multiple XT M8100 hub failures- Mtbr.com
Results 1 to 104 of 104
  1. #1
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2020
    Posts
    29

    multiple XT M8100 hub failures

    Hi all, new to posting on the forum but have been reading product reviews on here for a while. I have had 2 of the new 12spd xt freehub mechanisms fail on me, and wanted to see if others have had the same experience. I built the hubs up to dt swiss xm481 rims with dt spokes as a solid set of trail/training wheels. I have had great success with shimano hubs in the past, so I saw no reason to spend more for a 350...

    I'll start by saying the new design is completely different to the old system that has been around forever. Its similar to a dt, with 2 springs and separate freehub body that runs on cartidge bearings. The ratchet mechanism is self contained in the freehub body and is not user serviceable. the hub shell has cup and cone on either side. side note, the front hub is identical to the previous model.

    The first failure happened within a couple weeks. I had the wheel off the bike, and it toppled over on the cassette side(hurts my soul to think about) and the cassette pulled the freehub out. At first I wasn't too concerned, thinking that they had finally copied dt swiss and made a tool free freehub. Then I realized that was not the case, as 2 small c-clips had popped out of place(one labeled DO NOT DISASSEMBLE) allowing the freehub mechanism to fall apart! I called shimano and explained what had happened. They were confused at how it fell apart, but walked me through how to reassemble it. After a few rides it started to creak like crazy(took me a couple weeks to figure out it was the hub), so I called shimano and they sent a whole new hub to my LBS under warranty.

    I rebuilt the wheel with the new hub, and it worked flawlessly for 2 months. fast engagement, smooth bearings at a great price! really the goldilocks hub for 12spd IMO. Then it tried to lock on and turn into a fixie. I had just pedalled to the end of the driveway and started to coast up to a stop sign, when it made a god awful grinding sound that scared the sh*t out of me. I proceeded to lock the rear brake and slide to a stop. Upon taking it apart back at home, I found the toothed plastic spacer(think it is a tolerance thing) was completely chewed up. I think part of it must have gotten jammed in the ratchet mechanism. The two cartidge bearings in the freebody were also totally shot. I put every back together without the spacer, and while the freehub didn't lock on anymore, the horrible creaking was back.

    Currently waiting on another warranty replacement, shimano maybe sending out an xtr hub. hopefully it doesn't break too.
    Last edited by nbb109; 05-26-2020 at 08:12 PM.

  2. #2
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2020
    Posts
    29
    here are some pictures, let me know if the drive link doesn't work.

    https://drive.google.com/drive/folde...yV?usp=sharing

  3. #3
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Millennial29erGuy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Posts
    1,648
    Hmmmm... subscribed

    my guess with the first one is that the freehub was disassembled and reassembled incorrectly. Not saying it was you, but I don't see any other way the freehub could come off the new hub

    the second one... I have no idea

    The plastic spacer that got chewed up, are you referring to part #10 on this diagram?
    https://si.shimano.com/pdfs/ev/EV-FH-M8110-4511.pdf

    There are metal shims behind the freehub body as well
    My name is George. I知 unemployed and I live with my parents.
    2017 BMC Speedfox 25-622 ISO
    2017 Salsa Timberjack 40-584 ISO

  4. #4
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Posts
    57
    What kind of disassembly did you do for the photos? I'm curious if you put the outer dust cover/c-clip thing (part 7 in the parts list) back into the hub shell? If you didn't and the photos are from after it fell apart I'd also lean to incorrect reassembly. To get the freehub off you need to remove the end cap and that c-clip to pull it apart.
    Giant Reign SX 29
    Ibis Ripley OG
    Santa Cruz Blur XCc

  5. #5
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2020
    Posts
    29
    Quote Originally Posted by Millennial29erGuy View Post
    Hmmmm... subscribed

    my guess with the first one is that the freehub was disassembled and reassembled incorrectly. Not saying it was you, but I don't see any other way the freehub could come off the new hub

    the second one... I have no idea

    The plastic spacer that got chewed up, are you referring to part #10 on this diagram?
    https://si.shimano.com/pdfs/ev/EV-FH-M8110-4511.pdf

    There are metal shims behind the freehub body as well
    yes, item 10 on the list. It's essentially a cheap bit of plastic to take up the slop between the splines in the hubshell and the freehub body. very similar to a centerlock disc rotor interface.

  6. #6
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2020
    Posts
    29
    Quote Originally Posted by meschenbruch View Post
    What kind of disassembly did you do for the photos? I'm curious if you put the outer dust cover/c-clip thing (part 7 in the parts list) back into the hub shell? If you didn't and the photos are from after it fell apart I'd also lean to incorrect reassembly. To get the freehub off you need to remove the end cap and that c-clip to pull it apart.
    meschenbruch, I took those pictures to send to the shimano rep to show how it fell apart. It is definitely not the way to disassemble it! c clips things(pic 1 and 2 in drive gallery) came unclipped/weren't assembled correctly at the factory(I hadn't touched it), allowing the cassette to pull apart the freehub unit. In the last picture, you can see the unit reassembled as per shimano's instructions. If you look closely you can see scrapes near the c clip interface, indicating where they popped out of place under the impact of the wheel falling over.

  7. #7
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2020
    Posts
    29
    While I appreciate the interest in trying to solve the problem meschenbruch and millennial guy, what I am really looking for is other owners experience with this new generation of shimano hubs. Believe me, me and the head mechanic at the LBS have both spent time trying to troubleshoot these issues with guidance from shimano. I can confidently say that I know how these hubs work and go together at this point. I took the hubs apart only after they developed the issues I laid out, meaning any potential issues with assembly causing the problems were done by shimano at the factory. My main objective of this thread is to get a bigger sample size of owners of these hubs(slx, xt and xtr), to see if I somehow got two defective ones, or if is a common thing.

  8. #8
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Posts
    57
    Fair enough, not trying to imply you've done something to the hub just trying to figure out the situation. I have one of those hubs ready to lace up, just waiting on spokes, so seeing other peoples experience is also in my interest (and i have a fresh hub at the moment!)
    Giant Reign SX 29
    Ibis Ripley OG
    Santa Cruz Blur XCc

  9. #9
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2020
    Posts
    29
    Quote Originally Posted by meschenbruch View Post
    Fair enough, not trying to imply you've done something to the hub just trying to figure out the situation. I have one of those hubs ready to lace up, just waiting on spokes, so seeing other peoples experience is also in my interest (and i have a fresh hub at the moment!)
    No worries! Based on my experience I wouldn't use the xt rear hub. Love the price and feel of them, shame they keep breaking on me. Front one is fine, same proven design as past models. Not sure if you can get a hold of the new deore hubs yet, but they looks promising. Tried and true standard pawl design by the looks of it.

  10. #10
    mbtr member
    Reputation: scottzg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    6,494
    Mine started making an awful racket after ~300 miles. I put triflow in the mechanism that says 'do not lubricate,' and its been running silently since.

    I posted about it- https://forums.mtbr.com/wheels-tires...n-1126885.html
    "Things that are complex are not useful, Things that are useful are simple."
    Mikhail Kalashnikov

  11. #11
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Millennial29erGuy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Posts
    1,648
    Quote Originally Posted by scottzg View Post
    Mine started making an awful racket after ~300 miles. I put triflow in the mechanism that says 'do not lubricate,' and its been running silently since.

