Any Onyx Vesper users yet? Reviews? - Page 2- Mtbr.com
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  1. #201
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    Quote Originally Posted by *OneSpeed* View Post
    The freehub body should be the same and fit either 11spd mountain or road. The difference is the width of the cassettes. MTB 11spd is not as wide and will require a small spacer (1.8mm I think) behind the cassette. Should be supplied by the hub manufacturer.

    Road 11spd cassettes require no spacer as they are slightly wider. For reference: 10 Spd road is the same width as 11spd mtn.
    That's interesting this contradicts what my LBS says I'll double check with Onyx before ordering better safe than sorry!

    I remember having the same problem with my Hope Pro 2 Evo a few years ago I had to make sure that I specifically ordered the wider freehub body that is 11sp-road-compatible. I think the standard one was designed only for MTB cassettes (and didn't have a removable spacer).

    Thanks!

  2. #202
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inquisitor View Post
    That's interesting this contradicts what my LBS says I'll double check with Onyx before ordering better safe than sorry!

    I remember having the same problem with my Hope Pro 2 Evo a few years ago I had to make sure that I specifically ordered the wider freehub body that is 11sp-road-compatible. I think the standard one was designed only for MTB cassettes (and didn't have a removable spacer).

    Thanks!
    Weird. I don't know of any US manufacturers that are spec'ing MTB only freehub bodies. The last 3-4 Hope hubs I've seen came with the spacer. All were Pro4 variants though.

    Probably best to check with Onyx.
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  3. #203
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inquisitor View Post
    Is this also true for the original Onyx MTB hubs? The website says they have 11-speed freehub bodies, but somebody told me they only take 10-speed road cassettes.

    I'm currently trying to decide between the original and the Vesper for my gravel/endurance bike, which has an 11-speed Shimano road groupset (with a 11-34T HG700 cassette).

    For me, reliability is absolutely the most important thing, so I quite like the idea of a hub that's a bit over-built. I want it to be bomb-proof. Weight doesn't bother me that much because my bike is usually laden with loads of extra crap anyway. I also prefer the classic looks of the original
    Yessir, same with the old hub, unless you have a specific 10 speed hub. Then it wont work with an 11 speed road.

    Both with give you a bomber setup. Vesper will just save the weight

  4. #204
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    Just got a microspline vesper and wanted to post the weight in case anyone is interested
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Any Onyx Vesper users yet? Reviews?-20200124_180043.jpg  

    Last edited by BillT; 01-27-2020 at 06:21 AM.

  5. #205
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    Who stocks them in EU, other than Evolutioncycles?

  6. #206
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    I'm happy to report no slipping after the warranty fix from Onyx. These ride just like my old original onyx hubs, though they're 1/4 lb lighter.

  7. #207
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    Quote Originally Posted by drtipes View Post
    Who stocks them in EU, other than Evolutioncycles?
    I'm looking at getting mine from these guys: https://www.light-wolf.de/ But it works out just as expensive as ordering them yourself and paying all the associated import duties (but at least you don't have to deal with it yourself).

    I asked my LBS in Germany about Onyx hubs and this shop was all they could find (no actual supplier).

  8. #208
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    Quote Originally Posted by *OneSpeed* View Post
    Weird. I don't know of any US manufacturers that are spec'ing MTB only freehub bodies. The last 3-4 Hope hubs I've seen came with the spacer. All were Pro4 variants though.

    Probably best to check with Onyx.
    So according to Onyx, all of hubs currently shipping will be compatible with 11-speed road. The classic hub will also get an adapter for the "Moduler Freehub Unit" (so it can be used with Micro Spline), but it's not ready yet. They didn't give me an ETA.

  9. #209
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    Anyone done a side-by-side test, Vesper vs a hub with pawls, on a ledgy climb to see which was faster? I'm curious to know if the "soft engagement" has any effect on overall performance on technical climbs with lots of high-torque situations.

  10. #210
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    Its a subtle thing that you may or may not be able to feel, but its not going to change your ability to make a climb
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  11. #211
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    I agree. I have vespers, original onyx, and i9 Hydra on my bikes. All of them are great and can all get you up a ledgy climb. I like the vespers the best.

    Once engwgee, they all feel the same. The soft engagement doesn't really take up any rotation. It's practically instant.

  12. #212
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    I find it interesting that people talk about a "soft" feel with Onyx hubs. I have the Vespers laced to carbon wheels and have found them to be the best hubs I have ever used. I never realized what I was missing until I started riding the Vespers. The engagement is instantaneous and allows me to get through technical sections and up the other side of dips that I could never clean before. At 205lbs, I have not found the engagement to be soft or mushy but just very smooth and direct. As an additional benefit, this smoothness also seems to have improved the shifting on my SRAM 12 speed drivetrain. Very stoked so far with these hubs and hope they last a long time.

