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    how wide a rim for 2.25 tires?

    Quick noobish question: if I'm going to run 2.25" tires, what should the internal width of the rim be? Is 20mm too narrow?

    I'm considering a DT Swiss XR331 rim build, but want to be sure it'll take 2.25" comfortably. If it matters, this is an XC rig.

    I'm sure this has been answered on here before, but I can't figure out how to search for it.

    Thanks!

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  3. #3
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    A lot of us have been running 2.25 since before the wide rim fad showed up on rims that often were ~17mm ID....(incorrect info deleted)
    Last edited by noapathy; 1 Week Ago at 04:09 PM.

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    Op, if it were me and I wasn't counting every gram for the purpose of racing, I'd take the suggestion and go for the XR391 and get good sidewall support, which will let you run lower pressures for better grip and bumps absorption. You might think, well let's split the difference and go with the 361 that's only 22,5mm IW, but then it's only 10g lighter than the 391.

    Do you require glasses and did not have them on when you looked at the specs? The XR331 is 20mm IW and the 391 is 25mm IW, that 5mm different and that's BIG.

    Quote Originally Posted by noapathy View Post
    A lot of us have been running 2.25 since before the wide rim fad showed up on rims that often were ~17mm ID. While I don't suggest going that narrow if building something new, the difference between your XR331 and the link posted for the XR391 is 1.5mm. You'll never notice that small of a difference. On the other hand, the extra ~100g you will. If you're sure you won't go wider or do a lot rougher riding, just build 'em.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx View Post
    Op, if it were me and I wasn't counting every gram for the purpose of racing, I'd take the suggestion and go for the XR391 and get good sidewall support, which will let you run lower pressures for better grip and bumps absorption. You might think, well let's split the difference and go with the 361 that's only 22,5mm IW, but then it's only 10g lighter than the 391.

    Do you require glasses and did not have them on when you looked at the specs? The XR331 is 20mm IW and the 391 is 25mm IW, that 5mm different and that's BIG.
    Oops, wrong column. I'd still run a 2.25 on it but wouldn't build a new wheel unless counting grams. Really, my preference would be a WTB Frequency Team i23/i25...built up 3 sets and they're all still doing great.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx View Post
    Op, if it were me and I wasn't counting every gram for the purpose of racing, I'd take the suggestion and go for the XR391 and get good sidewall support, which will let you run lower pressures for better grip and bumps absorption. You might think, well let's split the difference and go with the 361 that's only 22,5mm IW, but then it's only 10g lighter than the 391.

    Do you require glasses and did not have them on when you looked at the specs? The XR331 is 20mm IW and the 391 is 25mm IW, that 5mm different and that's BIG.
    Looks to me like the XR361 is actually 30g lighter than the XR391. https://www.dtswiss.com/en/products/...ountry/xr-361/
    I might go with that one, come to think of it.

  7. #7
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    22.5 or 25 IW
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    Is there any perceptible difference between 20 and 21 IW? I'm also considering a Bontrager XXX TLR rim, which specs out at the latter.

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    Bike check current XCO World Champion.

    https://www.pinkbike.com/news/bike-c...-spark-rc.html
    Both Nino and Kate are using 30mm inner rims for 2.25 tires. Like last season.

    Wheels: DT Swiss XMC 1200 Spline 30mm
    Tires: Maxxis Rekon Race 2.25", 17psi front, 18psi rear for Kate.

    how wide a rim for 2.25 tires?-111p5pb16935730.jpg

    I like XR2 Teams. 2.25 has matched to a 30mm for me since 2014. High volume and rounded tread pattern.

  10. #10
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    Don't go chasing those weight weenie weights, take the few extra grams and make sure and get yourself a 25mm IW rim and be able to run those tyres at proper trail pressures.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jumbotron View Post
    Is there any perceptible difference between 20 and 21 IW? I'm also considering a Bontrager XXX TLR rim, which specs out at the latter.
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  11. #11
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    My first 29er was an 08 Stumpjumper FSR. It came with 19mm wide rims. I built up some 30mm rims for it and liked it better. Then I built up some 35mm rims for it and with a 2.2 rear tire and a 2.35 front, the bike felt like I felt it should have when I bought it.
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    The 25-30mm inner width rims are just right in my opinion. I run the Nox Teocalli with a 2.35 front and 2.25 rear. They have a 26mm internal width.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jumbotron View Post
    Quick noobish question: if I'm going to run 2.25" tires, what should the internal width of the rim be? Is 20mm too narrow?

