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  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by krelldog View Post
    You noticed more drag on the noisy pawls vs the quiet ones?
    I guess not. Didn't even think about that until you asked.

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  2. #102
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    I'm running P321's magnetic engagement with the loud free hub. These have been bullet proof and hands down my favorite hubs. My bearings have out lasted my buddy's i9's and they engage quicker.

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by pumpkinbiter View Post

    With our move we purchased our own EDM machine that will allow us to better control this process and avoid having issues like this again.

    The new EDM is making parts but there is still heat treating, magnet bonding, etc.
    Not every one here is into machining jargon. My assumption is that you're referring to electrical discharge machining.

    Perhaps pumpkinbiter can share what this fine piece of equipment does?
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  4. #104
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    Has anyone got replacement pawls yet or heard back from P321? I email a couple weeks ago and haven't had any response. I'm having the same occasional popping under load from the rear hub. I'll try calling this week.

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScottW View Post
    Has anyone got replacement pawls yet or heard back from P321? I email a couple weeks ago and haven't had any response. I'm having the same occasional popping under load from the rear hub. I'll try calling this week.
    I emailed Jake on Friday but no response yet.

  6. #106
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    Yeah I went through the folks that built my wheels, he said they were waiting and I could tell by his voice he was a bit irritated that it was taking so long. I asked for a set of the loud pawls in the mean time.

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by bvader View Post
    Yeah I went through the folks that built my wheels, he said they were waiting and I could tell by his voice he was a bit irritated that it was taking so long. I asked for a set of the loud pawls in the mean time.
    I'm ok with waiting if I can at least get a response. I sent another email through the website today.

  8. #108
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    Iím in the same boat, built a new SS in late July with G2 216 POE Quite pawl hubs. I noticed an occasional pop immediately. I finished my season with a 100 mile and a 12 hour on these wheels and plenty of long rides until winter hit. The poping progressively got worse as mileage went up. I thought it was a chain alignment issue too, measured my chain line 3X it was spot on. I changed from a 9 speed to an 11 speed chain for better retention, no luck. New Wolf Tooth chain ring & cog (so much less $ than a new 11 or 12 speed cassette, besides I donít mind having even more gear options). Not a drive train problem. I disassembled the hub during the process & found very small slivers that had come off the square edge of the pawls where they engage the drive ring. A few pawls showed a slightly rounded or chamfered edge as opposed to a crisp square edge. No visible drive ring damage. My hub had grease from the factory. I clean 80% of it out and lubed it like my I9 hubs (a drop on each pawl & 1 drop every 120 degrees on the drive ring). Reassemble and beat the hell out of it. Still popping & getting worse. I almost bought a new frame thinking it was frame flex causing a chain alignment problem, because I couldnít identify a visible problem with the free hub. But deep down I knew it was in the hub. I finally decided to call P321 & spoke with a very nice lady who seemed to be genuinely concerned. I sent in some pictures of the slivers I found in the hub & some details. A while later I had a message from Jake. I returned his call and was apologized to for the delay b/c they had just moved to Bend. Jake was very helpful and truly interested and concerned about my situation. He took a lot of time talking to me explaining about the QC problem with the pawls and that they have just moved production internal.

    I have been on I9 wheels for many years on all my bikes and am a true believer in their products and I9 as a company & will always be. But with that said I was tired of listening to that loud free hub over the course of a 12, 24 hour or 100 mile ride. Being a single speed rider a high POE is a must so is a very low drag hub! P321 seemed like the answer, & if they can resolve this pawl issue it will be. Based on the little experience I have with the few people representing P321 I have the upmost confidence that it will be resolved. I do my best to support small American companies like I9 & P321. I also understand that all companies have growing pains especially when bringing a totally new design to market. I donít mind being patient and willing to help them out with testing or trying new products. If anything it helps me become more knowledgeable so I can help my friends make educated decisions.

    I am not affiliated with P321, or I9 in any way. Just an average consumer who really has to work OT & save up to afford boutique products, I am by no means well off. But I think if we all are patient, and try to put ourselves in P321ís shoes for a moment to realize how time consuming it is to develop a trouble free product it will pay off with an excellent product that is quite unique.

    Or maybe they will drop the ball and Iíll be eating my words... But I hope not - HA!