  13. #213
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    Sit on your bike with the chain on one of the larger cogs. Lock the rear wheel in place with the rear brake and push on a pedal. Youll clearly see the crank arm rotate while the hub is locked in place. Theres your soft engagement or squish zone in high torque situations.

  14. #214
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    Quote Originally Posted by hrdude View Post
    I find it interesting that people talk about a "soft" feel with Onyx hubs. I have the Vespers laced to carbon wheels and have found them to be the best hubs I have ever used. I never realized what I was missing until I started riding the Vespers. The engagement is instantaneous and allows me to get through technical sections and up the other side of dips that I could never clean before. At 205lbs, I have not found the engagement to be soft or mushy but just very smooth and direct. As an additional benefit, this smoothness also seems to have improved the shifting on my SRAM 12 speed drivetrain. Very stoked so far with these hubs and hope they last a long time.

    Quote Originally Posted by mlloyd007 View Post
    Sit on your bike with the chain on one of the larger cogs. Lock the rear wheel in place with the rear brake and push on a pedal. Youll clearly see the crank arm rotate while the hub is locked in place. Theres your soft engagement or squish zone in high torque situations.
    and just for fun, infinite/instant engagement DOES NOT equal instant transmission. The sprawls have to stand up to bind the free hub driver to the hub shell. There is a time delay and a distance associated with the physics of the sprawls standing up...hence the slop at the end of the crank arm.

  15. #215
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    I'm curious what the recommended maintenance for the Vesper hubs is. I've been using DT Swiss 240s hubs for years now, mostly because they are so simple to take care of. I love the idea of nearly silent hubs, and I don't have any issue with the soft engagement that I've read about with these, but I haven't seen much discussion of how easy the hubs are to service and maintain.
    Last edited by SqueakyWheel73; 02-02-2020 at 06:56 PM.

  16. #216
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    zero maintenance required for my onyx hubs in over 5,000 miles.

  17. #217
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    Quote Originally Posted by tdc_worm View Post
    and just for fun, infinite/instant engagement DOES NOT equal instant transmission. The sprawls have to stand up to bind the free hub driver to the hub shell. There is a time delay and a distance associated with the physics of the sprawls standing up...hence the slop at the end of the crank arm.

    Sprawls?

    I'll grant you the fact that it's not instant transmission. In a lab setting.

    But it's fast enough for 99.99999% of humans, out in the world.

  18. #218
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    Sprawls?

    I'll grant you the fact that it's not instant transmission. In a lab setting.

    But it's fast enough for 99.99999% of humans, out in the world.
    sprawls? yeah. sprawls. those things that stand up and bind the freehub body to the hubshell. dont shoot the messenger, see 1:30, 1:57 and 2:05 in Onyx's own video:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...ature=emb_logo

    will you grant me the fact that it is also not instant transmission in real life? if you will recall, post #140 of this topic is the video where i show the cranks spinning with no power transmission in the hub. i remember you calling me out that in post #139 saying that I will get used to it, and its not slipping.

    the point of the point is that instant engagement does not equal instant transmission, especially if there is any slip, which several of us have experienced. i don't care about instant anything. that's not why i ride these hubs. i just like the silence...it lets me know how poor the maintenance is on the rest of my bike. although, my bike has never been quieter now that i cannot ride it as the hubs are off for a second diagnosis/fix. maybe i'll use the downtime to supplement the hub's silence by knocking out that maintenance, haha.

  19. #219
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    Quote Originally Posted by tdc_worm View Post
    sprawls? yeah. sprawls. those things that stand up and bind the freehub body to the hubshell. dont shoot the messenger, see 1:30, 1:57 and 2:05 in Onyx's own video:

    easy chief -- i wasn't shooting anybody, i'd just never heard that term before. now i know.


    Quote Originally Posted by tdc_worm View Post
    will you grant me the fact that it is also not instant transmission in real life? if you will recall, post #140 of this topic is the video where i show the cranks spinning with no power transmission in the hub. i remember you calling me out that in post #139 saying that I will get used to it, and its not slipping.

    the point of the point is that instant engagement does not equal instant transmission, especially if there is any slip

    iirc your hub was broken. which is a bummer.

    but i don't think, generally speaking, that people are speaking in terms of malfunctioning hubs when they talk about engagement.

    maybe i'm misinformed on that...

