How can you not like the DHF/DHRII???- Mtbr.com
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 200 of 204
  1. #1
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    1,442

    How can you not like the DHF/DHRII???

    Heresy, I know. I'm just not sure I like them.

    Running 2.6 F/R on my Ibis HD3.

    They just feel kinda heavy and slow to me and I don't like the feel that much.

    I ride mainly in VT where we have soft dirt trails with roots and some rocks mixed in. Occasionally its dry where we have pine groves, but otherwise its decomposed earth and most damp.

    What is faster? I know Nobby Nic and Hans Dampf as I've used them on my Ripley. I really liked running the HD front and Rear on that bike.

    I ran a forekaster on the rear of my HD3 which I think I liked better than the DHRII...what else rides faster and "lighter" if not in weight?

  2. #2
    Nat
    Nat is offline
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Nat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    14,001
    2.1 WTB Nanoraptors are faster and lighter.

  3. #3
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    1,442
    Quote Originally Posted by Nat View Post
    2.1 WTB Nanoraptors are faster and lighter.
    I'm kinda worried the tire profile on my 35i rims would be compromised.

  4. #4
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    882
    How soft is soft? If soft translates into loose, then I feel DHF/DHR are still king when their knobs are able to dig in for grip.

    That said for loose over hard - if that loose is a few mm of dust and serious hardpark underneath, I'll prefer small knobs that hook into dust layer than large knobs that float over.

    Also I feel the 2.6 DHF there is enough "gap" between center and corner knobs to create a vague/drifty feel when the bike is partially leaned over. I find tires with transition knobs to work better when not in aggressive lean angles (Rekon, Ardent).

  5. #5
    mtbr member
    Reputation: jeremy3220's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Posts
    1,997
    The tread patterns were literally made for DH. Most people would probably be better off with a faster rolling tire, at least in the rear.

  6. #6
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    1,442
    Soft as in millennia of fallen decomposed leaves soft. It's basically packed down garden soil with roots and rocks. I know the DHF/DHR combo should be good for my terrain. its not a lack of grip so much as grip I don't feel like I can access. I've tried lower pressure, higher pressure. I just don't feel like I can get the bite. I don't discount rider input being an issue. I'm no expert and I may not be getting over far enough. If that is the case, then these tires are just not for me.

  7. #7
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    1,442
    Quote Originally Posted by jeremy3220 View Post
    The tread patterns were literally made for DH. Most people would probably be better off with a faster rolling tire, at least in the rear.
    Right. Which is most likely why I was enjoying the HDs, NN and Forekaster more.

    Bontrager looks interesting, but I'm not sure I get their SE/XR 3,4,5 model differences yet.

  8. #8
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Posts
    513
    DHF/R are slow and heavy as can be. Great for the bike park with lift service. Bad for just riding normal trails.

  9. #9
    mtbr member
    Reputation: PuddleDuck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    1,483
    Quote Originally Posted by WoodstockMTB View Post
    Heresy, I know. I'm just not sure I like them.

    Running 2.6 F/R on my Ibis HD3.

    They just feel kinda heavy and slow to me and I don't like the feel that much.

    I ride mainly in VT where we have soft dirt trails with roots and some rocks mixed in. Occasionally its dry where we have pine groves, but otherwise its decomposed earth and most damp.

    What is faster? I know Nobby Nic and Hans Dampf as I've used them on my Ripley. I really liked running the HD front and Rear on that bike.

    I ran a forekaster on the rear of my HD3 which I think I liked better than the DHRII...what else rides faster and "lighter" if not in weight?
    What about Forekaster 2.6 front, Rekon 2.5 rear? Or, Forekaster F & R?

  10. #10
    high pivot witchcraft
    Reputation: mtnbkrmike's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Posts
    3,288
    Right or wrong, the DHF/DHR2 combo has been the gold standard for trail bikes in my neck of the woods for some time now. The newest trend is 2.5 DHF front and rear. That said, I am running a 2.5 DHF/Aggressor combo on my hardtail this season. Jury is still out...

    I need to try the new breed of Schwalbes. Past versions have not fared well on the disintegration scale.
    2020 Kona Unit
    2019 Forbidden Druid
    2018 Kona Honzo ST 30th BDay SE
    2015 Kona Paddy Wagon Fixed Gear

  11. #11
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    1,442
    Quote Originally Posted by mtnbkrmike View Post
    Right or wrong, the DHF/DHR2 combo has been the gold standard for trail bikes in my neck of the woods for some time now. The newest trend is 2.5 DHF front and rear. That said, I am running a 2.5 DHF/Aggressor combo on my hardtail this season. Jury is still out...

    I need to try the new breed of Schwalbes. Past versions have not fared well on the disintegration scale.
    I've always liked the Schwalbes I've tried. I just don't ride big terrain very often at speed so I think the DHF/DHR are just overkill for my needs which is basically XC/Trail with some enduro-like segments mixed in. There is a LOT of pedaling and ups which was not what the DHF/DHR were designed for.

    Did a little window shopping and the Bontrager XR4 looks interesting. Also tempted to try the hans dampf again, but it's not a very fast tire.Still, always felt faster than the DHF/DHR.

    The forekaster out back was actually nice and I think I'm going to throw it back on for the time being. Straight on braking is weak, however.

  12. #12
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Streetdoctor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    2,629
    Because I like the Assegai/DHF or Onza Aquila's.
    Denver, CO

  13. #13
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    1,442
    Quote Originally Posted by Streetdoctor View Post
    Because I like the Assegai/DHF or Onza Aquila's.
    Touche

  14. #14
    mtbr member
    Reputation: One Pivot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    8,697
    I've seen military grade battleship anchors that roll faster than the minion combo. Hard pass.

    I'm digging the bonty tires lately, but nearly anything is faster than minions.

  15. #15
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Posts
    118
    Iím beginning to adhere to a similar conclusion. Though they may be the best ones and the gold standard, I think I just donít ride ďhardĒ enough to reap the benefits yet. Iíll have to work my way up there. In the meantime, Iím trying tires with transitions from center to edge. Perhaps Asegai exo next.

  16. #16
    Single(Pivot)and Happy
    Reputation: Boulder Pilot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    1,758
    WTF is a Minion? I remember a time when this was an easy question to answer. When I think of Minion's I think of the original tread designs with DH casing and super tacky or 3C rubber compound. EXO sidewalls and I do not get along. A semi-slick called a Minion? No, that's just wrong.

    Minion's may be the best choice where you ride. I have three sets for when I need 5-1/2 pounds of rubber to connect me to the trail. The other 70% of the time when I'm riding trails that do not demand me to lean over so far to take advantage of the Minion tread design, I've found Onza and Michelin to have some nice options.
    The suspension of your bike sucks if it's different than mine. Really. It sucks. Big time.

  17. #17
    mtbr member
    Reputation: targnik's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    4,970
    DHRII is an ok tire =)

    DHF's are too heavy >.<

    Pre-Addix Magic Mary is the best front tire I've ever used for All Mountain riding.

    Rear tire depends what you want... Grip = something nobbly.

    Speed = semi slick.

    'Born to ride!'
    "Mountain biking: the under-rated and drug-free antidepressant"

  18. #18
    Keep on Rockin...
    Reputation: Miker J's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Posts
    6,120
    I dig'm but yeah, you've got to be pushing the bike real hard to make use of all that grip. Otherwise they are overkill.

  19. #19
    Elitest thrill junkie
    Reputation: Jayem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    32,174
    Back in the early and mid 2000s we experimented with tire sizes from 2.6-2.8. Some of us even went up to 3.0. After running tires extensively on many surfaces, most of us DHers came to the conclusion that anything above 2.5 was simply slower. It didn't help when Maxxis "downsized" their tires and all of a sudden 2.3s seemed like 2.0s, but otherwise the largest I'll go on the front these days is 2.5 and the largest on the rear around 2.35-2.4. Ideally, I keep it staggered. All these "fat" tire trends, 2.6, 2.8, 3.0, etc., are slower in the summer time. A 2.7 Minion has traction for days, no doubt, but as you note, it'll roll like crap. I had to run a DHF 2.3 on the rear for the last half-season or so because when I put it up front, it wasn't wide enough to turn correctly with my rims. On the rear it worked great as far as turning...but rolling resistance was another matter. Like glue to the trail/pavement. Just replaced it with a HR and the difference is dramatic.

    There seems to be a fairly narrow range of tire sizes for me where I have optimal handling and speed. IME, the harder you ride, the more you need the skinnier tire to go faster, to a limit of course, you can't go too small, but too large also doesn't help. As an example, I ran 2.5 minions F and R on my 29er Enduro rig (back when I had it), that was kind of a trainwreck, just too heavy to turn the bike at speed, the bike wanted to keep going straight and I had to slow down earlier and more than the other riders, then pedal harder out of the turn to catch up. One time I forgot to switch them out before a trail-ride and it was painful, as the ride included a significant pavement portion. That's one of the reason I moved away from 29er enduro bikes, because with decent rubber (casing) there's just too much tire mass IME.

    Minions are the gold standard for traction, not rolling resistance. In reasonable sizes, they are fine, but they are far from my XC choice. They go on my aggressive bike and that one is for rocking the DHs.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  20. #20
    Freezer
    Reputation: mlloyd007's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    355
    The 2.6 DHF and DHRII are slow rolling tires, even in the lighter versions. The rolling resistance is substantial, and not especially pedal-friendly. They're great for Sedona, Moab and other places where you want the volume and traction, but they're traction overkill for where you're riding. I had them on my Pivot Mach 5.5 in Norcal and they made the bike sluggish on any pedaly ride. I swapped them out for 2.3 versions and it made a significant difference, even though the weight was nearly the same. Try a 2.5WT DHF in front and a 2.4WT Rekon or even Ardent Race in the rear. That's what I have on my SB4.5 and it's a great combination of fast rolling rear and grippy front.

  21. #21
    No Clue Crew
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    6,486
    Probably mostly because they're 2.6. The modern "classic" people talk about, me included, would be the 2.5/2.4 combo. Actually quite a bit of difference from the 2.6 tires.

    Or maybe you just don't like 'em. No big deal, move on to something that works better.

    Lately I've been running a Trail King front/SE4 rear combo on one bike and it's doing well here in Phoenix.
    Just like a raindrop, I was born to fall.

  22. #22
    The White Jeff W
    Reputation: jeffw-13's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    5,640
    Racing Ralph in the back - Nobby Nic in the front.
    No moss...

  23. #23
    Hitching a ride
    Reputation: Schulze's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    3,184
    Maxxis has a winning tread pattern with these tires but I prefer a 120tpi casing, so I have never paid money for a DHR. Currently on 2.6 Goma rear, XR5 front and it's a good all around combo for dry riding. The XR5 rubber is similar to the Dual with 62/50, so not really a wet weather tire, but I have the luxury of not needing to deal with that.

  24. #24
    mtbr member
    Reputation: One Pivot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    8,697
    There are plenty of tires that measure larger than 2.6.

  25. #25
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Streetdoctor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    2,629
    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    IME, the harder you ride, the more you need the skinnier tire to go faster, to a limit of course, you can't go too small, but too large also doesn't help. As an example, I ran 2.5 minions F and R on my 29er Enduro rig (back when I had it), that was kind of a trainwreck, just too heavy to turn the bike at speed, the bike wanted to keep going straight and I had to slow down earlier and more than the other riders, then pedal harder out of the turn to catch up. One time I forgot to switch them out before a trail-ride and it was painful, as the ride included a significant pavement portion. That's one of the reason I moved away from 29er enduro bikes, because with decent rubber (casing) there's just too much tire mass IME.
    Lol this is horrible information. Stick to XC please.
    Denver, CO

  26. #26
    mtbr member
    Reputation: jeremy3220's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Posts
    1,997
    These discussions always get silly. Anyone with a DHF/DHR2 on their DH bike is running a 2.5 or 2.4. It doesn't matter what you want to run on your trail bike.

  27. #27
    mtbr member
    Reputation: riyadh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Posts
    110
    I have tried various Hi rollers, minions, DH maxxis tyres, and just cant come right with them.
    I have and love the Continental De Kaiser as well as the wtb trailboss. The WTB convict up front is nice and aggresive. The magic mary is also very good. I have tried the Hans Dampf, a very very nice tyre, and works well in loose sandy type terrain. I have heard that the Assegai is pretty good and Spez tyres.

  28. #28
    Elitest thrill junkie
    Reputation: Jayem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    32,174
    Quote Originally Posted by Streetdoctor View Post
    Lol this is horrible information. Stick to XC please.
    Maybe you can stick to your tales of broken Yetis? Big tires are slow.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  29. #29
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Streetdoctor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    2,629
    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    Maybe you can stick to your tales of broken Yetis? Big tires are slow.
    Nice edit. What DH races are you winning? I didn't know DH was even a thing anymore in the US.... I can't remember the last time I've seen anyone on the podium with a non-2.5 front in DH or Enduro. Got any pics? I'd like to remember the 90's.

    The "2.5's are too heavy to turn" comment is specifically what I was commenting on being complete horseshit. I'll wait though, I've got a lot of time today and this is a good break from the Yeti forum.
    Denver, CO

  30. #30
    mtbr member
    Reputation: MJW75's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Posts
    136
    Try Magic Mary on the front and Hans Dampf or Nobby Nic on the rear.
    Yeti SB130LR Turq Series Custom Build

  31. #31
    mtbr member
    Reputation: MJW75's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Posts
    136
    Quote Originally Posted by Streetdoctor View Post
    I've got a lot of time today and this is a good break from the Yeti forum.
    Thank god!
    Yeti SB130LR Turq Series Custom Build

  32. #32
    mtbr member
    Reputation: jeremy3220's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Posts
    1,997
    Quote Originally Posted by Streetdoctor View Post
    I can't remember the last time I've seen anyone on the podium with a non-2.5 front in DH or Enduro. Got any pics? I'd like to remember the 90's.
    Bruni was on 27.5x2.3 Buthchers last year and won World's. It looks like he's on blacked out 29" Minions this year though so 2.5/2.4.

  33. #33
    Bodhisattva
    Reputation: The Squeaky Wheel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    10,706
    I still use a 2.5 WT DHF 27.5 as a front tire. For the most part, front tire "drag" doesn't bother me and I need an aggressive front treat to handle loose blow-out Colorado conditions. I have an Assegai waiting in the wings for a test drive and have my eye also on the Kenda Hellkat and the new WTB Verdict for front use.


    But I've moved away from aggressive knobby rear tires in favor of lower profile treads recently. I ran 2.3 tires for years and felt like I needed the knobs for traction. But with wider 2.4-2.6 rear treads, I've found that I can use lower profile tires that still offer grip due to surface area but can reduce rolling resistance considerably.

    Currently, I'm running a Bontrager SE4 2.4x27.5 on the rear and digging it. It makes my bike feel a lot faster than an aggressor, DHF or DHR2 in the rear.

    To the OP, I live in Colorado where things are real loose. I previously lived in Vermont and rode Waterbury/Stowe quite a bit. I think you could get definitely get away with a less aggressive rear for VT loam which tends to be grippy dirt.

  34. #34
    Elitest thrill junkie
    Reputation: Jayem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    32,174
    Quote Originally Posted by Streetdoctor View Post
    Nice edit. What DH races are you winning? I didn't know DH was even a thing anymore in the US.... I can't remember the last time I've seen anyone on the podium with a non-2.5 front in DH or Enduro. Got any pics? I'd like to remember the 90's.

    The "2.5's are too heavy to turn" comment is specifically what I was commenting on being complete horseshit. I'll wait though, I've got a lot of time today and this is a good break from the Yeti forum.
    2.5 was too fat on the rear on my 29er, massive rolling and turning resistance. 2.5 isnít too fat up front generally because rolling resistance is a fraction of the rear, but but heavy 29er tires make for lots of gyroscopic rigidity. Hell, I just bought a 2.5 DHF. I can say that by moving to a 27.5 Enduro setup with staggered tires bumped me up to 2nd in the Alyeska Enduro, but that was two years ago, didnít do it or DH races last year due to time constraints, but I did set a few KOMs last week of it makes you feel better? You do realize itís possible to be faster on something other than your Scott?

    You are predicating your position on an assumption that Iím advocating against 2.5 front tires. Check my original post. Reading comprehension.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  35. #35
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Streetdoctor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    2,629
    .... again, nice edit.
    Denver, CO

  36. #36
    Elitest thrill junkie
    Reputation: Jayem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    32,174
    Quote Originally Posted by Streetdoctor View Post
    .... again, nice edit.
    I try to include pertinent material as I think of it.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  37. #37
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Streetdoctor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    2,629
    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    Back in the early and mid 2000s we experimented with tire sizes from 2.6-2.8. Some of us even went up to 3.0. After running tires extensively on many surfaces, most of us DHers came to the conclusion that anything above 2.5 was simply slower. It didn't help when Maxxis "downsized" their tires and all of a sudden 2.3s seemed like 2.0s, but otherwise the largest I'll go on the front these days is 2.5 and the largest on the rear around 2.35-2.4. Ideally, I keep it staggered. All these "fat" tire trends, 2.6, 2.8, 3.0, etc., are slower in the summer time. A 2.7 Minion has traction for days, no doubt, but as you note, it'll roll like crap. I had to run a DHF 2.3 on the rear for the last half-season or so because when I put it up front, it wasn't wide enough to turn correctly with my rims. On the rear it worked great as far as turning...but rolling resistance was another matter. Like glue to the trail/pavement. Just replaced it with a HR and the difference is dramatic.