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbell View Post
    Iím in the same boat, built a new SS in late July with G2 216 POE Quite pawl hubs. I noticed an occasional pop immediately. I finished my season with a 100 mile and a 12 hour on these wheels and plenty of long rides until winter hit. The poping progressively got worse as mileage went up. I thought it was a chain alignment issue too, measured my chain line 3X it was spot on. I changed from a 9 speed to an 11 speed chain for better retention, no luck. New Wolf Tooth chain ring & cog (so much less $ than a new 11 or 12 speed cassette, besides I donít mind having even more gear options). Not a drive train problem. I disassembled the hub during the process & found very small slivers that had come off the square edge of the pawls where they engage the drive ring. A few pawls showed a slightly rounded or chamfered edge as opposed to a crisp square edge. No visible drive ring damage. My hub had grease from the factory. I clean 80% of it out and lubed it like my I9 hubs (a drop on each pawl & 1 drop every 120 degrees on the drive ring). Reassemble and beat the hell out of it. Still popping & getting worse. I almost bought a new frame thinking it was frame flex causing a chain alignment problem, because I couldnít identify a visible problem with the free hub. But deep down I knew it was in the hub. I finally decided to call P321 & spoke with a very nice lady who seemed to be genuinely concerned. I sent in some pictures of the slivers I found in the hub & some details. A while later I had a message from Jake. I returned his call and was apologized to for the delay b/c they had just moved to Bend. Jake was very helpful and truly interested and concerned about my situation. He took a lot of time talking to me explaining about the QC problem with the pawls and that they have just moved production internal.

    I have been on I9 wheels for many years on all my bikes and am a true believer in their products and I9 as a company & will always be. But with that said I was tired of listening to that loud free hub over the course of a 12, 24 hour or 100 mile ride. Being a single speed rider a high POE is a must so is a very low drag hub! P321 seemed like the answer, & if they can resolve this pawl issue it will be. Based on the little experience I have with the few people representing P321 I have the upmost confidence that it will be resolved. I do my best to support small American companies like I9 & P321. I also understand that all companies have growing pains especially when bringing a totally new design to market. I donít mind being patient and willing to help them out with testing or trying new products. If anything it helps me become more knowledgeable so I can help my friends make educated decisions.

    I am not affiliated with P321, or I9 in any way. Just an average consumer who really has to work OT & save up to afford boutique products, I am by no means well off. But I think if we all are patient, and try to put ourselves in P321ís shoes for a moment to realize how time consuming it is to develop a trouble free product it will pay off with an excellent product that is quite unique.

    Or maybe they will drop the ball and Iíll be eating my words... But I hope not - HA!
    I believe in P321 as well. Hopefully they will have a resolution by April as it's now winter here in MN. May i ask what kind of grease did you use on the P321 hub?

  10. #110
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    Put in the noisey high engagement pawls. Seem to work fine. However their communication sucks in every way.

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  11. #111
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    I sent an e-mail a while back and Jake got back to me within 24 hours. He said the new pawls were in the works and he would send them out as soon as they were ready. No word on when they will be on their way, but I'm waiting patiently.
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  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by krelldog View Post
    I believe in P321 as well. Hopefully they will have a resolution by April as it's now winter here in MN. May i ask what kind of grease did you use on the P321 hub?
    I did not use any grease as I didn't have any Dumonde Tech grease which is what I think they use at the factory now. I cleaned most of the grease out (just left the holes in the hub body full of grease) and used Dumonde Tech free hub oil.

  13. #113
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    My 321 rear hub free wheels with a lot more drag than when new. When I spin it in my garage it comes to a stop after about three turns. It used to spend much longer.

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  14. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by Suns_PSD View Post
    My 321 rear hub free wheels with a lot more drag than when new. When I spin it in my garage it comes to a stop after about three turns. It used to spend much longer.
    Captain obvious here, are you sure it's not your brake rubbing?
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  15. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by Suns_PSD View Post
    My 321 rear hub free wheels with a lot more drag than when new. When I spin it in my garage it comes to a stop after about three turns. It used to spend much longer.

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    I highly doubt it's a hub issue unless it's broken.

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  16. #116
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    Thought I'd update that I emailed Project 321 again yesterday (Sunday) and Jake got back to me in a few hours. After supplying him with the information he needed Jake advised that they will get new pawls sent out as soon as they have them. I was very pleased to get such a fast response and on a weekend.

  17. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by *OneSpeed* View Post
    Captain obvious here, are you sure it's not your brake rubbing?
    Yes Sir. But I'll double check.
    Thanks.

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  18. #118
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    It's good to hear that you've had a fast response in the communication arena, but let's see how long it takes to get the new pawls.
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  19. #119
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    I have a buddy thatís getting a new Niner with a custom built P321 hub Wheelset. He gets stuff direct since heís hooked up as the Pres. Of CORBA an IMBA chapter. Anyway he said that the 216 POE only comes in loud version. Iím just wondering because Iím interested in the silent version for a new SS hubset and definitely want the higher 216 POE.
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  20. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by hardmtnbiker View Post
    Iím just wondering because Iím interested in the silent version for a new SS hubset and definitely want the higher 216 POE.
    I don't think they offer this as a 'Silent' version, just the quieter version with 2.5⁰ 144 POE.
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  21. #121
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    You can order your hub in either configuration as far as I'm aware. If you go to the website it allows you to choose either option.

    https://project321.com/product/boost-rear-hub/
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  22. #122
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    Mine is a 216 POE quiet hub, ordered it in late July.

