Koozer hubs, 72 POE @ under $60 - Page 4- Mtbr.com
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  1. #601
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    Thanks guys... I just ordered from Amazon so should have them by end of the week. Since I haven't built the hub up I will have to rely on one of you that has a broken blue ring to test for me, if it fits on my. Will post more once I get them.

  2. #602
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    Ok shims will be here on Friday so I will take an initial look to see if my measurements were correct. I talked with RevMega and apparently they are making some changes, didn't elude to whether purely cosmetic or not, but hopefully he has taken some of the information from here and reworked the hub.

  3. #603
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    I saw that there are actually 2 versions of this Koozer hub. One is the normal 32H and the other is 24H straight pull. Do they both have the same blue ring problem? And have any of you bought the 24H XR1700 wheelset which comes with the hubs and got the same problem?

  4. #604
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    The blue ring might be the smallest problem. I'd expect the 24h hub to be identical.

  5. #605
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    If I recall the 24h hub was a Chris king style star ratchet, but much less POE.

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  6. #606
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    Need some advice. I'm wondering if I should just get the entry level Mavic Crossride wheelset or take a risk with Koozer.

  7. #607
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    There's a million other, better options. Don't buy mavics!

  8. #608
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    Quote Originally Posted by beefsteak View Post
    Need some advice. I'm wondering if I should just get the entry level Mavic Crossride wheelset or take a risk with Koozer.
    If you are concerned about the Koozer then go with BHS... tried and true hub with great support. Lots of good have happened with the Koozer just seems that the 2016 version with the black freehub body has some issues. RevMega has been great in answering any questions I have and getting back to me in a timely manner.

    Like I said though, talking with him earlier this week via eBay message he said they are making some changes to the hubs so looks like there may be a revised version coming out shortly.

  9. #609
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    Well no dice on the shims. While they are close ID there is about 1mm of play so they do not "click" in like the blue ring. Have not been able to find metric shins anywhere.

  10. #610
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    So after some more discussion with RevMega I decided to return the hub, he was very gracious and understood. Since we had been exchange so much information he said to keep the hub and do what I want with it as he appreciated everything I had been telling him about.

    Anyways, I took the hub apart over the weekend to do a couple of checks and here is what I came up with...
    Axle length with caps on SHOULD be 142mm (+/- 1.5mm) and this is what I came up with
    Untitled by Greg Fisicaro, on Flickr

    So I decided to measure the axle itself.....
    Untitled by Greg Fisicaro, on Flickr

    Then I figured I would demonstrate what I was finding... The end cap on the drive side seemed to not be making full contact with the axle end. So I took a silver paint pen and marked the inside edge of the cap to see how much was showing. If you remember I was saying that it seemed that the end cap was not fully engaging the axle and was bottoming out on the metal race of the bearing. Well this is what that looks like..
    Untitled by Greg Fisicaro, on Flickr

    Hard to see in this one but you can tell there is a good 2mm of room from the inner lip of the end cap to the axle edge.
    Untitled by Greg Fisicaro, on Flickr

    What I am thinking is that this fact, along with the axle being too short and made of bad material has allowed the hub to flex under load. This starts with the blue ring cracking and breaking which then leads to the pawls detonating. If that does not happen, the flex is enough to cause uneven tension on the bearings, which are of unknown quality, and thus they detonate as well.

    After getting the drive side setup properly, without the bearing, and installing then flipping over and installing the non-drive side cap you can see the difference in how things really are. Look between 10 and 11 o'clock at where the anodizing does not come into the bearing area and you will see the silver of the raw aluminum between the end cap (which is bottomed out on the axle end) and the end of the hub body.
    Untitled by Greg Fisicaro, on Flickr

  11. #611
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    Thanks for digging in! I think that confirms a lot of things. Mainly, the hub itself is fundamentally flawed. Big time. Nothing except a new axle and new caps are going to fix that.

    Kinda explains my really nasty creak coming out of the hub too. Its all the pieces wobbling around metal to metal.

    On the plus side, if they can make a new axle and caps that actually fit, this COULD be a great hub.

  12. #612
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    Granted they should be able to do better than a 2 to 3 mm gap, but you certainly don't want the axle longer than the bearing stack. You need the inner bearing races and cups to be sandwiched together over a slightly floating axle. If the races we're not snug because the axle is too long, then there would be much more play, as much as the bearing clearances allow for.

    But thanks very much for dissecting it and taking pics. Gives us all more info to digest.

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  13. #613
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    Hopefully this is just something that was an oversight as it really does seem that it could be a good hub for the money. Couple extra MM for the axle length and that may fix a bunch of issues especially for us bigger mashers.


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  14. #614
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    I was shocked after I had my new rear wheel built with this hub. After I had the wheel all taped, sealant in and tire on, I did the usual wheel shake to get the sealant working around the tire. Well, while doing this my brand new Sunrace 11/42 cassette fell OFF the hub and bounced off the concrete. Not much holding this hub together when this happens? And this was after I properly secured and wrenched the cassette onto the hub....the hub just came apart from shaking the wheel to work in the sealant. Beware that the hub can easily open when NOT secured to your frame!
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  15. #615
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    Yeah that is definitely not good NH Mtbiker....

  16. #616
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    Quote Originally Posted by NH Mtbiker View Post
    I was shocked after I had my new rear wheel built with this hub. After I had the wheel all taped, sealant in and tire on, I did the usual wheel shake to get the sealant working around the tire. Well, while doing this my brand new Sunrace 11/42 cassette fell OFF the hub and bounced off the concrete. Not much holding this hub together when this happens? And this was after I properly secured and wrenched the cassette onto the hub....the hub just came apart from shaking the wheel to work in the sealant. Beware that the hub can easily open when NOT secured to your frame!
    Yeah....i have been barking up this tree for a while. Threaded end caps would allow for less machining tolerances to maintain proper bearing preload and securing the freehub so it won't fall off.
    Quote Originally Posted by GuitsBoy View Post
    Granted they should be able to do better than a 2 to 3 mm gap, but you certainly don't want the axle longer than the bearing stack. You need the inner bearing races and cups to be sandwiched together over a slightly floating axle. If the races we're not snug because the axle is too long, then there would be much more play, as much as the bearing clearances allow for.

    But thanks very much for dissecting it and taking pics. Gives us all more info to digest.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gregnash View Post
    Hopefully this is just something that was an oversight as it really does seem that it could be a good hub for the money. Couple extra MM for the axle length and that may fix a bunch of issues especially for us bigger mashers.


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  17. #617
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    The QR version has threaded endcaps.

  18. #618
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    Quote Originally Posted by cerebroside View Post
    The QR version has threaded endcaps.
    You sure?

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  19. #619
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    Quote Originally Posted by DudeDowne View Post
    You sure?
    Koozer hubs, 72 POE @ under -p_20160628_132400.jpg

  20. #620
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    @cerebroside What MY is your hub? Does it have the black freehub body?

  21. #621
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    do these come in 12x142 and 15x100 ?
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  22. #622
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    My black 2016 definitely doesn't have threaded end caps in any configuration.

  23. #623
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    Quote Originally Posted by spyghost View Post
    do these come in 12x142 and 15x100 ?
    You read the whole thread about these hubs breaking all over the place and still want one?

    Yes, they come in 142.

  24. #624
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    I think the 10x135 QR version should come with threaded end caps.

  25. #625
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    Quote Originally Posted by gregnash View Post
    @cerebroside What MY is your hub? Does it have the black freehub body?
    Bought it in early 2015. Not the black freehub, the earlier one.

    Interesting that they apparently changed to non threaded (if the later ones don't.)

  26. #626
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    Lets see, you guys want -
    - correct tolerances
    - threaded axles and end caps
    - stronger axle material
    - stronger freehub material
    - better bearings
    - more durable pawl fasteners

    Then it could be "a good hub for the money". I'm sure the guy on ebay will address all these things and keep the price the same. LOL

  27. #627
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    Almost 1000km on the old style threaded end caps hub.
    I don't notice any flex or creaking. The freewheel has normal use markings of an alu freewheel.

    Still didn't take it apart.

    So far I'm really satisfied with it.

    Last weekend I went on a marathon and it was trouble free. Even got a branch lodged between the cassette and the freewheel and blocking it.

    Removed it and finished the marathon trouble free.

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  28. #628
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    Quote Originally Posted by 92gli View Post
    Lets see, you guys want -
    - correct tolerances
    - threaded axles and end caps
    - stronger axle material
    - stronger freehub material
    - better bearings
    - more durable pawl fasteners

    Then it could be "a good hub for the money". I'm sure the guy on ebay will address all these things and keep the price the same. LOL
    I've worked quite a bit with Asian manufacturers direct. Its not like American companies. They have no ego with their products and they'll basically do whatever you'll pay for. Its not far fetched to ask for changes and get them.

