Magic Mary/Hans Dampf Addix vs DHF/Aggressor?- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Magic Mary/Hans Dampf Addix vs DHF/Aggressor?

    So, what is the best all around set-up for a new Santa Cruz Bronson?

    Terrain is typical NY/NJ/CT with fun rocks and roots.

    Iíve always like my Maxxis set-up of a DHF/DHRII or Agressor out back, EXO. But saving 100g per tire with Schwalbe Snakeskin sounds good and the reviews on the new Addix stuff seem promising.

    So, grip and rolling resistance all around, who wins???

  2. #2
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    Tuned in.

    In the past there was no doubt in my mind that Schwalbies rolled way faster as a back tire when I used the Pacestar compound. Problem was it gripped like a plastic pop bottle on wet rocks. More than once my rear end did a full 180 spin out on a sharp, wet turn. If they gripped better I'd consider the new flavor. As confidence inspiring as Maxxis tires are, those Minions don't roll fast unless pointed down hill.

  3. #3
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    Try the new Addix soft if you've got slippery rocks and roots like we've got out here in Oregon. I'm running Schwalbe Magic Marys F&R and I love this tire for our lucious mud as well as gripping the babyheads & mud snakes.

    Whatever you do, don't get the DH casing unless you're actually doing DH runs. It feels like a solid rubber tire compared to the more supple lighter weight casing -- which ain't light, BTW. But it's good. The soft compound is key.
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  4. #4
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    If you are a tire cutter then stay well clear of the snake skin. The 100 gram savings is taken out of the durability of the tire. If you never get flats or have can run silly tire pressures and do not get rim strikes or feel the tire rolling then snake skin will be ok, but if you are not then the snake skin might be too flimsy. I personally do not know anyone fast or aggressive on the going down part that can get away with the snake skin.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by hitechredneck View Post
    If you are a tire cutter then stay well clear of the snake skin. The 100 gram savings is taken out of the durability of the tire. If you never get flats or have can run silly tire pressures and do not get rim strikes or feel the tire rolling then snake skin will be ok, but if you are not then the snake skin might be too flimsy. I personally do not know anyone fast or aggressive on the going down part that can get away with the snake skin.
    This. Where the OP is riding, I would steer away from Snakeskin at all cost.


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  6. #6
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    Magic Mary front and Aggressor 2.5 rear. The snakeskin is fine on the front, it's as strong in my experience if not stronger than exo. Get the aggressor in Double Down if you can and you're laughing. The aggressor rolls noticeably better than the Hans Dampf and doesn't give up much in grip.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by GRPABT1 View Post
    Magic Mary front and Aggressor 2.5 rear. The snakeskin is fine on the front, it's as strong in my experience if not stronger than exo. Get the aggressor in Double Down if you can and you're laughing. The aggressor rolls noticeably better than the Hans Dampf and doesn't give up much in grip.

    Same and I'm in eastern PA. Oddly enough the MM/Aggressor combo is damn near perfect match size wise and work perfect together. I trashed out a HD pretty quickly even in winter conditions previously. I did have good luck with a Bonti SE4 last winter though.
    I like to fart when I'm in front of you on a climb:skep:

  8. #8
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    1 vote here for the MM/HD combo. Don't know if you all have ridden the new HD but it's a huge improvement over the old tread. It's not quite as fast rolling as the aggressor but it's got grip for days out back. Addix is for real

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Gigi View Post
    1 vote here for the MM/HD combo. Don't know if you all have ridden the new HD but it's a huge improvement over the old tread. It's not quite as fast rolling as the aggressor but it's got grip for days out back. Addix is for real
    How would you compare the feel and sidewalk of the Snakeskin tires vs EXO?

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    Havenít tried the HD but Iíve tried both MM Addix Soft and DHF in 2.6 format up front. Iíd say rolling resistance is about the same but DHF has better cornering grip in dry, loose over hard conditions. MM works really well over wet rocks and roots. Been able to run both at low pressures (16-17 psi) on 30mm rim without issues.

