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  1. #401
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    Koozer hubs, 72 POE @ under $60

    Yeah already spoke to rev. 5 bucks for the spacer. However it was 18 bucks for the whole free hub with pawls etc. so I just paid the 18. My old one is all chewed up from my cassette anyways. So I though 18 was a pretty good deal shipped. I also noticed some wear on some of the pawls.

  2. #402
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    Quote Originally Posted by Breitness24 View Post
    Yeah already spoke to rev. 5 bucks for the spacer. However it was 18 bucks for the whole free hub with pawls etc. so I just paid the 18. My old one is all chewed up from my cassette anyways. So I though 18 was a pretty good deal shipped. I also noticed some wear on some of the pawls.
    Do you have a link to where you can buy the freehub body?

  3. #403
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    $18 shipped is incredible. With bearings and pawls?!

    I've noticed a few ebay sellers posting the hubs with what look to be ano black freehub body. Same alloy? Possibly lighter?
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  4. #404
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    Koozer hubs, 72 POE @ under $60

    I contacted revmega directly through eBay. He said it was the whole free hub. Whether he understood me clearly is another story. So we will see. He sent me an invoice I paid.

  5. #405
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    I finally got my Koozer hub , it took 5 weeks to arrive. I got the 142mm with extra QR caps. Unfortunately one of the QR caps was missing so I have another long wait till I'm able to use the hub. The hub will be used QR, and as a backup for a 142 wheel on another bike.

    I tried fitting endcaps from a Hope Pro 2 evo hub, but they were too large. The outer diameter of the Koozer 12mm axle is noticably smaller than the Evo axle. The pawls are quite a bit smaller also.

    I wonder the thinner axle is contributing to the Koozer freehub bearing failures. Hope had a problem with 12mm axle flex on their Pro2 hubs and made the Evo axle thicker to fix the problem.

  6. #406
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    It took my hubs 2 days to show up. The build has started with Stans rims and Bikesmith spokes.

  7. #407
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    Quote Originally Posted by abelfonseca View Post
    I would replace the bearing on the pawls right off the bat. The rest I would use them till they failed.
    Hey all,

    After reading through the thread it seems many feel the freewheel bearings are suspect? Have others experienced freewheel skipping when under load? Do bearing upgrades help?

    Thanks!

  8. #408
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    Koozer hubs, 72 POE @ under $60

    Upon further inspection of my free hub I found that the metal on the hub seems to be worn right around the individual pawl. And that's what lead to my failure. I am a big guy so I'm sure I put a lot of torque on the climbs. Here's a macro pic to see.

  9. #409
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    i think that can still be repaired or bring it to a machine shop

  10. #410
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    Ok guys I need some serious help. After swapping out my free hub with my buddies who has the same but hasn't installed yet it still skipped. So I figured my hub was worn and the teeth were rounded. So stupid me I bought a whole new set and an extra rear. I just finished installing it and the damn thing brand new still skips under load. def not as much as my old hub but i can't safely ride. So then I swapped out the free hub with my second rear hub and it still skips and I'm about to lose my mind. If there are 6 pawls how come they all skip and not maybe one skip but the other 5 grab. Please someone chime in I'm dying here.

  11. #411
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    Quote Originally Posted by Breitness24 View Post
    Ok guys I need some serious help. After swapping out my free hub with my buddies who has the same but hasn't installed yet it still skipped. So I figured my hub was worn and the teeth were rounded. So stupid me I bought a whole new set and an extra rear. I just finished installing it and the damn thing brand new still skips under load. def not as much as my old hub but i can't safely ride. So then I swapped out the free hub with my second rear hub and it still skips and I'm about to lose my mind. If there are 6 pawls how come they all skip and not maybe one skip but the other 5 grab. Please someone chime in I'm dying here.
    Breitness24,

    So I have been experiencing some free hub skipping under load as well. For me it seems to occur if I am pedaling and leaning the bike. Such as coming out of a corner. Based on the thread it appears that some folks attribute this to a flexy axle and poor quality bearings.

    If anyone has specific bearings that they have used please respond. I was considering REAL WORLD Cycling ceramic hybrid angular contact bearings but at around $70 I wanted to be sure these remedy the problem.

  12. #412
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    Koozer hubs, 72 POE @ under $60

    My new hubs are from rev and these are supposed to be the new models. The free hub is black. These are the thru axle model and he gave me qr adapters. The new models are supposed to be better with harder materials. My old hub was just a regular qr hub. And I weigh 270 maybe I can swap out my old bearing onto the new hub.

    Update: Matt (rev) responded pretty damn fast like 20 min. He asked me to take pics and vids of my hub and advised he will solve it or refund me. Hopefully they can solve it.

    After reading the thread I check the bearings from my old hub that lasted over a year under my 260 lb frame and the new hub. The bearings are different brands.

  13. #413
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    Koozer hubs, 72 POE @ under $60

    Try SKF bearings as mentioned earlier in thread. Problem seems to be wimpy bearings unable to keep axle centered under load thus unable to keep freehub spinning on proper axis thus creating misalignment of pawl engagement. Not necessarily axle flex but rather axle movement. I think the deformation of the alloy around pawl in above macro pics is a direct result of this. This issue was also common with Stans 3.30 hub. Bearings were toast - replaced with SKF and never again had problem.
    Hope this solves it.

    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  14. #414
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    Koozer hubs, 72 POE @ under $60

    Ok I figured my issue it and it def deals with flex. I had my original koozer since april of '14. I've been swapping the rear wheel from a steel SS and my full squish. Recently I've Ben neglecting the squish for the SS. So I decided to go ss on my squish.

    I'm using a cheap aluminum eBay spacer kit on my SS gear. Since the SS is steel it didn't flex. And whenever I swapped the rim to my squish the 10spd cassette kept it all stiff. But the SS gear and aluminum spacers in the squish alum. Frame was a no go too much flex. I just rode both bikes as normal and no popping.

    So do you guys think if I find steel spacers for the SS kit I could run it on my squish ?

  15. #415
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    Decided to rebuild my much abused, one season old, set of Koozers. Originally purchased Jan 2015. They were still running fine with no problems as of the end of September, ~120 rides on them so well over 1000 km in all weather conditions.

    Freehub internals looked like they saw a bit of water, which isn't surprising considering what I put them through. Bit of corrosion on parts, no grease left. Guess I should have done some mid season maintenance. Cleaned them up and added a bit of grease before the photo below, though I'm going to replace the freehub assembly anyway.

    Blue washer was toast; broken into multiple pieces, can be seen to the left. Little bit of deformation on the freehub body, not sure if this would affect operation. I'm 185 lb before gear and not exactly a masher, I can imagine a heavier rider could destroy this thing pretty rapidly. Haven't experienced any skipping.



    Bearings were mostly fine (i.e. felt smooth, with no notchiness or gritty feeling). Only bad ones were rear NDS hub shell 6902, which was very notchy, and one on the front hub, which wasn't as bad. I guess this could easily account for the wear visible on the freehub. Going to replace the whole lot.

    Mine are QR F/R but same as below apart from the two in the front hub, which were NBK 6902-2RS (i.e. same as the rear):

    Quote Originally Posted by GuitsBoy View Post
    Also, my bearing sizes for the were as follows:

    Front 15x100 Thru Axle
    NBK 6804-2RS
    NBK 6804-2RS

    Rear 12x142 Thru Axle
    NBK 6902-2RS
    NBK 6902-2RS

    6 Pawl Freehub:
    Tekino 15267RS
    Appears to be same size Tekino 15267RS (Unverified due to rubber seal)

  16. #416
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    So, finally got some time to take the wheel apart, but i can`t get the freehub off. Any suggestions? It`s the 12x142 version.Koozer hubs, 72 POE @ under -c239c6c7-6ae9-4bce-a961-d69948a5f863_zpsikjz7sse.jpg

  17. #417
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    Grasp it and should pull straight out. Even with the cassette still on it can pull right out as one unit


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  18. #418
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    It doesn't move at all. Will try and contact Revmega and see what they say. 20 hours use and the freehub stops working... :/

  19. #419
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    Hmm perhaps try putting cassette back on and tap from opposite side to try dislodging.


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  20. #420
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    Quote Originally Posted by Parapax View Post
    It doesn't move at all. Will try and contact Revmega and see what they say. 20 hours use and the freehub stops working... :/
    Has it actually stopped working, or do you mean it just won't pull off easily? As they are two pretty different things.

  21. #421
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    There's nothing holding it on the hub. Just pull. If it's stuck, put the cassette on and pull on the cassette with both hands.

    I bought the new black fhb model. I have pretty low expectations! Built it on a kom i23. We'll see.

  22. #422
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    Quote Originally Posted by funnyjr View Post
    Grasp it and should pull straight out. Even with the cassette still on it can pull right out as one unit


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    This ^ plus I found taking the axle end cap off helps too.

  23. #423
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    Freehub is broken, turns both ways with no engagement. Taken both end caps off, put the cassette back on and tried to pull it off, doesn't want to move at all. Tried to pull it off with water pump pliers, didn't work. What`s next? Taking the disc off and hitting the backside of the cassette with a hammer?

  24. #424
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    Quote Originally Posted by Parapax View Post
    Freehub is broken, turns both ways with no engagement. Taken both end caps off, put the cassette back on and tried to pull it off, doesn't want to move at all. Tried to pull it off with water pump pliers, didn't work. What`s next? Taking the disc off and hitting the backside of the cassette with a hammer?
    If you're out of other options you could try knocking the axle (and attached freehub) out from the other side. Place the hub over something with a circular hole that the flange can sit on, freehub down through the hole, and knock the axle through from the top. There is a lip that retains the axle behind the hub bearing, so you will pop the DS bearing out too, but at least you can see what's going on.

  25. #425
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forcemajeure View Post
    Attachment 1005059ayt here are some pics, took me several hours to complete the task as i wanna take my time and be careful with the bearings and hubs.. will test ride the bike next time

    i forgot to take a picture of the retainer ring, like a washer on the axle ratchet side, you have you use thin metal to pry it out

    1. remove the end caps by using 2 pcs 5mm allen key ( i think it was 5mm )
    2. pull out the free hub body by doing counter clockwise motion
    3, remove the bearings on the freehub body, just, toggle the spacer and gently tap the bearing and it will fall off
    4. remove the retainer or washer like metal ring on the axle you can check both sides to be sure, but i removed the one on the ratchet side
    5. use rubber mallet gently tap the axle, i chose to hit the rotor side first, once out use the axle to remove the 4th bearing

    now i used different kinds of sockets from my socket wrench set, and a threaded rod to act as a press tool, cost me $1 USD

    havn't tried riding my bike, since i also removed BB, cranks, pulley, rotors, rollers, general check up and clean up after a grueling ride on the mountain, trails, mud, heavy rain..

    Attachment 1005047Attachment 1005048Attachment 1005049Attachment 1005050Attachment 1005051Attachment 1005052Attachment 1005053Attachment 1005054
    Just replaced the rear bearings (freehub and shell) with SKF bearings purchased on eBay. After a quick run around the block I didn't detect any freehub skipping. I was really cranking hard corners on the asphalt and wasn't able to detect problems as I usually found the freehub skipping when coming out of a corner and pedaling hard.

    Also...as an FYI. Keep your old bearings as they come in handy to press in new ones if your using a threaded rod.

    Thanks everyone for the tips.

  26. #426
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    So finally got it off, what`s your thoughts? Koozer hubs, 72 POE @ under -2016-03-072022.41.51_zpsymrqmcga.jpgName:  2016-03-072022.42.04_zpsbp8l8njs.JPG
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Size:  128.4 KBKoozer hubs, 72 POE @ under -2016-03-072022.42.15_zpsmtjasqcv.jpgName:  2016-03-072022.43.37_zpsn66uvpdw.JPG
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  27. #427
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    That should buff right out...

    Holy hell, you did some job on destroying that thing. But why is it only 3 pawls? Was this an earlier koozer? Though I thought the black freehub was supposedly the new stronger design? Any chance it was a mismatched freehub from a different hub?

  28. #428
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    According to PayPal it`s a KOOZER HA02N/HA04N 72HD Hub. What is it supposed to look like? I have never had a freehub fail before, and this was after 20 hours of light riding :/

  29. #429
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    If you look on the last page, youll see a picture of a freehub with 6 pawls (the flippers that skip over the teeth in one direction, and grab in the opposite direction). Yours appears to be only 3 pawls. Do you have a picture of the ratchet ring? I believe that the ring should have 36 teeth. If you only have 3 pawls, you probably only had 36 POE and not 72, so you didnt really get what you paid for. And if it was a different brand freehub, that may have lead to your problems. But just as easily, this might be an earlier style, and was indeed the genuine article, but a design thats different from what most of us have. I cant confirm one way or another.

    Who did you buy it from?

  30. #430
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    Horrible light, but here you go. Bought it from Revmega.Name:  2016-03-082000.41.03_zpsdegtjhrt.JPG
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  31. #431
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    Quote Originally Posted by Parapax View Post
    According to PayPal it`s a KOOZER HA02N/HA04N 72HD Hub. What is it supposed to look like? I have never had a freehub fail before, and this was after 20 hours of light riding :/
    +1 on what GuitsBoy said. I see that all your pawls are stuck behind the springs instead of infront of them, hence no engagement. A few of mine were like that when I pulled mine out, not sure what causes it. I assumed it was deformation of the freehub body around where the pawls attach, but yours looks fine.

