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  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by sissypants View Post
    Oh cmmon, this is a DIY project If it ever would hit the market it would be because it is so different from Berd that it makes sense to market it.

    I wouldn't market until I could improve on the hub interface and materials used. My chemistry background is coming in handy DM20 isn't the only material out there like this.
    Is it likely they'll take action, no. However, full disclosure is that they can solely based on the fact of it being made. Commercialization has no bearing in the matter.

    Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

  2. #102
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    Okashira and I have had the patent infringement discussion in PMs. I bring it up because it's such a common misconception, but the statute provides:

    whoever without authority makes, uses, offers to sell, or sells any patented invention, within the United States, or imports into the United States any patented invention during the term of the patent therefor, infringes the patent.

    So, even making one or two or three in your garage is patent infringement for which one can be sued. However, patent infringement lawsuits are very expensive and no patent owner is likely to sue you for making a few infringing products that don't significantly cut into the market for the product.

    Berd's patent hasn't been granted yet, so there's nothing to sue over. But it will be granted soon.

  3. #103
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    Why not Kevlar, after all? Its available for cheap at retail. Cursory search gave $23 for a roll of 700# test, 1.8mm rope from Emma Kites via Amazon. That would be a bikes worth. Its not obvious if its name brand Kevlar or which version. I guess you could call and find out. You could also paint it with PU.

    Spinergy Spox are still available, I just looked. They are made of a fiber called PBO, trade name Zylon.

  4. #104
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    I was just reminiscing about bending piano wire (spring steel) to make landing gear, or worse, rubber motor hooks, for my model airplanes. That stuff was tempered hard. Looking up spokes, even CX-Ray spokes are not as hard as that stuff is, and a straight spoke is less than half the strength. Made me unafraid of both trying to bend it, or the result breaking because of the bend.

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by TwiceHorn View Post
    Okashira and I have had the patent infringement discussion in PMs.(...)
    I don't want to start a discussion about patent infringement, but apart from the type of fiber, that is commercially available, and that has a splice loop at one end of the rope, that they can't reclaim patent, what we are talking about is, in my opinion, different enough to not infringe their patent.
    To be completely honest I don't even think that they have enough ground to be granted a patent on their product, but it's not my job to judge, I just like to thinker with things.
    But I honestly do want to know your opinion on if we will be infringing their patent if we build a spoke the way we have been speaking, I ask this because you clearly know more about patents than me and, I bet, more than most reading this thread.

    Thanks!
    Last edited by Aglo; 1 Week Ago at 02:46 AM.

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Lefty View Post
    I was just reminiscing about bending piano wire (spring steel) to make landing gear, or worse, rubber motor hooks, for my model airplanes. That stuff was tempered hard. Looking up spokes, even CX-Ray spokes are not as hard as that stuff is, and a straight spoke is less than half the strength. Made me unafraid of both trying to bend it, or the result breaking because of the bend.
    Are you talking about making an eye by bending a spoke?
    If so, think about it this way, J-bend spokes are bent spokes .

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aglo View Post
    Are you talking about making an eye by bending a spoke?
    If so, think about it this way, J-bend spokes are bent spokes .
    Yeah but that's done with a lot of tooling and some science. I want to do it with a pair of pliers and my hands. How good is good enough?

  8. #108
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    The most importar thing on my opinion is precision and repeatability, the best and fastest way to achieve this is to use/make a rig.
    So, three or four removable pins and a fixed nut to thread and fix the spoke should be all we need.

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Lefty View Post
    Why not Kevlar, after all? Its available for cheap at retail. Cursory search gave $23 for a roll of 700# test, 1.8mm rope from Emma Kites via Amazon. That would be a bikes worth. Its not obvious if its name brand Kevlar or which version. I guess you could call and find out. You could also paint it with PU.

