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  1. #1
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    multiple XT M8100 hub failures

    Hi all, new to posting on the forum but have been reading product reviews on here for a while. I have had 2 of the new 12spd xt freehub mechanisms fail on me, and wanted to see if others have had the same experience. I built the hubs up to dt swiss xm481 rims with dt spokes as a solid set of trail/training wheels. I have had great success with shimano hubs in the past, so I saw no reason to spend more for a 350...

    I'll start by saying the new design is completely different to the old system that has been around forever. Its similar to a dt, with 2 springs and separate freehub body that runs on cartidge bearings. The ratchet mechanism is self contained in the freehub body and is not user serviceable. the hub shell has cup and cone on either side. side note, the front hub is identical to the previous model.

    The first failure happened within a couple weeks. I had the wheel off the bike, and it toppled over on the cassette side(hurts my soul to think about) and the cassette pulled the freehub out. At first I wasn't too concerned, thinking that they had finally copied dt swiss and made a tool free freehub. Then I realized that was not the case, as 2 small c-clips had popped out of place(one labeled DO NOT DISASSEMBLE) allowing the freehub mechanism to fall apart! I called shimano and explained what had happened. They were confused at how it fell apart, but walked me through how to reassemble it. After a few rides it started to creak like crazy(took me a couple weeks to figure out it was the hub), so I called shimano and they sent a whole new hub to my LBS under warranty.

    I rebuilt the wheel with the new hub, and it worked flawlessly for 2 months. fast engagement, smooth bearings at a great price! really the goldilocks hub for 12spd IMO. Then it tried to lock on and turn into a fixie. I had just pedalled to the end of the driveway and started to coast up to a stop sign, when it made a god awful grinding sound that scared the sh*t out of me. I proceeded to lock the rear brake and slide to a stop. Upon taking it apart back at home, I found the toothed plastic spacer(think it is a tolerance thing) was completely chewed up. I think part of it must have gotten jammed in the ratchet mechanism. The two cartidge bearings in the freebody were also totally shot. I put every back together without the spacer, and while the freehub didn't lock on anymore, the horrible creaking was back.

    Currently waiting on another warranty replacement, shimano maybe sending out an xtr hub. hopefully it doesn't break too.
    Last edited by nbb109; 05-26-2020 at 08:12 PM.

  2. #2
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    here are some pictures, let me know if the drive link doesn't work.

    https://drive.google.com/drive/folde...yV?usp=sharing

  3. #3
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    Hmmmm... subscribed

    my guess with the first one is that the freehub was disassembled and reassembled incorrectly. Not saying it was you, but I don't see any other way the freehub could come off the new hub

    the second one... I have no idea

    The plastic spacer that got chewed up, are you referring to part #10 on this diagram?
    https://si.shimano.com/pdfs/ev/EV-FH-M8110-4511.pdf

    There are metal shims behind the freehub body as well
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    What kind of disassembly did you do for the photos? I'm curious if you put the outer dust cover/c-clip thing (part 7 in the parts list) back into the hub shell? If you didn't and the photos are from after it fell apart I'd also lean to incorrect reassembly. To get the freehub off you need to remove the end cap and that c-clip to pull it apart.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Millennial29erGuy View Post
    Hmmmm... subscribed

    my guess with the first one is that the freehub was disassembled and reassembled incorrectly. Not saying it was you, but I don't see any other way the freehub could come off the new hub

    the second one... I have no idea

    The plastic spacer that got chewed up, are you referring to part #10 on this diagram?
    https://si.shimano.com/pdfs/ev/EV-FH-M8110-4511.pdf

    There are metal shims behind the freehub body as well
    yes, item 10 on the list. It's essentially a cheap bit of plastic to take up the slop between the splines in the hubshell and the freehub body. very similar to a centerlock disc rotor interface.