  23. #123
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    So the leaky hub was just a one hub issues? People are still waiting for the new pawls?

    I really liked my I9 but it was just to loud, sounded awesome but couldnt have conversations unless I was pedaling. The 321 opting for quiet might be just what I am after. Pending these issues get fixed.

  24. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by machine4321 View Post
    The 321 opting for quiet might be just what I am after. Pending these issues get fixed.
    I'm pretty sure they are fixed, it's just a few of the early hubs that had non-terminal problems. One was the seal (resolved a while ago) and one was the pawls. The way it was explained to me was that they had one bad shipment of pawls that got mixed in with good pawls so no way to track the bad ones.

    I have complete confidence that Jake will make it right. It's still an excellent product.
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  25. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by *OneSpeed* View Post
    I'm pretty sure they are fixed, it's just a few of the early hubs that had non-terminal problems. One was the seal (resolved a while ago) and one was the pawls. The way it was explained to me was that they had one bad shipment of pawls that got mixed in with good pawls so no way to track the bad ones.

    I have complete confidence that Jake will make it right. It's still an excellent product.
    New pawls are not out yet.

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  26. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by bogeydog View Post
    New pawls are not out yet.
    I'm aware, I'm one of the guys waiting for them. What I was saying is that new hubs are not shipping with bad pawls.
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  27. #127
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    I sent an e-mail this morning after being reminded by this thread, Jake got back to me this afternoon. The customer service continues to be excellent, my new parts should be on their way next week.
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  28. #128
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    Good to hear!

  29. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by *OneSpeed* View Post
    I sent an e-mail this morning after being reminded by this thread, Jake got back to me this afternoon. The customer service continues to be excellent, my new parts should be on their way next week.

    New parts as in new quiet pawls? I feel like there hasn't been a clear or even fuzzy expected date communicated yet for new/replacement pawls.

  30. #130
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    Poor customer service continues.... I was one of the first that had issues with the pawls. Took 4 weeks to get any response by email or phone. They were to send me temporary pawls until new ones were done. 2 weeks later nothing. Called and they dropped the ball and sent out temp balls. Nothing since. Sent new email and no response. I have had sets of their old version hubs and was a great proponent. Now they suck and I wish I had gone another direction.



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  31. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by *OneSpeed* View Post
    I'm pretty sure they are fixed, it's just a few of the early hubs that had non-terminal problems. One was the seal (resolved a while ago) and one was the pawls. The way it was explained to me was that they had one bad shipment of pawls that got mixed in with good pawls so no way to track the bad ones.

    I have complete confidence that Jake will make it right. It's still an excellent product.
    I would say this is wrong. Mine isn't an early hub at all. Bought in Oct. If ones without the issue are in existence, then why not pull the good pawls from these hubs and send to customers with issues?

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  32. #132
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    Not intending a thread hijack, but for the fellas running the loud hubs, any skipping/popping issues?

  33. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScottW View Post
    Has anyone got replacement pawls yet or heard back from P321? I email a couple weeks ago and haven't had any response. I'm having the same occasional popping under load from the rear hub. I'll try calling this week.

    Just got the replacement parts from P321 yesterday but I have changed the parts yet. I have the quiet pawls version, btw. Does anyone know any difference between Dumonde Tech Pro X Freehub oil grease and Dumonde Tech Freehub oil grease? Which one should be used on the P321 hub?

  34. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScottW View Post
    Has anyone got replacement pawls yet or heard back from P321? I email a couple weeks ago and haven't had any response. I'm having the same occasional popping under load from the rear hub. I'll try calling this week.
    <br>

    Just got the replacement parts from P321 yesterday but I have not swapped out the parts yet. I have the quiet pawls version, btw. Does anyone know any difference between Dumonde Tech Pro X Freehub oil grease and Dumonde Tech Freehub oil grease? Which one should be used on the P321 hub?

  35. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by krelldog View Post
    <br>

    Just got the replacement parts from P321 yesterday but I have not swapped out the parts yet. I have the quiet pawls version, btw. Does anyone know any difference between Dumonde Tech Pro X Freehub oil grease and Dumonde Tech Freehub oil grease? Which one should be used on the P321 hub?
    Please clarify, you received *new* quiet pawls or new loud pawls?

  36. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by bvader View Post
    Please clarify, you received *new* quiet pawls or new loud pawls?

    The invoice says "quiet pawls".