    If you pull the pawls out and push the springs back behind them your hub should work again (for the moment).

    Edit: That's 36 POE. They used to sell both 3 pawl and 6 pawl versions, either you picked the 36 POE one or they sent you the wrong one.

  32. #432
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    Quote Originally Posted by Parapax View Post
    Bought it from Revmega.
    Did you buy it recently? Shoot him a message stating that it failed in 20 hours of light riding, and show him these pics. Ask him why its not a 6 pawl freehub? My guess is it's either old stock, or some kind of factory mixup. Hopefully he can do something for you. Please keep us updated.

  33. #433
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    Quote Originally Posted by cerebroside View Post
    +1 on what GuitsBoy said. I see that all your pawls are stuck behind the springs instead of infront of them, hence no engagement. A few of mine were like that when I pulled mine out, not sure what causes it. I assumed it was deformation of the freehub body around where the pawls attach, but yours looks fine.

    If you pull the pawls out and push the springs back behind them your hub should work again (for the moment).
    Took me a minute to see them, but I think youre right. I thought the pawls had simply fallen out, but you can just see them peeking out behind the springs. Still, that freehub looks toasted. Look at the gouges from the ratchet ring. Hopefully the seller will help him out, and if not, free hubs are cheap, although Mine was $26 shipped, not $18 like posted above.

  34. #434
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    Quote Originally Posted by GuitsBoy View Post
    Took me a minute to see them, but I think youre right. I thought the pawls had simply fallen out, but you can just see them peeking out behind the springs. Still, that freehub looks toasted. Look at the gouges from the ratchet ring. Hopefully the seller will help him out, and if not, free hubs are cheap, although Mine was $26 shipped, not $18 like posted above.
    I don't think the gouges affect the operation of the freehub, though another poster in this thread said they indicated the bearings were poor which leads to the freehub body contacting the ratchet, and probably all the other problems people are having. Perhaps if the freehub moves far enough away from center the springs can slip out from under the pawls.

    My freehub was $18 USD and $5 shipping, though I haven't received it yet. Replaced my hub body bearings with SKF and put my old freehub back on for the moment.

  35. #435
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    Sent them a message with the pics. I bought this hub after searching the web for a affordable 12x142 hub without center lock disc mount (not easy to come by) I would not have bought it if i knew it was a 36 POE.

  36. #436
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    My concern would be that the gouges that deep would stand a bit proud on the edges as the metal is deformed and displaced, possibly contacting the ratchet and wearing sooner. Also, something caused it to seize and lock up to the point where it needed to be hammered out. I do agree that the bearings are the most likely contributor to the freehub getting skewed, and what you say makes sense about the springs coming out while under load.

    I guess no harm in trying, but Id certainly want a new freehub on its way just the same.

  37. #437
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    Result! Sent pics and asked them why the hub body reads 6 pawls and freehub only has 3 pawls. Here`s their response: "I see, it's our mistake. sorry for that, I will send you a new rear hub soon. It's a 3 pawls hub, a mistake by production line, some hubs mix together, it happens when our 12x142 hub first released last year. So please confirm your shipping address again. thank you"

    Happy camper

  38. #438
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    Quote Originally Posted by Parapax View Post
    Result! Sent pics and asked them why the hub body reads 6 pawls and freehub only has 3 pawls. Here`s their response: "I see, it's our mistake. sorry for that, I will send you a new rear hub soon. It's a 3 pawls hub, a mistake by production line, some hubs mix together, it happens when our 12x142 hub first released last year. So please confirm your shipping address again. thank you"

    Happy camper
    Bummer to read your story. Glad you are making progress. From the response it seems that they are shipping you a 3 pawl hub? Shouldn't it be a 6 pawl since that is the newer version.

    Good luck getting everything sorted.

  39. #439
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    Great news Parapax. Glad to hear theyre taking care of you.

    Sounds to me like they're sending you a whole new rear hub, not just the freehub. I guess you'll have to relace your rear wheel, but at least you'll have a better hub in there now.

    Are you planning on changing out the bearings as soon as you get the new hub?

  40. #440
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    Quote Originally Posted by GuitsBoy View Post

    Are you planning on changing out the bearings as soon as you get the new hub?
    Yeah might as well do that. Don't know how to build my own wheels so need to spend about 80usd to have my lbs build it up for me. Not exactly what I would call a cheap hub, total cost with two rebuilds and hardwear: 210usd. Could have bought a complete wheel for that price. Well, that's life.

  41. #441
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    You can just stick the freehub from your replacement hub in your old hub shell (for free). Might want to change the hub shell bearings first, though I don't think anyone has established whether that solves the problem yet.

  42. #442
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    Quote Originally Posted by cerebroside View Post
    You can just stick the freehub from your replacement hub in your old hub shell (for free). Might want to change the hub shell bearings first, though I don't think anyone has established whether that solves the problem yet.
    I recently took a look at the hub from a guy whose previous koozer freehub body failed totally (pawls broken, pawl bearing broken, FHB deformed and marred from making contact with the ratched ring). I posted the pictures earlier on this thread.

    So we got a new freehub body a couple of months ago, changed the pawl bearing with an "enduro" bearing right off the bat and installed it on his old hub shell. I told him I wanted to inspect it to see how it was holding up. The freehub body looked as good as new, it slid off the axle easily and smoothly when removing it, there were absolutely no marks from contacting the ratchet ring and all 6 pawls were working fine and dandy.
    I cant say for sure that that this is proof that the lousy stock pawl bearing is the culprit for these problems and that this is a definite fix, but it looks promising so far. This is a pretty hefty and strong dude btw. 250 pounds of fat and fit muscle. He can push some nice peak watts I am sure. Never underestimate the power of a fat fit man.

  43. #443
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    So do you think swapping out the freehub bearings only is enough preventative maintenance or do I really need to swap the hub shell bearings as well to see any benefit?

  44. #444
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    Quote Originally Posted by abelfonseca View Post
    I recently took a look at the hub from a guy whose previous koozer freehub body failed totally (pawls broken, pawl bearing broken, FHB deformed and marred from making contact with the ratched ring). I posted the pictures earlier on this thread.

    So we got a new freehub body a couple of months ago, changed the pawl bearing with an "enduro" bearing right off the bat and installed it on his old hub shell. I told him I wanted to inspect it to see how it was holding up. The freehub body looked as good as new, it slid off the axle easily and smoothly when removing it, there were absolutely no marks from contacting the ratchet ring and all 6 pawls were working fine and dandy.
    I cant say for sure that that this is proof that the lousy stock pawl bearing is the culprit for these problems and that this is a definite fix, but it looks promising so far. This is a pretty hefty and strong dude btw. 250 pounds of fat and fit muscle. He can push some nice peak watts I am sure. Never underestimate the power of a fat fit man.
    Good to hear. Mine will be fully changed to SKF when I get it, I'll try to pull it occasionally and update here.

  45. #445
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    Quote Originally Posted by GuitsBoy View Post
    So do you think swapping out the freehub bearings only is enough preventative maintenance or do I really need to swap the hub shell bearings as well to see any benefit?
    We decided on only replacing tha pawl side freehub body bearing because it was the only one that failed, the others were still rolling smoothly. I think it wouldnt hurt to have them all replaced, but if you want to skimp, at least go for the pawl side freehub body bearing.

  46. #446
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    I'll probably just replace them all at some point. Its a low priority since they haven't given me any issues yet. Though I just rebuilt my wheelset with i35 rims for my B+ build, so they're about to get some heavy mileage pretty quickly.

  47. #447
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    Im going to do both of the fhb bearings. Just paid $17 shipped for 2 of them, from SKF.

    I pulled apart the hub and removed the seals. The bearings are properly greased, they're just bad quality. On the plus side, these really are pretty big bearings. A decent quality bearing in the hub should really help it out.

    Im still a little weary of the axle thickness, but it does seem like more than a few people are having good luck after replacing the bearings.

    If you wait until something fails, its going to cause you more problems than if you just replaced the bearing right off the bat.

  48. #448
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    I contacted Jeroen at "The Hub Doctor" ebay store and asked if he had any packages for Koozer hubs, and he was kind enough to create two listings for us, one SKF and one Hybrid Ceramic. He said he prefers the hybrid ceramic ones since they roll faster. Both are rated ABEC 5. Not sure if there's anything else that would sway you towards SKF over the hybrid ceramic at the same price.

    Hybrid Ceramic for 15/12 thru axle:
    Koozer Hybrid Ceramic Ball Bearing Front Rear Wheels Freehub Bearings | eBay

    SKF for 15/12 thru axle:
    Koozer Hybrid SKF Ball Bearing Front Rear Wheels Freehub Bearings | eBay

    Anyway, these seem to be a bit cheaper than piecing together the bearings in 2 packs.

  49. #449
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    Quote Originally Posted by GuitsBoy View Post
    I contacted Jeroen at "The Hub Doctor" ebay store and asked if he had any packages for Koozer hubs, and he was kind enough to create two listings for us, one SKF and one Hybrid Ceramic. He said he prefers the hybrid ceramic ones since they roll faster. Both are rated ABEC 5. Not sure if there's anything else that would sway you towards SKF over the hybrid ceramic at the same price.

    Hybrid Ceramic:
    Koozer Hybrid Ceramic Ball Bearing Front Rear Wheels Freehub Bearings | eBay

    SKF:
    Koozer Hybrid SKF Ball Bearing Front Rear Wheels Freehub Bearings | eBay

    Anyway, these seem to be a bit cheaper than piecing together the bearings in 2 packs.
    Nice, that's who I just got mine from. They do say in the listing, but note that the QR front uses different bearings as stated on the last page.

  50. #450
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    Quote Originally Posted by cerebroside View Post
    Nice, that's who I just got mine from. They do say in the listing, but note that the QR front uses different bearings as stated on the last page.
    Sorry, yes, I meant to mention that. 15mm/12mm thru axles.

  51. #451
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    Quote Originally Posted by GuitsBoy View Post
    Sorry, yes, I meant to mention that. 15mm/12mm thru axles.
    Rear is the same, so it should work for 15-F/QR-R combos too. Not many people running QR front anymore, but 135 drops on the rear are still pretty popular on hardtails. Thanks for organizing that package with the seller.

  52. #452
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    I bought SKF abec 5's for the freehub. I think (hope?) they're stainless.

    I used enduro LLB's for the hub shell. They're big bearings with big seals, the llb's are supposed to have less seal drag than 2RS bearings.

    Total was $23 shipped. I dont necessarily want ceramics in my hubs. I think you get a better quality bearing using comparably priced stainless. Real high quality ceramics are insanely priced.

  53. #453
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    I finally got the QR endcaps for my 142 Koozer rear hub and finished building the wheel today. RevMega shipped out the correct parts right away. but it took 2 months by the time everything arrived.

    I used a Mavic F219 rim and Sapim Race spokes. I'll be ordering a spare freehub soon, just in case, and enduro bearings for the freehub.

  54. #454
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Pivot View Post
    I bought SKF abec 5's for the freehub. I think (hope?) they're stainless.

    I used enduro LLB's for the hub shell. They're big bearings with big seals, the llb's are supposed to have less seal drag than 2RS bearings.

    Total was $23 shipped. I dont necessarily want ceramics in my hubs. I think you get a better quality bearing using comparably priced stainless. Real high quality ceramics are insanely priced.
    I agree w you in regards to the ceramic bearings. I ordered some few yrs back to rebuild my wheels and they literally disintegrated after a short period of time. SKF work awesome from hub doc.


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  55. #455
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    Quote Originally Posted by funnyjr View Post
    I agree w you in regards to the ceramic bearings. I ordered some few yrs back to rebuild my wheels and they literally disintegrated after a short period of time. SKF work awesome from hub doc.
    Only reason I rolled the dice was because they ceramics were priced the same, and of the two, the hub doctor suggested the ceramic over skf. Ill have to defer to his expertise on the matter. If they do disintegrate in short order, it will be a rather inexpensive lesson in marketing.

  56. #456
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    I would like to try a 157mm OR a 150mm spacing for DH, not tons of pedaling in my world like you guys so I think the 6 pawls sound would just be a nice HOPE knock off that would be good enough for me?

    BTW The SKOOTER 24h hub with ratchet style engagement is a Chris King knock off, I think the truth is in the material they use to clone it.

  57. #457
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    This is absolutely not a DH hub.

  58. #458
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    Most roadies will put down much more torque than a DH rider. I'd have no issue running these on my DH bike. That said, they are not offered in a 12x150/157mm or a 20x110mm.
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  59. #459
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    People are destroying these things on normal bikes. ONE bearing goes out and the hub eats itself. While we can replace the bearing and keep going, its really not just that one bearing causing the issues. I have DT 240 hubs that had trashed bearings and the hub was fine. Its not about torque, its the axle bending. These dont have beefy axle. DH bikes need beefy axles.

