Has anyone ridden the Zipp 3zero Motos yet?- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Has anyone ridden the Zipp 3zero Motos yet?

    My original wheel builder fell through (donít ask) and Iím now looking at other options.

    The shop building up my bike is getting a set of the 29Ē Zipp 3zero Motos on Thursday and they are mine if I want them.

    Ive seen the videos, and read the comments from the armchair engineers, but what Id really like to hear form people who have actually ridden them.

    Any experience out there?

  2. #2
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    Well, looks like Iím one of the first. My bike isnít complete yet as we are still waiting on a dropper post. But the Zipp 3zero Motos came in and they look pretty cool.

    The rims ďfeelĒ very similar weights to the Enves they had on for mock up while building the bike.

    The profiles are so very different. Visually the difference is instantly apparent. The Zips look sort of like an aluminum rim done in carbon.

    The felt plenty stiff in my hands, but that is meaningless. Iím hoping to get out and ride them this weekend.

    The hubs are on the noisy side, but not obnoxious, just not quiet.

    I personally really like the unique carbon weave. While not up to supercar standards, it looks to be well done.

    Has anyone ridden the Zipp 3zero Motos yet?-10adc058-208e-4857-b306-6f5a2f0033e4.jpg

    Has anyone ridden the Zipp 3zero Motos yet?-92b5bac6-0446-4066-8049-20d4dcca0ed9.jpg

    Has anyone ridden the Zipp 3zero Motos yet?-3b393a19-5a94-4aad-bf02-60049274c097.jpg

  3. #3
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    are you a roadie? I am curious what drew you to these. previous experience with Zipp on a road bike is my first guess. that appearance is unique, but I'm sure it is a veneer; top layer only, if you prefer.

    I have not researched them extensively but one look at the weight and price made me look elsewhere. there are many wheels and rims either lighter or cheaper, and some that are both.

  4. #4
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    Never been a roadie.

    Iím not sold on the weight issue at these tiny differences. Hereís a great quote from Bike Radar:

    ďFor a system weight (bike and rider) of 100kg, youíd need at least a 500g difference in combined rim weight to make a 1 percent difference to accelerationĒ

    Similarly priced carbon rims from premier name brands (some cost a little less, some cost much more):

    Enve (1789 gm)
    Ibis (1690-1748 gm)
    SC Reserve (1811 gm)
    We_Are_One Agent (1803)

    In real world riding most of these come close enough to the Zipp 3zero Moto rims (1910 gm). The difference in weights in your tire choice are often higher. Especially if you want durability and compliance.

    Running double down casings and cushcore to stop pinch flats likely adds as much or more weight than the difference in the wheels.

    Most of the above mentioned rims would be over the Zipp weight if you had to include Cushcore (260 gm) to get the protection and dampening (compliance) offered by rims like the Zipp 3zero Moto (1910 gm) and the Crank Bros Synthesis (1829 gm) offer.

    The Crank Bros Synthesis were also a rim I was interested in, but they were even more expensive.

    Iíve done the super rigid carbons before. My last bike (Ibis HD3) had a an aluminum rim on it (Ibis 738), and I frankly loved the way those felt. Iím hoping the Zips feel like more like the aluminum rims but have the strength of the carbon hoops.

    Hey, if no one tries the new ideas, there will be no new ideas.

    If I find I prefer the ride and carry a few hundred grams, Iím happy.
    If I find I donít have to run inserts and or double down casings there might not even be a weight penalty

    Ride report when I get some miles on them

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by ColinL View Post
    there are many wheels and rims either lighter or cheaper, and some that are both.

    You write that as if weight and cost are the most important metrics to consider with wheels.

    They are 2 of the top 5, but not the top 2.

    I'd love to try these Zipp's. Eventually I will.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    You write that as if weight and cost are the most important metrics to consider with wheels.

    They are 2 of the top 5, but not the top 2.

    I'd love to try these Zipp's. Eventually I will.
    I agree 100% with your comment.

    On my most recent build I went SRAM AXS XX1 to save the weight. I felt that made sense and for my riding there was no downside having the weight removed there.

    For the wheels, I really wanted more feel and compliance. Especially since I was moving from an aluminum wheeled 27.5 to my first 29er.

    Iím interested in this idea of the tire, wheel, fork being considered a holistic suspension and dampening system.

    I personally think there will be a lot of new developments in this ďsystemĒ over the next few years.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    You write that as if weight and cost are the most important metrics to consider with wheels.

    They are 2 of the top 5, but not the top 2.

    I'd love to try these Zipp's. Eventually I will.
    Sure. Another one is durability which we can't ever truly know except for a) user feedback and we know some riders are harsher than others, and some riders don't put much air in their tires, and

    b) warranty.

    These do have a lifetime warranty. AFAIK Santa Cruz was first to market with that (June 2017) and I'm thrilled other brands are following suit. And I say this as a person who has never broken a rim of any kind.

  8. #8
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    Correct, itís hard to measure the durability without a really large sample base. The anecdotal evidence of a few riders isnít going to give a lot of insight because there are so many variables.

    The fact these have already podiumed with top riders is a good sign. Top tier riders likely put more stress on a wheel in one run than I might in a whole season

    Plus they are heavily warrantied and my local bike shop carries them. So Iím hoping if I have an issue, it can be taken care of.

    Iíll let you guys know what I think once I get a few miles on them.

  9. #9
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    Looking forward to your feedback.

    I like your thinking re: "Iím interested in this idea of the tire, wheel, fork being considered a holistic suspension and dampening system.

    I personally think there will be a lot of new developments in this ďsystemĒ over the next few years."


    I'd expand this to include the frame itself - I remember that when Dave Turner released his first carbon frame (Czar 29er XC bike), he spend a lot of time getting the stiffness he wanted in the direction he wanted (i think it was front-back).

    Members on another site (whose name starts with P) often state that they're happier with traditional carbon rims on alu frames than carbon frames.

    I'm excited buy the current trends re: carbon rims

  10. #10
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    Yeah these guys are looking at the whole bike as a suspension system, by integrating the front and rear suspensions as an integral part of the frame design, not a bolt on.

    Very curious to see how they ride.

    https://structure.bike/

    Quote Originally Posted by PuddleDuck View Post
    Looking forward to your feedback.

    I like your thinking re: "Iím interested in this idea of the tire, wheel, fork being considered a holistic suspension and dampening system.

    I personally think there will be a lot of new developments in this ďsystemĒ over the next few years."


    I'd expand this to include the frame itself - I remember that when Dave Turner released his first carbon frame (Czar 29er XC bike), he spend a lot of time getting the stiffness he wanted in the direction he wanted (i think it was front-back).