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    Quote Originally Posted by meschenbruch View Post
    What kind of disassembly did you do for the photos? I'm curious if you put the outer dust cover/c-clip thing (part 7 in the parts list) back into the hub shell? If you didn't and the photos are from after it fell apart I'd also lean to incorrect reassembly. To get the freehub off you need to remove the end cap and that c-clip to pull it apart.
    meschenbruch, I took those pictures to send to the shimano rep to show how it fell apart. It is definitely not the way to disassemble it! c clips things(pic 1 and 2 in drive gallery) came unclipped/weren't assembled correctly at the factory(I hadn't touched it), allowing the cassette to pull apart the freehub unit. In the last picture, you can see the unit reassembled as per shimano's instructions. If you look closely you can see scrapes near the c clip interface, indicating where they popped out of place under the impact of the wheel falling over.

  7. #7
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    While I appreciate the interest in trying to solve the problem meschenbruch and millennial guy, what I am really looking for is other owners experience with this new generation of shimano hubs. Believe me, me and the head mechanic at the LBS have both spent time trying to troubleshoot these issues with guidance from shimano. I can confidently say that I know how these hubs work and go together at this point. I took the hubs apart only after they developed the issues I laid out, meaning any potential issues with assembly causing the problems were done by shimano at the factory. My main objective of this thread is to get a bigger sample size of owners of these hubs(slx, xt and xtr), to see if I somehow got two defective ones, or if is a common thing.

  8. #8
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    Fair enough, not trying to imply you've done something to the hub just trying to figure out the situation. I have one of those hubs ready to lace up, just waiting on spokes, so seeing other peoples experience is also in my interest (and i have a fresh hub at the moment!)
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    Quote Originally Posted by meschenbruch View Post
    Fair enough, not trying to imply you've done something to the hub just trying to figure out the situation. I have one of those hubs ready to lace up, just waiting on spokes, so seeing other peoples experience is also in my interest (and i have a fresh hub at the moment!)
    No worries! Based on my experience I wouldn't use the xt rear hub. Love the price and feel of them, shame they keep breaking on me. Front one is fine, same proven design as past models. Not sure if you can get a hold of the new deore hubs yet, but they looks promising. Tried and true standard pawl design by the looks of it.

  10. #10
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    Mine started making an awful racket after ~300 miles. I put triflow in the mechanism that says 'do not lubricate,' and its been running silently since.

    I posted about it- https://forums.mtbr.com/wheels-tires...n-1126885.html
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    Quote Originally Posted by scottzg View Post
    Mine started making an awful racket after ~300 miles. I put triflow in the mechanism that says 'do not lubricate,' and its been running silently since.

    I posted about it- https://forums.mtbr.com/wheels-tires...n-1126885.html
    Does yours still disengage and go silent, or no?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Millennial29erGuy View Post
    Does yours still disengage and go silent, or no?
    it's silent all the time.

    Look at the link, i explained in detail. At least to the limit of my understanding.
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    I read the thread. The normal operation is for it to be silent only intermittently, that's why I'm asking.
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Millennial29erGuy View Post
    I read the thread. The normal operation is for it to be silent only intermittently, that's why I'm asking.
    With the plates lubed the hub is silent.

    Mine was missing the spacer that keeps the plates connected. The only other not-psyclence hub i've seen doesn't go silent intermittently, didn't start making a racket at 300 miles, and had that spacer.

    That's all i know, unfortunately.
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by scottzg View Post
    With the plates lubed the hub is silent.

    Mine was missing the spacer that keeps the plates connected. The only other not-psyclence hub i've seen doesn't go silent intermittently, didn't start making a racket at 300 miles, and had that spacer.

    That's all i know, unfortunately.
    thanks! It's an interesting freehub design. Haven't been able to inspect one myself
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    Quote Originally Posted by scottzg View Post
    With the plates lubed the hub is silent.

    Mine was missing the spacer that keeps the plates connected. The only other not-psyclence hub i've seen doesn't go silent intermittently, didn't start making a racket at 300 miles, and had that spacer.

    That's all i know, unfortunately.
    thanks for the info scott, I really appreciate it! Be good to start generating some info on these hubs for others to find. Both on the hubs I have had were silent intermittently, the faster I went, the quieter they got. I also tried lubing the internals of the first hub that fell apart, on shimano's recommendation funnily enough! It temporarily stopped the creaking, and made it go silent at lower speeds, but still loud below 10mph(ish). after a few weeks the creak came back. What model of hub was the "other" not-syclence hub you were refering to?

