setting tubeless on a wide rim- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    setting tubeless on a wide rim

    I am not a new rider and i did tubeless installation a lot of times

    but this time I really need help!!!

    I have i35 rim and i am trying to get a magic mary 2.3 tire on it with tubeless

    so after the first failure, I installed the setup using a tube. after one ride which ended with a flat, I removed the tube and now I got one side of the tire in the rim hooks

    the problem is that no matter what I try part of the tire just stays in the middle of the rim, where it is a bit deep, and in this state, the tire doesn't seal the air very well and the tubeless doesnt hold

    p.s.
    I am currently only using a gas station pumps cause I don't have real access to a real high-pressure compressor

    any ideas on how to make it work?

    thanks is advance

  2. #2
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    Max pressure and tire pliers. If that doesn't work try the same with a little soap on the bead.
    I brake for stinkbugs

  3. #3
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    Find a service station that still offers a hose hooked up to their air system, remove the valve core to permit maximum flow, soap up your bead and give it a quick hit to avoid over inflation.

  4. #4
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    https://www.rei.com/product/152975/b...RoCk5gQAvD_BwE

    I have this. Works awesome. Seats fat tires too.
    I like turtles

  5. #5
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    I had a tough time yesterday getting bead locked in after a tube install.

    Just needed more air, probably 45psi. One portion on one bead was finicky until that point.

    When tubeless on that wheel, same tire, I can set the bead with a floor pump and one hand with the valve core installed.
    It sounds like you need to coax the tire up and out of the well if you have already used high enough PSI and have lubricated the bead.

    For reference, 2.35 Specialized Grid on 31mm rims.
    With that said, I can also use one-handed pump operation and easily set 2.8's on a 40mm rim. I think I've been very lucky as in 3 years (my first experiences) I have not once had a beat not seat.

    Check out a recent video from syd and macky on Youtube. His technique may be helpful for your experience.

  6. #6
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    It doesn't sound like he's having a problem getting it to catch air but rather he can't get the beads up onto the bead seats, so there's no need or benefit for a compressor or high flow. He needs to lube the beads (sealant works well) and inflate it to the lower of the max ratings for the tire or rim. Oftentimes the beads will pop up if it's left sitting at max pressure for a while or overnight.

    I can't imagine working with the funky unreliable gas station inflation stations out there nowadays. I guess it might be OK if you have no other recourse to get the tire to catch air, but one way or the other you need a decent floor pump.
    Do the math.

  7. #7
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    The problem with an air compressor at the gas station is sometimes it doesn't supply very high PSI quickly, sometimes you are leaking around the edges and you don't have 4 hands, so you can't seal those spots at the same time (one reason why the charger-style pumps can work better). Even though the charger pumps don't have an unlimited supply, they are "hands free" so as it empties, you can tweak the tire to help a little bit.

    On the "non-set" side, it can help if you can pull the big fat tire over the bead in one or two places. Use lots and lots of soapy water. I use a baby-shampoo mixture in a spray-bottle. One culprit I'm seeing more and more on my fat tires and a few asym rims I have are the spoke holes. After a while, the tubeless tape "sinks" into the spoke holes. Then the tire bead stalls-out at these little dimples and massive air leaks under them. I've had success using my fingers to "seal" a couple of them, usually resulting in enough residual pressure for the bead to pass over that spot.

    I had one schwalbe that was particularly evil in this regard, in the end I had to have a shop set it using 2 air compressors, one in the valve and a secondary needle-type attachment under the bead, a technique done with auto-tires sometimes. I can and have set that same tire subsequently, but it's a major PITA.

    Sometimes adding the sealant before hand helps, it sometimes makes quite a mess too.
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  8. #8
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    I had a similar tire experience where the bead was just too far from the rim shelfs. You can do two things. Leave your tire folded inside out overnight. This adjusts the rubber memory in the opposite direction. Secondly you can use a ratchet strap around the entire tire and crank it down enough to expand the bead. Here is a link to the strapping on an automotive tire (half way down the thread) https://www.okshooters.com/threads/r....227272/page-2

  9. #9
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    A post above reminds me of my experience yesterday.

    After the 3rd attempt to pull the tire up onto the shelf I added more air (to the 40-45 range). It still wasn't there -at first. I was doing something else (not airing it up) and suddenly there were 2 or 3 more loud snaps. Much louder than the tubeless snaps I ever get to experience. LOL

  10. #10
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    Using an air compressor, I've blasted between the rim and the bead near where the bead did not want to seat and been able to force it up.
    This post is a natural product. Variances in spelling & grammar should be appreciated as part of its character & beauty.

  11. #11
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    ^^^ interesting and maybe somewhat counterintuitive, but worth a try if you have a compressor.
    Do the math.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lone Rager View Post
    ^^^ interesting and maybe somewhat counterintuitive, but worth a try if you have a compressor.
    It'd done in the big tire world on a regular basis. The linked video show's someone having a rough go @ it : https://www.okshooters.com/threads/r....227272/page-2

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by keen View Post
    Secondly you can use a ratchet strap around the entire tire and crank it down enough to expand the bead.
    I've heard this several times in the mtb world, but I have never ever gotten this to work. The air still leaks around the gaps, it doesn't magically make the bead tighter. If anything, it enlarges the gaps from the folding bead.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  14. #14
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    I tried all of the above with no results
    the natural tendency of the tire is to have its beads closer to one another. so if I apply presures from the outside then the tire just sinks deeply into the middle rim well.