    I'm considering a DT Swiss XR331 rim build, but want to be sure it'll take 2.25" comfortably. If it matters, this is an XC rig.

    I'm sure this has been answered on here before, but I can't figure out how to search for it.

    Thanks!

    Don't worry about it with that width, anything between 18-25mm should be fine. 30mm and you may have the casing end up a bit wider than the side knobs (the 'bell' tire effect).
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    There's a HUGE difference between "It will work" and "it will work well", if you run a proper 2.25" tyre on anything narrower than an i22.5mm IW rim, "it will work", if you run it on an i25mm rim, it will work well and you can run the sort of pressures to have good grip, without having tyre roll/squirm.

    We ran tyres that wide on narrow rims because that's all they had, no other reason and/or we didn't know better listening to the roadie driven ideas MTBs were still being designed from. When I ran 2.25" tyres on <i20mm rims, I had to run 30> PSI to not get pinch flats and tyre roll/squirm, on i25 more like 23-25 PSI rear/20-21 PSI front, no issues.

    Quote Originally Posted by richj8990 View Post
    Don't worry about it with that width, anything between 18-25mm should be fine. 30mm and you may have the casing end up a bit wider than the side knobs (the 'bell' tire effect).
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??

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    Quote Originally Posted by richj8990 View Post
    Don't worry about it with that width, anything between 18-25mm should be fine. 30mm and you may have the casing end up a bit wider than the side knobs (the 'bell' tire effect).
    Who's this guy? Listen to squat or follow what the two current World Champions are doing? 30mm is their choice with tires designed for that width. Depending on your terrain you may want to 'take a chance' and run a 2.35 front tire on a 35mm rim.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eb1888 View Post
    Who's this guy? Listen to squat or follow what the two current World Champions are doing? 30mm is their choice with tires designed for that width. Depending on your terrain you may want to 'take a chance' and run a 2.35 front tire on a 35mm rim.
    Sorry but you are the odd man out. Comparing what pro’s use is an arm chair quarterback rookie move.

    35mm rim with a 2.35” tire ??? You are about 10mm too wide compared to non pro mortals.

    Realize wide rims are not the answer to suit everyone’s needs.

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    I'm no pro and I've ridden XCO terrain since 2014 on 30mm rims with 2.25 and 2.35 tires. If you're speaking from personal experience fine. 8ut nobody needs to be a pro to get better performance from the right mix of rim and tire at a lower pressure.
    You're someone with no time on wide rims.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by eb1888 View Post
    I'm no pro and I've ridden XCO terrain since 2014 on 30mm rims with 2.25 and 2.35 tires. If you're speaking from personal experience fine. 8ut nobody needs to be a pro to get better performance from the right mix of rim and tire at a lower pressure.
    You're someone with no time on wide rims.
    How wide do you think this kid's rims are? How about compared to BCpov?



    It isn't THAT important!

    What does Stans say about rim width?

    https://www.notubes.com/technology/wide-right

    For 2.35, Arch-Flow, more or less. That's 26mm - 29mm

    How about DT Swiss?

    https://dycteyr72g97f.cloudfront.net...WEB_ZZ_001.pdf

    DT recommends a rim width of 25-33mm for a 2.35" tire. DT goes further to say anything from 20mm-51mm is possible, and gives pressure recommendations.

    Your noob BS is tiresome.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eb1888 View Post
    I'm no pro and I've ridden XCO terrain since 2014 on 30mm rims with 2.25 and 2.35 tires. If you're speaking from personal experience fine. 8ut nobody needs to be a pro to get better performance from the right mix of rim and tire at a lower pressure.

    "You're someone with no time on wide rims.
    - NOT SO!

    Yes that is my personal experience and being someone that HAS spent time on wide rims w/ various width tires.

    You keep harping on performance relating to traction & safety . Ok lets all put 4" tires and run 10 psi of air. You do need to realize there are skilled riders who want to run just enough tire to balance traction and speed.

  20. #20
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    When someone is making a choice from scratch they don't have to only go with what's possible.
    Most guys want to get the most performance for their money.
    Just like you.
    The wheels you're building for your first build are 30mm.

    Put your own reasons out there. And stand behind them.