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    Very condition depending. I'll say in my jagged rock dry conditions, I am on a 2.6 Butcher up front and the new HD Soft rear with a Pepi noodle installed. I ride some really jagged rocks and I've had no problems. They claim the new Snakeskin is tougher than the old one. Is it the rider, the products, or just blind luck. I use to tear a lot of tires when I first began riding but that hasn't happened in years even though I'm much faster.

    I really like this set up over the DHF/ Aggr set up. It gives up a little traction but has much better RR. I have an Eliminator that's going up front next but I'm staying on the HD for the rear as I really like it.

    The other thing I'd add is that when I was on a 27.5" bike, I needed wider tires than my 29ers need, to feel comfortable, around 2.5- 2.6s.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by cobrakillerta View Post
    How would you compare the feel and sidewalk of the Snakeskin tires vs EXO?
    I used to ride Minions with Exo for years, and feel that the Snakeskin on the MM/HD2 is a little more supple feeling. Not too supple like folding over in the corners, but a little more cush. But that could be because the Schwalbe tires are more balloon like to begin with. Whether that's a good or bad thing is up to you. I haven't had any problems with casing durability either, and they have been through multiple Downieville/Tahoe trips. The weight savings over Maxxis is real too, my HD weighed in at 820 or so.

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    Riding MM soft/HD soft. Would say that the Exo casing feels better. But the difference is not huge. RoRa compared to Minion SS is another story...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilgo View Post
    RoRa compared to Minion SS is another story...
    Can you elaborate?
    I run a MM/RR in the summer and am interested in knowing how the SS compares to the RR.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mykel View Post
    Can you elaborate?
    I run a MM/RR in the summer and am interested in knowing how the SS compares to the RR.

    Cheers!
    Minion SS is much more damped and supple. Much better grip also. RoRa requires higher pressure to avoid pinchflats, high enough to make bounce around. Don't like it at all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cobrakillerta View Post
    How would you compare the feel and sidewalk of the Snakeskin tires vs EXO?
    I like the EXO better it feels more damped at high speeds. The snake skin feels more pillowy at slower speeds but when you start to get going faster you have to start adding air to stop rim strikes and rolling over. At that point it starts to get quite bouncy. I also found the snake skin MUCH more pressure sensitive than EXO. if your pressure is off a couple pounds either way grip and ride suffer a lot on the snake skin.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilgo View Post
    Minion SS is much more damped and supple. Much better grip also. RoRa requires higher pressure to avoid pinchflats, high enough to make bounce around. Don't like it at all.
    Last summer I used a RoRa Apex 2.6" on the back and it has more sidewall support than Snakeskin without being as heavy and stiff as SG, but I don't know what casing options there are for the new HD.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by fsrxc View Post
    Last summer I used a RoRa Apex 2.6" on the back and it has more sidewall support than Snakeskin without being as heavy and stiff as SG, but I don't know what casing options there are for the new HD.
    With Apex, Snakeskin might actually be better then Exo. But in 29" there is only Apex in 2,6 width :/
    Would like both MM and HD 29x2,35 with Apex. Might even give RoRa 29x2,35 another try if they released a version with Apex and soft rubber.

  19. #19
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    ou might try running a DH-F front with a Nobby Nic rear tire to get faster rolling, though you would need to mix tire brands. This is a comparison of the Nobby Nic versus the DH-R as rear tires: https://www.dirtmerchantbikes.com/sp...tcherpurgatory

    I'm not sure about the current Hans Dampf, but the previous Hans Dampf was not a particularly fast rolling tire.
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  20. #20
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    Never tried DHF\DHR2 (maybe will give them a try next season), but i love the Magic Mary SuperGravity Soft (front)\Hans Dampf TrailStar (rear) combo for wet and muddy conditions in the Alps.