    I had a whole order of hubs remachined for me. It was a small change, but they just did it with no questions. I was surprised.

  29. #629
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    I am about to start my experiment. I build my own wheels so the investment will be minimal. Going on my "C" bike. Going to reinforce the axle with a carbon fiber tube, I know others have used titanium and aluminum.

    I had to buy 4 tubes, 12mm od, 10mm id, each tube long enough to do at least 2 hubs. If anyone wants to do the same thing, and wants some carbon fiber tubing shoot me an IM. They fit in the existing axle perfectly, no additional sanding needed. just need to cut to length.

    Can send you a tube for $8 shipped.
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  30. #630
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    anyone here with Koozer XR1600 hubs?

  31. #631
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    Hi,
    I got mine as 135mm and it is "pressed" end caps. I believe that the threaded ones are 2015 model and the pressed ones are 2016.
    Mine also has rubber seal that is designated as 6201RS but it just the seal for the freehub body. The actual bearings are 6902 and 15267 for the freehub body and another 6902 for the hub itself.
    The blue ring was broken before I used the hub. The internal diameter where the ring is located is 28.5mm. It should be the ID of the ring. The OD of the ring is 33mm and it probably can be up to 36mm. Thickness is 0.65mm, give or take 0.1 mm it will work fine.
    I know that the measurement that was taken here was different.

    I bought it because the early posts were pretty positive about the hub. Now I not sure why bought this one and not Novatec.

  32. #632
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    Man I hate this thread. Just waiting for my 2 boys to be out riding with me and have their rear hubs grenade. Any indicators when they are about to go?

  33. #633
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    I've been abusing my thru axle rear hub for a little over a year now and it's held up great. I do have a little marring on the freehub and the blue plastic ring broke but neither has had an affect on performance.

    I do open it up once in a while to clean and put good quality dumondetech lube which may help.

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  34. #634
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    Yeah seems like the 2016 models (identified by the black free hub and pressed in caps) are really the issue and the 2015 seemed be great.


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  35. #635
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    May I know how would I know if mine is the 2016 model without dismantling the hub?

  36. #636
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    Quote Originally Posted by gregnash View Post
    Yeah seems like the 2016 models (identified by the black free hub and pressed in caps) are really the issue and the 2015 seemed be great.


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    Man, I hope you're right. I got both sets of hubs at the beginning of last winter, and was a bit bummed when I saw the newer versions. That would just be dumb luck if the older ones have less issues. Anyone having issues with the straight pull 24h hubs? So far they've been holding up, but my son is only 67lbs. We're there any changes to the xr1700 in 2016?

  37. #637
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    A new Star ratchet version was released. Seems exciting and may solve the issues you guys have described. I've put hundreds of miles on my first set of Koozers and now have a second. I have also preemptively replaced all the bearings with Enduro bearings.

    Wish i could try these star ratchet ones out.
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  38. #638
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    Glad to see they finally have a 32 hole version of the star ratchet freehub, but at only 28 PoE it forgoes the primary reason I went with the koozers in the first place. Still, I'd love to see how these hold up once people start putting them through their paces.

  39. #639
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    Quote Originally Posted by GuitsBoy View Post
    Glad to see they finally have a 32 hole version of the star ratchet freehub, but at only 28 PoE it forgoes the primary reason I went with the koozers in the first place. Still, I'd love to see how these hold up once people start putting them through their paces.
    Yea, that makes sense. However just from a durability standpoint these should be much less finicky. when you look at what the 6 pawl springs are made of they seem like the first failure point. Whereas this star ratchet, short of physical wear will last longer.

    I'm also curious why they altered the taper of the hub body itself and went straight. Why is the front hub different. Is this a stronger or weaker design, I know too little about stress and structures.

  40. #640
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    Looks like there is a new version of the 72HD, called the RS390. Interesting about the ratchet design version and wondering if they could use the DT Swiss ratchet upgrades.


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  41. #641
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    Quote Originally Posted by gregnash View Post
    Looks like there is a new version of the 72HD, called the RS390.
    That looks like a road hub. No provision for a disk rotor.

  42. #642
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    The star ratchet one has terrible engagement, and its not so affordable. That's a pretty tough sell.

  43. #643
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    One Pivot -
    You were one of the unlucky few to destroy the rear hub, right? I've been meaning to ask what the actual cause of death was. Was repair as simple as buying a new freehub, or was the ratchet ring completely annihilated?

  44. #644
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    Quote Originally Posted by gregnash View Post
    wondering if they could use the DT Swiss ratchet upgrades.


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    No way. The one ratchet is fixed to the freehub (machined from the same piece or bonded? Bet it's bonded). Therefore, only the inner ratchet engages the drive ring and that single spring is the lifeblood of the whole hub. Given their stellar engineering practices, I'm just going to assume that the silver shoulder on the freehub rides on a plastic bushing behind the red seal on the hub body. I'll be shocked if they would spend an extra buck for a bearing that big.

  45. #645
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    Quote Originally Posted by gregnash View Post
    Looks like there is a new version of the 72HD, called the RS390. Interesting about the ratchet design version and wondering if they could use the DT Swiss ratchet upgrades.


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    RS390 is a Road Hub.

  46. #646
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    Quote Originally Posted by GuitsBoy View Post
    One Pivot -
    You were one of the unlucky few to destroy the rear hub, right? I've been meaning to ask what the actual cause of death was. Was repair as simple as buying a new freehub, or was the ratchet ring completely annihilated?
    Mines still limping along. It was significantly damaged in under 5 rides. 5-10 miles each.

    Blue ring cracked. The pawls are increasing deforming the freehub itself. It now creaks constantly and loudly. It has skf and Enduro bearings.

    I cant take the noise! I'm back on bitex/bhs. I can see its on its way out, and I'm not willing to risk it.

  47. #647
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    I just pulled the bearings out of my freehub today, and I can see exactly what you mean. There is deformation of the freehub directly under each of the six pawl pivot points. Its bulging inward towards where the bearing sits. It almost looks like stress fractures are developing. I fear I may be in the same boat as you, though its not making a terrible racket quite yet. I got about 300 miles out of this freehub, and at 32 bucks, its not horribly expensive to replace. But after a couple times, It's caught up to the price of the BHS/Bitex. I wish they'd make it out of steel, even if it takes a bit of a weight penalty, but steel is harder to cut, and would probably be a bit more expensive.

    Anyway, I have some good size Ebates and Active Junky checks coming next month. I think I see a new pair of Bitex hubs in my future.

    All that being said, I still think the koozers make a fine hub for lighter weight riders. Maybe Ill grab a fresh freehub and put them on my wife's bike.

  48. #648
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    I am torn between a hope or a BHS hub to replace my koozer hub. I did about 1000 kms on mine and decided to call it quits; the hubs are simply not up to "hard" riding. It got better after changing the freehub body and the bearings but it flexed so much that it ghost shifted in some gears when sprinting while standing. I thought at first that it was an adjustment issue or a frame problem so after fiddling with the adjustments unsuccessfully I tried to replicate the problem with another wheelset (xt hub) using the same cassette. I could not get it to ghost shift no matter how hard I tried

    I then noticed it started getting draggy so decided to open it up. The blue ring was cracked, the freehub body was starting to deform (again) in the pawl notches and the spacer that sits between the bearings of freehub body and the hub shell had lost its shape and it was allowing the bearings to rub against each other, hence the drag.

    Final verdict: I can only recommend this hub to light riders that do mild to light riding. I am in no way a very heavy or super strong rider, 170 lbs in birthday suit.

  49. #649
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    Hopes look better, and they're louder. BHS/bitex hubs have better engagement. I think they're both comparably reliable. Ive put heavier, parts destroying mashers on them without any problems. A black bitex hub just isnt the flashiest thing.

    Looks are a bit of a silly talking point about hubs, but thats all there really is to say. Bitex hubs are rock solid otherwise, the only real nitpick is how they look.

  50. #650
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Pivot View Post
    Hopes look better, and they're louder. BHS/bitex hubs have better engagement. I think they're both comparably reliable. Ive put heavier, parts destroying mashers on them without any problems. A black bitex hub just isnt the flashiest thing.

    Looks are a bit of a silly talking point about hubs, but thats all there really is to say. Bitex hubs are rock solid otherwise, the only real nitpick is how they look.
    Yes, the bitex hubs seem better on paper for all practical purposes. They are lighter, cheaper, have better engagement and seem to be sufficiently reliable. The only thing keeping me a bit undecided is the bling department, just like you mentioned, they sure are no fun to look at. I think im going to have to ignore my banal desires on this one. I will be ordering a bitex (bhs).