    Spinergy Spox are still available, I just looked. They are made of a fiber called PBO, trade name Zylon.
    Both vectran or pbo would be a better choice then Kevlar.
    Compared to all 4, DM20 has the best
    Uv resistance
    Strength/weight
    chemical resistance
    Abrasion resistance

    It's available. I will post up a source for 1.5 mm size also.
    I think I posted a a source for 1.8mm vectran as well

    Kevlars abrasion resistance and poor chemical resistance really makes it hard to use for spokes

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aglo View Post
    I had to think for 3sec on what you were talking about with Z-bend .

    When I was talking about bending a spoke and braze it with brass I was referring to something like the picture bellow, the yellowish area is where the braze is made.

    Attachment 1223164
    I kinda like this, worth a try.
    TBH this might be a good way to produce these easily.
    Have them CNC wire bent from spring steel. Then manually braze them all. or figure out a way to lock it without a braze.

  11. #111
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    @Aglo I am liking your idea of bending a wire around to make a loop.
    We could have spring steel wire CNC bent into that shape, and brazing can be done in large quantities in an oven, just place a 10mm long piece of braze rod right on the joint and pop it in the oven.
    Use a low enough temperature braze filler and one can maintain some pretty good hardness on the wire.
    CNC wire bending:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQIYZ-iKuG4

    They could be bent, quenched, then the brazing process and tempering could be combined in 1 step; threads rolled after brazing.

    round spring steel wire has the further advantage of making a nice smooth round for the splice to sit on.

  12. #112
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    @Aglo I am liking your idea of bending a wire around to make a loop.
    We could have spring steel wire CNC bent into that shape, and brazing can be done in large quantities in an oven, just place a 10mm long piece of braze rod right on the joint and pop it in the oven.
    Use a low enough temperature braze filler and one can maintain some pretty good hardness on the wire.
    CNC wire bending:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQIYZ-iKuG4

    They could be bent, quenched, then the brazing process and tempering could be combined in 1 step; threads rolled after brazing.

    round spring steel wire has the further advantage of making a nice smooth round for the splice to sit on.
    http://www.amtekcompany.com/diwire-d...c-wire-bender/

  13. #113
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    Other sources for DM20

    https://www.armare.it/en/arc?arc[identificatoreLineaProdotti]=76&arc[identificatoreProdotto]=1354&arc[identificatoreCalza]=0
    ^^ nice website where you can order any size/braid.
    I have a feeling if you contact them they can do some 1.5 or 1.8mm DM20

    https://www.teufelberger.com/pub/med...5-2016_web.pdf
    Page 6
    ^^^ 350kg rated DM20 @1.5mm!. Nice

    Contact Us - Sky International - we are open 6 days a week
    ^Chinese supplier

  14. #114
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    https://www.mapquest.com/us/massachu...tion-368977017

    Seems like teufelberger and new england ropes are related.

    Might be worth asking to get some 1.5mm DM20 racing line.

    1.5mm would really make my eyebolt design much stronger/lighter since.. smaller hole.

  15. #115
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    I am not a patent lawyer, so I am all ears to what others have to say.

    Does Pi-Rope have a patent on Vectran Polyester for spokes? How do they secure their end bolts to the Vectran braid? If it's indeed adhesive I wonder what kind of strength they can get.

    This is a huge point of frustration for me, why can you just go out there and patent your favorite material for your favorite purpose? In my world of work, this would be akin to patenting your favorite gene for designing drugs for a certain cancer so nobody else can work on it (which was ruled against at the highest levels of jurisdiction). What's the diff?

  16. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by sissypants View Post
    I am not a patent lawyer, so I am all ears to what others have to say.

    Does Pi-Rope have a patent on Vectran Polyester for spokes? How do they secure their end bolts to the Vectran braid? If it's indeed adhesive I wonder what kind of strength they can get.