    Was the spacer you were missing the slider(highlighted in red on your forum) on the back of the freehub unit or the toothed one that slots in between the splines? Both of mine had the slider spacer on the back in place, it gets pushed up into the slot by the spring and stays there for me. Any issues with the toothed spacer getting chewed up? Happened on both of my hubs.

  17. #17
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    Following with interest. I just built a wheel with the SLX hub and put in a good month's MTB trip on it with zero issues so far. Don't know an exact number in miles.

    Mine also cuts in and out of ratchet/silent. Did this right out of the box.

    Hoping these don't end up being Shimano's Guide brakes because it's a fantastic hub and I really don't want to have to rebuild my wheel.
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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by eicca View Post
    Following with interest. I just built a wheel with the SLX hub and put in a good month's MTB trip on it with zero issues so far. Don't know an exact number in miles.

    Mine also cuts in and out of ratchet/silent. Did this right out of the box.

    Hoping these don't end up being Shimano's Guide brakes because it's a fantastic hub and I really don't want to have to rebuild my wheel.
    good to hear!

  19. #19
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    I wanted to give an update of what I've found on these hubs so far.

    1) Me, 2 xt hub's failed- one fell apart+creaking, second creaking+ tried to lock on. see first forum post.

    2)Scottzg, xt. Creaking+missing slider. see https://forums.mtbr.com/wheels-tires...n-1126885.html

    3) Eicca, SLX. No issues.

    4) NSMB magazine, XTR. Hub freewheeled in both directions in the cold/wet. 2 cases, the author and a commenter reported the same issue. (has great pics of internals)
    https://nsmb.com/articles/teardown-s...tr-m9100-hubs/

  20. #20
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    subscribed & good luck fellas.
    I have a new XTR and SLX f/r set that I am planning on building up but will sit tight and see how this thread plays out. They were backups for when & if my stock wheelsets failed

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    My slx is working perfectly fine after a few thousand km and through the winter with salt and slush. Not used much offroad though, so they haven't been thrashed torque wise.

    The intermittent ratcheting is the normal way of operation. They are only silent randomly when a combination of inertia and speed hits a sweet spot.

    The falling apart confuses me entirely. You need to use a wrench to remove the end cap before you can attempt to remove the freehub body.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by scottzg View Post
    The only other not-psyclence hub i've seen doesn't go silent intermittently, didn't start making a racket at 300 miles, and had that spacer.
    This hub started creaking too, i found out. He lubed it like i did mine to cure it. Silent now.
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    Quote Originally Posted by scottzg View Post
    This hub started creaking too, i found out. He lubed it like i did mine to cure it. Silent now.
    Good to hear. That worked temporarily for me, but my hubs had more that just the creaking issue. Have you had any problems with the toothed spacer that goes between the hubshell and freehub body? Mine were both chewed up, with missing and deformed teeth. Not surprising to me given they were delicate plastic bearing heavy pedaling load.

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    Quote Originally Posted by smashysmashy View Post
    My slx is working perfectly fine after a few thousand km and through the winter with salt and slush. Not used much offroad though, so they haven't been thrashed torque wise.

    The intermittent ratcheting is the normal way of operation. They are only silent randomly when a combination of inertia and speed hits a sweet spot.

    The falling apart confuses me entirely. You need to use a wrench to remove the end cap before you can attempt to remove the freehub body.
    Glad yours is working well! I wonder if there is anything different in the internals of the slx hubs, I've only seen the insides of xt and xtr... But if it ain't broken, don't fix it!

    I was pretty sure that the intermittent noise was normal.