  51. #651
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    Quote Originally Posted by 92gli View Post
    No way. The one ratchet is fixed to the freehub (machined from the same piece or bonded? Bet it's bonded). Therefore, only the inner ratchet engages the drive ring and that single spring is the lifeblood of the whole hub. Given their stellar engineering practices, I'm just going to assume that the silver shoulder on the freehub rides on a plastic bushing behind the red seal on the hub body. I'll be shocked if they would spend an extra buck for a bearing that big.
    shop listings do say there're 5 bearings in the rear hub (the new XM470)

    in other news, ha02n/ha04n appear to have been renamed as XM490, but the design seems to be unchanged: https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm...cket=12#detail

  52. #652
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    I just had Rear hub failure on wednesday 8/3/16.

    check out my post 6 months review thread on bike mojo -

    Ebay KOOZER hub upated review. 6 months later

  53. #653
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    Quote Originally Posted by sethatx111 View Post
    I just had Rear hub failure on wednesday 8/3/16.

    check out my post 6 months review thread on bike mojo -

    Ebay KOOZER hub upated review. 6 months later
    Ouch, thats pretty ugly. My guess is that the blue ring snapped and let the pawls slide out a little bit, putting diagonal pressure on the freehub body, until it finally couldn't take it. Koozer really needs to come up with more durable method pf pawl retention. But even with routine inspection to make sure the blue ring is intact, the freehub body is still too thin and prone to deformation. I found the bore the bearing sits in took on a hexagonal shape from the stresses the pawls placed inward on the freehub body. It looks like youve got the same thing going on.

    If they could redesign the freehub, Find a way to beef up the freehub body, have better method of retaining the pawls, and maybe switch to coil springs rather than leaf, these hubs would be way stronger.

  54. #654
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    I don't believe the blue ring retains the pawls actually. I'm not sure its functional or does anything. I bet we could replace it with steel and see the same failure.

    The pawls are smashing the freehub until it deforms and blows out the pawls. The hub needs bigger pawls and harder alloy on the freehub.

    I really believe it can not be fixed. Not blue rings, not axles or bearings. Its just designed to fail.

  55. #655
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Pivot View Post
    I don't believe the blue ring retains the pawls actually. I'm not sure its functional or does anything. I bet we could replace it with steel and see the same failure.

    The pawls are smashing the freehub until it deforms and blows out the pawls. The hub needs bigger pawls and harder alloy on the freehub.

    I really believe it can not be fixed. Not blue rings, not axles or bearings. Its just designed to fail.
    Blue ring is definitely there to retain the pawls, or at least stop them sliding towards the NDS and contacting the hub body. Whether it would prevent freehub deformation if it was functional is another story (I'm guessing no).

  56. #656
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    I have to agree with cerebroside that the blue ring is certainly there to keep the pawls in place. However when fully seated, the pawls can only realistically slide out about 1/16 inch or so before they contact the hub shell. But a 1/16 of an inch is probably a 20-25% of the overall width of the pawl, which is considerable. And once it starts sliding out, it could allow the pawls to go crooked, locking up the hub, or resulting in grenading.

    But I agree with One Pivot that the root issue is that the freehub body is simply not strong enough, by way of either metallurgy or dimensionally.

  57. #657
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    anyone tried adding up springs on koozer hubs?

    happened to me once, i was looking for the other spring, after few minutes found out that the springs merged into one - creating a much thicker and crunchier spring, i pulled em out and install back originally

    not sure what will happen if i install 2 ply of springs on each pawl

  58. #658
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forcemajeure View Post
    anyone tried adding up springs on koozer hubs?

    happened to me once, i was looking for the other spring, after few minutes found out that the springs merged into one - creating a much thicker and crunchier spring, i pulled em out and install back originally

    not sure what will happen if i install 2 ply of springs on each pawl
    You'll get much more drag which is undesirable. Only reason to do this is if you're having issues with the springs getting warped or something. I've been running my rear for over two years now and it's still going strong. I know others have had issues but I ride my bike hard and I've had my cassette blow up while my hub still stays strong. I'm running the 142x12 version that was one of the first versions. Not sure if things have changed in quality since then. I did proactively change out the bearings about a year ago.

  59. #659
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    my koozer is the 2015 version, light colored free hub body, not the black one

    i also changed the bearings like twice, first with hch china bearings, not so good, then settled with ntn japan made bearings, now m planning to use my koozer for Single speed setup
    not sure if koozer can take the challenge on uphil 32 x 14

  60. #660
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    torque at the cranks is divided by the gear ratio, not multiplied
    14/32 would far likelier destroy your pawls and ratchet than 32/14

  61. #661
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    Yes, on paper that's correct. But in practicality a SS rider will mash hard while a low geared bike will spin. If tire traction is the limiting factor for both, applied torque is roughly the same, but mashing will stress the components much more.

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  62. #662
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    SS puts less torque on the hub because people end up pushing them instead of riding them

  63. #663
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    Has anyone tried the ratchet style hub they have out (koozer). It looks like the axle is different on that one and of course the free hub design is different. Iam looking at buying a set but thought I would see if these were any better than the others they sell.

  64. #664
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    i'm still waiting for a video about the new koozer ratchet hubs,

    sold here for $USD 126

  65. #665
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    so far i'm still testing out my SS setup 32x15 this time, i can climb cat 4 and cat 3 climbs, will check the hubs first
    Last edited by Forcemajeure; 09-12-2016 at 06:12 AM.

  66. #666
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forcemajeure View Post
    so fat i'm still testing out my SS setup 32x15 this time, i can climb cat 4 and cat 3 climbs, will check the hubs first
    What is a "cat 4 climb"? What does that mean?
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  67. #667
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    Bitex hubs are cheaper, have twice the engagement and have been proven reliable for many years. I really wouldn't bother. At best it's reliable, and still trails behind bitex in engagement. The gamble with their other hubs was worth taking for 72poe... That didn't pan out so well though.

  68. #668
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    cheaper in the US, maybe, but that's distributors/resellers skewing the actual prices
    In China, the new Koozers are 500 RMB and the Bitex are 800
    and some of those sellers on Taobao do ship overseas, cheaply

    the ratchet design also has one advantage over the pawls (torque capacity), which might be relevant for those of us who can break pawls with a push of their foot

  69. #669
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    i tried the piggy back spring method ( double spring ) indeed hub sound is much louder but my setup is on a single speed, not sure if this one will work with RD and cogs

    hubs too tight and it will still spin freely but really different this time,

    will try to do experiment by removing 2 pawls, will check if i'll get a different sound

  70. #670
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    If your hub lacks spring tension on the pawls, you'll crack or chip the pawls or ring and you'll feel slipping and grabbing. Its a similar failure to overgreasing or using very thick grease, but same result. I cant think of a hub that lacked spring tension off the top of my head.

  71. #671
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    it does not lack spring tension, i just wanna play or do experiment on the koozer hubs,

    - anyone with experience on the new ratchet koozer hubs?

  72. #672
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    chinese review for what it's worth, FM: ??????????????ECC S50-DT400????_????_????
    somewhat comprehensible with google translate/chrome's help

    in case you feel that the asking price on ebay is a little too high to just take the plunge and see for yourself what these star ratchet hubs are all about...
    I inquired with the manufacturer (ECC) @ alibaba and that's what they said:
    j-bend hub set is $60, with MOQ of 10
    straight-pull 28h version is $68
    all end caps included I think
    additional freehubs are $17 apiece
    shipping to the US if $70 for the whole package

    so, if you can convince 9 other people to jump in this boat with you...

    and the icing on the cake is this line from their sales person:
    > If you can start the 10 pairs of E-801 hub sets with us, then my boss will send you 1 pair of E-601 hubs free as a gift for all your help!

    e601 is the ha02n/ha04n hubs

    killer deal, guys
    Last edited by bruto; 09-21-2016 at 04:58 AM.

  73. #673
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    Quote Originally Posted by bruto View Post
    in case you feel that the asking price on ebay is a little too high to just take the plunge and see for yourself what these star ratchet hubs are all about...
    I inquired with the manufacturer (ECC) @ alibaba and that's what they said:
    j-bend hub set is $60, with MOQ of 10
    straight-pull 28h version is $68
    all end caps included I think
    additional freehubs are $17 apiece
    shipping to the US if $70 for the whole package

    so, if you can convince 9 other people to jump in this boat with you...

    and the icing on the cake is this line from their sales person:
    > If you can start the 10 pairs of E-801 hub sets with us, then my boss will send you 1 pair of E-601 hubs free as a gift for all your help!

    e601 is the ha02n/ha04n hubs

    killer deal, guys
    Iam in, Any other takers? Ill put up the cash if anyone else wants some.

