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  1. #1
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    Any Onyx Vesper users yet? Reviews?

    Like the title says -- has anyone received and ridden the new Onyx Vesper rear hub? any reviews anywhere?

    Onyx is being really quiet and the only info is from NOBL.

  2. #2
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    From my email: "orders will start shipping to us the first week of June. We have them set to ship out express in order to get them as soon as we can."

    It should be any day now. I'm all excited.

  3. #3
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    Waiting...

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    I have them on order with my LBS and Derby rims, can't wait! I was told they might arrive this week but that didn't happen.

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    I called them last week. Long story short, the hubs aren't out yet. They ran into manufacturing delays. Shooting for end of June now I believe.

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    I'm over it.
    Going with 321s again.

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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Suns_PSD View Post
    I'm over it.
    Going with 321s again.

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    The new I9's with a tiny bit of Dumonde Tech Pro X grease are nearly dead quiet (Cannot hear them on the trail at all), and the engagement feels instant. Identical to Onyx. Big difference from Torch's IMO.
    Denver, CO

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    Quote Originally Posted by Streetdoctor View Post
    The new I9's with a tiny bit of Dumonde Tech Pro X grease are nearly dead quiet (Cannot hear them on the trail at all), and the engagement feels instant. Identical to Onyx. Big difference from Torch's IMO.
    Whoa, really? I'd like to hear more. Is that something that requires maintenance to keep quiet?

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by ahkim View Post
    Whoa, really? I'd like to hear more. Is that something that requires maintenance to keep quiet?
    I just put them on my DH bike (after running multiple sets of torch's over the years). So far I only have one super dusty park day on it and it's still dead quiet. I literally used a tiny dab of grease. I'm headed to Whistler next week where I'll get a better idea of how long it lasts. I'm going to add some to the Torch's on my trail bike to see the difference as well. So far I'm super impressed. The Hydras without the grease are definitely more quiet than Torch's even and the engagement difference is very noticeable.
    Denver, CO

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    Really glad I went Hydras vs. waiting - I've been riding them for a month, they're lighter, and the sound level and engagement are great. I haven't taken the step to grease them yet - I don't like the angry bee thing and found Torches pretty obnoxious, the Hydras are much less intrusive.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Glenngineer View Post
    Really glad I went Hydras vs. waiting - I've been riding them for a month, they're lighter, and the sound level and engagement are great. I haven't taken the step to grease them yet - I don't like the angry bee thing and found Torches pretty obnoxious, the Hydras are much less intrusive.
    I just saw this and it's pretty incredible what a bit of grease does to quiet it down. Watch at 1:58.

    I'm going to talk with my shop to see how long Onyx is delayed. I like that I don't have to do anything with grease to get them to be quiet.


  12. #12
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    Anything yet? End of June has come and gone!

    Onyx Racing -- take my money!!

  13. #13
    Nat
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    I got a ups tracking number today. Should arrive tomorrow!

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    My LBS just told me that it'll ship next week, looking forward to some silent hubs with some wide Derby rims.

  15. #15
    Nat
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    My three favorite words: "Out for delivery."

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nat View Post
    My three favorite words: "Out for delivery."
    Post pics for the rest of us to drool over...............

  17. #17
    Nat
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    It came in a nice box:

    Any Onyx Vesper users yet? Reviews?-d530d9ca-62f7-43ed-8a9d-6f4722b44889.jpg

    With some nice packaging:

    Any Onyx Vesper users yet? Reviews?-2dc1feeb-ddd8-4a33-9984-647eeef1238b.jpg

    There were some spare spokes, several stickers, and a T-shirt (the shirt went into the washing machine before I took a picture):

    Any Onyx Vesper users yet? Reviews?-03d9fa41-cac7-4634-b2fb-7d733c599aa0.jpg

    I ordered black chrome powdercoat finish. This looks like matte black to me but it looks sweet anyway.

    Any Onyx Vesper users yet? Reviews?-a4f9e396-570d-4f38-a45c-119e48f4f1bd.jpg

    Any Onyx Vesper users yet? Reviews?-59a2a55e-5024-4b5c-87d6-6918b40615a1.jpg

    They came with valves installed. I like the little NOBL crown:

    Any Onyx Vesper users yet? Reviews?-6f97da68-cb3f-4683-9232-f26ceba23ac9.jpg

    Any Onyx Vesper users yet? Reviews?-c3656f6c-b425-4ad4-b306-316602963456.jpg

    Iím waiting on some new Vittoria tires to arrive at before I mount everything up. I was originally planning to run a set of slightly-worn Maxxis tread that I already have but then I decided I just canít install old, dirty rubber on clean, new wheels.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Any Onyx Vesper users yet? Reviews?-4ed307bb-d64b-4e5f-898a-b35bd8722ffe.jpg  

    Last edited by Nat; 07-03-2019 at 09:23 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Streetdoctor View Post
    The new I9's with a tiny bit of Dumonde Tech Pro X grease are nearly dead quiet (Cannot hear them on the trail at all), and the engagement feels instant. Identical to Onyx. Big difference from Torch's IMO.
    Calling bullshit on this. Iíve got i9 Hydras and while greasing the pawls silences them for a short period of time, theyíre loud AF again within a few miles. They do engage super nicely, Iíll give them that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MegaStoke View Post
    Calling bullshit on this. Iíve got i9 Hydras and while greasing the pawls silences them for a short period of time, theyíre loud AF again within a few miles. They do engage super nicely, Iíll give them that.
    Serious question out of my own ignorance, but aren't they pretty specific about which grease you should use for quieting them and still getting some longevity?

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    Did you use the same grease...curious about this because I am debating between the Onyx and Hydras, but I do not want a Hub that is too loud.

    Would you say the I9 are louder than dt350(36t)?

    Looking forward for a review of the new Onyx.

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    Quote Originally Posted by manteufel View Post
    Did you use the same grease...curious about this because I am debating between the Onyx and Hydras, but I do not want a Hub that is too loud.

    Would you say the I9 are louder than dt350(36t)?

    Looking forward for a review of the new Onyx.
    I use the recommended Dumonde Tech free hub grease. Iíve also tried other greases with similar, if not worse results. Grease certainly quiets it down for a while, but it gets back to annoying levels in short order. Like under 100 miles and itís fully back to full volume. And Itís not just the volume, which isnít really that loud per se, but the character of the sound that gets to me. Itís a high pitched whine that my riding buddies have likened to an air raid siren.

    I bought into the ďgrease quiets the Hydras down to almost silentĒ BS, and now Iím looking to sell them because the sound drives me nuts.

    Anyone want to buy a set of Derby 35i 29Ē carbon hoops laced to boost centerlock xd hydras? Theyíre in good shape, the sound just pisses me off now that Iím addicted to silent hubs.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheBaldBlur View Post
    Serious question out of my own ignorance, but aren't they pretty specific about which grease you should use for quieting them and still getting some longevity?
    Yep and Iím using the recommended grease, the dumonde tech stuff. The pawls displace it and no longer run quietly in short order.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by MegaStoke View Post
    Yep and Iím using the recommended grease, the dumonde tech stuff. The pawls displace it and no longer run quietly in short order.
    I've had similar experiences with my DT-Swss 350's. Clean them up, lube them up with the recommended lube in the recommended quantity and they are nice and quiet -- for 2 rides then they get noisy again.

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    Thanks to all for sharing that the grease seems to be a temp fix. I'm glad I waited for the Onyx hubs.

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    Test how they roll for us on the stand? Just a back spin test. They need to be broken in a bit first however.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MegaStoke View Post
    And Itís not just the volume, which isnít really that loud per se, but the character of the sound that gets to me. Itís a high pitched whine that my riding buddies have likened to an air raid siren.
    .
    Your comment made me go look for videos. Holy crap, you're right. You could also say it sounds like a screaming baby. The torch has a high pitch too but it's muted by the buzz.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFhVy3H5gzg

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    Let's keep this thread on track and focused on Onyx....lot's of other threads out there on other hubs.

    Nat -- any first ride impressions?

    ahkim -- did you get yours yet?

  28. #28
    Nat
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    Quote Originally Posted by spec306 View Post
    Let's keep this thread on track and focused on Onyx....lot's of other threads out there on other hubs.

    Nat -- any first ride impressions?

    ahkim -- did you get yours yet?
    I'm waiting on some new tires to arrive tomorrow then I'll mount up the wheels. I already have a set of wheels with the previous generation of Onyx hubs though, and I wasn't expecting to feel any difference in motion with the new wheels, just lighter weight in-hand. I do LOVE the previous Onyx hubs, hence the second wheelset. Rolling through the woods totally silent is sublime. I would have a hard time going back to the loud RIIIIriiiiiRIIIIriiiii of other freewheels.

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    Mine arrived yesterday and had a quick question while setting everything up. After installing my GX cassette, I flipped over the wheel and the cassette and XD driver slid off the hub. Are their hubs non-locking? Just want to triple check that I didn't forget a step!
    Thanks!

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by MegaStoke View Post
    Calling bullshit on this. Iíve got i9 Hydras and while greasing the pawls silences them for a short period of time, theyíre loud AF again within a few miles. They do engage super nicely, Iíll give them that.
    Call bullshit if you like. I greased these before leaving for whistler. I rode about 300 miles in the park (with a couple rain days) on this bike and this is currently what they sound like compared to a Torch hub. Maybe you ride within rivers? Or don't know what you're doing? On the trail, you can not hear them freewheel.

    https://youtu.be/t12iN0yRQmo


    I'm not interested in the Derbys but I'll take those hubs off your hands if you break them down.
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  31. #31
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    These Vesper hubs look really nice. I'm going to be on the prowl for a deal, hopefully build up a set in the next 18 months. My DT hubs are reliable but loud!

    I'm thinking, Vesper rear, DT 350 front with Onyx stickers. There's nothing a $200 front hub can do that a $60 one can't, shrug.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Schulze View Post
    These Vesper hubs look really nice. I'm going to be on the prowl for a deal, hopefully build up a set in the next 18 months. My DT hubs are reliable but loud!

    I'm thinking, Vesper rear, DT 350 front with Onyx stickers. There's nothing a $200 front hub can do that a $60 one can't, shrug.
    I'm in a similar situation. I've been using DT 350s on my bikes for some time. Love the low cost, reliability, and ease of maintenance; hate the noise.

    I've been watching (and waiting) since Onyx first leaked the development of these in September 2017. At one point these were slated to be a less expensive variant of their regular hub, but it looks like that didn't pan out. It looks like they are actually more expensive when the extra cost of ceramic bearings is taken into account (not that I would get them). So I'll be on the lookout for deals as well.

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  33. #33
    Nat
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    Two rides so far. I love the wheels but these Martello tires blow. So slippery. Theyíre coming off immediately.

  34. #34
    Nat
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    Quote Originally Posted by jlewand3 View Post
    Mine arrived yesterday and had a quick question while setting everything up. After installing my GX cassette, I flipped over the wheel and the cassette and XD driver slid off the hub. Are their hubs non-locking? Just want to triple check that I didn't forget a step!
    Thanks!
    Do you mean like this? Mine fell apart too.