    Yeah, the falling apart was really strange. The cassettes are quite heavy, so if those c clips pop out the cassette is an effective slider hammer to pop the endcap off. The endcaps don't require much force to pull off, just like dt swiss ones.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by nbb109 View Post
    Good to hear. That worked temporarily for me, but my hubs had more that just the creaking issue. Have you had any problems with the toothed spacer that goes between the hubshell and freehub body? Mine were both chewed up, with missing and deformed teeth. Not surprising to me given they were delicate plastic bearing heavy pedaling load.
    Name:  1307881d1579993313-shimano-scylence-information-slider.jpg
Views: 205
Size:  17.3 KB

    Are you talking about the part just to the right of the freehub body unit? I've never seen any damage to that. I think it just keeps the bits spaced evenly, it shouldn't be carrying a load?
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    Quote Originally Posted by nbb109 View Post
    Glad yours is working well! I wonder if there is anything different in the internals of the slx hubs, I've only seen the insides of xt and xtr... But if it ain't broken, don't fix it!

    I was pretty sure that the intermittent noise was normal.

    Yeah, the falling apart was really strange. The cassettes are quite heavy, so if those c clips pop out the cassette is an effective slider hammer to pop the endcap off. The endcaps don't require much force to pull off, just like dt swiss ones.
    The end caps don't just "pull" off like DT. They have to be turned with a wrench. Not threaded, but they do need a twist.

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    Quote Originally Posted by smashysmashy View Post
    The end caps don't just "pull" off like DT. They have to be turned with a wrench. Not threaded, but they do need a twist.
    Huh, mine pull straight off. Maybe a difference between xt/xtr and slx? Mine actually has flat faces that prevent the end cap from turning once it's popped on, see the upper right of the photo that scottzg posted, post #25.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by scottzg View Post
    Name:  1307881d1579993313-shimano-scylence-information-slider.jpg
Views: 205
Size:  17.3 KB

    Are you talking about the part just to the right of the freehub body unit? I've never seen any damage to that. I think it just keeps the bits spaced evenly, it shouldn't be carrying a load?
    Yes that's the one. You'd know if it was beat up the way mine was, couldn't put it back into place. I'm not sure it takes load, more of rocking as the the hub spline shift to engage, then unloading to allow freewheeling. Guess it's just mine. thanks for the reply!

  29. #29
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    I think the xt and slx are basically identical except slx has a steel axle.
    When the end cap does on, theres a little "plastic clip" inside that needs a twist to release. Its been a while since I took mine off (I modded mine to 135qr)
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails multiple XT M8100 hub failures-slx_axle.jpg  


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    The LBS finally got my wheel back from shimano warranty, 6.5 weeks later...(dang covid 19!) Much to my surprise, shimano included a generous care package. The orginal hub was fully rebuilt with a new freehub unit and new bearings, as well as including an extra freehub unit with all of the associated internal springs and spacers, and two pots of special grease. To top it all off, I even got a brand new cassette free of charge with nothing in the warranty about a cassette!!

    By the looks of it, they've updated the plastic toothed spacer to a different type of plastic. Also included were very specific instructions on how to rebuild/what to grease to stop the creaking if it happens again. seems they've updated the service guidelines in light of the creaking issue, asking for grease to be used in very specific locations on the splines. They thought the last freehub unit locked on because part of the broken toothed spacer was inside the ratchet mechanism. I've included pictures of everything they sent me, as well as scans of the instructions in the link below(can't upload images straight to the forum for some reason).

    https://drive.google.com/drive/folde...7r?usp=sharing

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    Nice great info thx for sharing it!!

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  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by nbb109 View Post
    The LBS finally got my wheel back from shimano warranty, 6.5 weeks later...(dang covid 19!) Much to my surprise, shimano included a generous care package. The orginal hub was fully rebuilt with a new freehub unit and new bearings, as well as including an extra freehub unit with all of the associated internal springs and spacers, and two pots of special grease. To top it all off, I even got a brand new cassette free of charge with nothing in the warranty about a cassette!!