    This is a huge point of frustration for me, why can you just go out there and patent your favorite material for your favorite purpose? In my world of work, this would be akin to patenting your favorite gene for designing drugs for a certain cancer so nobody else can work on it (which was ruled against at the highest levels of jurisdiction). What's the diff?
    Generally speaking you cannot patent a new use for a known material. However, if that material must be modified in some way to make it work (as by using the "bury splice" to fix a metallic pin in the fiber), then the combination of the material and the modification may be patentable.

    When the Berd patent issues, its claims are simple enough that I will come back here and post them and do a little thumbnail analysis that might be useful for some of the peanut gallery. I'm on a number of hobby boards where patents come up rather frequently and so maybe it will be nice to correct some of the misapprehensions about them.

  17. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by sissypants View Post
    I am not a patent lawyer, so I am all ears to what others have to say.

    Does Pi-Rope have a patent on Vectran Polyester for spokes? How do they secure their end bolts to the Vectran braid? If it's indeed adhesive I wonder what kind of strength they can get.

    This is a huge point of frustration for me, why can you just go out there and patent your favorite material for your favorite purpose? In my world of work, this would be akin to patenting your favorite gene for designing drugs for a certain cancer so nobody else can work on it (which was ruled against at the highest levels of jurisdiction). What's the diff?
    no!! There is no patent for vectran or dm20 for use on spokes.
    Berds pending patent is very specific , related to their buried spoke end, super glue and their pulling the splice thru the hub and using the short piece of dyneema to hold it in the hub.
    There is no mention of material.

  18. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by okashira View Post
    no!! There is no patent for vectran or dm20 for use on spokes.
    Berds pending patent is very specific , related to their buried spoke end, super glue and their pulling the splice thru the hub and using the short piece of dyneema to hold it in the hub.
    There is no mention of material.
    yeah that is how it looks

    the method they patent is the way of using standard hubs and standard rims for a braided fiber spoke...and what is patented is the hub connection and the chinese finger trap thing

    maybe...I am no lawyer...
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  19. #119
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    Back to Kevlar (since I'm lazy). If we are wetting it out with PU then do we really need to worry about abrasion or UV resistance? The stuff from Emma Kites was black, too, not yellow, which should help.

  20. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Lefty View Post
    Back to Kevlar (since I'm lazy). If we are wetting it out with PU then do we really need to worry about abrasion or UV resistance? The stuff from Emma Kites was black, too, not yellow, which should help.
    Do you already just happen to have some ~1.8mm kevlar?
    I don't think PU will help much with the abrasion. You could just rub right through it. I think you'd want a double braided / covered rope. It's the actual UHMWPE fibers that resist abrasion because they are so slick and tough.
    It is also less chemical resistant. UHMWPE will just last alot longer.
    I have a 100m roll, and I think that sissy ordered 100m roll so we can sell you some of it.

  21. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by okashira View Post
    Do you already just happen to have some ~1.8mm kevlar?
    I don't think PU will help much with the abrasion. You could just rub right through it. I think you'd want a double braided / covered rope. It's the actual UHMWPE fibers that resist abrasion because they are so slick and tough.
    It is also less chemical resistant. UHMWPE will just last alot longer.
    I have a 100m roll, and I think that sissy ordered 100m roll so we can sell you some of it.
    I actually haven't pulled the trigger on that roll yet. I'm kind of not sure yet whether I'm going to pull the trigger on this project unless we can distribute costs on whatever eyebolt design we come up with. I want to make sure the numbers add up.

    This seems to be the most easily accessible product out there:

    https://www.amazon.com/Mastrant-MM02...DQX/ref=sr_1_1

    It's 2mm instead of 1.8mm, so for all practical purposes, basically the same thing. If the 1.8mm roll is still available I would get that though.

  22. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by sissypants View Post
    I actually haven't pulled the trigger on that roll yet. I'm kind of not sure yet whether I'm going to pull the trigger on this project unless we can distribute costs on whatever eyebolt design we come up with. I want to make sure the numbers add up.