    Any Onyx Vesper users yet? Reviews?-068cdb06-2e8c-44dd-9cbd-5e586ffa5c51.jpg

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nat View Post
    Do you mean like this? Mine fell apart too.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Yuuuup!! Exactly like that!
    I triple checked to make sure everything is seated correctly.

  36. #36
    Nat
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    It caught me by surprise when the cassette and everything else fell onto the floor.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nat View Post
    It caught me by surprise when the cassette and everything else fell onto the floor.
    Just curious if anyone has talked with Onyx about this yet. Doesn't seem quite right, but I guess with the axle in place and everything clamped in the frame, it might not make a difference. Just curious...

  38. #38
    Nat
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    Quote Originally Posted by SqueakyWheel73 View Post
    Just curious if anyone has talked with Onyx about this yet. Doesn't seem quite right, but I guess with the axle in place and everything clamped in the frame, it might not make a difference. Just curious...
    I suppose I should contact them about it.

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    I just got my Onyx/Vesper wheels with TR33 rims today and set them up tubeless with new Maxxis DHF/Aggressor rubber.

    Took a spin around the block and these wheels rock! Smooooth action and a truly joyful riding experience with the low drag, quiet operation, and instant engagement. Can't wait to take them out on the trails. On a side note, really digging the new Maxxis rubber as well. I can feel the extra traction/confidence even on pavement vs. my Ardents and the rolling resistance really didn't feel that much draggier.

    Addressing the concerns above, I think these hubs have pressfit end caps which allows the takedown of the axle and freehub simply by removing the caps. Once mounted in the fork and bike they are rock solid and roll true.

    Been waiting for these since the prototype was shown years ago and so far it has been everything I had hoped for! Will try to follow up with a trail report.

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by newboy04 View Post

    Addressing the concerns above, I think these hubs have pressfit end caps which allows the takedown of the axle and freehub simply by removing the caps.
    Obviously. But they shouldn't just fall apart. Maybe there are O rings missing and it's a very simple fix. If not, that's garbage. You're supposed to worry about your hub internals falling into the dirt if you have to remove your wheel on the trail to insert a tube?

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nat View Post
    Do you mean like this? Mine fell apart too.

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    Dude, between this and your posted inability to remove your tire from the rim, I'd say you majorly pissed off some wheel-deity.

    Consider making a sacrifice to the wheel-deity in hopes of making things right. I'd start by burning a picture of FoShizzle


    And to further get off topic, I have Hydras and Torch. The Hydras are a lot quieter than Torch and the pitch is also less irritating, but I wouldn't call Hydra silent.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 92gli View Post
    Obviously. But they shouldn't just fall apart. Maybe there are O rings missing and it's a very simple fix. If not, that's garbage. You're supposed to worry about your hub internals falling into the dirt if you have to remove your wheel on the trail to insert a tube?
    Having owned 5 sets of the legacy onyx hubs, there are no internals that are just going to "fall into the dirt" when driver is removed...the sprags are not just rattling around loosely in the hub shell. That said, my concern would be that the O-rings are not providing adequate seal to keep the bad out....

  43. #43
    Nat
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Squeaky Wheel View Post
    Dude, between this and your posted inability to remove your tire from the rim, I'd say you majorly pissed off some wheel-deity.

    Consider making a sacrifice to the wheel-deity in hopes of making things right. I'd start by burning a picture of FoShizzle


    And to further get off topic, I have Hydras and Torch. The Hydras are a lot quieter than Torch and the pitch is also less irritating, but I wouldn't call Hydra silent.
    Ha, yeah really!

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    Quote Originally Posted by tdc_worm View Post
    Having owned 5 sets of the legacy onyx hubs, there are no internals that are just going to "fall into the dirt" when driver is removed...the sprags are not just rattling around loosely in the hub shell. That said, my concern would be that the O-rings are not providing adequate seal to keep the bad out....
    That is my concern as well. My DT-350s provide a really tight seal and holds the driver side in there tight. I have to give it a good yank with both hands to pop it off. There is no way the driver side would just fall out like that.

    Nat -- let us know what Onyx has to say.

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    Quote Originally Posted by spec306 View Post
    That is my concern as well. My DT-350s provide a really tight seal and holds the driver side in there tight. I have to give it a good yank with both hands to pop it off. There is no way the driver side would just fall out like that.

    Nat -- let us know what Onyx has to say.
    That's not quite how it works. On DT hubs the drive side end cap has an o-ring (or something that acts like a detent) that keeps it from falling off. I'm sure the ratchet seal adds some resistance, but it doesn't hold the driveshell in place.



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  46. #46
    Nat
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    This is what I've heard from NOBL so far: "The new Vesper hubs have a press fit driver and end caps similar to DT-Swiss system. This new system doesn't feature a lock ring on the end caps like the previous version does, you're not missing any parts. The end caps and driver are deigned to come out easily, but not that easily. We've reached out to Onyx regrading the issue and we're working out a solution for you."

    I'll keep you guys updated.

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by compengr View Post
    That's not quite how it works. On DT hubs the drive side end cap has an o-ring (or something that acts like a detent) that keeps it from falling off. I'm sure the ratchet seal adds some resistance, but it doesn't hold the driveshell in place.



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    Ah -- you're right. I thought the driver snapped in but it is the end cap that snaps in and holds it all together. Guess its been too long since I serviced my hubs

  48. #48
    Nat
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    From NOBL: "Regarding the endcap, Onyx official word is that sometimes the O-ring doesn't seat itself properly on the axle, and therefore it doesn't bind and hold everything together. The solution is to make sure that O-ring is seated. Simply rotating and jiggling this endcap should allow it to seat correctly and then it should all hold together."

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    Just finished a 10 mile sesh here in uber flat rooty terrain country where its also 91F but feels like 100F thanks to face-melting humidity.

    This will be more a first impressions on my overall setup since quite a bit has changed from my previous setup so changes can't be attributed solely to the hubs since quite a bit of rotational weight came off as well. This is on a SB4.5 rig.

    Old: DT Swiss M1900 with I think a 3-pawl hub and alu rims. Maxxis Ardent front and rear.
    New: Nobl TR33 with Onyx Vesper. DHF 2.3 front and Aggressor 2.3 rear.
    Overall weight change ~0 lbs

    Ladies and gentlemen, the hype is real. To me, these wheels are a transformative setup. It is my first time on a sprag-based system but everything I have read about it are true. I had a lot of thoughts on the trail so I'll try to hit on some of my key findings.

    1. Feel: The best way to describe the feel of this new setup is that my feet had a direct connection to the ground and the bike felt like it was on rails (better tires contribute to this as well). Almost like the ground was an extension of the gearing of the bike itself and every pedal stroke translated into direct movement. There is not much elevation change to speak of where I rode, but on the few steep ups and downs littered with roots I was able to clear these with ease whereas a combination of the lower POE/higher rotational weight of the old wheels had me struggling at times. Magic carpet ride isn't too much hyperbole is it?

    2. Shifting: I feel like one of effects of sprags that I haven't seen touched on much is how it transforms the feel of the shifting and suspension. Due to the infinite POE and 'softer' engagement, my perception of the shifting operation was much smoother and less herky-jerky in relation to my pedal strokes. With the old hubs sometimes you get the harsh 'ping' when you ratchet pedals or change gears and the cadence doesn't quite match your pedal stroke and you suddenly hit the engagement points. With the Vesper the whole system feels silky smooth with enhanced shift feel.

    3. Vibration: This includes frequencies in the audible spectrum and physical vibrations transmitted through the frame as well. The quietness of hub was really highlighted when I noticed rear suspension sounds and cable rattling that I had not really noticed before. Pounding through root gardens is a much different experience now that the residual noises of the hub is eliminated and all you hear is the dirt, tires, and suspension. Another effect is the lack of vibration felt through your touch points on the bike as well, which like the lack of noise you don't really notice until its not there.

    4. Speed: So the net overall change of the weight of my bike was basically zero, since lighter rims were offset by heavier hubs and tires. However, the bike gathered speed much faster and cranked up steeps with much less inertia. Hauling ass on these wheels were a pleasure with the infinite POE and coasting at speed a really cool experience with silence and low drag. You can smash on the pedals at any speed and the engagement is virtually instant despite whatever perceived or actual wind-up effect that people have been writing about.

    So those are most my first impressions. Durability/longevity and reliability will be revealed/proven over time so I can't comment on those now so you probably just have to extrapolate from Onyx's track record, which is as good as anyone else as far as I can tell.

    I love these wheels. They are a step change over anything else I've tried and I'm glad the wait since the prototype was revealed is over and I can count myself among the Onyx/Sprag riders!

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    Had the orig. Onyx hubs on my Warden few years back with Nox rims, best setup Ive had. Im glad the new ones are lighter, makes me wanna get a set for my Patrol. Sick sick sick.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nat View Post
    From NOBL: "Regarding the endcap, Onyx official word is that sometimes the O-ring doesn't seat itself properly on the axle, and therefore it doesn't bind and hold everything together. The solution is to make sure that O-ring is seated. Simply rotating and jiggling this endcap should allow it to seat correctly and then it should all hold together."
    Did you get a chance to fiddle around with the end cap? Is it fixed?

  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by spec306 View Post
    Did you get a chance to fiddle around with the end cap? Is it fixed?
    I popped off the endcap, noted the presence of the O-ring, popped the cap back on, and nothing has fallen apart after that. I guess it's fixed?

  53. #53
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    Newboy4

    Thanks for the detailed review. These hubs and carbon wheels will be the next upgrade on my Stache.

  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by spec306 View Post
    Did you get a chance to fiddle around with the end cap? Is it fixed?
    Quote Originally Posted by Nat View Post
    I popped off the endcap, noted the presence of the O-ring, popped the cap back on, and nothing has fallen apart after that. I guess it's fixed?
    Nope. It still comes apart easily. I was doing a tire change and when I was flipping the wheel around in my hands to distribute the sealant around the hub fell apart in a few pieces. One endcap went bouncing across the garage under the car so I'm glad I had eyes on it the whole time. I got an early release model so maybe they'll change something in the design to keep things tighter? Take precautions when you guys play with yours!

  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by newboy04 View Post
    Just finished a 10 mile sesh here in uber flat rooty terrain country where its also 91F but feels like 100F thanks to face-melting humidity.

    Old: DT Swiss M1900 with I think a 3-pawl hub and alu rims. Maxxis Ardent front and rear.
    New: Nobl TR33 with Onyx Vesper. DHF 2.3 front and Aggressor 2.3 rear.
    Overall weight change ~0 lbs

    Ladies and gentlemen, the hype is real. To me, these wheels are a transformative setup. It is my first time on a sprag-based system but everything I have read about it are true. I had a lot of thoughts on the trail so I'll try to hit on some of my key findings.

    1. Feel: The best way to describe the feel of this new setup is that my feet had a direct connection to the ground and the bike felt like it was on rails (better tires contribute to this as well). Almost like the ground was an extension of the gearing of the bike itself and every pedal stroke translated into direct movement. There is not much elevation change to speak of where I rode, but on the few steep ups and downs littered with roots I was able to clear these with ease whereas a combination of the lower POE/higher rotational weight of the old wheels had me struggling at times. Magic carpet ride isn't too much hyperbole is it?