    There seems to be a fairly narrow range of tire sizes for me where I have optimal handling and speed. IME, the harder you ride, the more you need the skinnier tire to go faster, to a limit of course, you can't go too small, but too large also doesn't help. As an example, I ran 2.5 minions F and R on my 29er Enduro rig (back when I had it), that was kind of a trainwreck, just too heavy to turn the bike at speed, the bike wanted to keep going straight and I had to slow down earlier and more than the other riders, then pedal harder out of the turn to catch up. One time I forgot to switch them out before a trail-ride and it was painful, as the ride included a significant pavement portion. That's one of the reason I moved away from 29er enduro bikes, because with decent rubber (casing) there's just too much tire mass IME.

    Minions are the gold standard for traction, not rolling resistance. In reasonable sizes, they are fine, but they are far from my XC choice. They go on my aggressive bike and that one is for rocking the DHs.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    I try to include pertinent material as I think of it.
    lol. Whatever you say man. Your initial post just said 2.5ís were big and slow. In Colorado almost everyone competitive is running a 2.4 or 2.5 on the back. I guess it may not be necessary in some parts of the country. I know most of the EWS guys run them front and back as well depending on conditions. Still waiting on that elusive DH race podium photo...
    Denver, CO

  38. #38
    Hitching a ride
    Reputation: Schulze's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    3,184
    Well we know that larger casing tires don't increase rolling resistance so it must be some other factor that makes them slower. I feel more secure on a 2.6 vs 2.4 so I ride more freely and probably faster, thought I don't race downhill.

  39. #39
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Chuch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    656
    Been a fan for a while of the mentioned combo but for summer I just put on the Rekon 2.4 on the back and on first ride...holy Sh^t! This thing is like Velcro, turns like a beast and rolls fast. I think its over 150g lighter as well. Tellin ya....don't sleep on this thing.
    Santa Cruz HT2

  40. #40
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    1,442
    Quote Originally Posted by jeffw-13 View Post
    Racing Ralph in the back - Nobby Nic in the front.
    Racing ralph won't have enough grip or braking in our dirt here.

  41. #41
    mtbr member
    Reputation: One Pivot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    8,697
    Maybe I'm alone in this sentiment, but if I run big crazy grippy tires, I'm just braking more for my riding buddy in front. But then im dragging them down on the climbs.

    Total opposite of EWS. I do care about the time going up, but less so about going down. I need enough grip to not wash out and be confident, but I'm already on the slower end of my group climbing.

    Going past about 2500ft in a ride and I start to really feel the tires. I know some of you do 10k ft on dhr's, but I'll pass. That sucks.

  42. #42
    Bodhisattva
    Reputation: The Squeaky Wheel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    10,706
    Quote Originally Posted by One Pivot View Post
    Maybe I'm alone in this sentiment, but if I run big crazy grippy tires, I'm just braking more for my riding buddy in front. But then im dragging them down on the climbs.

    Total opposite of EWS. I do care about the time going up, but less so about going down. I need enough grip to not wash out and be confident, but I'm already on the slower end of my group climbing.

    Going past about 2500ft in a ride and I start to really feel the tires. I know some of you do 10k ft on dhr's, but I'll pass. That sucks.
    I'm with you. Which is why I've gone to lower profile, wide rear tires.

    But big grippy front tires don't bother me.

  43. #43
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    1,442
    Quote Originally Posted by One Pivot View Post
    Maybe I'm alone in this sentiment, but if I run big crazy grippy tires, I'm just braking more for my riding buddy in front. But then im dragging them down on the climbs.

    Total opposite of EWS. I do care about the time going up, but less so about going down. I need enough grip to not wash out and be confident, but I'm already on the slower end of my group climbing.

    Going past about 2500ft in a ride and I start to really feel the tires. I know some of you do 10k ft on dhr's, but I'll pass. That sucks.
    You pretty much summed it up for me. You mentioned riding Bontys lately. What are you on? I am about to pull the trigger on some XR4s.

  44. #44
    Bodhisattva
    Reputation: The Squeaky Wheel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    10,706
    Quote Originally Posted by WoodstockMTB View Post
    You pretty much summed it up for me. You mentioned riding Bontys lately. What are you on? I am about to pull the trigger on some XR4s.
    I love the SE4 as a rear. I haven't tried it as a front, nor have I tried any of the XR series. But the SE4 is wide, rolls well, has great sidewalls and lots of supportive side knobs to compliment the minion side knobs. The center tread is less beefy than a Minion, so less maximal forward/braking traction but more than enough to get the job done.

  45. #45
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    1,442
    Quote Originally Posted by jeffw-13 View Post
    Racing Ralph in the back - Nobby Nic in the front.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Squeaky Wheel View Post
    I love the SE4 as a rear. I haven't tried it as a front, nor have I tried any of the XR series. But the SE4 is wide, rolls well, has great sidewalls and lots of supportive side knobs to compliment the minion side knobs. The center tread is less beefy than a Minion, so less maximal forward/braking traction but more than enough to get the job done.
    Got it. read up a but on the XR vs SE. Makes sense. A bit like the double defense Schwalbes I use to use on the rear. I'm thinking 2.6 XR4 Front & 2.4 SE4 Rear at the point. Not sure I like the feel of that fatter tire in the back.

  46. #46
    mtbr member
    Reputation: One Pivot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    8,697
    I did XR3 for a rear, and I'm still on the fence deciding if I should have just gone XR4.

    But I still need some more miles on it. Its FAST. I didnt expect it to be such a roller. I do want something fast, but I think I could have gone XR4 and still been satisfied with the speed and enjoyed more grip. I thought an XR4 would be approaching DHR/HR levels of draggyness, but considering how the 3 works I doubt thats the case.

    The XR casing is sort of firm. It replaced an exo ardent and I think its similar. Works for me, but if your common ride is nasty sharp stuff the SE makes sense.

  47. #47
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Gman086's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Posts
    4,657
    Quote Originally Posted by Streetdoctor View Post
    Nice edit. What DH races are you winning? I didn't know DH was even a thing anymore in the US.... I can't remember the last time I've seen anyone on the podium with a non-2.5 front in DH or Enduro. Got any pics? I'd like to remember the 90's.

    The "2.5's are too heavy to turn" comment is specifically what I was commenting on being complete horseshit. I'll wait though, I've got a lot of time today and this is a good break from the Yeti forum.
    You guys are killin' me, LOL! Here's a pic from yesteryear with my M1 and the ol' Nokian Gazzolodi 3.0 on front... LMAO! Slowest tire EVER! The ONLY reason I got it was because I thought my 2.5 Intense FRO's had let me down (had a BAD trail surfing day). Turns out the side knobs were stripped off a third of the way around on one side (my crash side, duh)!!! Went back to 2.5"s again and was WAY faster. FRO up front, Intense World Cup FRO rear - that was a FUREEAKY fast combo but the tires were literally toast after a weekend of park riding!

    As to the OP's question, yes and I've been saying this for some time now... TOO MUCH TIRE for standard trail riding. Even just swapping to an Aggressor rear is a huge improvement. Also I rode a Ripmo with 2.5 DHF front and 2.5 Aggressor rear and it was noticeably slower than the SB130 I rode back-to-back with same front tire and a 2.3 rear Aggressor. I'll admit that I WAS surprised by that result. Moral of the story... front tire feel free to stick with 2.5 and even an aggressive tread but rear tire for trail use? I'd go 2.3 or 2.4 with a faster tread design all day any day. I'll quantify that tho... I'm 180 lbs and a rider over 200 lbs may be better served on a 2.5 rear just to keep them from folding over so much when really stuffing corners; rim width will play a part as well.

    Have FUN!

    G MAN
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails How can you not like the DHF/DHRII???-grouppicture-024.jpg  

    "There's two shuttles, one to the top and one to the hospital" I LOVE this place!!!

  48. #48
    mtbr member
    Reputation: noosa2's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    1,836
    I love my 29x3.0" DHF up front. Being old and slow and riding trails that are way beyond my skill set means that I need all the help I can get to plow over trail debris. I've tried several rear tires over the last 2 years ranging from a 3.0" DHR II to a couple of 2.4" tires. Going back to the 3" DHR for on bike and going to try a 2.6" XR4 on the other...but love that big slow tire upfront.

  49. #49
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Posts
    2,166
    Quote Originally Posted by Streetdoctor View Post
    Because I like the Assegai/DHF or Onza Aquila's.
    How does the DHF pair in the rear with the Assegai. DHR2 doesn't come in DD 2.4 29er.

  50. #50
    Trail Gnome
    Reputation: Dark Meat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    3,984
    Quote Originally Posted by Streetdoctor View Post
    lol. Whatever you say man. Your initial post just said 2.5ís were big and slow. In Colorado almost everyone competitive is running a 2.4 or 2.5 on the back. I guess it may not be necessary in some parts of the country. I know most of the EWS guys run them front and back as well depending on conditions. Still waiting on that elusive DH race podium photo...
    Skinny rims on Bruniís bike, with 2.3 Specialized tires...Amaury is on Schwalbe 2.35 tires; maybe itís because they are French???
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails How can you not like the DHF/DHRII???-680b6b49-ac34-497e-be32-ac8a4d804197.jpg  

    How can you not like the DHF/DHRII???-e1fa53e8-5b22-44c6-b13f-75ea3b55d9f9.jpeg  


  51. #51
    high pivot witchcraft
    Reputation: mtnbkrmike's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Posts
    3,288
    I should have made this clear in my post above.

    I run a 2.3 DHF/DHR2 combo (not 2.5s or 2.6s) on my full suspension trail bike. I have tried a 2.5./2.4 combo more than once and have always actually preferred and gone back to the 2.3s.

    For my hardtail, I run a 2.5 DHF/Aggressor combo, only because I feel like the extra cush may help at least a little bit to reduce the wear and tear on my body.

    2.3s on my full suspension bike are more than enough for me. Maybe it's because I am French Canadian?
    2020 Kona Unit
    2019 Forbidden Druid
    2018 Kona Honzo ST 30th BDay SE
    2015 Kona Paddy Wagon Fixed Gear

  52. #52
    Up In Smoke
    Reputation: Train Wreck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    1,864
    DH guys on 2.3's and Nino on 2.4's...what is this world coming to?

  53. #53
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    6,762
    Quote Originally Posted by One Pivot View Post
    I did XR3 for a rear, and I'm still on the fence deciding if I should have just gone XR4.

    But I still need some more miles on it. Its FAST. I didnt expect it to be such a roller. I do want something fast, but I think I could have gone XR4 and still been satisfied with the speed and enjoyed more grip. I thought an XR4 would be approaching DHR/HR levels of draggyness, but considering how the 3 works I doubt thats the case.

    The XR casing is sort of firm. It replaced an exo ardent and I think its similar. Works for me, but if your common ride is nasty sharp stuff the SE makes sense.
    I'm trying a 2.35" XR3 (TI) on the back, with MM 2.35 front. Waiting for the snow to melt so I can get some rides in...

  54. #54
    high pivot witchcraft
    Reputation: mtnbkrmike's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Posts
    3,288
    Quote Originally Posted by fsrxc View Post
    I'm trying a 2.35" XR3 (TI) on the back, with MM 2.35 front. Waiting for the snow to melt so I can get some rides in...
    Sent you a PM on conditions. In short, green light on Moose, Canmore and Banff. West Bragg is good to go this weekend.
    2020 Kona Unit
    2019 Forbidden Druid
    2018 Kona Honzo ST 30th BDay SE
    2015 Kona Paddy Wagon Fixed Gear

  55. #55
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Streetdoctor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    2,629
    Quote Originally Posted by Cerberus75 View Post
    How does the DHF pair in the rear with the Assegai. DHR2 doesn't come in DD 2.4 29er.
    Really well, the intermediate knobs on the Assegai make it pretty hard to break loose while the DHF is a lot easier to slide but still has large side knobs when you really get it laid over. This works real well for loose over hard in areas like Colorado, NM, and Utah. Where there is real dirt, tire width doesn't come in to play as much (like the above posted DH bikes).
    Denver, CO

  56. #56
    Keep on Rockin...
    Reputation: Miker J's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Posts
    6,120
    The challenge...

    There is probably not a single more "debateable" issue in my mind in terms of spec'ing a bike - which tires to use... the gripper or the fast roller.

    Of course you'd want the right tool for the job and likely end up with a tire with just barely enough grip for your trails. But not only do trail conditions change, but most of us ride very different conditions on any given ride.

    So, the two things that always draw me back to the grippy tire, rather than the fast roller, are cornering and climbing grip.

    There are two things I always find myself testing myself on many times each ride. Can I take this corner with no brake, and can I make this tech climb? Almost never do I find myself saying, let's see if I can get from point A to B faster. Yeah, I really dig the feel of a fast rolling tire but not as much as I dig railing an off camber, slick, chunky corner with NO brake ! That makes me squeal - in a good way. Clearing a tech climb that almost no one else can - f0ck yeah !. Get from point A to B a few seconds or even minutes faster - neat, at best. When I do get on buffed out single track or a dirt road connector I do dislike the feel of a draggy tire - but guess what, we've got so little of that its almost a non-issue.

    There are plenty of spots where I ride, either trail riding or full on DH where if you loose traction on a turn there are consequences. Having your head hang way out in front while you weight the outside grip/bar... if that tire slips out you go down hard. We don't have much of the loose over hard pack with its controlled drifts (not that I've ever got very good at controlling drifts) but we have slick, damp rocks and roots where once you loose grip its all over. Its like an all or nothing thing.

    I've tried, really tried, to use less tire than a DHF up front. But letting it all hang out on a sketchy corner with any less tire - well I'm just not tough enough to do that. On my DH rig I've gone as far as even move on over to an Assegai, which is a step up in grip from a DHF (IMO). Like a Magic Mary that lives longer than a day.

    2.3 vs 2.4 vs 2.5 vs 2.6

    Not sure what works for everyone else, and discounting that one size may get you from point A to B a few seconds faster, but 2.3 has been out for me for some time. The 2.4 WT flavor in a fast rolling tread, like a Maxxis Rekon WT is a decent rear trail tire but about the least aggressive I'd go with. Removing trail chatter, which IMO, lets me ride fast and longer doesn't happen with 2.3" tires. Its only when I'm near the 2.5" tire that I can drop the psi below 25 confidently. Sidewall support from something like a Maxxis 2.5" WT is good and these make nice rear tires, but the casing is a bit slow rolling. A 2.6" up front has worked well for me if not riding too aggressively. They don't have much sidewall support but they are excellent for taking out trail chatter up front.

    Our trail riding is rarely super high speed. Speed is often limited by traction issues and tight turns, trees, and other trail obstacles. So, what works for me may not work for you.

  57. #57
    mtbr member
    Reputation: simenf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    745
    Nice summary, Miker J.

    It sounds like weíre on similar type of terrain. I use an On-One Chunky Monkey 2.4 trail extreme up front (wildly underrated tyre), but as this desnít come in any wider size, i plan to go DHF 2.6 front with new bike.

    Rear I am on Maxxis Ardent 2.4. This works fine as a rear, but again, no 2.6, so probably going for Aggressor or the less aggressive Rekon when drier.

  58. #58
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Posts
    169
    Finally this season im trying the DHF/DHR2 combo (both 3C Maxx Terra EXO+) that everyone raving about. So far they are nice, i've noticed they're less sticky/rolling faster (nicer on the climbs) compared to my favorite combo (Magic Mary soft/Hans Dampf soft), but its still too early to make decisions, need more riding hours in different conditions, spacial descending, where the grip really counts.

    The only thing i dont like about them that they're not true to size, on 30mm ID rim the DHF 2.5WT is 62mm (2.44in) and the DHR2 2.4WT is 59mm (2.32in)...

    Other Maxxis tire i would like to try is the new Assegai (3C Maxx Terra EXO+) when it will be available. I think it will be more close to Magic Mary then the DHF up front.

    That been said, did someone tried the Magic Mary as a rear tire?

  59. #59
    mtbr member
    Reputation: simenf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    745
    How much grip do you really need out back?

    It is handy to let the rear break traction before the front. And to be able to pedal the bike forwards.

  60. #60
    Hitching a ride
    Reputation: Schulze's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    3,184
    Some of these guys think that when they're white knuckling a downhill and grabbing their rear brake, if it skids a bit then they must have gotten let down and need more grip in the rear.

  61. #61
    mtbr member
    Reputation: jeremy3220's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Posts
    1,997
    Quote Originally Posted by simenf View Post
    How much grip do you really need out back?

    It is handy to let the rear break traction before the front. And to be able to pedal the bike forwards.
    Depends on the terrain. On normal trails at normal trail speeds, not that much. When it's so steep you're starting to lock up the front tire under braking then you need a lot of rear tire.

  62. #62
    mtbr member
    Reputation: simenf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    745
    If itís so steep youíre already locking up the front, your rear tyre isnít going to make much difference at all better pray and hold on!

  63. #63
    mtbr member
    Reputation: jeremy3220's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Posts
    1,997
    Quote Originally Posted by simenf View Post
    If itís so steep youíre already locking up the front, your rear tyre isnít going to make much difference at all better pray and hold on!
    That's why the DHR2 is designed the way it is and why you'll see it at the front of some of the WC DH racers' bikes.

  64. #64
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    1,442
    Bontrager SE4 2.4 too narrow for Ibis 742 rim? I'm thinking outer edge "OK." They haven't shipped so I can still switch to a 2.6, but would rather not.

  65. #65
    Bodhisattva
    Reputation: The Squeaky Wheel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    10,706
    Quote Originally Posted by WoodstockMTB View Post
    Bontrager SE4 2.4 too narrow for Ibis 742 rim? I'm thinking outer edge "OK." They haven't shipped so I can still switch to a 2.6, but would rather not.
    I can't say for sure. My rim is 31 ID and the SE4 profile is perfect. I'm not sure how much that 35mm ID on the Ibis rim would affect the profile.