  37. #137
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    @krelldog Thanks that is good to hear

  38. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by bvader View Post
    @krelldog Thanks that is good to hear
    No problem sir but unfortunately I can't test the wheel until mid April as it's winter here in MN.

  39. #139
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    I should have mine installed next week.

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  40. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by krelldog View Post
    Does anyone know any difference between Dumonde Tech Pro X Freehub oil grease and Dumonde Tech Freehub oil grease?

    Which one should be used on the P321 hub?
    One is a light grease on the viscosity level of Lubriplate #105.

    The oil is an oil, not a grease. It's a relatively light oil.

    As far as what Project 321 outlines for service, I have no idea. Their technical documents department is fundamentally nonexistent from what I've been able to determine.

    However, aside from the magnets, these freehubs function much like any other pawled freehub and I would make my selection of freehub lubricant based on your riding environment. Either grease or oil should work just fine, but I prolly wouldn't use grease in the winter though.
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    Good to hear they are shipping out. Hopefully Ill see mine before the snow melts! Are you guys planning on using the grease or Dumonde Tech oil? All I have is oil and feel like that should be fine. Just wanted to get a feel for what everyone is going to do. When I asked Jake @ P321 he didn't make it seem like it really mattered all that much. FWIW I have the quite pawls but I'm not too concerned if they are a little louder with oil as opposed to grease.

  42. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbell View Post
    Good to hear they are shipping out. Hopefully Ill see mine before the snow melts! Are you guys planning on using the grease or Dumonde Tech oil? All I have is oil and feel like that should be fine. Just wanted to get a feel for what everyone is going to do. When I asked Jake @ P321 he didn't make it seem like it really mattered all that much. FWIW I have the quite pawls but I'm not too concerned if they are a little louder with oil as opposed to grease.
    They are sending out oil with the new parts I believe. I spoke to them today and really expressed my disappointment with their handling of this situation plus there constant poor communication. I will spare you the story, but they haven't been the quality company they have been in the past. I think their expansion has caused some real growing pains.

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  43. #143
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    The more that I think about the magnets and their function, I would prefer to be using a light, less restrictive lubricant like oil over the thicker grease to begin with. This thought would be reinforced by winter temps and use of a light lubricant.
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  44. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbell View Post
    Good to hear they are shipping out. Hopefully Ill see mine before the snow melts! Are you guys planning on using the grease or Dumonde Tech oil? All I have is oil and feel like that should be fine. Just wanted to get a feel for what everyone is going to do. When I asked Jake @ P321 he didn't make it seem like it really mattered all that much. FWIW I have the quite pawls but I'm not too concerned if they are a little louder with oil as opposed to grease.
    The replacement parts include a bottle of oil.

  45. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cleared2land View Post
    The more that I think about the magnets and their function, I would prefer to be using a light, less restrictive lubricant like oil over the thicker grease to begin with. This thought would be reinforced by winter temps and use of a light lubricant.
    My thoughts exactly. #1 is free moving pawls, #2 is everything else IMO any kind of grease is going to add unnecessary drag or "stiction" to the pawls. Ill take a properly operating hub over a slightly quieter one any day!

  46. #146
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    I got my replacement pawls and ring drive today, they also included a new seal and a bottle of oil. I've been very happy with the customer service P321 has provided, I love these hubs and I'm sure the problem will be resolved once I install these parts.

  47. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScottW View Post
    I got my replacement pawls and ring drive today, they also included a new seal and a bottle of oil. I've been very happy with the customer service P321 has provided, I love these hubs and I'm sure the problem will be resolved once I install these parts.
    Feel free to post your installation experience especially the drive ring, not sure how to do that...pawls seem pretty straight forward.

  48. #148
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    My assumption (for most hubs that I'm aware of) you need a ring drive removal/installation tool.
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  49. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScottW View Post
    I got my replacement pawls and ring drive today, they also included a new seal and a bottle of oil. I've been very happy with the customer service P321 has provided, I love these hubs and I'm sure the problem will be resolved once I install these parts.
    I'm right there with ya Scott. My pawls arrived today also and I too have been very happy with the customer service from P321. I have no problem with a company having an issue with a product as long as they handle it like P321 has. They have been completely up front and honest with me about the issue, they never tried to bull shit me or have me chase my tail checking other possible sources of the popping noise while they were getting replacement parts sorted out (like I have seen first hand from other companies). They offered me temporary pawls to keep me rolling if needed.

    Long story short I am very happy and as long as this minor issue is resolved my next wheel set will be spinning around P321 hubs for sure. I would like to thank Jake and Joely for their sincere concern for their customers satisfaction.

    I cant wait for the snow to melt so I can try the new pawls out! I look forward to hearing from those who have the new ones installed and how they are working.