    4. Speed: So the net overall change of the weight of my bike was basically zero, since lighter rims were offset by heavier hubs and tires. However, the bike gathered speed much faster and cranked up steeps with much less inertia. Hauling ass on these wheels were a pleasure with the infinite POE and coasting at speed a really cool experience with silence and low drag. You can smash on the pedals at any speed and the engagement is virtually instant despite whatever perceived or actual wind-up effect that people have been writing about.

    So those are most my first impressions. Durability/longevity and reliability will be revealed/proven over time so I can't comment on those now so you probably just have to extrapolate from Onyx's track record, which is as good as anyone else as far as I can tell.

    I love these wheels. They are a step change over anything else I've tried and I'm glad the wait since the prototype was revealed is over and I can count myself among the Onyx/Sprag riders!
    Thanks for this!!
    I think the most interesting part of your post is the fact that you noticed improved speed and rolling resistance - but that your new tires (DHF) have considerably more drag than the previous (Ardent). That says quite a thing about the performance (lack-of-friction) of the new Onyx hubs...
    Please keep posting any new insights. This has me very interested as a potential upgrade!

  56. #56
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    Good job!

    Quote Originally Posted by newboy04 View Post
    I love these wheels. They are a step change over anything else I've tried and I'm glad the wait since the prototype was revealed is over and I can count myself among the Onyx/Sprag riders!
    This is a great write-up, and matches my experience on 3 sets of pre-Vesper Onyx hubs. Once you get used to the Onyx feel and engagement, everything else feels a bit "off", though I do actually really like the I9 Hydras too.

    I'm not currently in the market for new wheels, but when the time comes I'll likely go with the Vespers, assuming the QC is solid. I don't like seeing pictures of hubs falling apart.
    - -benja- -

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    So I got my new wheels today! Keep in mind that I had the Ibis carbon wheelset and hubs so I wasn't expecting a big difference but I really wanted the Onyx hubs. Went on a ride and the silence is nice. I was riding behind someone for a couple mins and they had no idea I was behind them. The engagement is excellent but I didn't think it was a drastic difference. The bike felt noticeably heavier just lifting it but I also felt like it wasn't as snappy in terms of acceleration, not for sure though. I'll post updates again later.

    Any Onyx Vesper users yet? Reviews?-2019-07-22-23_29_03-inbox-akim%40evs-eng.com-outlook.jpg

    Any Onyx Vesper users yet? Reviews?-2019-07-22-23_29_48-photo-google-photos.jpg

    Any Onyx Vesper users yet? Reviews?-2019-07-22-23_33_35-nvidia-geforce-overlay.jpg

    I shot a video just to show the silence of the hub. You'll hear another rider at the beginning for comparison.


  58. #58
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    Thanks for your update Can you check if your hub is coming apart (too) easily?

    Thanks

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    I have benefited from the info on MTBR for a long time but have posted maybe once. This is the only place on the web I could find substantive info about the new Vesper hubs. Thanks for that!

    I just received a wheel set direct from Onyx. 100x15 and 142x12 with Arch rims. I emailed and eventually called to complete the order. Great service and I was happy to work with fellow Minnesotans. They answered all of my questions. It really seems like a great company.

    I am looking forward to getting the rims taped and shod with new rubber. Not sure when that will happen but hopefully soon! I will post back with reports. Really looking forward to a silent ride in the woods.

    Any Onyx Vesper users yet? Reviews?-img_1186.jpgAny Onyx Vesper users yet? Reviews?-img_1184_no_meta.jpg

    PS: the drive body does seem to be "captured" by the seals and indents on the axle for the endcap. It does come off with a bit of effort and no tools. Personally, I like that feature.
    I will post more when I get a cassette on it. FWIW, the SRAM Roam 40 rear hub currently on my bike drops the cassette easily too. I just try to be careful when removing the wheel.

  60. #60
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    Yo that color is fire, powdercoat orange?

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    Quote Originally Posted by newboy04 View Post
    Yo that color is fire, powdercoat orange?
    No, the color on the picture is a bit off. They are the standard Orange Fluorescent powdercoat. The color is slightly lighter and slightly less red in reality.

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    Such a bummer, having trouble getting my XD cassette off of my old wheels. I was hoping to be able to reuse the cassette and chain because I don't think they are quite beat yet. Alas the curse of the XD driver has me sitting with the wheels with new tires and rotors mounted but no drivetrain. Drag.

    Does anyone have words of wisdom for removing stubborn XD cassettes? I have tried lost of muscle and body weight, penetrating oil. The bike shop tried a long breaker bar right before close last night. It have been sitting over night with WD-40 and whatever magic penetrating oil stuff the bike shop had (they said they had some stuff you can only get if you're a bike shop). I might try cooling it down in the freezer to see it that might help it. I'm all out of ideas.

    I did weigh the wheels using my daughter's baking scale. The front (100x15 32 hole, Stan's Arch Mk3, Sapim alum nipples and Sapim Race spokes, no tape) is 834g. The rear (same specs) is 1064g. Seems reasonable to me but I don't really pay much attention to weight.

    If I have to buy a new cassette, I am thinking I might switch to a HG freehub body just for ease of use. I'll cross my fingers that Onyx might let me trade an unused XD driver for and HG. I am going to search the forums for how a Shimano or Sunrace HG 11 speed hub will work with a SRAM X0 derailleur. Hate to buy another XD after this experience and all of the tales of woe I have read today.
    Last edited by tomtoday; 07-28-2019 at 04:31 PM.

  63. #63
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    I am placing my order for just a rear Vesper and will have my LBS re-lace my current ENVE XC rims. I am replacing the DT-350 I started with.

    My question for the new Vesper owners, particularly those coming from Gen 1 Onyx, do you recommend the ceramic hybrid bearing upgrade? From what I can tell the Gen 1s came with the hybrid ceramic as standard where it is now an upgrade option for the Vesper. For the Gen1 crowd, were they durable? Did they last? Did they require more maintenance than steel?

    I ride just all XC these days on dry fireroads in the Santa Cruz mtns and tend to be a fair weather rider so I don't expect these to see mud or water crossings. Maybe the once in a while water crossing at Downieville.

  64. #64
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    The ceramic bearings that came in my original Onyx hubs are still rolling fast and smooth after about 4000 miles of abusive riding. Lots of fully loaded bikepacking on a hardtail, rain or shine, with dozens of river fords and more hard hits than I can count. Iím not sure if I can attribute the durability of the bearings to their being ceramic, but I can attest to them holding up well for me.

  65. #65
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    I did need to replace the original bearings in my gen. 1 rear hub. The mechanic at the LBS explained to me that they were a hybrid rather than a full ceramic? I never bothered to read up on different bearing types but they replaced the originals with the stainless steel bearings they had in stock since I didn't want to order ceramics and wait. Honestly I couldn't tell any difference in rolling resistance after I switched.

    My Vespers have the basic s/s bearings and they feel pretty darned good. Since I couldn't tell a difference with the gen.1 hubs I decided not to upgrade to ceramic bearings in the Vespers.

  66. #66
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    Generally, it seems that a "full ceramic" bearing is a bad choice for mountain biking. The issue is if the race is ceramic, rather than hardened steel, it is more brittle and a hard hit such as a big drop or a hard curb/rock hit can cause the race to crack.

    A "ceramic hybrid" uses the same ceramic balls as a full ceramic but uses a hardened steel race which is still softer than the ceramic balls. While it is not subject to cracking like the full ceramic may be it is subject to more wear from the harder ceramic balls digging in and creating a deeper groove and side play over time.

    Overall, however, it sounds like a hybrid ceramic can last longer and spin more freely than a steel bearing. Is it worth the $100 upgrade? Eh....maybe, maybe not. More of a personal choice as it seems as the gain from going hybrid ceramic might be minuscule.

    I am no expert -- this is just from some casual internet searching but it seems legit.

  67. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by tomtoday View Post
    Does anyone have words of wisdom for removing stubborn XD cassettes?
    Maybe. I had problems once with a cassette that was installed with torque too low, that marred and gauged the spline of the XD drive. Then the cassette enters that gauging, and won't come off by breaking the torque. You may have to remove the freehub with the cassette (ok if you have the axle too), then grab the freehub with a pipe wrench and rotate in the opposite direction of the engagement. When it gets back in place, you'll be able to separate the cassette from the freehub.

    For everyone else, sorry for the offtopic.

  68. #68
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    I finally got in a ride this evening. I ultimately decided to go with a new XD cassette and chain. Removal of the cassette from my original wheels will be a story for another day.

    My original wheels were SRAM Roam 40s (24 spoke) that came with the bike. I had Nobby Nics on them, tubeless. The tires were not new but still worked well, I thought. The new wheels are Onyx Vesper Hubs (32 spoke) laced to Arch Mk3 with Sapim Race spokes. They are 100x15 and 142x12 front and back. I added new tires - 2.4 Ardent in the front and a 2.35 Ikon in the back, tubeless. The weight difference was maybe 20 grams for both wheels. Remarkably close considering the old wheelset is 24 spokes. Not noticeable. The bike feels like new but that might be largely due to new rubber and cassette/chain. I love this bike (a 2015 Horsethief Carbon 1) and now I know I will keep it for several more years.

    I purchased these direct from Onyx. The wheels are machine built but the are straight and true and properly tensioned. I ordered extra spokes and nipples. Onyx was great to work with. I initiated the order via email and paid over the phone. Super easy. They also answered many of my questions over the phone. I was a little skiddish about the hubs after dealing with the seized cassette on my old wheelset. I wanted to be sure I didn't damage this beautiful hardware. They were super helpful and understanding with my many questions. I can't say enough about how great they were.

    When I finally got everything sorted, it was worth it. The local trails are great but not particularly challenging WRT terrain. That said, the ride on the new Vesper wheels was striking. The silence really made me ride a little bit differently. I was not as aware of the bike or drivetrain. I just rode. The immediate engagement was interesting for quick steep uphills and switchbacks. I think the bike climbs noticeably better. Really quite a different experience. I loved it.

    There's more but I'm out. Let me know if you have any other specific questions.

  69. #69
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    Hello,
    can't find informations on the final colors.
    Nobl announcement said that there will be more than 5colors after release but i cannot find them anywhere
    Looking for orange (like the one used by hope).
    Halp !

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    You will need to contact Nobl directly for their status. If you order from Onyx directly or via your LBS you can get colors show here https://onyxrp.com/wp-content/upload...-2017-0303.jpg

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    I finally got my new Vesper! Unfortunately, my LBS goofed on the order and forgot to tell Onyx that I wanted the upgraded Ceramic Hybrid bearings! Not happy but the LBS is making it right and I am just going to stay with the steel bearings. They are Enduro ABEC 5 steel bearings so they should be fine.