  74. #674
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    they can also make you tools for removing/replacing the fixed (threaded) ratchet should anything happen to it
    although I have no idea how it can be unthreaded considering the shape of ratchet teeth but they said it's possible nonetheless

  75. #675
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    Hi, just a general warning about the standard 6 pawl 72poe koozer hub. Just had a one fail at me, the ratchet ring (pressed into the hub body) started slipping, making the hub totally worthless.
    I would had accepted this as an anomaly from an otherwise great hub, pawls, ratchet teeth and springs look ok. But the thing is that a riding buddy had the exact same problem 6 months ago. Ring started slipping deep into the woods. No way to repair.
    We are riding quite gnarly terrain, lots of torque while climbing, 1x10, 32x36 on 27,5.
    I would had considered a warranty replacement and put my bet on the new ratchet drive version. But after repeated attempts to reach Revmega by mail and through Ebay with not one single answer I am now gving up and calling this hub and distributor a unicorn - It's just a fantasy. If you do hard AM riding it will eventually break and the day it does you will probably not get a warranty replacement.
    If revmegas attitude changes I might drop an update here.

  76. #676
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    fk revmega, buy directly from ECC
    with spare parts and necessary tools

  77. #677
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    @bruto Care to share a link to ECC other than Alibaba?

  78. #678
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    not sure there is one
    only seen them sold on aliababa and taobao (for more and no spare ratchets/tools offered)

  79. #679
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    I too have moved on from my koozers, but I will say that revmega was always quite helpful and quick to send me repair parts. Perhaps he's on vacation or chinese holiday? Its probably a small enough organization where only the one guy is handling the ecommerce side of things.

    Anyway, give it a couple of days and see if he responds, and if not, try once more before throwing up too much fuss. Hopefully he'll be able to help you out.

  80. #680
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    Note also that the hub is listed as a road/XC hub. But yeah we all know that any type of abuse at all implodes the hub.
    '15 Niner Jet 9 Carbon
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  81. #681
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    @GuitsBoy
    I sent my first question about the hub failure on sep 18. That's 3 weeks. Then 2 more since then through eBay and regular email. Is that too few or too many too soon? Trying to be transparent here, not throwing fuss, just being disappointed in a normal kind of human way.

  82. #682
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    Quote Originally Posted by LasseB View Post
    @GuitsBoy
    I sent my first question about the hub failure on sep 18. That's 3 weeks. Then 2 more since then through eBay and regular email. Is that too few or too many too soon? Trying to be transparent here, not throwing fuss, just being disappointed in a normal kind of human way.
    Hmm, I really cant fault you on that. Sounds like you handled things well on your end. Sorry to hear your experience with revmega is a lot worse than my dealings with him have been. I hope you get some kind of resolution.

  83. #683
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    Quote Originally Posted by GuitsBoy View Post
    Hmm, I really cant fault you on that. Sounds like you handled things well on your end. Sorry to hear your experience with revmega is a lot worse than my dealings with him have been. I hope you get some kind of resolution.
    As the complaints pile up, he stops responding to people. Not surprised. Bet that ebay account becomes "no longer a registered user" soon.

  84. #684
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    October 1 to 7 is chinese holiday

  85. #685
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    Quote Originally Posted by capt.crispy View Post
    Has anyone tried the ratchet style hub they have out (koozer). It looks like the axle is different on that one and of course the free hub design is different. Iam looking at buying a set but thought I would see if these were any better than the others they sell.
    I am using the Koozer 72 POE hub. Would the 28T rachet hub be a big step down in POE?

  86. #686
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    Yes. I'm not seeing the appeal in the new hub. The old one was unreliable, but at least it had 72poe. The new one just looks like it sucks!

  87. #687
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Pivot View Post
    Yes. I'm not seeing the appeal in the new hub. The old one was unreliable, but at least it had 72poe. The new one just looks like it sucks!
    Quote Originally Posted by One Pivot View Post
    Yes. I'm not seeing the appeal in the new hub. The old one was unreliable, but at least it had 72poe. The new one just looks like it sucks!
    Why do you say its unreliable? I have use mine for 18 months. Change the bearing once. I do agree the pawls spring is a little pain in the ass. The tiny springs do get flatten sometimes but I can easily strecth them back. But they are quite easy to service. I did try with grease and the did't work very well. So now i just put some fully synthetic motor oil from my car's leftover and the works well.

  88. #688
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    Koozer hubs, 72 POE @ under $60

    Quote Originally Posted by lightning69 View Post
    ...
    . I did try with grease and the did't work very well. So now i just put some fully synthetic motor oil from my car's leftover and the works well.
    Be careful with this, I've tried using heavy motor oil previously on another brand hub. It is initially very good - but subsequently had the bearing contaminated as a result. I believe the motor oil either reacted with the bearing grease or washed it out. Either way - new bearings to dead bearings in record time.

  89. #689
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    So what's the consensus on this hub? Pass it and go for the BHS 270?

    I'm looking to build up some flow mk3 for a 140mm FS. Sounds like the koozer won't live up to the beating they will receive.


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  90. #690
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    Quote Originally Posted by kikoraa View Post
    So what's the consensus on this hub? Pass it and go for the BHS 270?
    That would be my suggestion. I moved on to BHS hubs myself. Though I sold my koozer based wheelset to a lighter weight buddy, with a fresh freehub, and its been working quite well for him. Its hard for me to completely crap on the koozers when it never actually failed on me, but the stress fractures showed the freehub was well on its way at my weight. I would have had to replace the freehub every few hundred miles to keep it from taking the rest of the hub out with it.

  91. #691
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    The problem with the koozer is lack of stiffness. The hub flexes with a good enough load and that causes all kinds of problems, from busted bearings, freehub body coming in contact with ratchet ring, pawls collapsing and finally total failure.

    My consensus: If you are a light rider (<140 lbs) and do mild riding without any jumps, drops or powering on punchy climbs, go for it. Anything else and it will fail eventually. I went with the bhs hub in the end.

    Cheers

  92. #692
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    I'm 230 on a 140mm full suspension and I huck off anything that looks stupid... probabaly need to go with the bhs then


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  93. #693
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    Quote Originally Posted by abelfonseca View Post
    The problem with the koozer is lack of stiffness. The hub flexes with a good enough load and that causes all kinds of problems, from busted bearings, freehub body coming in contact with ratchet ring, pawls collapsing and finally total failure.

    My consensus: If you are a light rider (<140 lbs) and do mild riding without any jumps, drops or powering on punchy climbs, go for it. Anything else and it will fail eventually. I went with the bhs hub in the end.

    Cheers
    Too bad the Koozer didn't work for you. I am 155lbs and ride moderate trail without jump or big drops and the Koozer is fine so far.

    The main reason I still prefer Koozer hub is the 72 POE which is really nice. You just can't find any hub that offer 72 POE at USD60 only. And at this price I don't expect it to be as good as the CK.

  94. #694
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    Look out for the new Novatecs too: Joy Industrial Co., Ltd. (NOVATEC HUBS 2017)
    the F type freehub with 5 pawls appears to be of the "angry bees" kind

  95. #695
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    What's retail price on those novatec?


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  96. #696
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    no idea, but they're specced on a lot of 2017 bikes, if you google 'd462sb'
    You could find one in the shop and spin the rear wheel to see if I'm wrong

    And then there're the 120POE Fastace and Chosen hubs - cheap enough if you can shop from China
    But the stronger among you could probably strip those pawls and ratchets if they aren't properly greased

    UPD: here's another high POE (84) wheelset option if you're riding a 29er:
    Bike Parts, Bike items in Ritchey store on eBay!
    specs here: https://issuu.com/novatecwheels/docs...tec_wheels_web
    (in short, flowtrail is 21mm internal width, diablo is 23mm)
    Last edited by bruto; 10-20-2016 at 05:21 AM.

  97. #697
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    Saw this in Taobao but not sure it will fit the Koozer hub. This parts is to convert the hub to 120 POE.

    Koozer hubs, 72 POE @ under -tb2bjqwsvxxxxcrxpxxxxxxxxxx_-2856490597.jpgKoozer hubs, 72 POE @ under -tb2glj.sfxxxxcmxxxxxxxxxxxx_-2856490597.jpgKoozer hubs, 72 POE @ under -tb2nrxuap95v1bjy0fbxxawipxa_-2856490597.jpgKoozer hubs, 72 POE @ under -tb2rar2ap55v1bjy0fpxxxhdpxa_-2856490597.jpgKoozer hubs, 72 POE @ under -tb2xa7ktvxxxxxqxxxxxxxxxxxx_-2856490597.jpgKoozer hubs, 72 POE @ under -tb274x1ap55v1bjy1xcxxxqjfxa_-2856490597.jpg

  98. #698
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    link

    Quote Originally Posted by lightning69 View Post
    Saw this in Taobao but not sure it will fit the Koozer hub. This parts is to convert the hub to 120 POE.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    can u send me the link to this taobao.