  60. #460
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    i installed HCH bearing made in china, please dont use them, use japan made bearings

  61. #461
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    I have replaced the inner freehub body bearings on 2 different hubs and still cracked the freehub body and I used enduro bearings that are visibly thicker than the stock tekino bearings. I am now trying the new rear hub with the black hub body and hoping for better results.

  62. #462
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    My rear Koozer fell apart. Started to hear popping sounds from the hub. Took off the wheel first thing i noticed was the lock nut was loose. Pulled off the freehub and the bearing of the freehub was stuck on the axle. Pawls came out all over the place. Bearings are toast in the hub. Not going to bother fixing this hub. Going with a Hope. Something a lot more reliable.

  63. #463
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Pivot View Post
    People are destroying these things on normal bikes. ONE bearing goes out and the hub eats itself. While we can replace the bearing and keep going, its really not just that one bearing causing the issues. I have DT 240 hubs that had trashed bearings and the hub was fine. Its not about torque, its the axle bending. These dont have beefy axle. DH bikes need beefy axles.
    The forces applied through the pedals similarly reaches the axle. Yes, the bearings are appearing to be the short fall on these hubs but the flanges/body seem to be holding strong. There are a lot of sh!t hubs out there, I'll take these over 90% off the hubs on the market. Still no issues with my set that's ridden on my 130mm bike, but I'll take a look at the bearings next time the wheel is out. I'd have no issues putting them on my DH bike if 12x150mm and 20x110mm were offered.
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  64. #464
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    These black FHB's are really new. The old ones certainly werent holding up at all, so hopefully this new design really is significantly better... but we'll see. Its been raining enough that I cant get a ride in, but come summer I think a lot of us will be piling on miles. We'll see.

    As it sits now, these are one of those shit hubs on the market. The freehub shouldnt smash into the ratchet ring and destroy itself. I understand the few odd failures with any product, but we're seeing a pattern failure. I really hope they did fix it with the black freehub models.

    If you can build your own wheels... hey, 60 bucks for 72pt! If its going to be your only wheel and you're paying to build it up, id really wait a few months to see what happens.

  65. #465
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Pivot View Post
    These black FHB's are really new. The old ones certainly werent holding up at all, so hopefully this new design really is significantly better... but we'll see. Its been raining enough that I cant get a ride in, but come summer I think a lot of us will be piling on miles. We'll see.

    As it sits now, these are one of those shit hubs on the market. The freehub shouldnt smash into the ratchet ring and destroy itself. I understand the few odd failures with any product, but we're seeing a pattern failure. I really hope they did fix it with the black freehub models.

    If you can build your own wheels... hey, 60 bucks for 72pt! If its going to be your only wheel and you're paying to build it up, id really wait a few months to see what happens.
    Hard for me to complain since I've put a lot of kilometers on mine with no functional issues (just the freehub marring). Since people seem to be destroying newer ones in a matter of hours perhaps there is some quality fade going on? That has been a big problem with cheaper lights. Or perhaps they are just more popular now so the issues are more obvious.

    Either way, the next best deal (IMHO) for a high engagement hub is the Bitex/BHS MTB270, which is almost double the price ($110 USD) for slightly less engagement (54 POE). No reported issues with that one, and mine has been stellar.
    If you want 72 POE then there is the Superstar Tesla EVO, which is triple the price (and has its own freehub problems.)

  66. #466
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    It's a kinda tough call. In my case, I stick to used DT350 hubs, usually in complete wheelsets. You can find DT Swiss Spline wheels, usually take offs from people who are upgrading to carbon or what have you, for under $300, and if you're lucky you'll get one of the wider versions. I scored a set of X1700 for $250 in like-new condition. Koozer complete wheels would have cost $180 or so, and I've never built wheels so paying an extra $70 for a quality wheelset was worth it. Granted someday I'll need to upgrade to wider rims, but I also trust that the 54t rachet that's installed will still work completely fine, I'll still be able to get quality bearings, and even better, I'll be able to get 148 conversion end caps.

    I am totally that dude who has no problems sourcing cheap Chinese or Taiwanese parts, but in some cases going the used route and getting lightly used quality parts from big name manufacturers has its advantages.
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  67. #467
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    so, the new koozer hub (2016) is not recommended?

  68. #468
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cronoscr View Post
    so, the new koozer hub (2016) is not recommended?
    Hard to say. One person has broken theirs, but the specific circumstances are not known, apart from it probably being due to poor bearing quality (?). For the other failures it was not stated whether it was an old or new model.
    Obviously not the most reliable hub in the world, but if you are comfortable working on your own wheels and want to take a bit of a gamble for high POE, then I would still recommend it. Personally it has paid off for me, since I have not had any failures. If you are worried about reliability and are willing to pay a bit more then perhaps choose something else (i.e. BHS MTB270).

  69. #469
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    I have destroyed 2 of the earlier ones despite replacing the inner and outer freehub bearings with enduro bearings (gold color fhb's). I received one of the new 2016 black ones and have already put around 75 miles on it (others failed within 1 or 2 rides) and hard uphill miles and I weigh close to 240lbs. No scoring, no crushed bearings (kept the stock ones which are upgraded skf bearings) no noise, no issues whatsoever. The new ones have upgraded aluminum supposed to be the same hardness as DT Swiss fhb's. I think the problems have been fixed with the 2016 hubs, wouldn't hesitate to now buy them again. Rvmega on ebay has been the most helpful seller I have ever dealt with.

  70. #470
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    I am heavy , what is BHS MTB270?? i dont found any on ebay, actually i have a novatec but is something battered

  71. #471
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    I just want to put this out there. I'm running the original 72 poe hubs and have replaced the bearings (pro-actively) this past winter. However, these hubs have been solid for me. I'm 210+ geared up and I power over technical things. I've recently blown through an XT 10-speed cassette however the hub is still holding up strong. I do service the hub at the end of every season by cleaning and re-lubing the pawls. I've been running these hubs since May 2015 and I ride at least 3 times a week (aside from the last 2-3 winter months). I'm confused as to how many versions of these there are so maybe the first round were built stronger???


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  72. #472
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Pivot View Post
    ...Its not about torque, its the axle bending...
    There is a common theme running through all of these chinese rear hub failures - a thin wall alu 15mm axle is just not strong enough. There is a huge amount of bending force where the inner bearing of the freehub and the inner bearing in the hubshell meet. This is where the axle bends and results in contact with the drive ring, pawl failure, freehub failure and premature bearing failure. The bending of the axle is actually causing the bearings to fail because of the loads caused by the axle bending.

  73. #473
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    Quote Originally Posted by TigWorld View Post
    There is a common theme running through all of these chinese rear hub failures - a thin wall alu 15mm axle is just not strong enough.
    I just drilled out my endcaps and converted to a 10x135 thru axle. Would adding a short length of 10mm ID 12mm OD tube between the thru axle and the hub axle do anything to stiffen it? Does this problem only affect QR rear hubs and not thru axles for just this reason?

  74. #474
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    Chronoscr - BHS website, great customer service, nice basic hubs w/ a good reputation.
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  75. #475
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    Quote Originally Posted by GuitsBoy View Post
    I just drilled out my endcaps and converted to a 10x135 thru axle. Would adding a short length of 10mm ID 12mm OD tube between the thru axle and the hub axle do anything to stiffen it? Does this problem only affect QR rear hubs and not thru axles for just this reason?
    This would solve the problem IMHO.

  76. #476
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    Quote Originally Posted by TigWorld View Post
    This would solve the problem IMHO.
    Yeah, I figured it would be worth a try. I ordered a 50 cm length of 12mm OD 10mm ID titanium tubing from china for $16. Assuming the diameters are accurate, I should be able to cut it down with an angle grinder and reinforce the existing aluminum axle. It should work for QR skewers too, at least for the T/A hubs with QR endcaps.

  77. #477
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    Koozer hubs, 72 POE @ under $60

    Quote Originally Posted by TigWorld View Post
    The bending of the axle is actually causing the bearings to fail because of the loads caused by the axle bending.
    Or is it the other way around.. bearing failure causing axle to move?

    Since some have seemed to have remedied using higher quality bearings.

    I had same problems with Stans 3.30 hub and fixed using SKF bearings.

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  78. #478
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    SRAM XD Driver freehubs are out, it seems. Unfortunately 2016 model year only right now. Sent Revmega an email asking if the 2015 would be coming out soon. Ill let you guys know.

    Koozer HA02N HA04N Hub Parts Freehub SRAM XD Driver 2016 2015 Model | eBay

    Does anyone know if the 2015 and 2016 freehub pawls and ratchet rings are the same? Ive seen both hubs and endcaps, and it looks like if they did fit, you might be able to grind down the endcap a bit to get it to work on the 2015.

  79. #479
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    so far so good with my hubs. replaced the 2 bearings in the freehub as well. but did multiple rides with stock bearings

  80. #480
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    SRAM XD Driver info:

    As per Revmega, only the 2016 hub can be converted to XD driver. The 2015 hub is standard freehub only. Do not be confused by the ebay listing, if you select 2015, your only choice will be the standard freehub.

    Not sure its worth buying both a new rear hub AND freehub just to get an XD driver on there. Guess Ill stick with an 11t.

  81. #481
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    How do you distinguish between 2015 and 2016. Not sure which I have honestly

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  82. #482
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    I think you can tell by the freehub. The 2015 freehub has two 15267 bearings. The 2016 freehub has one 15267 and one 6902 I think. Not 100% sure exactly of the bearing number, but I do know the 2016 has two different bearings in the freehub.

  83. #483
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    I bought what was listed as a 2016. It has two 15267 bearings in the freehub, and a 6902 bearing shield stuffed in the end as a dust shield.

  84. #484
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    For what it's worth, a buddy of mine just brought his new xd driver over and it seems to swap fine with my older freehub. Mine is definitely two 15267 bearings. The endcaps were slightly different but it looked like it would work.

  85. #485
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    anyone has a link of a video for new koozer hubs XR1600 with clutch mech?

  86. #486
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    Revmega strongly cautioned me against using the XD freehub on the 2015 12mm rear hub. He said the waterproofing seal as well as the endcaps are different.

    Visually, yes they are different, but in measuring with a vernier caliper, the endcap is pretty close. Only .035" difference, which I could easily grind down. The waterproofing seal doesn't seem like it would physically interfere much either, but it my well become ineffective at keeping water out. It shoudl still offer some dust protection, but it wont be a perfect seal since the seals are different. I dont ride in a lot of adverse conditions, so I think Ill be ok.

    I think I'm going to throw caution to the wind and order up the XD freehub despite his warnings. Ill let you guys know how it goes.

  87. #487
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    So finally decided that I am going to try my hand at wheelbuilding this year and build up a new set of "wider" rims. I know that there was some talk of the bearings in these not being all that great and that some were changing them out.

    For those that changed them out, what did you change them too?
    Also, It looks like there may be an updated version that has newer bearings? When purchasing how do I tell which are the newer and which are the older?

  88. #488
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    Quote Originally Posted by gregnash View Post
    So finally decided that I am going to try my hand at wheelbuilding this year and build up a new set of "wider" rims. I know that there was some talk of the bearings in these not being all that great and that some were changing them out.

    For those that changed them out, what did you change them too?
    Also, It looks like there may be an updated version that has newer bearings? When purchasing how do I tell which are the newer and which are the older?
    reason why i changed the bearings was i just want to have a peace of mind, knowing that i can install japanese made bearings, instead of waiting for the chinese bearings to pop out...

    yup and i replaced them with hch chinese made bearings, after few months, i replaced them with japan made bearings.. so far so good

  89. #489
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    I use 2016 XD freehub on koozer 2015 hub. But I must use new 2016 freehub dust shield (orange) . With old 2015 (black) did not work properly.
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  90. #490
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    Quote Originally Posted by cipo23 View Post
    I use 2016 XD freehub on koozer 2015 hub. But I must use new 2016 freehub dust shield (orange) . With old 2015 (black) did not work properly.
    Great to hear. Where did you get the dust shield from? I was just going to try and turn down the xd freehub lip on a lathe, but Id rather swap out for the proper dust shield if possible.

  91. #491
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    Quote Originally Posted by GuitsBoy View Post
    Great to hear. Where did you get the dust shield from? I was just going to try and turn down the xd freehub lip on a lathe, but Id rather swap out for the proper dust shield if possible.

    I order new hub, so I try change it. I wrote REVMEGA about new dust shield. He sent them to me for free.

  92. #492
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    Can you just get the freehub body or bearings for the rear koozer hub.

  93. #493
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    Quote Originally Posted by caRpetbomBer View Post
    Can you just get the freehub body or bearings for the rear koozer hub.
    You can order new freehubs from Revmega on ebay. They have standard freehubs for both 2015 and 2016 hubs. The XD freehub is 2016 only, but a few of us are trying to retrofit to 2015 hubs.

    As for bearings, you can source the bearings from whereve you like. Most people seem to like SKF or enduro bearings. There are bearing pacakges available on ebay from "the hub doctor", but these are for the 2015 model. If you have the 2016 hubs, you can contact him with the bearing part numbers and see if he will customize a set for you. Or you can buy each bearing individually (or in pairs) for a couple bucks more.