    I posted about it- https://forums.mtbr.com/wheels-tires...n-1126885.html
    Does yours still disengage and go silent, or no?
    My name is George. I知 unemployed and I live with my parents.
    2017 BMC Speedfox 25-622 ISO
    2017 Salsa Timberjack 40-584 ISO

  12. #12
    mbtr member
    Reputation: scottzg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    6,494
    Quote Originally Posted by Millennial29erGuy View Post
    Does yours still disengage and go silent, or no?
    it's silent all the time.

    Look at the link, i explained in detail. At least to the limit of my understanding.
    "Things that are complex are not useful, Things that are useful are simple."
    Mikhail Kalashnikov

  13. #13
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Millennial29erGuy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Posts
    1,648
    I read the thread. The normal operation is for it to be silent only intermittently, that's why I'm asking.
    My name is George. I知 unemployed and I live with my parents.
    2017 BMC Speedfox 25-622 ISO
    2017 Salsa Timberjack 40-584 ISO

  14. #14
    mbtr member
    Reputation: scottzg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    6,494
    Quote Originally Posted by Millennial29erGuy View Post
    I read the thread. The normal operation is for it to be silent only intermittently, that's why I'm asking.
    With the plates lubed the hub is silent.

    Mine was missing the spacer that keeps the plates connected. The only other not-psyclence hub i've seen doesn't go silent intermittently, didn't start making a racket at 300 miles, and had that spacer.

    That's all i know, unfortunately.
    "Things that are complex are not useful, Things that are useful are simple."
    Mikhail Kalashnikov

  15. #15
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Millennial29erGuy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Posts
    1,648
    Quote Originally Posted by scottzg View Post
    With the plates lubed the hub is silent.

    Mine was missing the spacer that keeps the plates connected. The only other not-psyclence hub i've seen doesn't go silent intermittently, didn't start making a racket at 300 miles, and had that spacer.

    That's all i know, unfortunately.
    thanks! It's an interesting freehub design. Haven't been able to inspect one myself
    My name is George. I知 unemployed and I live with my parents.
    2017 BMC Speedfox 25-622 ISO
    2017 Salsa Timberjack 40-584 ISO

  16. #16
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2020
    Posts
    29
    Quote Originally Posted by scottzg View Post
    With the plates lubed the hub is silent.

    Mine was missing the spacer that keeps the plates connected. The only other not-psyclence hub i've seen doesn't go silent intermittently, didn't start making a racket at 300 miles, and had that spacer.

    That's all i know, unfortunately.
    thanks for the info scott, I really appreciate it! Be good to start generating some info on these hubs for others to find. Both on the hubs I have had were silent intermittently, the faster I went, the quieter they got. I also tried lubing the internals of the first hub that fell apart, on shimano's recommendation funnily enough! It temporarily stopped the creaking, and made it go silent at lower speeds, but still loud below 10mph(ish). after a few weeks the creak came back. What model of hub was the "other" not-syclence hub you were refering to?

    Was the spacer you were missing the slider(highlighted in red on your forum) on the back of the freehub unit or the toothed one that slots in between the splines? Both of mine had the slider spacer on the back in place, it gets pushed up into the slot by the spring and stays there for me. Any issues with the toothed spacer getting chewed up? Happened on both of my hubs.

  17. #17
    Professional Noob
    Reputation: eicca's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    678
    Following with interest. I just built a wheel with the SLX hub and put in a good month's MTB trip on it with zero issues so far. Don't know an exact number in miles.

    Mine also cuts in and out of ratchet/silent. Did this right out of the box.

    Hoping these don't end up being Shimano's Guide brakes because it's a fantastic hub and I really don't want to have to rebuild my wheel.
    => CannondaleExperts.com <=
    All the parts and accessories your Cannondale ever needs

  18. #18
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2020
    Posts
    29
    Quote Originally Posted by eicca View Post
    Following with interest. I just built a wheel with the SLX hub and put in a good month's MTB trip on it with zero issues so far. Don't know an exact number in miles.

    Mine also cuts in and out of ratchet/silent. Did this right out of the box.

    Hoping these don't end up being Shimano's Guide brakes because it's a fantastic hub and I really don't want to have to rebuild my wheel.
    good to hear!

  19. #19
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2020
    Posts
    29
    I wanted to give an update of what I've found on these hubs so far.

    1) Me, 2 xt hub's failed- one fell apart+creaking, second creaking+ tried to lock on. see first forum post.

    2)Scottzg, xt. Creaking+missing slider. see https://forums.mtbr.com/wheels-tires...n-1126885.html

    3) Eicca, SLX. No issues.

    4) NSMB magazine, XTR. Hub freewheeled in both directions in the cold/wet. 2 cases, the author and a commenter reported the same issue. (has great pics of internals)
    https://nsmb.com/articles/teardown-s...tr-m9100-hubs/

  20. #20
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    15
    subscribed & good luck fellas.
    I have a new XTR and SLX f/r set that I am planning on building up but will sit tight and see how this thread plays out. They were backups for when & if my stock wheelsets failed

  21. #21
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    607
    My slx is working perfectly fine after a few thousand km and through the winter with salt and slush. Not used much offroad though, so they haven't been thrashed torque wise.

    The intermittent ratcheting is the normal way of operation. They are only silent randomly when a combination of inertia and speed hits a sweet spot.

    The falling apart confuses me entirely. You need to use a wrench to remove the end cap before you can attempt to remove the freehub body.

  22. #22
    mbtr member
    Reputation: scottzg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    6,494
    Quote Originally Posted by scottzg View Post
    The only other not-psyclence hub i've seen doesn't go silent intermittently, didn't start making a racket at 300 miles, and had that spacer.
    This hub started creaking too, i found out. He lubed it like i did mine to cure it. Silent now.
    "Things that are complex are not useful, Things that are useful are simple."
    Mikhail Kalashnikov

  23. #23
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2020
    Posts
    29
    Quote Originally Posted by scottzg View Post
    This hub started creaking too, i found out. He lubed it like i did mine to cure it. Silent now.
    Good to hear. That worked temporarily for me, but my hubs had more that just the creaking issue. Have you had any problems with the toothed spacer that goes between the hubshell and freehub body? Mine were both chewed up, with missing and deformed teeth. Not surprising to me given they were delicate plastic bearing heavy pedaling load.

  24. #24
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2020
    Posts
    29
    Quote Originally Posted by smashysmashy View Post
    My slx is working perfectly fine after a few thousand km and through the winter with salt and slush. Not used much offroad though, so they haven't been thrashed torque wise.

    The intermittent ratcheting is the normal way of operation. They are only silent randomly when a combination of inertia and speed hits a sweet spot.

    The falling apart confuses me entirely. You need to use a wrench to remove the end cap before you can attempt to remove the freehub body.
    Glad yours is working well! I wonder if there is anything different in the internals of the slx hubs, I've only seen the insides of xt and xtr... But if it ain't broken, don't fix it!

    I was pretty sure that the intermittent noise was normal.

    Yeah, the falling apart was really strange. The cassettes are quite heavy, so if those c clips pop out the cassette is an effective slider hammer to pop the endcap off. The endcaps don't require much force to pull off, just like dt swiss ones.

  25. #25
    mbtr member
    Reputation: scottzg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    6,494
    Quote Originally Posted by nbb109 View Post
    Good to hear. That worked temporarily for me, but my hubs had more that just the creaking issue. Have you had any problems with the toothed spacer that goes between the hubshell and freehub body? Mine were both chewed up, with missing and deformed teeth. Not surprising to me given they were delicate plastic bearing heavy pedaling load.
    Name:  1307881d1579993313-shimano-scylence-information-slider.jpg
Views: 643
Size:  17.3 KB

    Are you talking about the part just to the right of the freehub body unit? I've never seen any damage to that. I think it just keeps the bits spaced evenly, it shouldn't be carrying a load?
    "Things that are complex are not useful, Things that are useful are simple."
    Mikhail Kalashnikov

  26. #26
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    607
    Quote Originally Posted by nbb109 View Post
    Glad yours is working well! I wonder if there is anything different in the internals of the slx hubs, I've only seen the insides of xt and xtr... But if it ain't broken, don't fix it!