    If you are running a wider front tire to match, then I don't see the downside of going with the 2.6

  66. #66
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    1,442
    Quote Originally Posted by The Squeaky Wheel View Post
    I can't say for sure. My rim is 31 ID and the SE4 profile is perfect. I'm not sure how much that 35mm ID on the Ibis rim would affect the profile.

    If you are running a wider front tire to match, then I don't see the downside of going with the 2.6
    Thanks. Looks like they just shipped this AM...so stuck with it unless I want to return. I have a Forecaster I can throw on there, but thinking the 2.4 will brake better in our looser soil. The forecaster really struggles straight on at speed in loose soil downhill.

  67. #67
    Hitching a ride
    Reputation: Schulze's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    3,184
    Quote Originally Posted by Miker J View Post

    2.3 vs 2.4 vs 2.5 vs 2.6

    Not sure what works for everyone else, and discounting that one size may get you from point A to B a few seconds faster, but 2.3 has been out for me for some time.
    .
    There's a lot of physics here and variables, including rider weight. I think ground pressure and contact patch dimensions are a big factor, and that's going to be a function of rider weight and tire width. If a rider of constant weight goes to a larger tire, he will drop the pressure to maintain constant casing tension, which increases contact patch size and of course decreases ground pressure. So where his lugs used to punch into the dirt and hook up quite well, they now skitter across and he goes back to the narrower tire. But other riders on different terrain won't notice this and may get more traction out of the bigger tire.

    It's just a theory, let's not get too triggered over it.

  68. #68
    mtbr member
    Reputation: MSU Alum's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    4,091
    Quote Originally Posted by WoodstockMTB View Post
    I'm kinda worried the tire profile on my 35i rims would be compromised.
    I would look for some 15 mm inner width rims and stick IRC Mythos on them front and back. The 2.1 comes in at a respectable 1.95 at 45 psi, where I run them. They're the cat's meow.

  69. #69
    mtbr member
    Reputation: MSU Alum's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    4,091
    Quote Originally Posted by mtnbkrmike View Post
    Right or wrong, the DHF/DHR2 combo has been the gold standard for trail bikes in my neck of the woods for some time now. The newest trend is 2.5 DHF front and rear. That said, I am running a 2.5 DHF/Aggressor combo on my hardtail this season. Jury is still out...

    I need to try the new breed of Schwalbes. Past versions have not fared well on the disintegration scale.
    A few months ago I cast aspersions on someone who wanted to put a 2.6 DHF/2.5 Aggressor on a Giant Trance Pro 29 1....and here I am, now running that exact combo!

    I put them on for Moab, and then put my favorite (29x2.35 Nobby Nics in the Addix flavor) on front and back for local Salt Lake/Park City riding. I recently put the DHF/AGG back on to head south and ended up biking the Bonneville Shoreline trail the other day (9.1 miles and 2050 feet of climbing on one section) and set a PR on that climb, using that tire combo....at fairly low pressure.

    I was pretty blown away, but I think I may be a believer. This summer, when the climbs top 4000 feet of climbing in 20+ miles, I may go back, just to lose weight but man, they rolled pretty nice and the downhill and turning grip was fantastic.

  70. #70
    Keep on Rockin...
    Reputation: Miker J's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Posts
    6,120
    Quote Originally Posted by MSU Alum View Post
    A few months ago I cast aspersions on someone who wanted to put a 2.6 DHF/2.5 Aggressor on a Giant Trance Pro 29 1....and here I am, now running that exact combo!
    .
    Ha. On my recent Trance 29 build I started on less tire up front and ended up on the DHF 2.6. Back end has a Rekon 2.4 WT but within 4 rides I've already torn the sidewall, so am thinking about the Aggressor in a 2.5. Sounds like its rolling pretty well for you? Wonder if the casing on the Aggressor is much different than the Rekon WT? Pretty sure it is.

  71. #71
    mtbr member
    Reputation: MSU Alum's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    4,091
    Quote Originally Posted by Miker J View Post
    Ha. On my recent Trance 29 build I started on less tire up front and ended up on the DHF 2.6. Back end has a Rekon 2.4 WT but within 4 rides I've already torn the sidewall, so am thinking about the Aggressor in a 2.5. Sounds like its rolling pretty well for you? Wonder if the casing on the Aggressor is much different than the Rekon WT? Pretty sure it is.
    Probably. Being a collector of tires, I do have a pair of 2.6 Rekons that I'll be trying out once the monsoon ends and the snow melts.

  72. #72
    Maxxis cult follower
    Reputation: richj8990's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Posts
    1,837
    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    IME, the harder you ride, the more you need the skinnier tire to go faster, to a limit of course, you can't go too small, but too large also doesn't help. As an example, I ran 2.5 minions F and R on my 29er Enduro rig (back when I had it), that was kind of a trainwreck, just too heavy to turn the bike at speed, the bike wanted to keep going straight and I had to slow down earlier and more than the other riders, then pedal harder out of the turn to catch up. One time I forgot to switch them out before a trail-ride and it was painful, as the ride included a significant pavement portion. That's one of the reason I moved away from 29er enduro bikes, because with decent rubber (casing) there's just too much tire mass IME.

    Quote Originally Posted by Streetdoctor View Post
    Lol this is horrible information. Stick to XC please.


    It's fine. I really did lol though when I read the reply. It's well known that experts/pros want to stick with 2.3-2.5 and beginners/intermediates often like 2.6-3.0. The faster you go, the more you want something that can handle well. And that's not a plus tire. I was running only 12 psi on a WTB 2.8 and once I got over 10 mph the handling started to be pretty scary, a lot of understeer. And it wasn't really predictable either, that was a big problem. But for us mortals that average 10-12 mph down the hill, a plus tire is often faster than a voluminous one. I'm keeping track of roughly a dozen downhill segment times and there are only a couple where a 2.5 is faster than a 2.6 or 2.8 up front. I can pretty much guarantee that's because of my skill level. If I was better I could get away with a 2.4 or 2.5 up front and go faster, but I'm not better so I choose a wider tire because...well you could say it's a bit of a crutch. I often feel with a smaller tire up front that everything is so technical and more difficult, whereas with a plus tire you just point and shoot and have a complete blast down the hill. Less to think about. Bottom line is that it really depends on the trail and the rider's skill. There is no one tire for everyone, but personally, I absolutely love 2.5-2.8 Minions. I don't care a bit if they are heavier, I have a buttload of fun with them and don't crash.
    We ALL have something to learn here. Post helpful solutions instead of flaming for your own sadistic need.

  73. #73
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    1,489
    This entire thread is useless because we don't know what terrain anyone is riding. A tire that works great in the loam is most likely different than one that's great on hard pack, or hard rock, or decomposed granite...
    83 Ritchey Everest
    95 Bianchi Mega Tube ti
    2015 Kona Operator Supreme
    2015 Kona Process 153
    2019 Kona Process 153 CR 29

  74. #74
    mtbr member
    Reputation: HeavyFlow's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    77
    Timely topic for me.
    I have been running 2.5WT DHFs F&R on 30mm id rims for two seasons now.
    Previously on single ply 2.35 MM/RR combo.

    The switch from MM/RR to DHFs was "enlightening".
    - The DHF's are sticker, softer, more voluminous and give me 100% DH/Drpo confidence. They do not squirm at 23-24 PSI adn they mute the trail chatter very well.
    - The MM was almost as good at cornering as the DHF and did not have the same gap between center and cornering knobs (I still do not 100% like the dead spot on the DHFs).
    - The DHFs absolutely ruled at bike parks and the super rocky terrain here in the boston area.
    - The single ply Rock Razor was prone to flats
    - The DHFs will probablty never flat on me
    - The DHfs are much heavier (950g vs ~800g) and obviously the read is slower rolling than the RR

    The verdict?
    I LOVE the DHRs F&R for rocky stuff and the downs. The most confidence inspiring tire I have ever ridden and still has some trail feel left to it.

    BUT: They are pigs, and they are slow. Luckily I ride with people slower than me so it is not really an issue.

    However, heading to Vermont for Nembafest (this is why this is so timely for me) in June. And in VT, I agree that the DHFs are overkill.

    I am looking too put Rekon 2.6 on F&R for VT and then I will have the option of trying the DHF in front and the rekon out back.

    Maybe this is for another thread, but: Do I go with the new EXO+ or just EXO?
    The DHFs are just EXO and they feel great, but with the lighter tread on the Rekon, I am wondering if they will feel squirmy.

    Anyone have experience going 2.5 DHF to 2.6 Rekons both in EXO?
    I wonder if I need the EXO+ to make up for the smaller knobs.

  75. #75
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Streetdoctor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    2,629
    Quote Originally Posted by richj8990 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    IME, the harder you ride, the more you need the skinnier tire to go faster, to a limit of course, you can't go too small, but too large also doesn't help. As an example, I ran 2.5 minions F and R on my 29er Enduro rig (back when I had it), that was kind of a trainwreck, just too heavy to turn the bike at speed, the bike wanted to keep going straight and I had to slow down earlier and more than the other riders, then pedal harder out of the turn to catch up. One time I forgot to switch them out before a trail-ride and it was painful, as the ride included a significant pavement portion. That's one of the reason I moved away from 29er enduro bikes, because with decent rubber (casing) there's just too much tire mass IME.





    It's fine. I really did lol though when I read the reply. It's well known that experts/pros want to stick with 2.3-2.5 and beginners/intermediates often like 2.6-3.0. The faster you go, the more you want something that can handle well. And that's not a plus tire. I was running only 12 psi on a WTB 2.8 and once I got over 10 mph the handling started to be pretty scary, a lot of understeer. And it wasn't really predictable either, that was a big problem. But for us mortals that average 10-12 mph down the hill, a plus tire is often faster than a voluminous one. I'm keeping track of roughly a dozen downhill segment times and there are only a couple where a 2.5 is faster than a 2.6 or 2.8 up front. I can pretty much guarantee that's because of my skill level. If I was better I could get away with a 2.4 or 2.5 up front and go faster, but I'm not better so I choose a wider tire because...well you could say it's a bit of a crutch. I often feel with a smaller tire up front that everything is so technical and more difficult, whereas with a plus tire you just point and shoot and have a complete blast down the hill. Less to think about. Bottom line is that it really depends on the trail and the rider's skill. There is no one tire for everyone, but personally, I absolutely love 2.5-2.8 Minions. I don't care a bit if they are heavier, I have a buttload of fun with them and don't crash.
    I think you read into it too much and maybe I did the same with Jayem. I hate ďplusĒ tires but 2.4-2.6 is much better than running 2.3ís for my local Colorado conditions. My peak downhill speed is 3 times what you say is your average. I race cat 1 enduro/DH and Iím usually in the top 1/3 if that matters. In good condition, Iím mid pack in pro.

    Tire choice will always be a personal preference, Iím just saying no one fast around here runs 2.3ís (or 2.8ís for that matter).
    Denver, CO

  76. #76
    mtbr member
    Reputation: rynomx785's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Posts
    705
    Quote Originally Posted by HeavyFlow View Post
    Timely topic for me.
    I have been running 2.5WT DHFs F&R on 30mm id rims for two seasons now.
    Previously on single ply 2.35 MM/RR combo.

    The switch from MM/RR to DHFs was "enlightening".
    - The DHF's are sticker, softer, more voluminous and give me 100% DH/Drpo confidence. They do not squirm at 23-24 PSI adn they mute the trail chatter very well.
    - The MM was almost as good at cornering as the DHF and did not have the same gap between center and cornering knobs (I still do not 100% like the dead spot on the DHFs).
    - The DHFs absolutely ruled at bike parks and the super rocky terrain here in the boston area.
    - The single ply Rock Razor was prone to flats
    - The DHFs will probablty never flat on me
    - The DHfs are much heavier (950g vs ~800g) and obviously the read is slower rolling than the RR

    The verdict?
    I LOVE the DHRs F&R for rocky stuff and the downs. The most confidence inspiring tire I have ever ridden and still has some trail feel left to it.

    BUT: They are pigs, and they are slow. Luckily I ride with people slower than me so it is not really an issue.

    However, heading to Vermont for Nembafest (this is why this is so timely for me) in June. And in VT, I agree that the DHFs are overkill.

    I am looking too put Rekon 2.6 on F&R for VT and then I will have the option of trying the DHF in front and the rekon out back.

    Maybe this is for another thread, but: Do I go with the new EXO+ or just EXO?
    The DHFs are just EXO and they feel great, but with the lighter tread on the Rekon, I am wondering if they will feel squirmy.

    Anyone have experience going 2.5 DHF to 2.6 Rekons both in EXO?
    I wonder if I need the EXO+ to make up for the smaller knobs.
    I will say that I ruined 2 2.6 EXO casing DHFs last summer and switched to 2.5 EXO DHFs and haven't had any more issues since making the switch. I was told by a few people that the 2.5 EXO casing stronger than the 2.6 EXO casing and the 2.6 is lighter than the 2.5 so I would definitely go EXO+ on the 2.6. I also didn't like how the 2.6s cornered compared to the 2.5s. The "dead spot" feels larger and the harder to get the side knobs to bite. My rims are 30mm internal as well and the 2.6s seem to start getting a rounded profile with that rim width. I would be curious to try them again on 35mm rims to see if the side knobs would engage a bit sooner but that is a lot money to spend and I am pretty happy with my 2.5s.

    I did run a Rekon 2.6 for a bit on the back of my old Canyon but I didn't run it long enough to get a good feel for it. IMO you have to be riding pretty hard packed smooth trails for tread design to play that big of a roll in rolling resistance.

  77. #77
    mtbr member
    Reputation: jeremy3220's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Posts
    1,997
    If you're riding lift access DH I would definitely go with at least EXO+ in 2.5, which is what I'm running now. I wouldn't run 2.6+ at the bike park. 2.6 is good for trail riding but start feeling a bit bouncy and flimsy when really pushing it.

  78. #78
    mtbr member
    Reputation: HeavyFlow's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    77
    Quote Originally Posted by eshew View Post
    This entire thread is useless because we don't know what terrain anyone is riding. A tire that works great in the loam is most likely different than one that's great on hard pack, or hard rock, or decomposed granite...
    That's not entirely true - it started talking about Vermont soil very specifically.
    Which is precisely what got my attention.
    I mentioned my normal Boston rocky terrain.

  79. #79
    mtbr member
    Reputation: HeavyFlow's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    77
    Quote Originally Posted by HeavyFlow View Post
    That's not entirely true - it started talking about Vermont soil very specifically.
    Which is precisely what got my attention.
    I mentioned my normal Boston rocky terrain.
    AND the post right before your says:

    "brake better in our looser soil."

    and:

    "The forecaster really struggles straight on at speed in loose soil downhill."

    Given your use of all bold letters makes you come off a grump.

  80. #80
    mtbr member
    Reputation: HeavyFlow's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    77
    Thanks all. In case there was confusion, I was only talkign about 2.6 Rekons - I woudl not go to 2.6 DHF's as I love my 2.5s - and I would not take them park riding - I would use the DHFs for that.

    I am worried that the 2.6 WT Rekons will not have the same support as my 2.5 WT DHfs and I might wish I got the EXO+. At the same time If I only use them for more tame terrain, I migt not mind the regular EXO.

  81. #81
    mtbr member
    Reputation: HeavyFlow's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    77
    And I worry that a 730g tire (the regular EXO) cannot possibly be enough rubber between rim and rock. But sure would LOVE to feel the acceleration.

    But even going to 830g (EXO+) from the 950g DHFs should make me feel fitter!

  82. #82
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Streetdoctor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    2,629
    If you're a weight weenie and you're talking about 2.5 DHF's you should probably check yourself in to the closest hospital..
    Denver, CO

  83. #83
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Streetdoctor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    2,629
    Quote Originally Posted by HeavyFlow View Post
    Thanks all. In case there was confusion, I was only talkign about 2.6 Rekons - I woudl not go to 2.6 DHF's as I love my 2.5s - and I would not take them park riding - I would use the DHFs for that.

    I am worried that the 2.6 WT Rekons will not have the same support as my 2.5 WT DHfs and I might wish I got the EXO+. At the same time If I only use them for more tame terrain, I migt not mind the regular EXO.

    If it makes you feel any better I have 4 DHF EXO's, 3 DHF EXO+'s, and 5 Assegai EXO+'s hanging on my wall... (holy shit I have 19 new tires in total WTF). The EXO+ are all slightly lighter than regular EXO's. They're within 10-20 grams of each other.

    At 190lb with Cushcore I haven't torn a sidewall with EXO's in over 15 races or a little over a year (Angelfire, Whistler, Steamboat, Vail, Glorieta, etc).
    Denver, CO

  84. #84
    Bodhisattva
    Reputation: The Squeaky Wheel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    10,706
    Quote Originally Posted by Streetdoctor View Post
    If it makes you feel any better I have 4 DHF EXO's, 3 DHF EXO+'s, and 5 Assegai EXO+'s hanging on my wall... (holy shit I have 19 new tires in total WTF). The EXO+ are all slightly lighter than regular EXO's.

    At 190lb with Cushcore I haven't torn a sidewall with EXO's in over 15 races or a little over a year (Angelfire, Whistler, Steamboat, Vail, Glorieta, etc).
    My most DHF EXO+ 2.5 WT 27.5 weighed 40-50 gm (from memory) more than the standard EXO.

    And I'm waiting for that tire to wear a bit more before replacing it with an EXO Assegai 27.5 which should be fun

  85. #85
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Streetdoctor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    2,629
    Quote Originally Posted by The Squeaky Wheel View Post
    My most DHF EXO+ 2.5 WT 27.5 weighed 40-50 gm (from memory) more than the standard EXO.

