Disadvantages of wider rims?- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
    Sponge Brain
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    Disadvantages of wider rims?

    Other than increased weight, what are any disadvantages to going with a wider rim? Such as I9 trail (23.4mm) to enduro (26mm) for standard mtb tire sizes (2.1"-2.4")?

    Thanks

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    Disadvantages of wider rims?

    Quote Originally Posted by mtnzj View Post
    Other than increased weight, what are any disadvantages to going with a wider rim? Such as I9 trail (23.4mm) to enduro (26mm) for standard mtb tire sizes (2.1"-2.4")?

    Thanks
    26-30mm (outside) wide rims is pretty much the sweet spot for most mtbing. Go for it.
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  3. #3
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    The only disadvantage is that it might just be more awesome than you can handle.

    Edit: and you can't run 23mm wide road tires very effectively. But then again, I think that's a bit redundant with my original statement.

  4. #4
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    Besides adding an eenie tinsy bittie bit of weight nothing but pure awesomeness.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by CupOfJava View Post
    Besides adding an eenie tinsy bittie bit of weight nothing but pure awesomeness.
    Word.

    Take a look at the rim width to tire width ratio on off-road motorcycles.
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  6. #6
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    Stay clearance can be a limit on some bikes with wide sidewall tires.

    A few tires with very square profiles on a narrow rim, generally some DH type tires, would become more edge hooky with wider rims when riding through deep erosion ruts.

  7. #7
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    Wider rims leave the sidewalls a bit more exposed as well. So rocky terrain + narrower tires + wide rims = probably not the best idea.

  8. #8
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    The only issue used to be more weight. Now, with the availability of cheaper priced carbon rims, I don't see any disadvantages.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by dgaddis1 View Post
    Wider rims leave the sidewalls a bit more exposed as well. So rocky terrain + narrower tires + wide rims = probably not the best idea.
    Are you sure about that? I just did up a sketch to try and visualize what you're saying, and the narrower rim, with similar tires shows the sidewalls bulging out more. I would imagine, especially under bottom-out (snake bite) and under cornering, that the narrower rim would leave the sidewalls more exposed. no?
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  10. #10
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    Disadvantages of wider rims?

    Quote Originally Posted by slyfink View Post
    Are you sure about that? I just did up a sketch to try and visualize what you're saying, and the narrower rim, with similar tires shows the sidewalls bulging out more. I would imagine, especially under bottom-out (snake bite) and under cornering, that the narrower rim would leave the sidewalls more exposed. no?
    I agree with him, but for me the rims need to be ~35mm or wider with 2.3 or narrower tires. The more vertical sidewalls are more likely to damaged. I also have noticeably more rim hits than when using the same tires at the same pressure on narrower rims.
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  11. #11
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    I switched over to a wider set of rims recently, and notice the front end washing out a little more when cornering. I understand that the profile is more square, I'm running the newer TR 2.3 Minion in the front. I'd like to make due with this tire for the time being. Some suggest that increasing pressure could help maintain a more round profile, would you guys agree?

    For those that have been running wider rims for a while, have you found tires with rounder profiles to mitigate the squaring effects?

  12. #12
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    Re: Disadvantages of wider rims?

    Quote Originally Posted by half_man_half_scab View Post
    I switched over to a wider set of rims recently, and notice the front end washing out a little more when cornering. I understand that the profile is more square, I'm running the newer TR 2.3 Minion in the front. I'd like to make due with this tire for the time being. Some suggest that increasing pressure could help maintain a more round profile, would you guys agree?

    For those that have been running wider rims for a while, have you found tires with rounder profiles to mitigate the squaring effects?
    Higher pressure will do little but decrease grip and increase harshness.

    A wider casing will do more to "round" the tire than anything. It is tall edge tread that makes a tire "square" and if it is on too wide a rim it can become very "edgy".

    A tread that is lower and/or wraps further down the casing will be better.