    I was pretty sure that the intermittent noise was normal.

    Yeah, the falling apart was really strange. The cassettes are quite heavy, so if those c clips pop out the cassette is an effective slider hammer to pop the endcap off. The endcaps don't require much force to pull off, just like dt swiss ones.
    The end caps don't just "pull" off like DT. They have to be turned with a wrench. Not threaded, but they do need a twist.

  27. #27
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2020
    Posts
    29
    Quote Originally Posted by smashysmashy View Post
    The end caps don't just "pull" off like DT. They have to be turned with a wrench. Not threaded, but they do need a twist.
    Huh, mine pull straight off. Maybe a difference between xt/xtr and slx? Mine actually has flat faces that prevent the end cap from turning once it's popped on, see the upper right of the photo that scottzg posted, post #25.

  28. #28
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2020
    Posts
    29
    Quote Originally Posted by scottzg View Post
    Name:  1307881d1579993313-shimano-scylence-information-slider.jpg
Views: 643
Size:  17.3 KB

    Are you talking about the part just to the right of the freehub body unit? I've never seen any damage to that. I think it just keeps the bits spaced evenly, it shouldn't be carrying a load?
    Yes that's the one. You'd know if it was beat up the way mine was, couldn't put it back into place. I'm not sure it takes load, more of rocking as the the hub spline shift to engage, then unloading to allow freewheeling. Guess it's just mine. thanks for the reply!

  29. #29
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    607
    I think the xt and slx are basically identical except slx has a steel axle.
    When the end cap does on, theres a little "plastic clip" inside that needs a twist to release. Its been a while since I took mine off (I modded mine to 135qr)
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails multiple XT M8100 hub failures-slx_axle.jpg  


  30. #30
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2020
    Posts
    29
    The LBS finally got my wheel back from shimano warranty, 6.5 weeks later...(dang covid 19!) Much to my surprise, shimano included a generous care package. The orginal hub was fully rebuilt with a new freehub unit and new bearings, as well as including an extra freehub unit with all of the associated internal springs and spacers, and two pots of special grease. To top it all off, I even got a brand new cassette free of charge with nothing in the warranty about a cassette!!

    By the looks of it, they've updated the plastic toothed spacer to a different type of plastic. Also included were very specific instructions on how to rebuild/what to grease to stop the creaking if it happens again. seems they've updated the service guidelines in light of the creaking issue, asking for grease to be used in very specific locations on the splines. They thought the last freehub unit locked on because part of the broken toothed spacer was inside the ratchet mechanism. I've included pictures of everything they sent me, as well as scans of the instructions in the link below(can't upload images straight to the forum for some reason).

    https://drive.google.com/drive/folde...7r?usp=sharing

  31. #31
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2020
    Posts
    163
    Nice great info thx for sharing it!!

    Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

  32. #32
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Millennial29erGuy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Posts
    1,648
    Quote Originally Posted by nbb109 View Post
    The LBS finally got my wheel back from shimano warranty, 6.5 weeks later...(dang covid 19!) Much to my surprise, shimano included a generous care package. The orginal hub was fully rebuilt with a new freehub unit and new bearings, as well as including an extra freehub unit with all of the associated internal springs and spacers, and two pots of special grease. To top it all off, I even got a brand new cassette free of charge with nothing in the warranty about a cassette!!

    By the looks of it, they've updated the plastic toothed spacer to a different type of plastic. Also included were very specific instructions on how to rebuild/what to grease to stop the creaking if it happens again. seems they've updated the service guidelines in light of the creaking issue, asking for grease to be used in very specific locations on the splines. They thought the last freehub unit locked on because part of the broken toothed spacer was inside the ratchet mechanism. I've included pictures of everything they sent me, as well as scans of the instructions in the link below(can't upload images straight to the forum for some reason).

    https://drive.google.com/drive/folde...7r?usp=sharing
    Very nice... you are lucky because that grease is still in very limited supply
    My name is George. I知 unemployed and I live with my parents.
    2017 BMC Speedfox 25-622 ISO
    2017 Salsa Timberjack 40-584 ISO

  33. #33
    Rocks belong
    Reputation: 06HokieMTB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    5,177
    What material are the teeth of the ratchets made of?
    I like 'em long, low, slack and playful

  34. #34
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    607
    The actual ratchets (which you cant see unless you take it completely apart) are hardened steel. The plastic bit go between the engagement splines, which I think are just aluminium, and I assume where the creak comes from.

    The way the hub works is that the helical spline pulls the ratchets apart and tries to keep them apart when coasting (this was the premise of the silence mechanism), and when pedalling it forces them together. Without the silence function, It Is in some ways like a king hub. Of course without the silence.

    I wonder if some part inside the SLX hub is steel then, and less/not susceptible to this creak.

  35. #35
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2020
    Posts
    29
    Quote Originally Posted by smashysmashy View Post
    The actual ratchets (which you cant see unless you take it completely apart) are hardened steel. The plastic bit go between the engagement splines, which I think are just aluminium, and I assume where the creak comes from.

    The way the hub works is that the helical spline pulls the ratchets apart and tries to keep them apart when coasting (this was the premise of the silence mechanism), and when pedalling it forces them together. Without the silence function, It Is in some ways like a king hub. Of course without the silence.

    I wonder if some part inside the SLX hub is steel then, and less/not susceptible to this creak.
    I was wondering about that. The SLX hubshell splines are probably alloy, but maybe the freehub unit splines are steel? Not sure if that would help will creaking.

  36. #36
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    607
    Freehub is aluminium. Don't know if the splines are part of the freehub or an attached piece.

    Is there any spot on the splines on either side with visible wear?

  37. #37
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    607
    Hmm, I guess theres 2 sliding interfaces. one is the helical spline, which is on the freehub and would be aluminium on all the hubs. this engages one steel ratchet side. the other steel ratchet side has straight splines and those engage the hub shell. So, its steel to aluminium on all interfaces.

    I cant see any area where the slx would be different. Coatings maybe? different grade aluminium or steel? I mean, I wouldn't be surprised if the only difference between the hubs was the steel axle - maybe just the stiffness in that axle prevents this creaking?

  38. #38
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2020
    Posts
    29
    Quote Originally Posted by smashysmashy View Post
    Hmm, I guess theres 2 sliding interfaces. one is the helical spline, which is on the freehub and would be aluminium on all the hubs. this engages one steel ratchet side. the other steel ratchet side has straight splines and those engage the hub shell. So, its steel to aluminium on all interfaces.

    I cant see any area where the slx would be different. Coatings maybe? different grade aluminium or steel? I mean, I wouldn't be surprised if the only difference between the hubs was the steel axle - maybe just the stiffness in that axle prevents this creaking?
    No visible wear. Based on the the document shimano sent me (post #30), it seems the sliding between the hub shell and freehub is what causes the creaking. The toothed spacer probably compresses over time, allowing for the some rocking or play. Add in grit and contamination to get creaking. I'd guess to make it work without the spacer would require much tighter tolerances when machining the splines, making it more expensive. Just another case of the bike industry cutting corners to hit a price point, passing on the problem to the consumer... especially the consumers who put big miles on their bikes.