    And I'm waiting for that tire to wear a bit more before replacing it with an EXO Assegai 27.5 which should be fun
    I literally just went out and weighed 2 of each. They're within 10-20g of each other with EXO's weighing 1120/1130 and EXO+ both weighing 1110. This is with a feedback hanging scale.

    My point is if you're considering 2.5 DHF's they're close enough it doesn't matter. The Assegai is sick, I'm sure you'll love it. I'm considering selling off a bunch of DHF's.
    Denver, CO

  86. #86
    Bodhisattva
    Reputation: The Squeaky Wheel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    10,706
    Quote Originally Posted by Streetdoctor View Post
    I literally just went out and weighed 2 of each. They're within 10-20g of each other with EXO's weighing 1120/1130 and EXO+ both weighing 1110. This is with a feedback hanging scale.

    My point is if you're considering 2.5 DHF's they're close enough it doesn't matter. The Assegai is sick, I'm sure you'll love it. I'm considering selling off a bunch of DHF's.
    I'm not arguing with you. I'm just stating that my personal experience with my first EXO+ in 27.5 differs from yours

  87. #87
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Streetdoctor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    2,629
    How can you not like the DHF/DHRII???-screen-shot-2019-06-06-10.32.26-am.jpg

    I didn't think you were. Check this out also, this is for Assegai's.


    Quote Originally Posted by The Squeaky Wheel View Post
    I'm not arguing with you. I'm just stating that my personal experience with my first EXO+ in 27.5 differs from yours
    Denver, CO

  88. #88
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    315
    Here in the PNW we have lots of glorious loam. I prefer the Magic Mary SS/ Hans Damf SG combo to the DHF/DHR combo in soft dirt, the Mary has more predictable bite and rolls a bit faster. In hardback or loose over hard the minions are better as the knobs are stiffer. Durability on the addix compounds seems to be pretty good and the super gravity feels great in the back but is heavy. The rock razor is a nice rear rolling and cornering but has basically no braking traction.

  89. #89
    mtbr member
    Reputation: HeavyFlow's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    77
    Quote Originally Posted by Streetdoctor View Post
    If you're a weight weenie and you're talking about 2.5 DHF's you should probably check yourself in to the closest hospital..
    Was that directed to me? I'm not a weight weenie. I ride a transition Patrol AL with 2.5 DHF's front and rear.
    And I have never weighed my bike nor do I care to.
    But 120g per tire loss will make anyone feel like their legs and lungs just got instantly better.

  90. #90
    mtbr member
    Reputation: HeavyFlow's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    77
    Quote Originally Posted by carlhulit View Post
    Here in the PNW we have lots of glorious loam. I prefer the Magic Mary SS/ Hans Damf SG combo to the DHF/DHR combo in soft dirt, the Mary has more predictable bite and rolls a bit faster. In hardback or loose over hard the minions are better as the knobs are stiffer. Durability on the addix compounds seems to be pretty good and the super gravity feels great in the back but is heavy. The rock razor is a nice rear rolling and cornering but has basically no braking traction.
    I loved my MM/RR combo.

    Now I have 30mm id rims, and I have a hard time using anything but a tire made for that width which is why I am on maxxis WT tires now. Curious about the new bigger MM/RR though.

  91. #91
    Bodhisattva
    Reputation: The Squeaky Wheel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    10,706
    Quote Originally Posted by Streetdoctor View Post
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Screen Shot 2019-06-06 at 10.32.26 AM.jpg 
Views:	38 
Size:	75.1 KB 
ID:	1255649

    I didn't think you were. Check this out also, this is for Assegai's.
    Maybe different weights due to the different tread compound?

    Perhaps my understand of + is incorrect, but I thought it was EXO plus the silkshield. So unless there's another variable, I'd think EXO+ to be inherently heavier, all things created equal otherwise.

    having said that, these weights don't bother

  92. #92
    mtbr member
    Reputation: jeremy3220's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Posts
    1,997
    Yeah, if you look at the Maxxis site the EXO+ weighs about 45g more than the EXO in the same compound.

    How much tire to run is pretty personal. You can go ride Windrock and probably make it down on EXO tires but you'll also see downhill racers destroying DH tires.

  93. #93
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    1,489
    Quote Originally Posted by HeavyFlow View Post
    That's not entirely true - it started talking about Vermont soil very specifically.
    Which is precisely what got my attention.
    I mentioned my normal Boston rocky terrain.
    You're completely correct. You did provide all that info right from the start I should have stated that differently, many of the replies are useless since tire selection is typically terrain dependent.

    Got a little sideways when I read so much love for the Hans Dampf which does roll well, but can't hold a corner to save it's life on the trails I ride in the pnw. I'll limit my bed time posts from now on
    83 Ritchey Everest
    95 Bianchi Mega Tube ti
    2015 Kona Operator Supreme
    2015 Kona Process 153
    2019 Kona Process 153 CR 29

  94. #94
    mtbr member
    Reputation: beer_coffee_water's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    1,002
    Quote Originally Posted by HeavyFlow View Post
    Timely topic for me.
    I have been running 2.5WT DHFs F&R on 30mm id rims for two seasons now.
    Previously on single ply 2.35 MM/RR combo.

    The switch from MM/RR to DHFs was "enlightening".
    - The DHF's are sticker, softer, more voluminous and give me 100% DH/Drpo confidence. They do not squirm at 23-24 PSI adn they mute the trail chatter very well.
    - The MM was almost as good at cornering as the DHF and did not have the same gap between center and cornering knobs (I still do not 100% like the dead spot on the DHFs).
    - The DHFs absolutely ruled at bike parks and the super rocky terrain here in the boston area.
    - The single ply Rock Razor was prone to flats
    - The DHFs will probablty never flat on me
    - The DHfs are much heavier (950g vs ~800g) and obviously the read is slower rolling than the RR

    The verdict?
    I LOVE the DHRs F&R for rocky stuff and the downs. The most confidence inspiring tire I have ever ridden and still has some trail feel left to it.

    BUT: They are pigs, and they are slow. Luckily I ride with people slower than me so it is not really an issue.

    However, heading to Vermont for Nembafest (this is why this is so timely for me) in June. And in VT, I agree that the DHFs are overkill.

    I am looking too put Rekon 2.6 on F&R for VT and then I will have the option of trying the DHF in front and the rekon out back.

    Maybe this is for another thread, but: Do I go with the new EXO+ or just EXO?
    The DHFs are just EXO and they feel great, but with the lighter tread on the Rekon, I am wondering if they will feel squirmy.

    Anyone have experience going 2.5 DHF to 2.6 Rekons both in EXO?
    I wonder if I need the EXO+ to make up for the smaller knobs.
    I recently switched from a 2.5 DHF to a 2.4 DHR II. I enjoy the DHF but I agree that the dead spot can suck sometimes. The DHR II seems to eliminate or minimize the DHF vagueness. The DHR II seems to have both the defined cornering channel from the two narrower center lugs and a small transition from the widest center tread block. So far I feel like I get the cornering DHF with bit more lean security. A 2.5 DHR II would be awesome.

    I also switched to a Rekon 2.4 3C, damn that tire is light at 800g. The softer rubber is getting chewed up through, a DC tire would best in back. It keeps the rear of my bike in check pointed down and climbs easier but can lose traction faster than an Aggressor. It pedals so much better than my Aggressor due to being 150g lighter. I guess more squats and deadlifts are in order if I let 6oz bother me.

    After experimenting with the a DHF/Aggressor and a DHR II/ Rekon, I think a 2.6 exo+ DHR II/2.5 Aggressor will be my next combo especially for the ultra dry loose summer conditions coming. The DHR II fixes my issues with the DHF and I think the Rekon is a little too low profile tread for what I like.

  95. #95
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Posts
    302
    OP: I thought the 2.6 hans dampf/ nobby nic combo on the ibis ripley I rode was good, since you too have an ibis and probably similar wheels they may work for you. I found that those tires on that particular wheelset gripped nicely and rolled great. Probably helps that that bike was 25 pounds though, so the bike was probably fast regardless.

    I'd take a look into rekons too although they may be more dry and dusty condition tires (IDK, google them!).

    But really OP, your problem is more likely the tire width than the tire tread itself, the 2.3 maxxis versions roll good, are durable, and grip well. IMO this is partially why I am partially opposed to the wider everything stance that is currently going on in the bike industry, wider wheels and tires do roll over stuff better and keep more momentum going downhill but the floaty-ness and slow rolling are not ideal. Personally I find that the 2.5 and 2.4 maxxis tires roll okay too, not great but there's a reason that they are popular.

    I have ridden 2.3 dhf/aggressor for the past year and I really think that 2.3 is ideal, except maybe 2.3 rear with a 2.5 DHF front. But 2.5 front and 2.4 dhr2 rear or 2.5 aggressor rear I felt floated over the ground more instead of digging in like the 2.3 tires do, which was not ideal. Could be me but after a guy at a local bike shop mentioned it and I demoed a bunch of 2.5/2.4 bikes, I came to their same conclusions.


    If you want to keep such wide wheels and tires, you probably should consider different tires than the minions then, although as mentioned I prefer narrower wheels. Especially in wetter and looser conditions, narrower tires can dig in more rather than floating (IMO).

    An additional note: I live in dry California and the DHF front with a DHF, DHR2, or Aggressor in the back are all amazing out here (I've exclusively ridden them all on the same bike for probably 3 years now) in our dry, dusty, rocky conditions. Actually, they do great when the trails get wet and muddy here too, I ride them year round. You mention that your trail conditions are wet and soft so its plausible that other tires might be better suited for your trails, such as those in the UK love highroller 2s and a bunch of tires that I'd hate to use on my local trails.

  96. #96
    Keep on Rockin...
    Reputation: Miker J's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Posts
    6,120

    Rekon 2.4 WT

    Quote Originally Posted by beer_coffee_water View Post

    ...I also switched to a Rekon 2.4 3C, damn that tire is light at 800g. The softer rubber is getting chewed up through, a DC tire would best in back. It keeps the rear of my bike in check pointed down and climbs easier but can lose traction faster than an Aggressor. It pedals so much better than my Aggressor due to being 150g lighter. I guess more squats and deadlifts are in order if I let 6oz bother me.

    After experimenting with the a DHF/Aggressor and a DHR II/ Rekon, I think a 2.6 exo+ DHR II/2.5 Aggressor will be my next combo especially for the ultra dry loose summer conditions coming. The DHR II fixes my issues with the DHF and I think the Rekon is a little too low profile tread for what I like.

    Thanks for the info.

    I've got two trail bikes, one AM with the 2.5 Minions, and the other more XC/trail with a 2.6 DHF up front and a Rekon 2.4 out back.

    Been debating if I should replace the Rekon with an Aggressor out back, but don't want too much tire on that bike. Don't want too much overlap with the burlier AM rig. Wasn't sure how the Aggressor would roll compared to the Rekon though, till I saw your post.

    Will probably stick with the Rekon out back for now. It is a very good tire for such a fast roller. I too got it in a 3C and am killing the side knobs in very short order. We've got a lot of slick, wet roots and rocks here so I think the DC might lack enough grip.

    And by the way, I do plenty of squats and deadlifts and those 150g don't get easier. You just go faster - at least on the climbs.

  97. #97
    Keep on Rockin...
    Reputation: Miker J's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Posts
    6,120
    Quote Originally Posted by HeavyFlow View Post
    Thanks all. In case there was confusion, I was only talkign about 2.6 Rekons - I woudl not go to 2.6 DHF's as I love my 2.5s - and I would not take them park riding - I would use the DHFs for that.

    I am worried that the 2.6 WT Rekons will not have the same support as my 2.5 WT DHfs and I might wish I got the EXO+. At the same time If I only use them for more tame terrain, I migt not mind the regular EXO.
    There have been quite a few posts regarding the 2.6 vs the 2.5 flavored tires from Maxxis.

    They are very different tires. The 2.5 have a much more robust, supportive sidewall. They are tougher and dig in better with hard, fast riding. But they roll slower and don't grip quite as well when it comes to low speed rock crawling, and don't remove the trail chatter as nicely.

    So no, no way will the 2.6 WT Rekon give the same support as a 2.5 DHF.

    On my AM bike I'm got away from the 2.6 out back and run a 2.5 DHF for the support, but have kept a 2.6 DHF up front. The way the 2.6 removes the small, fast trail chatter is impressive. I do have a spare 2.5 DHF in waiting for whichever one dies first.

  98. #98
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    340
    Quote Originally Posted by WoodstockMTB View Post
    Heresy, I know. I'm just not sure I like them.

    Running 2.6 F/R on my Ibis HD3.

    They just feel kinda heavy and slow to me and I don't like the feel that much.

    I ride mainly in VT where we have soft dirt trails with roots and some rocks mixed in. Occasionally its dry where we have pine groves, but otherwise its decomposed earth and most damp.

    What is faster? I know Nobby Nic and Hans Dampf as I've used them on my Ripley. I really liked running the HD front and Rear on that bike.

    I ran a forekaster on the rear of my HD3 which I think I liked better than the DHRII...what else rides faster and "lighter" if not in weight?
    those are just too heavy for a majority of the riding I do. Went to NN (F/R) this year and love 'em. Fast as shite, durable and not crazy $$$
    2015 Santa Cruz 5010 C

  99. #99
    Keep on Rockin...
    Reputation: Miker J's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Posts
    6,120
    Quote Originally Posted by eshew View Post
    This entire thread is useless because we don't know what terrain anyone is riding. A tire that works great in the loam is most likely different than one that's great on hard pack, or hard rock, or decomposed granite...
    Got to disagree.

    Looks to me at least a few of the posters mention the turf type on which they ride the tires being discussed.

    You are very right that advice given on these boards is not useful as it is given without mention of terrain, or even riding style. For example, I found if I ride in a mellow fashion the 2.6 Maxxis tires are perfect. But if I want to get real aggressive with cornering or descending the 2.6 tires don't work well. Then it's a 2.5 WT with its thicker casing.

  100. #100
    mtbr member
    Reputation: beer_coffee_water's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    1,002
    Quote Originally Posted by Miker J View Post
    Thanks for the info.

    I've got two trail bikes, one AM with the 2.5 Minions, and the other more XC/trail with a 2.6 DHF up front and a Rekon 2.4 out back.

    Been debating if I should replace the Rekon with an Aggressor out back, but don't want too much tire on that bike. Don't want too much overlap with the burlier AM rig. Wasn't sure how the Aggressor would roll compared to the Rekon though, till I saw your post.

    Will probably stick with the Rekon out back for now. It is a very good tire for such a fast roller. I too got it in a 3C and am killing the side knobs in very short order. We've got a lot of slick, wet roots and rocks here so I think the DC might lack enough grip.

    And by the way, I do plenty of squats and deadlifts and those 150g don't get easier. You just go faster - at least on the climbs.
    I am still on one bike atm, but once I build my hardtail back, I am going to copy your tire variation. 6in bike goes to heavy rubber and my hardtail will rock a DHR II and Rekon setup.

    This isn't good news about more squats and deadlifts, lol. I am weak and out of shape from tax season, only putting up nearly body weight on squats and pulling little bit more than me on deadlifts. Its amazing how much weight you gain during 3 1/2 months of work, stress and shitty sleep. I have been riding and lifting 3 days a week each. I am definitely using the harder gears for everything after 5 weeks. Once we get to the hot summer here in CA, I should be back near preseason form.

  101. #101
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Gman086's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Posts
    4,657
    Quote Originally Posted by agreenbike View Post
    I have ridden 2.3 dhf/aggressor for the past year and I really think that 2.3 is ideal, except maybe 2.3 rear with a 2.5 DHF front. But 2.5 front and 2.4 dhr2 rear or 2.5 aggressor rear I felt floated over the ground more instead of digging in like the 2.3 tires do, which was not ideal. Could be me but after a guy at a local bike shop mentioned it and I demoed a bunch of 2.5/2.4 bikes, I came to their same conclusions.

    An additional note: I live in dry California and the DHF front with a DHF, DHR2, or Aggressor in the back are all amazing out here (I've exclusively ridden them all on the same bike for probably 3 years now) in our dry, dusty, rocky conditions. Actually, they do great when the trails get wet and muddy here too, I ride them year round. You mention that your trail conditions are wet and soft so its plausible that other tires might be better suited for your trails, such as those in the UK love highroller 2s and a bunch of tires that I'd hate to use on my local trails.
    I think the rear tire width thing really depends on the rider's weight. I'm under 185 lbs geared and never EVER feel the rear wheel is "digging in" with a 2.3. A rider over 200 lbs tho, yeah, I could see that so... I think you have to qualify that statement as I did in my earlier post.

    Also agree on your conditions comment and completely disagree with that other poster about "useless info" because of not knowing terrain type or conditions. Reason being today's tire compounds make them FAR more universal than even just 5 years ago and the ONLY conditions the DHF (or DHR2 or Aggressor) doesn't do well in are clay like mud and then you'd want a specific tire anyway so... the reason they are so popular IS BECAUSE they literally work across most all conditions.

    Have FUN!

    G MAN
    "There's two shuttles, one to the top and one to the hospital" I LOVE this place!!!

  102. #102
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Posts
    302
    Quote Originally Posted by Jetta2010 View Post
    those are just too heavy for a majority of the riding I do. Went to NN (F/R) this year and love 'em. Fast as shite, durable and not crazy $$$
    I rode 2 bikes with a nobby nic front and rear and I am skeptical about running the nobby nic upfront. Yes it worked fine on the rear with a hans dampf front, but I had a sudden unpredictable wash out with the nobby nic on the front. Not only do I question the cornering abilities of a nobby nic front, I use to run DHF/DHF on my bike too for maybe 10 months until the front end also washed out on me. So, running the same tire front and rear may cause you to have a crash if you push it too hard as you may have the front wash out and be unable to recover. As a result, I run with a faster/ less grippy tire on the rear and have not had issues since (currently run dhf front aggressor rear)
    Quote Originally Posted by Gman086 View Post
    I think the rear tire width thing really depends on the rider's weight. I'm under 185 lbs geared and never EVER feel the rear wheel is "digging in" with a 2.3. A rider over 200 lbs tho, yeah, I could see that so... I think you have to qualify that statement as I did in my earlier post.