  94. #494
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    Forgot to mention this, but I successfully reinforced my rear axle. I ordered a length of 12mm titanium tubing from ebay, and it just arrived yesterday. I measured the existing axle length and cut the tubing down with an angle grinder. Sadly, it was a little too tight to fit through the stock axle, so I put it in my drill press chuck, and spent 20-30 minutes sanding it down with emory cloth. Finally, I removed enough material to tap it through the stock axle. The 10mm thru axle I have was still a bit loose, so I shimmed with with some metal tape I had laying around. Now everything is a snug fit, and the rear axle should me considerably stiffer than it was. Good thing too, since I already have ratchet ring teeth marks on the freehub body due to axle flex, even with upgraded bearings.

  95. #495
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    Man this thread is scaring me. I built 2 sets of wheels with the 2015 hubs for my kids. I figured their weight would be ok, but you guys are making me wonder if I'm going to be walking bikes back to the car this summer.

    Can someone give me the numbers for the bearings I need to order? Is the front as susceptible as the rear?

  96. #496
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    Quote Originally Posted by GuitsBoy View Post
    I think you can tell by the freehub. The 2015 freehub has two 15267 bearings. The 2016 freehub has one 15267 and one 6902 I think. Not 100% sure exactly of the bearing number, but I do know the 2016 has two different bearings in the freehub.
    @Erock503 The 15267 is the bearings that I believe you are wanting to go with for everything. If nothing else you can pull the hubs apart and see the bearing numbers on the bearings themselves or talk with RevMega on ebay. There is nothing really "wrong" with the supplied bearings, I mean this thread has been going on for a while with 20pgs of responses and I think 1 person has had bearing issues. Ultimately, most people will NOT like things that are Chinese made due to the QA/QC processes being fairly inaccurate (or at least that is the perception) and so they just replace. But again, if you do not have issues then you should be fine. and really if you are having kids ride these then you are definitely fine. I believe that once you get into adults that ride hard and are a bit heavier (clydes even) that is where the Chinese bearings start having issues.

  97. #497
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    Quote Originally Posted by Erock503 View Post
    Man this thread is scaring me. I built 2 sets of wheels with the 2015 hubs for my kids. I figured their weight would be ok, but you guys are making me wonder if I'm going to be walking bikes back to the car this summer.

    Can someone give me the numbers for the bearings I need to order? Is the front as susceptible as the rear?
    I'm >180 lbs before gear and haven't had a failure in over a year of riding. Still on the original freehub since my replacement hasn't arrived yet, and the bearings needed doing anyway. I think a lot of other people are replacing the bearings more as a precaution than anything. If you're worried about it pull the freehub and check for marring or pawls stuck behind springs.

    Edit: The bearing replacement advice only relates to the freehub marring and pawls moving out of place, you only need to do the front if your bearings get gritty, etc.

  98. #498
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    I have to agree with what gregnash has to say. No cause for concern, especially at child weights.

    I am proactively replacing and reinforcing my rear hub because I am at 240 Lb ride weight with a 425 pound squat. That's not to say I'm a good rider, but I certainly put more force on my drivetrain than the average joe. The fact that my stock hubs survived my first trip out should give you confidence they'll hold up for your kids.

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    Thanks guys, really appreciate the perspective and numbers.

  100. #500
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    I am with @Guitsboy in that when I get mine I will probably look at replacing the bearings with high quality Japanese bearings. This is mainly because I will be taking my time to build these new rims, not in any particular hurry.

    I am a research analyst by profession and nature, so this will give me adequate time to do some learning and make determinations on some good bearing companies. I know that NSK and SKF are good brands and have heard mixed reviews about Enduro. Ultimately, everyone has a main mfg somewhere and they are not dedicated to producing the exact same bearing for just one company, so many times you can find off-brand bearings that are made to the same quality standards as the higher end bearings but at half the cost (this was my findings about 10yrs ago when Vizio first started coming on to the LED/LCD TV market).

  101. #501
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    Hi folks.I am planing to put together a pair soon.
    I need help with some sizes of hub.
    Hub center to flange center ?
    Rear:34.74mm and 22mm
    Front: 23.16mm and 38.21mm

    Please advised am I looking at the right number?
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Koozer hubs, 72 POE @ under -screenshot_2016-04-11-14-00-00.jpg  

    Koozer hubs, 72 POE @ under -screenshot_2016-04-11-13-26-20.jpg  

    2016 Ragley Mmmbop 27.5

  102. #502
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    Quote Originally Posted by microbike View Post
    Hi folks.I am planing to put together a pair soon.
    I need help with some sizes of hub.
    Hub center to flange center ?
    Rear:34.74mm and 22mm
    Front: 23.16mm and 38.21mm

    Please advised am I looking at the right number?
    That's how I did mine. Looks good to me.

  103. #503
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    Should be getting my new rear tomorrow. Interested to see, touch it and take a look at the internals and bearing. Ended up contacting RevMega to see about 20mm front and Boost. He said definitely not doing 20mm fronts but Boost is something that may happen soon.

  104. #504
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    Quote Originally Posted by gregnash View Post
    Should be getting my new rear tomorrow. Interested to see, touch it and take a look at the internals and bearing. Ended up contacting RevMega to see about 20mm front and Boost. He said definitely not doing 20mm fronts but Boost is something that may happen soon.
    Hi there,please share the Hub center to flange center size number.
    I was looking at below number,hope they are correct.
    Rear:34.74mm and 22mm
    Front: 23.16mm and 38.21mm
    2016 Ragley Mmmbop 27.5

  105. #505
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    Only ended up getting the rear but that looks to be right according to their drawings. When I get home tonight I can take a look and grab my calipers.

    Funny thing is that the hub is much nicer looking than I expected. Can confirm the bearings with photos tonight. Pretty much only had time to pull out of the box and hear it click, which was NUTS hearing that much engagement.

  106. #506
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    Ok so here are measurements from my hub
    Overall hub length w/ caps = 141.8mm
    Overall hubshell = 79.25mm
    Driveside hub flange = 67.93mm
    N/Driveside hub flange = 67.91mm
    Inside of NDs hub flange to end of cap = 37.84mm
    Inside of Ds hub flange to end of cap = 53.4mm
    Centerline of hub measurement would be 70.9mm (half of overall length)
    with above calculations
    Centerline to NDs hub flange = 33.06mm
    Centerline to Ds hub flange = 17.5mm

    Now I am doing this based on measurements calculation instructions from Roger Musson's website (I bought the book) which tells you to measure from the inside edge of the hub flanges which is slightly different than Koozer (they measure from middle of hub flange itself). I measure the hub flanges being 3.51mm thick each so you could compensate by half that on both. (here is his Spoke Calculator page). So they are pretty close with how the measure... As his book says, you can use the mfgr's info as a basis but you should ALWAYS measure for yourself. As you can see mine are just a bit off from their numbers but probably within an allowable amount.

    I am going to message RevMega as I have one concern with the hub. In the hub body there seems to be a small piece of tubing that is meant for the axles to slide in. Mine is loose and rattles around in there when I take the hub body off. Anyone else have this issue?

    In this photo you can see what I am talking about.
    Untitled by Greg Fisicaro, on Flickr

    Untitled by Greg Fisicaro, on Flickr

    Untitled by Greg Fisicaro, on Flickr

  107. #507
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    Got a response back from RevMega (Matt) this morning and he said that it is just fine. The internal of the body is built like that and will not cause problems. Stoked at his quick response!

  108. #508
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    Ordered and received my third set. Once again, flawless transaction. My latest order shipped DHL (opposed to USPS), only 4 days in transit!

    I had an identical Hope Pro 4 hub set on hand (15x100mm, 12x142mm XD), the hub sets are within 10 grams of each other. 475g for Hope, 480g for Koozer (not the most accurate scale, it uses 5g increments).
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  109. #509
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    Swapped over to the new XD driver and a sram GX casette last night. Fit the 2015 12x142 rear axle just fine with the stock endcap, not the one provided with the XD. Pulled the dust seal out of the hub shell (snap fit) for the time being, until the compatible one comes in.

    Worked beautifully on a 15+ mile ride this morning. The 10t really helps now that I've dropped to a 28T direct mount up front. Ordered a pair of 15267 ceramic bearings to swap in there at some point in the future.

  110. #510
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    it seems that LDCNC hubs and koozer is using the same bearing size for the free hub body, 15x26x7 or simply 15267, anyone knows where i can buy that kind of bearing? mine is still ok but for peace of mind it will be much better if i have a backup

  111. #511
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    Ebay. Just make sure it's from a quality manufacturer.

  112. #512
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    Yeah I found them on ebay. SKF is a good brand as well as Enduro.. Looks like the stock bearing are NBK which I have never heard of before.

  113. #513
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    I went with the "hub doctor" on ebay for my bearings. His customer service has been great. I went with the ceramic hybrid bearings (unknown manufacturer) at his suggestion, but he also sells SKF. Theres a few other sellers, but thats the only one I've dealt with.

  114. #514
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    Has anybody else broken the blue plastic pawl retaining ring on the freehub? I took my freehub off to clean it out, and install the newer style dust seal I received from revmega. While cleaning the freehub with a cloth, the retaining ring split in two. I attempted to take one from my old standard freehub and broke that one as well. I'm pretty sure Its not absolutely necessary, but Id like to replace the ring. Has anyone else run into this as well?

    Otherwise the modifications I have made are helping considerably. I have ZERO marks from the ratchet ring making contact with the freehub now. The 12mm x 10mm titanium intermediate axle, and the 10x135 thru axle, not to mention the new bearings, have really solidified things. The hub seems very very stout now, since I am putting a lot to torque through them at 240 lbs ride weight, 28t/42t gearing, and 3.0" tires.

  115. #515
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    Quote Originally Posted by GuitsBoy View Post
    Has anybody else broken the blue plastic pawl retaining ring on the freehub? I took my freehub off to clean it out, and install the newer style dust seal I received from revmega. While cleaning the freehub with a cloth, the retaining ring split in two. I attempted to take one from my old standard freehub and broke that one as well. I'm pretty sure Its not absolutely necessary, but Id like to replace the ring. Has anyone else run into this as well?

    Otherwise the modifications I have made are helping considerably. I have ZERO marks from the ratchet ring making contact with the freehub now. The 12mm x 10mm titanium intermediate axle, and the 10x135 thru axle, not to mention the new bearings, have really solidified things. The hub seems very very stout now, since I am putting a lot to torque through them at 240 lbs ride weight, 28t/42t gearing, and 3.0" tires.
    Funny you mention this...yes is the short answer.

    Been on my hubs for 4 months. After a few rides I notices that I was getting a periodic skip on the freehub when pedaling. Almost felt like one pawl was not catching before the next in line grabbed. So based on feedback in this thread I ordered SKF bearings for the rear hub and freehub. When swapping the bearings out I did check that the blue retaining ring on the freehub was intact. With the new bearings I was still getting that periodic skip which after another week got progressively worse. I cleaned and oiled the freehub to no avail. Then the freehub had a catastrophic failure. See pictures:

    https://drive.google.com/open?id=0By...lFEMEktYlI4Y1k

    https://drive.google.com/open?id=0By...lFEMEktYlI4Y1k

    Revmega was very responsive (within 10 minutes) and has sent me a replacement freehub. However, it has been 2 weeks and I have not received it yet.

    When ordering my hubs I did purchase a spare freehub which I have been riding on for a week. So back to GuitsBoy...

    After the second ride on the new freehub the skipping has returned and I immediately inspected the freehub. I noticed that one of the pawls was not springing back to full height and with the same force as the other ones. The spring appears to have deformed slightly so I salvaged the best one from my failed freehub. I also noticed that the blue retaining ring/spacer was cracked. It is made of very brittle plastic.

    My assessment:
    1.) I am not butt hurt over my experiences as I willingly took a change on an inexpensive hub. RevMega has provided excellent customer service for a mail order operation. However, in retrospect they have been almost as expensive than my previous BHS MTB270's if I account for the bearing upgrades.

    2.) I am 165lbs., ride an Ragley mmmbop AM HT and ride somewhat aggressively. This includes 5-6' drops, regular sessions to the dirt jumps and street sessions around the house. So for me, it seems these hubs are just not up to the abuse.

    3.) I believe that these hubs have great potential with some minor manufacturing tweaks. The ascetics and engagent/drag combo are impressive at this price point. Mainly, the pawl springs need to be more robust and the blue pawls retaining ring/spacer needs to be made out of a different material or better yet re-engineered.

    4.) I have decided to go back to BHS MTB270 hubs which I just ordered. Fortunately, the WheelPro spoke calculator tells me that I can re-use the same spokes as the hub dimensions are close enough. I rode these hubs all last year on my Bandit 29er and they definitely took abuse from Pisgah, Moab, Downieville, Bellingham, Sedona.

    Happy trails!

  116. #516
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    DudeDowne, what axle were you running? 12 x 142? Try sliding the thru axle through hub axle and see if theres excessive play. You might be able to reduce the axle flex by shimming the thru axle with whatever is on hand, that way the hub axle can use the strength of the T/A as well.