  50. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by bvader View Post
    Feel free to post your installation experience especially the drive ring, not sure how to do that...pawls seem pretty straight forward.
    P321 shipped the drive ring tool to remove the drive ring. I tried to remove it myself but it was impossible. Long story short...after the vikes got annihilated by the eagles this sunday, we all got so pissed and angry so I asked 2 friends to help me removing the ring. It took 2 guys to hold the wheel down and 1 strong guy with a huge wrench to finally get the ring removed. I applied some anti-seize to the new ring before putting it back in. Big thumb up to P321 for proving excellent customer service. Now i have to wait till spring to test out the rear hub.

  51. #151
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    Next question is...

    Even though they provided a new ring gear, was it really necessary to remove and replace?

    Was there a design change that specifically required replacement of the ring gear?

    I'm doubting it.
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  52. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cleared2land View Post
    Even though they provided a new ring gear, was it really necessary to remove and replace?

    Was there a design change that specifically required replacement of the ring gear?

    I'm doubting it.
    The new ring looked exactly the same as the old one. I chose to replace it anyway. So basically I put in new ring, new driver and new pawls. Oh, make sure you remove all the grease and use only oil in those holes.

  53. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by krelldog View Post
    The new ring looked exactly the same as the old one. I chose to replace it anyway. So basically I put in new ring, new driver and new pawls. Oh, make sure you remove all the grease and use only oil in those holes.
    Did you have any visible damage like a slight rounding or anything to the drive ring teeth?

  54. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by krelldog View Post
    The new ring looked exactly the same as the old one. I chose to replace it anyway. So basically I put in new ring, new driver and new pawls. Oh, make sure you remove all the grease and use only oil in those holes.
    Did they say to remove the grease?

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  55. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by krelldog View Post
    P321 shipped the drive ring tool to remove the drive ring. I tried to remove it myself but it was impossible. Long story short...after the vikes got annihilated by the eagles this sunday, we all got so pissed and angry so I asked 2 friends to help me removing the ring. It took 2 guys to hold the wheel down and 1 strong guy with a huge wrench to finally get the ring removed. I applied some anti-seize to the new ring before putting it back in. Big thumb up to P321 for proving excellent customer service. Now i have to wait till spring to test out the rear hub.
    Placed tool in freezer. Held tool in bench vice. Placed wheel hub down onto tool and rotated counter clockwise. Took 2 people even with this setup. Cold tool helped shrink ring so could be removed.

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    Last edited by bogeydog; 01-23-2018 at 06:05 AM.

  56. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by bogeydog View Post
    Did they say to remove the grease?

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    Yes. Remove all grease from the holes and replace it with oil. Only apply a bit of grease on the seals.

  57. #157
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    Just FYI. I received two Boost P321 rear hubs yesterday that I ordered a couple of weeks ago. These have the new "in house" produced pawls and ring gear. 216 POE, Quiet.

  58. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by *OneSpeed* View Post
    Captain obvious here, are you sure it's not your brake rubbing?
    You guys were completely right. I thought I had ruled out brake drag, but not thoroughly enough. Nothing wrong with The 321 Hub at all, even though it's not as silent as it once was.

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  59. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by Suns_PSD View Post
    You guys were completely right. I thought I had ruled out brake drag, but not thoroughly enough. Nothing wrong with The 321 Hub at all, even though it's not as silent as it once was.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk
    Yep, the new hub is definitely louder than the old one. Installed mine 2 days ago.

  60. #160
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    I just installed my new drive ring and pawls. There was no volume of oil in the hub, apparently it had leaked out. I did notice the hub got a little louder, but only slightly.

    I found some fairly serious metal slivers that had chipped off the pawls and drive ring. Cleaned out the old grease and added the new oil. It is now practically silent again.

    Pic of the slivers that were stuck to the magnets.

    New Project 321 rear hub leaking oil. Now sounds much louder.-img_6440.jpg
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  61. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by *OneSpeed* View Post
    I just installed my new drive ring and pawls. There was no volume of oil in the hub, apparently it had leaked out. I did notice the hub got a little louder, but only slightly.

    I found some fairly serious metal slivers that had chipped off the pawls and drive ring. Cleaned out the old grease and added the new oil. It is now practically silent again.

    Pic of the slivers that were stuck to the magnets.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Yt?

    Did the new parts fix the popping noise and slippage? I only had a chance to ride it around the block and it seemed to fix the issue.

  62. #162
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    For anyone having trouble removing the drive ring here's what I did. Remove your disk brake rotor (so you don't bend it) and lay wheel flat with drive side up. Use an impact wrench with a 1 1/2" socket for the drive ring tool and it should break free fairly easily. I knelt on the tire to hold the wheel which was plenty of force.