    Also agree on your conditions comment and completely disagree with that other poster about "useless info" because of not knowing terrain type or conditions. Reason being today's tire compounds make them FAR more universal than even just 5 years ago and the ONLY conditions the DHF (or DHR2 or Aggressor) doesn't do well in are clay like mud and then you'd want a specific tire anyway so... the reason they are so popular IS BECAUSE they literally work across most all conditions.

    Have FUN!

    G MAN
    Yeah I guess its preferences, I should probably aim my comment at the aggressor in particular as that's the 2.5 or bigger tire that I rode the most. See page 3 of this thread where some complain about hardpack squirminess with the 2.5 aggressor, while I haven't had issues with the 2.3: https://forums.mtbr.com/wheels-tires...1007391-3.html The second most common wide rear tire I rode was a 2.4d hr2 but I think that DHR2s are designed to drift when really pushed so there's probably not any issue with width there.

    Also,t he ibis with 2.6 hans damf/nobby nic on those super wide ibis wheels worked well, and come to think of it, so did a stumpjumper with whatever t2.6 tires they come with (disclaimer: the carbon comp felt heavy and slow with those tires, but the s works felt fine, so those 2.6's may/may not be slow). Maybe i'm used to 2.3s to the point that I am not a fan of wide tires.

    As usual, its all totally IMO and I was legitimately curious as to if others had the same issues as I did.

    And good point about the tires working in all conditions, although I must point out that some tires are of course suited to working in different conditions better than others, such as i'd pick a high roller 2 if I was going to ride in the mud but take a DHF if I was in the dry. Probably won't want to run a tire with small knobs like an Ikon in wet and loose conditions either. Luckily though most tires like the minions work pretty good universally.

    EDIT: edited to add links, etc.

  103. #103
    mtbr member
    Reputation: HeavyFlow's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    77
    I just pulled the trigger on some 2.6WT Rekons - will post back after my VT trip end of June

  104. #104
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    735
    Quote Originally Posted by agreenbike View Post

    An additional note: I live in dry California and the DHF front with a DHF, DHR2, or Aggressor in the back are all amazing out here (I've exclusively ridden them all on the same bike for probably 3 years now) in our dry, dusty, rocky conditions. Actually, they do great when the trails get wet and muddy here too, I ride them year round. You mention that your trail conditions are wet and soft so its plausible that other tires might be better suited for your trails, such as those in the UK love highroller 2s and a bunch of tires that I'd hate to use on my local trails.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gman086 View Post
    I think the rear tire width thing really depends on the rider's weight. I'm under 185 lbs geared and never EVER feel the rear wheel is "digging in" with a 2.3. A rider over 200 lbs tho, yeah, I could see that so... I think you have to qualify that statement as I did in my earlier post.

    Also agree on your conditions comment and completely disagree with that other poster about "useless info" because of not knowing terrain type or conditions. Reason being today's tire compounds make them FAR more universal than even just 5 years ago and the ONLY conditions the DHF (or DHR2 or Aggressor) doesn't do well in are clay like mud and then you'd want a specific tire anyway so... the reason they are so popular IS BECAUSE they literally work across most all conditions.

    Have FUN!

    G MAN
    Indeed.

    I've been running 2.5" EXO DHFs for quite some time now and I've always found the EXO sidewalls a bit squirrely in the rear until you get above 27 or 28 PSI. I'm a fairly heavy guy (180 but closer to 200 kitted) and I was finding that at the pressures I wanted to run on our highly technical, usually wet (no mud, you have to have soil for that ) terrain that the rear tire felt like it was coming off the rim and I was always smashing the rim off stuff. This spring I switched to a DD Agresssor in 2.3 and kept the 2.5 MaxxGrip DHF on the front. I was worried that the Aggressor wouldn't be grippy enough but that turned out to be not a big issue at all. While it isn't as grippy as a DHF (D'uh) it's actually surprisingly good even in the wet but there is a *marked* difference in rolling resistance and sidewall stiffness even at 20psi. I've had to adjust my technique slightly to not spin it out on wet rocks and roots but not nearly as much as I thought I would and the improvements are totally worth the tradeoffs in weight and grip. Even though the 2.3 DD Aggressor is heavier than a 2.5 EXO DHF, it rolls way better and I haven't dinged my rim since I put it on.

  105. #105
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Posts
    302
    Quote Originally Posted by L. Ron Hoover View Post
    Indeed.

    I've been running 2.5" EXO DHFs for quite some time now and I've always found the EXO sidewalls a bit squirrely in the rear until you get above 27 or 28 PSI. I'm a fairly heavy guy (180 but closer to 200 kitted) and I was finding that at the pressures I wanted to run on our highly technical, usually wet (no mud, you have to have soil for that ) terrain that the rear tire felt like it was coming off the rim and I was always smashing the rim off stuff. This spring I switched to a DD Agresssor in 2.3 and kept the 2.5 MaxxGrip DHF on the front. I was worried that the Aggressor wouldn't be grippy enough but that turned out to be not a big issue at all. While it isn't as grippy as a DHF (D'uh) it's actually surprisingly good even in the wet but there is a *marked* difference in rolling resistance and sidewall stiffness even at 20psi. I've had to adjust my technique slightly to not spin it out on wet rocks and roots but not nearly as much as I thought I would and the improvements are totally worth the tradeoffs in weight and grip. Even though the 2.3 DD Aggressor is heavier than a 2.5 EXO DHF, it rolls way better and I haven't dinged my rim since I put it on.
    After further review I think a lot of the issues I had with wider tires is that I am using them on more hardpacked conditions and that the wider tires have taller knobs in general, which makes them worse for those conditions. If the knob height was the same on all the tires, the wider ones would probably be better in most cases.

    Secondly, some of the areas I had issues with were on some loose gravel-y corners. I think in that case, the wider tires probably floated more over the gravel while the 2.3 tires dug in. But mostly its the knob height.

    I run my 2.3 dhf 3c (front) at 18-19psi and aggressor (rear) at 23 psi, all measured on a bike pump and right before I ride as the tires have warmed up for the day. They are on <25mm rims too and I am also not the lightest rider either. Both tires are EXO.

    Final note: After my last ride I can confirm that my 2.3 combo rolls (IMO) blazingly quick, definitely not sluggish at all especially for the amount of grip they provide. I still say that the combo the thread poster mentioned is great and the slow rolling is probably largely due to the wide size of their tires. Right now I would mostly benefit from having wider tires actually, at least for my downhill riding, they would plow better on the uneven terrain, keep momentum better, and just give more overall grip. Just mounting the same tires on wider rims (27-30mm, such as the 27mm on the hightower) would also make a big difference, but I could go with a 2.5 on the front at least. I'd be pretty excited to try a 2.5dhf/2.4 rekon combo now that I know there is a 2.4 rekon (although I ran into a guy who had that combo on his hightower and the rekons clearly were not lasting that long).

    Also, I don't know what the status is with the 2.5 exo assegai but it seems like it could easily become "THE" front tire for everything instead of the DHF. I'd like to give one a try someday just for the supposedly consistent cornering.

  106. #106
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Posts
    1,270
    Transition knobs, even Greg Minnaar thinks they're a thing.

  107. #107
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Vespasianus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    5,747
    It is the Right of the People to Alter or to Abolish It.

  108. #108
    mtbr member
    Reputation: rynomx785's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Posts
    705
    Quote Originally Posted by GRPABT1 View Post
    Transition knobs, even Greg Minnaar thinks they're a thing.
    In certain cases he obviously does but he was running DHR2s front and rear at Leogang.

  109. #109
    trekker
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    169
    Not a lot of info on Bontragers, so I'll throw in my limited experience. I'm on NorCal dirt, so mostly hard and dry with the occasional hero dirt in springtime. I'm running Bontrager SE4s (F&R 29x2.4) that came on my Trek Slash. I'm not terribly fast -- top 25% on most downhills and the rare top 10% according to strava, so it's not like I'm going to be on the podium in any enduro races. However, Cali is pretty fast in general.

    The SE4s roll well. Wish I would have went with the SE5 or DHF for the front, but I think the back tire is working really well. The front wheel traction when really leaning over makes me a little nervous and I've washed out twice when railing it.

    Back when I was in the midwest with soft dirt, I would say the SE4s are borderline too much.

  110. #110
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Posts
    46
    I can't be the only one who finds the Vittoria Goma to feel MUCH better than the DHF. I barely even notice that it is like 1100 grams. When it comes time to replace, I can't see myself looking for a Maxxis tire DHF or other when I can probably find another Goma for <$35.

    I don't have any intentions of trying a DHR (or any Maxxis option) when I can find a host of other good rear options on sale for half the price. I am currently running a Vittoria Morsa that I got for $30 that is fantastic.

  111. #111
    Bodhisattva
    Reputation: The Squeaky Wheel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    10,706
    I just replaced a front 27.5 DHF 2.5 WT Exo+ with a 2.5 WT Assegai.

    After years of using DHF exclusively as a front, I think I've found it's successor. Assegai grip on Colorado sand/ kitty litter over loose is significantly better than the DHF. Rolling resistance feels about the same. Assegai is heavier but I can't feel that on the bike

    I haven't tried a Goma but hear good things about it. Ditto the Onza citius. And the new WTB Verdict intrigues me as a front.

  112. #112
    mtbr member
    Reputation: rynomx785's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Posts
    705
    Quote Originally Posted by The Squeaky Wheel View Post
    I just replaced a front 27.5 DHF 2.5 WT Exo+ with a 2.5 WT Assegai.

    After years of using DHF exclusively as a front, I think I've found it's successor. Assegai grip on Colorado sand/ kitty litter over loose is significantly better than the DHF. Rolling resistance feels about the same. Assegai is heavier but I can't feel that on the bike

    I haven't tried a Goma but hear good things about it. Ditto the Onza citius. And the new WTB Verdict intrigues me as a front.
    I have a heard a few times that the Assegai is slower than the DHF but I don't really understand how it could be that much slower. How many ride have you gotten on it at this point? Would you say the DHF locks in better once the side knobs are engaged?

  113. #113
    mtbr member
    Reputation: jeremy3220's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Posts
    1,997
    Quote Originally Posted by rynomx785 View Post
    I have a heard a few times that the Assegai is slower than the DHF but I don't really understand how it could be that much slower.
    More rubber mass means more rubber to deform which means more hysteresis. Plus more rotating weight of course. That's the theory anyway.

  114. #114
    Bodhisattva
    Reputation: The Squeaky Wheel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    10,706
    Quote Originally Posted by rynomx785 View Post
    I have a heard a few times that the Assegai is slower than the DHF but I don't really understand how it could be that much slower. How many ride have you gotten on it at this point? Would you say the DHF locks in better once the side knobs are engaged?
    In fairness, last night was maiden voyage on a trail I've ridden a zillion times, which is very loose and sketchy in spots. So it's a good testing ground for me.

    With that in mind, no, I don't 't think the DHF locks in better but will certainly pay attention to that this weekend when I'll log a lot more mileage.

  115. #115
    mtbr member
    Reputation: rynomx785's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Posts
    705
    Quote Originally Posted by jeremy3220 View Post
    More rubber mass means more rubber to deform which means more hysteresis. Plus more rotating weight of course. That's the theory anyway.
    In regards to the knob height being taller than a DHF?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Squeaky Wheel View Post
    In fairness, last night was maiden voyage on a trail I've ridden a zillion times, which is very loose and sketchy in spots. So it's a good testing ground for me.

    With that in mind, no, I don't 't think the DHF locks in better but will certainly pay attention to that this weekend when I'll log a lot more mileage.
    Thanks. Looking forward to hearing your thoughts after some more time on it.

  116. #116
    mtbr member
    Reputation: jeremy3220's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Posts
    1,997
    Quote Originally Posted by rynomx785 View Post
    In regards to the knob height being taller than a DHF?
    Yeah, but any additional rubber would do the same to varying degrees.

  117. #117
    mtbr member
    Reputation: rynomx785's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Posts
    705
    Quote Originally Posted by jeremy3220 View Post
    More rubber mass means more rubber to deform which means more hysteresis. Plus more rotating weight of course. That's the theory anyway.
    Quote Originally Posted by jeremy3220 View Post
    Yeah, but any additional rubber would do the same to varying degrees.
    Is it just me or is all this "theory" in regards to rolling resistance a little over the top? LOL Are talking inches in a game of miles?

    I would be curious to see roll down tests between the Assegai and DHF to see how much of a difference there really is.

  118. #118
    gravity curmudgeon
    Reputation: cowdog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    1,502
    I have nothing but praise for DHF, DHR II (and Agressor) tires I have ridden this year. There are so many size, casing, and rubber options that it is hard to expand my limited impressions to the full lineup of options for each, but that in itself seems like another reason to like the tires. Options galore. Each is a lineup of tires rather than a tire.

    But I also get how personal tire choices are and understand that the love can be hard to find. I regularly ride roads from my house to get to trails, and then even on those trails the conditions vary widely from buff to gnarly rocky, rooty, loose tech, with everything in between. Because of that it is really hard to say tire A or B is the perfect tire for me. In the past I have ended up going the compromise tire route with tires like an Ardent or Nobby Nic. Granted that was back in the mid-2000s and those versions of those tires are long gone, but the principle is the same. Catching back up to tires in 2019, there are far more options where maybe I can get a little more grip, braking, cornering, beef cake tire that isn't such a bad compromise on the paved road, gravel road, buff trail sections. It seems like some of the Minion options are getting close at the least. Fun to explore for sure.

  119. #119
    mtbr member
    Reputation: AmericanTemplar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    388
    Quote Originally Posted by WoodstockMTB View Post
    Heresy, I know. I'm just not sure I like them.

    Running 2.6 F/R on my Ibis HD3.

    They just feel kinda heavy and slow to me and I don't like the feel that much.

    I ride mainly in VT where we have soft dirt trails with roots and some rocks mixed in. Occasionally its dry where we have pine groves, but otherwise its decomposed earth and most damp.

    What is faster? I know Nobby Nic and Hans Dampf as I've used them on my Ripley. I really liked running the HD front and Rear on that bike.

    I ran a forekaster on the rear of my HD3 which I think I liked better than the DHRII...what else rides faster and "lighter" if not in weight?
    I'm in Northern California but I go to Vermont to see family every summer and I always bring my Ibis Tranny with me. I have it set up with my favorite XC combo, Ardent front, Ikon rear. I can't see needing Minions on anything that I've ridden there, which is mostly in Stowe and once at the Kingdom Trails. Seems like you guys have plenty of traction with year round moisture. The only slipperiness is from wet roots and rocks and big knobs don't do a whole lot there. Minions are good for more high speed open terrain with loose dirt. For the more twisty, undulating, relatively low speed stuff that I've ridden there, I think a regular old XC tire that handles nicely are better.

    Also, I like the Minion SS as a rear tire way more than the DH2.

  120. #120
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Posts
    302
    Quote Originally Posted by rynomx785 View Post
    Is it just me or is all this "theory" in regards to rolling resistance a little over the top? LOL Are talking inches in a game of miles?

    I would be curious to see roll down tests between the Assegai and DHF to see how much of a difference there really is.
    I think that front tire rolling resistance is more important than most people give credit to. One winter I ran a 2.3 3C EXO Highroller 2 on the front of my bike and I had no easy climbing gear so it was brutal to climb with. At the end of the season I put a 2.3 3C EXO DHF on the front of the bike and kept the same rear tire and it was noticeably easier to climb, I felt like the bike moved further per pedal stroke. My overall ride time (near 2 hours) also decreased by minutes even though conditions were the same.

    How much slower a 2.5 3C EXO Assagai is than a 2.5 3C EXO DHF is something that I don't think anyone has determined yet, if it is even slower at all. I think DHFs are pretty good but if the Assagai is much better and only marginally slower then it may be worth it to use it instead. Much like the Aggressor has popped up everywhere in the past 2 years and is used often instead of minions, I think the Assagai has potential to be the next big thing.

  121. #121
    Bodhisattva
    Reputation: The Squeaky Wheel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    10,706
    Quote Originally Posted by agreenbike View Post
    I think that front tire rolling resistance is more important than most people give credit to. One winter I ran a 2.3 3C EXO Highroller 2 on the front of my bike and I had no easy climbing gear so it was brutal to climb with. At the end of the season I put a 2.3 3C EXO DHF on the front of the bike and kept the same rear tire and it was noticeably easier to climb, I felt like the bike moved further per pedal stroke. My overall ride time (near 2 hours) also decreased by minutes even though conditions were the same.

    How much slower a 2.5 3C EXO Assagai is than a 2.5 3C EXO DHF is something that I don't think anyone has determined yet, if it is even slower at all. I think DHFs are pretty good but if the Assagai is much better and only marginally slower then it may be worth it to use it instead. Much like the Aggressor has popped up everywhere in the past 2 years and is used often instead of minions, I think the Assagai has potential to be the next big thing.
    All differences in rolling resistance matter to some degree. and therein lies the question.

    In your example, I agree 100% HR2 was one of the slowest rolling tires I've ever ridden. Front, rear....not for me. I also didn't like the way it corned, as it has a big dead zone from center knob to side knob.