    Members on another site (whose name starts with P) often state that they're happier with traditional carbon rims on alu frames than carbon frames.

    I'm excited buy the current trends re: carbon rims

  11. #11
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    I have 9 or so rides on these rims and Iím loving them so far.

    This Ripmo is my first 29Ē build, Iím filming from 27.5Ē Ibis HD3. So I don't have a lot of experience on this wheel size. My Ibis HD3 had a set of the ibis 738 aluminum rims, my Fatbike was aSalsa Carbon Bucksaw had a set of 26Ē Whiskey carbon rims with a set of 4Ē tires.

    My thoughts:
    At first the 29Ē wheels felt strange, but I quickly got over that. What I have noticed is the obvious increase in roll over. My speeds seemed to increase and frankly I have been able to just bomb through the rocks and rock gardens on my local trails. Some of that is down to the wheel size, but some might be the rims.

    The bike is beautifully compliant (suspension dialled in with ShockWiz). Itís just feels connected to the trail and steady. No harshness, no buzzing in my hands, no surprises. The steering is perfect and I get a sense of what is happening underneath my wheels.

    I ride a lot of Canadian Shield, likely similar to North Eastern USA. A third of the time Iím riding trails that are at least a third rock plus roots. These trails are murder on rims and mine still look fantastic and are staying true.

    For my type of riding these seem to be really working out.

  12. #12
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    Thanks for the report. Can you tell us more about the hubs?

  13. #13
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    I dont have a lot to say and thats likely a good thing. They engage quickly, even in technical terrain and rocks. I never find my self looking for more of a direct connection.

    They arenít quiet, but they wont likely be the loudest hubs on any trail

  14. #14
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    Just noticed something interesting while researching these wheels. From the user manual pdf:

    Max Recommended System Weight (Bike, Rider, and Equipment): 250 lbs / 120 kg

    Say you have a slim build of a bike at 30lbs, your carrying 2L of water at 4.2lbs, your trail essentials ring in at 5lbs (food, maint and repair), then your riding gear adds another 5lbs. that would make the max rider weight 205lbs to stay within Zipps recommendations. seems like a low upper limit....i know a boat load of non fat dudes that hit that mark easily.

    https://www.zipp.com/static/pdf/95-1...eels_Rev_A.pdf

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    Just built up a 29Ē set laced to original Onyx hubs.

    One thing I can comment on is that the rim is definitely flexible! Before lacing the wheel, I flexed the hoop by hand and it deformed a shocking amount. Compared to a box section rim, the radial and torsional flex was night and day.

    The build up on these was a bit more involved than Iím used to with carbon rims. Definitely feels more like building an alloy rim. With a stiff box section rim, its nearly impossible to even get the rim to go out of true, whereas if you get sloppy with your assembly, the 3motos will happily go wildly out of true. Theyíre no harder to build up than an alloy rim, but theyíre just not immediately and always straight like most carbon hoops Iíve worked with.

    More updates to come once I get them on my bike and log some miles.

  16. #16
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    Looking forward to hearing your thoughts on these once you have a few rides.

    I love mine, but I havenít ridden this bike with other rims, nor have I ridden another 29 er. What I can say is my Ripmo feels precise, easy to keep on course and rarely if ever punishing. How much of that is these rims or the platform, hard to say.

    But, wheels stay true, tires stay inflated and I keep loving the way it goes through whatever I point it through.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by tdc_worm View Post
    Just noticed something interesting while researching these wheels. From the user manual pdf:

    Max Recommended System Weight (Bike, Rider, and Equipment): 250 lbs / 120 kg

    Say you have a slim build of a bike at 30lbs, your carrying 2L of water at 4.2lbs, your trail essentials ring in at 5lbs (food, maint and repair), then your riding gear adds another 5lbs. that would make the max rider weight 205lbs to stay within Zipps recommendations. seems like a low upper limit....i know a boat load of non fat dudes that hit that mark easily.

    https://www.zipp.com/static/pdf/95-1...eels_Rev_A.pdf
    I exceed the weight limit for these rims. Thank you! I know that i'm too heavy for some bike parts to work effectively, and it sucks to figure that out firsthand. Kudos to zipp for identifying their target rider and making a product specifically for them.
    "Things that are complex are not useful, Things that are useful are simple."
    Mikhail Kalashnikov

  18. #18
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    I contacted Zipp and the actual max system weight is 275lbs not 250lbs. The 250 is a misprint.

  19. #19
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    Thanks for the reviews everyone. Great info so far. I really like these rims. Edit:I like these rims but have not tried them yet. I hope I can demo a set, Wrenchsience bike shop has alot of Zipp wheels go through that shop.
    Last edited by hoolie; 07-30-2019 at 06:22 PM.

  20. #20
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    Just got done with my first ride on the Zipp rims, and my initial impression is good! I rode four lift served bike park laps that had a good mix of flow/jump trail, rock gardens, loose blown out trail, and some regular intermediate trail riding.

    When just riding along, I noticed a slight reduction in the vibration and buzz transmitted through the bike. This effect was subtle, possibly because Iím running heavy Double Down casing tires. Itíll be interesting to ride them with lighter trail tires.

    In rock gardens, things definitely felt less harsh, and more under control than my previous wheels. I suspect these are going to be the ticket for blasting through chunky rocky sections at high speed. The ďankle effectĒ was particularly noticable when Iíd hit a rock at an angle but not be deflected as much as Iím used to.

    I did manage to jump 20í and land with my rear tire directly on a jagged rock, and as far as I can tell, the tire didnít bottom out on the rim, a bit to my surprise. Iím kind of thinking that might have been a pinch on another wheel setup. More time and similar impacts required to determine if they actually do cut down on pinch flats.

    To be clear, the difference was subtle, and most of the time they felt mostly like a nice wheel, but nothing crazy. But they do really seem to shine when it comes to off camber impacts like you frequently encounter in a rock garden.

    Edit: second ride update. These rims really are something special. I spent a good portion of this ride intentionally deciding to hit rocks at an angle, and the difference in deflection was noticeable. Rocky sections are less jarring, especially so when on edge and railing a chunky corner. These rims really do seem to have a magic carpet effect to them. I also smacked the rear hard again, this time to the point that I heard the rim strike. No pinch, Iím stoked. I think Iím gonna wind up fanatically in love with these wheels.
    Last edited by MegaStoke; 08-04-2019 at 01:52 PM.

  21. #21
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    Any updates?

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    Ive been riding these for the full summer and they have held up perfectly. Zero issues to report. I ride a lot of rocks and roots and they still look nearly new. Still true as the day I bought them. Any fears about ankle compliance causing issues with spoke tension etc seems not to be an issue to really worry about.