    Either way you may need to adjust your riding style a bit.
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  13. #13
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    That's unfortunate. In addition to the front end feeling like it's going to wash out, the back feels reluctant to lean over. I think a narrower profile in the back is pretty key to my cornering style. I just can't throw the bike into turns like I used too. Such an expensive experiment. Maybe tire technology will shift to have more tread wrap, but I think I'm SOL as I'm riding and prefer 26 still.

  14. #14
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    Re: Disadvantages of wider rims?

    Quote Originally Posted by half_man_half_scab View Post
    That's unfortunate. In addition to the front end feeling like it's going to wash out, the back feels reluctant to lean over. I think a narrower profile in the back is pretty key to my cornering style. I just can't throw the bike into turns like I used too. Such an expensive experiment. Maybe tire technology will shift to have more tread wrap, but I think I'm SOL as I'm riding and prefer 26 still.
    Exactly what happens with too narrow a tire on too wide a rim.
    What rims are you using
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by half_man_half_scab View Post
    I switched over to a wider set of rims recently, and notice the front end washing out a little more when cornering. I understand that the profile is more square, I'm running the newer TR 2.3 Minion in the front. I'd like to make due with this tire for the time being. Some suggest that increasing pressure could help maintain a more round profile, would you guys agree?

    For those that have been running wider rims for a while, have you found tires with rounder profiles to mitigate the squaring effects?
    Not much benefit leaving the pressure sweetspot for any given tire. Even if it does round out the tire, increased pressure will reduce your contact patch. Squared tires piss me off. I understand the MFG's trying to maximize traction with the rediculously thin rims that come with these bikes, but all it does is perpetuate use of stupidly think rims. You'll have to switch to a rounder tire, or more preferably, a bigger tire. You've added rim so you're obviously not being a weight weenie, take advantage of it and get a bigger contact patch in there.
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  16. #16
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    So I've tried a number of tires for the rear wheel. The list so far is 2.3 DHRII, 2.3 Butcher, 2.2 Ardent Race, and 2.3 Vigilante. On previous rim setups I would rank the 2.3 tire casing width of each brand from smallest to largest: Maxxis, Specialized, WTB. Interestingly, they all end up with roughly the same width casing when adapted to the wide rim, 61-62mm. So it would seem that actual casing width is normalized by a wide rim. What changes is the angle of side knobs, resulting in the 'squaring' effect. I don't know that this is actually the issue I was having with cornering from the back tire. Rather than profile, I think it is the width of the casing itself that I dislike. I think narrow casings are easier to lean over than wider casings.

    Now the frustrating issue issue I'm faced with is the high volume of the tire allowing for rim strikes at even high pressure. At 32psi I can consistently destroy tires by pinning them between the rim bead and a rock, which results in a hole near the bead and a gash just below the tread on the sidewall. The excessive high volume of the wide rims allow the tire to compress too easily, as the air spring inside is now exceedingly linear.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by half_man_half_scab View Post
    So I've tried a number of tires for the rear wheel. The list so far is 2.3 DHRII, 2.3 Butcher, 2.2 Ardent Race, and 2.3 Vigilante. On previous rim setups I would rank the 2.3 tire casing width of each brand from smallest to largest: Maxxis, Specialized, WTB. Interestingly, they all end up with roughly the same width casing when adapted to the wide rim, 61-62mm. So it would seem that actual casing width is normalized by a wide rim. What changes is the angle of side knobs, resulting in the 'squaring' effect. I don't know that this is actually the issue I was having with cornering from the back tire. Rather than profile, I think it is the width of the casing itself that I dislike. I think narrow casings are easier to lean over than wider casings.

    Now the frustrating issue issue I'm faced with is the high volume of the tire allowing for rim strikes at even high pressure. At 32psi I can consistently destroy tires by pinning them between the rim bead and a rock, which results in a hole near the bead and a gash just below the tread on the sidewall. The excessive high volume of the wide rims allow the tire to compress too easily, as the air spring inside is now exceedingly linear.
    I've had the opposite experience - wider rims allow for less air pressure. I haven't got terribly wide on the rims though.