    I'm only two rides in to my Assegai. Thus far, I do not detect any meaningful difference in RR, using it as a front tire. Braking grip and lateral grip in my terrain is superior to DHF.

    In comparison to the DHF, I've yet to find where Assegai is inferior, aside from the weight difference.

  122. #122
    Dream it, Do it.
    Reputation: Spectre's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    1,574
    I might suggest a Nobby Nic as rear tire paired with a DHF front. The Nobby Nic rolls surprisingly well & will break loose faster than the DHF.
    Dirt Merchant Bikes
    www.dirtmerchantbikes.com
    Seattle area dealer for Turner Bikes & Cleary Bikes

  123. #123
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Posts
    169
    Now that im using the 2.5WT DHF\2.4WT DHR2 since the beginning of the season (for the first time).

    Compared to my favorite combo, Magic Mary soft\Hans Dampf soft (both 2.35), i like the DHR2 in the back, its having good rolling and grip, and its having nice Ďbiteí that i like when im braking, at list on the dry conditions we having at the moment.

    Thats not the case with the DHF up front, donít know how they are on the wet conditions, but so far on dry i expected a bit more (based on how ppl raves about them) special in corners and burns they feels a bit Ďloseí n sketchy, and i donít have this nice bite i had with the MMÖ

    Maybe its me.. or the new bike im having that im still playing with the settings, but so far im not sold.

    That been said, for the time being iíll continue using them, and later on iíll try up front the DHR2 as well as the new Assegai, before moving back to my favorite combo.

  124. #124
    mtbr member
    Reputation: rynomx785's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Posts
    705
    Looks like Damien Oton and and Jesse Melamed run a Assegai up front and a DHR2 in back based on a couple pics I found. I know that is pretty inconclusive but I thought it was interesting to see how they pair up the different options.

  125. #125
    Shortcutting Hikabiker
    Reputation: Acme54321's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Posts
    3,215
    The DHF/DHRII is draggy AF, it's a fact. If you are just going downhill it's a grat combo but I'm not sure why they are stock on so many trail bikes these days.

    My go to summer combo for a while had been a DHRII up front and a 2.35 3C Ikon rear. The DHRII rolls faster and is lighter than a DHF without giving up much in performance. The Ikon is just a rocket ship that corners suprisongly well, but can't stop. I've tried other rears but just keep going back to the Ikon. I think I'm going to try a 2.4 Rekon dual compound out back and see how that goes.

  126. #126
    mtbr member
    Reputation: AmericanTemplar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    388
    Quote Originally Posted by Acme54321 View Post
    The DHF/DHRII is draggy AF, it's a fact. If you are just going downhill it's a grat combo but I'm not sure why they are stock on so many trail bikes these days.

    My go to summer combo for a while had been a DHRII up front and a 2.35 3C Ikon rear. The DHRII rolls faster and is lighter than a DHF without giving up much in performance. The Ikon is just a rocket ship that corners suprisongly well, but can't stop. I've tried other rears but just keep going back to the Ikon. I think I'm going to try a 2.4 Rekon dual compound out back and see how that goes.
    Have you tried the Minion SS? I think itís a good rear tire for more aggressive riding. The rolling resistance is only a tad slower than the Ikons but it holds a line better with the bigger side knobs. Can still break away predictably but bites again when it catches the edges. Ardent/Ikon is my favorite XC combo.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  127. #127
    Shortcutting Hikabiker
    Reputation: Acme54321's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Posts
    3,215
    Quote Originally Posted by AmericanTemplar View Post
    Have you tried the Minion SS? I think itís a good rear tire for more aggressive riding. The rolling resistance is only a tad slower than the Ikons but it holds a line better with the bigger side knobs. Can still break away predictably but bites again when it catches the edges. Ardent/Ikon is my favorite XC combo.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

    I have but didn't think it performed that much better than the Ikon. Sort of seemed like a wash, for me at least. SS has those big cornering knobs, but is lower volume, lows slower, and pretty squared off. Ikon has decent cornering knobs and a nice rounded, higher volume profile. That's where I'm thinking the Rekon 2.4 dual might fit in between the two.

  128. #128
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    1,442
    Quote Originally Posted by AmericanTemplar View Post
    Have you tried the Minion SS? I think itís a good rear tire for more aggressive riding. The rolling resistance is only a tad slower than the Ikons but it holds a line better with the bigger side knobs. Can still break away predictably but bites again when it catches the edges. Ardent/Ikon is my favorite XC combo.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    I'm not sure the SS would work well in our loose soil here in VT. I think I need more center treads. That and the braking would really not be good in the soft loose soil we have.

  129. #129
    mtbr member
    Reputation: HeavyFlow's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    77
    I just swapped my 2.5WT DHFs for 2.6(WT) Rekons.
    Exactly what I expected in that they are lighter and roll faster so I was feeling awesomely in shape! But then I missed the extra 100g of rubber in a few situations. Surprisingly NOT in the corners though. The DHFs have more straight line traction (climbing and braking).
    The Rekons corner surprisingly well. I also went with EXO+ where my DHFs are EXO and I am already running the Rekons a few PIS lower as they still do not feel squirmy at 22 PSI - I liked the DHFs at 24-25. I may try 20-21 in the Rekons next ride. (30 mm ID rims, NE root rock and loam)

    It does seem like a DHF or DHR up front with a Rekon out back might be really nice.

  130. #130
    mtbr member
    Reputation: AmericanTemplar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    388
    Quote Originally Posted by Acme54321 View Post
    I have but didn't think it performed that much better than the Ikon. Sort of seemed like a wash, for me at least. SS has those big cornering knobs, but is lower volume, lows slower, and pretty squared off. Ikon has decent cornering knobs and a nice rounded, higher volume profile. That's where I'm thinking the Rekon 2.4 dual might fit in between the two.
    I feel like the Ikon is more skiddy, but that may be because I have it on a hardtail, whereas the SS was on an FS.

  131. #131
    mtbr member
    Reputation: HeavyFlow's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    77
    And I would love to try a SS but need a 2.5WT EXO version first. I am afraid a 2.3 would be too square on a 30mmid rim

  132. #132
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Posts
    302
    Quote Originally Posted by Acme54321 View Post
    My go to summer combo for a while had been a DHRII up front and a 2.35 3C Ikon rear. The DHRII rolls faster and is lighter than a DHF without giving up much in performance. The Ikon is just a rocket ship that corners suprisongly well, but can't stop. I've tried other rears but just keep going back to the Ikon. I think I'm going to try a 2.4 Rekon dual compound out back and see how that goes.
    Interesting, does the ikon do well on DH stuff? I rode with narrow Ardent race tires when I was a beginner and decided to never go the small knob route again because although the tires rolled fast, they sucked at everything else. Those ikons are much wider though so I may have to check them out again.

    I'd be interested to hear feedback about that combo with a 2.4 rekon rear as I'm curious about trying it too.



    Quote Originally Posted by HeavyFlow View Post
    I just swapped my 2.5WT DHFs for 2.6(WT) Rekons.
    ....

    It does seem like a DHF or DHR up front with a Rekon out back might be really nice.
    Also good feedback! I think the combo I am most excited about trying is a 2.5 assegai front/ 2.4 rekon rear.

    Quote Originally Posted by ramsdude47 View Post
    I can't be the only one who finds the Vittoria Goma to feel MUCH better than the DHF. I barely even notice that it is like 1100 grams. When it comes time to replace, I can't see myself looking for a Maxxis tire DHF or other when I can probably find another Goma for <$35.
    Oops I missed the one when I replied before but I think Vittoria is just really not well known and is under everyone's radar, I have never seen them in my local bike shop or even seen them on anyone's bike before. They may very well be better than a DHF but IDK.

    The price somewhat concerns me, it is possible for that price that the maxxis actually lasts much longer and is more durable. My bike came with Kendas on it and it was kind of a similar situation: The Kenda's were actually really good and I think underrated but they also wore out in a few weeks, punctured extremely easy (several flats in a short period of time vs 1 minor punction in 3+ years of riding maxxis and that was on a non-exo XC tire in some extremely sharp rocks). Maxxis's reputation is worth a lot IMO.

  133. #133
    mtbr member
    Reputation: MSU Alum's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    4,091
    Quote Originally Posted by Streetdoctor View Post
    If it makes you feel any better I have 4 DHF EXO's, 3 DHF EXO+'s, and 5 Assegai EXO+'s hanging on my wall... (holy shit I have 19 new tires in total WTF). The EXO+ are all slightly lighter than regular EXO's. They're within 10-20 grams of each other.

    At 190lb with Cushcore I haven't torn a sidewall with EXO's in over 15 races or a little over a year (Angelfire, Whistler, Steamboat, Vail, Glorieta, etc).
    And I thought I was the "Imelda Marcos" of mountain bike tires! I am impressed.

    (After Imelda left MalacaŮang Palace, she was found to have left behind 15 mink coats, 508 gowns, 888 handbags, and 3000 pairs of shoes.)

  134. #134
    mtbr member
    Reputation: 006_007's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    9,138
    Everyone's preferences are interesting. I am currently enjoying a 2.4 Conti trail king up front with a 2.2 mountain king on the rear. 27mm iw rims. I tried the race king on the rear briefly, but uh no thanks not for me.

    I am intrigued by the Bontrager options.

  135. #135
    mtbr member
    Reputation: AmericanTemplar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    388
    Quote Originally Posted by HeavyFlow View Post
    And I would love to try a SS but need a 2.5WT EXO version first. I am afraid a 2.3 would be too square on a 30mmid rim
    They are very square on a 30mmm rim, but I didnít find the squareness to be a negative as a back tire. I think they would still be square if they were .2Ē wider.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  136. #136
    Shortcutting Hikabiker
    Reputation: Acme54321's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Posts
    3,215
    Quote Originally Posted by AmericanTemplar View Post
    I feel like the Ikon is more skiddy, but that may be because I have it on a hardtail, whereas the SS was on an FS.
    I could see that.

    Quote Originally Posted by agreenbike View Post
    Interesting, does the ikon do well on DH stuff? I rode with narrow Ardent race tires when I was a beginner and decided to never go the small knob route again because although the tires rolled fast, they sucked at everything else. Those ikons are much wider though so I may have to check them out again.

    I'd be interested to hear feedback about that combo with a 2.4 rekon rear as I'm curious about trying it too.
    The Ikon is by no means a DH tire. It doesn better downhill than you'd expect though. It works well for a fast trail tire when paired with a chunky front. Braking leaves a bit to be desires, which is why I may try the 2.4 Rekon.

  137. #137
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    1,232
    Quote Originally Posted by One Pivot View Post
    Maybe I'm alone in this sentiment, but if I run big crazy grippy tires, I'm just braking more for my riding buddy in front. But then im dragging them down on the climbs.

    Total opposite of EWS. I do care about the time going up, but less so about going down. I need enough grip to not wash out and be confident, but I'm already on the slower end of my group climbing.

    Going past about 2500ft in a ride and I start to really feel the tires. I know some of you do 10k ft on dhr's, but I'll pass. That sucks.
    This Guy!

    I down sized on my 29r from 2.5/2.4 to 2.3/2.3. Little slower descending, but better balance overall.

  138. #138
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Chuch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    656
    Quote Originally Posted by HeavyFlow View Post
    And I would love to try a SS but need a 2.5WT EXO version first. I am afraid a 2.3 would be too square on a 30mmid rim
    Confirmed, they need a bigger WT version. The new Rekon 2.4 is really adding up to the feedback I am seeing above here and filling the gap I was looking for on the rear of the bike, matched with the DHF 2.5 up front.
    Santa Cruz HT2

  139. #139
    Perpetual Hack
    Reputation: mykel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    2,137
    New 2.4 3C DHR2 Exo+ up front with a 2C 2.4 Rekon out back. (30mm internal)

    Only been a couple of weeks, but so far I'm very happy with the combo.

    Big bike now has an Ass-guy up front and a DHR2 in back, both in DH casing. Not yet ridden them, will be interesting to see how Greg's tire does - hopefully this weekend weather permitting.
    Hatched in '64
    A Dirtbag since '69
    A Knomer since '07

    Knolly Fugitive
    Knolly Podium
    Knolly Endorphin
    Knolly Delirium

  140. #140
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Chuch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    656
    Bike Parking on the Rekon 2.4 DC vs Aggressor or DHR2 on rear (matched to DHF):
    Spent the day at the Bryce Bike Park in VA yesterday. It's more like a hill with some pretty tame built trails with lots of berms, jumps, wood and some rock. I've ridden the Aggressor 2.5 and the DHR2 there as well, both of which are good tires. I prefer the DHR2 2.4.

    The Rekon played on the bike way better than I expected overall. It took about two runs to get used to a bit of the mid angle drift that seemed to go away once I figured out how to run her. It seemed that traction was better than I expected, even at speed and the breaking power was absolutely just fine, also better than I expected. The side knobs seemed to keep things in check as needed. The dirt was tacky in the morning and dusty by afternoon as temps approached 90.

    I understand that an 840g tire isn't probably meant to run at the bike park, but it was on my bike so I went with it. Granted the typical exo casing DHR2 I normally would be running isn't THAT much heavier. That being said....

    This tire squirms like a mofo. I started at 28 PSI which is higher than I have ever ran a DHR2 or the Aggressor and everytime we took a break I put three more PSI in it. It was weird, I didn't necessarily feel it at high speed in berms it was more low speed, scenarios where it really wallowed. FINALLY, at 35psi which is insanely high, it stopped feeling like it was coming off the rim at times. I weigh 175 unkitted FYI. I expected the tire to get skittery at that PSI range, but it didn't...just kept biting, so that was good I suppose. The last few runs at 35PSI felt pretty solid, but that just seems way too high.

    We put in 12 laps, maybe 14 miles or so. About 5K feet of vert and the tire looks nearly new. No chunking, no undercutting...I am impressed.

    In short, this tire will remain on my bike as 90pct of what I do is pedaling, and for that it seems to be killer in the traction/weight ratio department. I just wanted to draw up the reference that it is definitely not as stout as the 2.4 DHR2 (give up about 150 grams?) or the aggressor by any stretch. I think I put it to its limits yesterday. A 2.4 Exo+ version of this tire may be the real deal. I see they are making a 2.6 Exo+, so maybe we will get that wish?....
    Santa Cruz HT2

  141. #141
    MTB guide
    Reputation: LeoR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    34
    I ride trails, all mountain / enduro, both up and down on my SC Nomad 3. Been on Hans Dampf 2.35" Pacestar since 2015, tried Maxxis DHR II both front and rear in 2016, went back to Hans Dampf 2017 and last year to the new Hans Dampf with ADDIX Speedgrip compound. Since they removed the 2.35" HD Speedgrip from the selection they now have only 2.35" HD Soft which is too soft for my style, I searched for alternative tires for 2019. Found Kenda Hellkat 2.4" Pro ATC for front and Kenda Nevegal 2 2.4" Pro ATC for rear. So far they are the tires that I like the best, they provide more grip than Hans Dampf and faster rolling than DHR II. But still, I miss the extral speed of Hans Dampf Speedgrips - those tires were FAST!

    In Maxxis line up, I have never really found anything that could match the Hans Dampfs, except the DHR II - which is too slow. The Aggressors, maybe, but I wonder if they have the wet grip on slimy roots and rocks that HD has?

    I might surrender next year and go for the 2.6" Hans Dampf Speedgrips, but I really don't need 2.6" on the trails and the extra weight makes the bike sluggish. I prefer 2.35-2.4", faster accelerations and more speed.

  142. #142
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Posts
    302
    Quote Originally Posted by LeoR View Post
    I ride trails, all mountain / enduro, both up and down on my SC Nomad 3. Been on Hans Dampf 2.35" Pacestar since 2015, tried Maxxis DHR II both front and rear in 2016, went back to Hans Dampf 2017 and last year to the new Hans Dampf with ADDIX Speedgrip compound. Since they removed the 2.35" HD Speedgrip from the selection they now have only 2.35" HD Soft which is too soft for my style, I searched for alternative tires for 2019. Found Kenda Hellkat 2.4" Pro ATC for front and Kenda Nevegal 2 2.4" Pro ATC for rear. So far they are the tires that I like the best, they provide more grip than Hans Dampf and faster rolling than DHR II. But still, I miss the extral speed of Hans Dampf Speedgrips - those tires were FAST!

    In Maxxis line up, I have never really found anything that could match the Hans Dampfs, except the DHR II - which is too slow. The Aggressors, maybe, but I wonder if they have the wet grip on slimy roots and rocks that HD has?

    I might surrender next year and go for the 2.6" Hans Dampf Speedgrips, but I really don't need 2.6" on the trails and the extra weight makes the bike sluggish. I prefer 2.35-2.4", faster accelerations and more speed.
    How do you think a 2.4 dhr2 3C front would work with 2.35 hans dampfs on the rear? I'm getting a new bike that has 2.4 dhr2 3Cs on both the front and rear (30mm internal width 29er) and I am most likely going to ditch the dhr2 rear for something quicker rolling, I may even go as far as putting a 2.3 aggressor on like yeti ran with some of their bikes (they had 2.5 DHF front and 2.3 aggressor rear, both on 30mm IW rims).

    Also, I hate running the same front and rear tire, I have bad luck with the front end washing out when I do that. I thought the 2.4 dhr2 3C front/rear combo rolled kinda slow but if I wanted more grip then I would just keep that rear and throw and even gripper front tire on like a 2.5 assegai.

    Contestants here for norcal riding to replace the dhr2 rear are the 2.3 aggressor, 2.4 rekon, 2.3 specialized purgatory, and other similar tires. And of course the 2.35 hans dampf as mentioned above. I may just have to experiment here.