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    Since I started this descent into madness (interesting, though!), some closure on my end: got a good deal on a DT Swiss XR 1501 Spline One wheelset, with the XR 361 rims and 240 hubs. I'm glad that, at a minimum, y'all talked me out of 20mm rims. I figure 22.5 is a fine place to begin, and that the hubs I have are good ones, so if I ride for a while and feel like I'm not getting what I want, I can rebuild around them with a wider rim.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by eb1888 View Post
    When someone is making a choice from scratch they don't have to only go with what's possible.
    Most guys want to get the most performance for their money.
    Just like you.
    The wheels you're building for your first build are 30mm.

    Put your own reasons out there. And stand behind them.
    Unlike you, I don't presume that my decision applies to anyone but me.

    For one, I am putting much bigger tires on my 30mm rims than OP. So my whole use case is different. I also like tires with a rounder profile rather than a squarer one. So while some use a wider rim for 2.6" tires, I have chosen 30mm. That is within the manufacturer recommendations. I could run 2.35" tires if I wanted lighter and faster than 2.6, but I do not intend to go narrower. My choice is not the only one possible. Nor is yours.

    There are other mtb's in my garage with 2.35's on 30mm rims, 2.35's on 27mm rims, and 3.8's on 65mm rims. They are all different from each other. They all work. And they are also not the limits of what's possible.

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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jumbotron View Post
    Since I started this descent into madness (interesting, though!), some closure on my end: got a good deal on a DT Swiss XR 1501 Spline One wheelset, with the XR 361 rims and 240 hubs. I'm glad that, at a minimum, y'all talked me out of 20mm rims. I figure 22.5 is a fine place to begin, and that the hubs I have are good ones, so if I ride for a while and feel like I'm not getting what I want, I can rebuild around them with a wider rim.
    You will be happy with them. 22.5 is excellent for your tires and dt makes the best wheels IMO
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  24. #24
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    Those are nice wheels and a decent width to start with, should allow you to run decently low pressures with a 2.25" tyre. AFAIR the first Flows were only 22.5 IW and were a rider favourite, really let people start to experiment with tubeless and lower pressures. My first rims were I think 18 or 19 IW and as said, ran up to 2.4" tyres on them, but was far from ideal, had to run too high pressures, then moved to some XM321's and massive improvement in ability to run lower pressures and hardly a pinch flat with tubes. These says I stick to 25-27 IW rear for tyres up to 2.4" and 29-30 front up to 2.5", run the narrower one in the rear to help save the beads from being too exposed to cuts that don't seal.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jumbotron View Post
    Since I started this descent into madness (interesting, though!), some closure on my end: got a good deal on a DT Swiss XR 1501 Spline One wheelset, with the XR 361 rims and 240 hubs. I'm glad that, at a minimum, y'all talked me out of 20mm rims. I figure 22.5 is a fine place to begin, and that the hubs I have are good ones, so if I ride for a while and feel like I'm not getting what I want, I can rebuild around them with a wider rim.
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  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by keen View Post

    35mm rim with a 2.35” tire ??? You are about 10mm too wide compared to non pro mortals.
    I ran that way for the longest time. Worked fantastic.
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  26. #26
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    I run 2.35 Ikons on 29mm Nox Farlow rims, and also ran 2.6 XR2's for a while. Both are in the sweet spot for 29/30mm ID, IMO.

    On my Duroc 40 36mm rims, I've run 3.0 Rangers and the 2.6 XR2's. Again, both work great on those Durocs. I would hesitate to run the 2.35 Ikons on them, though.

    I also run both 2.35 (f) and 2.20 (r) Ikon on Nox Teocalli 26mm rims, and both work well there.
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    All depends on your terrain, basically. If you ride mainly buffed out and/or dirt trails with not many sharp rocks and such, then wider might be better, but if you've got lots of sharp rocks, the wider you go, the more exposed the sidewall is to being sliced/punctured. This is why I switched back to an i25 in the rear, put minuscule puncture right above the bead that wouldn't seal on 3 different 2.3" tyres on i29, no issue once I moved back to i25.

    Quote Originally Posted by waltaz View Post
    I run 2.35 Ikons on 29mm Nox Farlow rims, and also ran 2.6 XR2's for a while. Both are in the sweet spot for 29/30mm ID, IMO.

    On my Duroc 40 36mm rims, I've run 3.0 Rangers and the 2.6 XR2's. Again, both work great on those Durocs. I would hesitate to run the 2.35 Ikons on them, though.