    By the looks of it, they've updated the plastic toothed spacer to a different type of plastic. Also included were very specific instructions on how to rebuild/what to grease to stop the creaking if it happens again. seems they've updated the service guidelines in light of the creaking issue, asking for grease to be used in very specific locations on the splines. They thought the last freehub unit locked on because part of the broken toothed spacer was inside the ratchet mechanism. I've included pictures of everything they sent me, as well as scans of the instructions in the link below(can't upload images straight to the forum for some reason).

    https://drive.google.com/drive/folde...7r?usp=sharing
    Very nice... you are lucky because that grease is still in very limited supply
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  33. #33
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    What material are the teeth of the ratchets made of?
    I like 'em long, low, slack and playful

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    The actual ratchets (which you cant see unless you take it completely apart) are hardened steel. The plastic bit go between the engagement splines, which I think are just aluminium, and I assume where the creak comes from.

    The way the hub works is that the helical spline pulls the ratchets apart and tries to keep them apart when coasting (this was the premise of the silence mechanism), and when pedalling it forces them together. Without the silence function, It Is in some ways like a king hub. Of course without the silence.

    I wonder if some part inside the SLX hub is steel then, and less/not susceptible to this creak.

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    Quote Originally Posted by smashysmashy View Post
    The actual ratchets (which you cant see unless you take it completely apart) are hardened steel. The plastic bit go between the engagement splines, which I think are just aluminium, and I assume where the creak comes from.

    The way the hub works is that the helical spline pulls the ratchets apart and tries to keep them apart when coasting (this was the premise of the silence mechanism), and when pedalling it forces them together. Without the silence function, It Is in some ways like a king hub. Of course without the silence.

    I wonder if some part inside the SLX hub is steel then, and less/not susceptible to this creak.
    I was wondering about that. The SLX hubshell splines are probably alloy, but maybe the freehub unit splines are steel? Not sure if that would help will creaking.

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    Freehub is aluminium. Don't know if the splines are part of the freehub or an attached piece.

    Is there any spot on the splines on either side with visible wear?

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    Hmm, I guess theres 2 sliding interfaces. one is the helical spline, which is on the freehub and would be aluminium on all the hubs. this engages one steel ratchet side. the other steel ratchet side has straight splines and those engage the hub shell. So, its steel to aluminium on all interfaces.

    I cant see any area where the slx would be different. Coatings maybe? different grade aluminium or steel? I mean, I wouldn't be surprised if the only difference between the hubs was the steel axle - maybe just the stiffness in that axle prevents this creaking?

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by smashysmashy View Post
    Hmm, I guess theres 2 sliding interfaces. one is the helical spline, which is on the freehub and would be aluminium on all the hubs. this engages one steel ratchet side. the other steel ratchet side has straight splines and those engage the hub shell. So, its steel to aluminium on all interfaces.

    I cant see any area where the slx would be different. Coatings maybe? different grade aluminium or steel? I mean, I wouldn't be surprised if the only difference between the hubs was the steel axle - maybe just the stiffness in that axle prevents this creaking?
    No visible wear. Based on the the document shimano sent me (post #30), it seems the sliding between the hub shell and freehub is what causes the creaking. The toothed spacer probably compresses over time, allowing for the some rocking or play. Add in grit and contamination to get creaking. I'd guess to make it work without the spacer would require much tighter tolerances when machining the splines, making it more expensive. Just another case of the bike industry cutting corners to hit a price point, passing on the problem to the consumer... especially the consumers who put big miles on their bikes.

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    Well it will be less about precision, more about wear. the tighter fitting splines would probably cause more wear (they'd be in contact more). So probably not corner cutting, probably that setup worked best. DT has much finer spline teeth and they are all steel on both sides.

    I saw a post about creaking in an 8110 hub and the guy said it was form the spring getting twisted, which he fixed and the creaking went away. Too many variables in these hubs I think. Ill just keep an eye on mine, it get lots of abuse, but not offroad.

    My other micro spline hubs are Hope. They have their own flaws, but work well enough.

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by smashysmashy View Post
    Well it will be less about precision, more about wear. the tighter fitting splines would probably cause more wear (they'd be in contact more). So probably not corner cutting, probably that setup worked best. DT has much finer spline teeth and they are all steel on both sides.

    I saw a post about creaking in an 8110 hub and the guy said it was form the spring getting twisted, which he fixed and the creaking went away. Too many variables in these hubs I think. Ill just keep an eye on mine, it get lots of abuse, but not offroad.