  143. #143
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    1,442
    Quote Originally Posted by LeoR View Post
    I ride trails, all mountain / enduro, both up and down on my SC Nomad 3. Been on Hans Dampf 2.35" Pacestar since 2015, tried Maxxis DHR II both front and rear in 2016, went back to Hans Dampf 2017 and last year to the new Hans Dampf with ADDIX Speedgrip compound. Since they removed the 2.35" HD Speedgrip from the selection they now have only 2.35" HD Soft which is too soft for my style, I searched for alternative tires for 2019. Found Kenda Hellkat 2.4" Pro ATC for front and Kenda Nevegal 2 2.4" Pro ATC for rear. So far they are the tires that I like the best, they provide more grip than Hans Dampf and faster rolling than DHR II. But still, I miss the extral speed of Hans Dampf Speedgrips - those tires were FAST!

    In Maxxis line up, I have never really found anything that could match the Hans Dampfs, except the DHR II - which is too slow. The Aggressors, maybe, but I wonder if they have the wet grip on slimy roots and rocks that HD has?

    I might surrender next year and go for the 2.6" Hans Dampf Speedgrips, but I really don't need 2.6" on the trails and the extra weight makes the bike sluggish. I prefer 2.35-2.4", faster accelerations and more speed.
    I also liked the Hans Dampf. I am liking the Bongrager XR4 2.6 /SE4 2.4. Very V1 Hans Dampf like. I have not tried the V2 HD, but was tempted. I like trying new things so gave the Bontragers a try. They roll well and I have not had any issues with grip here in VT. I might have also gone 2.4 up front had I known what they would look like on my wider rims.

  144. #144
    mtbr member
    Reputation: PuddleDuck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    1,483
    The latest issue of this downloadable mag
    https://enduro-mtb.com/en/magazine/
    has a great comparison review of all the trail/enduro/DH offers from most of the major tyre manufacturers (Maxxis, Sch, Michelin, Kenda, Conti, WTB). It's an interesting read.

    Unfortunately it's not available on their website https://enduro-mtb.com/en/ so you'll have to download the app to read it

  145. #145
    .
    Reputation: RustyIron's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    669
    Quote Originally Posted by WoodstockMTB View Post
    Heresy, I know. I'm just not sure I like them.

    Running 2.6 F/R on my Ibis HD3.

    They just feel kinda heavy and slow to me

    SAY IT, BROTHER! The Emperor has no clothes!

    I ran DHF's on the same bike as yours, and they were pigs. Fat pigs. Like Rosie O'Donnell trying to run the New York Marathon on a hot day... with no deodorant.

    You and I ride in completely different conditions, but on the same bike. My trails are generally dry, hard packed, with loose material or big rocks. Climbing with the 2.6" DHF's for extended periods was grueling. I'm currently running 2.8" Nobby Nics, and I think it's a good compromise. I'm no longer the fastest in the uphill, but the NN's are not totally awful. But in the downhill, they shred.

    I'm tempted to go to a faster rolling tire for my next set, but I'm concerned that I wouldn't like the loss in the DH.

    Dump those DHF/DHR's, and get yourself some new Schwables.

  146. #146
    Armature speller
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    3,213
    I find I prefer Specialized Ground Control's front and rear.
    Much faster rolling and easier pedalling.
    Much cheaper too.

  147. #147
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Posts
    169
    After another month with this combo, i tried the DHF/DHR2 from dry hardpack in bike parks up to wet and muddy singletracks and still i dont like the DHF in the front, missing the Magic Mary 'bite'... as for the DHR2, still like it as a rear tire.

    For the time bing i'll continue using this combo, and when iíll finish them, not sure with what to replace it with - DHR2/DHR2 (maybe iíll like it as fronts well), Assegai/DHR2, or back to Magic Mary/Hans Dampf that i liked last season.

  148. #148
    mtbr member
    Reputation: jeremy3220's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Posts
    1,997
    Amaury Pierron just won Les Gets on dual DHR2's.

  149. #149
    Ka-coo-ka-cha!
    Reputation: snigs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    551
    How can I not like the DHF? The drifty transition to the side knobs! On very loose, this it disconcerting and has put me on my side.

    Assegai solves this. Won't be going back to the DHF.

    DHR II? Never ran it. Aggressor has been fine for me. Not super ultra grippy, but rolls well-enough. And, I don't run ridiculously low pressure, so the EXO has been puncture free.
    Get a bicycle. You will not regret it, if you live. ~Mark Twain, "Taming the Bicycle"

  150. #150
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    1,442
    Today, I found the limit of the XR4 2.6 I put up front. I'm really not surprised given the knob design. I wanted a faster tire (Its faster) than the DHF and was willing to put up with a bit less grip. I lost the grip when the dirt was firmer (Soft by Western standards) and despite the grip loss the tires did recover with the help of my new XTR brakes (F-in awesome) helping avoid disaster.

    I will give these more time to see if rider input and playing with pressure can avert the slippage. If not, I'll need to hunt down a more aggressive front tire that doesn't slow me down. I love me some climbing and faster XC trails to get to my downs.

  151. #151
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    756
    What Psi and rim width?

  152. #152
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    1,442
    Quote Originally Posted by cassieno View Post
    What Psi and rim width?
    Ibis 742 Rims (35i) and Psi somewhere just below 20. MY gauge is not accurate. Tire feels firmer than I would like.

  153. #153
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    1,442
    My experience with the XR4 has my mind spinning. I spent the money on the XR4 so will be giving it plenty of more rides, but after reading a few other reviews/experiences I don't think my loss of grip was unique.

    I may be back on the hunt for a tire with good grip, but rolls well up front. 2.5-2.6 width.

    I may throw the 2.6 DHF back on just for comparison.

  154. #154
    mtbr member
    Reputation: jeremy3220's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Posts
    1,997
    The XR4 doesn't have the big cornering knobs like the Minions do. It has less grip no question. A 2.4 DHR2 in Maxx Terra compound will have more traction than the 2.6 XR4 and roll almost as fast.

    Another thing to consider is running a faster rolling tire in the rear that will wash out before the front. For trail riding I prefer something like a Minion up front with a really fast rolling tire out back like a semi-slick. I don't need a Minion out back unless I'm riding DH or similar terrain.

  155. #155
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Posts
    358
    Tires are such a crapshoot and everyone seems to feel them differently. One person says DHF rolls better than DHR2 and the next person says the opposite. You can't test them and I have wayyy too may sitting in my spare room but I have lots to choose from for different places.

    The problem is you can need different tires for different trails in the same area if you are a perfectionist so you need to just accept them and just ride. Nothing is perfect. I love light tires like one setup I have of a forekaster/Rekon for Utah riding but they suck on my dry and loose trails in my Canadian rockies. Also have a DHF(f) and DHR2/aggressorģ combo I can choose from.

    You know who loves me? Stans for all the sealant I buy.

  156. #156
    Having a nice day!
    Reputation: LoneStar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    1,367
    Quote Originally Posted by Dale-Calgary View Post

    You know who loves me? Stans for all the sealant I buy.
    Right there with you! I ended up building another wheelset so I can have the fast XC/trail tires on one set and the big grippy ones on another just because it is such a pain in the butt to change tires on the carbon rims I have.

  157. #157
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    3,446
    The Michelin Wild Rock'r2 exists. Minions are obsolete.

  158. #158
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    756
    Quote Originally Posted by aerius View Post
    The Michelin Wild Rock'r2 exists. Minions are obsolete.
    I can't find those combination of words on Michelin's site. Can you link me to whatever tire you are referring to? I can only find references to a tire from 2014 that doesn't seem to be produced anymore. Edit: this seems to be their newest front tire? https://bike.michelin.com/en/product...o-front-magi-x

    The issue with all these other tires is that the seem to have pretty extreme trade-offs - namely weight.

    The 2.5WT 3C/EXO/TR Maxterra is a reasonable "trail" tire at 1000gs. Yes, it's heavy-ish. But you get a lot of good for that weight.

    If you want downhill / park-lite / enduro tires Maxxis makes DD.

    WTB Vigilante is 1150-1250 for a 2.5. That's a pretty significant difference. Vittoria is the same way. Their aggressive tires all seem to be on the DD end of the weight spectrum.

    There seems to be a "gap" in the not quite Enduro but still the same tread pattern tires. Basically seems like only Maxxis EXO casing fills that.

    Maybe XR5s - but I have not ridden them.

  159. #159
    .
    Reputation: RustyIron's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    669
    Quote Originally Posted by WoodstockMTB View Post
    They just feel kinda heavy and slow to me and I don't like the feel that much.
    It's like riding uphill with your brakes on. Throw them in the trash. I've gone to 2.8 Nobby Nic's both front and rear, and life is much better now. We ride the same bike.

  160. #160
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    394
    Quote Originally Posted by jeremy3220 View Post
    Amaury Pierron just won Les Gets on dual DHR2's.
    And Loic Bruni won Vallnord (a week before) with DHR2's front and rear too.

  161. #161
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    2,236
    My favorite current set up for rocky dry terrain is the Eliminater Grid 2.6 up front and the newest Schwalbe Rock Razor 2.35 Speed/ Grip in the rear with a Pepi's Rokk tire noodle (required with these sidewalls).
    This set up is XC fast with 90% of the capability of Minions. This set up works right now because it's 100 degrees in TX currently.
    For the next step up in traction I like the MSC Gripper 2.3 (measures 2.47") up front and the Hans Dampf 2.35, with Pepi's noodles front and rear. Killer traction and still rolls pretty well.
    I do not love the DHRII as a front. It rolls poorly and doesn't lean as well as the DHF.

    Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

  162. #162
    Hitching a ride
    Reputation: Schulze's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    3,184
    Quote Originally Posted by 006_007 View Post
    Everyone's preferences are interesting. I am currently enjoying a 2.4 Conti trail king up front with a 2.2 mountain king on the rear. 27mm iw rims. I tried the race king on the rear briefly, but uh no thanks not for me.

    I am intrigued by the Bontrager options.
    Maybe the smaller sizes are better, but I couldn't get the new 2.6 versions of these to satisfy me in the dry, loose trails we have now. The TK side knobs are a strange combo of stiff in one spot and foldy in the next. The MK rolled and gripped well but I couldn't trust it on the rear because of its low weight.

  163. #163
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    3,446
    Quote Originally Posted by cassieno View Post
    I can't find those combination of words on Michelin's site. Can you link me to whatever tire you are referring to? I can only find references to a tire from 2014 that doesn't seem to be produced anymore. Edit: this seems to be their newest front tire? https://bike.michelin.com/en/product...o-front-magi-x
    They still make it as far as I know, Michelin's website is just horrible & broken.
    https://bike.michelin.com/en/product...rock-r2-enduro

    There seems to be a "gap" in the not quite Enduro but still the same tread pattern tires. Basically seems like only Maxxis EXO casing fills that.
    It seems that way, but IMO the gap exists for a reason. When you put a DHF tread pattern on a lighter casing such as the EXO, bad things start to happen. The grip available from the tread pattern allows good riders to seriously "over ride" the strength of the casing, and casings get wobbles put into them and damaged in all sorts of ways. An Ardent tread pattern on an EXO casing works fine since the traction limits of the tire will prevent almost all riders from going fast & hard enough to damage the casing, a DHF tread pattern on the other hand will allow most good riders to push hard enough that casings start getting mangled.

  164. #164
    Elitest thrill junkie
    Reputation: Jayem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    32,174
    Quote Originally Posted by aerius View Post
    It seems that way, but IMO the gap exists for a reason. When you put a DHF tread pattern on a lighter casing such as the EXO, bad things start to happen. The grip available from the tread pattern allows good riders to seriously "over ride" the strength of the casing, and casings get wobbles put into them and damaged in all sorts of ways. An Ardent tread pattern on an EXO casing works fine since the traction limits of the tire will prevent almost all riders from going fast & hard enough to damage the casing, a DHF tread pattern on the other hand will allow most good riders to push hard enough that casings start getting mangled.
    Yup.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  165. #165
    high pivot witchcraft
    Reputation: mtnbkrmike's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Posts
    3,288
    For all you guys who think Minions are pigs, stay away - FAR AWAY - from E*13 TRSs (not that anyone is pushing them in this thread).
    2020 Kona Unit
    2019 Forbidden Druid
    2018 Kona Honzo ST 30th BDay SE
    2015 Kona Paddy Wagon Fixed Gear

  166. #166
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Posts
    15
    Quote Originally Posted by mtnbkrmike View Post
    For all you guys who think Minions are pigs, stay away - FAR AWAY - from E*13 TRSs (not that anyone is pushing them in this thread).
    They are great for natural trails, suck in bikeparks and have the rolling characteristics of boats anchors. Very pleased with the casing/damping/weight ratio tho... But DHF/Aggressor anyday for me.



    Quote Originally Posted by aerius View Post
    They still make it as far as I know, Michelin's website is just horrible & broken.
    https://bike.michelin.com/en/product...rock-r2-enduro



    It seems that way, but IMO the gap exists for a reason. When you put a DHF tread pattern on a lighter casing such as the EXO, bad things start to happen. The grip available from the tread pattern allows good riders to seriously "over ride" the strength of the casing, and casings get wobbles put into them and damaged in all sorts of ways. An Ardent tread pattern on an EXO casing works fine since the traction limits of the tire will prevent almost all riders from going fast & hard enough to damage the casing, a DHF tread pattern on the other hand will allow most good riders to push hard enough that casings start getting mangled.
    For light riders, or as a front tires, it's a great casing I find.
    I'm 75 kg kitted, usually riding more like a neanderthal than a dancer, in rocky terrains, and EXO front has never caused me any trouble. I would not use it as a rear tire tho, DD all the way.

  167. #167
    mtbr member
    Reputation: PhoS's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    158
    Quote Originally Posted by Blatant View Post
    Probably mostly because they're 2.6. The modern "classic" people talk about, me included, would be the 2.5/2.4 combo. Actually quite a bit of difference from the 2.6 tires.
    Well.. yea.. Not sure why people feel the need slap on the biggest meats possible. I have a 2.5WT DHF up front on a 30mm ID wheel and it's massive. 2.6 is just ridiculous. The Maxxis 2.4 casing is a good happy medium size for aggressive trails, even a 2.35 is ok. Sure you wont be able to get away with 16psi or whatever you run a 2.6 at but it'll get the job done with ease.

    I'm also very curious about the new Michelin wild enduros. I'm probably gonna try those out next. Vittoria has some nice tires too, the Morsa looks like a good intermediate offering, I really liked the Goma previously. I'd prefer to keep my tires under 1000g, I don't have issues flatting EXO casings so no DD for me.

  168. #168
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    2,236
    Quote Originally Posted by Schulze View Post
    Maybe the smaller sizes are better, but I couldn't get the new 2.6 versions of these to satisfy me in the dry, loose trails we have now. The TK side knobs are a strange combo of stiff in one spot and foldy in the next. The MK rolled and gripped well but I couldn't trust it on the rear because of its low weight.
    The smaller sizes of minions are better. In pretty much every way.
    On a 29er, ignore the labeling on the tires and shoot for an actual 2.42-2.5" front width and 2.35-2.43" rear width.
    This just flat works better for dry rocky Enduro type terrain.

    Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

  169. #169
    Hitching a ride
    Reputation: Schulze's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    3,184
    I was just about to order a 2.5 Assegai for the front in EXO+.

  170. #170
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    394
    Quote Originally Posted by Schulze View Post
    I was just about to order a 2.5 Assegai for the front in EXO+.
    Is it available in 29 x 2.5 with Maxx Grip?

  171. #171
    mtbr member
    Reputation: jeremy3220's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Posts
    1,997
    Quote Originally Posted by Verbl Kint View Post
    Is it available in 29 x 2.5 with Maxx Grip?
    Yeah, in DD and DH casings. Like mentioned above, a lot of grip and a flimsy casing is not a good combo.

  172. #172
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Posts
    169
    Quote Originally Posted by jeremy3220 View Post
    Amaury Pierron just won Les Gets on dual DHR2's.
    https://www.vitalmtb.com/features/WI...upreme-DH,2745

    Looks like he was using Schwalbe Magic Mary front n' rear...

  173. #173
    mtbr member
    Reputation: jeremy3220's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Posts
    1,997
    Quote Originally Posted by Muddy-Runs View Post
    https://www.vitalmtb.com/features/WI...upreme-DH,2745

    Looks like he was using Schwalbe Magic Mary front n' rear...
    Must of been thinking of one of the other Frenchies.

  174. #174
    mtbr member
    Reputation: dirtrider76's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    2,060
    I rode the DHF/DHF, DHF/DHR2, DHR2/Tomahawk combos in the past. I keep going back to the Magic Mary with a SE4, Aggressor 2.5 or Hans Dampf in back. I actually ride a Mary in ft on my trail setup and park setup just in different compounds.
    I like to fart when I'm in front of you on a climb:skep:

  175. #175
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    756
    Can you talk a little bit more about your thoughts on the SE4, Aggressor and Hans Dampf?

  176. #176
    mtbr member
    Reputation: dirtrider76's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    2,060
    Quote Originally Posted by cassieno View Post
    Can you talk a little bit more about your thoughts on the SE4, Aggressor and Hans Dampf?
    Hans = round profile, square knob, good spacing, go to winter tire in loose wet NE terrain. Knobs punch through that late fall wet leaf cover and loam perfectly. Not great on hardpack and will live a short life on it.

    SE4 = comparable to HD, round profile, ramped knobs, good spacing, works OK in winter and wet but typically use in spring time till it dries up. Seems to spin out a bit easier in the nasty stuff due to ramped knobs but still does well. Has less tread depth than the HD. Doesn't mind hardpack and lasts a bit longer than the HD.