    My first, and only, ride so far was just a quick 2 mi ride around the neighbood with a few hills so I could try out the instant engagement. I can say, it is real. There is no lag and the engagement is nice and smooth. The hub is SILENT. The annoying thing is that I now hear a slight tick-tick-tick of my brake pads just barely grazing the rear rotor.

    Oh, and my drive side comes off pretty easy like other posters here have said; however, once the wheel is on the bike that makes no difference.
    Last edited by spec306; 08-13-2019 at 04:16 PM.

  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by tomtoday View Post
    No, the color on the picture is a bit off. They are the standard Orange Fluorescent powdercoat. The color is slightly lighter and slightly less red in reality.
    Is that so you don't get shot during deer season?

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    Is the soft engagement bothersome to anyone else? I don't mind it too much on the initial stroke of the pedal but I can feel it when I'm climbing and hammering hard.

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    Not seeing the new hubs on Onyx web store. Are these hubs available in CenterLock?
    Also going to likely need a BOOST 20 CL front hub.

  75. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbowles View Post
    Is the soft engagement bothersome to anyone else? I don't mind it too much on the initial stroke of the pedal but I can feel it when I'm climbing and hammering hard.

    It's keeping you from spinning out when traction is thin. That's about the only difference it makes.

  76. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbowles View Post
    Is the soft engagement bothersome to anyone else? I don't mind it too much on the initial stroke of the pedal but I can feel it when I'm climbing and hammering hard.
    What is this soft engagement you speak of? I have a hub on order so I'd like to know!

  77. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schulze View Post
    What is this soft engagement you speak of? I have a hub on order so I'd like to know!
    Unlike the traditional ratchets or pawls which have positive and abrupt engagement, the sprag clutch engages by slight rotation of the sprags, which distributes the impulse over a longer period of time, resulting in the "softer" engagement. In theory anyway.

  78. #78
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    Onyx feels slightly squishy when applying power. I love it even though I've never owned a set.
    I skipped on Vesper cause I'm a weight weenie and have good relations with my previous hub provider.

    Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

  79. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by compengr View Post
    Unlike the traditional ratchets or pawls which have positive and abrupt engagement, the sprag clutch engages by slight rotation of the sprags, which distributes the impulse over a longer period of time, resulting in the "softer" engagement. In theory anyway.
    With the Onyx sprag clutch the engagement feels instant and there is no perceptible lag. This is clear when playing with a bare hub by hand. However, in actual use the sprags stand up a bit under increasing torque load after engagement. Basically in normal riding the effect is like slightly pressing into a big spring. The energy is returned upon the passing of torque peaks. The effect on feel is that the edge is taken off of hard engagements and sharp torque impulses.

    A few riders seem to find it offputting, or take some time getting used to it. Most seem to like it. I think this may be related to riding style, or some people are way more sensitive to this stuff than I am. For me, I didn't really notice it until it was pointed out. I just think the hubs feel very smooth and I suppose this may be a big part of why. But it is definitely there, and it is obvious when looking for it, especially if you press the cranks hard against locked brakes.

    I do wonder if the smaller sprag package on the Vespers makes the effect more apparent, I have yet to hear anyone confirm this. It is my understanding that the sprag sizing on the original hubs was significantly more than adequate, thus allowing for some of the weight savings on the Vespers. The reactions I have heard to the Vespers match the generally strongly positive reactions from the originals. I have two sets of originals and they are far and away my favorite hubs.

  80. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by PUNKY View Post
    Not seeing the new hubs on Onyx web store. Are these hubs available in CenterLock?
    Also going to likely need a BOOST 20 CL front hub.
    Their web site stinks. There is a lot more information at the NOBL wheels website. You can also call them -- their number is buried in their web page but they do answer the phone and are available to chat.

  81. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schulze View Post
    What is this soft engagement you speak of? I have a hub on order so I'd like to know!
    I have the Vesper and come from DT-350, Chris King, old Hope Pro. I currently weight around 200lb with a pack and would not call the engagement "soft" but would call it "smooth". Where hard shifting on my other hubs would be abrupt and with a sharp "clang" the Onyx seems to "smooth out" the shift -- but the engagement is INSTANT!

    The people that have mentioned (not necc. complain) are the real heavy weight riders or those on heavy cargo bikes or fat bikes.

    I am only 3 weeks and 100mi in on XC riding and I can say these are the best hubs I have been on!!!

  82. #82
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    So, I just discovered something odd with the new hub. I'm not sure,yet, if this is something out of spec with the hub, cassette, or an installation issue of the e13 cassette -- going back to the LBS that built the wheel to have them diagnose.

    When I got the wheel back and mounted it up I immediately had new shifting issues. Indexing was slightly off and I got chain-suck into the spokes twice. So, I went about adjusting the derailleur in the stand and that is when I noticed this new issue -- there is not enough space between the smallest cog and the derailleur hanger so the chain is just barely rubbing. It is as if the entire cassette on the new hub is shifted just slightly outward compared to when it was on my DT-350. I did not notice this when pedaling -- it was more noisy than normal and I just figured it was the derailleur needing adjustment but once I got it up on the stand it was immediately apparent.

    Fortunately, I am in crappy shape and barely use the small cog right now

    Anyone else seen this?

    ** Update -- I just noticed a gap between the 1.8mm spacer and the driver which is not supposed to be there (0.625mm with a feeler gauge) so this looks like an installation issue. That spacer should sit flush against the driver. Still gonna take it to the LBS but it does not look like an issue with the hub itself.
    Last edited by spec306; 09-06-2019 at 01:13 PM.

  83. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by spec306 View Post
    ** Update -- I just noticed a gap between the 1.8mm spacer and the driver which is not supposed to be there (0.625mm with a feeler gauge) so this looks like an installation issue. That spacer should sit flush against the driver. Still gonna take it to the LBS but it does not look like an issue with the hub itself.
    My rear wheel shipped from Onyx with a rubber o-ring on the driver to hold the spacer in place. That needs to be removed before putting on the cassette. Maybe your LBS didn't remove that o-ring?

  84. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by tomtoday View Post
    My rear wheel shipped from Onyx with a rubber o-ring on the driver to hold the spacer in place. That needs to be removed before putting on the cassette. Maybe your LBS didn't remove that o-ring?
    Dude... I think you just fixed my shifting! Mine was just a hair off and when I'd swap with my other wheelset I'd have to tweak the derailleur every time. After reading your post I went to the garage and removed my cassette. Sure enough there was a rubber O-ring there. I didn't even notice it before! No one told me I'd have to remove an O-ring before installing the cassette. Bam!

  85. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nat View Post
    Dude... I think you just fixed my shifting! Mine was just a hair off and when I'd swap with my other wheelset I'd have to tweak the derailleur every time. After reading your post I went to the garage and removed my cassette. Sure enough there was a rubber O-ring there. I didn't even notice it before! No one told me I'd have to remove an O-ring before installing the cassette. Bam!
    I called Onyx to get their help in diagnosing this problem and O-ring was one of the first thing they pointed out to me. Apologies.....I should have updated the thread with this info. My LBS has the bike and will be looking for this today. I'll update the thread once I get their analysis.

    NAT--did you receive any documentation with your hub that explained this? I didn't as my LBS threw out the box.

  86. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by spec306 View Post
    I called Onyx to get their help in diagnosing this problem and O-ring was one of the first thing they pointed out to me. Apologies.....I should have updated the thread with this info. My LBS has the bike and will be looking for this today. I'll update the thread once I get their analysis.

    NAT--did you receive any documentation with your hub that explained this? I didn't as my LBS threw out the box.
    I got my wheels shipped directly to me from NOBL Wheels and I don't recall any literature within the box. Maybe there was but not that I recall.

  87. #87
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    Had a few rides out on mine now and I'm loving them. The silence is a wonderful change from my previous hubs - never thought about the difference it would make to the experience until I was out there. Instant engagement and low drag are also well worth the cost and weight penalty. The "soft start" is really welcome. The only time it feels a bit odd is bail out gear on a steep climb and a low cadence. Perhaps it's just the zero lag connection letting me feel the oval chain ring. Also, once riding gets to that gear/cadence, everything feels pretty horrible anyway!

    I have the xD driver. Like others, it came with the o-ring to hold the spacer on and there were no instructions in the box. I did have time to play with the hubs before building my wheels so noticed it before it became an issue.

    I've just been quoted £140 for a micro spline freehub body. I thought these were supposed to work with the DT version which only costs £65. Anyone know the difference?

  88. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by onzadog View Post
    I've just been quoted £140 for a micro spline freehub body. I thought these were supposed to work with the DT version which only costs £65. Anyone know the difference?
    I had the same question. The micro spline kit from Onyx includes a different end cap, and an additional seal that they press on to the DT freehub body.

  89. #89
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    The DT comes with an end cap as well. That makes it a bloody expensive seal!

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    Quote Originally Posted by onzadog View Post
    The DT comes with an end cap as well. That makes it a bloody expensive seal!
    I was told the end cap from Onyx is different. I'm assuming it's unique to them. Yeah, expensive. I couldn't justify going that route.

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    I have two built up sets. they behave just like legacy onyx. if their is concern over "softer" engagement secondary to reduced sprag area, i haven't felt it [at 215lbs and having destroyed I9s and P321s]

    they will, however, eject the driver and hub axle IF a cassette is mounted to the driver. only time it becomes an issue is if you are doing a trail side repair. if the hub axle lands in dirt, you get the pleasure of trying to decontaminate it trail side, or risk getting sand in the sprags.

  92. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by tdc_worm View Post
    only time it becomes an issue is if you are doing a trail side repair. if the hub axle lands in dirt, you get the pleasure of trying to decontaminate it trail side, or risk getting sand in the sprags.
    Or if the cap on the other end of the assembly bounces across the garage, under a car, then comes to rest beneath a shelf loaded with stuff. Not sure how I know about that...

  93. #93
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    I don't have one of these hubs but I had to pitch in to the durability of the Onyx hubs.
    We have Onxy 36h hubs on our mountain tandem. Fully loaded for bikepacking (food, water, everything else) our tandem comes in a bit over 90#. Our team weight is 340, so we have about 430# when we are moving.

    Our rear Onxy hub has been one of the most rock solid components that we have with our build. The sprag clutch has never slipped and the hubs in general have proven themselves to be bulletproof.
    Help chart the mountains at www.appalachianbiketrails.org

  94. #94
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    Hello,
    there is some delay on delivery and onyx is offering the old design with the upgraded alloy freehub if i don't want to wait.
    Thoughts on this?
    It is for my enduro bike in 27.5, main usage will be bikepark
    Cheers

  95. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by tirrorex View Post
    Hello,
    there is some delay on delivery and onyx is offering the old design with the upgraded alloy freehub if i don't want to wait.
    Thoughts on this?
    It is for my enduro bike in 27.5, main usage will be bikepark
    Cheers
    Take the deal. For a park bike you wonít notice the weight difference and the old design is stronger. NOBL even states that the older design is more suitable for DH. Scroll down to the paragraph titled ďInstant Engagement.Ē

    https://noblwheels.com/the-all-new-onyx-vesper/

  96. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nat View Post
    Take the deal. For a park bike you wonít notice the weight difference and the old design is stronger. NOBL even states that the older design is more suitable for DH. Scroll down to the paragraph titled ďInstant Engagement.Ē

    https://noblwheels.com/the-all-new-onyx-vesper/
    Well i will also use it a lot to ride a round with lots of pedaling but i won't go easy on my bike in the bikeparks

    Yeah i read that too, but i think that the upgraded freehub changes things?