    Best part about them is they feel fantastic to ride.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackPenquinn View Post
    Ive been riding these for the full summer and they have held up perfectly. Zero issues to report. I ride a lot of rocks and roots and they still look nearly new. Still true as the day I bought them. Any fears about ankle compliance causing issues with spoke tension etc seems not to be an issue to really worry about.

    Best part about them is they feel fantastic to ride.
    Thanks. What did you ride before?

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  24. #24
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    My last bike was an IBIS HD3 running the 738 Ibis aluminum rims (27.5). Before that I had a Salsa Bucksaw with a set of Whisky Carbon Rims.

    My feeling with the Zips is they are not harsh, but its very easy to pick a line and I never feel any squirm.

    For me as an ex track guy they remind me of my Lotus race car. Stiff but compliant. I always hated overly stiff track cars and I feel the same way about my Mountain Bikes.

  25. #25
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    Iíve been loving my wheels with the Zipp rims. The compliance is a night and day difference to my previous Derby wheelset. The best analogy for how they ride is like a good crud ski. They definitely help absorb chunky terrain and vibrations, but donít feel noodly or flimsy in the slightest. They track like a dream in chunky rock gardens, better than any other wheel Iíve ridden.

    Iíve been beating the absolute piss out of mine, and have smacked them good and hard a bunch of times now. A few of which would have been wheel breakers on lesser rims. When you hit them, they respond with a dull somewhat wooden thud, instead of the usual harsh clang or crack that weíve all come to dread. Iíve also not had one flat while running these, despite having taken hard hits a bunch of times that would have almost certainly pinched on my previous setup.

    They are very confidence inspiring for me, and Iíve gotten a ton of DH PRs, and a handful of KOMs since switching wheelsets, which I give substantial credit to these wheels. Theyíre holding up great so far, with approx 500-700 very heavy duty miles on them, they still have perfect true and tension balance. I was a bit concerned with how theyíd hold true while building them due to their flexibility, but those concerns have seemed to be unfounded so far.

    In short, Im of the opinion that thereís really something to these hoops, and am guessing that once the word gets out, a lot of hard charging enduro types will wind up riding them. They can take a beating, seem to reduce the incidence of pinch flats, and ride awesome when blasting through the gnar gnar.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by MegaStoke View Post
    Iíve been loving my wheels with the Zipp rims. The compliance is a night and day difference to my previous Derby wheelset. The best analogy for how they ride is like a good crud ski. They definitely help absorb chunky terrain and vibrations, but donít feel noodly or flimsy in the slightest. They track like a dream in chunky rock gardens, better than any other wheel Iíve ridden.

    Iíve been beating the absolute piss out of mine, and have smacked them good and hard a bunch of times now. A few of which would have been wheel breakers on lesser rims. When you hit them, they respond with a dull somewhat wooden thud, instead of the usual harsh clang or crack that weíve all come to dread. Iíve also not had one flat while running these, despite having taken hard hits a bunch of times that would have almost certainly pinched on my previous setup.

    They are very confidence inspiring for me, and Iíve gotten a ton of DH PRs, and a handful of KOMs since switching wheelsets, which I give substantial credit to these wheels. Theyíre holding up great so far, with approx 500-700 very heavy duty miles on them, they still have perfect true and tension balance. I was a bit concerned with how theyíd hold true while building them due to their flexibility, but those concerns have seemed to be unfounded so far.

    In short, Im of the opinion that thereís really something to these hoops, and am guessing that once the word gets out, a lot of hard charging enduro types will wind up riding them. They can take a beating, seem to reduce the incidence of pinch flats, and ride awesome when blasting through the gnar gnar.
    Thanks for the feedback. They are substantially heavier than others. Can you feel the weight?

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  27. #27
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    Not sure the weight differences count as ďsubstantialĒ
    I pasted my thoughts on that weight issue earlier. Here you go:

    ó

    Iím not sold on the weight issue at these tiny differences. Hereís a great quote from Bike Radar:

    ďFor a system weight (bike and rider) of 100kg, youíd need at least a 500g difference in combined rim weight to make a 1 percent difference to accelerationĒ

    Similarly priced carbon rims from premier name brands (some cost a little less, some cost much more):

    Enve (1789 gm)
    Ibis (1690-1748 gm)
    SC Reserve (1811 gm)
    We_Are_One Agent (1803 gm)
    Crank Bros Synthesis (1829 gm)
    Zipp 3zero Moto (1910 gm)

    In real world riding most of these come close enough to the Zipp 3zero Moto rims (1910 gm). The difference in weights in your tire choice are often higher. Especially if you want durability and compliance.

    Running double down casings and cushcore to stop pinch flats likely adds as much or more weight than the difference in the wheels.

    Most of the above mentioned rims would be over the Zipp weight if you had to include Cushcore (260 gm) to get the protection and dampening (compliance) offered by rims like the Zipp 3zero Moto (1910 gm) and the Crank Bros Synthesis (1829 gm) offer.

  28. #28
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    Iím curious if those using these have thoughts on whether they notice a bigger difference on the front vs. rear? If Iím not mistaken CB Synthesis uses a compliant front and stiff rear rim for improved steering vs. tracking.

    Per post above, I also wonder how a normal carbon rim with CushCore and lower pressure would compare to a Moto. Seems like many of the same goals, and achieving compliance by tuning the ~2.5Ē of rubber and foam wrapped around the rim seems more intuitive (and cheaper) than a compliant carbon rim.

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    Technically Cushcore wouldn't create the same ďcomplianceĒ but would instead dampen the tire. From the riders perspective it might Have the same effect.

    I like the simplicity of the Zipps, in fact I think Iím going to try and run non double down Maxxims this coming season.

    You would need to get your total rim weight down to 1650 gm to make the rim + Cushcore weigh the same as the Zipps. But Iím sure there are many ways to solve the same problem.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrewBird View Post
    Iím curious if those using these have thoughts on whether they notice a bigger difference on the front vs. rear? If Iím not mistaken CB Synthesis uses a compliant front and stiff rear rim for improved steering vs. tracking.

    Per post above, I also wonder how a normal carbon rim with CushCore and lower pressure would compare to a Moto. Seems like many of the same goals, and achieving compliance by tuning the ~2.5Ē of rubber and foam wrapped around the rim seems more intuitive (and cheaper) than a compliant carbon rim.
    I've never ridden the Moto3 wheels but I tried to emulate the compliance and build of the Synthesis wheels by combining various parts. Basically I used the relatively inexpensive Carbon Fan wheels in a Front: 33mm ID, 28 spoke, AM layup & Rear: 29mm ID, 32 spoke, DH layup. I combined that with my favorite hubs (Project 321s) & Berd spokes (these are basically rope spokes and are a bit compliant while being stronger than steel).