    This seems to be the most easily accessible product out there:

    https://www.amazon.com/Mastrant-MM02...DQX/ref=sr_1_1

    It's 2mm instead of 1.8mm, so for all practical purposes, basically the same thing. If the 1.8mm roll is still available I would get that though.
    That won't work. I already got some. It's not braided. And it's 2mm with the polyester cover.
    Mastrant shipped me samples direct from the Czech Republic; only the cover is braided, not the DM20.

  23. #123
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    Oh, thanks for checking already! I emailed the supplier and they said the rope was 2mm but apparently they werent familiar with the product. Maybe Ill pull the trigger on the rope from the supplier you sent me.

    Braided vectran wouldnt work for our application?

  24. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by sissypants View Post
    Oh, thanks for checking already! I emailed the supplier and they said the rope was 2mm but apparently they werent familiar with the product. Maybe Ill pull the trigger on the rope from the supplier you sent me.

    Braided vectran wouldnt work for our application?
    Vectran is good. I would say it's the 2nd best choice to DM20.

    Not as chemical resistant or abrasion resistant and not as stiff.
    But much better then Kevlar

  25. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by okashira View Post
    I have a 100m roll, and I think that sissy ordered 100m roll so we can sell you some of it.
    Thank you for your kind offer but I think part of the goal here should be that anyone crafty can do it with supplies they can get easily. That's one major reason I keep harping on other fibers and bending straight spokes to make the ends. I don't mind being in on a group buy to lower the price. I've been doing those since usenet. But so far the Dyneema has an embargo and the Ti ends just seem like more luxury than engineering.

  26. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Lefty View Post
    Thank you for your kind offer but I think part of the goal here should be that anyone crafty can do it with supplies they can get easily. That's one major reason I keep harping on other fibers and bending straight spokes to make the ends. I don't mind being in on a group buy to lower the price. I've been doing those since usenet. But so far the Dyneema has an embargo and the Ti ends just seem like more luxury than engineering.
    @Darth
    Glad you would be part of a group buy.
    Dont be a negative nancy, lol.
    There is no "embargo" on dyneema. I have literally posted places to buy stuff at least three times.

    I have received confirmation armare will make DM20 in any size. Just send them an email. They are sending me some 1.25mm.
    You will probably have to order while/clear color and email them. I will confirm.

    I just just ordered 1.25mm SK99 racing line on their website, and sent them an email:Name:  Capture.JPG
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  27. #127
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    I forgot to post contact how I got Marlow 1.8mm DM20, since I already recieved my roll.
    https://www.chicagoyachtrigging.com/
    email Kristian, he is very helpful. He was able to drop ship a reel from Marlow.

    Here is my order info from Armare. You will probably have to order 100m minimum.
    Make your own polymer (UHMWPE) spokes?-capture2.jpg

  28. #128
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    Here is what I think ill do for my front wheel spokes....

    For my rear wheel, I ended up with a 28H because of a deal I got on a DT Swiss 180 hub, so I'll use 1.8mm DM20 with some custom ends that we're designing (or a bury)

    For my front wheel, Ill go for a 36H or 40H and use these spokes:
    無標題文件
    PSR AERO 1432

    They are 3.2mm wide, which is perfect. I'll drill a 1.35mm hole in the flat section and thread the 2mm end longer. Perfect.
    It will reduce the strength of the spoke, to perhaps 200kg or so, which is why ill use the smaller 1.25mm line and a higher spoke count with a bit lower tension.

  29. #129
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    Another good option; these were hard to find:
    無標題文件
    https://www.bikeonlineshop.net/pilla...45-spoke-black

    They are 13g. I might use these, and use a belt sander to get the diameter down to 2.0mm , before rolling threads on them.

    I received the 2.6mm / 2.3mm butted spokes I ordered, will take them to a machine shop to try and flatten the 2.6mm end when I get a chance this week.