  39. #39
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    607
    Well it will be less about precision, more about wear. the tighter fitting splines would probably cause more wear (they'd be in contact more). So probably not corner cutting, probably that setup worked best. DT has much finer spline teeth and they are all steel on both sides.

    I saw a post about creaking in an 8110 hub and the guy said it was form the spring getting twisted, which he fixed and the creaking went away. Too many variables in these hubs I think. Ill just keep an eye on mine, it get lots of abuse, but not offroad.

    My other micro spline hubs are Hope. They have their own flaws, but work well enough.

  40. #40
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2020
    Posts
    163
    Quote Originally Posted by smashysmashy View Post
    Well it will be less about precision, more about wear. the tighter fitting splines would probably cause more wear (they'd be in contact more). So probably not corner cutting, probably that setup worked best. DT has much finer spline teeth and they are all steel on both sides.

    I saw a post about creaking in an 8110 hub and the guy said it was form the spring getting twisted, which he fixed and the creaking went away. Too many variables in these hubs I think. Ill just keep an eye on mine, it get lots of abuse, but not offroad.

    My other micro spline hubs are Hope. They have their own flaws, but work well enough.
    Well I'm glad you posted all of this. Seems the M8000 XT is the way to go if going with Shimano. It's a shame the micro spline isn't working out as XT has always worked so well and been so durable.

    Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

  41. #41
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    607
    Nothing wrong with micro spline. Shimano makes micro spline pawl hubs too.

    Also, the M8000 rear hub had a swath of failure reports too.. likewise the brakes, and the shifting is poor, generally regarded as one of shimanos worst groups in a long time.

    Point being, there's issues with anything, and there's literally tens of thousands of these hubs out there, and I expect most of them operating with no issues. We've heard reports on 2 or 3 bad ones here.

  42. #42
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2020
    Posts
    163
    Quote Originally Posted by smashysmashy View Post
    Nothing wrong with micro spline. Shimano makes micro spline pawl hubs too.

    Also, the M8000 rear hub had a swath of failure reports too.. likewise the brakes, and the shifting is poor, generally regarded as one of shimanos worst groups in a long time.

    Point being, there's issues with anything, and there's literally tens of thousands of these hubs out there, and I expect most of them operating with no issues. We've heard reports on 2 or 3 bad ones here.
    That's good to know. My mistake making an assumption. My SLX on my 2014 Rocky Mountain vertex and the XT on my 2014 Santa Cruz tallboy were both really great to me. I loved the shifting. My current Deore 10 spd shifting stinks.

    Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

  43. #43
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2020
    Posts
    29
    Incidentally on my second ride back on the rebuild hub(working perfectly so far) I had my xt 12spd shifter fail. This is actually my third one of these to fail. Didn't want to muddied the thread while looking for reports on the hubs, but now seems to be a good time to hijack it!
    They have all failed in the exact same way, the end of a small spring breaks, allowing it to come unraveled. this means the downshift paddle (larger cog/easier gear) no longer works because the pawl isn't held against the ratchet ring. see link for pictures(https://drive.google.com/drive/folde...qg?usp=sharing). shimano has warrantied 2, sending in the third. The first lasted 3 mo, sencond 2 mo, and the third 6 wks.

    This coupled with the hub issues, clutch issues(they come from the factory with barely any grease), brake issues(wandering bite points, and my friend had a brand new set of slx's come with leaky piston seals, oil all over the inside of the box) and crank failures(https://www.instagram.com/thanksshimano/?hl=en) makes me think shimano's QC has gone to sh$t.

    My plan is to switch over to xo1 shifter/mech, dt swiss 350 hub(if the warrantied one breaks again) and stick with shimano cassette, chain and chainring. Get the silky smooth shifting with (hopefully) reliable parts. Cherishing my old set of slx brakes that still work perfectly with over 10,000 miles of use.

  44. #44
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    607
    My slx shifter is flawless, I like it a lot, nice feel. My XT is definitely "different". Feels very different, "stiff" to press and click (it's also instant shift, which is not on the slx). Only one ride on it so far (just finished building the bike). I guess more more thing to keep an eye on.

    My XT 10 speed also felt very stiff, hard to make it click when you were not pedalling. My slx and xtr 10 speed were smoother (even though the slx was shifting the same xt rear der). No issues with the shifter, just never liked the feel of any xt shifters. I imagine there's people who think the opposite.

  45. #45
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    607
    Quote Originally Posted by nbb109 View Post
    This coupled with the hub issues, clutch issues(they come from the factory with barely any grease), brake issues(wandering bite points, and my friend had a brand new set of slx's come with leaky piston seals, oil all over the inside of the box) and crank failures(https://www.instagram.com/thanksshimano/?hl=en) makes me think shimano's QC has gone to sh$t.
    Shimano had a lot of japan factory problems - fire, flood, I forget what else - so I have thought these groups were maybe a bit rushed and not tested as thoroughly as they normally do.

    I actually like shimano cranks these days, but if you're the type of person that stresses a crank, the bonded hollow ultra light concept is maybe not the best choice. I have seen virtually every crank broken though. I broke an xtr m950, my friend snapped a race face turbine in half climbing in front of me. It is highly dependent on the rider. Rear hub is different as most people put basically the same stresses on the hub.

  46. #46
    Thicc Member
    Reputation: TylerVernon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2019
    Posts
    846
    Shimano xtr trail cranks are welded. Race xtr are bonded.

  47. #47
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    607
    Quote Originally Posted by TylerVernon View Post
    Shimano xtr trail cranks are welded. Race xtr are bonded.
    The failed cranks in his link were all bonded road cranks.

    I'm not sure there's any particularly notable failure rate with mountain cranks.

  48. #48
    mbtr member
    Reputation: scottzg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    6,494
    Quote Originally Posted by nbb109 View Post
    Incidentally on my second ride back on the rebuild hub(working perfectly so far) I had my xt 12spd shifter fail. This is actually my third one of these to fail. Didn't want to muddied the thread while looking for reports on the hubs, but now seems to be a good time to hijack it!
    They have all failed in the exact same way, the end of a small spring breaks, allowing it to come unraveled. this means the downshift paddle (larger cog/easier gear) no longer works because the pawl isn't held against the ratchet ring. see link for pictures(https://drive.google.com/drive/folde...qg?usp=sharing). shimano has warrantied 2, sending in the third. The first lasted 3 mo, sencond 2 mo, and the third 6 wks.

    This coupled with the hub issues, clutch issues(they come from the factory with barely any grease), brake issues(wandering bite points, and my friend had a brand new set of slx's come with leaky piston seals, oil all over the inside of the box) and crank failures(https://www.instagram.com/thanksshimano/?hl=en) makes me think shimano's QC has gone to sh$t.

    My plan is to switch over to xo1 shifter/mech, dt swiss 350 hub(if the warrantied one breaks again) and stick with shimano cassette, chain and chainring. Get the silky smooth shifting with (hopefully) reliable parts. Cherishing my old set of slx brakes that still work perfectly with over 10,000 miles of use.
    Sad times when people are running to sram for QC and durability.

    I never had high hopes for the shimano hubs, they are legendary for being reliably non-durable. Figured i'd take a chance and buy a dt350 if it came to it- they're so cheap!

    My 8100 kit has been flawless other than the hub, and if it keeps running silent and reliable i'm still happy with it.

    Your decision makes sense though. Sad.
    "Things that are complex are not useful, Things that are useful are simple."
    Mikhail Kalashnikov

  49. #49
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2020
    Posts
    29
    Scottzg-Me too, a real shame I've been having so many failures. In terms of feel and function (when everything is working) this new shimano 12spd is so nice! Never had the pleasure of looking forward to shifting just from the sheer novelty of how crisp and smooth it is.