    Sadly there's not much to do as far as the pawl springs. They look pretty generic though, perhaps they can be replaced with another make?

    Or perhaps youve indeed found the upper limit to what these hubs can handle. I may pump out a good bit of torque due to my weight, but I certainly dont have AM trails like what youre riding. Good luck with it tough.

  117. #517
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    Quote Originally Posted by GuitsBoy View Post
    DudeDowne, what axle were you running? 12 x 142? Try sliding the thru axle through hub axle and see if theres excessive play. You might be able to reduce the axle flex by shimming the thru axle with whatever is on hand, that way the hub axle can use the strength of the T/A as well.

    Sadly there's not much to do as far as the pawl springs. They look pretty generic though, perhaps they can be replaced with another make?

    Or perhaps youve indeed found the upper limit to what these hubs can handle. I may pump out a good bit of torque due to my weight, but I certainly dont have AM trails like what youre riding. Good luck with it tough.
    I run 142x12. Agreed on ensuring thru axles are snug. This is why I do not run QR type and always use blue loctite.

    In my case I am not convinced it was the "flexy" axle or the "weak" bearings. On my second free hub I was using SKF upgrades from day one.

    I think that the way the free hub is only held in place against the drop out attributes to the problem. Basically on the drive side you have drop out, plastic end cap, hollow axle. All cinched together with the thru axle. As the rear triangle flexes the aforementioned pieces would certainly flex, especially under hard pedaling. Having an aluminum end cap that threads on the axle and secures the free hub would be a better system imho.

    Once again, I would buy a set for casual xc type rider or my kids bikes. Let's hope Koozer will take feedback and can make incremental improvements that keep costs down and robustness up.

    Thanks everyone for your feedback.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk

  118. #518
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    I have recently bought a Koozer rear hub too, took it apart and examine the axle diameter. This diameter of the axle is the same as the older generation Hope Pro 2 thru axle. (OD:15mm, ID:12mm, Aluminium shaft) It seems that this axle is not strong enough to do the job, causing flex and may snap over time with metal fatigue. Since I am using it as 135 QR, I am planning to stuff an reinforce axle (maybe a 12mm x 10mm x 125mm axle stainless steel hollow shaft) into the axle as reinforcement (as what GuitsBoy did).
    Oh, my blue retaining ring was split even as the hub is brand new, I think functionally, it still does the job even when broken. A steel washer ring should probably do a much better job though.
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  119. #519
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    Quote Originally Posted by FreshWaterLake View Post
    I am planning to stuff an reinforce axle (maybe a 12mm x 10mm x 125mm axle stainless steel hollow shaft) into the axle as reinforcement (as what GuitsBoy did).
    Cool, I have a couple hundred miles on this setup so far, and I dont see any gouging on the freehub body yet. Considering I'm squarely in clyde territory, I think the modifications are certainly helping. I used a Ti axle tube since it was all I could source on ebay. It took quite a bit of sanding to get it to fit. Not quite sure if the stock axle was undersized or the new tube was oversized. Since I dont have a lathe at home, I used a crappy drill press and some emery cloth to remove enough material to get it to fit. Stainless should be pretty stiff, but easier to work with if you need to remove some material as I did. It will be a slight weight penalty, but Id gladly add a few grams in exchange for a beefier hub. Good luck with your mods!

  120. #520
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    Guitsboy can you post some pics of your modified axle? How much time did you spend getting it right to fit? I know a few machinists that I may be able to pull some strings with and see about doing a better axle but wondering if doing something like FreshWaterLake did and getting an axle from a different company (like HOPE) would add some rigidity to the axle.

  121. #521
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    Yeah, man. I keep meaning to snap a couple pics of it, but just haven't gotten around to it. But honestly there's not much to it that you cant visualize. Its simply a smaller tube inside the existing axle.

    Here's the Ti tube I purchased:
    1pcs Titanium Grade 2 GR 2 Tube OD 12mm x 10mm ID Wall 1mm Length 50cm | eBay

    I spent about 30 - 45 minutes total spinning the tube in my drill press, and went through about 2-3 feet of 1" emery cloth before I could comfortably tap it through with a hammer.

    A machinist could take off 1-2 thousandths in seconds on a lathe. My father happens to be a machinist, but figured it wasn't worth all the trouble, not to mention the few days in transit, to mail it to him. The drill press wound up working well enough.

    If the hope axle is known to fit (ie. bearing width/spacing), then it may be an upgrade, but if its the same dimensions and thickness, it may not be much stronger than the koozer axle is.

  122. #522
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    So if I am understanding you correctly you basically just put the axle on a drill and made it into a mini lathe? Then ran the emery cloth over it while it was spinning to bring down the OD?

  123. #523
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    guitsboy,

    you custom made a Ti axle / shaft for koozer rear hub?

    pictures please... insane build

  124. #524
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    About 50-75 miles in. Skf bearings already installed. My new 2016 black freehub is deforming at the pawls. 2 pawls are gritty, even after cleaning and lubing with slick honey. I can polish the pawls, but the aluminum deformation cant be fixed. The freehub is on its way out already and that explains the occasional skip under torque. Summer riding season is close, id be surprised if I'm not lacing up a new hub before season end.

    My bhs hub must be 8 years old now. Still works like new.

  125. #525
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    Hi gregnash,

    I like to clarify that hope pro 2 axle is not an equivalent replacement. The machining steps and pitching distance for bearings are most probably different between the 2 designs.
    What I meant is that hope pro 2 didn't have axle problem with their 135mm QR version (due to the thicker axle wall diameter for their QR axle). The 12mm x 142mm version kept breaking because they had the same 15mm outer and 12mm inner diameter, just like the koozer hub axle. They were made too thin (1.5mm thick wall only).

    I think Koozer may solve the problem if they machined the axle with steel/stainless steel shaft, but then again, it's much more expensive and harder to machine steel axle.
    worse, hub won't sell when they are made so heavy this way.
    They can easily solve QR version problem by making the axle wall thicker (or add a reinforcement shaft to the existing design) , meaning making the inner wall diameter smaller than 12mm, but this will make it NOT 12mm x 142mm compatible, which then, most modern bikes are now thru axle.

    I think the next step Koozer should do is to change the design to make the bearings bigger (heck, make even more POE ratchet gears with the increase hub diameter) and solve the problem long term, just like hope pro 2 changing to hope pro Evo.

    I am sure its still a great hub for 135mm QR after adding the reinforcement shaft.
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  126. #526
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    Quote Originally Posted by gregnash View Post
    So if I am understanding you correctly you basically just put the axle on a drill and made it into a mini lathe? Then ran the emery cloth over it while it was spinning to bring down the OD?
    Yes, exactly. You have to do one side first, then flip it around in the chuck to get the other side too. I tried using a file as well, but I think the emery cloth worked better.

    Quote Originally Posted by Forcemajeure View Post
    guitsboy,

    you custom made a Ti axle / shaft for koozer rear hub?

    pictures please... insane build
    I assure you, its nothing incredible.

    I quickly snapped a couple photos this morning before heading to work, so I didnt have a chance to clean the dirt and dust. Pardon the filthy appearance. But at least you get the idea.

    Koozer hubs, 72 POE @ under -20160515_152810.jpg

    Koozer hubs, 72 POE @ under -20160515_152827.jpg

    The intermediate axle is simply an extra tube sitting inside the stock axle.

    Koozer hubs, 72 POE @ under -20160515_152837.jpg

    As you can see, I am finally getting some some tooth marks on the freehub body, so there is still some flex happening, however it is far less than my old freehub that was run without the extra intermediate axle. Over the weekend I rode 22 miles of relentless short steep hills, followed by downhill sections with sharp turns at the bottom, so I was hammering the shifting very hard. I put the 28T / 42T gearing to good work. Considering my weight and how abusive I was shifting I'm not surprised there are some freehub markings. But while the ridges can be felt, theyre not deep enough to catch your fingernail on, and they look worse in pictures than they actually are.

    Koozer hubs, 72 POE @ under -20160515_152921.jpg

    Here's the whole setup. I use a 10x135mm thru axle, and I drilled out the end caps accordingly. The blue tape on the thru axle is simply to shim the axle for a tighter fit through the titanium secondary axle, that way I can leverage the stiffness of the thru axle as well.

    If you drill out the end caps for a 10x135 thru axle, make sure you drill them from the inside, as the drill will stay centered better that way. The part that sits in the dropout will simply pop off once youve drilled from behind it. My first pair of endcaps were drilled from out outside first, and the hole was off center, so learn from my mistakes.

    The bearings you see are from "The Hub Doctor" on ebay. They are the ceramic hybrid bearings, and I believe they ran about $42 for the six of them. They are 2015 model hubs, and I have retrofitted a 2016 xD freehub to work with the older style. Revmega was able to send me a new style dust seal to get the 2016 freehub to work with the 2015 hub shell. The original endcaps worked just fine.

  127. #527
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forcemajeure View Post
    it seems that LDCNC hubs and koozer is using the same bearing size for the free hub body, 15x26x7 or simply 15267, anyone knows where i can buy that kind of bearing? mine is still ok but for peace of mind it will be much better if i have a backup
    Based on the size you quoted of 15mm x 26mm x 7mm. RWC or Enduro Seals has these in ceramic Hybrid bearings for $18/per bearing. May look to order a set as I just ordered the Koozer 12 x 142 rear tonight.

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    CERAMIC HYBRID BEARINGS BY ENDURO
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  128. #528
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    A normal bearing is 5 dollars and works just as well. Maybe better.

  129. #529
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    Ok don't get me wrong.
    But is all this hassle worth it?
    I have been keeping an eye in these hubs for some time, as I have been taunting the idea of build a new wheelset.
    And I love to mess with things, hell I service my forks, shocks, headset and hubs when I'm bored.
    But is it really worth it to pay 60 bucks for a hub? And have to rebuild them from the get go and put some SKF bearings, there are even people putting ceramic bearings that worth more than the hub, and even after that the hub has flex and isn't very thrust worth.

  130. #530
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aglo View Post
    Ok don't get me wrong.
    But is all this hassle worth it?
    I have been keeping an eye in these hubs for some time, as I have been taunting the idea of build a new wheelset.
    And I love to mess with things, hell I service my forks, shocks, headset and hubs when I'm bored.
    But is it really worth it to pay 60 bucks for a hub? And have to rebuild them from the get go and put some SKF bearings, there are even people putting ceramic bearings that worth more than the hub, and even after that the hub has flex and isn't very thrust worth.
    You have valid concerns. This has proven to be a bit of an experiment for all of us, and has turned into an evolving project for sure. But its still a hard bargain to beat, even after the upgrades. And how good of a bargain really depends on your weight and riding style.

    For me, my area consists of mainly singletrack, with no drops over 1-2 feet. Its relatively docile compared to what others ride. Considing my weight, stiffening teh axle was more important than the bearings. The Ti tube cost me $15 and is long enough to modify 3 to 4 rear hubs. I probably didnt need to swap out the bearings, at least not immediately, but I felt it was cheap insurance at the time.

    So now, I have a 60 POE hubset with all ceramic hybrid bearings for a grand total of $140. That's hard to beat. The BHS hubs are $175 and the TPI bearings are probably slightly lower quality than SKF. If I eventually irreparably destroy the rear hub, I may re-lace a set of BHS hubs to my wheelset. But for now, these hubs are working quite well, and seem to be holding up to whatever I can throw at them.

  131. #531
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    Yeah I am with GuitsBoy... I specifically bought these as a "toy" to teach myself how to build my own wheels. Figured that at $50-$60 for the rear by itself I could play with it and take my time building the wheels. The new, upgraded bearings just give me piece of mind that I touched it and did something to it that could possibly improve its longevity. I have found SKF bearing sets made for DT hubs that are sold on ebay for $15/pair so to me I could technically rebuild the hub with all new bearings for close to the cost of the hub.

    The axle flex thing is something to be aware of but is a variable that is a bit one off as GuitsBoy is the only one that has mentioned anything about it. Something that when I finish and start using them that I will be aware of. For now I have installed just the hub in the rear of my frame and tried to see if I could feel any noticeable play and felt nothing.

  132. #532
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    Quote Originally Posted by gregnash View Post
    The axle flex thing is something to be aware of but is a variable that is a bit one off as GuitsBoy is the only one that has mentioned anything about it. .
    There's quite a few who mentioned axle flex before I did. The markings on the freehub have been attributed to both sloppy bearings as well as axle flex. If you see the freehub getting gouged up by the ratchet ring, you'd do well to take some kind of action. But again, it depends on your weight and riding style. A 230 pound gym rat that furiously mashes up the hillside will be far more susceptible than a 160 pounder that sits and spins.

  133. #533
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    Quote Originally Posted by GuitsBoy View Post
    There's quite a few who mentioned axle flex before I did. The markings on the freehub have been attributed to both sloppy bearings as well as axle flex. If you see the freehub getting gouged up by the ratchet ring, you'd do well to take some kind of action. But again, it depends on your weight and riding style. A 230 pound gym rat that furiously mashes up the hillside will be far more susceptible than a 160 pounder that sits and spins.
    LOL.... that last part made me giggle!