    I also run both 2.35 (f) and 2.20 (r) Ikon on Nox Teocalli 26mm rims, and both work well there.
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  28. #28
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    I prefer inner diameter wheels in the 19-35c range.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jumbotron View Post
    Since I started this descent into madness (interesting, though!), some closure on my end: got a good deal on a DT Swiss XR 1501 Spline One wheelset, with the XR 361 rims and 240 hubs. I'm glad that, at a minimum, y'all talked me out of 20mm rims. I figure 22.5 is a fine place to begin, and that the hubs I have are good ones, so if I ride for a while and feel like I'm not getting what I want, I can rebuild around them with a wider rim.
    Tire pressure has an impact on traction. As you lower pressure your footprint gets bigger with more tread on the trail and more ability for your tire footprint to conform to the irregular trail surface. Your tire bounces less for more control. You are limited in how low you can go by rim hits that could damage your wheel rim as you lower the pressure. If you have a very rocky/rooty section of your trail your pressure is limited for the whole length of your trail.

    Some guys use CushCore to add padding inside the tire to protect the rim bead from bash damage while allowing lower pressure, more traction and less tire bounce.

    With wide rims as you lower the pressure to get a bigger footprint the sidewall is supported by the wider rim beads. As it gets smashed down the sidewall wrinkles like the rear tire of a dragster on acceleration. This varies because different tires have thinner or thicker sidewalls. CushCore impacts this too.

    On your 22.5mm rim the tire will look more like a lightbulb with less sidewall support for lighter 120tpi flexible sidewall tires. As you lower the pressure to get more traction the sidewall doesn't wrinkle. Instead it folds over. This can happen when you hit a rut in a curve or if you try a quick line change in a curve. The quick fold over puts some sidewall on the trail and lessens the traction of your footprint. You get a lightening fast slide out of the front with no chance to recover. Crash. When I changed from 21 to 30mm rims the amount of crashes I had like this dropped to near zero on the same trail surface.

    You can use your 22.5 rim by keeping the tire pressure up to make fold over less likely. The cost is bounce and a smaller footprint. Or you can choose heavier less flexible sidewall tires and keep the pressure up. Those usually have bigger deeper knobs for some added traction but are heavier and slower rolling.
    If you get tired of that or try for more traction by lowering your tire pressure the first thing you'll feel is a squirmy vague handling feel as the unsupported sidewall flexes back and forth. Go lower or hit those rutty or quick change situations and you can feel quick traction loss, etc.

  30. #30
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    2.25 xc type tires don't have enough traction to need wide rims to combat fold over.

  31. #31
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    https://www.trekbikes.com/us/en_US/e...-tire/p/11866/
    These do for hardpack with some loose, ime.
    When you put them on 30mm at 14psi front you get a big enough footprint for good traction with fast rolling from the smaller lower knobs. ymmv.

    how wide a rim for 2.25 tires?-p1070776.jpg

    how wide a rim for 2.25 tires?-p1070774.jpg



    These 2.25s are being used by the top XCO racers on 30mm rims. Nino and Kate. Possibly a better tire.

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    Look at that flat profile. That bike handles like a dump truck.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schulze View Post
    I prefer inner diameter wheels in the 19-35c range.
    Please define “inner diameter.”
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    Quote Originally Posted by eb1888 View Post
    Bike check current XCO World Champion.

    https://www.pinkbike.com/news/bike-c...-spark-rc.html
    Both Nino and Kate are using 30mm inner rims for 2.25 tires. Like last season.

    Wheels: DT Swiss XMC 1200 Spline 30mm
    Tires: Maxxis Rekon Race 2.25", 17psi front, 18psi rear for Kate.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	111p5pb16935730.jpg 
Views:	27 
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ID:	1241846

    I like XR2 Teams. 2.25 has matched to a 30mm for me since 2014. High volume and rounded tread pattern.
    If Im correct, this is only their setup for the Cape Epic race, not for xc races..

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schulze View Post
    Look at that flat profile. That bike handles like a dump truck.
    I was thinking the same thing.

    Also doesn't look like he leans that bike over much. Very little side knob wear. If he was trying to lean that tire over, he'd be learning what the local soil tastes like.

    Quote Originally Posted by kanetrader View Post
    If Im correct, this is only their setup for the Cape Epic race, not for xc races..
    I don't follow racing that closely so I don't know for sure.

    But you are probably correct.

    Maybe I could ask the friend of mine who just flew down there to help with the race. Or not..she probably doesn't give a shit.

  36. #36
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    Yep, worn back tire.

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