    Smashysmashy- Yes, the crank failures are just for road by the looks of it, here's an interesting analysis of a possible cause(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rj__lexd_BI). I included it more to illustrate my point of poor QC becoming a thing with shimano. I have the MT900 non series xtr crank and really like it. simple, light and good chainrings. side note: the new slx and xt chainrings are exactly the same thing, just different colors. Same with the chains, just a different coating that probably lasts a week. Have been getting pretty much the same lifespan out of slx and xt chains.

  50. #50
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    607
    m900 crank is the xt crank with the xtr ring.

    And yup, I noticed right away that's the xt and slx rings are the same, and the cranks arms aside from colour and subtle shaping are really the same. Cassette is the same except the one cog. Derailleur is also virtually identical. slx looks nicer too. Basically, don't buy XT :P

  51. #51
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2020
    Posts
    29
    Quote Originally Posted by smashysmashy View Post
    m900 crank is the xt crank with the xtr ring.

    And yup, I noticed right away that's the xt and slx rings are the same, and the cranks arms aside from colour and subtle shaping are really the same. Cassette is the same except the one cog. Derailleur is also virtually identical. slx looks nicer too. Basically, don't buy XT :P
    Haha yes, not much point in xt! Do like the xt rear mech slightly more, clutch adjustment port and bearings in the pulley wheels. The SLX cassette is way better too, the 45t is my most used climbing gear so making it steel is a no brainer, the splines to go on the freehub are better too. Full engagement along the while length of the spider vs just a ridge on each end on XT. Not a function difference, but much more satisfying.

    The MT900 crank is super light, mine came in at 495g w/o chainring. 175mm length. Not sure what the xt weighs, maybe slightly different construction.

  52. #52
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    607
    The mt900 crank IS the xt crank as far as i'm aware. They released it because there were problems with the m9100 crank. then some months later the xt branded one came out.

  53. #53
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    454
    How much play should a new xtr micro spline have without cassette installed?
    I can pull/push freehub and it goes in and out a bit, feels like 1mm but probably less. No side-to-side play.
    Normal or does indicate something like spacer is missing like talked about earlier?
    Sometimes Rickety, not a turd

  54. #54
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2020
    Posts
    29
    Quote Originally Posted by Turd View Post
    How much play should a new xtr micro spline have without cassette installed?
    I can pull/push freehub and it goes in and out a bit, feels like 1mm but probably less. No side-to-side play.
    Normal or does indicate something like spacer is missing like talked about earlier?
    Totally normal. On mine, with the wheel out there is a fair bit of play, once it's bolted up in the frame everything gets compressed leaving just a tiny bit of in/out play. If you read the service manuals they state this is to allow the freehub mechanism to fully disengage.

  55. #55
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    454
    Thanks 109, just bought a rear to get started with a 12spd changeover and the shimano hub was not in the plan. It was too cheap to pass up, so now I'm reverse researching.
    Sometimes Rickety, not a turd

  56. #56
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2020
    Posts
    29
    No problem! Glad you found the thread, the whole reason I started it was so people can see real life experience before buying. The price makes them almost impossible to beat. Sad that they creak... Be great if you could report back in a few months when you get some good miles on it.

  57. #57
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    607
    So i took my slx hub bike on the trails today.
    I definitely could hear some sort of noise under power up hills and accelerating. Hard to know if its from the hub, but if I was guessing, it sounds like the aluminium drive splines pressed firmly together and every so slightly shifting against each other as the load varies. low pitched "pop" sporadically under power. Not consistent with pedal strokes like most other creaks.

    I probably wont ride it more than 1 or 2 more times off road this year, but ill keep an eye on it.

  58. #58
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    1,947
    Ugh, starting to think that the deal that I got on a pair of 900 series hubs wasn't such a good deal.

    Guess the question now is, do I build them up. Just ordered the spokes too.

  59. #59
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2020
    Posts
    29
    Quote Originally Posted by jochribs View Post
    Ugh, starting to think that the deal that I got on a pair of 900 series hubs wasn't such a good deal.

    Guess the question now is, do I build them up. Just ordered the spokes too.
    My LBS mechanic brought this to my attention last time I was in, shimano quietly released a standard 3 pawl rear hub. Looks to have the same flange dimensions(don't quote me on that). The front hub is bombproof, same thing that has been in production for 30+ years.

    https://bike.shimano.com/en-EU/produ...H-MT510-B.html

  60. #60
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    1,947
    Quote Originally Posted by nbb109 View Post
    My LBS mechanic brought this to my attention last time I was in, shimano quietly released a standard 3 pawl rear hub. Looks to have the same flange dimensions(don't quote me on that). The front hub is bombproof, same thing that has been in production for 30+ years.

    https://bike.shimano.com/en-EU/produ...H-MT510-B.html
    Holy Moly. 440 grams. I was really hoping to get my hands on the new 240 EXP hubs with centerlock but talking to DT, they said they weren't expecting them until fall. I'm in the middle of a new bike build and figured I would just build some holdovers until those hubs came available. Saw the M-900 hubs at a pretty good price so I went with them. Supposed to be a middle ground between XTR and XT. Hope they run well and without problems, but I guess by then I'll be able to get my hands on the 240 EXP's.

  61. #61
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2020
    Posts
    29
    Not too bad for a $57 cup and cone hub. What sort of wheelset are you looking to build up? I'm considering selling my wheelset I built up, xt 8100 hubs, dt xm481 30mm ID rims, dt comp race spokes, boost 29er. let me know if you are interested, have a brand new xt 10-51t cassette I'd include too.

  62. #62
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2020
    Posts
    29
    Quote Originally Posted by smashysmashy View Post
    So i took my slx hub bike on the trails today.
    I definitely could hear some sort of noise under power up hills and accelerating. Hard to know if its from the hub, but if I was guessing, it sounds like the aluminium drive splines pressed firmly together and every so slightly shifting against each other as the load varies. low pitched "pop" sporadically under power. Not consistent with pedal strokes like most other creaks.

    I probably wont ride it more than 1 or 2 more times off road this year, but ill keep an eye on it.
    That sounds about right. Started off as some feeling off, then slowly got louder over a few rides once dirt gets in.

  63. #63
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    607
    The mt510 came out when slx/xt did. It's used on alot of bikes with slx. It's all steel, deore grade, which is why its very heavy and I expect the bearings to be deore grade - as in, fairly poor (compared to xtr anyway).

  64. #64
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    1,634
    Just thought I'd share my positive experience with the MT900 series (non-XTR XTR) hubs.

    I ordered these as soon as they were available in mid-2019. Built them to Ibis rims and using with XTR drivetrain.

    I love these hubs so far. Maybe 800mi on them? They roll amazing well compared to my I9s and are basically silent. I don't even notice them. No play and engagement is great even after coming from I9.

    I have yet to service them so I do not know the construction. These are very early release hubs so no idea what running changes might have been made to them. They have also not gotten very wet at all. Maybe a few rides in the rain and zero submersion in water.

    Probably not much useful info, but figured I'd share my positive experience.

  65. #65
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    607
    I think the m900 is the same hub as the xt, perhaps with better bearings.

    Do you notice any sort of noise when climbing or pedaling hard? it may not be very loud and it doesn't sound like any normal bike creak.

    I dont think theres anything wrong with mine (yet), I expect the noise is probably only noise, and wont develop into anything else, but we'll see.