    I think you are correct that, again, it is a variable to be aware of. I am probably on the higher end of the average rider weight at 180+ but still ride hard and on gnarly terrain. Again something to be aware of and keep an eye out for.
    Here is a link to the SKF (DT Swiss 240 set) bearings for $15 for the 6902
    Here are the 15267
    However, looking at my freehub the exterior bearing is a different one, want to say it was a 6801 but don't have it in front of me.

  134. #534
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    If you are concerned about the reliability then pay the extra and get the BHS. If not the Koozers are 1/3 the price and replacement parts are pretty cheap. I think replacing the bearings straight off the bat is overkill unless you are getting them very cheaply. Just keep an eye on the freehub condition and replace when necessary.

  135. #535
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    I learned a lot from this thread, will check for axle flex on my koozer, so far my koozer is only for road and light to medium trails, koozer been sitting for few months now, as i'm focused on road / hills with ldcnc and circus monkeys

  136. #536
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    The axle flex does suck, and its an issue. My freehub being smashed and deformed by the pawls is a failure of the hub though. Thats kind of a big deal.

  137. #537
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    OK, I'm around 80Kg and I do some mash on uphills, mostly technical parts.
    The high engagement is what made me take a notice on them, and I can get the SKF bearings locally on an industry supplier, but the flex make me have some doubts :/.
    My frame is X12, so inserting a titanium sleeve is not an option, and machining an axle is absolutely not an option .
    Until e decide to build the wheels I will keep an eye on this thread, and hope they fix the flex.

  138. #538
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aglo View Post
    My frame is X12, so inserting a titanium sleeve is not an option, and machining an axle is absolutely not an option
    As long as the 12mm thru axle fits snugly in the koozers's 12mm ID axle, then youre already leveraging the stiffness of the thru axle to strengthen the stock axle. If its not as snug as you'd like, try shimming it with metal shim stock tape, or even plastic. While I dont know the exact numbers, I suspect the QR hubs have a bigger problem with axle flex.

  139. #539
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    I have added 2 photos of the additional aluminium 6061 shaft reinforcement.
    The shaft length is 125.60mm
    Diameter is OD 12mm, ID 8mm
    Let's see how well it hold up when the wheel is finally completed.




    2009 Turner 5-Spot DW (B26 conversion)
    2013 Turner Sultan
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  140. #540
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    Nice! That looks awesome! Where did you source the tubing from? Or did you have it turned down by a machine shop?

  141. #541
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    I have a brother working in a machining shop. He custom made for me.
    Last edited by FreshWaterLake; 05-19-2016 at 08:20 AM.
    2009 Turner 5-Spot DW (B26 conversion)
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  142. #542
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    Something I find interesting about the freehub marring is that it mostly seems to occurs at a regular spacing corresponding to the ratchet ring. Mine has some more minor wear outside of these locations, but looking at the pictures posted in this thread the wear seems to be consistently at the same spacing.

    Obviously the marks are from the ratchet ring, but the fact that the ratchet ring is contacting the freehub at the same place every time suggests that it is mostly happening while the hub is engaged, not while freewheeling. If the ratchet ring was moving relative to the freehub when it contacts then the wear should be around the whole surface of the freehub, which hasn't been seen. I would have expected more axle deformation while freewheeling (drops, jumps, hard impacts, etc), not while pedaling.

    Perhaps the bigger problem is something like undersized freehub bearings?

  143. #543
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    Koozer hubs, 72 POE @ under $60

    Chicken or the egg scenario. Is it the axle or bearing ? The 6902 should be sufficient bearing size.
    Had same issue with Stans 3.30 hub and it was definitely undersized bearing that blew up.
    SKF + Ti custom axle would make this hub great imo


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    Last edited by funnyjr; 05-19-2016 at 01:16 PM.

  144. #544
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    @cerebroside, in my opinion, the deformation is happening when youre mashing hard in your lowest gear, when the the chain tension and applied torque from the large cog is greatest. The chain is pulling the inner large cog towards the front of the bike, and bending the axle slightly towards the front, and pulling the freehub crooked due to the free play in bearings and axle clearances. When axle and free play deflection is severs enough, it makes contact with the teeth of the ratchet ring. Since there are only 72 positions for the freewheel to be in, youll likely see 72 markings around the freehub body. I'm sure theres plenty of axle deflection when landing drops and such, but the freehub is not being pulled cockeyed as it is when under load, and apparently thats just enough to make the difference between gouging, and floating along smoothly.

  145. #545
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    Could this also have something to do with fitment of the cassette to the Freehub body? For instance, when I changed over to my Praxis 11/40 rear cassette on my current wheels it was tight enough that I needed a rubber mallet to gently tap the first 3 rings on. Same was with my old 11/36 XT cassette on the same freehub.

    For those of you that have recently installed your cassette on a new(er) freehub did you notice if the cassette was on there firmly or did it just easily slide on? I also noticed a different part number on the exterior most bearing of the freehub that was completely different from the others on my 2016 version. Wondering if THAT version is using an undersized and cheaper bearing which would be causing issues. I will try to remember to post up number when I get home tonight from work. May even throw the old cassette on the hub just to see how fitment is.

  146. #546
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    Quote Originally Posted by gregnash View Post
    Could this also have something to do with fitment of the cassette to the Freehub body?
    The marring in question is on the "hidden" side of the freehub body, where the pawls are, which slides into the hub shell. Cassettes gouging on the freehub spline are a common problem with aluminum freehubs, and its definitely cassette specific. Ive read other accounts of the praxxis fitting extremely tight, though I dont recall mine being anything out of the ordinary.

    Anyway, I personally dont see much chance a loose or tight fitting cassette could cause ratchet ring gouging on the other side of the freehub. The bearing size issue however could be a contributing factor.

  147. #547
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    Ok so just checked and the exterior bearing is a 6201RS bearing while the inside is a 15267. So that could be something. I found that putting my old 11/36 XT 10spd cassette on it did have about 2mm worth of play. But that was without tightening down the cassette.

  148. #548
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    Are you sure its not a 6201 shield only and not two 15267s? Mine was.

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    Untitled by Greg Fisicaro, on Flickr

  150. #550
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    Quote Originally Posted by GuitsBoy View Post
    @cerebroside, in my opinion, the deformation is happening when youre mashing hard in your lowest gear, when the the chain tension and applied torque from the large cog is greatest. The chain is pulling the inner large cog towards the front of the bike, and bending the axle slightly towards the front, and pulling the freehub crooked due to the free play in bearings and axle clearances. When axle and free play deflection is severs enough, it makes contact with the teeth of the ratchet ring. Since there are only 72 positions for the freewheel to be in, youll likely see 72 markings around the freehub body. I'm sure theres plenty of axle deflection when landing drops and such, but the freehub is not being pulled cockeyed as it is when under load, and apparently thats just enough to make the difference between gouging, and floating along smoothly.
    I suppose it makes sense that stamping on the pedals could put more load on the hub than hitting drops/jumps/whatever (which I guess would be also blunted by tyres and suspension). Just a little counterintuitive when you get used to DH components being built burlier than XC.

  151. #551
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    Quote Originally Posted by cerebroside View Post
    I suppose it makes sense that stamping on the pedals could put more load on the hub than hitting drops/jumps/whatever (which I guess would be also blunted by tyres and suspension). Just a little counterintuitive when you get used to DH components being built burlier than XC.
    DH components are indeed burlier. Think of jumps and drops as flexing both the freehub and hub shell together, where as mashing the pedals pulls the freehub crooked against the hub shell and ratchet ring.

  152. #552
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    Quote Originally Posted by gregnash View Post
    Untitled by Greg Fisicaro, on Flickr
    Thats exactly how mine looks. Its a 6201 shield only, behind it is a 15267 bearing.

    They used a bearing shield as a hub dust cover. Good for smart cash saving I guess.

  153. #553
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    Ah ok... that makes sense. I have not gotten around to swapping the bearings yet as I need to build myself a small bearing press. Since I am taking my time doing this wheel build-up I am just going to go ahead and swap bearings.

  154. #554
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    Hi guys, to chime in.

    Second week on the koozers, and they feel pretty great.



    The sound is really sweet, and I'm so loving the almost instant engagement.

    Feels like fixed gear that can coast.

    There is much less drag than on my old slx hubs and much less chain jumping.

    I totally hot spoiled by the massive poe.

    Feels amazing on climbs.

    And would definitely recommend them to anybody.

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  155. #555
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    Give it some more time and pull the freehub off to inspect it. After 2 weeks, its probably already damaged inside.

  156. #556
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Pivot View Post
    Give it some more time and pull the freehub off to inspect it. After 2 weeks, its probably already damaged inside.
    Will do.

    I'll have a check over soon.

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  157. #557
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    Hi all! Just wanted to jump in. I just received what I though would be the Koozer HA02N/HA04N hubset, on eBay. 6 pawl, red, and convertible. My intention was to rebuild a wheelset I am using for a steel 29er that has drop bars and doubles as a CX/Light duty road bike. I'm reusing a set of rims that are in good shape for road use.

    Surprises:

    Bought from a US shipper, and it arrived in record time! They said by 08 June and it arrived today.

    It came with conversion kit to do both QR and thru axle! I was only expecting QR.
    The hubs came labeled as XM490, not the HA02N.

    I weigh in at 185 lbs, 57 YO and way past my prime athletically so I don't think I am going to generate enough power to wreck these hubs. They look great and are way better than what I am currently running (crunchy loose ball bearing hub).

    I could not find anything when searching XM490, it always results in HA02N search result. Could these be a re-branding/re-naming of the same hub?

    Any input is helpful. I'll report on my build and test ride. If you need specs or pics, let me know.

    Dave

  158. #558
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    Did you get it from revmega? The part number doesn't really matter with Asian stuff. They'll toss out 10 part numbers for the same hub and sell it under different names.

    Its not power that wrecks them. You'll still need to monitor the hub often for wear, and you'll likely find it.

  159. #559
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    Did a 1053 ft climb over 3.5 miles. Not rolling, lots of slow low gear grinding. Far from an epic ride but it was steep in some places.

    Rear hub now makes a loud cracking noise. I'll pull it apart when its not 100f outside, but something went very wrong.

    I'm very strongly recommending people pass on this hub. Go BHS instead even if it costs a little more.

  160. #560
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Pivot View Post
    Did a 1053 ft climb over 3.5 miles. Not rolling, lots of slow low gear grinding. Far from an epic ride but it was steep in some places.

    Rear hub now makes a loud cracking noise. I'll pull it apart when its not 100f outside, but something went very wrong.

    I'm very strongly recommending people pass on this hub. Go BHS instead even if it costs a little more.
    So I would guess that when you pull the freehub off you will find the blue plastic pawl retainer has shattered. This in turn will allow the pawls to explode in the hub shell. I have gone thru 2 freehubs. I believe that the design of the freehub simply "floating" in the hub shell, coupled with inexpexsive bearings and axle make for a flexy interface prone to failure.

    I agree that, BHS hubs are more reliable as I have rebuilt this wheelset. The freehub is secured on the axle and while slightly more expensive, gives me peace of mind as my last wheelset was bullet proof.

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  161. #561
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    The blue plastic ring thing broke on the very first ride! Its a time bomb of a hub. Last time I checked I had freehub deformation from the pawls.

    I have an original bitex hub, when they were still 48pt with the circle spring. Thing still looks new. This koozer is trashed in 1/10th of a season.

  162. #562
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    Looks like they had some bad design changes with the 2016 setup. Guess mine will be a pretty desk weight now. Haven't done anything with it and I do ride hard. Maybe I will build it up for the commuter bike, who knows maybe I will talk to revmega about returning as I really don't want something to explode on me after taking the time to build the wheel up.

    Looking at actually going with something much better like a DT 350 with one of the star ratchet upgrades. The Taiwanese ones that I have on the bike currently (Moyon International) are still going strong but I have already run into an issue with sourcing a conversion kit for the front hub. Should something happen to the back hub (that already has 900 miles on it) I will probably be SOL. I know the BHS is good stuff but I want higher engagement hubs and looks like I will be paying for it too.

  163. #563
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    something creeking up on my koozer, everytime i use 32t and 11t combo something creeks i pulled out the rear wheel and install it on a different bike, different chain, and same thing happens..

    it could be the cogs or hubs, will have to check them out again

  164. #564
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    I've been using mine without the blue plastic ring. Does not seem to be an issue so far.

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  165. #565
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    Revmega was able to give me a small bad of plastic rings for five bucks or so. Might be worth asking him. Wish the plastic wasn't so brittle. Maybe they can work on that.

  166. #566
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    I think I took measurements of the blue ring when I was looking the hub over and doing initial measurements for a new wheel. I wonder if you could find a metal shim to replace? That coupled with new bearings may cause for a better hub.

  167. #567
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    Quote Originally Posted by gregnash View Post
    Looks like they had some bad design changes with the 2016 setup. Guess mine will be a pretty desk weight now. Haven't done anything with it and I do ride hard. Maybe I will build it up for the commuter bike, who knows maybe I will talk to revmega about returning as I really don't want something to explode on me after taking the time to build the wheel up.