  21. #21
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    I am currently on DHF up front and DHR II in the rear, coming from an DHF/Agressor and early Ardent/Agressor setup on my Rocky (EXO and 3C-Maxx-Terra).
    So far the DHF/DHRII is the best allround all year setup for me. The Agressor may roll faster, but was a bit too fast / slippery in corners (dry) for me and is not really useable in wet conditions at all. The DHF is rolling quite fast, providing very good control and speed (cornering). The DHRII is providing a high amount of traction and still rolling pretty good. Both tires just feel so solid, stable and controllable even when pushing for the limits. Never let me down or put me suddenly in unexpected situations.
    The Highroller delivers even more traction in wet conditions, but with some penalty in summer. The Ardent is too sketchy under harsh conditions, even the 2.4 version.

    Speaking of Schwalbe: Hans Dampf 2.3 was a great tire on my old Kona, all year long with medium to good traction and rolling quite good - depending on the tire pressure, solid tire for muddy days, but cornering performance was not that impressive (stability).

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  22. #22
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    Don't forget Maxxis Minions have rubber compound options!
    My 2016 Trance came with cheap Shwalbe Nobby Nix and going to Minions was a huge increase in grip. I'm slow going uphill no matter what tire I have, so for me its about grip which is a safety thing and a fun thing.

    Currently on 2.5 DHF MaxGrip front and 2.35 DHF MaxTerra in the back.

    If I could try the new Schwalbe's for $40-$50 I would, but I'm not about to drop +$80

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilgo View Post
    With Apex, Snakeskin might actually be better then Exo. But in 29" there is only Apex in 2,6 width :/
    Would like both MM and HD 29x2,35 with Apex. Might even give RoRa 29x2,35 another try if they released a version with Apex and soft rubber.
    The Super Gravity has Apex.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DHRracer View Post
    The Super Gravity has Apex.
    SG for normal riding seems a little to much. Wasn't that clear I guess. Snakeskin with Apex and 2,35 width. Should be fairly durable and offer decent damping and support yet still keeping it at sub 1kg.

  25. #25
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    Ran a SG Vertstar MM in front before for trail riding. Sucked on the ups but it was minty on the downs. How's the new compound that replaced the Vertstar holding up and is it available in the snakeskin carcass?
    I like to fart when I'm in front of you on a climb:skep:

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilgo View Post
    SG for normal riding seems a little to much. Wasn't that clear I guess. Snakeskin with Apex and 2,35 width. Should be fairly durable and offer decent damping and support yet still keeping it at sub 1kg.
    That would a perfect rear tire for trail riding, or front for park riding, imo.

  27. #27
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    To be able to chose the tire compound is a nice advantage Maxxis offers, MaxxTerra seems to be the best choice if you wanna down and up.
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  28. #28
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    3C Maxxterra is a life suck as a back tire. I swapped out a front DHF 3C 29x2.5 to the back and while the grip was great the rolling resistance was truly awful. Dual is a much better choice as a back tire if you have to climb at all.
    I now have a DHF 3C 29x2.6 exo 120tpi front tire and it is amazing. Volume is much larger than the 2.5. The height is 14mm taller and the knob width is about the same.
    Making shit harder than it needs to be isn't awesome, it's just...harder.

  29. #29
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    The general consensus here seems to be MM, but I have run both and felt like the MM lacked volume and, more importantly, was horrible on wet roots and rocks compared to DHF. I was pretty surprised how small the tire was on my 30mm IW rims, most reviews I read said it blew up to roughly the same size as the DHF 2.5WT (since Maxxis tires run small), but that was not my experience. It did marginally better in mud, but I think I'd have chosen a true mud tire if I was riding in those conditions.

    Personally, though, I've gone from both of those to the new Vigilante 2.5 and feel it's better than both in all conditions. I think the DHF may have a leg up on tire wear, but everywhere else, the Vigilante seems to be better. It's got significantly more volume than both, the cornering grip is outstanding, but it seems to grab onto groups of wet roots and rocks better than any tire I've used. The only downside is the weight, it's marginally heavier than a DHF 2.5WT and significantly heavier than the MM 2.35, although the casing even in 'light' form seems fairly thick.