  66. #66
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    1,634
    Quote Originally Posted by smashysmashy View Post
    I think the m900 is the same hub as the xt, perhaps with better bearings.

    Do you notice any sort of noise when climbing or pedaling hard? it may not be very loud and it doesn't sound like any normal bike creak.

    I dont think theres anything wrong with mine (yet), I expect the noise is probably only noise, and wont develop into anything else, but we'll see.
    Not sure it is the same except bearings. I think there is about a 40g difference in the rear between the MT900 vs XT. Probably some material differences. I doubt bearings can account for 40g in just the rear.

    I have zero creaks/cracks/sounds even when mashing hard out of the saddle. of course, my riding here in VT is pretty steady as she goes. We don't have staircases or hop ups where you really mash on your rear end.

  67. #67
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    1,947
    Quote Originally Posted by WoodstockMTB View Post
    Just thought I'd share my positive experience with the MT900 series (non-XTR XTR) hubs.

    I ordered these as soon as they were available in mid-2019. Built them to Ibis rims and using with XTR drivetrain.

    I love these hubs so far. Maybe 800mi on them? They roll amazing well compared to my I9s and are basically silent. I don't even notice them. No play and engagement is great even after coming from I9.

    I have yet to service them so I do not know the construction. These are very early release hubs so no idea what running changes might have been made to them. They have also not gotten very wet at all. Maybe a few rides in the rain and zero submersion in water.

    Probably not much useful info, but figured I'd share my positive experience.
    This is music to my ears. I have a set that I got for a pretty good price that I'm just waiting on the spokes to arrive for. Reading this thread has had me a bit worried that I shouldn't have invested the time/money/spoke lengths into them. But it's too late to turn back. Looking forward to getting these wheels built and this bike build done.

  68. #68
    Rocks belong
    Reputation: 06HokieMTB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    5,177
    I'm pretty certain the MT901-B is the full XTR internals in the XT hubshell. (Both flanges of the MT901 are tall as opposed to the Hi/Lo of the XTR hubshell.) There is at least one procedure in the service manual that makes a distinction for the XTR M9100/MT901 vs the rest of the series.

    On the trail, the MT901 had quite an unique sound when coasting at speed. Not loud, not annoying, but different than anything I had heard. Great engagement!

    Can also attest that the MT901-B rolls faster than an I9 Torch
    I like 'em long, low, slack and playful

  69. #69
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    1,634
    Quote Originally Posted by 06HokieMTB View Post
    Can also attest that the MT901-B rolls faster than an I9 Torch
    Sometimes it feels like I have zero friction. Really the best spinning hubs I have ever had, but I've only had Single, I9 and Easton in the last 10 years.

  70. #70
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2020
    Posts
    5
    Pop goes the weasel. My xt rear microspline hub just binded up after 2 months. Worked fine then on the way home from a few hour ride the freehub locked up out of the blue, derailing the chain in the process. Fortunately it happened on a rolley strech of pavement, not a high speed section. I only had to carry the bike a mile or two before getting a ride the rest of the way home. The hub design is flawed, or the grade of parts are not up to the task. I took the hub apart and noticed that the plastic part, in the diagram "slider", had been chewed and spit out. Pieces of it went lodged in the axle/freehub preventing it from spinning. Other parts inside the hub may have failed as well.

  71. #71
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    15
    Just purchased an XTR and SLX microspline version of these hubs. Couldn't pass up the good deal and will build up the XTR's next week.
    I can take apart for inspection of parts in case anyone is interested in pics.
    I may sell the SLX hubs as I don;t need backups for my backups....

  72. #72
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2020
    Posts
    2
    Had the same problem with two Shimano XT M8100 hubs.
    Got my Cube Stereo Hybrid in May 2020, after about 300km I could hear an increasingly loud noise coming from the hub.
    I then got a new rear wheel from Cube with a new XT M8100 hub.
    After about 50km the same problem again.
    Two weeks ago I had the Shimano hub exchanged for a Newmen hub at my own expense.
    Since then I have driven about 300km and no problems yet.

  73. #73
    Thicc Member
    Reputation: TylerVernon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2019
    Posts
    846
    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Schneider View Post
    Pop goes the weasel. My xt rear microspline hub just binded up after 2 months. Worked fine then on the way home from a few hour ride the freehub locked up out of the blue, derailing the chain in the process. Fortunately it happened on a rolley strech of pavement, not a high speed section. I only had to carry the bike a mile or two before getting a ride the rest of the way home. The hub design is flawed, or the grade of parts are not up to the task. I took the hub apart and noticed that the plastic part, in the diagram "slider", had been chewed and spit out. Pieces of it went lodged in the axle/freehub preventing it from spinning. Other parts inside the hub may have failed as well.
    I'd take it to LBS to do an analysis and let them get a warranty from Shimano.

  74. #74
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2020
    Posts
    29
    Nexusx1, wow that is some really fast failures! So far I seemed to be right about the 2 months of higher mileage riding before they have issues. I definitely classify that as a manufacturing defect, maybe an early batch for The OEM spec on the cube?

    Because I wanted to sell off my 12spd wheelset(wanted to build up something lighter for XC riding, dt swiss xm481 rims are burly!) I gave shimano warranty a call and managed to get the tech in charge of my hub warranty on the phone. They've changed the material that the spacers/sliders are made of to a harder plastic, and now all hubs should be coming with greased splines from the factory to prevent creaking. He even took my wheel out for a couple test rides after reassembling to make sure there was no issues. Sounded like a good enough proccess for me to feel comfortable selling, I made sure to let the buyer know that I had issues freehub that shimano warranty had fixed in house.

  75. #75
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2020
    Posts
    2
    Quote Originally Posted by nbb109 View Post
    Nexusx1, wow that is some really fast failures! So far I seemed to be right about the 2 months of higher mileage riding before they have issues. I definitely classify that as a manufacturing defect, maybe an early batch for The OEM spec on the cube?
    The funny thing about the whole story is that the Newmen hubs are fitted as standard on the 2018 and 2019 Action Team models and the current delivery has also been installed with Newmen hub.
    The Shimano XT hub was only used for the first deliveries in May because Newmen lacked to have the license for Microspline.

  76. #76
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Posts
    57
    I will report back in a few months I guess, have starting riding this hub on a giant reign 29 so it'll get a bit of abuse.

    Went for it's first proper ride yesterday and i really do like the silence when coasting, hopefully it doesn't eat it self up but knowing that the plastic spacer thing gets chewed up I can keep an eye on it.
    Giant Reign SX 29
    Ibis Ripley OG
    Santa Cruz Blur XCc

  77. #77
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    607
    I'm waiting for a random colour 28h hope pro 4 sale I guess...

    My frame is non boost QR so i dont have too many options for economical wheels (this is my commuter i ride in the snow and slush, i dont intend to spend money on fancy wheels)

  78. #78
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2020
    Posts
    5

    New XT hubs totally suck. 2 times failures !

    Quote Originally Posted by nbb109 View Post
    Hi all, new to posting on the forum but have been reading product reviews on here for a while. I have had 2 of the new 12spd xt freehub mechanisms fail on me, and wanted to see if others have had the same experience. I built the hubs up to dt swiss xm481 rims with dt spokes as a solid set of trail/training wheels. I have had great success with shimano hubs in the past, so I saw no reason to spend more for a 350...

    I'll start by saying the new design is completely different to the old system that has been around forever. Its similar to a dt, with 2 springs and separate freehub body that runs on cartidge bearings. The ratchet mechanism is self contained in the freehub body and is not user serviceable. the hub shell has cup and cone on either side. side note, the front hub is identical to the previous model.