    My other micro spline hubs are Hope. They have their own flaws, but work well enough.
    Well I'm glad you posted all of this. Seems the M8000 XT is the way to go if going with Shimano. It's a shame the micro spline isn't working out as XT has always worked so well and been so durable.

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    Nothing wrong with micro spline. Shimano makes micro spline pawl hubs too.

    Also, the M8000 rear hub had a swath of failure reports too.. likewise the brakes, and the shifting is poor, generally regarded as one of shimanos worst groups in a long time.

    Point being, there's issues with anything, and there's literally tens of thousands of these hubs out there, and I expect most of them operating with no issues. We've heard reports on 2 or 3 bad ones here.

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by smashysmashy View Post
    Nothing wrong with micro spline. Shimano makes micro spline pawl hubs too.

    Also, the M8000 rear hub had a swath of failure reports too.. likewise the brakes, and the shifting is poor, generally regarded as one of shimanos worst groups in a long time.

    Point being, there's issues with anything, and there's literally tens of thousands of these hubs out there, and I expect most of them operating with no issues. We've heard reports on 2 or 3 bad ones here.
    That's good to know. My mistake making an assumption. My SLX on my 2014 Rocky Mountain vertex and the XT on my 2014 Santa Cruz tallboy were both really great to me. I loved the shifting. My current Deore 10 spd shifting stinks.

    Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

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    Incidentally on my second ride back on the rebuild hub(working perfectly so far) I had my xt 12spd shifter fail. This is actually my third one of these to fail. Didn't want to muddied the thread while looking for reports on the hubs, but now seems to be a good time to hijack it!
    They have all failed in the exact same way, the end of a small spring breaks, allowing it to come unraveled. this means the downshift paddle (larger cog/easier gear) no longer works because the pawl isn't held against the ratchet ring. see link for pictures(https://drive.google.com/drive/folde...qg?usp=sharing). shimano has warrantied 2, sending in the third. The first lasted 3 mo, sencond 2 mo, and the third 6 wks.

    This coupled with the hub issues, clutch issues(they come from the factory with barely any grease), brake issues(wandering bite points, and my friend had a brand new set of slx's come with leaky piston seals, oil all over the inside of the box) and crank failures(https://www.instagram.com/thanksshimano/?hl=en) makes me think shimano's QC has gone to sh$t.

    My plan is to switch over to xo1 shifter/mech, dt swiss 350 hub(if the warrantied one breaks again) and stick with shimano cassette, chain and chainring. Get the silky smooth shifting with (hopefully) reliable parts. Cherishing my old set of slx brakes that still work perfectly with over 10,000 miles of use.

  44. #44
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    My slx shifter is flawless, I like it a lot, nice feel. My XT is definitely "different". Feels very different, "stiff" to press and click (it's also instant shift, which is not on the slx). Only one ride on it so far (just finished building the bike). I guess more more thing to keep an eye on.

    My XT 10 speed also felt very stiff, hard to make it click when you were not pedalling. My slx and xtr 10 speed were smoother (even though the slx was shifting the same xt rear der). No issues with the shifter, just never liked the feel of any xt shifters. I imagine there's people who think the opposite.

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by nbb109 View Post
    This coupled with the hub issues, clutch issues(they come from the factory with barely any grease), brake issues(wandering bite points, and my friend had a brand new set of slx's come with leaky piston seals, oil all over the inside of the box) and crank failures(https://www.instagram.com/thanksshimano/?hl=en) makes me think shimano's QC has gone to sh$t.
    Shimano had a lot of japan factory problems - fire, flood, I forget what else - so I have thought these groups were maybe a bit rushed and not tested as thoroughly as they normally do.

    I actually like shimano cranks these days, but if you're the type of person that stresses a crank, the bonded hollow ultra light concept is maybe not the best choice. I have seen virtually every crank broken though. I broke an xtr m950, my friend snapped a race face turbine in half climbing in front of me. It is highly dependent on the rider. Rear hub is different as most people put basically the same stresses on the hub.

  46. #46
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    Shimano xtr trail cranks are welded. Race xtr are bonded.