  99. #699
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    Quote Originally Posted by muths66 View Post
    can u send me the link to this taobao.
    https://world.taobao.com/item/530844...6601.48.05yNoX

  100. #700
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    Does that ring actually have 120 teeth on it? The teeth dont look fine enough to me. Pretty scary if a 5 pawl freehub doesnt engage all 5 pawls at the same time! Maybe its a 60t ring, and the paws have two teeth? Interesting though, if it does indeed fit the koozers. Still, they need a better method of retaining the pawls, the blue plastic ring is destined for failure every time.

  101. #701
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    Just to give a suggestion, why don't replace the plastic ring with a metallic snap ring. They would outlast everything in that hub

  102. #702
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    Quote Originally Posted by GuitsBoy View Post
    Does that ring actually have 120 teeth on it? The teeth dont look fine enough to me. Pretty scary if a 5 pawl freehub doesnt engage all 5 pawls at the same time! Maybe its a 60t ring, and the paws have two teeth? Interesting though, if it does indeed fit the koozers. Still, they need a better method of retaining the pawls, the blue plastic ring is destined for failure every time.
    The ring don't have to be 120t. 3 pawls engage at once, and the other 3 is offset to engage halfway, making the POE 120.

  103. #703
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    Quote Originally Posted by lightning69 View Post
    The ring don't have to be 120t. 3 pawls engage at once, and the other 3 is offset to engage halfway, making the POE 120.
    So then the 5 pawl one must be only 60 POE, since there's no good way to divide 5 by 2 as far as I know.

  104. #704
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    pawl

    Quote Originally Posted by lightning69 View Post
    The ring don't have to be 120t. 3 pawls engage at once, and the other 3 is offset to engage halfway, making the POE 120.
    Is there anyways to to offset the other 3 pawls to engage halfway?

  105. #705
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    I don't know exactly how it works but here is an example...Koozer hubs, 72 POE @ under -nvt3.jpgKoozer hubs, 72 POE @ under -nvt4.jpg

  106. #706
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    This picture gives a clear view of how it works.Koozer hubs, 72 POE @ under -novatec_d542sb-3.jpg

  107. #707
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    pawl

    Quote Originally Posted by lightning69 View Post
    This picture gives a clear view of how it works.Click image for larger version. 

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    So if i file 4 pawls shorter by 1-2mm possible? to get more engagement.

  108. #708
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    Quote Originally Posted by muths66 View Post
    So if i file 4 pawls shorter by 1-2mm possible? to get more engagement.
    Technically yes, but can you ensure the pawls will engage properly?

  109. #709
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    Koozer hubs, 72 POE @ under -novatec_d542sb-4.jpg

    Assuming their are 60 teeth on the ring and if all the pawls engage together, then it would be a 60 POE with separation of 6 deg.

    Then when 3 pawls are set to engage first (yellow) and the other 3 pawls offset (green) in-between the 6 deg, then it effectively reduce the separation to 3 deg in between each engagement. So now the POE is 120.

  110. #710
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    Quote Originally Posted by lightning69 View Post
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Assuming their are 60 teeth on the ring and if all the pawls engage together, then it would be a 60 POE with separation of 6 deg.

    Then when 3 pawls are set to engage first (yellow) and the other 3 pawls offset (green) in-between the 6 deg, then it effectively reduce the separation to 3 deg in between each engagement. So now the POE is 120.
    anyway how to take out koozer engagement teeth ring. ligthing69 the pictures u show me is what hub?

  111. #711
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    The picture is from Novatec D542 hub

  112. #712
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    Koozer rear hub - installed in late August on Mtn bike after upgrading bearings first. 1,500 road miles since then. Two months ago hub came apart and dropped one pawl into shell - no damage to hub fortunately. Just replaced hub yesterday with DT Swiss 240, and found that Koozer bearings are shot. No more cheap bike parts! Never going back...

  113. #713
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    There's a lot of good, cheap bike parts. Koozer hubs are not one of them.

  114. #714
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aglo View Post
    Just to give a suggestion, why don't replace the plastic ring with a metallic snap ring. They would outlast everything in that hub
    I attempted to do this but finding the proper sized shim that was the right ID and OD plus thickness to be able to pop under the little lip was next to impossible.

  115. #715
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    not sure if i shared this one before


    koozer 6 pawls sound check indoors
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0J3GReZDRN8




    koozer 6 pawls versus circus monkey hdw3 3 pawls, sound check outdoor
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YyhfjW7VHhA

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    koozer 6 pawls versus circus monkey hdw3 3 pawls, sound check outdoor
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YyhfjW7VHhA


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    Broken Koozer axle

    Thought I would share my Koozer experience. Got a 2015 hub that I have given moderate use over the last 1 to 2 yrs. XC type stuff on a 29er in QR format. Riding the other day the freehub stopped free wheeling and locked up. Rode it home with continuous peddling to find that the axle had snapped where the hub shell meets the freehub.
    Koozer hubs, 72 POE @ under -img_0646.jpg
    Decided to check out another wheel I had built with a 2016 Koozer. Couldn't get the free hub off by hand. Had to jerry rig a slap hammer with a crescent whacking a partially installed outer few sprockets of the cassette. Once off I found the free hub had been deformed by the pawls indenting the body affecting bearing alignment. This hub had less than 20 hrs use also in QR format. i agree with earlier posts that the axle is flexy and eventually breaks. May not be such a problem if used with a thru axle. For what it's worth I don't think high POE is any practical advantage. I don't notice any real difference between the 72 POE Koozer and my 18 DT swiss (except my DT swiss still works).
    Koozer hubs, 72 POE @ under -img_0648.jpg
    Last edited by Goliath2; 01-31-2017 at 04:36 AM. Reason: Pictures added

  118. #718
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Pivot View Post
    Bitex hubs are cheaper, have twice the engagement and have been proven reliable for many years. I really wouldn't bother. At best it's reliable, and still trails behind bitex in engagement. The gamble with their other hubs was worth taking for 72poe... That didn't pan out so well though.
    I wouldn't say it's any better then any other hub. Main problems for me are aluminium axle and freehub.
    I snapped the aluminium axle of my Bitex MTR12. Bitex sent me a new one but I use a steel one from Novatec 882 hub. Less flex.
    And freehub shows some deformations near paws (after 1 year of heavy use).

    Currently I'm shopping for XM470 and all google searches lead to this topic. So far I was not able to find any real reviews of this hub.

    In few days after the Chinese new year ends I'll buy it.

  119. #719
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    That one's axle isn't steel either
    And the bearings don't look like 17mm ID: https://wholesaler.alibaba.com/produ...430263491.html
    If they're 15mm ID, then the axle is pretty thin-walled
    You can ask the merchant you're planing to buy them from to make sure, though

    I have a Novatec XDH42 here, taken from a Demon wheel I guess and it has 17mm OD axle and a nicer construction in general than 882/772/etc

    84POE, too
    You can try finding yourself one of these (D642SB, XD602SB are the regular, non-DH, sized models) or just buy a whole wheelset (Novatec Diablo and Flowtrail wheels with these hubs are on sale at Bikewagon currently)

  120. #720
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    Quote Originally Posted by bruto View Post
    That one's axle isn't steel either
    I know. I was hope that it will be compatible with Novatec steel axle. But now after looking your link from alibaba I don't think so.

    Quote Originally Posted by bruto View Post
    And the bearings don't look like 17mm ID: https://wholesaler.alibaba.com/produ...430263491.html
    If they're 15mm ID, then the axle is pretty thin-walled
    You can ask the merchant you're planing to buy them from to make sure, though

    The bearings are 6902, 15mm ID. With the steel axle is seems to be ok.


    Quote Originally Posted by bruto View Post

    I have a Novatec XDH42 here, taken from a Demon wheel I guess and it has 17mm OD axle and a nicer construction in general than 882/772/etc

    84POE, too
    You can try finding yourself one of these (D642SB, XD602SB are the regular, non-DH, sized models) or just buy a whole wheelset (Novatec Diablo and Flowtrail wheels with these hubs are on sale at Bikewagon currently)

    I don't see that Novatec hubs available for a good price. It's >$200 for set. Bitex/Koozer is ~$100 or less. Also Novatec doesn't provide any warranty if hubs are bought only from places like aliexpress/ebay. Probably in the US it's different but in the EU it's like that. I have good experience with Bitex warranty (better then Hope) and hope with Koozer will too.

  121. #721
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    you won't need warranty of your axle never breaks

    and take a look at those Bikewagon's wheels (if 29er is your size)
    a little over $300 shipped to EU for a wheelset - with these fancy hubs (xd601/602)

  122. #722
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    Quote Originally Posted by bruto View Post
    you won't need warranty of your axle never breaks

    and take a look at those Bikewagon's wheels (if 29er is your size)
    a little over $300 shipped to EU for a wheelset - with these fancy hubs (xd601/602)
    The main reason I need a hub is that I have a pair of carbon rims laying around and I just want to built a spare set.

