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  1. #1
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    DIY tire insert experiment

    DIY tire inserts is just an experiment. Been thinking about tire inserts for about a year after Schwalbe came out with the Pro-Core inserts. I think tire inserts are a good idea but the weight (usually 200-350 grams) and cost (100-200) is kind of a deterrent. Was thinking of using pool noodles to try out but couldn't find one with the correct diameter, but found some plumbing insulation that is correct fit. So, final weight is 62 grams for 27.5 and cost was 5 bucks. Used shipping tape to seal up the split and tape sections together. Also, made it so it was snug to the rim.

    Seems like you can run lower pressures. You can almost ride with no air. Haha. Been holding air fine and haven't noticed differences in riding characteristics. There are some issues. Not sure if the sealant is flowing really freely around but it could be because tire has not been losing air. However, not sure how it will seal punctures. It is more difficult to put the sealant in because you insert through the valve very slowly otherwise it will overflow. However like I said, the tire has sealed up fine and holding air fine. I do have so ideas of improving it.

    It is just an experiment because I haven't found anybody who has made a tire insert product that I like. Just food for thought.

    DIY tire insert experiment-img_20170517_143528.jpg
    DIY tire insert experiment-img_20170509_115834.jpg

  2. #2
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    Link to buy the insulation?

  3. #3
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    Go to a hardware store...

    Truly if you have to put air in your tire what is the point of the insert? The idea behind the tire inserts is to eliminate the need to deal with flats, sealant etc.

    Actually going larger diameter also isn't a bad thing, foam increases firmness as it's compressed. So use bigger pipe insulation to effectively "raise" your tire pressure.

    How much effect it will actually have is unknown till guys like you start playing around with the idea but it's a good start as airless tires are starting to appear all over the place. Just saw a landscaping company with bigger zero turn mowers using them. All they have is the internal ribs attached to the tread. See straight through the tires.

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  4. #4
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    They have it Home Depot or Lowes in plumbing near the water heaters. There are two kinds. One is more supple and heavier and the other is lighter and more rigid. I went with the lighter more rigid one.

    I would maybe try the 1/2" x 2 inch diameter one rather than the 3/4" x 2.25 inch diameter one. It may allow the sealant to flow more freely. In a couple weeks, I will most likely try the smaller diameter one.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by RAKC Ind View Post
    Go to a hardware store...

    Truly if you have to put air in your tire what is the point of the insert? The idea behind the tire inserts is to eliminate the need to deal with flats, sealant etc.

    Actually going larger diameter also isn't a bad thing, foam increases firmness as it's compressed. So use bigger pipe insulation to effectively "raise" your tire pressure.

    How much effect it will actually have is unknown till guys like you start playing around with the idea but it's a good start as airless tires are starting to appear all over the place. Just saw a landscaping company with bigger zero turn mowers using them. All they have is the internal ribs attached to the tread. See straight through the tires.

    Sent from my XT1565 using Tapatalk
    For me, it is not only the need to deal with flats. I rarely get flats or snake bites with tubeless. To me, the main purpose of tire inserts is to protect the rim. Protect the rim from breaking is big when you run lower pressures on really rocky rooty chop. I just shattered my carbon rim. Also, protect the tire from snake bites is good too. An airless tire is bonus if someone invents one.

  6. #6
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    Ah, ya that makes sense but I guess my question comes into why not run pressures high enough to avoid that. Low pressures have diminishing returns very rapidly anyway.

    Other thing is that besides stiffness, adding the insert don't you loose the benefit of weight loss/does it matter?

    I'm not a carbon guy, so getting a clear picture of a thought pattern would be cool. Have carbon forks on my fat bike as well as bars, about the extent of carbon I've considered using. Though the benefits are hard to ignore.

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  7. #7
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    I'm impressed with the creativity. I'm sure some will wanna rain on your parade, but ingenuity makes things happen.
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  8. #8
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    I'm not raining myself, I'm actually quite curious as to the "common consensus" versus some ingenuity and how the 2 compare in the end.

    Also trying to understand his goal here which now I understand. Just curious as to why this route vs adding air pressure.

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  9. #9
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    I like it.
    Don't know if it was you (OP) that I saw suggesting this idea on another thread, or if you simply decided to try it.
    I have seen some foam/sponge tubes on stores that sell water and heat products.
    Some are softer others are more rigid, the weight is low on both, like +200cm*6cm weights​ less than a tube, if memory serves me right.
    For this application the harder the better, but the ones I saw didn't seem to be able withstands a riders weight, or preventing a rim strike.
    But I will try to get one or two of those to give it a try in the next days.

    As a side note, not related to tire inserts, in the water/heat section they have this little foam pipes, that are super light and have a bore/ID of around 5mm and are awesome too use on frames that have internal routing cables that insist on rattle .