  63. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by krelldog View Post
    Yt?

    Did the new parts fix the popping noise and slippage? I only had a chance to ride it around the block and it seemed to fix the issue.
    what's YT??

    IDK if it's fixed honestly. It's winter here so wasn't planning on riding it again until spring, but there's a break in the weather the next few days. I could take it for a quick rip on some hills.
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  64. #164
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    I installed my ring drive and pawls, cleaned out the lube in the hub and replaced it with the supplied oil. I was able to get a good ride in yesterday and had no issues with the rear hub. I don't know if it's because of the oil vs lube but the hub is quieter than before, as in no noise from it when freewheeling.
    Last edited by ScottW; 01-29-2018 at 09:33 AM.

  65. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScottW View Post
    I installed my ring drive and pawls, cleaned out the lube in the hub and replaced it with the supplied oil. I was able to get a good ride in yesterday and had no issues with the rear hub. I dohiin't know if it's because of the oil vs lube but the hub is quieter than before, as in no noise from it when freewheeling.
    I had the opposite experience from you, Scott. My hub with the new drive ring, XD driver and pawls are much louder than before. I even sent a recording of it to Jake and he said that's loud. I was on the phone with Lars at P321 and went over my installation and seems like everything was installed correctly. Actually I don't mind the loud sound as I'm used to the CK sound on my other bike.

  66. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by krelldog View Post
    I had the opposite experience from you, Scott. My hub with the new drive ring, XD driver and pawls are much louder than before. I even sent a recording of it to Jake and he said that's loud. I was on the phone with Lars at P321 and went over my installation and seems like everything was installed correctly. Actually I don't mind the loud sound as I'm used to the CK sound on my other bike.
    That's odd, my hub was previously pretty quiet but now is basically silent.

  67. #167
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    Anyone been able to get some miles in with the new pawls? It going to be a while before I can get out on mine. But the new pawls look much better than the originals, so I am optimistic!

  68. #168
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    I've done several rides since replacing the ring drive and pawls. Zero issues, no more popping noise from the rear end and using the freehub oil rather than grease has made my hub virtually silent.

  69. #169
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    Right on Scott, great to hear! Did you lubricate it like "normal" with just a drop on each pawl at the pivot and 3-4 drops on the drive ring? Or did you go heavier with the oil? Just curious, I normally just do a light lube.

  70. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbell View Post
    But the new pawls look much better than the originals, so I am optimistic!
    How do they look different? What physical changes can you depict?
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  71. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cleared2land View Post
    How do they look different? What physical changes can you depict?
    Better machining, the original had small burrs on the sides, the magnet depth was inconsistent with one magnet counter sunk. The new pawls look perfect, super smooth surface finish no burrs, all the magnets protrude the same amount. I measured the width of each and they are very consistent.

    Definitely improved!

    I noticed on my freehub body the old pawls dug into the driver some. Probably from the burrs. Couldnít have helped the popping from poor engagement.

  72. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbell View Post
    Right on Scott, great to hear! Did you lubricate it like "normal" with just a drop on each pawl at the pivot and 3-4 drops on the drive ring? Or did you go heavier with the oil? Just curious, I normally just do a light lube.
    With the hub set on it's side I filled each hole in the shell inside the ring drive with oil then installed the freehub.

  73. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScottW View Post
    With the hub set on it's side I filled each hole in the shell inside the ring drive with oil then installed the freehub.
    See any sign of leaks yet? Not that I think it would, just curious (as to the point of this thread).

  74. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbell View Post
    See any sign of leaks yet? Not that I think it would, just curious (as to the point of this thread).
    No, no signs of oil leaking out.

  75. #175
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    Any new updates? I have one waiting to go on build as the rims are back ordered. Thinking of changing to something else but what?

  76. #176
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    Anyone else get the new pawls... mine are supposed to be coming from my Wheels OEM but they are apparently waiting.
    Meanwhile I am waiting..waiting...waiting...pedaling...popping... pedaling... popping...waiting

  77. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by bvader View Post
    Anyone else get the new pawls...
    Yes, if you look back a few posts there are many of us that have them installed.
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  78. #178
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    I just replaced my drive ring yesterday and figured I would give a bit of advice on the subject. A little background, I am a diesel mechanic (industrial engine, over the road truck engines, marine engines, not automotive stuff) so I am well versed in all things mechanical and very familiar with high torque applications. That being said the drive rings can be a bit difficult to remove, mainly because there is no great way of holding the wheel. I initially tried to remove mine with a 1.5" socket on a 1/2" drive ratchet that is 3.5 feet long, I could not brake it free (mainly because I was having a difficult time holding the wheel. Next I tried my 1/2" drive pneumatic impact wrench (that I use all the time to remove high torque bolts) it would not brake the drive ring free, I almost tried my 3/4" impact but was afraid of damaging the wheel. So I ended up doing what a few other posted in this thread and it worked well. I chucked the drive ring tool in a bench vise and had a friend grab the wheel with me and turn the wheel. It took quite a bit of force but the ring broke free. I did have to re tension a few spokes after as they saw quite a bit of stress.