    I will be able to weigh the actual wheels this Wednesday when they arrive, but I'm guestimating the wheel weight to be under 1600g.

    Not interested in running without tire inserts because they allow me to run the air pressures I want to while protecting my wheel investment. Tubolight has got inserts that weigh only 72 grams so that's what I'll be installing in the new wheels.

    Just another route to consider.

    PS. I didn't save any money going this route but I'm hoping for a better/ faster end result.

  31. #31
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    I'm so close to getting those Tubolight inserts. Interested in hearing your report, Suns! I'm usually the guinea pig on new stuff so I'll let you take the lead on this one.

  32. #32
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    I think the interesting aspect of these is that it's a new design that's inherently much more resistant to rim strikes. It's not like cushioning less robust designs by sticking plastic foam in the tires. That they're expensive is a given since it's Zipp (Enve would be worse). I imagine sooner or later rims like this will become available from less expensive suppliers. Until then, you gotta pay to play, or stick plastic foam in your tires.
    What, me worry?

  33. #33
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    Why is it more resistant to rim strikes? Is it thicker therefore more durable, flange angled differently, or cause the ankle complaince moves it out of the way?
    For me, inserts are a requirement to make tires work correctly unless you go to a DH casing, at which point they roll poorly. So I'm running inserts no matter what front and rear.

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    The rim is super thick compared to a box section carbon rim, which certainly seems like should make for a robust rim. That, and the flexible nature of the rim(not just torsionally, but vertically) allows the rim to bend out of the way when hit, then snap back. Rim strikes definitely feel different on this rim than on any alloy or carbon rim I've ridden. Think Thud instead of Clang or Crack.

    I think the combo of the Zipp rims, EXO or EXO+ Tires, and CushCore XC inserts is going to be the holy grail for me. I've got the CushCores on the way and will start smashing them ASAP.

  35. #35
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    I am wondering how they would do with the Berg spokes.

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  36. #36
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    i've blown my fair share of carbon hoops from all the big vendors. heretofore, i have been running DH layups, DH casings for lift served and DD for trail, and cushcore. i have two rides on my 3zero's. as a disclaimer: i built them up with vesper, myself, and it was my first wheelbuild. these hoops, out of the box, will make you fear for you life in comparison to a boxed hoop. you can twist the ankle flex by hand and egg the hoop with decent pressure.

    after two rides, my spoke tension is just under the naked (i.e. no mounted tire) build recommendation, and the high tension sides are still perfectly uniform. i tried to detension them as completely as possible, so my guess is the DD casings and air pressure are the result of the lower tension. i will give them another couple of rides before i break the beads and snug the nips, if needed.

    i run 26 front, 32 rear psi on 29 hoops (215lbs). i dont screw w low pressures...when i stopped that, i stopped breaking carbon. really only two things i can comment with on feel:

    1) at low speed, i *think* i can feel the wheel loading/unloading and deflecting when doing slow speed technical stuff. this could be the lack of cushcore providing rubber support, or the twist in the rim. at speed, i dont feel it. it doesn't negatively affect the stopwatch...its just a feel.
    2) on drops to harsh/flat landings or big square edges, the 120mm test mule *feels* like it has picked up travel. Those hard hits *feel* smoothed out and maybe there was less noise?. not sure if it affects the stopwatch.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by MegaStoke View Post
    The rim is super thick compared to a box section carbon rim, which certainly seems like should make for a robust rim. That, and the flexible nature of the rim(not just torsionally, but vertically) allows the rim to bend out of the way when hit, then snap back. Rim strikes definitely feel different on this rim than on any alloy or carbon rim I've ridden. Think Thud instead of Clang or Crack.

    I think the combo of the Zipp rims, EXO or EXO+ Tires, and CushCore XC inserts is going to be the holy grail for me. I've got the CushCores on the way and will start smashing them ASAP.
    What about the piiiiiinggggg sound? J/ k. That's the sound that I get when I smack, but don't break. The breaks just sound like the loudest thud ever.

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  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by tdc_worm View Post
    these hoops, out of the box, will make you fear for you life in comparison to a boxed hoop. you can twist the ankle flex by hand and egg the hoop with decent pressure.
    This is pretty interesting! Seems for years the selling point of carbon rims was ďstiff! so stiff!Ē So clearly these are going in a pretty different direction. Iíd presume theyíre tougher to build and require a keen eye to radial trueness.

    This also makes me wonder how catastrophic a broken spoke would be on the trail; with box section carbon it seems like you could lose about half the spokes and the wheel would stay true, not the case with these I suppose. Some of the videos when these came out seemed to show significant spoke flex due to the rim moving around, so Iím curious how the whole system will hold up long term. Please post some longer-term feedback once you have more miles on them!

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    Quote Originally Posted by DrewBird View Post
    This is pretty interesting! Seems for years the selling point of carbon rims was ďstiff! so stiff!Ē So clearly these are going in a pretty different direction. Iíd presume theyíre tougher to build and require a keen eye to radial trueness.

    This also makes me wonder how catastrophic a broken spoke would be on the trail; with box section carbon it seems like you could lose about half the spokes and the wheel would stay true, not the case with these I suppose. Some of the videos when these came out seemed to show significant spoke flex due to the rim moving around, so Iím curious how the whole system will hold up long term. Please post some longer-term feedback once you have more miles on them!
    forgive me if i misspeak as i am new to wheel building and just starting to tease some of the black magic out of the art....so here goes:

    ---by the manufacturing process alone, any carbon hoops are going to be more uniform [assuming the mold is uniform] than an alloy hoop that is wrapped and welded. if you start with precise nipple engagement and add uniform tension around the wheel in small steps, you end up with a fairly uniform result. at least that was my experience....they werent difficult to true at all.
    ---the radial stiffness has as much to do with spoke tension as it does the stiffness of the carbon hoop. Zipp wants 115 kg/f as a target, +/- 10, Nobl likes 125-135 kf/f as a target. So Zipp is willing to tolerate a much looser wheelset to begin with, hence the increased spoke deflection.
    ---from my understanding, spokes break due to too much tension. too little tension results in a wheel that continues to loosen? i am sure at some point the repeated cycling/flexing of a spoke will result in failure, also, but in my reading i haven't uncovered that as a primary concern.