  10. #10
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    If you're using closed-cell foam, it will shrink when air pressure is added to the tire. I believe pipe insulation (both soft neoprene and stiffer polyethylene) as well as pool noodles are closed cell. IDK if this matters or not, but something to consider.
    Do the math.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by RAKC Ind View Post
    Go to a hardware store...
    Actually smartguy, I want to know the specs on the one he chose.

    You're not as clever as your mommy says you are.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by RAKC Ind View Post
    Truly if you have to put air in your tire what is the point of the insert? The idea behind the tire inserts is to eliminate the need to deal with flats, sealant etc.
    The point of all the other systems and why I would be interested is to lower the practical pressure floor, which for me is limited by rim strikes and potential damage. Nothing to do with airless or flats.
    Quote Originally Posted by pvd
    Time to stop believing the hype and start doing some science.
    29er Tire Weight Database

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by RAKC Ind View Post
    Low pressures have diminishing returns very rapidly anyway.
    This does not seem to be true, as clear benefits are realized down to the point where rim strikes become a problem.
    Quote Originally Posted by pvd
    Time to stop believing the hype and start doing some science.
    29er Tire Weight Database

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by aliikane View Post
    DIY tire inserts is just an experiment. Been thinking about tire inserts for about a year after Schwalbe came out with the Pro-Core inserts. I think tire inserts are a good idea but the weight (usually 200-350 grams) and cost (100-200) is kind of a deterrent. Was thinking of using pool noodles to try out but couldn't find one with the correct diameter, but found some plumbing insulation that is correct fit. So, final weight is 62 grams for 27.5 and cost was 5 bucks. Used shipping tape to seal up the split and tape sections together. Also, made it so it was snug to the rim.

    Seems like you can run lower pressures. You can almost ride with no air. Haha. Been holding air fine and haven't noticed differences in riding characteristics. There are some issues. Not sure if the sealant is flowing really freely around but it could be because tire has not been losing air. However, not sure how it will seal punctures. It is more difficult to put the sealant in because you insert through the valve very slowly otherwise it will overflow. However like I said, the tire has sealed up fine and holding air fine. I do have so ideas of improving it.

    It is just an experiment because I haven't found anybody who has made a tire insert product that I like. Just food for thought.
    Nice goin'!
    Keep us posted on what you find over the longer term... I may try this myself.
    Quote Originally Posted by pvd
    Time to stop believing the hype and start doing some science.
    29er Tire Weight Database

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by aliikane View Post
    [..] Used shipping tape to seal up the split and tape sections together. Also, made it so it was snug to the rim.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_20170509_115834.jpg 
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ID:	1137646
    Nice job! In this picture, it appears you wrapped the entire insert with tape. Is this necessary to hold it together? Done to minimize the amount of sealant that gets absorbed by the foam? Or some other reason?

  16. #16
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    How difficult was it to mount the tire with that?

    Also if you are concerned about it soaking up the sealant you could spray the whole thing with NeverWet which creates a superhydrophobic surface and should keep most of the sealant from sticking or getting soaked up.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by j0hn View Post
    Nice job! In this picture, it appears you wrapped the entire insert with tape. Is this necessary to hold it together? Done to minimize the amount of sealant that gets absorbed by the foam? Or some other reason?
    It is pipe insulation so there is a split down the middle so I had to seal off the middle cavity. That is another issue (the cavity in the middle made for the pipe) that I don't know how it will affect the sealant. Hopefully the tape seals the sealant from the cavity.
    It wasn't overly difficult but it is more difficult because the foam pushes the bead out of the rim middle recess, but I guess it depends on the tire. I used a Hans Dampf 2.4 tire.

    The polyethylene foam seems like it doesn't absorb moisture much but I won't know for sure until I open it up.

    I am going to try a few more things this week with possibly a smaller diameter and try to get the sealant to flow better and to insert it in the tire better with a port that goes through the foam. I'll post my findings.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schulze View Post
    Actually smartguy, I want to know the specs on the one he chose.

    You're not as clever as your mommy says you are.
    Then why post:

    "link to buy the insulation". Instead of asking the specs which you are saying your requesting???

    Seeing as you go to a hardware store to buy it you wouldn't be asking for a link to buy it. You would have been asking for the details about it instead. Seems you missed you morning coffee so common sense is still in your bed


    Nice updates OP and now (though people are pulling post segments of mine way out of context which isn't cool) that I got a full picture of the purpose it makes much better sense. All about saving the rims hopefully.

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  19. #19
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    DIY tire insert experiment-img_20170518_123551610.jpg

    I had to repair a puncture on my rear tire today, so ran over to Home Depot and picked up a couple of those pipe insulation tubes, 3/4 x 2.25 ones to give this "ghetto rim saver" a try. You need to use two, one is not long enough. Running 2.4 tires also.