    Aggresor 2.5 WT = round profile, tighter packed knobs with decent depth, works OK in everything but muddy wet and lots of leafy stuff like fall. IMHO it just doesn't punch through and packs up pretty bad. Wears much better than both above and seems to accel more on the dry rocky rooty terrain. I've rode it in wet leafy, rocky roots and such and it does OK but there are better options. Dry hardpack it seems to do great and wears well.


    I run all the above on EX471's which are pretty narrow at 25mm int.
    I like to fart when I'm in front of you on a climb:skep:

  177. #177
    mtbr member
    Reputation: tweeder82o's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Posts
    317
    Quote Originally Posted by dirtrider76 View Post
    Hans = round profile, square knob, good spacing, go to winter tire in loose wet NE terrain. Knobs punch through that late fall wet leaf cover and loam perfectly. Not great on hardpack and will live a short life on it.

    SE4 = comparable to HD, round profile, ramped knobs, good spacing, works OK in winter and wet but typically use in spring time till it dries up. Seems to spin out a bit easier in the nasty stuff due to ramped knobs but still does well. Has less tread depth than the HD. Doesn't mind hardpack and lasts a bit longer than the HD.

    Aggresor 2.5 WT = round profile, tighter packed knobs with decent depth, works OK in everything but muddy wet and lots of leafy stuff like fall. IMHO it just doesn't punch through and packs up pretty bad. Wears much better than both above and seems to accel more on the dry rocky rooty terrain. I've rode it in wet leafy, rocky roots and such and it does OK but there are better options. Dry hardpack it seems to do great and wears well.


    I run all the above on EX471's which are pretty narrow at 25mm int.
    you need to start your own thread describing all the tires in this manner

  178. #178
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    2,236
    See I've had incredible experiences on the HD2 29 x 2.35 soft snakeskin with insert as a rear tire in dry, rocky & loose terrain. It's my favorite overall tire and I've tried so many. Rolls darn well, and has great all around traction.

    I'm currently running the Rock Razor as a rear which makes me feel like I'm Nino Schurter or something cause it pedals so darn well, and in current Texas heat this really helps a lot. However, It's not a tire I'd leave on for AF or even some of our super steeps that require lots of braking.

    Don't ride in wet conditions, or leaves, or even soil, so can't comment on that.

    The MM 2.35 Addix is a solid front tire that rolls amazingly well, but i find it doesn't have the traction of other choices in the terrain I described above. I think a front should sort of put a bit more flat rubber down on rocky ground with hardpack underneath for optimum traction around here.

    Really all the Addix tires exhibit class leading rolling resistance for their relative traction levels, I just don't feel like they offer a good DHF comparable front tire. If they did, I'd run it up front.

  179. #179
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    520
    i've been on the 2.3 aggressor in the rear for about 1.5 years and i never really had any issues, except with mud/wet. i recently switched to a 2.4 dhr2 in the rear and i feel like my rear breaks loose a lot easier when cornering. if i lightly tap my rear brake during a turn, the dhr2 just breaks off then re-grips. the aggressor was felt a lot more stable if i tapped my brakes in a corner, it never broke loose at all.
    2017 yeti sb6c turq x01 eagle

  180. #180
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Posts
    1,135
    I just ordered a WTB Trail Boss for the rear and Vigilante for the front. 2.5 front/2.4 rear. Light/high grip for the front and light/fast rolling rear. I'm planning a trip to Colorado next weekend and I'll let you guys know how these perform.

  181. #181
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    2,236
    Quote Originally Posted by useport80 View Post
    i've been on the 2.3 aggressor in the rear for about 1.5 years and i never really had any issues, except with mud/wet. i recently switched to a 2.4 dhr2 in the rear and i feel like my rear breaks loose a lot easier when cornering. if i lightly tap my rear brake during a turn, the dhr2 just breaks off then re-grips. the aggressor was felt a lot more stable if i tapped my brakes in a corner, it never broke loose at all.
    Well, you shouldn't be tapping your brakes mid turn.
    The DHRII, to me, is a tire that has great traction and braking when straight up and down but doesn't do much else that well.

    Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

  182. #182
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    520
    Quote Originally Posted by Suns_PSD View Post
    Well, you shouldn't be tapping your brakes mid turn.
    The DHRII, to me, is a tire that has great traction and braking when straight up and down but doesn't do much else that well.

    Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk
    yeah i know. im just use to lightly trail braking sometimes while cornering.
    2017 yeti sb6c turq x01 eagle

  183. #183
    mtbr member
    Reputation: dirtrider76's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    2,060
    Quote Originally Posted by tweeder82o View Post
    you need to start your own thread describing all the tires in this manner
    Thanks but when would I ride then?

    Quote Originally Posted by Suns_PSD View Post
    See I've had incredible experiences on the HD2 29 x 2.35 soft snakeskin with insert as a rear tire in dry, rocky & loose terrain. It's my favorite overall tire and I've tried so many. Rolls darn well, and has great all around traction.

    I'm currently running the Rock Razor as a rear which makes me feel like I'm Nino Schurter or something cause it pedals so darn well, and in current Texas heat this really helps a lot. However, It's not a tire I'd leave on for AF or even some of our super steeps that require lots of braking.

    Don't ride in wet conditions, or leaves, or even soil, so can't comment on that.

    The MM 2.35 Addix is a solid front tire that rolls amazingly well, but i find it doesn't have the traction of other choices in the terrain I described above. I think a front should sort of put a bit more flat rubber down on rocky ground with hardpack underneath for optimum traction around here.

    Really all the Addix tires exhibit class leading rolling resistance for their relative traction levels, I just don't feel like they offer a good DHF comparable front tire. If they did, I'd run it up front.

    Hard pack here is typically got shale debris mixed in. Tears small knob tire like the HD apart pretty quick. Unfortunately different areas have different soil make up.

    Do the new Addix MM all have the same size knobs or are they like the SS vs. SG versions of old where the SG had bigger knobs? I'm on my last 2 old stock ones and the SG tread is much preferred. I'd be fully stoked to find addix balances out to a vertstar grip with the big knobs on a snakeskin casing. I'm sure that's just wishful thinking.

    Quote Originally Posted by useport80 View Post
    i've been on the 2.3 aggressor in the rear for about 1.5 years and i never really had any issues, except with mud/wet. i recently switched to a 2.4 dhr2 in the rear and i feel like my rear breaks loose a lot easier when cornering. if i lightly tap my rear brake during a turn, the dhr2 just breaks off then re-grips. the aggressor was felt a lot more stable if i tapped my brakes in a corner, it never broke loose at all.

    You need to really roll the DHR2 on its edge. It works straight line and carving the rest it's a bit vague. If your in that dead zone between the center tread and not on the edge it gonna be drifty and get worst when you get into the brake. That tire likes to be ridden hard and aggressively where the Aggressor is a bit more forgiving IMHO.
    I like to fart when I'm in front of you on a climb:skep:

  184. #184
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Posts
    104
    Just got a DHF 2.3 dual compound for front tire. I had a forekaster 2.35 maxxspeed before. I was expecting to feel the difference in rolling resistanceÖ very minimal, I even wonder if it is not as fast. I do not miss the forekaster up front, I cant believe I put up with this tire for so long. The DHF is so much better.

    Also, I did not feel the vague transition zone in cornering that other have reported, maybe its specific to wider DHF?

  185. #185
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Posts
    169
    The DHF (3C\EXO+) is a nice tire on dusty hard pack (bike park style) conditions, but as soon as it become full of mud with wet, slippery rocks and roots its not holding.

    that being said, I just destroyed (cut in the sidewall) the rear tire (DHR2\3C EXO+) and im not sure with what to replace it with, DHR2 with DD casing and keeping the DHF in the front even though im not a fan of it, or to change both of them to one of these combos -
    Assegai EXO+\DHR2 DD, DHR2 EXO+\DHR2 DD, Magic Mary SG soft front n' rear, or just go back to Magic Mary SG soft\Hans Dampf SG soft that i liked last season...

  186. #186
    Hitching a ride
    Reputation: Schulze's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    3,184
    The were cutting the trans knobs off of the Assegai at the last pro DH race because it was muddy.

  187. #187
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    396
    Quote Originally Posted by PhoS View Post
    Well.. yea.. Not sure why people feel the need slap on the biggest meats possible. I have a 2.5WT DHF up front on a 30mm ID wheel and it's massive. 2.6 is just ridiculous. The Maxxis 2.4 casing is a good happy medium size for aggressive trails, even a 2.35 is ok. Sure you wont be able to get away with 16psi or whatever you run a 2.6 at but it'll get the job done with ease.

    I'm also very curious about the new Michelin wild enduros. I'm probably gonna try those out next. Vittoria has some nice tires too, the Morsa looks like a good intermediate offering, I really liked the Goma previously. I'd prefer to keep my tires under 1000g, I don't have issues flatting EXO casings so no DD for me.
    thinking on tires and reading this statement about the 2.6dhf, I just wanted to comment as someone who has a 2.5wt and a 2.6 dhf, 2.6 is actually lighter. Larger volume, but not as big of knobs...

  188. #188
    Keep on Rockin...
    Reputation: Miker J's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Posts
    6,120
    Quote Originally Posted by Muddy-Runs View Post
    The DHF (3C\EXO+) is a nice tire on dusty hard pack (bike park style) conditions, but as soon as it become full of mud with wet, slippery rocks and roots its not holding.

    that being said, I just destroyed (cut in the sidewall) the rear tire (DHR2\3C EXO+) and im not sure with what to replace it with, DHR2 with DD casing and keeping the DHF in the front even though im not a fan of it, or to change both of them to one of these combos -
    Assegai EXO+\DHR2 DD, DHR2 EXO+\DHR2 DD, Magic Mary SG soft front n' rear, or just go back to Magic Mary SG soft\Hans Dampf SG soft that i liked last season...
    The DHF will pack up with sticky mud as will the Assegai. The HR is the equivalent made to not pack up. Aside from that issue the DHF in a 3c grips slick turf as well as any tire, the exception being the DHF in a SuperTacky.

  189. #189
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Gman086's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Posts
    4,657
    Quote Originally Posted by Miker J View Post
    The DHF will pack up with sticky mud as will the Assegai. The HR is the equivalent made to not pack up. Aside from that issue the DHF in a 3c grips slick turf as well as any tire, the exception being the DHF in a SuperTacky.
    TRUTH!

    I have to laugh when I hear youngsters complain about the wet grip of DHF's... Maxxis really screwed up with the whole 3C thing as it rolls slow and wears fast compared to dual compound and cannot hold a line on wet roots like the 42a "Super Tacky" fronts did. 3C = jack of all trades master of NONE! Maxxis... please PLEASE go back to the old compounds (for trail tires)!!!

    Have FUN!

    G MAN
    "There's two shuttles, one to the top and one to the hospital" I LOVE this place!!!

  190. #190
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Posts
    78
    Anyone else who's run a DHR2 front have problems with super abrupt wash outs? Im running a 2.4 3C front, and i've had like 4 instances where i've been riding pretty hard, the front feels solid, like i can push it pretty hard, then ill hit the next corner and suddenly.. nothing. completely and abruptly lose the front and smash the ground. I dont know what it is but it's happened more on this tire than ive had happen on any other.

    Maybe the e13 i had before ruined me, the squareish profile and giant tacky side knobs made it so easy to smash the front end into corners without worrying..

  191. #191
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    3,446
    Quote Originally Posted by scandy1 View Post
    Maybe the e13 i had before ruined me, the squareish profile and giant tacky side knobs made it so easy to smash the front end into corners without worrying..
    If you're used to the e13 or Michelin Wild Rock'r2 side knobs, you're not going to have a happy time when you go back to pretty much any other tire. There's a ton of stuff you could get away with before that will now get you splatted, adjust your riding accordingly.

  192. #192
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Posts
    302
    Quote Originally Posted by scandy1 View Post
    Anyone else who's run a DHR2 front have problems with super abrupt wash outs? Im running a 2.4 3C front, and i've had like 4 instances where i've been riding pretty hard, the front feels solid, like i can push it pretty hard, then ill hit the next corner and suddenly.. nothing. completely and abruptly lose the front and smash the ground. I dont know what it is but it's happened more on this tire than ive had happen on any other.

    Maybe the e13 i had before ruined me, the squareish profile and giant tacky side knobs made it so easy to smash the front end into corners without worrying..
    I have the same tire as you front and rear and have never had an issue. I think the tire pressure is the thing to look out for though because I find the DHR2 somewhat drifty and squirrely in the transition zone if the tire pressure is too high yet its totally fine if its low enough. I guess experiment with the pressure some more and see, if you are riding with it in the mid-20s or even in the lower 20s to an extent then it may suddenly drift out suddenly but below that is fine for me (on 30mm internal width rims).

  193. #193
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    2,236
    DHR2 doesn't lean that well, it just doesn't. Not a good tire to lean over far on flattish ground which is why I removed it as a front after 2-4 rides.

    Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

  194. #194
    Perpetual Hack
    Reputation: mykel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    2,137
    Quote Originally Posted by Suns_PSD View Post
    DHR2 doesn't lean that well, it just doesn't. Not a good tire to lean over far on flattish ground which is why I removed it as a front after 2-4 rides.

    Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk
    Trimming it solves this problem.
    Hatched in '64
    A Dirtbag since '69
    A Knomer since '07

    Knolly Fugitive
    Knolly Podium
    Knolly Endorphin
    Knolly Delirium

  195. #195
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Gman086's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Posts
    4,657
    Quote Originally Posted by mykel View Post
    Trimming it solves this problem.
    Exactly! If you're gonna run a DHR2 as a front or a Dissector as a rear (other than park use) you had better get out the razor blades. It's not rocket science to figure this out and they work fantastic when cut. I think a lot of readers are afraid to "mess them up" yet the pros cut their tires for their specific needs all the time so...

    Have FUN!

    G MAN
    "There's two shuttles, one to the top and one to the hospital" I LOVE this place!!!

  196. #196
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    2,236
    Cut them how? Photo?

  197. #197
    Perpetual Hack
    Reputation: mykel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    2,137
    Quote Originally Posted by Suns_PSD View Post
    Cut them how? Photo?
    How can you not like the DHF/DHRII???-maxdhrcut.jpg

    Kidwoo did a write up on Blister a few years ago.
    End of page 4, he talks about trimming.

    Full Article
    Hatched in '64
    A Dirtbag since '69
    A Knomer since '07

    Knolly Fugitive
    Knolly Podium
    Knolly Endorphin
    Knolly Delirium

  198. #198
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Posts
    4
    Quote Originally Posted by Gman086 View Post
    If you're gonna run a DHR2 as a front or a Dissector as a rear (other than park use) you had better get out the razor blades.
    Really interested on your thoughts regarding the dissector.

    I just picked up a dissector for my rear tire to replace a DHR2 - looking for something with less rolling resistance but not give up too much in loose over hard conditions. It looked like this tire was marketed as a rear enduro tire, to be paired with an assegai front. Where does it fall flat out of the box in your opinion? What modification do you think makes it perform at it's fullest? Trimming that inner middle knob to be in line with the two smaller ones?

  199. #199
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Gman086's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Posts
    4,657
    ^^For park use, shuttling and enduro racing leave it alone. For trail/all mountain use where you need climbing traction, then yes, you will have to cut the leading edge of those large middle knobs back some which will also make it slightly slower rolling but still faster than a DHR2. I've got a pic of my cut in the Dissector thread.

    Have FUN!

    G
    "There's two shuttles, one to the top and one to the hospital" I LOVE this place!!!

  200. #200
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Posts
    38
    Quote Originally Posted by Gman086 View Post
    Exactly! If you're gonna run a DHR2 as a front or a Dissector as a rear (other than park use) you had better get out the razor blades. It's not rocket science to figure this out and they work fantastic when cut. I think a lot of readers are afraid to "mess them up" yet the pros cut their tires for their specific needs all the time so...

    Have FUN!

    G MAN
    Yeah I think Iíll give trimming them a shot. I was thinking the wider center tread blocks might have something to do with it.

    Most the instances where Iíve lost the front abruptly is at moderate lean angles, but where Iím still cornering somewhat hard, either because itís a short quick corner or really low grip stuff where I donít wanna just abruptly lean the bike hard cause Iím unsure of traction. Probably at those moderate lean angles, the fronts just resting on those center blocks, and the side knobs never get a chance to engage so front just completely gives out.

    two were on really loose marbles, one on pretty grippy loose over hard, high speed but easy corner where you donít need to corner hard, so I typically donít lean it much, just a quick little direction change but this time it literally felt like as I pushed into the handlebar I was pushing into nothing, just totally gave way with no resistance, pretty freaky.

    Iíll try trimming them but likely Iíll go back to a dhf or maybe give the dissector a try

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. 2015 Nobby Nic vs. Maxxis DHF/DHRII
    By bobsaget in forum Wheels and Tires
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: 10-03-2017, 11:36 AM
  2. Front tire: DHF 2.5" --> DHRII 2.3"?
    By bobsaget in forum Wheels and Tires
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 02-08-2017, 10:36 PM
  3. DHF WT/DHRII WT for a 2015 Devinci Troy
    By Smokee300 in forum Wheels and Tires
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 09-28-2016, 07:27 AM
  4. Maxxis DHRII, DHF and HRII in +Plus+ sizes
    By dustyduke22 in forum 26+/27.5+/29+ Plus Bikes
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: 03-03-2016, 09:29 AM
  5. Minion DHF/DHF or DHF/DHR for Downieville?
    By Taz8 in forum California - Norcal
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 07-13-2007, 02:22 PM

Members who have read this thread: 698

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

THE SITE

ABOUT MTBR

VISIT US AT

© Copyright 2019 VerticalScope Inc. All rights reserved.