    That and I've yet to find a rear that matches the traction of the front, while the front stays planted and in place, the rear tends to break loose noticeably sooner and it requires me to manage things a bit differently when conditions are bad. I can't fault the tire for that, though, more my bike which has limited options for tire clearance.

    I haven't tried the new Hans Dampf yet, but I did get a chance to see one and it looks nice. Strangely, it was noticeably wider and higher volume than the MM that sat on the front. I measured the difference and it was something like 6mm wider knob to knob.

    I typically run a DHR2 in the rear when it's wet or during the winter, Aggressor all other times, but I may be switching that up this year.

  30. #30
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    Well, I didn't find the MAxxTerra "too" sticky, but I'm definitely no seconds hunter uphill.
    The DHR II is quite a nice tire and I do also enjoy the cornering performance during rest of the year.
    Tests say the new Hans Dampf is quite a good overall tire, so maybe that's your shot.
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  31. #31
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    I've been running the new style HD as a rear for 3 months now, which is considerably longer than I usually get out of my tires.
    Thoroughly enjoyed it. Rolls real fast for what it is, traction is darn good (although not quite as sticky as some rear Minion options). Traction remained high even as it wore. Snakeskin held up great even through very nasty sharp rock gardens. Anyways I had broke some spokes today and since I was going to have to fight a tire noodle anyways, I took the time to install...exactly the same tire, which is something I rarely do.
    Magic Mary/Hans Dampf Addix vs DHF/Aggressor?-20190119_132620.jpeg

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  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Suns_PSD View Post
    I've been running the new style HD as a rear for 3 months now, which is considerably longer than I usually get out of my tires.
    Thoroughly enjoyed it. Rolls real fast for what it is, traction is darn good (although not quite as sticky as some rear Minion options). Traction remained high even as it wore. Snakeskin held up great even through very nasty sharp rock gardens. Anyways I had broke some spokes today and since I was going to have to fight a tire noodle anyways, I took the time to install...exactly the same tire, which is something I rarely do.

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    Which compound is that?
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  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Travis Bickle View Post
    Which compound is that?
    Soft/ Grip.
    I'd certainly like to try the speed/ grip compound. But at this time I would not want to have less traction. In the middle of a 100゚ summer however it would probably a great choice for me.

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  34. #34
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    My HD2 soft has been wearing well too.

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  35. #35
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    Why do they not make this tire in Speedgrip in 2.35?
    I could use both a 26 and a 29 for rear duties.

    Not sure about using Soft for the rear on a trailbike for mostly medium - hard and hard over use.

    How does the Soft compare to both Pacestar and Trailstar which I have previously used on the rear wheel?
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  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adodero View Post
    The general consensus here seems to be MM, but I have run both and felt like the MM lacked volume and, more importantly, was horrible on wet roots and rocks compared to DHF. I was pretty surprised how small the tire was on my 30mm IW rims, most reviews I read said it blew up to roughly the same size as the DHF 2.5WT (since Maxxis tires run small), but that was not my experience. It did marginally better in mud, but I think I'd have chosen a true mud tire if I was riding in those conditions.
    Interesting, on 25mm IW rims my MM 2.35 and Aggressor WT 2.5 are the same width.
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  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by mykel View Post
    Why do they not make this tire in Speedgrip in 2.35?
    I could use both a 26 and a 29 for rear duties.

    Not sure about using Soft for the rear on a trailbike for mostly medium - hard and hard over use.

    How does the Soft compare to both Pacestar and Trailstar which I have previously used on the rear wheel?
    And how does it compare to say a DHR2 WT or Aggressor WT in Maxxis' Dual compound?

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    Quote Originally Posted by edeltoaster View Post
    And how does it compare to say a DHR2 WT or Aggressor WT in Maxxis' Dual compound?
    I've used the DHR2.4 and the Aggressor 2.5 plenty.

    Both of those tires have a bit more traction than the HD2 soft, while both roll considerably slower. For me, it's a good trade off going with the HD2.

    The missing traction is noticed maybe 15 brief moments per ride, maybe cumulatively 30 seconds worth. The better rolling resistance is very noticeable for the entire ride.