    I sprayed it down with a thick coat of NeverWet that I had laying around and will see if that keep sealant from soaking/sticking in. If this works out, good option to seal this up will be to tape it up with a layer of Tyvek tape. The Tyvek tape I had was chopped up for use as rim tape,so really could not use it.

    Tyvek Tape (great rim tape and would be great for this)
    https://www.amazon.com/Tyvek-Sheathi...rds=tyvek+tape

    Mounting was at bit hard though but the tire went on, just hard to keep the bead(s) in the channel.

    Also cut out a small 3" long shallow channel for the stem, to make it easier to fill with sealant/air.

  20. #20
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    Your posts are a waste of time.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schulze View Post
    Your posts are a waste of time.
    Your posts waste other people's time.
    Quote Originally Posted by pvd
    Time to stop believing the hype and start doing some science.
    29er Tire Weight Database

  22. #22
    Barely in control
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    I just asked a simple question. Not everyone can make it to a hardware store.

  23. #23
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    Except then you changed the question lol. Your profile says San Antonio and you have internet access to post here, so a hardware store isn't far. Home Depot, Lowe's, Ace, True Value. Also Google is a great way to find specific stores nearest to you.

    Instead of being angry, be like others here and help spark constructive discussion to see if a real solution can be had from the OPs idea. MTBR seems to be what Sparks a lot of ideas into the market, good place to try and make a real solution.

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  24. #24
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    DIY tire insert experiment-img_20170519_180520561.jpg
    DIY tire insert experiment-img_20170519_183435312.jpg

    Version 2

    Went with 1/2" foam tubing over the larger 3/4", added 1/2" plastic drip system tubing which increases impact absorption quite a bit and wrapped in Tyvek tape. The drip tubing is as light/if not lighter than the foam tubing so it does not add much weight at all.

    It was much harder to mount tire with this wrapped in tape. Think using 1/2" foam, adding the drip tubing and not taping is the way to go.

  25. #25
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    aliikane and/or In2falling, any update on this? How have they ridden? Held up? Have you opened the tires up after install? If so, any observations on the foam & sealant have interacted (e.g. does it get absorbed by foam, dissolve foam, etc)?

  26. #26
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    Hey there,
    I'm pioneering a new tire insert that will work with both tubes and tubeless and that solves bottoming out on the rim as well as pinch and pin prick flats.
    You would all be of huge help if you could complete this super quick survey for me in order for me to conquer the war against flats and dinged rims.

    https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/muzzworks

    Would be very much appreciated.

    Thanks

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by tjc4golf View Post
    aliikane and/or In2falling, any update on this? How have they ridden? Held up? Have you opened the tires up after install? If so, any observations on the foam & sealant have interacted (e.g. does it get absorbed by foam, dissolve foam, etc)?
    Any news?? How much have the drip tubing deformed over time?

    www.cyco.no

  28. #28
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    OK, I'll ask too. Any update? Are you still running with the inserts?

    I'm thinking about doing something like this with my fatbike to solve a very poor tire/rim fit. Right now it is so bad that I won't attempt tubeless but adding something like this may just solve it.

  29. #29
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    I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned this, but you could probably alter the feel/softness and weight of the insert if you drill some large holes in it. It might affect durability, but having a couple of sets of inserts with various amounts of holes drilled in each could be a good go-to for a race day set up.

  30. #30
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    Great write up! How's the experiment going?

    I just found out about the Cushcores and other foam inserts.

    Like a lot of people, I like to bomb rough sections of the trail but high tire pressures rattles my teeth out. Low tire pressure and I'm bound to at least burp a tire if not case a carbon rim.

    I don't have money problems but I won't spend $150 on Cushcores just on principle.

    Let me know what you've found to be to optimal setup and thanks for sharing!

  31. #31
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    I'll second the request on how this has progressed.
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  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cleared2land View Post
    I'll second the request on how this has progressed.
    Found this video:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCfRoxOBarw

    Seems like it would work even better. Heck, you may even be able to take a foam shaper (looks like a cheese grater) and shape the foam.

  33. #33
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    These have been working out really well for me and getting great rim protection running low PSI. Probably just as good Cushcore protection wise and my guess on the weight is about 150 grams per wheel.

    Below is what I came up with that seems to be working best.

    1) Take drip tubing and thread it through piece of pipe insulation without splitting the pipe insulation open, might have to lube this up with soapy water to get it to thread through the pipe insulation.

    2) Warp this around rim and then measure and cut the drip tubing so that it will be a nice tight fit around rim with the pipe insulation. This is key for holding this tight around rim, when you inflate tire the pipe insulation foam shrinks quite a bit and if you don't get it tight it will rattle
    a little when the tire is inflated.