    *******************************
    I was about to send this design off to a USA mfg, but I realized I need to do a strength test with a splice around 1.1mm thick material, to see if it needs to be thicker....
    If anyone has any comments now would be the time before I send it for quote and engage a manufacturer.
    I will send it to these guys first; I have worked with them before.
    Case Studies - Buyken Metal Products - CNC, Metal Fabrication, Quality, Kent Washington

    Make your own polymer (UHMWPE) spokes?-capture.jpg
    Last edited by okashira; 6 Days Ago at 08:44 PM.

  30. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by okashira View Post
    Another good option; these were hard to find:
    無標題文件
    https://www.bikeonlineshop.net/pilla...45-spoke-black

    They are 13g. I might use these, and use a belt sander to get the diameter down to 2.0mm , before rolling threads on them.

    I received the 2.6mm / 2.3mm butted spokes I ordered, will take them to a machine shop to try and flatten the 2.6mm end when I get a chance this week.


    *******************************
    I was about to send this design off to a USA mfg, but I realized I need to do a strength test with a splice around 1.1mm thick material, to see if it needs to be thicker....
    If anyone has any comments now would be the time before I send it for quote and engage a manufacturer.
    I will send it to these guys first; I have worked with them before.
    Case Studies - Buyken Metal Products - CNC, Metal Fabrication, Quality, Kent Washington

    Click image for larger version. 

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    I like the design a lot, I hope it works well!

    Glad to hear you've got a manufacturer ready to roll.

  31. #131
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    Here is a wire bent design as suggested by someone here...
    Weight comes to 1.1g or so.
    Manufacturing is an issue. Can't braze spring steel it because it would soften too much. Can't weld spring steel.
    Can't weld 302ss because it would also be softened.
    Brazing cold worked 302ss may work.

    Edit: actually welding might work. The wire pressed together and ultrasonically welded or maybe even spot welded.
    Make your own polymer (UHMWPE) spokes?-capture.jpg
    Last edited by okashira; 5 Days Ago at 10:44 PM.

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    Guys, I will be in Shanghai from the 19th to the 5th.
    I don't have alot of time in the meantime, but if anyone finds some relevant supplier in Shanghai. I may be able to visit them for quotes or some manufacturing guideance or prototype inspection.

    I'll bring some DM20 with me that i can splice into any prototype parts for strength testing

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    Okashira has already reviewed these, but since there's a bit of a collaborative effort on this, figured I'd post the other two major fiber/flexible spoke patents for the inspiration/consideration of others.

    This is kind of the pioneer and may be a bit speculative. https://patents.google.com/patent/US5110190A

    This is one of another set of three that may pursue a red herring https://patents.google.com/patent/US8794714B2

    The reason we have patents in the first place is to document ideas so that others can rely on them in their own work. Sometimes these failed or unsuccessful for uknown reasons ideas can provide important inspiration to others.

  34. #134
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    Regarding the 2.3mm(13G) alloy nipples, besides Sapim and Pillar that I can't find available anywhere, I found some guys that you might want try to contact: https://www.newsonsportec.com/

  35. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by okashira View Post
    Here is a wire bent design as suggested by someone here...
    Weight comes to 1.1g or so.
    Manufacturing is an issue. Can't braze spring steel it because it would soften too much. Can't weld spring steel.
    Can't weld 302ss because it would also be softened.
    Brazing cold worked 302ss may work.

    Edit: actually welding might work. The wire pressed together and ultrasonically welded or maybe even spot welded.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    I arrived at the same conclusion as you.
    I also considered spot welding, but I don't think it will work because the spokes are too thin, but I'm no expert on welding, so it may work.
    Other option that occurred to me was to leave a bigger tail after the loop and wrap it around the spoke for a couple of turns and solder the wrap, but don't know if it will hold.