    Just a FYI for anyone about to give this a go...

  79. #179
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbell View Post
    I just replaced my drive ring yesterday and figured I would give a bit of advice on the subject. A little background, I am a diesel mechanic (industrial engine, over the road truck engines, marine engines, not automotive stuff) so I am well versed in all things mechanical and very familiar with high torque applications. That being said the drive rings can be a bit difficult to remove, mainly because there is no great way of holding the wheel. I initially tried to remove mine with a 1.5" socket on a 1/2" drive ratchet that is 3.5 feet long, I could not brake it free (mainly because I was having a difficult time holding the wheel. Next I tried my 1/2" drive pneumatic impact wrench (that I use all the time to remove high torque bolts) it would not brake the drive ring free, I almost tried my 3/4" impact but was afraid of damaging the wheel. So I ended up doing what a few other posted in this thread and it worked well. I chucked the drive ring tool in a bench vise and had a friend grab the wheel with me and turn the wheel. It took quite a bit of force but the ring broke free. I did have to re tension a few spokes after as they saw quite a bit of stress.

    Just a FYI for anyone about to give this a go...

    I have 3 sets 216 quiet, Jake is sending me all the parts necessary, drive rings, seals and Pawlís. My oil of choice ďChain-LĒ keeps things very quiet and easy to service. Grease is definitely not necessary, It just gets trapped inside the holes. Iím a big Phil Wood fan so I use all their bearings for my Project 321 Hubs Except for the last set that I have that shipped with the new black seal Japanese bearings. Same bearing that Hadley has been using for years. I didnít feel the need to swap out those bearings since Iíd like them. I use Chain-L lube with great results very quiet and just a great lubricant. Smells like gear oil but not as thick viscosity wise! Iím going to heat up the hub with a hair dryer helping to loosen up the Loctite thatís probably on the drive ring.

    Any concerns that I have ever had Jake as always addressed them.

  80. #180
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    Oh no. I recently purchased a new wheel set from a west coast builder. The 321 hubs have been removed from their web site. I asked what happened and they said the in the last few days, they have experienced numerous failures of the pawls on the quiet model and even the front hubs were failing. So my custom build is just arriving and I have no useable wheels. After waiting 9 weeks for my new bike, now I have to wait even longer to sort this mess out. Disappointing.

  81. #181
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emdexpress View Post
    Oh no. I recently purchased a new wheel set from a west coast builder. The 321 hubs have been removed from their web site. I asked what happened and they said the in the last few days, they have experienced numerous failures of the pawls on the quiet model and even the front hubs were failing. So my custom build is just arriving and I have no useable wheels. After waiting 9 weeks for my new bike, now I have to wait even longer to sort this mess out. Disappointing.
    Not everyone has had a problem. There was one bad batch last year, I've not heard of any issues since then. You may not have any problem at all.

    Are your hubs new?
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  82. #182
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    I was aware of the previous issues. My hub was built after the fix and bought after I was assured all issues were resolved. So just in the last few days, the wheel builder took the hubs off their site and told me at this time there is no fix they are aware of plus they also saw failures in the front hub. Not the fault of the builder but I need a new wheel set quick. I have not even mounted the wheels on any bike. All brand new bought two months ago. Most likely I will have my lbs sell and mount new hubs I must buy and I will send the 321 back for a full refund. I will burn for the labor for sure. Not the start I was looking for. To be clear here, the builder said it was only the quiet pawls that was having the failures but then there is the front hub failure they have seen too.

  83. #183
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    Define exactly what a front hub failure means.
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  84. #184
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    I wish I New. I failed to inquire about as I more concerned with the rear. But as a great news story the wheel builder is taking the original wheel set including the rubber back for a full refund. In addition they are building a complete new set with modded DT Swiss 240 hubs and lighter and faster tires. They committed to build and ship the wheels out on Monday. Really could not ask for more. I am disappointed in not owning the 321 Hubs but I have no time for failure. I will be buying more from this west coaster builder. Oh, I will ask them soon what the failure on the front hubs are. Safe Travels!