    DIY tire insert experiment-everbilt-pipe-insulation-orp05812-64_1000.jpg
    Name:  rim-bangerz.jpg
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    3) Use small piece of heat shrink tubing to splice together/hold the drip tubing together (use lighter or heat gun on the heat shrink tubing).

    4) Finally splice in piece of pipe insulation.

    Name:  rim-bangerz1.jpg
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    1/2 "pipe insulation
    https://www.homedepot.com/p/Everbilt...5812/204760811


    1/2" Tubing for Drip Irrigation (light weight shiny/slick type)
    https://www.homedepot.com/p/Rain-Bir...-050/202078361


    3/4" Heat Shrink Tubing (holds the drip tubing together)
    https://www.homedepot.com/p/Gardner-...750B/202797319

  34. #34
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    I'd love to see that verified at 150g. i think that is being too conservative.

  35. #35
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    Thanks for the write up! Do you think there is any advantage to your system vs. the one using solid foam backer rod?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCfRoxOBarw

    I'm tempted to get some 2" backer rod but can't find it locally and the vendors I've found online want crazy shipping charges. Cheers.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by pajak View Post
    I'd love to see that verified at 150g. i think that is being too conservative.
    Buy and send me a scale and I will weight it for you LOL.

    Estimate is from OP who said the foam pipe insulation weight was 62 grams. The drip tubing weighs about the same, maybe a tad more. So 150ish seems to be about right, but could be a little more.

  37. #37
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    No idea what that foam backer weighs? This had been working well, have a few friends running them also who are much more aggressive/faster than me and working well for them also. Though one just switched to cushcore and likes it even better (sidewall support/damping), and does not mind the weight. I am just after protecting my carbon rims without huge weight penalty.

  38. #38
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    You might be onto something here. Why do you need the drip tube? Wondering how it compares to the expensive alternatives?

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeDee View Post
    You might be onto something here. Why do you need the drip tube? Wondering how it compares to the expensive alternatives?

    Drip tubing greatly increases the impact resistance and holds everything together nicely.

  40. #40
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    Pepi's Tire Noodle

    Moved to it's own thread... http://forums.mtbr.com/wheels-tires/...l#post13593460
    I would like to figure out what material they are made of so I can make my own. Wonder if the sheath is something they add or if it comes on that type of foam?
    Last edited by MudBike; 03-22-2018 at 02:27 PM. Reason: Move to it's own thread

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by In2falling View Post
    Drip tubing greatly increases the impact resistance and holds everything together nicely.
    Instead of that drip tubing. What about some higher density foam in a strip that could fill the recess in the rim to spread the impact force to avoid the rim cutting the lower density foam above?
    Maybe it would add to much weight..?

    Sent fra min Moto G (5) Plus via Tapatalk

  42. #42
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    I'm testing the backer rod, solid 2in foam. I am using 3M Super 77 and crazy glue to glue sections together to make a solid ring. The Super 77 was supposed to melt and bond the pieces but it didn't cure very well. On a whim and short of alternative adhesives I turned to good ole crazy glue, Gorilla brand. The Super 77 tacked up but never fully bonded. The foam would still come apart, so I added a layer of crazy glue to it. In a couple of minutes it tacked up then hardened. I also tested just crazy glue alone and it failed to bond, thus the combo of Super 77 adhesive then crazy was the trick. The seams are barely visible in the pic below.

    I'm placing another order from best materials for 7 sticks of rod which came out to 35 bucks. Also a completed hoop for 27.5 weighed about 120 grams, which is damn light.

    DIY tire insert experiment-rod.jpg

  43. #43
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    now how about something like this:
    https://www.amazon.com/Adhesive-Weat.../dp/B0747695TZ

    i would get 2"x3/4" version and stick it to the inside of the tire, then mount the tire.

    what do you guys think?

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by In2falling View Post
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_20170518_123551610.jpg 
Views:	750 
Size:	163.4 KB 
ID:	1137804I sprayed it down with a thick coat of NeverWet that I had laying around and will see if that keep sealant from soaking/sticking in.
    How did the water repellent work? I just checked today on a 26er with backer rod that had the top 1/3rd cut off so the foam core was exposed. I wanted to check on how much sealant was absorbed. Upon removal, it was somewhat soppy. When I squeezed the rod, Stans would bubble up. I weighed it the soaked rod which came to 120g. I didn't think to weigh it before hand, duh! After squeezing the and wiping off the whole loop, I weighed it again which came to 100g.

    I'm going to try the water sealant aerosol. Though something like Thompson's might work better since its for external use.

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by brankulo View Post
    now how about something like this:
    https://www.amazon.com/Adhesive-Weat.../dp/B0747695TZ

    i would get 2"x3/4" version and stick it to the inside of the tire, then mount the tire.

    what do you guys think?
    Did you happen to try this?

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