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by tdc_worm View Post
    forgive me if i misspeak as i am new to wheel building and just starting to tease some of the black magic out of the art....so here goes:

    ---by the manufacturing process alone, any carbon hoops are going to be more uniform [assuming the mold is uniform] than an alloy hoop that is wrapped and welded. if you start with precise nipple engagement and add uniform tension around the wheel in small steps, you end up with a fairly uniform result. at least that was my experience....they werent difficult to true at all.
    ---the radial stiffness has as much to do with spoke tension as it does the stiffness of the carbon hoop. Zipp wants 115 kg/f as a target, +/- 10, Nobl likes 125-135 kf/f as a target. So Zipp is willing to tolerate a much looser wheelset to begin with, hence the increased spoke deflection.
    ---from my understanding, spokes break due to too much tension. too little tension results in a wheel that continues to loosen? i am sure at some point the repeated cycling/flexing of a spoke will result in failure, also, but in my reading i haven't uncovered that as a primary concern.
    I'm with you in terms of wheel building, I've done a half dozen but am no expert.

    I'm sure it's not too tough to build a true and round wheel with these. I just meant that in my experience, a wide carbon box section rim is unfailingly round and once built you can basically remove a couple spokes and it'll stay true, because it's so damn stiff. No way to get a wobble or hop in one of those unless you really screw up. That was in the design parameters (stiffness always better) until pretty recently. I'd assume the Moto would be more susceptible to losing lateral and radial trueness if spoke tension changes or if you break a spoke.

    Re: spoke fatigue, I think the heads of J-bend spokes are a frequent site of fatigue failure, so I'd wonder if significant loosening/tightening cycles caused by rim flex would exacerbate that.

    In general I think it's a really cool and innovative item, and I hope it works well and pushes the market.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tdc_worm View Post
    ---the radial stiffness has as much to do with spoke tension as it does the stiffness of the carbon hoop. Zipp wants 115 kg/f as a target, +/- 10, Nobl likes 125-135 kf/f as a target. So Zipp is willing to tolerate a much looser wheelset to begin with, hence the increased spoke deflection.

    There is no meaningful difference in radial stiffness between those two tensions. Put differently, a final tension of 115kg is not "much looser" -- it is still plenty tight.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    There is no meaningful difference in radial stiffness between those two tensions. Put differently, a final tension of 115kg is not "much looser" -- it is still plenty tight.
    i hear ya. but what about the 3zero's at their lower limit of 105 vs Noble at their upper limit of 135? is there no meaningful difference there w a 30 kg/f swing? i realize we are taking this off topic...just trying to learn....

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    My feeling has been that the Synthesis wheels are a better solution than the Zipps because while complaince in the front is great, it's not as desirable in the rear. Particularly for stronger faster riders.
    The new PB Zipp review sort of confirms that imo and it leaves one questioning what's the advantage over Al at all in the case of the Zipps?
    Also the Synthesis wheels are lighter, less money, with better hubs. Lastly the Synthesis wheels had better times in the worldwide cyclery review.
    That's my opinion anyways.

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  45. #45
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    What, me worry?

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Suns_PSD View Post
    My feeling has been that the Synthesis wheels are a better solution than the Zipps because while complaince in the front is great, it's not as desirable in the rear. Particularly for stronger faster riders.
    The new PB Zipp review sort of confirms that imo and it leaves one questioning what's the advantage over Al at all in the case of the Zipps?
    Also the Synthesis wheels are lighter, less money, with better hubs. Lastly the Synthesis wheels had better times in the worldwide cyclery review.
    That's my opinion anyways.

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    Or one could just use a Zipp up front and something else out back. Agreed I probably wouldnít put a Zipp on the back.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DrewBird View Post
    Or one could just use a Zipp up front and something else out back. Agreed I probably wouldnít put a Zipp on the back.
    I suppose, but why when you can buy a matching set that does what you want that's also lighter?
    Certainly these wheels will be killer for many riders, however it's not the solution I'd choose.

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    I have 5 rides on them (from jump to tech trails). As far as solutions are concerned, under my slender 215 lb arse they:

    1) haven't broken
    2) haven't pinch flatted
    3) haven't made me slower
    4) haven't made me pine for an insert (or the weight associated with them)
    5) have muted some of the harsher impacts on trails that require all 120mm of travel on my current trail bike.

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Suns_PSD View Post
    I suppose, but why when you can buy a matching set that does what you want that's also lighter?
    Certainly these wheels will be killer for many riders, however it's not the solution I'd choose.

    Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk
    For sure, if you're buying all new.

    I have a set of 5 year old Ibis carbon rims on nice I9 hubs. Really stiff wheels. I'm considering getting a Moto or Synthesis rim and building it into a front wheel on those hubs, but would keep the rear as-is.

    My point is that is seems like the new "compliant" carbon rim trend is most useful up front, while somewhat stiffer and narrower "classic carbon" rims remain a good option in back.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DrewBird View Post
    For sure, if you're buying all new.

    I have a set of 5 year old Ibis carbon rims on nice I9 hubs. Really stiff wheels. I'm considering getting a Moto or Synthesis rim and building it into a front wheel on those hubs, but would keep the rear as-is.

    My point is that is seems like the new "compliant" carbon rim trend is most useful up front, while somewhat stiffer and narrower "classic carbon" rims remain a good option in back.
    That seems like a reasonable plan. Only problem is that you'll have a Frankenbike setup which while likely working great, won't have any resale.

  51. #51
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    Ha, I have like 5 wheel sets with various combos of hubs, rims and tires that I share between 3 bikes. Been running a home-brew version of CB's wider front/narrower rear concept for years. Mismatch is definitely the least of my worries!

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    For anyone who has built these from the rim up..Did you build with Sapim D-light as specified or another spoke? I'm having difficulty sourcing D-lights here in the states.

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    I built mine up with DT Comp Race 2/1.6/2mm. Technically youíre not supposed to build them with spokes below 1.65mm, but I like to live dangerously.

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    Quote Originally Posted by enjoi525 View Post
    For anyone who has built these from the rim up..Did you build with Sapim D-light as specified or another spoke? I'm having difficulty sourcing D-lights here in the states.
    DT race comp 2/1.8/2.
    Had both wheels at deflection of 22 (117) on the tight side during the build. After 5 rides, I was getting a deflection of 20 (94) on the tight side, WITH tire mounted. Unseated the beads and got a deflection 21 (105). So they were still in spec (115 +/- 10), but I nipped them back up to 22. I guess my de tensioning process wasn't thorough enough....

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    Quote Originally Posted by enjoi525 View Post
    For anyone who has built these from the rim up..Did you build with Sapim D-light as specified or another spoke? I'm having difficulty sourcing D-lights here in the states.
    What is the significance of the spokes to this build. The CX-Ray spokes are supposed to be stronger than the D-light, but maybe that isn't what affects the build.