    I have no clue what they mean by "upgraded alloy freehub" though :/
    Do i save weight?
    Does it have the same durability?
    I have no clue :/

  97. #97
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    I have an older wheelset set up for park with the original hub design (alloy freehub), DH casing tires, and a tire insert. I recently went on a bike trip during which I rode park but also some steep, extended climbing. I thought Iíd hate pedaling up with those heavy wheels but I got used to them and wasnít missing the lighter wheels with the Vespers that I left at home. I was glad to have the extra durability and dependability of my DH wheels when blasting down hill.

    Alloy freehub is a bit lighter than the steel. Durability might be less but mine is still good even after a couple of years of hard DH and enduro style riding.

  98. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nat View Post
    I have an older wheelset set up for park with the original hub design (alloy freehub), DH casing tires, and a tire insert. I recently went on a bike trip during which I rode park but also some steep, extended climbing. I thought Iíd hate pedaling up with those heavy wheels but I got used to them and wasnít missing the lighter wheels with the Vespers that I left at home. I was glad to have the extra durability and dependability of my DH wheels when blasting down hill.

    Alloy freehub is a bit lighter than the steel. Durability might be less but mine is still good even after a couple of years of hard DH and enduro style riding.
    I see, thanks for the clarification mate, appreciate it

  99. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by tirrorex View Post
    Hello,
    there is some delay on delivery and onyx is offering the old design with the upgraded alloy freehub if i don't want to wait.
    Thoughts on this?
    It is for my enduro bike in 27.5, main usage will be bikepark
    Cheers
    My LBS received my Vesper in 1 week from the time they ordered it. Not bad since I am in NorCal and Onyx is in Minnesota.

  100. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by spec306 View Post
    My LBS received my Vesper in 1 week from the time they ordered it. Not bad since I am in NorCal and Onyx is in Minnesota.
    The delay is related to one of the manufacturers, nothing they can do about it unfortunatly...
    It's not a shipping delay per say

    And by delay i mean 2 to 3 weeks

  101. #101
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    One thing to keep in mind is the original hubs aren't compatible with Shimano micro spline, so if one had plans to use the Shimano 12 speed stuff this may not be a good option. This is due to limited Shimano licensing, which is likely, and hopefully, a temporary issue.

  102. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by tirrorex View Post
    The delay is related to one of the manufacturers, nothing they can do about it unfortunatly...
    It's not a shipping delay per say

    And by delay i mean 2 to 3 weeks
    Delay? Is that something new? Like I stated, I got mine within one week. Keeping in mind the order processing time, then ground shipping, I would say that 1 week is pretty good!

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    Yea Onyx sent out an email last week saying any vesper hubs that didn't already ship will have 2-3 week delay, they offered the classic hub with alloy driver for no upcharge to the vesper customers who can't wait.

  104. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by compengr View Post
    One thing to keep in mind is the original hubs aren't compatible with Shimano micro spline, so if one had plans to use the Shimano 12 speed stuff this may not be a good option. This is due to limited Shimano licensing, which is likely, and hopefully, a temporary issue.
    They have Microspline conversion kits in production for the classic hubs, to be available very soon. These will use DT Swiss freehubs. Next year they may make their own version with the new Shimano license policy.

  105. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by adurant View Post
    Yea Onyx sent out an email last week saying any vesper hubs that didn't already ship will have 2-3 week delay, they offered the classic hub with alloy driver for no upcharge to the vesper customers who can't wait.
    I have to say i feel like they ripped me off.
    Had some vesper ordered with ceramic bearing (160$ extra for both hubs) but i accepted their switch offer since i needed those asap to go on vacations.
    One would assume 160$ should be given back as the offer was for hubs with classing bearings...
    They refunded only 80pounds...
    I can promise you guys they will never see my money again.

    Money is no issue here, i couldn't care less about the difference and i would've gladly paid it.
    I just have principles and when you say something, you stick to it, otherwise better not run your mouth in the first place

  106. #106
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    Anybody knows where can I buy a 12/142 Vesper hub?
    Can't find it anywhere..

  107. #107
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    You special order it through your LBS, and then maybe Onyx will take time off from making tractor parts or selling goat feed to machine you one, in a few weeks or months.

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    Seriously. There's no way I can purchase one online?

  109. #109
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    You can purchase one online. The process is going to be the same as going through your LBS.

  110. #110
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    Maybe call Nobl?

    I have my Vesper laced up, just need to put a tire on it and go for a ride. With the superlight 30mm carbon rim, it came in at 882g for the rear. Not great, not terrible.

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    I live in Tel Aviv. My LBS don't know who or what Onyx is. Ordering online is my only option. Anybody got a link? Can you please elaborate on "the process" of ordering?

  112. #112
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    Got my Vesper built up, went on a few rides. Simply magical. My bike disappeared, in the sense of no noise and no throttle lag. Now other things are starting to annoy me. I have a saddle creak I didn't notice before. That's going to have to get fixed. But, magical. I'll be buying more for sure.

  113. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schulze View Post
    Got my Vesper built up, went on a few rides. Simply magical. My bike disappeared, in the sense of no noise and no throttle lag. Now other things are starting to annoy me. I have a saddle creak I didn't notice before. That's going to have to get fixed. But, magical. I'll be buying more for sure.
    LOL.....I have the same problem. My left shoe squeaks on my TIME pedal. Never noticed that one before. Squeak squeak squeak.........every pedal stroke

  114. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by spec306 View Post
    LOL.....I have the same problem. My left shoe squeaks on my TIME pedal. Never noticed that one before. Squeak squeak squeak.........every pedal stroke

    Your old hubs made noise while pedalling?

  115. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ole View Post
    Your old hubs made noise while pedalling?
    I came from a noisy DT-350 with the 36T star ratchet which made so much noise, in general, that it masked all the other little noises my bike makes like my shoe squeaking on my pedal.

    Now that I have a dead silent Onyx hub I can hear all the other little noises.

  116. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by spec306 View Post
    I came from a noisy DT-350 with the 36T star ratchet which made so much noise, in general, that it masked all the other little noises my bike makes like my shoe squeaking on my pedal.

    Now that I have a dead silent Onyx hub I can hear all the other little noises.
    I think Ole was emphasizing the while pedaling part, as in when you're engaging the hub and not freewheeling. No hubs should be noisy then.

    Yeah, every little creak, pop, and click becomes more evident when you don't have a loud ratchet to fill the air with sound. The other day I was even noticing the sound of the fabric on my pants, lol.

  117. #117
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    I ride with a friend who is hyper aware (and hyper irritated by) bike noise, to the point of obsession.

    he recently bought Onyx wheels and loves them. However, now I have to hear his constant complaining about his brake pads rattling and fork creaking. Therefore, his wheel upgrade has detracted from my ride experience

  118. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Squeaky Wheel View Post
    I ride with a friend who is hyper aware (and hyper irritated by) bike noise, to the point of obsession.

    he recently bought Onyx wheels and loves them. However, now I have to hear his constant complaining about his brake pads rattling and fork creaking. Therefore, his wheel upgrade has detracted from my ride experience
    Haha! You should get him some noise cancelling earbuds for a gift. Or buy them for yourself, whichever works, lol.

    I'll admit that I can't stand extraneous noises from my bike either. The little shing-shing-shing as my slightly warped rotor touches my brake pads is my current nemesis.

  119. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nat View Post
    I think Ole was emphasizing the while pedaling part, as in when you're engaging the hub and not freewheeling. No hubs should be noisy then.

    Yeah, every little creak, pop, and click becomes more evident when you don't have a loud ratchet to fill the air with sound. The other day I was even noticing the sound of the fabric on my pants, lol.
    Well.....truth be told, My DT-350 was LONG overdue for bearing replacement and they were noisy all the time -- even after lubing the star ratchet. The bearings felt like there were rocks in them

    LOL about the slightly warped brake rotor.......I just replaced my rear as the noise was bugging me. My front is just slightly warped but not bad enough to bug me -- yet.

  120. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nat View Post
    Haha! You should get him some noise cancelling earbuds for a gift. Or buy them for yourself, whichever works, lol.

    I'll admit that I can't stand extraneous noises from my bike either. The little shing-shing-shing as my slightly warped rotor touches my brake pads is my current nemesis.
    you need floating rotors

  121. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by the squeaky wheel View Post
    you need floating rotors
    lol

  122. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ole View Post
    Your old hubs made noise while pedalling?
    I'm in the same boat, and it doesn't make any sense. I hate the sound of my chain scraping on the adjacent cog when I pedal and my creaky seat. These things didn't bother me before sweet coasting silence, but now they do.

  123. #123
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    I found Cycle Wheel USA is offering an attractive price on an Onyx Vesper Stans MK3 build starting at $822. Cycle Wheel also tapes the rim, provides valves and free shipping. I ordered the Crest MK3 Wheel with Sapin Race double-butted spokes and brass nipples for $822. They also can build a CWUSA carbon wheel version from $985.

    Here is the link:

    https://cyclewheelsusa.com/product/o...tans-mk3-rims/

  124. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by kopavi View Post
    ... I ordered the Crest MK3 Wheel with Sapin Race double-butted spokes and brass nipples ...
    My choice of rim also. Can you say what's the weight with these spokes and nipples?

  125. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by DogThree View Post
    My choice of rim also. Can you say what's the weight with these spokes and nipples?
    I just ordered and can provide the weight to you when I receive the wheels. I like the Stans Crest and have had a good experience with them for many miles. I believe they are one of the lighter wheels you can purchase. Dave at CWUSA can also build an Onyx Vesper hub on other wheels, his website just shows the Stans.

    When I built the same wheelset on Pro Wheel Builder the weight came in at 909.76g Rear and 677.76g for the front. Slightly different spokes were used Sapin CX Sprint on PWB and Sapin Race on CWUSA. The PWB price was 35% higher at $1,113.

  126. #126
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    Got my Vespers built up in a TR33 wheelset by NOBL. The anodized blue is a great color, btw.

    I've been riding Chris King for the past 10+ years and didn't realize I was missing engagement until I rode the Vespers. Having that extra engagement is great on techy climbs (in addition to the oval chainring that I installed at the same time). The wheels spin like the Chris Kings never did and without lateral play.

    But yeah, now you hear everything else going on with your bike. Instead of the hub now I hear the suspension doing its thing.

    I truly believe this is where hub tech will end up going. Engagement, simplicity, perfect.

  127. #127
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    Does anyone know if the new Vesper Hubs are available in centerlock? Information seems to be a little sparce...

  128. #128
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    Yes they are, they weren't available until about a month ago. I got mine built with berd spokes on chinese carbon rims and absolutely love them.

  129. #129
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    Has anyone caused theirs to slip yet? I had some high-torque situations at Gooseberry Mesa a couple weeks back, and I'm pretty sure they slipped on me 3 times. Not completely, but a few degrees.