  36. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aglo View Post
    I arrived at the same conclusion as you.
    I also considered spot welding, but I don't think it will work because the spokes are too thin, but I'm no expert on welding, so it may work.
    Other option that occurred to me was to leave a bigger tail after the loop and wrap it around the spoke for a couple of turns and solder the wrap, but don't know if it will hold.
    electronic spot welding would do that perfectly methinks.
    current is adjustable. it's commonly used for thin metals that can't take too much heat
    such as lithium battery straps
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  37. #137
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    how would you connect to the loop, like a larkshead ?

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  38. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by 127.0.0.1 View Post
    how would you connect to the loop, like a larkshead ?

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    Spot welding, ultra sonic welding, or brazing 302ss.

    I was also looking for an idea like this, it would make the cost really low even for lower quantities using CNC wire bending. But I am worried the extra material to make a knot or self locking mechanism as such would add alot of weight.

    1.1g is still pretty good. It gives a final spoke weight of about 2.15g for a 29er using 1.8mm DM20.

  39. #139
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    Buyken declined to quote.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQAMWzrByL4
    This could work well for the 302ss wire bend design.

    drawn 302ss wire in 2mm is available all the way to 300,000psi tensile strength (660kg break strength!) at very low cost.
    That's probably too hard, we will want something like 1/2 hard, or 180,000psi, so the bends can be made and threads rolled.

    As long as the HAZ (heat affected zone) of the weld doesn't extend out of the area where the wire is doubled up, it will remain nice and strong.

  40. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by TwiceHorn View Post
    Okashira has already reviewed these, but since there's a bit of a collaborative effort on this, figured I'd post the other two major fiber/flexible spoke patents for the inspiration/consideration of others.

    This is kind of the pioneer and may be a bit speculative. https://patents.google.com/patent/US5110190A

    This is one of another set of three that may pursue a red herring https://patents.google.com/patent/US8794714B2

    The reason we have patents in the first place is to document ideas so that others can rely on them in their own work. Sometimes these failed or unsuccessful for uknown reasons ideas can provide important inspiration to others.
    Thanks TwiceHorn.

    Yeah Spinergy's method is pretty cool.

  41. #141
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    @sissypants So you had a quote for gr5 titanium part.
    For some reason I thought gr5 Ti was pure Ti, which it's not. It IS 6Al-4V.

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    https://www.ebay.com/itm/5Pcs-Titani...19vK:rk:2:pf:0

    Use with the Berd method and get a 1.9g spoke.

  44. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by okashira View Post
    Here is a wire bent design as suggested by someone here...
    Weight comes to 1.1g or so.
    Manufacturing is an issue. Can't braze spring steel it because it would soften too much. Can't weld spring steel.
    Can't weld 302ss because it would also be softened.
    Brazing cold worked 302ss may work.

    Edit: actually welding might work. The wire pressed together and ultrasonically welded or maybe even spot welded.
    It'd be funny if you could call it electroforged like a Schwinn Varsity or a Stingray.

    Also, tied and soldered spokes used to be a thing. https://www.wheelfanatyk.com/blog/ty...ing-made-easy/

    I laughed a little at item 4 on that page's list. "A time when the price of labor was lower and craftsmanship was valued more highly." One of those clauses can be true but not both in the same sentence!

  45. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Lefty View Post
    I laughed a little at item 4 on that page's list. "A time when the price of labor was lower and craftsmanship was valued more highly." One of those clauses can be true but not both in the same sentence!
    It depends honestly. In an employer sided market it can hold true. Wages are low due to a surplus in able bodied workers and workers are just thankful to have a job are not complacent and go above and beyond to keep it.

    Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

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    Quote Originally Posted by 127.0.0.1 View Post
    how would you connect to the loop, like a larkshead ?

    Name:  looop.JPG
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    That is an option but we could just splice through the eye like we have being talking. But I think your suggestion would put less stress on the rope.

    @okashira, if instead of making the eye with a round shape we make a tear drop shape, it would be less susceptible to stretch and probably lighter.