  20. #220
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    Quote Originally Posted by tdc_worm View Post
    sprawls? yeah. sprawls. those things that stand up and bind the freehub body to the hubshell. dont shoot the messenger, see 1:30, 1:57 and 2:05 in Onyx's own video:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...ature=emb_logo

    will you grant me the fact that it is also not instant transmission in real life? if you will recall, post #140 of this topic is the video where i show the cranks spinning with no power transmission in the hub. i remember you calling me out that in post #139 saying that I will get used to it, and its not slipping.

    the point of the point is that instant engagement does not equal instant transmission, especially if there is any slip, which several of us have experienced. i don't care about instant anything. that's not why i ride these hubs. i just like the silence...it lets me know how poor the maintenance is on the rest of my bike. although, my bike has never been quieter now that i cannot ride it as the hubs are off for a second diagnosis/fix. maybe i'll use the downtime to supplement the hub's silence by knocking out that maintenance, haha.
    Sprag - engagement system used by Onyx
    Pawls - common engagement system used by many hub companies
    Sprawl - dunno

    I saw post 140, and it seems most people agree there is a defect. I also saw post 143 where @mikesee owned the misunderstanding. I also read post 144 where things seemed to be "all good"

    Onyx hubs, when working right, are as close to instant as you'll get (1-2 degrees of engagement). That's not what you experienced in your video, but I think we all can agree that is a malfunction (the slipping). That slip doesn't exist in standard production hubs. The amount of torque applied to a wheel that is almost immobilized in a stand (to create that slip) is not typical of general use. Could you over-torque a sprag clutch hub to create slipping - I'm sure it's possible.

  21. #221
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrob View Post
    Onyx hubs, when working right, are as close to instant as you'll get (1-2 degrees of engagement). That's not what you experienced in your video, but I think we all can agree that is a malfunction (the slipping). That slip doesn't exist in standard production hubs.
    Both are standard production hubs. Unless you are suggesting that Onyx shipped pre production hubs to We Are One and ProBikeSupply?

    Quote Originally Posted by mrob View Post
    The amount of torque applied to a wheel that is almost immobilized in a stand (to create that slip) is not typical of general use. Could you over-torque a sprag clutch hub to create slipping - I'm sure it's possible.
    nah. the stand has no impact on the power produced by my legs, which the drivetrain then converts to torque. all bike riding starts from zero mph, which is the speed of the bike in the stand. all the stand is doing is providing a square edge, and allowing me to balance to demonstrate the slipping on video. i can do it with one foot on the ground and rear brake squeezed, out of the stand, just as easy. a track stand, slow square edge step ups, and accelerating up steep techy climbs all comes to mind as real world scenarios, all of which i have felt slip.

    but lets assume your premise may be true. if it is true, then it is more damming to the reliability of the hub. so with less torque, i can make them slip in both 50 and 42t on the trail.

    you don't have to believe my 2 (now 4) vesper failures or the others that have experienced the same issue...but we are providing real world data points. i am not emotionally attached to these hubs, to the legacy Onyx hub I broke, or to the I9 or P321 hubs that I have stripped the drive rings out of. Its an early adopters tax which I am comfortable with. I am confident Onyx will get it fixed.

  22. #222
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    I decided to pull the trigger on an Onyx Vesper for my new wheelset. I think something's wrong with mine. I expected it to have less hub drag than my White Industries hub because the Onyx has no pawls, but the White will consistently spin for 8-10 seconds, while the Vesper is a consistent 4-5 seconds (as counted in my head). It's also not exactly silent either. Does this look (and sound) right to you guys?

    https://youtu.be/NcKxHjA9xog

  23. #223
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    Sound on the Onyx is about right. Have you had them long enough to bed them in yet?

  24. #224
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    Yeah, they just need to get some miles on them. My very first set was super smooth and free feeling from day one, but newer sets have been noticeably tighter at first. Someone at Onyx told me they tightened up their specs a touch and it makes for more of a distinct break in period. And with the smaller sprag assembly in the Vespers and the slipping problems some people reported, they may have even tightened them up a bit more. The sprags require a very precise fit to work correctly.

  25. #225
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    Quote Originally Posted by onzadog View Post
    Sound on the Onyx is about right. Have you had them long enough to bed them in yet?
    I took that video before riding them, but I put 20+ miles of trail on them yesterday, then removed the wheel afterward to check it. The drag is still exactly the same (cassette spins about 4 seconds when I turn it hard by hand), but the noise has gone away and it's now silent.