    Looking at actually going with something much better like a DT 350 with one of the star ratchet upgrades. The Taiwanese ones that I have on the bike currently (Moyon International) are still going strong but I have already run into an issue with sourcing a conversion kit for the front hub. Should something happen to the back hub (that already has 900 miles on it) I will probably be SOL. I know the BHS is good stuff but I want higher engagement hubs and looks like I will be paying for it too.
    Bhs and dt top out at 54 poe. The standard dt upgrade is only 36pt. The dt 54t is pretty expensive!

    I'm thinking about white ind. Hubs. They're only 48t, but it's bomb proof and very very nice.

  168. #568
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    So I found I do have the measurements of the blue ring...
    33mmx2.35mmx.60mm

    And yeah the DT tops out at 54POE at an additional $100 for the kit on top of the hub.. Didnt realize that the BHS were 54POE as well, thought they were 36POE for some reason.

  169. #569
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Pivot View Post
    Give it some more time and pull the freehub off to inspect it. After 2 weeks, its probably already damaged inside.
    lol! for real? Damaged after 2 weeks? sound pretty sh1tty to me at least.
    Rule #9 // If you are out riding in bad weather, it means you are a badass. Period.

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  170. #570
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    Quote Originally Posted by gregnash View Post
    So I found I do have the measurements of the blue ring...
    33mmx2.35mmx.60mm

    And yeah the DT tops out at 54POE at an additional $100 for the kit on top of the hub.. Didnt realize that the BHS were 54POE as well, thought they were 36POE for some reason.
    Hmm. Wondering if RWC would have something like this to replace the Koozer seal, along with the bearings. Considering just replacing this before any actual ride time on this rear hub. After that the hub will be a $100 hub with better internals....just hope the pawls hold up. Anyone here using a good hub grease, if so which one?
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  171. #571
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    Quote Originally Posted by croakies View Post
    I've been using mine without the blue plastic ring. Does not seem to be an issue so far.

    Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk
    Just a suggestion based on my experiences....the blue plastic ring is what holds the pawls in place. The rubber seal is the only thing holding the free wheel in the hub shell and it is not a secure fit. Beware removing your wheel wheel as the free hub will fall off and pawls and springs will go everywhere. Kinda sucks if this happens during a trail side flat repair.

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  172. #572
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    Quote Originally Posted by car bone View Post
    lol! for real? Damaged after 2 weeks? sound pretty sh1tty to me at least.
    Hey, its $60!

    Mine was a hub swap. I didn't need spokes or labor, and I have a million nipples hanging around.

    I know not everyone builds wheels. Add in labor and spokes, some guys might be $200 into a hub swap, with a bike that they cant ride. That does suck.

    I thought id reinforce the axle and maybe create myself a custom hub that's awesome. Its turning out to have more problems than an axle will fix.

  173. #573
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    Well my hub is still holding up pretty well, despite some slight freehub body markings. And I'm torquing and mashing the absolute hell out of it.

    My lightweight buddy was not so lucky. He recently split the blue ring and spilled out the pawls and springs. Some of the springs got chewed up, and the few that remained seemed to have very little spring left in them. I lent him my old shimano freehub to use while he sorts out a repair or replacement for his original.

  174. #574
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    So from what everyone is saying it seems the main issue is the blue ring causing pawl failure that ends up taking the entire hub, not just the freehub body. Is that correct? I am working with RevMega hoping that we can get some design changes done (at least make the blue ring out of metal so it retains the pawls better). At the price point, it is worth the extra $30 to dump all new bearings into (and Enduro or DT Swiss at that) if the freehub stops exploding and taking the hub all together.

    Other design note that I gave him was to make the end caps threaded or more secure somehow to help with flex.

  175. #575
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    Quote Originally Posted by gregnash View Post
    So from what everyone is saying it seems the main issue is the blue ring causing pawl failure that ends up taking the entire hub, not just the freehub body. Is that correct? I am working with RevMega hoping that we can get some design changes done (at least make the blue ring out of metal so it retains the pawls better). At the price point, it is worth the extra $30 to dump all new bearings into (and Enduro or DT Swiss at that) if the freehub stops exploding and taking the hub all together.

    Other design note that I gave him was to make the end caps threaded or more secure somehow to help with flex.
    Greg,
    I believe, as stated previously, that it is not just the brittle blue plastic pawl retaining ring is the root of the issue. I believe that because the free hub is not secured in the hub body by a preload axle end cap, this allows the freehub to move as the entire hub, axle and frame dropouts flex under load. This movement causes the brittle blue plastic ring to break, which then allows the pawls and springs to move. This is where we have catastrophic failure.

    I believe that the flexy bearings/axle is a secondary issue but isn't the root cause. I replaced my second freehub's bearings before use and still experienced a failure within a week of riding.

    I would love to see these issues worked out as the hubs do have potential for great value.

  176. #576
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    While I would never argue against having threaded endcaps, as I think its a better design... I'm having difficulty visualizing how threaded endcaps would provide extra stiffness to the axle. A throughaxle or even a skewer should provide plenty of tension to keep the endcap from pulling away from the bearing. But I'm curious to hear your thoughts on why it could.

    I'm almost embarrassed that I haven't checked this myself yet, but is there any chance the axle is just slightly too long, and the end caps are bottoming out before the bearings are snugged up?

  177. #577
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    Quote Originally Posted by GuitsBoy View Post
    While I would never argue against having threaded endcaps, as I think its a better design... I'm having difficulty visualizing how threaded endcaps would provide extra stiffness to the axle. A throughaxle or even a skewer should provide plenty of tension to keep the endcap from pulling away from the bearing. But I'm curious to hear your thoughts on why it could.

    I'm almost embarrassed that I haven't checked this myself yet, but is there any chance the axle is just slightly too long, and the end caps are bottoming out before the bearings are snugged up?
    Greg,

    simple matter of leverage....more force on the ends of the axle. That and the fact the freehub can move. In the current design, what is actually holding the freehub tight in the hub shell? The tightening of the thru axle to the frame does nothing. In my layman's eyes, it seems the weather seal is all that holds it in place. When you look at the space between the frame and your freehub that is an area that certainly would allow the freehub to flex independently of the hub body/axle. Threaded endcaps would keep the freehub snug against the hub body and perhaps it would minimize flex and the shattering of the blue plastic pawl retainer.

    I am not an engineer but have spent some time looking at this hub trying to figure out why it keeps exploding.

    When comparing BHS hub design to the Koozer, the freehub/pawl design is similar. Let's call this a tie. However, the leaf springs on the Koozer actually seem stronger as compared to the tiny coil springs on the BHS. Edge to Koozer here. Finally, both have somewhat "fragile" pawl retaining mechanisms. BHS has a wire loop and the Koozer has the brittle blue plastic ring. Tie here as well.

    So when I compare these two hubs, both seem to have similar freehub designs, bearing quality, etc. (Note: I have read in user posts that BHS uses Enduro bearings. I have had two hubs and neither had Enduro bearings. The bearings have a red seal but are not Enduro.) In fact Koozer might have the edge due to the pawl leaf springs. The difference being a BHS freehub is secured by a threaded endcap.

    Good luck on your quality control project!

  178. #578
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    Quote Originally Posted by DudeDowne View Post
    Greg,
    I think you were responding to me, but Greg is the other guy still left in this thread.

    I have to strongly disagree with you when you say that the skewer or t/a does nothing to keep the freehub in place. The thru axle squeezes the frames dropouts together, compressing the entire stack of components between them. The T/A is pushed against the dropout, which pushes against the endcap, which pushes against the outer freehub bearing, then the freehub spacer, then the inner freehub bearing, the metal washer, the hub shell bearing, axle brearing stops, other hub shell bearing, other endcap, other dropout (or threaded nut). Everything in this stack is compressed together, and quite tightly I might add. The freehub is held against the hub shell by the force the endcap exerts, same as with a threaded endcap, except the force originates from the compression of the skewer or T/A, instead of a threaded axle.

    And even if the skewer was super super loose, and there was barely any pressure exerted on the aforementioned stack of components, the freehub still shouldn't be pulled cockeyed, since it is centered around the axle, on which the hub is also centered around.


    I think youre barking up the wrong tree with the endcaps, though I freely admit I would still prefer threaded endcaps if given a choice. I think the root of the matter comes down to two things: Sloppy tolerances, and a flexible axle.

  179. #579
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    Not sure if this will get me anywhere, but figured I give it a shot. Just emailed the seller of my hub and hoping it will wake someone (hub maker?) up over there in regards to the issues with the blue ring....


    New message to: revmega
    I just purchased this rear hub in 12 x 142. I am concerned about the blue plastic ring that secures the internal pawls. There have been reports (many) that the ring is brittle and prone to cracking and breaking, rendering the pawl mechanisms to come loose. Do you have a solution or better replacement rings available for my hub? I do not want to ride it and risk failure when I am far out on the trail. Please advise and much appreciated.
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  180. #580
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    Quote Originally Posted by GuitsBoy View Post
    I think you were responding to me, but Greg is the other guy still left in this thread.

    I have to strongly disagree with you when you say that the skewer or t/a does nothing to keep the freehub in place. The thru axle squeezes the frames dropouts together, compressing the entire stack of components between them. The T/A is pushed against the dropout, which pushes against the endcap, which pushes against the outer freehub bearing, then the freehub spacer, then the inner freehub bearing, the metal washer, the hub shell bearing, axle brearing stops, other hub shell bearing, other endcap, other dropout (or threaded nut). Everything in this stack is compressed together, and quite tightly I might add. The freehub is held against the hub shell by the force the endcap exerts, same as with a threaded endcap, except the force originates from the compression of the skewer or T/A, instead of a threaded axle.

    And even if the skewer was super super loose, and there was barely any pressure exerted on the aforementioned stack of components, the freehub still shouldn't be pulled cockeyed, since it is centered around the axle, on which the hub is also centered around.


    I think youre barking up the wrong tree with the endcaps, though I freely admit I would still prefer threaded endcaps if given a choice. I think the root of the matter comes down to two things: Sloppy tolerances, and a flexible axle.
    Well I think we can agree on the fact that something is flexing causing the freehub to get cockeyed in the hub shell. I still think the end caps are a big part of the problem. However, I have no way to verify this conclusively. It may be that there is no "one" issue but rather the sum of all the components, bearings, axles, end caps.

    Regardless, it was an interesting experiment to try these but I can see folks who don't build wheels themselves getting pretty frustrated at the time suck. As they say "Cheap, Light, Durable...pick two!"

  181. #581
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    Yeah I agree with you guys that it is more than likely the sum of a group of failed items; out of spec tolerances, crappy bearings, crappy axle body, inconsistent manufacturing, whathaveyou.

    I think that Guitsboys point about the axle body being too long could be a good indicator. I was looking at my current wheel, which is a Taiwanese made Moyon hub and they use the same O-Ring lock type for the end caps. However, to get the end off I had to use a considerable amount more force than the end caps for the Koozers. I have even watched videos of guys disassembling Hope and DT Swiss hubs that have the same "compression" style end cap but the amount of force needed to get the cap off is considerable. Wondering if a new set of O-rings that are slightly large would help hold things in there????? I think I have a set of o-ring from harbor freight that I may see if I can find a match for the end caps.

    Past that, the installation of newer, better bearings may help. Now to find a metal shim that will be able to replace the blue pawl retainer. I am going to see if I can get some better measurements tonight.

  182. #582
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    The bit about teh axle being too long means that the end caps would bottom out before they could apply pressure to the inner bearing races, leaving the bearings able to rock on the little bit of clearance required for a slip fit. Ill check mine out when I get home, but I suspect its pretty snug. I'm more interested in checking my buddies, who recently had his freehub spill its guts.

    But I dont think the O rings do anything to hold the endcaps on, theyre just dust seals. The compressive force of the skewer or axle is far far greater. Though if the endcap has a tighter fit around the axle, thats a different story, and could help eliminate a source of play.

    The pawl retainer is an issue for sure. I would really like to find a better way to keep them in their home.

    The two are separate issues, but when the two issues converge, that seems to be when the hub destroys itself. Severe flex and deflection large enough for a pawl to work its way out of its home, and wedge itself between the ratchet ring and freehub body. Ewwwwww.

    That being said, I'm working on 400 hard (for me) miles without anything more than some minor marring on the freehub body. Hope I didn't just jinx myself.

  183. #583
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Pivot View Post
    Hey, its $60!

    Mine was a hub swap. I didn't need spokes or labor, and I have a million nipples hanging around.

    I know not everyone builds wheels. Add in labor and spokes, some guys might be $200 into a hub swap, with a bike that they cant ride. That does suck.

    I thought id reinforce the axle and maybe create myself a custom hub that's awesome. Its turning out to have more problems than an axle will fix.
    Yeah i get it its cheap crapola and what can you expect? I think slx hubs are great cheap hubs though. not high poe though.

    I build wheels very seldom so i try to invest lots in all componencts that go into them and be assured its good and long lasting. Fuk i spent 6h yesterday building a rear wheel. It would have taken 6h with a sh1t hub too. So i just get good stuff from the starts and don't look back.
    I just don't thinks its worth the time to bother with the cheap stuff since its always a gamble and the bank always win in the end...
    Rule #9 // If you are out riding in bad weather, it means you are a badass. Period.