    I don't know how did you find the link to the hub on alibaba.com. I never go any further then aliexpress.com for Chinese stuff.

    So I went even deeper and found a $500 Chris King hub replica:

    https://cnecc.en.alibaba.com/product...e_hub_mtb.html

    It seems that's not available anywhere else. Definitely will try to get this one.

  123. #723
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    if you ask for just 1 pair, it will cost quite a bit more than $100
    prices they gave me (MOQ of 10 pairs) were $60 for E801 (aka Koozer XM470) and $112 for this "ring drive" thingie
    Sure, you can get all spares/consumables with the hub for not a whole lot of extra money if you shop directly from ECC @ alibaba, but maybe there's a good reason they came up with E801/E803 models after this one (besides being able to produce them at a much lower cost)
    maybe it's not that reliable?

    If you want something exotic, try finding a way to shop at taobao - there're quite a few options there (Hubsmith, Ridea, Trigon, Chosen's silent hubs)
    Not to mention sh!t like this: https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm...u=t2dmg8j26111 (was in stock before)

  124. #724
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    Looks to be either or. I'm thinking if you had both the axles would likly swap???
    KOOZER 72HD HA02N/HA04N Hubs CNC Aluminum 2+4 Bearing 32H Through Axle/QR Hub | eBay
    . Later, mike
    . www.geekonabike.webs.com

  125. #725
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    I'm considering the 28t ratchet version for a new wheelset. Opinions?

    The thing is, I can get inexpensive sub 300gr road hubsets from a bunch of sellers, last long time. But for some reason adding a 6 bolt disc capability bumps that up to 500gr+. A joytech set is like 800 grams, totally ridiculous.


  126. #726
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    there're light hubsets for 6-bolt rotors too
    novatec 411/412 & 771/772, Fastace DA16, etc., some Powerways
    you can find their catalogs and check out weights if you want to
    but, in general, CL flange is lighter than 6-bolt and straight pull ones are lighter than j-bend simply due to the amount of material required

  127. #727
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    Just wondering if any one has tried out the new star ratchet system XM470? Looking at buying just curious about the feel and durability

  128. #728
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    That's the same question I asked two posts up.

  129. #729
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    Dont think anyone has due to the quality issues that were seeing with the last version of the XM490 and the fact that this one literally came out in October/November timeframe.

  130. #730
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    I've emailed the company that produced the hubs and they said that they are currently making the boost hubs. But it will take about 2 months to be released.
    Some good news there.

  131. #731
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    Anyone having any updates on the 2017 hubs? Have they improved? Im considerig to buy them because i like the sound but im pretty tight on a budget. Currently im running an x9 hub with Mavic ex721 rim. I like to go a little bit rough because im a 100 kg rider and i like to go down stairs, little jumps(not bigger than 1,5 m) and some xc trails. So would the hub be able to hold on that style of riding? Sorry for my bad english :/
    Last edited by Sucic; 04-08-2017 at 01:32 AM. Reason: Adding another sentence

  132. #732
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    everyone's still considering
    people are willing to be adventurous with $400 Chinese frames, but not with $100 hubs, apparently

  133. #733
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    After destroying my rear hub, I'm in the look for a new one.
    Also I don't want to spent 300$ on a new one, so I came check if they have improved, but I'm not wasting 100$ in something that has this kind of record.
    And yes, I ride a pair of Chinese hoops 😅.
    But you can choose a Chinese vendor with a good track record, but this is not the case on this hubs.
    So I'm just ogling a DT Swiss 350 for 130€.

  134. #734
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    ruined how?
    chances are, novatec 882 with a steel axle would carry your heavier-than-average ass off small drops just fine as well

  135. #735
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    A bunch of us already took the risk and ended up with broken hubs. This is a junk brand. A SLX hub is $35 and drastically higher quality. Bitex is about the same price and higher quality. A hub isn't too cheap after you factor in new axles and bearings to keep it from exploding.

  136. #736
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    One Pivot is right, and I did look at Shimano hubs. But if I factor in the price of new spokes, the price come close to more expensive hubs, with similar flanges to my old hub.

    So, the moral is, don't waste your money in this crap hubs. Just buy something worth your money.

  137. #737
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    just want to point out that this is a different model with an entirely different engagement mechanism
    it can't break in the same way the 6-pawl koozers broke

    you don't know what modes of failure it might have, because none of you rode the new hubs please save your negativity until someone actually buys one, rides one and it breaks due to a manufacturing/design defect

  138. #738
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    You are talking about the xm470?

  139. #739
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sucic View Post
    You are talking about the xm470?
    Yeah he is talking about the XM470 which has the ratchet system like a DT Swiss 350 vs. the spring and pawl system of the XM490. While I somewhat agree with Bruto, the hub is about 2/3rd the cost of a new BITEX/BHS rear hub with a spring and pawl system, 54POE and has been shown to be super reliable (one guy compared it to a chevy sbc 350 engine which is pretty true, no frills just dead reliable and serviceable). At that rate you would be better off spending the money on the slightly higher costing hub.

    While this isnt really comparing apples to apples with both of RevMega's (Koozers) hubs, it is probably safe to say that it will not be all that great. Good thing about these hubs though is they use pretty standard flange dimensions so, like the XM490, they have similar dimensions as HOPE, Bitex, BHS, DT Swiss to the point where if it detonated within a short period of time you could fairly easily replace with one of the above mentioned without having to purchase new spokes.

  140. #740
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    I will go with the xm470 then

  141. #741
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    I think most of us took the risk due to 72poe. Knock that down to 24 poe, and what's the point? We already know the brand makes low quality part, remove the allure of high Poe and there's not much left.

    Ring drive doesn't fix quality issues with axels and bearings.

  142. #742
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Pivot View Post
    I think most of us took the risk due to 72poe. Knock that down to 24 poe, and what's the point? We already know the brand makes low quality part, remove the allure of high Poe and there's not much left.

    Ring drive doesn't fix quality issues with axels and bearings.
    Yeah, but obviously the rachet sistem is better then the 6 pawls. When the time comes, replace the bearings and smash it again. I red that the axle flex has sth to do with the low quality bearings, so replace them and you fixed your problem. I just wanna a loud and reliable hub thats under 100$

  143. #743
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    Quote Originally Posted by bruto View Post
    just want to point out that this is a different model with an entirely different engagement mechanism
    it can't break in the same way the 6-pawl koozers broke

    you don't know what modes of failure it might have, because none of you rode the new hubs please save your negativity until someone actually buys one, rides one and it breaks due to a manufacturing/design defect
    You are right, and I will concede that the XM470 design seems to be more durable than the XM490.
    But they are made from the same company that have a crap track record in axle flex, and if the axle flex in the XM470 it will explode all the same, a crap track record in bearings, and a crap track record in details like plastic parts that brake and axles that snap.

    I would much rather spent 130€ in a Dt 350 with 18t ratchet, or 160€ in a Dt 350 with 36t ratchet or 160€ in Dt 240s with 18t ratchet, instead of spend 75€ plus new bearings in two months and probably something more in this new hub.

    Am I being negative? Yes I am.

  144. #744
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    axle flex likely has sth to do with thickness of said axle
    new(ish) novatecs (d542sb/xd602 - different models, actually, but the same engagement mechanism) have 17mm rear axle, by the way
    and lots of POE
    and a better than average freehub seal

    can be had on ebay for $118

  145. #745
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    track record you're speaking of is 1 faulty hub model out of 1
    ECC E601 AKA Koozer XM470 was their first product to market
    it's a new manufacturer, they now make 4 models so it's bound to improve

    if you botched something on first attempt, you'd likely have objections to someone writing you off completely on that account

  146. #746
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    Quote Originally Posted by bruto View Post
    axle flex likely has sth to do with thickness of said axle
    new(ish) novatecs (d542sb/xd602 - different models, actually, but the same engagement mechanism) have 17mm rear axle, by the way
    and lots of POE
    and a better than average freehub seal

    can be had on ebay for $118
    And the BHS MTB270 with the Anti-bite system costs $124 shipped or $109 with the standard non anti-bite freehub in a couple different colors and either 28 or 32 hole.

    Believe me I purchased one of the XM490 with the allure of cheap high POE but then as I did my own QC on the hub after getting it (see a couple pages back) you can just tell things are not up to snuff with how they do their work/machining. If you want to take the plunge on the ratchet drive system then go for it and give us some feedback. We will keep our fingers crossed for you that it works out well.

    At this point I have not invested in the KOOZER XM490 that I bought and I will more than likely never lace it up (unless I need for a super easy riding bike like my commuter) or unless someone offers me money for it. They go for $70 new from ebay, I would take half that plus shipping and call it a win/win.