    Between a recent bike change combined with a recent tire change, I'm a much faster climber and higher average speed rider than I was just 3 months ago pre-change over.

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  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by edeltoaster View Post
    And how does it compare to say a DHR2 WT or Aggressor WT in Maxxis' Dual compound?
    They are both great rear tires. The aggressor has slightly more volume and rolls slightly better. I really like the overall feel of the aggressor. It's round profile transitions from side to side and it does everything well. Does not like mid. It packs up way to fast.
    The DHR feels a little stiffer and brakes way better. I run it in winter for mud and the softer ground seems to equal out the drag.

    Dual to 3c is huge. Grip and drag increase by about double.
    Making shit harder than it needs to be isn't awesome, it's just...harder.

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    The difference between 3C and Dual is very clear to me, but I wondered where the HD2 Soft would perform there in conparison to the Dual versions of said tires. I'm actually quite surprised the HD Addix Soft was said to roll faster since it has a lower Shore value.

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by alexbn921 View Post
    They are both great rear tires. The aggressor has slightly more volume and rolls slightly better. I really like the overall feel of the aggressor. It's round profile transitions from side to side and it does everything well. Does not like mid. It packs up way to fast.
    The DHR feels a little stiffer and brakes way better. I run it in winter for mud and the softer ground seems to equal out the drag.

    Dual to 3c is huge. Grip and drag increase by about double.
    Pretty much nailed it. The DHRII stops great, and drives great as a rear, but leans a bit poorly.
    I've never ridden the 2.3 Aggressor which i'm a bit curious about. I bet it's a lot closer to the HD2 in overall performance then the 2.5 Aggressor that I'm used to.
    One other nice thing about the HD2 is that very rounded profile as it drops into the turns very nicely.

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  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by edeltoaster View Post
    The difference between 3C and Dual is very clear to me, but I wondered where the HD2 Soft would perform there in conparison to the Dual versions of said tires. I'm actually quite surprised the HD Addix Soft was said to roll faster since it has a lower Shore value.
    Here is what I can say with certainty (both in 29"): the HD2 with a Pepi's noodle installed is MUCH faster rolling than the Aggressor 2.5 Dual with no noodle. I've ran both configs extensively.
    That said nothing out grips that Aggressor 2.5 in the back and still rolls decently. Almost had too much traction, it was hard for me to break loose when I needed to.

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  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Suns_PSD View Post
    That said nothing out grips that Aggressor 2.5 in the back and still rolls decently. Almost had too much traction, it was hard for me to break loose when I needed to.

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    This is where area and terrain comes in. Eastern PA with current conditions I can break it loose almost on demand till it froze. Up until this weekend its just been a wet mess though. Current conditions are straight up frozen tundra now. I got to be honest though it just works and is fun as hell. Its a hair loose, rolls ok and is predictable if you push it too far in the damp wet stuff. In the frozen tundra state it just works and bites in that much harder and seems to roll faster as long as the ground isnt heaved.


    Have you tried the Aggressor with a noodle in it?
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    Quote Originally Posted by GRPABT1 View Post
    Magic Mary front and Aggressor 2.5 rear. The snakeskin is fine on the front, it's as strong in my experience if not stronger than exo. Get the aggressor in Double Down if you can and you're laughing. The aggressor rolls noticeably better than the Hans Dampf and doesn't give up much in grip.
    That's not my experience. I've been riding an Agressor (26x2.3) last season and now on a Hans Dampf Addix (26x2.35) in the rear (both paired with a HD 26x2.35 in front) and the Agressor is noticeably slower, but has a slightly better grip for cornering. For all around riding, I favor the HD, but if you want to corner hard, the Agressor may be your best bet between those two.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerome View Post
    That's not my experience. I've been riding an Agressor (26x2.3) last season and now on a Hans Dampf Addix (26x2.35) in the rear (both paired with a HD 26x2.35 in front) and the Agressor is noticeably slower, but has a slightly better grip for cornering. For all around riding, I favor the HD, but if you want to corner hard, the Agressor may be your best bet between those two.
    New Dampf or old Dampf? Old one rolled crap, haven't used the new one. I wouldn't call either a great cornering tyre, the Specialized Eliminator has good cornering.