    I've never had that with my old original onyx hubs.

    I'm wondering what else it might be.

  130. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by hardtail party View Post
    Has anyone caused theirs to slip yet? I had some high-torque situations at Gooseberry Mesa a couple weeks back, and I'm pretty sure they slipped on me 3 times. Not completely, but a few degrees.

    I've never had that with my old original onyx hubs.

    I'm wondering what else it might be.
    It will continue to get worse.

    I am working through the issue with two sets right now.

    For fun, drop the saddle, sit on the seat, put the rear der in the 50t (or highest tooth count), place a crank arm parallel to the ground, grab the rear brake, and observe how far you can depress the pedal without spinning the tire....if a 50t is a tooth every 7.2*, and you can get the cassette to spin one tooth when depressing the pedal, that would make around 7.2* before power transmission under load. i eyeballed about 1.5 teeth of movement, so close 10*. instant engagement, in this scenario, does not equate to instant torque transmission.

  131. #131
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    Darn, not what I wanted to hear. I've run the original onyx hubs on my bikes for 3 years with zero slips.

    I'll keep an eye on it and see if I can make it slip. I was in my 36t when it happened. It almost felt like the cassette tightening on the hub a few degrees, but I'm scared it was the sprag clutch slipping. My wheelset build was not cheap and I'm not looking forward to paying to have it swapped out if I have to warranty it.

    I LOVE onyx hubs, and I like the new weight of the vesper, but I may stick with my originals if this one slips more.

  132. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by hardtail party View Post
    Darn, not what I wanted to hear. I've run the original onyx hubs on my bikes for 3 years with zero slips.

    I'll keep an eye on it and see if I can make it slip. I was in my 36t when it happened. It almost felt like the cassette tightening on the hub a few degrees, but I'm scared it was the sprag clutch slipping. My wheelset build was not cheap and I'm not looking forward to paying to have it swapped out if I have to warranty it.

    I LOVE onyx hubs, and I like the new weight of the vesper, but I may stick with my originals if this one slips more.
    I love them, also. This is set 5 and 6 for me. Lets hope that its a driver tolerance/wear issue. If its a hubshell tolerance/wear issue, things start to get expensive, quick.

  133. #133
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    Are your issues just with Vesper models, or the original as well? How many of your sets have slipped?

    This is my 3rd set of onyx, but my first vespers. The shop I bought them from (Fanataik bike co) is fantastic and they're reaching out to Onyx for me. I'll let everyone know what I find.

  134. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by hardtail party View Post
    Are your issues just with Vesper models, or the original as well? How many of your sets have slipped?

    This is my 3rd set of onyx, but my first vespers. The shop I bought them from (Fanataik bike co) is fantastic and they're reaching out to Onyx for me. I'll let everyone know what I find.
    4 sets are legacy. 3 of 4 have been bullet proof. 1 set had the sprag retainer cage fail (i am sure they call it something different), which prevented the sprags from engaging. quick, easy sprag change and i was back on the trail.

    these 2 sets are vesper. both were great for a month. then both started with an increasing, springy engagement, behaving like a lower engagement (with a recoil). then both started to slip under high torque, only in the 50t on Eagle. now i can slip both in 42t pretty easy as well. it feels like loss of traction at the cranks, but rear doesn't spin. i've video'd it in a stand and exchanged it directly with Onyx. waiting on next steps.

  135. #135
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    I got some info. I don't want to copy and past email transcripts, so here's an overview:

    It sounds like a compression issue on the Driver itself. The fix is a replacement driver (easy plug and play swap with no tools).

    I'll post up once I get the new driver and keep this thread updated. Thanks for the info.

  136. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by hardtail party View Post
    I got some info. I don't want to copy and past email transcripts, so here's an overview:

    It sounds like a compression issue on the Driver itself. The fix is a replacement driver (easy plug and play swap with no tools).

    I'll post up once I get the new driver and keep this thread updated. Thanks for the info.

    That's good to hear. Replacing the sprags would require popping out and repressing the bearings on this model.

  137. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by hardtail party View Post
    Are your issues just with Vesper models, or the original as well? How many of your sets have slipped?

    This is my 3rd set of onyx, but my first vespers. The shop I bought them from (Fanataik bike co) is fantastic and they're reaching out to Onyx for me. I'll let everyone know what I find.
    Interested to see how this works out. I have a Vesper wheelset on order with Fanatik now, waiting for the hubs to complete the build.

  138. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by tdc_worm View Post
    It will continue to get worse.

    I am working through the issue with two sets right now.

    For fun, drop the saddle, sit on the seat, put the rear der in the 50t (or highest tooth count), place a crank arm parallel to the ground, grab the rear brake, and observe how far you can depress the pedal without spinning the tire....if a 50t is a tooth every 7.2*, and you can get the cassette to spin one tooth when depressing the pedal, that would make around 7.2* before power transmission under load. i eyeballed about 1.5 teeth of movement, so close 10*. instant engagement, in this scenario, does not equate to instant torque transmission.
    This sucks.
    Sorry to hear it.

    Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

  139. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by tdc_worm View Post
    It will continue to get worse.

    I am working through the issue with two sets right now.

    For fun, drop the saddle, sit on the seat, put the rear der in the 50t (or highest tooth count), place a crank arm parallel to the ground, grab the rear brake, and observe how far you can depress the pedal without spinning the tire....if a 50t is a tooth every 7.2*, and you can get the cassette to spin one tooth when depressing the pedal, that would make around 7.2* before power transmission under load. i eyeballed about 1.5 teeth of movement, so close 10*. instant engagement, in this scenario, does not equate to instant torque transmission.

    I get that you don't like the way it feels when this happens, but it's not slipping, and the "test" you've described isn't indicative of, well, anything other than pushing on the pedals with the rear brake locked when in the easiest gear.

    What you're feeling is the sprags standing up more and more as they bite. What you aren't feeling is slippage.

    Like I said -- I get that you don't like the feeling. Not everyone does. I found it disconcerting at first (years ago, with a preproduction hub), and Onyx responded by replacing my driver, which improved it.

    These days I *like* the feeling, because it means less tire slippage on steep, scrabbly climbs, as well as on snow or ice.

  140. #140
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    Thanks for pointing out the problem is me. I will learn to like it (or not), as you advised, even though, as aforementioned, my two sets of Vesper behave entirely different than my four legacy sets. Its the new performance upgrade of instant engagement, where the same size sprags take at least 90* to stand up. The test is, surely, not indicative of anything.



    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    I get that you don't like the way it feels when this happens, but it's not slipping, and the "test" you've described isn't indicative of, well, anything other than pushing on the pedals with the rear brake locked when in the easiest gear.

    What you're feeling is the sprags standing up more and more as they bite. What you aren't feeling is slippage.

    Like I said -- I get that you don't like the feeling. Not everyone does. I found it disconcerting at first (years ago, with a preproduction hub), and Onyx responded by replacing my driver, which improved it.

    These days I *like* the feeling, because it means less tire slippage on steep, scrabbly climbs, as well as on snow or ice.

  141. #141
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    Yeah that doesnít look right.

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    Oh wow. And I just got two wheelsets built up. Yikes!

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    Quote Originally Posted by tdc_worm View Post
    Thanks for pointing out the problem is me. I will learn to like it (or not), as you advised, even though, as aforementioned, my two sets of Vesper behave entirely different than my four legacy sets. Its the new performance upgrade of instant engagement, where the same size sprags take at least 90* to stand up. The test is, surely, not indicative of anything.


    The vid paints a very different picture from what I took away from your verbal description.

    What you have going on in this vid is very different from what I had, and clearly not right.

    Sorry for my misunderstanding. Please share how Onyx solves this for you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    The vid paints a very different picture from what I took away from your verbal description.

    What you have going on in this vid is very different from what I had, and clearly not right.

    Sorry for my misunderstanding. Please share how Onyx solves this for you.
    Gotcha. The soft/spongy engagement and springy disengagement that is felt at the end of the crank arm is a result of the sprawls standing up into their locking position. If there is a tolerance issue on the freehub body (or comprehensibility as HT Party mentioned above), the sprawls theoretically, could take longer to stand up, resulting in increased slop at the end of the crank arm. That slop feels like delayed transmission. This also brings up an interesting debate regarding POE: does infinite POE = instant transmission?

    Interestingly, I just found an Onyx service video, that states "Kluber ISOFLEX LDS 18 SPECIAL A is the only approved lubrication" and "will keep the clutch from slipping during high load." Add that to the variables that could be contributing to the slip.

    I wasn't going to share the video...I have zero interest in going consumer terrorist...stuff breaks. I've spun/stripped the threads on the drive ring of more than one high engagement pawl driven hub. As long as customer service is there to get you going again, I am a happy camper. To that end, I have have had first class customer service with Jim at Onyx in the past to solve problems.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    I get that you don't like the way it feels when this happens, but it's not slipping, and the "test" you've described isn't indicative of, well, anything other than pushing on the pedals with the rear brake locked when in the easiest gear.

    What you're feeling is the sprags standing up more and more as they bite. What you aren't feeling is slippage.

    Like I said -- I get that you don't like the feeling. Not everyone does. I found it disconcerting at first (years ago, with a preproduction hub), and Onyx responded by replacing my driver, which improved it.

    These days I *like* the feeling, because it means less tire slippage on steep, scrabbly climbs, as well as on snow or ice.
    As you saw, tdc_worm's problem is different.
    However I have to say that the Berd spokes that you and I both run also exhibit that same brief moment of wind up that normally operating Onyx hubs also exhibit.
    I personally would not want that feeling x2 so would not recommend stacking Onyx hubs with Berds.
    Ps. So glad I skipped on Vesper's as I was very close to choosing that route on my last wheel build.

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    I really hope this is a driver issue rather than the sprags. I recall reading or watching something from Onyx that stated the sprags would slip under high torque (more than could be generated by a normal rider), but then would return to normal operation after the torque was removed. More importantly, the sprags or hub wouldn't be damaged. Let's hope this is the case.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Suns_PSD View Post
    I personally would not want that feeling x2 so would not recommend stacking Onyx hubs with Berds.
    I wouldnt throw the baby out with the bath water here. What I think Mike is talking about is the "clunk" as you catch up to the engagement in a pawl driven system....it interrupts your cadence as the engagement is abrupt and you have a sudden deceleration at the cranks.

    In a normally operating sprag system, there is a fraction of the degree play during engagement that allows for a less harsh feeling at the pedals. I never felt any wind up issues on my other 4 sets.

  148. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by Suns_PSD View Post
    However I have to say that the Berd spokes that you and I both run also exhibit that same brief moment of wind up

    Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk
    Thanks for posting this. I asked if this was a possibility in the other thread. I'm definitely in the camp of not liking the feel of how sprags engage and am strongly considering Berd's based on all the positive feedback. I'll need to start my own thread on this regarding Berd's though.