  147. #747
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    I would have bought them when they first came out if I didn't already have 3 wheelsets

  148. #748
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    Fck it now. I really wanted to buy them cuz i saw a lot of positive comments, and now im a little sceptic. I would give 130$ max, and now im so confused that i don't know what to buy. Like i said im searching for a loud and reliable hub. It seems that there is nothing like that in that price range :/

  149. #749
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    loudness is a function of springs
    you can replace stock ones with stronger versions if you really want to be heard from miles away
    and use less grease

  150. #750
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    I wonder if the whole durability issues are not rider weight related. At < 170 lbs, and just 2 years of hard use , I can say the 72 point Koozer is the nicest hub I ever rode.
    I broke several other hubs in the past always on the cassette / pawl interface.
    Keeping fingers crossed. Would love to try the new ratched hub.

  151. #751
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    Would really like to see a better view of the guts of the ratchet hub. what I can see doesn't make sense. Don't see any springs.

  152. #752
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  153. #753
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    Need to see the inner ratchet removed to verify how it engages the hub body. But what I can see is totally craptastic. This actually looks a lot worse than their interpretation of a high engagement pawl hub.

  154. #754
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    it has 3 or 6 tabs (saw the photos, forgot) that go into slots in the hub body
    basically, the same as DT - cog sliding back and forth in a slot, but fewer teeth

  155. #755
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    So noone had a failure with the xm470 yet?

  156. #756
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sucic View Post
    So noone had a failure with the xm470 yet?
    Dont think it is necessarily that, it is that no one on here has purchased one.

  157. #757
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    Everyone are saying that RevMega is a great man, he responds on messages quickly, he ships things immediately and so on. I paid for the hub on April 8th and it is still not shipped. I also sent him a message that was about changing my hub color before he ships the hub, and he still did not respond...

  158. #758
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    All we can do is give you our experiences with the guy. We can guarantee youll have the same luck. Maybe he's on vacation? Sick for a few days? Family issue? Building a bomb shelter amid mounting tensions with china with regards to the korean peninsula?

  159. #759
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sucic View Post
    Everyone are saying that RevMega is a great man, he responds on messages quickly, he ships things immediately and so on. I paid for the hub on April 8th and it is still not shipped. I also sent him a message that was about changing my hub color before he ships the hub, and he still did not respond...
    Try his e-mail address:

    [email protected]

  160. #760
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    We the people ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Poopshute View Post
    Try his e-mail address:

    [email protected]
    Thanks for the effort, he answered. He apologized for the delayed shipping

  161. #761
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    Quick update on the hub if someone is interested. I rode it for like 400km and trashed it pretty hard. Im a 100 kg rider and i rode some trails and steps in the city(approx. 25-30 steps high/big idk how to say it i hope you understand). I opened the hub when it came to degrease it, and i opened it now and it is still perfectly fine, spins freely, it has no play and the rachet looks also good.

  162. #762
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    Cool, which hub was it? the xm470?

  163. #763
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    Quote Originally Posted by GuitsBoy View Post
    Cool, which hub was it? the xm470?
    Yes

  164. #764
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    I have been using Koozer hub for mire than 2 years now and am very happy with it. I just replace all the pawls and springs last week for a couple of bucks and they are like brand new.

    I am 70kg heavy and not exactly an aggressive rider. I do regular service every couple of months by opening up the hub and clean the pawls and springs and then grease them with my fully synthetic engine oil leftover from my car service. I have replaced the bearings once. So far besides these maintenance I done on the hub, there is really not much problem at all. They are not the best hubs but for the price, I am really happy with it.

  165. #765
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    I think the problem surfaced when changes were made for the Model Year (MY) 2016 version of the 6pawl design. Seems like that was when people started having lots of issues with them. Prior to that it seemed to be doing perfectly fine, little tweaks here and there and cost cutting can change a lot.

  166. #766
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    I am thinking of replacing my KOOZER HA02N/HA04N with the XM490 if my current one fail one day. The reason I would go back to Koozer is that price and its easy to find replacement parts. The bearings are standard bearing which I can easily replace with SKF bearings, and I still got 2 sets of new palws and spring which I bought online from Taobao.com

    Is there any other reliable brand that offer 72 POE of better. I have been trying to find a similar price hub that offers 72 poe but looks like there are not many.

  167. #767
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    chosen and fastace make 120 POE hubs but that makes them grease/contaminant sensitive
    Chosen even suplies a small tube of their own grease with those (chain-l works just as well)

  168. #768
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    Quote Originally Posted by bruto View Post
    chosen and fastace make 120 POE hubs but that makes them grease/contaminant sensitive
    Chosen even suplies a small tube of their own grease with those (chain-l works just as well)
    They make them mostly of QR. I can't seem to find those with 12x142mm tru-axle

  169. #769
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    fastaces are convertible (da20, da07)

  170. #770
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sucic View Post
    Quick update on the hub if someone is interested. I rode it for like 400km and trashed it pretty hard. Im a 100 kg rider and i rode some trails and steps in the city(approx. 25-30 steps high/big idk how to say it i hope you understand). I opened the hub when it came to degrease it, and i opened it now and it is still perfectly fine, spins freely, it has no play and the rachet looks also good.
    Could you clarify?

    Sentence #2 "I rode it for like 400 km and trashed it pretty hard."

    Sentence #4 "I opened it now and it still looks perfectly fine"

    Which is it? One sentence leads me to believe you broke it, the other says it's fine.
    Shiftin' jumps and huckin' gears

  171. #771
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    I think he means THRASHED it pretty hard.. meaning he put it through its paces and it came out ok..
    I think he means that he pulled the freehub body off and the grease and everything looks to be in good shape.
    Have a feeling that english isn't his first language.

  172. #772
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    I apologize if I'm incorrect, but English may not be his native language.

    I think he means that he beat on it pretty hard for 400 km, but it still looks good. Not that its trashed.

    Quote Originally Posted by gregnash View Post
    I think he means THRASHED it pretty hard.. meaning he put it through its paces and it came out ok..
    I think he means that he pulled the freehub body off and the grease and everything looks to be in good shape.
    Have a feeling that english isn't his first language.
    UGGGH. You beat me by 15 seconds!!!

  173. #773
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    I'm not judging for ESL, I thought that too. Your opinion was what I was leaning toward, but wanted to make sure I had it right.
    I ask because I'm considering building new plus wheels and trying to decide if the extra $75 is justified for Bitex hubs ($175/pr at BHS) over the Koozer hubs ($100/pr on eBay).

    The other option is to de-lace my Hadleys currently in service and re-lace them to i40 rims, and only have one set of wheels.
    Shiftin' jumps and huckin' gears

  174. #774
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    Quote Originally Posted by bruto View Post
    fastaces are convertible (da20, da07)
    Thanks for the info.

    I have check out the Fastace DA20. The price is twice of Koozer. Are they a lot better? Anyone here try it out before?

  175. #775
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    they go for 700 RMB ($100) a pair in China
    https://s.taobao.com/search?_tb_toke...%E9%BC%93&spm=
    you can look for middlemen services that can help you shop there, they have to exist

    and I have a pair of DA07 (same internals as DA20 I think, just different hub shell)
    they're fine and buzzy and the front hub end caps do not have any seals but that hasn't been a problem yet they do spin great because of that!
    the rear hub has all the required seals, they're dual-lip rather than o-rings

  176. #776
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    KT (also known as Quanda/Quando, O-lite/Q-lai, Nukeproof) got the high POE bug too, apparently: https://issuu.com/artfile/docs/2018k...3f8149d4485769
    Small tooth sping-loaded pawls look quite similar to Fastace
    These're inexpensive in China as well

  177. #777
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    Is anyone interested in buying one these? I have a slightly used 12x142 rear disc hub that came off a very short term wheel that was disassembled. One of the inner sealed bearing covers came loose on this hub, but could easily be replaced. Have it available now - $40, still like new. PM me if interested.
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  178. #778
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    I'm about to swap my QR frame for one with a 12x142; the older (2015) Koozer QR rear has held up pretty good, is it worth swapping it with the 12x142 model, or does the 12x142 still have issues?

    Edit: I just noticed that he is stating in his adds that the new hubs are an updated version made in Taiwan, any chance the quality has been improved since the previous unreliable batch?
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  179. #779
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    who says they're made in Taiwan?
    these koozers are made by ECC: https://cnecc.en.alibaba.com/company_profile.html

  180. #780
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    Quote Originally Posted by FreshWaterLake View Post
    I have added 2 photos of the additional aluminium 6061 shaft reinforcement.
    The shaft length is 125.60mm
    Diameter is OD 12mm, ID 8mm
    Let's see how well it hold up when the wheel is finally completed.




    I am happy to report after 1 year of weekly riding, everything still hold up well with the reinforced axle. The reason for a Koozer hub failure was the weak aluminium axle. This was the root cause. Older model had threaded end cap to keep the main axle from flexing too much. Those model last longer too.