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    Spoke with Zipp, They say do not use bladed spokes, they will give too much flex. Here is the quote

    "
    Zipp CS Admin (Zipp Customer Service)

    Aug 12, 4:22 PM EDT

    Thanks for your email!
    Bladed spokes will allow too much flex. Minimum spoke gauge is 2.0 mm / 1.65 mm / 2.0 mm.
    Split head, or Squorx nipples, or any other nipple with a tall profile can't be used for a 3ZEROMOTO build. These taller-style nipples stand too high inside of the rim, and would cause a risk of poking through the tubeless tape, effectively creating a flat."

  57. #57
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    I don't get how bladed spokes would allow flex. As long as they have sufficient cross section area and tension, they'd be the same a round. No spoke has enough stiffness to matter.
    What, me worry?

  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lone Rager View Post
    I don't get how bladed spokes would allow flex. As long as they have sufficient cross section area and tension, they'd be the same a round. No spoke has enough stiffness to matter.
    In this article, DT says bladed are stiffer than round


    Reduced aerodynamic drag is not a factor for off road cycling, so why do mountain bike wheels sometimes use bladed spokes?

    Given that our aero spokes go through an extra forging process, they do gain some strength over their round cousins. Also, bladed spokes provide additional stiffness under braking and acceleration loads.


    https://www.pinkbike.com/news/To-the...okes-2013.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Squeaky Wheel View Post
    In this article, DT says bladed are stiffer than round

    Given that our aero spokes go through an extra forging process, they do gain some strength over their round cousins. Also, bladed spokes provide additional stiffness under braking and acceleration loads.

    I get that the forging process adds strength, but I can't see where this equates to added stiffness.

    I've used bladed spokes on a handful of builds for myself through the years. Sometimes for gravel-type races like the GDR where (I hoped) I might get a teeny bit of aero benefit when using deep section rims and relatively skinny/smooth tires.

    The deep section rims I used (coincidentally Zipps, but of an ~'04 vintage) meant that you couldn't feel anything about spoke gauge or tension or material: The rims were so stiff that any spoke, any lacing, any tension felt the same.

    But when I used "normal" mtb rims -- like a Stans Arch or Bontrager Mustang -- and paired them with bladed spokes, there were notable differences from the bladed spokes to the round spokes.

    In a nut, there was lots of windup when braking with the bladed spokes that wasn't evident with round spokes. Why? Well, if I postulate an answer some enginerd will come in and tell me I'm wrong.

    So I won't say why. I'll just say that it was immediately evident, and anyone that borrowed or even hopped onto one of my bikes with this setup would notice and ask about it.

    Anecdotal, I know. But not worthless.

  60. #60
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    maybe they mean the extra flattening step, where it gains
    stiffness in one plane
    "Put your seatbelt back on or get out and sit in the middle of that circle of death." - Johnny Scoot

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    Flat bladed spokes when paired with typical wheels are known to have additional lateral flex but to be superior radially, owing to their orientation.
    Not shocking and similar to how it is easy to flex a 12' plastic school ruler in the plane where it's flattened, but not the other plane.

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  62. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Suns_PSD View Post
    Flat bladed spokes when paired with typical wheels are known to have additional lateral flex but to be superior radially, owing to their orientation...
    I'm calling BS on that. It's easy to bend round spokes too. The bending stiffness of the spokes is completely inconsequential.
    What, me worry?

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    Quote Originally Posted by tdc_worm View Post
    i hear ya. but what about the 3zero's at their lower limit of 105 vs Noble at their upper limit of 135? is there no meaningful difference there w a 30 kg/f swing? i realize we are taking this off topic...just trying to learn....

    I think you'd have to drop into the 70's -- maybe lower -- to be able to feel a difference on the trail.

  64. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Suns_PSD View Post
    Flat bladed spokes when paired with typical wheels are known to have additional lateral flex but to be superior radially, owing to their orientation.
    Not shocking and similar to how it is easy to flex a 12' plastic school ruler in the plane where it's flattened, but not the other plane.

    Great example.

    My (admittedly anecdotal) experience was somehow the opposite. I could feel spoke windup due to braking, but not lateral flex.

    This is laying it on thick (hyperbole! and a half!) to get the point across, but imagine coming to a short, sharp, sudden stop, and then the bike would roll backwards a few inches as the spokes unwound.

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    That's crazy!
    I should add that what I understand about bladed spokes was what NOBL told me, not something I learned or experienced on my own.
    I also recall a video where a DH mechanic said for certain tracks they run bladed spokes to increase compliance (don't think he specified what kind of compliance).

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  66. #66
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    Keeping this thread derailed....

    I've had two wheelsets with bladed spokes. One Envy, currently Synthesis. I didn't choose bladed spokes and purchased these are "prebuilt" wheelsets.

    I can't say that I've experienced any windup whatsoever, as Mikesee describes.

    The Evny wheels were as stiff as can be in all planes - almost certainly due to the stiff rim construction.

    The Synthesis front has a good deal of lateral compliance (in a good way) - how much of that is due to the bladed spokes or rim design I can't say. The rear Synthesis is as stiff as any other carbon rear wheel I've ridden. The rear Synthesis rim is designed to be stiffer and narrower than the front and uses the Sapim CX-sprint spoke which is thicker and allegedly thicker than the front Sapim CX-ray

  67. #67
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    As far as I'm concerned Crank Bros. builds the best ready made set of wheels currently.
    I would have used their rims if they weren't charging $700 each, which adds up to exactly $100 less than you can find the complete set built for with high end hubs.
    They need to drop the rims to $359 each or something.

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    Thinking about building a set with Hydra hubs, but can't get past the weight.

    I also have been riding Knight Enduro wheels and they have been great. They were one of the 1st to advertise compliance, etc. Reviewers loved the wheels. Wonder how much different the Zipps will be.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MegaStoke View Post
    Just built up a 29Ē set laced to original Onyx hubs.
    I'm also building up with original onyx hubs. What length spokes did you use?

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    Ordered a pair with I9 hydra.

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    Quote Originally Posted by enjoi525 View Post
    For anyone who has built these from the rim up..Did you build with Sapim D-light as specified or another spoke? I'm having difficulty sourcing D-lights here in the states.
    Bikehubstore.com sells D-lights. https://www.bikehubstore.com/product-p/dlight-black.htm

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    Received mine custom built by Probikesupply. Have turquoise hubs and nipples with stealth graphics. I have had a lot of wheels and these are a work of art. The carbon layup is stellar. Mounting tires in few hours and will try to ride a little tonight. Tomorrow I will be riding a rocky area and report back.

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  73. #73
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    I saw a review of these that complained about long-term trueness. Curious of those with more time on them can comment? It makes sense that the pretty extreme spoke tension changes upon rim deflection could lead to nipples backing out. Perhaps Zipp is using some extra tenacious thread locker on their in-house built wheels?