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    Mine also "flex" about 7 degrees under the highest torque, but it's a springy action that gives back the energy. I see it as a smoothing of the torque curve and I've had no problems riding hard on technical terrain including some big ledge ups.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tdc_worm View Post
    I wouldnt throw the baby out with the bath water here. What I think Mike is talking about is the "clunk" as you catch up to the engagement in a pawl driven system....it interrupts your cadence as the engagement is abrupt and you have a sudden deceleration at the cranks.

    In a normally operating sprag system, there is a fraction of the degree play during engagement that allows for a less harsh feeling at the pedals. I never felt any wind up issues on my other 4 sets.
    To clarify, I've ridden legacy Onyx hubs (and really liked them). Berd spokes (on hubs besides Onyx) have a similar soft engagement point.
    I'd say Onyx feels a bit springy/ wound up like it gives it right back whereas Berd spokes (on non Onyx hubs) have a much more damped soft engagement feel but you don't get that 'gives it right back' sensation with the Berds.
    Just pointing out that I wouldn't want to combine those 2 attributes of the Onyx & Berds. Ultimately both are a product of flex/ give and I don't want any additional in my drivetrain as the effect of either 1 of those 2 products is enough for me, personally.
    Berds feel slow because of this sensation, but the stop watch says otherwise.

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  151. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by Suns_PSD View Post
    To clarify, I've ridden legacy Onyx hubs (and really liked them). Berd spokes (on hubs besides Onyx) have a similar soft engagement point.
    I'd say Onyx feels a bit springy/ wound up like it gives it right back whereas Berd spokes (on non Onyx hubs) have a much more damped soft engagement feel but you don't get that 'gives it back' sensation with the Berds.
    Just pointing out that I wouldn't want to combine those 2 attributes of the Onyx & Berds. Ultimately both are a product of flex/ give and I don't want any additional in my drivetrain, personally.
    Berds feel slow because of this sensation, but the stop watch says otherwise.

    Can't say that I notice Berd's changing engagement feel in any way, regardless of hub.

    Possibly because I'm riding them with 3" tires at ~mid-teen pressures full time.

    I have a Vesper/Berd/Kappius wheelset on the docket this month, for myself.

  152. #152
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    Shocked that you would say that, it's significant from my perspective.
    I'm not the only one that notices it either, when I called Berd and brought it up they told me that it's a common comment.

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  153. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by Suns_PSD View Post
    Shocked that you would say that, it's significant from my perspective.
    My experience doesnít invalidate yours. And vice versa.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tdc_worm View Post

    This is VERY disturbing! My Versper is on it's way and I really hope this wont happen on my wheel. Two things were the idea of using this hub, the silence and more important was the instant kick you can put on the wheel.

    Did this develop over time or was it like this straight from day one?

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    Quote Originally Posted by DogThree View Post




    This is VERY disturbing! My Versper is on it's way and I really hope this wont happen on my wheel. Two things were the idea of using this hub, the silence and more important was the instant kick you can put on the wheel.

    Did this develop over time or was it like this straight from day one?
    It progressed over time. Both hubs are still rideable. If its just a sit and spin scenario while climbing, I get 1:1 transmission in the 50t cog. As it gets more techy and requires more ratcheting or sudden bursts of power, I'll spin the 42t or 36t cog to prevent slippage. It's not a catastrophic failure in the sense that I have to push the bike out (I've had several catastrophic failures of other hubs before)....I actually count that as a major plus having pushed several bikes out before [I am looking at you, pawl driven designs]. The phenomena is only observed in climbing. Trail riding or DH where you are in the middle of the cassette or higher, everything behaves as advertised.

    To be clear, I am 100% confident that Onyx will get it sorted quickly...they are fantastic to work with. I think its just one of three things: Hub shell tolerance, Freehub tolerance, or potentially a lube issue.

  156. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by DogThree View Post


    This is VERY disturbing! My Versper is on it's way and I really hope this wont happen on my wheel. Two things were the idea of using this hub, the silence and more important was the instant kick you can put on the wheel.

    Did this develop over time or was it like this straight from day one?
    I wouldn't be disturbed unless it becomes an actual problem on one's own wheel. Stressing and hand-wringing isn't going to achieve anything other than causing anxiety.

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    I'm stressed about being in a situation where I'm trying to clear a rock two or three feet high, or more, and the burst of spin I try to put on the wheel will feel like a 25 buck freewheel screwing itself deeper into the hub instead of moving me forward.

  158. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by DogThree View Post
    I'm stressed about being in a situation where I'm trying to clear a rock two or three feet high, or more, and the burst of spin I try to put on the wheel will feel like a 25 buck freewheel screwing itself deeper into the hub instead of moving me forward.
    If it makes you feel any better I've done that all season on the Vesper and it hasn't slipped once.

  159. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by DogThree View Post
    I'm stressed about being in a situation where I'm trying to clear a rock two or three feet high, or more, and the burst of spin I try to put on the wheel will feel like a 25 buck freewheel screwing itself deeper into the hub instead of moving me forward.
    i don't have issues with anything like that.

  160. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by DogThree View Post
    I'm stressed about being in a situation where I'm trying to clear a rock two or three feet high, or more, and the burst of spin I try to put on the wheel will feel like a 25 buck freewheel screwing itself deeper into the hub instead of moving me forward.
    That's exactly what mine feels like, but hopefully that will be resolved with my new driver.

    I feel like most vespers are fine.

  161. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by DogThree View Post
    My choice of rim also. Can you say what's the weight with these spokes and nipples?
    The weight for the Stans Crest 32 spoke setup was 776g front and 1012g rear.

    Haven't ridden the wheels yet to see if the problems folks are reporting impact the wheels I purchased. I'll update after riding.

  162. #162
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    I just received my warranty replacement part. excited to pop it in tomorrow. Excellent CS from onyx.

  163. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by hardtail party View Post
    I just received my warranty replacement part. excited to pop it in tomorrow. Excellent CS from onyx.
    Same here. 2 x large Sprag clutch assemblies and 2 x freehub body.
    I need to purchase a bearing puller and press, but that is way easier than shipping two rear wheels to Onyx.
    Unlikely that I will get a ride report before the turn of the year with winter travel taking priority.

  164. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by tdc_worm View Post
    I need to purchase a bearing puller and press, but that is way easier than shipping two rear wheels to Onyx.
    You could also have your LBS change the bearings since they probably already have the tools. Mine charged me only a very small amount for the work.

  165. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nat View Post
    You could also have your LBS change the bearings since they probably already have the tools. Mine charged me only a very small amount for the work.
    6805 bearing extractor and press can be had for about $30. that more than accounts for the fuel and time to make two trips to and fro the LBS. plus i will have them for a liftetime. additionally, Onyx wants the hubshell hit with 800 grit.

    if you want something done right, do it yourself....
    Last edited by tdc_worm; 12-15-2019 at 08:26 PM.

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    [QUOTE=tdc_worm;14472815]6805 bearing extractor and press can be had for about $30. that more than accounts for the fuel and time to make to trips to and fro the LBS. plus i will have them for a liftetime. additionally, Onyx wants the hubshell hit with 800 grit.
    =======================================


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  167. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by tdc_worm View Post
    6805 bearing extractor and press can be had for about $30. that more than accounts for the fuel and time to make to trips to and fro the LBS. plus i will have them for a liftetime. additionally, Onyx wants the hubshell hit with 800 grit.

    if you want something done right, do it yourself....
    My LBS did it right. Anyway, I was just offering up another option instead of buying tools that you'll only use once in awhile. Happy wrenching.

    Quote Originally Posted by tdc_worm View Post


    """ if you want something done right, do it yourself...."""

    HALELULEYA
    Does that include spelling?

    Calm down, I'm just teasing you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nat View Post
    My LBS did it right. Anyway, I was just offering up another option instead of buying tools that you'll only use once in awhile. Happy wrenching.



    Does that include spelling?

    Calm down, I'm just teasing you.

    i looked it up, & there were so many different ways, i thought i'd go w/ my first lame attempt. but i do thinck my renchin is a step uhbuve my spelln, fershurr
    breezy shade

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    I was able to swap out my new driver in 2 min. Super easy to do with no tools required. Even easier than a dt350. Thank you onyx. I'll report back after I put some miles on this thing in high torque situations.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nat View Post
    My LBS did it right.
    did they resurface the inner hubshell with 800 grit?

    the LBS is an option, for sure....just like have a mechanic change a bad starter on your car is an option rather than buying a set of hand tools. i tend to think of it more in terms of value than cost. the tools have a resale and a reuse value....my time, fuel, miles, etc twice to the bike shop, do not have a resale or resuse value.

    Quote Originally Posted by hardtail party View Post
    I was able to swap out my new driver in 2 min. Super easy to do with no tools required. Even easier than a dt350. Thank you onyx. I'll report back after I put some miles on this thing in high torque situations.
    i take it you didnt replace the large sprag clutch assembly and pull/press the drive side bearing?

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    Nope, I only swapped the driver. Mine was nowhere near as bad as yours.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hardtail party View Post
    Nope, I only swapped the driver. Mine was nowhere near as bad as yours.
    That's interesting. My understanding is that there are two possible mechanisms of slip:

    #1 - the driver slipping in the sprag assembly
    #2 - the sprag assembly slipping in the hubshell

  173. #173
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    I have had 10 rides on my BTLOS built with 32H and 30i. I can't put enough torque on them to make them slip, so I think the Vespers are the best thing available. I have 3 sets of CK's on my road and 26er for the last 25 years and now I won't purchase anything but Onyx. All of sudden I think the angry bees annoy me when I used to like it. The Onyx instant engagement just feels good and the long coasting due to no drag is very noticable.

  174. #174
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    I had the slippage issue. warranty didnt fix it so I sent it back to onyx for a full hub replacement. we'll see later this week

  175. #175
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hbnel5on View Post
    I had the slippage issue. warranty didnt fix it so I sent it back to onyx for a full hub replacement. we'll see later this week
    what warranty service was completed? What parts were replaced?

  176. #176
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    Quote Originally Posted by tdc_worm View Post
    what warranty service was completed? What parts were replaced?
    the two drive rings

  177. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hbnel5on View Post
    the two drive rings
    the two sprag clutch assemblies? what about the freehub driver?

  178. #178
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    Quote Originally Posted by tdc_worm View Post
    the two sprag clutch assemblies? what about the freehub driver?
    correct. no driver replacement. they just said use some very fine grit sand paper and scuff it

  179. #179
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    Try Project 321 hubs with the silent magnetic paws. Very quiet, but not quite silent. Very well engineered.
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  180. #180
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    Quote Originally Posted by mattnz View Post
    Try Project 321 hubs with the silent magnetic paws. Very quiet, but not quite silent. Very well engineered.
    Yep, I'm a fan of P321.
    I bought one of the first sets and several months back bought my second set. They were good initially but back to back the second set was notably better.
    They roll fantastic, nearly instant engagement, lightweight, reliable (they had a few issues in the beginning but are dialed now), and nearly silent.
    I had narrowed it down to Vesper's or the P321s, and I'm glad I choose P321.

    Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

  181. #181
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    my onyx with the new driver shaft is flawless. I've put it thorough some high torque climbs with zero slippage.
    Last edited by hardtail party; 01-28-2020 at 09:16 PM.