    The first failure happened within a couple weeks. I had the wheel off the bike, and it toppled over on the cassette side(hurts my soul to think about) and the cassette pulled the freehub out. At first I wasn't too concerned, thinking that they had finally copied dt swiss and made a tool free freehub. Then I realized that was not the case, as 2 small c-clips had popped out of place(one labeled DO NOT DISASSEMBLE) allowing the freehub mechanism to fall apart! I called shimano and explained what had happened. They were confused at how it fell apart, but walked me through how to reassemble it. After a few rides it started to creak like crazy(took me a couple weeks to figure out it was the hub), so I called shimano and they sent a whole new hub to my LBS under warranty.

    I rebuilt the wheel with the new hub, and it worked flawlessly for 2 months. fast engagement, smooth bearings at a great price! really the goldilocks hub for 12spd IMO. Then it tried to lock on and turn into a fixie. I had just pedalled to the end of the driveway and started to coast up to a stop sign, when it made a god awful grinding sound that scared the sh*t out of me. I proceeded to lock the rear brake and slide to a stop. Upon taking it apart back at home, I found the toothed plastic spacer(think it is a tolerance thing) was completely chewed up. I think part of it must have gotten jammed in the ratchet mechanism. The two cartidge bearings in the freebody were also totally shot. I put every back together without the spacer, and while the freehub didn't lock on anymore, the horrible creaking was back.

    Currently waiting on another warranty replacement, shimano maybe sending out an xtr hub. hopefully it doesn't break too.
    Hi, I just suscribed to this forum to answer your question :

    YES > the XT hubs are weak piece of shit.

    They where initially designed to be 100% the new SYLENCE thing, but few months before shipping the first batch, they realized after testing that they would have issue.
    They modified something (invert 1 spring) in order to improve the engagement, but whatever it is, there is an engineering flaw.

    My hub has failed 2 times.

    At the beginning, they look good. At a certain speed, they unlock and roll silent, but if you push them up hill (high load climbing) they will very soon start to make cracking sounds...

    At the beginning, I thought that my lacing was wrong, or the spokes where the cause of cracking sounds, but after inspection, some plastic part were chew-up in the hub. They did developed play and had to be sent back to shimano.

    I did purchased a new one, waiting for Shimano to repair the defectuous one, but the new one start to get the same symptoms...

    The rest of the groupset is fine (all new XTR) I went for XT hubs based on the reliability of the previous model. Big mistake... I should have spent more for some DT 240.

  79. #79
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2020
    Posts
    5

    Good luck...

    If you don't load them, they may last... But if you climb those long road/trail with slopes of more than 30 degrees, be ready to cling-klank shit (and failure coming after)

  80. #80
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2020
    Posts
    5

    new XT hub faulty

    I forgot to write that the free hub started to catch up and lock the chain, nearly crashed 3 times ! Costing down hill, the chain suddenly fall !

    I managed to went back home by breaking and pedaling all the way done, in order to keep the chain under tension.

    Shimano must stop selling this specific hub DEORE XT M8100. They are dangerous !


  81. #81
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    1,634
    Are people seeing issue with XTR or the MT901? I have not heard if any yet


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  82. #82
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Posts
    57
    How many hours of riding are you guys doing before seeing these failures? I've just done about 10 hours worth so opened up the hub to have a look. Couldn't see any issues or wear on the toothed spacer thing.

    I do hear what I think you're all referring to as this popping sound when climbing, it's always been doing it though, not as though it's been silent and then suddenly it starts.
    Giant Reign SX 29
    Ibis Ripley OG
    Santa Cruz Blur XCc

  83. #83
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    1,947
    Quote Originally Posted by WoodstockMTB View Post
    Are people seeing issue with XTR or the MT901? I have not heard if any yet


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    I recently built a set of MT-901B hubs so I'll let you know if no one else chimes in about them. I've been waiting on some parts due to supply chain issues to get the bike they are going on rolling, but think I should be good to go later this week.

  84. #84
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    1,634
    Quote Originally Posted by jochribs View Post
    I recently built a set of MT-901B hubs so I'll let you know if no one else chimes in about them. I've been waiting on some parts due to supply chain issues to get the bike they are going on rolling, but think I should be good to go later this week.

    I use them for about 6mos and never had any issues, early 2019 production version

  85. #85
    Magically Delicious
    Reputation: Cleared2land's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    8,487
    Quote Originally Posted by VictorXC View Post
    YES > the XT hubs are weak piece of shit.

    ^^^^ Doesn't know the difference between a freehub and a hub.
    A bad day of cycling is better than a good day at work

    Work Truck - Dassault Falcon 7X

  86. #86
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    1,947
    Quote Originally Posted by WoodstockMTB View Post
    I use them for about 6mos and never had any issues, early 2019 production version
    This is the 900 series that you're talking about? If so, that is reassuring. This thread has had me a little concerned, that's for sure. I'll definitely keep the thread posted about how my MT-901B holds up.

  87. #87
    Rocks belong
    Reputation: 06HokieMTB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    5,177
    Something is different about the M9100 XTR and MT-901 hubs vs. the M8100 and below.

    The Shimano owners manual has different instructions for the M9100/MT-901. One specific section talks about spacers that are used to set (what I assume to be) lateral freehub/axle preload.

    Also, just learned today that the M5100 Deore hubs have cartridge bearings and standard pawl freehubs... interesting
    I like 'em long, low, slack and playful

  88. #88
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2020
    Posts
    5
    Quote Originally Posted by Cleared2land View Post
    ^^^^ Doesn't know the difference between a freehub and a hub.
    Just google it. You will learn "what is what..."

  89. #89
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2020
    Posts
    5

    new XT hubs are defective > FH-M8110-B

    They will work for 2 or 3 rides, but if you load them, they will start to get side-to-side play, make creaking sounds and fail.

    If you bring them to the tech, they will try to tight it back, it will work for a while, they chewing party...

    Think about it, what kind of (free) hub design would randomly "be silent" or engaging with clicking at speed? Rubbish design. Or let's say "incomplete".

    The worse is, they did send to reviewers all around the world the "Scylence rear hub", of course, it was working time of the review trial. But in between, labs sent "Alarm warning!" they have to hold their shipment and under commercial pressure, they quickly try a solution to the problem by "cancelling" the Scylence" but the structure remained the same. Impossible to redesign and manufacture the whole design !

    Too many tiny parts, weak construction/material, and commercial pressure to launch the product.


    btw > I am talking about that specific model FH-M8110-B. I like Shimano products, but this time, they failed.

    Now, if you like to rebuild a rear hub every 3 months, it's another "hobby" than mountain-biking.

  90. #90
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    607
    Quote Originally Posted by Cleared2land View Post
    ^^^^ Doesn't know the difference between a freehub and a hub.
    ^^^ doesn't know context driven statements

    I've done a few more off road rides on my SLX, no change. still has very minor clicking/creaking under load, not getting any worse.

    Again, this hub doesnt see what I would call hard riding in terms of torque. It did get abused in snow, slush, rain, etc.

    So, the seals are good at least

  91. #91
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2020
    Posts
    5
    My failed xt hub worked great no creaking etc, then out of the blue it locked up. Dangerouse. I did notice it had gone silent all the time a few days before it failed. I have a warranty replacement ready to be laced up, shimano is quick with the warranty, hopefully they sent out a hub with the updated harder slider. Wonder if certain serial number correspond to the updated part?

  92. #92
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2020
    Posts
    29
    Quote Originally Posted by meschenbruch View Post
    How many hours of riding are you guys doing before seeing these failures? I've just done about 10 hours worth so opened up the hub to have a look. Couldn't see any issues or wear on the toothed spacer thing.