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  75. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrewBird View Post
    I saw a review of these that complained about long-term trueness. Curious of those with more time on them can comment? It makes sense that the pretty extreme spoke tension changes upon rim deflection could lead to nipples backing out. Perhaps Zipp is using some extra tenacious thread locker on their in-house built wheels?
    I haven't seen that but yes there was some sort of thread lock used.

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    First roll today on these wheels. Mid-Atlantic single track with punchy ups and downs, moderate roots and rocks and chatter. Ibtrack I know well.

    First think noticed is how they quieted the trail of small bumps and vibrations. Not in a bad way but good. Like a well dampened tire does. They definitely do nice things for the quality of the ride over stuff. As someone may have said...like you have extra suspension. A few small jump downs and hops produced a landing that felt like the bike just stuck to the ground. There wasn't the faintest bounced or feeling of recoil. Like when you thow something down on a super sticky surface. Climbing was real nice too. No noise at all from them.

    Oh I was worried about weight. I could tell they were in the heavier side but not much.

    Time will tell but so far I am impressed.

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    I had the chance to demo these at outerbike last week. I have been wondering how theyd do on a hardtail. At first I didn't notice a huge difference, but my the end of my rode o was blown away. I typically run plus tires with cushcore to tame rim strikes and run lower pressures. The zipp wheels I was running had a 2.4 dhr2 in the rear and a 2.5 dhf up front. I ran them down to 20 psi, and they really captured what I like with plus tires, with the benefit of a lighter, narrower tire and fast rolling feel of the 29s. For a hardtail, they make a significant difference. The rep I spoke to mentioned that for park, he builds his rear wheel up with beefier spokes so the wheel feels a little stiffer in the high speed bermed corners.

    Needless to say, I was so impressed with their rode quality that I now have a set of my own.

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    Another ride today. All good things to say.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    You write that as if weight and cost are the most important metrics to consider with wheels.

    They are 2 of the top 5, but not the top 2.

    I'd love to try these Zipp's. Eventually I will.
    Mike, have you had a chance to try the Zipp's yet? I'm a sucker for reasonable, iterative technological advances like this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tedbarbeau View Post
    Mike, have you had a chance to try the Zipp's yet? I'm a sucker for reasonable, iterative technological advances like this.

    I'd really like to try them but the reality is that they're too narrow. Even 35mm rims don't quite cut it: I spend ~90+% of my time on 40's.

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    Here are my thoughts from my first ride on them.


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    I have been punishing these wheels on some serious rock gardens. Performance is great and they haven't flinched.

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    I actually managed to break one of these rims recently, but it was entirely my fault, and they warrantied it with no hassle. I cased the crap out of a concrete ledge gap at high speed riding urban, and wouldnít expect any rim, carbon or otherwise, to have survived unscathed. I was actually quite impressed to see that it was merely cracked, and was even still totally rideable afterwards.

    Funnily enough, Iím feeling more solid about their durability after breaking one, since that was by far the hardest hit Iíve ever imparted on a rim in 25 years of doing bad things to bikes.

  84. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    I'd really like to try them but the reality is that they're too narrow. Even 35mm rims don't quite cut it: I spend ~90+% of my time on 40's.
    c'mon...don't you want to lace them up with some Berd spokes and push the compliance envelope? It seems like the logical next step...
    Riding: '91 Carbon Epic Stumpjumper w/a rack on the back

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    Quote Originally Posted by IPA Rider View Post
    c'mon...don't you want to lace them up with some Berd spokes and push the compliance envelope? It seems like the logical next step...

    Very much so. If the rims were wider I'd have done it months ago.

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    Quote Originally Posted by IPA Rider View Post
    c'mon...don't you want to lace them up with some Berd spokes and push the compliance envelope? It seems like the logical next step...
    Berd said they could do the install, but Zipp cautioned against it and said it likely would be a warranty issue.

    Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

  87. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by bogeydog View Post
    Berd said they could do the install, but Zipp cautioned against it and said it likely would be a warranty issue.

    Has Zipp said why?

    Doesn't really make sense.

  88. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    Has Zipp said why?

    Doesn't really make sense.
    They even didn't recommend CX-Ray spokes. Specifically said not to use bladed spokes. Likely because they didn't test them with either and don't know the implications.

    Weigh wise, I was very apprehensive on a wheelset that is so heavy. But honestly, after a few rides I forgot or adjusted to the change. I ride a ton of rock gardens and techy climbs and downs. They have been great and I am really enjoying them. Hard to describe, but it's a more comfortable ride, gobs of traction, and an all around good experience.

    Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

  89. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    Has Zipp said why?

    Doesn't really make sense.
    It's a tuned flex wheel system, just like the Crank Bros Synthesis wheels. Changing any part of the wheel build will result in an UNtuned flex wheel system with an unknown outcome.
    IMO, the wheels are already very compliant and Berd's would only serve to increase that characteristic, possible to an undesirable level.

    Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk
    Last edited by Suns_PSD; 12-14-2019 at 03:07 PM.

  90. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Suns_PSD View Post
    IMO, the wheels are already very complaint and Berd's would only serve to increase that characteristic, possible to an undesirable level.
    Are Berd spokes (UHMPE) stretchy when appropriately tensioned?

  91. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by tdc_worm View Post
    Are Berd spokes (UHMPE) stretchy when appropriately tensioned?
    Berds have something like 50% more stretch even though they have higher tensile strength than steel. It's quite noticable when riding if you are the type that notices these things. Sometimes I'll compress, lean, and pedal all at the same moment and the rear in particular has a very noticable 'flexing inwards at the bottom while the bike itself continues to move outwards' sensation for a brief moment. Not sure that's a bad thing however and I suspect it helps with traction, it's just there for sure. Also when putting a lot of load into the front end, my front 28 spoke Berd feels less chattery and like it follows the ground well and is forgiving too.
    You should ride mine some time.
    Berd wheels have enough give in the rear (with a DH layup rear rim in my case) at my 180s# that at your size/ strength/ wheel history, I'd at least consider 36 spoke instead of standard 32 in the rear if going with Berds.

    Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

  92. #92
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    I'm super impressed with these wheels. I'm currently running them on my ti hardtail here in Sedona, AZ and they haven't flinched. I couldn't be happier with them. And the TyreWiz is actually super helpful. I thought it'd be gimmicky, but man, I use it every ride.