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by TylerVernon View Post
    Shimano xtr trail cranks are welded. Race xtr are bonded.
    The failed cranks in his link were all bonded road cranks.

    I'm not sure there's any particularly notable failure rate with mountain cranks.

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by nbb109 View Post
    Incidentally on my second ride back on the rebuild hub(working perfectly so far) I had my xt 12spd shifter fail. This is actually my third one of these to fail. Didn't want to muddied the thread while looking for reports on the hubs, but now seems to be a good time to hijack it!
    They have all failed in the exact same way, the end of a small spring breaks, allowing it to come unraveled. this means the downshift paddle (larger cog/easier gear) no longer works because the pawl isn't held against the ratchet ring. see link for pictures(https://drive.google.com/drive/folde...qg?usp=sharing). shimano has warrantied 2, sending in the third. The first lasted 3 mo, sencond 2 mo, and the third 6 wks.

    This coupled with the hub issues, clutch issues(they come from the factory with barely any grease), brake issues(wandering bite points, and my friend had a brand new set of slx's come with leaky piston seals, oil all over the inside of the box) and crank failures(https://www.instagram.com/thanksshimano/?hl=en) makes me think shimano's QC has gone to sh$t.

    My plan is to switch over to xo1 shifter/mech, dt swiss 350 hub(if the warrantied one breaks again) and stick with shimano cassette, chain and chainring. Get the silky smooth shifting with (hopefully) reliable parts. Cherishing my old set of slx brakes that still work perfectly with over 10,000 miles of use.
    Sad times when people are running to sram for QC and durability.

    I never had high hopes for the shimano hubs, they are legendary for being reliably non-durable. Figured i'd take a chance and buy a dt350 if it came to it- they're so cheap!

    My 8100 kit has been flawless other than the hub, and if it keeps running silent and reliable i'm still happy with it.

    Your decision makes sense though. Sad.
    "Things that are complex are not useful, Things that are useful are simple."
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  49. #49
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    Scottzg-Me too, a real shame I've been having so many failures. In terms of feel and function (when everything is working) this new shimano 12spd is so nice! Never had the pleasure of looking forward to shifting just from the sheer novelty of how crisp and smooth it is.

    Smashysmashy- Yes, the crank failures are just for road by the looks of it, here's an interesting analysis of a possible cause(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rj__lexd_BI). I included it more to illustrate my point of poor QC becoming a thing with shimano. I have the MT900 non series xtr crank and really like it. simple, light and good chainrings. side note: the new slx and xt chainrings are exactly the same thing, just different colors. Same with the chains, just a different coating that probably lasts a week. Have been getting pretty much the same lifespan out of slx and xt chains.

  50. #50
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    m900 crank is the xt crank with the xtr ring.

    And yup, I noticed right away that's the xt and slx rings are the same, and the cranks arms aside from colour and subtle shaping are really the same. Cassette is the same except the one cog. Derailleur is also virtually identical. slx looks nicer too. Basically, don't buy XT :P

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by smashysmashy View Post
    m900 crank is the xt crank with the xtr ring.

    And yup, I noticed right away that's the xt and slx rings are the same, and the cranks arms aside from colour and subtle shaping are really the same. Cassette is the same except the one cog. Derailleur is also virtually identical. slx looks nicer too. Basically, don't buy XT :P
    Haha yes, not much point in xt! Do like the xt rear mech slightly more, clutch adjustment port and bearings in the pulley wheels. The SLX cassette is way better too, the 45t is my most used climbing gear so making it steel is a no brainer, the splines to go on the freehub are better too. Full engagement along the while length of the spider vs just a ridge on each end on XT. Not a function difference, but much more satisfying.

    The MT900 crank is super light, mine came in at 495g w/o chainring. 175mm length. Not sure what the xt weighs, maybe slightly different construction.

  52. #52
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    The mt900 crank IS the xt crank as far as i'm aware. They released it because there were problems with the m9100 crank. then some months later the xt branded one came out.