  182. #182
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    My wife has p321s and I'm not a fan. Weird tools required to work on them. We had to swap out the drive ring already, and she weighs 105 lbs. And they're definitely not silent. They're louder than Chris kings now.

    The guys at p321 are really nice but I can't recommend their hubs. Their customer service has been great though.

  183. #183
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    I'm running the classic Onyx on my ebike and the Vespers on my Hightower, both are sensational and get on with their job silently and efficiently. Money well spent.

  184. #184
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    I had two 321 wheelsets recently and twice had a magnet detach from the pawl which trashed the drive ring and other pawls. The guys at 321 were great but I ended up selling both wheelsets. I liked the low noise and quick engagement but ended up not trusting the hubs. Just got a wheelset with Vespers.

  185. #185
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    New S35/Vesper wheelset

    Got my S35/Vesper wheelset from Fanatik yesterday and the wheels are gorgeous. 1780 grams with tape and valves (29er). Had the first ride on them today and what's immediately noticeable is a smooth, damp, quiet ride compared to the DT Swiss M1700 wheels I previously had on the bike. The smooth/damp part I'm sure is from the S35 rims (which actually measure 34.6mm internal). The quiet part is from the Vespers which are dead silent, so the only noise you hear is the tire on the trail, and the experience is really enjoyable. It sounds like a riding video where the audio is enhanced. The engagement is interesting. Engagement is instantaneous, however, there is a zone of "squish" or "give" for about 1-2 degrees before the engagement locks in and full torque is applied to the wheel. It feels very smooth compared to a metal pawl engaging a tooth on metal drive ring- the best analog I can think of is an automatic transmission compared to a manual transmission. Overall very happy with how the Vespers feel/ride.

    Any Onyx Vesper users yet? Reviews?-img_1157.jpgAny Onyx Vesper users yet? Reviews?-img_1158.jpgAny Onyx Vesper users yet? Reviews?-img_1162.jpg

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    Missing HG clips

    Hi fellas,
    Hope you are all well and having a happy Christmas.
    I finally received the hub and it looks and feels great.
    Only one thing though, I think I'm missing a couple of the stainless clips that are to hold against the cassette:
    Any Onyx Vesper users yet? Reviews?-img_20191228_164644.jpgAny Onyx Vesper users yet? Reviews?-img_20191228_164622.jpgAny Onyx Vesper users yet? Reviews?-img_20191228_164613.jpg
    On the two different ones. I tried putting on a part of the cassette and its no where near as tight as a regular freehub.
    Looking at the photos on the website it clearly show these two also have the clips in them.
    Couldn't find the clips for order as spare parts.
    Any ideas?
    Is it possible to use like that?
    Can I fabricate something myself?
    Please help. I really want to ride this hub!

  187. #187
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    How about you call Onyx? They're very accessible and super friendly.

  188. #188
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    Quote Originally Posted by DogThree View Post
    Hi fellas,
    Hope you are all well and having a happy Christmas.
    I finally received the hub and it looks and feels great.
    Only one thing though, I think I'm missing a couple of the stainless clips that are to hold against the cassette:
    Click image for larger version. 

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    On the two different ones. I tried putting on a part of the cassette and its no where near as tight as a regular freehub.
    Looking at the photos on the website it clearly show these two also have the clips in them.
    Couldn't find the clips for order as spare parts.
    Any ideas?
    Is it possible to use like that?
    Can I fabricate something myself?
    Please help. I really want to ride this hub!
    What clips are you talking about?

    Regardless, if youíre missing a part from a new hub then call Onyx and theyíll send you whatever it is. You shouldnít have to fabricate a part.

  189. #189
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    These clips:

    Any Onyx Vesper users yet? Reviews?-screenshot_20191228-223139__01.jpg

    In blue -the stainless steel clips that prevent the cassette from digging into the alloy freehub.
    In red -is where they are missing.
    Anyone here has this 11s configuration and can send a photo of his rig?
    I have sent them a message. Only problem is I am not on the same continent as you guys

  190. #190
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    Just an update,
    Received an email from Onyx. They say this is the way it was designed.
    I still wonder why the photos on the website has all the slots protected by clips if the design leaves two without them.

  191. #191
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    If there's only two without, they could very well be around the rear of the freehub in the photo you've seen.

    From an engineering point if view, you don't need them all protected to avoid cutting into the Ali.

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    I just ordered a rear Vesper for Dave Thomas of Dave's Speed Dream to lace into my Roval Carbon Fattie SL rim, super stoked for the silence. I've tried the DT grease in my 54t ratchet, and while it quiets it down for a bit, within an hour or so it's right back to "pretty loud" again.

    Can't wait to start tracing down little noises now...haha
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  193. #193
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    Quote Originally Posted by blaklabl View Post
    I just ordered a rear Vesper for Dave Thomas of Dave's Speed Dream to lace into my Roval Carbon Fattie SL rim, super stoked for the silence. I've tried the DT grease in my 54t ratchet, and while it quiets it down for a bit, within an hour or so it's right back to "pretty loud" again.

    Can't wait to start tracing down little noises now...haha
    Got my wheel back last night, it's so silent and smooth! Can't wait to get out on the trails this weekend.

    Unfortunately, I had the same "cassette and driver" falling off issue. I mounted my eagle cassette, flipped the wheel over to put the disc rotor back on, and the cassette and driver (and end cap) hit the floor. The only difference is that mine didn't bring the whole axle with it, just the cassette and driver. I sent ONYX an email to see what they say, the o-ring is in there and appears to be seated fine, I don't know. But when mounted up its awesome - just don't want to get on the trailside and have to make a repair, and have it hit the dirt and get all kinds of stuff inside.

    I'll post up when I get a response.
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  194. #194
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    Quote Originally Posted by blaklabl View Post
    Got my wheel back last night, it's so silent and smooth! Can't wait to get out on the trails this weekend.

    Unfortunately, I had the same "cassette and driver" falling off issue. I mounted my eagle cassette, flipped the wheel over to put the disc rotor back on, and the cassette and driver (and end cap) hit the floor. The only difference is that mine didn't bring the whole axle with it, just the cassette and driver. I sent ONYX an email to see what they say, the o-ring is in there and appears to be seated fine, I don't know. But when mounted up its awesome - just don't want to get on the trailside and have to make a repair, and have it hit the dirt and get all kinds of stuff inside.

    I'll post up when I get a response.
    Response from Onyx:

    Hi Eric,

    Apologies for the trouble there.
    If the o-ring is not seating in the groove on the axle, you may need to twist the end cap to get it to seat in the groove.
    If you would like to purchase new end caps the price is $20 per end cap, plus shipping. We did make the groove in the end cap a bit shallower to help the o-ring protrude and get a bit more traction on the axle.
    Thank you,

    Dan Peterson


    I'm going to try "twisting" the endcaps per the suggestion, but am a little disappointed that I would need to fork out $40 for new endcaps on a hub I just got a week ago. Seems like if there was an issue (obviously they knew about it, hence the change to the design), they would send the revised parts no charge.

    No doubt the hub rips, holy crap it rolls so fast, but $460 and then to have a known issue still happening requiring a fix, not really cool in my opinion.
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  195. #195
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    Quote Originally Posted by blaklabl View Post
    Response from Onyx:

    Hi Eric,

    Apologies for the trouble there.
    If the o-ring is not seating in the groove on the axle, you may need to twist the end cap to get it to seat in the groove.
    If you would like to purchase new end caps the price is $20 per end cap, plus shipping. We did make the groove in the end cap a bit shallower to help the o-ring protrude and get a bit more traction on the axle.
    Thank you,

    Dan Peterson


    I'm going to try "twisting" the endcaps per the suggestion, but am a little disappointed that I would need to fork out $40 for new endcaps on a hub I just got a week ago. Seems like if there was an issue (obviously they knew about it, hence the change to the design), they would send the revised parts no charge.

    No doubt the hub rips, holy crap it rolls so fast, but $460 and then to have a known issue still happening requiring a fix, not really cool in my opinion.

    They replaced my whole hub when it was causing me issues.. all $460 of it. Even had them change the color of it to be sure.

  196. #196
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    We've had a bunch of them come through the shop and customers seem to be super stoked on them. I am still a fan of the "classic" design from a looks perspective,, but that's the old school in me coming out
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  197. #197
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    Really dumb question but it's relevant to my purchase of an onyx hub so here goes - Is a shimano HG freehub the same for road and mtb 11 speed cassettes? Figured dusty can confirm for me

    I want to get a rear hub for my disc road bike and I'd rather get the centerlock vesper vs the cyclocross hub which appears to be the old version. I'm not into these hubs for trail riding but silent gliding on my road bike would be awesome.

  198. #198
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    Quote Originally Posted by 92gli View Post
    Really dumb question but it's relevant to my purchase of an onyx hub so here goes - Is a shimano HG freehub the same for road and mtb 11 speed cassettes? Figured dusty can confirm for me

    I want to get a rear hub for my disc road bike and I'd rather get the centerlock vesper vs the cyclocross hub which appears to be the old version. I'm not into these hubs for trail riding but silent gliding on my road bike would be awesome.
    Yessir, they are the same. If you are running the hub with an 11 speed mtn. cassette, keep the included cassette spacer in place. If you are running 11 speed road cassette, remove the cassette spacer.

    Thanks it
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  199. #199
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    Quote Originally Posted by dustyduke22 View Post
    Yessir, they are the same. If you are running the hub with an 11 speed mtn. cassette, keep the included cassette spacer in place. If you are running 11 speed road cassette, remove the cassette spacer.

    Thanks it
    Is this also true for the original Onyx MTB hubs? The website says they have 11-speed freehub bodies, but somebody told me they only take 10-speed road cassettes.

    I'm currently trying to decide between the original and the Vesper for my gravel/endurance bike, which has an 11-speed Shimano road groupset (with a 11-34T HG700 cassette).

    For me, reliability is absolutely the most important thing, so I quite like the idea of a hub that's a bit over-built. I want it to be bomb-proof. Weight doesn't bother me that much because my bike is usually laden with loads of extra crap anyway. I also prefer the classic looks of the original

  200. #200
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inquisitor View Post
    Is this also true for the original Onyx MTB hubs? The website says they have 11-speed freehub bodies, but somebody told me they only take 10-speed road cassettes.

    I'm currently trying to decide between the original and the Vesper for my gravel/endurance bike, which has an 11-speed Shimano road groupset (with a 11-34T HG700 cassette).

    For me, reliability is absolutely the most important thing, so I quite like the idea of a hub that's a bit over-built. I want it to be bomb-proof. Weight doesn't bother me that much because my bike is usually laden with loads of extra crap anyway. I also prefer the classic looks of the original
    The freehub body should be the same and fit either 11spd mountain or road. The difference is the width of the cassettes. MTB 11spd is not as wide and will require a small spacer (1.8mm I think) behind the cassette. Should be supplied by the hub manufacturer.

    Road 11spd cassettes require no spacer as they are slightly wider. For reference: 10 Spd road is the same width as 11spd mtn.
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