    I do hear what I think you're all referring to as this popping sound when climbing, it's always been doing it though, not as though it's been silent and then suddenly it starts.
    I got around 150 hrs of ride time out of the second hub before it started creaking, so probably check the spacer every 50hrs or so. I never had popping sounds, just slowly started intermittently creaking, then tried to lock on.

  93. #93
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2020
    Posts
    29
    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Schneider View Post
    My failed xt hub worked great no creaking etc, then out of the blue it locked up. Dangerouse. I did notice it had gone silent all the time a few days before it failed. I have a warranty replacement ready to be laced up, shimano is quick with the warranty, hopefully they sent out a hub with the updated harder slider. Wonder if certain serial number correspond to the updated part?
    The updated slider was a smooth, white plastic, vs the porous black plastic of the original. I think the best thing to do would be to pull the hub apart and reassemble it to the specifications of the document shimano sent me(post #30). So many small parts, I could easily see something going wrong during factory assembly. A little too much force and the slider will be bent from the get go.

    Youtube also recommended me this, in Portuguese but seems this shop was having so many problems with these hubs creaking on the cube bikes they sold that they made a video for their customers. turn on auto translate to get a decent idea of what's going on, pretty much word for word the updated service doc I received from shimano.
    https://youtu.be/KND7__nmMA4

    And for those wondering what the creaking sounds like:
    https://youtu.be/VDoFogjT99g

  94. #94
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Grande's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    181
    Just found this thread. Bummer. I was set to pull the trigger on an XT8100/DT 481 built up for about $500 at Colorado Cyclist. I called CC and asked them if they have heard of any issues with these hubs. He said he didn't and that XT hubs are very reliable which of course they are historically but he really didn't seem aware of the redesign.

    Curious if there are threads about this issue on other forums (PB?). I had these hubs marked for my 1-2x/week frequency of riding these days. I don't see the need to pay +$400-500 for high end stuff like I9 or King given my aging man riding habits.

  95. #95
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    1,634
    Quote Originally Posted by Grande View Post
    Just found this thread. Bummer. I was set to pull the trigger on an XT8100/DT 481 built up for about $500 at Colorado Cyclist. I called CC and asked them if they have heard of any issues with these hubs. He said he didn't and that XT hubs are very reliable which of course they are historically but he really didn't seem aware of the redesign.

    Curious if there are threads about this issue on other forums (PB?). I had these hubs marked for my 1-2x/week frequency of riding these days. I don't see the need to pay +$400-500 for high end stuff like I9 or King given my aging man riding habits.
    Get some ibis wheels. $500, decent hubs, great rims. As I have mentioned, I can only speak to the MT901 hubs which are awesome. You could get some built up through Universalcyles for around $500 is my guess. Lighter than XT and XTR internals.

  96. #96
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Grande's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    181
    Thanks for the tip. I'll look into the MT901s more. I just found a thread that looks like you started.

  97. #97
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Millennial29erGuy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Posts
    1,648
    Quote Originally Posted by Grande View Post
    Just found this thread. Bummer. I was set to pull the trigger on an XT8100/DT 481 built up for about $500 at Colorado Cyclist. I called CC and asked them if they have heard of any issues with these hubs. He said he didn't and that XT hubs are very reliable which of course they are historically but he really didn't seem aware of the redesign.

    Curious if there are threads about this issue on other forums (PB?). I had these hubs marked for my 1-2x/week frequency of riding these days. I don't see the need to pay +$400-500 for high end stuff like I9 or King given my aging man riding habits.
    There is an updated spacer and a specific way to grease it from Shimano https://na.s-tec.shimano.com/s3_asse..._Procedure.pdf

    I would be curious how this new part performs compared to the original
    My name is George. I知 unemployed and I live with my parents.
    2017 BMC Speedfox 25-622 ISO
    2017 Salsa Timberjack 40-584 ISO

  98. #98
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    1,634
    Quote Originally Posted by Grande View Post
    Thanks for the tip. I'll look into the MT901s more. I just found a thread that looks like you started.
    I have Ibis logo hubs now and plan to swap to the MT901s this winter (maybe XTR if Santa brings me a surprise). I like them that much and for the price the MT901s are tough to beat. I can't speak to durability as I only used the about 500-600mi, but I has zero issues or concerns

  99. #99
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2020
    Posts
    5
    A photo of most of the internals of the freehub from my warrantied replacement. multiple XT M8100 hub failures-img_20200909_203246.jpg

  100. #100
    Magically Delicious
    Reputation: Cleared2land's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    8,487
    Quote Originally Posted by Grande View Post
    Just found this thread. Bummer. I was set to pull the trigger on an XT8100/DT 481 built up for about $500 at Colorado Cyclist.
    If I was interested going back to a 'Cup n Cone' hubset, I would have no problem with going back to Shimano Hubs. I have never experienced any issues with any Shimano hubs. You will always have some issues with all products and these issues usually represent a very small fraction of those who are pleased with their product and have never experienced any problems.


    An old marketing survey tip: A happy product customer will tell 2 friends, but an unhappy customer will tell 10. You can do the math.
    A bad day of cycling is better than a good day at work

    Work Truck - Dassault Falcon 7X

  101. #101
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Grande's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    181
    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Schneider View Post
    A photo of most of the internals of the freehub from my warrantied replacement. Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_20200909_203246.jpg 
Views:	26 
Size:	294.4 KB 
ID:	1364135
    Did Shimano send you an entire new hub or just internals? Did they send to you direct or thru LBS?

    I ask because if I buy a new wheelset mail order it would be a pain to ship the wheel back and have them handle it. If Shimano ships directly to me and I swap out the internals and don't have to do a rebuild, that's different.

    Any word on whether Shimano is shipping out new hubs with updated internals? Problem solved?

  102. #102
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2020
    Posts
    5
    Had the hub warrantied through Universal Cycles, great customer support, I sent them the whole hub and they sent me a whole hub. They might able to do a freehub replacement only, if thats the only failed part. Not sure if they updated the hub internals, I only took apart the first hub after it had exploded. Here is a photo of the failed internals
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails multiple XT M8100 hub failures-img_20200712_222831.jpg  


  103. #103
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2020
    Posts
    5
    Here are some more photos of my failed xt hub. looks like the seal seperating the wheel bearings from the freehub got sucked into the freehub and jammed up the wheel multiple XT M8100 hub failures-img_20200712_223147.jpgmultiple XT M8100 hub failures-img_20200712_224718.jpg.

  104. #104
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    4

    +1

    Add me to the list of failures. Happened to me exactly as described in the OP after about 30 hours of riding.

    I'll be using this thread to claim my warranty. Thanks for all the information.

Similar Threads

  1. A review of the new Shimano 12 Speed M8100 XT groupset.
    By almazing in forum Drivetrain - shifters, derailleurs, cranks
    Replies: 51
    Last Post: 01-16-2020, 06:25 PM
  2. Replies: 1
    Last Post: 10-20-2019, 04:46 PM
  3. XT M8100 levers with M8000 calipers
    By yarbrough462 in forum Brake Time
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 09-13-2019, 09:47 AM
  4. Crankset - MT900 or XT M8100
    By bremmick in forum Shimano
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 07-23-2019, 12:49 PM
  5. Replies: 22
    Last Post: 10-29-2004, 04:32 AM

Members who have read this thread: 360

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

THE SITE

ABOUT MTBR

VISIT US AT

© Copyright 2020 VerticalScope Inc. All rights reserved.