  85. #185
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emdexpress View Post
    I wish I New. I failed to inquire about as I more concerned with the rear. But as a great news story the wheel builder is taking the original wheel set including the rubber back for a full refund. In addition they are building a complete new set with modded DT Swiss 240 hubs and lighter and faster tires. They committed to build and ship the wheels out on Monday. Really could not ask for more. I am disappointed in not owning the 321 Hubs but I have no time for failure. I will be buying more from this west coaster builder. Oh, I will ask them soon what the failure on the front hubs are. Safe Travels!
    Call Jake at P321. He may have a different solution.

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  86. #186
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    Quote Originally Posted by bogeydog View Post
    Call Jake at P321. He may have a different solution.

    Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
    Hi, cwould you let us know the name of this West coast builder? I might need a custom wheelset soon.

  87. #187
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    Quote Originally Posted by bogeydog View Post
    Call Jake at P321. He may have a different solution.

    Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
    I will give him a call Monday morning. Thanks.

  88. #188
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    Quote Originally Posted by krelldog View Post
    Hi, cwould you let us know the name of this West coast builder? I might need a custom wheelset soon.
    You have a PM.

  89. #189
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    What you using for P321 ring lube

    I Have a set of 2 month old hubs, been trying different lubes w only ok success.
    Dumond Tech hub oil, leaks all over the flange n spokes unless used very sparingly, same w Dumond Tech liquid grease. If I fill the holes the hubs are dead silent but leaky, I mean really leaky, use sparingly and the are a little noisy.

    Currently trying Chris King ring drive lube, hope it's a happy medium not too sticky but not too flowy.

    Please let me know your what fills them, doesn't leak and doesn't make the pawls stick.

  90. #190
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    @hojo quiet or loud Pawls?

  91. #191
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    Quote Originally Posted by HoJo View Post
    I Have a set of 2 month old hubs, been trying different lubes w only ok success.
    Dumond Tech hub oil, leaks all over the flange n spokes unless used very sparingly, same w Dumond Tech liquid grease. If I fill the holes the hubs are dead silent but leaky, I mean really leaky, use sparingly and the are a little noisy.

    Currently trying Chris King ring drive lube, hope it's a happy medium not too sticky but not too flowy.

    Please let me know your what fills them, doesn't leak and doesn't make the pawls stick.
    I've been using Dumond tech hub oil and no leak at all. But my quiet hub is now loud with buzzing sound. I actually don't mind this loud sound though. No slippage so far with the new pawls and ring.

  92. #192
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    Quote Originally Posted by bvader View Post
    @hojo quiet or loud Pawls?
    Quit. Even with low oil levels they are quiet compared to I9 or Hopes, on the level of
    Fresh serviced Chris Kings.

  93. #193
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    You are using too much oil, do it like any free hub: 3 drops on the drive ring and one drop where each pawl sits in the free hub that is all you need.

  94. #194
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    in the stand he can hear pawls, but its very quiet. Riding the bike I don't hear any noise at all.
    Life in every breath

  95. #195
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    I have 3 of the new hubs. All have become louder than they were initially. Still aren't "loud", but not silent like they were new.

  96. #196
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    Quote Originally Posted by coke View Post
    I have 3 of the new hubs. All have become louder tha
    n they were initially. Still aren't "loud", but not silent like they were new.
    That is exactly how my hub sounds after new pawls and drive ring. Not as loud as a CK or i9 but definitely audidible.

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  98. #198
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emdexpress View Post
    I wish I New. I failed to inquire about as I more concerned with the rear. But as a great news story the wheel builder is taking the original wheel set including the rubber back for a full refund. In addition they are building a complete new set with modded DT Swiss 240 hubs and lighter and faster tires. They committed to build and ship the wheels out on Monday. Really could not ask for more. I am disappointed in not owning the 321 Hubs but I have no time for failure. I will be buying more from this west coaster builder. Oh, I will ask them soon what the failure on the front hubs are. Safe Travels!
    NiCe! who's building your wheels on the west coast?

  99. #199
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    Any updates regarding these hubs?
    My repaired hub still leaks for some reason. The grease apparently separated and dripped down to the rim after sitting 3 months on my rack. Very frustrating.
    I'm shocked you guys running the oil don't have leaking issues.
    Thinking of going Onyx.

  100. #200
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scottyman View Post
    Any updates regarding these hubs?
    My repaired hub still leaks for some reason. The grease apparently separated and dripped down to the rim after sitting 3 months on my rack. Very frustrating.
    I'm shocked you guys running the oil don't have leaking issues.
    Thinking of going Onyx.
    My hub has had no oil in it for the 16 months I've owned it. I keep getting assured that a new seal is in the works but every time I ask when it will be available the date gets pushed back. It's pretty ridiculous at this point. Very frustrating.

    I'd shoot them an e-mail or give a call and get your name on the list for the new seal, which is supposed to be available soon...
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    Last Post: 12-06-2012, 06:45 PM

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