    I inserted the tube again and will leave the tire this way for another week or two, my impression that the tire was new (it also sat in my garage for about half a year) and will need to be molded to its new "open" form, and then I will try again

    thanks for your help

    BTW, will tire inserts help in keeping the beads apart?

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by vichila View Post
    I tried all of the above with no results
    the natural tendency of the tire is to have its beads closer to one another. so if I apply presures from the outside then the tire just sinks deeply into the middle rim well.

    I inserted the tube again and will leave the tire this way for another week or two, my impression that the tire was new (it also sat in my garage for about half a year) and will need to be molded to its new "open" form, and then I will try again

    thanks for your help

    BTW, will tire inserts help in keeping the beads apart?
    But are you still using a gas-station? IMO, that's probably the culprit. You need to be able to deliver a good charge and pull the bead around a bit with both of your hands, impossible at the gas station unless you have help, but IME most of the psi coming out of those isn't very high anymore, not really using any high pressure holding tank, just a pump that doesn't seem to build very high pressure.

    Also, an air-compressor fitting can fit into the valve WITHOUT the presta valve core, delivering far more pressure than is possible the restricted presta or schrader valve core. The adapter, if you are using one at the gas-station, is another significant obstacle to delivering air pressure.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  16. #16
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    So looks like most of the advise I'd give was already given. Best to me is:
    1. Soap+water on the beads;
    2. Remove valve core;
    3. Put duct tape on the Presta valve that was left on the rim, to increase outer diameter, so to match diameter of a Schrader valve
    4. Use the air compressor with Schrader fitting, so no air leaks.

  17. #17
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    I agree with most of the stuff above and do think that it is just a bad setup situation. But a 2.3 tire on a 35mm internal seems like a small tire for that wide of a rim. That may make for a weird tire profile. Idk if those tires are true to size, but I would think that could be something that is exacerbating the problem.


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  18. #18
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    Have you attempted to inflate using CO2 cartridge(s)?

    Maybe not idea if you don't own a cartridge and inflator. Will be cheaper (likely) to take the tire to the shop before paying for more parts/tools.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forest Rider View Post
    Have you attempted to inflate using CO2 cartridge(s)?

    Maybe not idea if you don't own a cartridge and inflator. Will be cheaper (likely) to take the tire to the shop before paying for more parts/tools.
    If he doesn’t have that, he should definitely buy some since trying to reseat a tire trailside with a hand pump is sometimes impossible.


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  20. #20
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    I use a bungie cord or two instead of a ratchet strap. By the time I get a ratched strap tight enough to matter, it is so tight it won't give and it hinders the process. I stretch the bungee around tight, then I fiddle with the tire held flat against the rim to get most of the bead out of the valley in the middle of the rim. I remove the core and use a blow gun instead of a tire chuck for extra volume without restrictions. I can inflate stupid combinations with this method, like 3.8s on 90mm rims. A pre-inflated cheapo air tank is really better than any compressor in this case.

    I should state the bungies get much tighter as the tire inflates, and they can pop off violently, sometimes sideways. Don't do what I do, but if you, do wear protection. Like a heavy jacket, gloves, hearing protection, and a face shield. Really, it can get pretty dumb. I have scars.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by austink26 View Post
    If he doesn’t have that, he should definitely buy some since trying to reseat a tire trailside with a hand pump is sometimes impossible.

    That's what tubes are for

    I've had a bunch of flats but have yet to have a tire come unseated on the trail, if it did happen though I wouldn't think twice about grabbing my spare and popping it in. That's just me, with my luck if I tried it the other way I'd just end up wasting a co2 cartridge and still be left with a flat tire to fix, also I'd probably be covered in goo.

    Wait a minute, just remembered that did happen once. Tire came unseated after I installed a huge gash in it. Installed spare tube and moved on
    I brake for stinkbugs

  22. #22
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    I have 80mm mulefut rims that were mounted tubeless last fall by a wheel builder. During the summer both tires went flat while hanging - un-noticed since I was riding other bikes. Turns out the builder used 45mm wide pipe wrapping tape. Where the tape overlapped crossing the large rim holes the sealant seeped between tape allowing air to escape at almost every rim hole.

    I've cleaned the rim and have Sun ringle 78mm rim tape. Question - the rim strips seem to be in good condition, can I clean them up and reuse them or should I order new strips? This is the first time I'm doing this work myself... Thanks

  23. #23
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    Or this. Just make sure you won't burn your eyebrows.


  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by russinthecascades View Post
    I have 80mm mulefut rims that were mounted tubeless last fall by a wheel builder. During the summer both tires went flat while hanging - un-noticed since I was riding other bikes. Turns out the builder used 45mm wide pipe wrapping tape. Where the tape overlapped crossing the large rim holes the sealant seeped between tape allowing air to escape at almost every rim hole.

    I've cleaned the rim and have Sun ringle 78mm rim tape. Question - the rim strips seem to be in good condition, can I clean them up and reuse them or should I order new strips? This is the first time I'm doing this work myself... Thanks
    In case someone else asks the same question - there was no problem reusing the rim strips. They cleaned up nicely with alcohol and were still tight to rim after installation.

    Keys to getting the tires sealed:

    - used single layer of rim tape in the correct width for the rim (78mm tape on 80mm rim)
    - cinched a nylon strap around the center of the tire to pressure it outward
    - hand pulled the tire bead close to the rim
    - blasted air with a Schwalbe tire booster
    - achieved an almost complete seal, so hand pumping to 20 psi made it pop the rest of the way
    - added Stans through valve stem and reinflated

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