    But, Koozer hub simply need design a stronger axle.
    Hope had already learnt that lesson in the original Hope Pro II episode.
    2009 Turner 5-Spot DW (B26 conversion)
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  181. #781
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    Quote Originally Posted by bruto View Post
    who says they're made in Taiwan?
    these koozers are made by ECC: https://cnecc.en.alibaba.com/company_profile.html
    Directly from Revmega (now rbn.hk):
    KOOZER XM490 HA02N/04N 6 Pawls 72HD Bicycle Hub Disc Bearing 32H Front&Rear MTB | eBay

    Given the inconsistencies and tendency for Chinese stuff to be directly copied and branded, I would not buy them from anyone else.
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  182. #782
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    I doubt anyone is knocking off koozers. And if they are, it might be worth trying. Maybe it would last longer!

  183. #783
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    please ask him about ECC
    the statement about them being manufactured in TW is either BS or a surprise

  184. #784
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Pivot View Post
    I doubt anyone is knocking off koozers. And if they are, it might be worth trying. Maybe it would last longer!
    You'd be surprised then, these Chinese companies rip each other off probably more than they rip of the bigger brands. Some of the most well know examples are Ultrafire flashlights and the SJCAM action cameras (similar to GoPro); it is sometimes difficult to tell the "real" ones from the fake ones... and it matters.
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  185. #785
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    In this case, the real one fails in as little as a few rides, so a knock off might be the way to go. The real ultrafire batteries were awesome! I still have a few. I can see why those were so heavily knocked off, but I assure you this isn't the case with koozers.

    I've only put ~20 more miles on my koozers since noticing the damage. I pulled it apart today, and the grease is black, in 20 dry miles. Something is now grinding apart on the freehub body im guessing.

  186. #786
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    It's a blanket statement, sometimes true (but not as often as you'd think)
    However, Revmega/Reborn (owner of the Koozer brand - see About us | REBORN INDUSTRIAL DEVELOPMENT LIMITED ) is a trading company - they don't make sh!t
    The only names these hubs can be found under are ECC and Koozer and they look exactly alike, save for the labels
    Considering the former has a site with actual mention of manufacturing facilities and the other doesn't, my bet is that Koozer is just a sticker put on someone else's goods by Reborn
    On the other hand, it is also possible that these hubs were originally designed by a Taiwanese manufacturer I don't know about and ECC is merely a subcontractor who can manufacture them at a lower cost, or they licensed the design, but that has yet to be found out

    So, in short, if you can get Revmega to tell you who makes these hubs in Taiwan, I'd be personally grateful
    Of course, I can ask them myself too

  187. #787
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    I must have a US clone of a Koozer then. Mine is functioning as day 1 after 2 years hard use.
    Very interested in input on the 490.

  188. #788
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    Quote Originally Posted by bruto View Post
    It's a blanket statement, sometimes true (but not as often as you'd think)
    However, Revmega/Reborn (owner of the Koozer brand - see About us | REBORN INDUSTRIAL DEVELOPMENT LIMITED ) is a trading company - they don't make sh!t
    The only names these hubs can be found under are ECC and Koozer and they look exactly alike, save for the labels
    Considering the former has a site with actual mention of manufacturing facilities and the other doesn't, my bet is that Koozer is just a sticker put on someone else's goods by Reborn
    On the other hand, it is also possible that these hubs were originally designed by a Taiwanese manufacturer I don't know about and ECC is merely a subcontractor who can manufacture them at a lower cost, or they licensed the design, but that has yet to be found out

    So, in short, if you can get Revmega to tell you who makes these hubs in Taiwan, I'd be personally grateful
    Of course, I can ask them myself too
    Quote Originally Posted by Spoker View Post
    I must have a US clone of a Koozer then. Mine is functioning as day 1 after 2 years hard use.
    Very interested in input on the 490.
    Yeah wondering if he changed mfg. plants or something to help keep costs down (e.g. old plant decided to up the MOQ) and that is the issues that we are seeing with the late 2015/2016 models up until now.

  189. #789
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    Any reports on the 470's functioning and reliability?

  190. #790
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    I been using the 470s only for two weeks. The reason i bought it is because of the use of rachets despite of pawls, and wantet to build a "cheap wheelset". I have the 350 DT´s wiht 36 POE ratchet and they are simply perfect. The Koozer 470´s spin really well, the rear hub have a loud sound but not the kind of cristal sound like other brands, it sounds like a plunk or a jab and if you spin it faster is a very loud bee sound, maybe too loud to most of bikers taste. Also when the freehub is spinning i can feel a little vibration on the frame, but this happend the same with DT Swiss ratchet hubs, i think because of the ratchet springs are little stiff and that helps to the big sound they have.

    On hard peddaling i have no issues, they dont feel as quick as othes (i have Bitex with 56 POE, Hope Pro 4 with 44 POE and the DT 350´s with 36 POE) but i have no complaint with the 28 POE, its the double of any low entry OEM hub, just decent. So far now these hubs seems to be more durable and i like more because i pay less than 100 bucks

  191. #791
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    Quote Originally Posted by gotdurt View Post
    Directly from Revmega (now rbn.hk):
    KOOZER XM490 HA02N/04N 6 Pawls 72HD Bicycle Hub Disc Bearing 32H Front&Rear MTB | eBay

    Given the inconsistencies and tendency for Chinese stuff to be directly copied and branded, I would not buy them from anyone else.
    Anyone here placed a recent order with rbn.hk? I ordered KOOZER XM490 on July 6 and essentially... nothing is happening. The hub is still marked as 'not shipped' so I sent a polite message asking for an update and still... nothing. When should I start to get nervous about this order?

    UPDATE #1: so apparently, the seller does NOT have to provide the tracking number (it's only a common courtesy). I guess I have to wait past the estimated delivery date to bring this to the eBay's attention... Let's hope he ships the hub and this becomes a non-issue after all.

    UPDATE #2: finally, exactly a week after the purchase, the hub was marked as shipped and a tracking number was provided.

    UPDATE #3: the hub is here. Lacing to the rim will have to wait for after the vacation.
    Last edited by Szy_szka; 07-28-2017 at 12:03 PM.

  192. #792
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    Who's the reputable seller of these hubs? I'm looking to purchase a single rear hub to relate a rim.

  193. #793
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    Really? After all that you still want one?

    Revmega is selling them on eBay.

  194. #794
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Pivot View Post
    Really? After all that you still want one?

    Revmega is selling them on eBay.
    Maybe I got the only good set, but mine are still going strong after 2 years. I'm not easy on equipment, either... I've only torn them down for cleaning/lube/inspection once, will probably replace bearings on the next teardown.
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  195. #795
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    For $60, I'll gladly try it out. I built some KOM i29 rims on some old am classic hubs I have but the rear is ss specific. Due to some continuing back issues from an old surgery, I have decided to abandon my beloved rigid ss and make my kona unit into a geared 100mm hardtail. The front wheel will stay but I will rebuild the rear on the koozer hub so I can use a cassette. I hate that I have to scrap $64 worth of spokes but whatever.

  196. #796
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    Quote Originally Posted by kikoraa View Post
    For $60, I'll gladly try it out. I built some KOM i29 rims on some old am classic hubs I have but the rear is ss specific. Due to some continuing back issues from an old surgery, I have decided to abandon my beloved rigid ss and make my kona unit into a geared 100mm hardtail. The front wheel will stay but I will rebuild the rear on the koozer hub so I can use a cassette. I hate that I have to scrap $64 worth of spokes but whatever.
    You would be better served if you went with a BHS MTB 270.
    MTB270 Rear Disc Hub
    At least it will last and it's not that much more money.
    Change begins by doing something different.

  197. #797
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    I have a set of bhs hubs on another bike. Great hubs. But still double the price. Limited budget and I see a lot of people had good experience with these. Some bad. Same with everything else in the world

  198. #798
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    I loved my koozers, though my clydeness forced me to pursue other avenues. But if youre light weight, dont abuse them, and understand the risks, they were an awesome hub for the money, IMO. Sounds like youre well enough informed, and assume the responsibility. Hope they work out well for you.

  199. #799
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    I was so excited to finally be able to try out the hub! Almost finished truing the wheel, making sure to follow the detentioning techniques showed in numerous online video. On the last attempt, SNAP! the spoke broke out of a nipple! I'm so bummed! I'm sure the fact that I was reusing old spokes and nipples did not help. Lesson learned. New spokes nipples ordered, back to lacing, step #1, here we come...
    Last edited by Szy_szka; 08-27-2017 at 11:55 AM.

  200. #800
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    Regarding the 470 hub I see very little reviews , but on the other hand , no negative reviews. There must have been sold quite a lot of them by now and if problematic we should be aware of it by now?

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