once you start getting lateral movement from all the flex, these things start catching and getting eaten up by the harder metal of the ring inside the hub. Now that I have a few years under my belt with other hubs and better understand the torque that a 42, 46 or even 50 tooth cog puts on the hub, it is no surprise to me that I blew one of these up. Probably fine for XC and people under say 160, but any kind of sustained steep climbing on a 1x drive train and a rider above 180 pounds and you are likely to get enough flex to destroy these. So many better options out there...

  27. #27
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    From my inspection and testing of many pawl hubs that have failed in this way it looks like the main reason the freehub get marked from the drive ring is that sometimes only one pawl engages which pushes the freehub to the other side against the drive ring. This puts marks in the drive ring while also enlarging the socket of the one pawl that was engaged. Now that one pawl is loose the frequency of this one and other ones engaging one at a time increases leading to more damage and eventually failure. Lighter riders, under 170 experience these issues less frequently.

    To solve this with an aluminum freehub pawl system the tolerance must be very tight so that 3 pawls always engage simultaneously, and beef up the pawl sockets. Steel freehubs will last much much longer. I would choose a different rear hub.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by 05stroker View Post
    Looks just like mine from my La Sal Peak. 219 miles on this one. The recess for the bearing is completely deformed on mine.....
    Wow, just wow! Great pics.

  29. #29
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    Good info! I don't run Stan's but after complete tranny rebuild on my '18 Kona Process 153 I took the time to inspect rear hub (Formula?). It's getting tired which is not surprising after 2,500+ miles of New England singletrack and my 220lbs arse pushing it. I have WTB Asym i29 rims (27.5) and they have taken the beating well but I've had to replace a few spokes along the way.

    Looking into wheelsets because I'm on borrowed time. I will strike Neo's from my list for sure!
    12 Santa Cruz Heckler
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  30. #30
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    I became reluctant to use pawls anymore at all. While I do understand that higher end pawl hubs would likely suffice, I feel much better about using DT's ratchet system. No chance of partial pawl engagement anymore.

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  31. #31
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    I'm at 2000 miles on Valors with Neo Ultimates on my XC race bike. I virtually only gets used for racing. While I am a light rider (64 Kg), they are only hammered on in race conditions.

    They have been great for me. BUT, if I was building from scratch, I would go with something else. These are ultra light wheels with good performance (for my intended use) that I got at a good deal. I have no regrets on the purchase.

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