    Quote Originally Posted by iheartbicycles View Post
    Specialized sucks ass.

  184. #584
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    Quote Originally Posted by GuitsBoy View Post
    The bit about teh axle being too long means that the end caps would bottom out before they could apply pressure to the inner bearing races, leaving the bearings able to rock on the little bit of clearance required for a slip fit. Ill check mine out when I get home, but I suspect its pretty snug. I'm more interested in checking my buddies, who recently had his freehub spill its guts.

    But I dont think the O rings do anything to hold the endcaps on, theyre just dust seals. The compressive force of the skewer or axle is far far greater. Though if the endcap has a tighter fit around the axle, thats a different story, and could help eliminate a source of play.

    The pawl retainer is an issue for sure. I would really like to find a better way to keep them in their home.

    The two are separate issues, but when the two issues converge, that seems to be when the hub destroys itself. Severe flex and deflection large enough for a pawl to work its way out of its home, and wedge itself between the ratchet ring and freehub body. Ewwwwww.

    That being said, I'm working on 400 hard (for me) miles without anything more than some minor marring on the freehub body. Hope I didn't just jinx myself.

    My finding is the same as GuitsBoy. The hub failure is most probably only related to the flexing axle. Remember 3 weeks ago I added a shaft to strengthen the axle (I am using QR). Mine is still perfect. No damage at all.

    My blue plastic retaining washer was broken since day 1 and there is no impact to cycling at all.

    The original bearings in these hubs are Taiwanese bearings and they are reputable brand too.
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  185. #585
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    This is the most bizarre thread on this whole site. Many of you place no monetary value on your time, which is fine, it's your life. When my time involves long walks back to my car in my spd shoes, my rate goes up to $200 an hour, which buys me a decent hub. How was there any doubt that a $5 pos with MIM pawls and drive rings and a cast freehub would blow up? This supplier gives a bad name to many of the other chinese and Taiwanese suppliers that actually try to make a decent product.

  186. #586
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    Consider it an experiment, or a hobby even. Trying to stretch the most performance out of an inexpensive hub. Sure a few people have blown up this hub, but there are plenty who have not, especially the more casual riders among us. I hear what youre saying about the long walk back, and yes, there is risk involved, but for those on a limited bike budget for whatever the reason, its hard to find a similarly priced alternative that offers the same performance to dollar ratio, at least when the hub is working.

    I may eventually go BHS hubs, but not before finding out just how much torque I can put through these things, after a few simple mods, before they finally give up the ghost. Thats part of the fun.

  187. #587
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    Quote Originally Posted by 92gli View Post
    This is the most bizarre thread on this whole site. Many of you place no monetary value on your time, which is fine, it's your life. When my time involves long walks back to my car in my spd shoes, my rate goes up to $200 an hour, which buys me a decent hub. How was there any doubt that a $5 pos with MIM pawls and drive rings and a cast freehub would blow up? This supplier gives a bad name to many of the other chinese and Taiwanese suppliers that actually try to make a decent product.
    If you're really placing monetary value on your hobby and free time, you're missing out. Theres a lot more to it than money.

    I think ive put out a fair warning on this hub, but a little common sense goes a long way. Are you planning a 100 mile backcountry trip where you'll be miles away from any support? Yeah, skip this hub.

    I bought it because I saw problems with it. Ive got a DT 240 hub, an SLX hub, and a old bitex with tons of miles on it. They're all proven and reliable. I also have 60 bucks and can put together a wheel in an hour. You're making it out like we're cutting off toes or something. Lacing up a hub real quick isnt exactly a high risk activity.

    A lot of asian products can be slightly modified to be reliable, and they end up working amazing. Ill admit it, its not looking good for the koozer. Its got problems. Now that I understand how its failing, ill keep riding until it fails. When it goes, you can still ride it out. Wheels and modifying stuff is a hobby of mine, it was a fun experiment and im really out nothing.

    It was worth a shot some good ideas were tossed around. If you need a reliable and cheap hub, just go pickup a bitex hub from BHS. I dont mind being a guinea pig, sometimes you win, sometimes you dont.

  188. #588
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    So, I built up a couple sets of wheels with the older hubs for my boys last winter. One is 50lbs, one is 75lbs. So far, they've held up for them, but this thread is a giant monkey on my back. Any precautions I can take without spending a lot? I'd prefer to replace them rather than put any significant money into them after this thread.

  189. #589
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    Quote Originally Posted by Erock503 View Post
    So, I built up a couple sets of wheels with the older hubs for my boys last winter. One is 50lbs, one is 75lbs. So far, they've held up for them, but this thread is a giant monkey on my back. Any precautions I can take without spending a lot? I'd prefer to replace them rather than put any significant money into them after this thread.
    Erock,
    I had one freehub failure after about 1 month of riding. After reading this thread, I ordered SKF bearings for the entire hub and installed a new freehub. The replacement freehub lasted less than a couple rides before imploding.

    My conclusion, was that "flexy" bearings are not the cause, so I wouldn't put more money into the hubs. I went back to the BHS MTB270 hub and was able to reuse my spokes and nipples since the dimensions are very close. Set me back about $110.

  190. #590
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    I don't think your boys have the weight or strength to torque the freehub hard enough to flex the axle and do any damage. I wouldn't worry about any issues in the next couple years, unless its a true defect. Its mostly gorillas or dowhill huckers having problems with the koozers. They have to hold up better than Walmart hubs, which is what I was riding at 75 pounds. That's awesome you're starting them off on real equipment so soon.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

  191. #591
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    Thanks guys, apprecrate the responses. I was thinking the same thing about the BHS, I built up a set on one of my bikes and they've been great. Great news if they are similar dimension. I guess all I can do is grease them and keep my fingers crossed.


    Quote Originally Posted by GuitsBoy View Post
    I don't think your boys have the weight or strength to torque the freehub hard enough to flex the axle and do any damage. I wouldn't worry about any issues in the next couple years, unless its a true defect. Its mostly gorillas or dowhill huckers having problems with the koozers. They have to hold up better than Walmart hubs, which is what I was riding at 75 pounds. That's awesome you're starting them off on real equipment so soon.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk
    Thanks man, yeah, I've got them setup pretty well. Both are zee 1x10 clutched systems with decent forks. The 20" is 21lbs and the 24" is 22lbs, a far cry from the 30+ they both weighed stock.








  192. #592
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    So I randomly tried something tonight after thinking about the flex issue... and I think what I found was interesting. The drive side endcap does not slide completely on. I found that on mine the end cap has a "stop" step inside, grabbed the calipers and measured from the inside edge to that stop and came up with 11.4mm. Then I went and measured the exposed portion of the axle with the freehub installed and came up with the interesting part, it is BARELY 9.3mm and that is from the metal inner race of the bearing to the top of the exposed axle. So that could be part of the flex as some of you guys are feeling. Wondering if a couple mill longer axle on that side would add to the rigidity of the hub.

    And @ 92gli... like guitsboy said, consider it an experiment. While walking back to your vehicle sucks, that can happen with ANY brand. Been running a Moyon Taiwanese hub on my rear for over 2yrs now and it has been flawless, had a buddy that was running a King that imploded on him after a year. Price difference was considerable and the words coming from him were priceless on the walk back to the truck. But remember, not everyone has $200+ to drop on a single SMALL part for their bike, so we try to cut corners where we can. Sometimes there is a little extra engineering in those purchases that some of us enjoy. This is a hobby, something we do in our spare time and I bet the few that have these off their bikes because they imploded either have a spare rear or have enough funds and understanding that they can get themselves back up and running again.

    And for the record... BHS is a cast freehub, so are a LARGE majority out there. There just seems to be some slight design flaws in this hub, that if they can be corrected offer a superb price to performance ROI.

  193. #593
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    Ok guys, how about this, why not try to use a solid steel thru axle instead of the hollow one made of aluminum.
    It shouldn't be hard to get one, or make one, I think .

    EDIT:Like this one, M12(12mm) A2 Stainless Steel Cap Screw, Hexagon Socket Allen Key Bolts | eBay, with a couple of washers and a nut it should do the job, I think.

  194. #594
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Pivot View Post
    If you're really placing monetary value on your hobby and free time, you're missing out. Theres a lot more to it than money.

    I think ive put out a fair warning on this hub, but a little common sense goes a long way. Are you planning a 100 mile backcountry trip where you'll be miles away from any support? Yeah, skip this hub.

    I bought it because I saw problems with it. Ive got a DT 240 hub, an SLX hub, and a old bitex with tons of miles on it. They're all proven and reliable. I also have 60 bucks and can put together a wheel in an hour. You're making it out like we're cutting off toes or something. Lacing up a hub real quick isnt exactly a high risk activity.

    A lot of asian products can be slightly modified to be reliable, and they end up working amazing. Ill admit it, its not looking good for the koozer. Its got problems. Now that I understand how its failing, ill keep riding until it fails. When it goes, you can still ride it out. Wheels and modifying stuff is a hobby of mine, it was a fun experiment and im really out nothing.

    It was worth a shot some good ideas were tossed around. If you need a reliable and cheap hub, just go pickup a bitex hub from BHS. I dont mind being a guinea pig, sometimes you win, sometimes you dont.
    So will you be trying out any more budget hubs in the future, just for fun?

    Personally i wouldn't even bother to lace a rear up if I didn't know the hub was documented 110% rock solid and came HIGHLY recommended by everyone and their dogs. When I need to modify things at my free time i feel i'm missing out on overtime instead. I could have worked that hour overtime and gotten like 35-40€ instead. minus taxes of course. but still. when I build or machine things, it better be fuking worth it. imo.
    Rule #9 // If you are out riding in bad weather, it means you are a badass. Period.

    Quote Originally Posted by iheartbicycles View Post
    Specialized sucks ass.

  195. #595
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    You're on an SLX hub which has a super shoddy reliability record! You'll take that same risk too!

    I spent more than an hour and 60 bucks on dinner last night with my family... it cant all be about assigning a monetary value to time. Its not that outlandish to try a hub for 60 bucks. Its not like any of us took out a second mortgage to buy a few thousand of these things.

  196. #596
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Pivot View Post
    You're on an SLX hub which has a super shoddy reliability record! You'll take that same risk too!

    I spent more than an hour and 60 bucks on dinner last night with my family... it cant all be about assigning a monetary value to time. Its not that outlandish to try a hub for 60 bucks. Its not like any of us took out a second mortgage to buy a few thousand of these things.
    I'm not on slx'es even though i have at least 4-5 of them unbuilt. And for someone like 70kg they will be bombproof.

    I'm on true precision and as of today dt 240

    I was given a sun ringle whatever hub, recent production, from a black flag wheelset i think. Researched it and not even gonna build it up even though it was for free. its just not worth the hassle (for me at least).
    Rule #9 // If you are out riding in bad weather, it means you are a badass. Period.

    Quote Originally Posted by iheartbicycles View Post
    Specialized sucks ass.

  197. #597
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    Mine lasted over a year before one of the (original) freehub bearings exploded. Never had to walk out. I think I got my moneys worth out of it and don't regret trying it, though I'm probably going to replace it with a BHS MTB270 (which I was 'trying out' at the same time, somewhat more successfully).

    In terms of time expenditure it hasn't been a high maintenance component. If I didn't enjoy working on bike stuff maybe I would just pay more to buy expensive hubs and have them built up by someone else, but working on bike stuff is something I enjoy. I would definitely try another cheap, high engagement hub. Building up stuff and trying it out is fun.

  198. #598
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    RevMega has been awesome in taking my questions and accepting my feedback. Hopefully he takes it to his mfg to try and better the design of the hubs as well as the QA.

    I did find an arbor shim that meets the ID and thickness needs of the blue ring for all of $7 on amazon so will probably grab some of those (think it comes in a pack of 10 for the $7) to see how they work out. From there will be swapping out all the bearings when I get a chance. Loving the WTB i29 front with Formula hub, the new wheel feels great so will definitely be building up an i29 rear. If I could only figure out how to get the damn thing to seal tubeless.

  199. #599
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    Awesome work Mr. Nash. Please let us know how the steel shim rings work out for you.

    I agree that Matt/RevMega has been great to deal with. He happily gave me some free repair parts (blue rings) when I ordered a backup freehub, otherwise he usually only charges for shipping. Regardless, he's been great to work with, and it's been very easy for me to get spare parts. Some even arriving in under a week.

  200. #600
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    Quote Originally Posted by gregnash View Post
    RevMega has been awesome in taking my questions and accepting my feedback. Hopefully he takes it to his mfg to try and better the design of the hubs as well as the QA.

    I did find an arbor shim that meets the ID and thickness needs of the blue ring for all of $7 on amazon so will probably grab some of those (think it comes in a pack of 10 for the $7) to see how they work out. From there will be swapping out all the bearings when I get a chance. Loving the WTB i29 front with Formula hub, the new wheel feels great so will definitely be building up an i29 rear. If I could only figure out how to get the damn thing to seal tubeless.
    I just pulled mine apart this weekend and found the blue ring to be broken as well, let us know how the rings you ordered fit, as it sounds like this is going to be a common issue.
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