    Do you think the 302ss is easily rolled with the Hozan head?
    Last edited by Aglo; 3 Days Ago at 07:52 AM.

  47. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aglo View Post
    That is an option but we could just splice through the eye like we have being talking. But I think your suggestion would put less stress on the rope.

    @okashira, if instead of making the eye with a round shape we make a tear drop shape, it would be less susceptible to stretch and probably lighter.

    Do you think the 302ss is easily rolled with the Hozan head?
    Most spokes are 302ss.

  48. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by okashira View Post
    Most spokes are 302ss.
    If I recall correctly my Sapin and DT are non-magnetic so you are most probably right. But I am almost sure my Wheelsmith are magnetic, have to check it later to be sure.
    Anyway, I ordered a 300Kg scale and some non chromed plated silver stainless spokes to do some brazing tests.
    Now I want to order some 12 strands Dyneema DM20 rope, either 2mm or 1.8mm, but I'm a little lost here, I know you should be extra busy now, but can you help me here and share some links of sellers that ship to Europe?
    Thanks.

  49. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aglo View Post
    If I recall correctly my Sapin and DT are non-magnetic so you are most probably right. But I am almost sure my Wheelsmith are magnetic, have to check it later to be sure.
    Anyway, I ordered a 300Kg scale and some non chromed plated silver stainless spokes to do some brazing tests.
    Now I want to order some 12 strands Dyneema DM20 rope, either 2mm or 1.8mm, but I'm a little lost here, I know you should be extra busy now, but can you help me here and share some links of sellers that ship to Europe?
    Thanks.
    Two places
    Marlow 1.8mm
    Email Chicago Yacht Rigging.

    Armare.it
    https://www.armare.it/en/

    I ordered some SK99, kite line on their website, 1.25mm. I then emailed them if they could make it from DM20
    They said yes and changed the order to DM20, same price.

    I think they have 1, 1.25, 1.5, 1.8 and 2



    On 302ss, 302ss is non magnetic when annealed, but becomes magnetic as you cold work it. The spokes that you have that are magnetic are probably just more cold worked.

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    I have a Ti company looking at custom forging.
    Ti 6Al-4V. aka Grade 5.
    This part would be 0.5g. or 1.6g for whole spoke.

    Cut off threads after tension and you can get 1.4-1.5g.

    The extra thread length is needed, helpful. I am shooting for 22-24mm long. You can always cut off excess.
    Longer threads makes it easier to get the length right.Make your own polymer (UHMWPE) spokes?-capture.jpg

    Can also do 1.8mm with 302ss, perhaps, about 0.8g.

  51. #151
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    @okashira--check your PM's. I sent you one yesterday.

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    @Zionic sorry they are sold.

    I am getting about 275kg break strength for this design. Good enough, IMHO, even for 28 spoke wheels. Amazing for 1.4g-1.6g spokes.
    The eye and the shaft fail at about the same time.

    Make your own polymer (UHMWPE) spokes?-animate22.gif

  53. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by okashira View Post
    @sissypants So you had a quote for gr5 titanium part.
    For some reason I thought gr5 Ti was pure Ti, which it's not. It IS 6Al-4V.
    Sorry for the delay, yes, it was from Dongguan Weimi Titanium parts. They were quoting $1.27/pc @ 1000 pcs and $1/pc @1500 pcs. They were rolling threads and forging the bolts. It was grade 5 titanium.

    Best way to reach them in particular is on Alibaba, but I'm sure there are more options out there.

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    @sissy,
    Ok I sent them the new design.

    Here is the file for the cutter jig if you have a 3D printer. The taper works great. No need for the tedious tapering of the tail.
    you can print out mm measurements on paper and glue/tape it if you want.
    https://1drv.ms/u/s!AuqwBZb5n5Jqg_YY0IsM9fDLRtww2A

    Make your own polymer (UHMWPE) spokes?-img_20181113_115747.jpg

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