  53. #53
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    How much play should a new xtr micro spline have without cassette installed?
    I can pull/push freehub and it goes in and out a bit, feels like 1mm but probably less. No side-to-side play.
    Normal or does indicate something like spacer is missing like talked about earlier?
    Sometimes Rickety, not a turd

  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Turd View Post
    How much play should a new xtr micro spline have without cassette installed?
    I can pull/push freehub and it goes in and out a bit, feels like 1mm but probably less. No side-to-side play.
    Normal or does indicate something like spacer is missing like talked about earlier?
    Totally normal. On mine, with the wheel out there is a fair bit of play, once it's bolted up in the frame everything gets compressed leaving just a tiny bit of in/out play. If you read the service manuals they state this is to allow the freehub mechanism to fully disengage.

  55. #55
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    Thanks 109, just bought a rear to get started with a 12spd changeover and the shimano hub was not in the plan. It was too cheap to pass up, so now I'm reverse researching.
    Sometimes Rickety, not a turd

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    No problem! Glad you found the thread, the whole reason I started it was so people can see real life experience before buying. The price makes them almost impossible to beat. Sad that they creak... Be great if you could report back in a few months when you get some good miles on it.

  57. #57
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    So i took my slx hub bike on the trails today.
    I definitely could hear some sort of noise under power up hills and accelerating. Hard to know if its from the hub, but if I was guessing, it sounds like the aluminium drive splines pressed firmly together and every so slightly shifting against each other as the load varies. low pitched "pop" sporadically under power. Not consistent with pedal strokes like most other creaks.

    I probably wont ride it more than 1 or 2 more times off road this year, but ill keep an eye on it.

  58. #58
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    Ugh, starting to think that the deal that I got on a pair of 900 series hubs wasn't such a good deal.

    Guess the question now is, do I build them up. Just ordered the spokes too.

  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by jochribs View Post
    Ugh, starting to think that the deal that I got on a pair of 900 series hubs wasn't such a good deal.

    Guess the question now is, do I build them up. Just ordered the spokes too.
    My LBS mechanic brought this to my attention last time I was in, shimano quietly released a standard 3 pawl rear hub. Looks to have the same flange dimensions(don't quote me on that). The front hub is bombproof, same thing that has been in production for 30+ years.

    https://bike.shimano.com/en-EU/produ...H-MT510-B.html

  60. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by nbb109 View Post
    My LBS mechanic brought this to my attention last time I was in, shimano quietly released a standard 3 pawl rear hub. Looks to have the same flange dimensions(don't quote me on that). The front hub is bombproof, same thing that has been in production for 30+ years.

    https://bike.shimano.com/en-EU/produ...H-MT510-B.html
    Holy Moly. 440 grams. I was really hoping to get my hands on the new 240 EXP hubs with centerlock but talking to DT, they said they weren't expecting them until fall. I'm in the middle of a new bike build and figured I would just build some holdovers until those hubs came available. Saw the M-900 hubs at a pretty good price so I went with them. Supposed to be a middle ground between XTR and XT. Hope they run well and without problems, but I guess by then I'll be able to get my hands on the 240 EXP's.

  61. #61
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    Not too bad for a $57 cup and cone hub. What sort of wheelset are you looking to build up? I'm considering selling my wheelset I built up, xt 8100 hubs, dt xm481 30mm ID rims, dt comp race spokes, boost 29er. let me know if you are interested, have a brand new xt 10-51t cassette I'd include too.

  62. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by smashysmashy View Post
    So i took my slx hub bike on the trails today.
    I definitely could hear some sort of noise under power up hills and accelerating. Hard to know if its from the hub, but if I was guessing, it sounds like the aluminium drive splines pressed firmly together and every so slightly shifting against each other as the load varies. low pitched "pop" sporadically under power. Not consistent with pedal strokes like most other creaks.

    I probably wont ride it more than 1 or 2 more times off road this year, but ill keep an eye on it.
    That sounds about right. Started off as some feeling off, then slowly got louder over a few rides once dirt gets in.

  63. #63
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    The mt510 came out when slx/xt did. It's used on alot of bikes with slx. It's all steel, deore grade, which is why its very heavy and I expect the bearings to be deore grade - as in, fairly poor (compared to xtr anyway).

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