  47. #47
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    Still rolling my MM2.35/Aggressor2.5 combo, still pretty happy with it too. I did get a chance to ride it in dry loose over hard and it wasn't bad.
    I like to fart when I'm in front of you on a climb:skep:

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spectre View Post
    ou might try running a DH-F front with a Nobby Nic rear tire to get faster rolling, though you would need to mix tire brands. This is a comparison of the Nobby Nic versus the DH-R as rear tires: https://www.dirtmerchantbikes.com/sp...tcherpurgatory .
    I run combos of DHF WT EXO 2.5 front and Aggressor WT EXP 2.5 rear. I also run new HD Adix 2.35 soft up front and. DH Addix speed grip rear also 2.35.

    MM is my winter front tyre with HD rear.

    Use 35mm Ibis 942 Rims on Ripmo.

    The HD-HD combo is lighter and faster but give up grip, also pressure sensitive on front easy to get bet wrong and bounce off stuff. But still V good if want to go fast and has good levels of grip.

    The DHF 2.5 WT and Aggressor combo is just brilliant in dry hard pack or loose over or rocky trails. Massive grip, easy to set PSI, comfortable and great compliance over rocky trails at high speed (Iím Snowdonia in Wales). Itís not bad in wet and mud aggressor doesnít do wet roots as good as HD in rear (especially technical climbs with lots of roots) - when winter comes itís MM front and DH speed grip rear for me.

    Avoid the nob nic on rear - yes itís the fastest rolling in dry out of all the above combos and good for flow trails - but easy to loose grip and just donít go there in the wet or mildly damp (wet roots or rock and your in for a very sketchy and nervous rear with easy to loose grip at speed.

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by dirtrider76 View Post
    Still rolling my MM2.35/Aggressor2.5 combo, still pretty happy with it too. I did get a chance to ride it in dry loose over hard and it wasn't bad.
    I just switched to HD Super Gravity Soft from Aggressor 2.5 DD for a rear tire.

    Riding Front Range CO...

    HD has much better traction when wet, I spin out climbing tech a lot less. Better braking traction too. Cornering is hard to say, both are pretty decent. Rolling resistance seems similar too. HD weighs 140g less. Not sure on lifespan yet but HD is wearing kinda quick so far. I've also run MM soft in the front and got good life but soft for rear might be fast wearing.

  50. #50
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    Running Magic Mary Addix Soft 2.35 Snakeskin front, Hans Damp2 Addix Soft 2.35 Snakeskin rear, 27.5" 31mm inner rims, and Cushcore front and rear. So far, I like them a lot. I think it's the best all around setup for me, tons of traction and the right balance between rolling, suppleness, weight and durability... I'm not changing my tires throughout the year, same set for all conditions.

  51. #51
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    Can anyone compare the 2.5 aggressor to the 2.6 Hans? I am fairly happy with the Hans but curious if a 2.5 aggressor is better or worse?

  52. #52
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    May I ask what is the internal width of the rim?

    Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Suns_PSD View Post
    May I ask what is the internal width of the rim?

    Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk
    If your asking me 35mm


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by dirtrider76 View Post
    Still rolling my MM2.35/Aggressor2.5 combo, still pretty happy with it too. I did get a chance to ride it in dry loose over hard and it wasn't bad.
    Still the same months later. I'm actually surprised cause I usually shred through tires pretty quickly any other year. The Aggressor is pretty haggard looking while the MM is still pretty good. Been riding mostly LOHP and soft dry forest terrain though with a few pavement climbs.

    I'm pretty sure I'm not running the Aggressor again in back. While is not a bad tire its not a great tire either. Damned compound is just hard, if it came in a bit softer maybe but I think it would hurt its rolling resistance then.
    I like to fart when I'm in front of you on a climb:skep:

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