    But, at 32psi if you're tearing up tires then either:
    A - you've got to learn how to 'ride lightly' and stop smashing the rear wheel into everything so hard
    B - your gauge isn't accurate

    32psi is ROCK HARD in 2.3"+ tire.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by half_man_half_scab View Post
    So I've tried a number of tires for the rear wheel. The list so far is 2.3 DHRII, 2.3 Butcher, 2.2 Ardent Race, and 2.3 Vigilante. On previous rim setups I would rank the 2.3 tire casing width of each brand from smallest to largest: Maxxis, Specialized, WTB. Interestingly, they all end up with roughly the same width casing when adapted to the wide rim, 61-62mm. So it would seem that actual casing width is normalized by a wide rim. What changes is the angle of side knobs, resulting in the 'squaring' effect. I don't know that this is actually the issue I was having with cornering from the back tire. Rather than profile, I think it is the width of the casing itself that I dislike. I think narrow casings are easier to lean over than wider casings.

    Now the frustrating issue issue I'm faced with is the high volume of the tire allowing for rim strikes at even high pressure. At 32psi I can consistently destroy tires by pinning them between the rim bead and a rock, which results in a hole near the bead and a gash just below the tread on the sidewall. The excessive high volume of the wide rims allow the tire to compress too easily, as the air spring inside is now exceedingly linear.
    What rims are you using?

    I installed Minon DHF/DHRII 2.3s on my Ibis 741 rims (35mm internal), and they measured just about 2.3". Maxxis casings are undersized in general, so not surprising that they "open up" only to their stated width. I love the DHF/DHR II combo on these wide rims; these have a nice round profile and perform fantastically in my opinion. Not too wide, but great grip. I tried a HRII and Trail King, but found them too square. Tried Magic Mary and Hans Dampf 2.35", they grew to massive 2.5+ size and were hard to turn in. Minions work great, and are not too big.

    I'm not really getting your issues with pressure though. 32psi is madness on wide rims, unless you're really really heavy. I'm running 18/22psi front and rear with the Minions, I'm 185lbs without gear. Nary an issue so far, and I've been jumpin' and droppin' like a fool.

  19. #19
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    I went from running 24mm (outside ) 19mm ( inside) to 28/21 with the same tires ( schwable NN 2.25 R / HD F and I'm amazed how much better my bike handles now ..

    I've been reading a lot about "rounder" tires are best for up front , what's an example of that ? I'm always striving for better performance ..
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  20. #20
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    Who makes wide (25mm + internal width) UST rims (26")?

    I have Easton Havens - which are 21mm internal width. UST rims are the only way to go IMO, whether running true UST tires or tubeless ready.

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  21. #21
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    Disadvantages of wider rims?

    Quote Originally Posted by LCW View Post
    Who makes wide (25mm + internal width) UST rims (26")?

    I have Easton Havens - which are 21mm internal width. UST rims are the only way to go IMO, whether running true UST tires or tubeless ready.
    WTB i25 rims are UST compatible.
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  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by shiggy View Post
    WTB i25 rims are UST compatible.
    off the top of my head,
    aluminum
    i25
    Flow EX (though not true UST their track record is proven tubeless)
    Spank Oozy Trail 295 (295 refers to external width, it is 24.5mm internal)

    carbon
    Derby
    Enve
    Superstar
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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by LCW View Post
    Who makes wide (25mm + internal width) UST rims (26")?

    I have Easton Havens - which are 21mm internal width. UST rims are the only way to go IMO, whether running true UST tires or tubeless ready.
    I am using Superstar Components 24mm internal (sorry -1mm, but a quality bargain and worth checking out while they last) 26" carbon wheels with rim tape and HRII 2.35 front and HD 2.3 rear. The Hans D on the back is pretty massive and a mate who uses a 30mm internal says it doesn't even fit his Banshee Paradox 29 properly (works, but badly). The HRII and Dampf combo seem to corner well and drift controllably. I think I feel more wheel bounce with the wider rims compared to the previous 19mm internal rims, but they were also alloy, deformed more and deflected less than the composites. It's probably the stiffer rims.

    I am intrigued by Jerome Clementz deciding a rim well less than 30mm internal is ideal. I don't know why, but maybe he does.

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