  93. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by hardtail party View Post
    I'm super impressed with these wheels. I'm currently running them on my ti hardtail here in Sedona, AZ and they haven't flinched. I couldn't be happier with them. And the TyreWiz is actually super helpful. I thought it'd be gimmicky, but man, I use it every ride.
    Agree. Been running them on super chunky rock gardens. Square edge all day, etc. Been clearing stuff I never did before. It's really interesting and impressive.

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  94. #94
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    Is anyone doing custom builds? I need a hub with microspline and thinking a Vesper hubs laced to these rims would be awesome. Zipp recommends Sapim D-Light spokes but I already have DT Competition Race spokes which are the same dimension. What is everyone uysing for spokes?

  95. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by ctw55 View Post
    Is anyone doing custom builds? I need a hub with microspline and thinking a Vesper hubs laced to these rims would be awesome. Zipp recommends Sapim D-Light spokes but I already have DT Competition Race spokes which are the same dimension. What is everyone uysing for spokes?
    Probikesupply did mine custom.

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  96. #96
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    Here's a quick video that shows the tyrewiz in action. The way the bead seats is weird when installing tires. It seats great, but there's no audible "pop." I have a feeling these will be extremely difficult to burp.


    Last edited by hardtail party; 01-04-2020 at 10:08 PM.

  97. #97
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    Anyone have tips on taping the rims up? Thought I did a great job, but have very small amounts of air escaping.

  98. #98
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    If only a very a small amount of air is escaping then dribble the tire on the ground to splash sealant around the inside of the tire and rim and the gaps will plug instantly. Make sure to do this at each section of the tire by rotating slightly and repeating until you've done this around the entire wheel. This is very effective since sealant just pools in the tire and when you ride it spins to the outside and does not get to the rim and tape often.

  99. #99
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    Anyone running Cushcore with their Zipps?

  100. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by enjoi525 View Post
    Anyone running Cushcore with their Zipps?
    if you are in pursuit of a rim protection strategy, I would say its not necessary. I've blown up my fair hare of carbon from most of the major manufacturers. i still run CC in two other sets of hoops. i laced these up with the intent of trying to destroy them. so far they have survived on my 120mm travel bike, with zero pinch flats on non DD casings, in super chunky terrain.

  101. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by tdc_worm View Post
    if you are in pursuit of a rim protection strategy, I would say its not necessary. I've blown up my fair hare of carbon from most of the major manufacturers. i still run CC in two other sets of hoops. i laced these up with the intent of trying to destroy them. so far they have survived on my 120mm travel bike, with zero pinch flats on non DD casings, in super chunky terrain.
    I managed to break one, but I earned it big time. I was riding street on my trail bike(first mistake) and came up very short on a high speed step-up onto a sharp concrete ledge. It was a massive impact that would have destroyed any rim out there. As a matter of fact, I'm actually really impressed that it only put a minor crack in the rim, since most rims would have buckled or shattered from a hit like that.

    The warranty guy at SRAM said he hadn't heard of a single failure on these rims yet, but warranty guys always say that... Thankfully they shipped me a replacement at no cost, so I'm still quite stoked on these rims.

  102. #102
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    I still love my rims, but Iím none too impressed with the tire whiz. It works fine, but when I changed the batteries this year I couldnít get either of them to close tight enough to seat the batteries. They locked after much fussing, but no lights. When I just held the batteries in lace they worked.

    The closing mechanism is so pitifully designed, it would be laughable if wasnít so infuriating. Could they not have sprung for some texture o grips to aide in twisting it in?

  103. #103
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    These rims are amazing. Been running them in pa on rocky descents on a Kona process 153. Truly durable and reliable. Checked the spine tension when new and recorded all 4 measurements. Havenít change at all. I notice the ride the most when cornering in rough and rocky turns. The bike holds its line better and the chatter is severely dampened. Wonderful design. Hope more riders support this model.

  104. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by MegaStoke View Post
    Iíve been loving my wheels with the Zipp rims. The compliance is a night and day difference to my previous Derby wheelset. The best analogy for how they ride is like a good crud ski. They definitely help absorb chunky terrain and vibrations, but donít feel noodly or flimsy in the slightest. They track like a dream in chunky rock gardens, better than any other wheel Iíve ridden.

    Iíve been beating the absolute piss out of mine, and have smacked them good and hard a bunch of times now. A few of which would have been wheel breakers on lesser rims. When you hit them, they respond with a dull somewhat wooden thud, instead of the usual harsh clang or crack that weíve all come to dread. Iíve also not had one flat while running these, despite having taken hard hits a bunch of times that would have almost certainly pinched on my previous setup.

    They are very confidence inspiring for me, and Iíve gotten a ton of DH PRs, and a handful of KOMs since switching wheelsets, which I give substantial credit to these wheels. Theyíre holding up great so far, with approx 500-700 very heavy duty miles on them, they still have perfect true and tension balance. I was a bit concerned with how theyíd hold true while building them due to their flexibility, but those concerns have seemed to be unfounded so far.

    In short, Im of the opinion that thereís really something to these hoops, and am guessing that once the word gets out, a lot of hard charging enduro types will wind up riding them. They can take a beating, seem to reduce the incidence of pinch flats, and ride awesome when blasting through the gnar gnar.
    Super interested in these wheels and I'm really glad to see some real-life reviews on here. It's especially good to hear you dudes are really smashing these with mostly good results (and great to hear that your warranty claim was quick and easy too). Can I ask how much you guys weigh? I'm a pretty little dude (145 lbs) and I'm curious how these would feel to someone my size vs a much bigger rider. The PB review makes me a bit concerned that the rear wheel is too compliant..? but maybe not for someone my size? or is that a non-issue entirely based on your experiences? Related: I'm also intrigued by report that the rep in Sedona was saying he used beefier spokes on his rear wheel to compensate for that... any more info on that? Cheers. Thanks!

  105. #105
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    I love these wheels. They don't feel overly flexy to me, but I rode them on a hardtail, where a little complained is nice.

    The rep I spoke to only added thicker gauge spikes to his dh/Whistler wheelset. These aren't rated for dh bikes. I'd be surprised if you could get them to flex much at 145lbs. If anything, small dudes like you would probably benefit the most from a softer set of wheels.

  106. #106
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    Thanks hardtail party. Actually just found these on discount and impulse bought 'em. So stoked to try these out!

  107. #107
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    I looking to get a set of these. Debating these or the Reserve DH wheels (or any other similar tough wheelset with warranty).

    Anyone have a place the recommend getting them from?

  108. #108
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    If it's going on a hardtail, I definitely recommend the ZIPPs over the reserves. The reserves are considerably stiffer.

  109. #109
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    Going on a 170mm E29.

    Also add We Are One Union or Strife.

  110. #110
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    nice reviews, i looking to for this wheels..
    :thumbsup:
    ride.

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