    The bigger issue is the slippage I encountered on my ride. It was significant while riding a sustained, steep climb in my 50t (Toys R Us road climb next to BCGB 360 access for anyone who knows it). I got dropped big time (and it wasn't because of the rider that day). I could feel the cranks losing resistance with each big push through the steepest part. At the top I did some track stands while holding my brakes and was able to demonstrate the slippage to my riding bud, though it was way more apparent during the climb. What's interesting is that I did not notice any slippage on short punchy single track climbs, with lots of technical ledges and I probably cleaned more than average this day.

    Gonna work with my LBS and Onyx to see if anything needs repair, but I'm concerned this may be a design defect, not a manufacturing defect, based on other comments here. In which case I'll switch to a different hub, rather than wait for Onyx to work it out, because the slippage was significant enough I'm not willing to put up with it.

  26. #226
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    I hate that climb!

    Anyways, if you want to pedal a P321 in S. Austin you'r welcome to PM me for a quick pedal around.

    Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

  27. #227
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    Quote Originally Posted by tdc_worm View Post
    Its an early adopters tax which I am comfortable with. I am confident Onyx will get it fixed.

    Have they solved this for you yet? Curious what steps they've taken, and what difference each step has made.

  28. #228
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    Quote Originally Posted by bassamp View Post
    The bigger issue is the slippage I encountered on my ride.
    Two questions for you:
    - How much do you weigh?
    - On the climb was it slipping during seated efforts, standing efforts, or both?

    I'm curious if the slipping occurs at a certain torque threshold. If so then a lighter rider with a 36 or 42 big gear might not have nearly as much to worry about as a heavy rider pushing a 50t.

    Thoughts?

  29. #229
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    Quote Originally Posted by ViperDom View Post
    Two questions for you:
    - How much do you weigh?
    - On the climb was it slipping during seated efforts, standing efforts, or both?

    I'm curious if the slipping occurs at a certain torque threshold. If so then a lighter rider with a 36 or 42 big gear might not have nearly as much to worry about as a heavy rider pushing a 50t.

    Thoughts?
    Maybe. I'm 195lbs, 14bfp, 6'2" and race SS (and geared sometimes). I was seated. I think it's interesting that this occurred during a sustained climb, while the rest of my ride that day was short punchy stuff. I'm gonna ride this wheel again on Friday and target similar climbs, so I'll report back on results. Talking with Onyx as well.

  30. #230
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    Vesper Slippage

    Here is my experience with the Vesper and the slippage issue:

    I have had a a set of wheels with Onyx Classic hubs with several years and thousands of trouble free miles on them.

    In September I ordered a set of wheels from Light Bicycle with the Vesper hubs. I noticed them slipping on the first ride on steep climbs where I had to put the power down to get myself over a rock or root. It only slipped in the 30/50 gear but I could reproduce it consistently. For the record I'm and expert level rider with 30+ years of experience, weigh 195lbs suited up, and ride in the steep and technical terrain of Northern Colorado.

    I contacted Onyx and they sent out a new set of sprag clutches and said they had some that were made to the incorrect tolerance so there was a chance they could slip. Installed those and it still slipped.

    Next, I sent my wheel back to them and they rebuilt the hub for me with all new internals and upgraded me to ceramic bearings for free. I got it back and it slipped on the first ride.

    After contacting them again, they had Light Bicycle build me a new wheel with a new Vesper hub and, guess what? It slipped on the first ride.

    After contacting them again, they said they were having problems with the cylinder that the sprags contact to transmit torque deforming under load and that was causing the slippage. They offered to send out the parts and guaranteed that it would fix the problem but I requested for them to swap me over to a classic hub, which they did after I sent my wheel in to them. they rebuilt my wheel with the classic hub and also gave me a great deal on a front wheel so I had a matching front classic hub. Since I've gotten the classic wheelset back, I haven't had any issues.

    I think there's a definite issue with the design of the Vesper hub for heavy/ strong riders who ride steep technical terrain with low gearing. Smaller riders who don't put as much torque through the hub would probably never have the issue. Perhaps Onyx has fixed the issue by now.

    I will say that Onyx was 100% awesome through all of this and were always ready to answer my questions and resolve the issue. when I said I was done with the Vesper and wanted a classic, they didn't hesitate at all and they paid all the shipping back and forth.

    I was a little frustrated at times because It basically took 2 months to get this all resolved but I have other wheels and other bikes so I was still able to ride through it all. It wasn't worth getting upset about and Onyx' customer service was always great. I absolutely love the classic hubs and wouldn't hesitate to buy them again. Hopefully they get the issues with the Vesper figured out and it doesn't tarnish their reputation too much.

    I think one of the issues with the vesper is that it's using a smaller sprag setup than the classic to save weight. It's effectively "1.5" clutches instead of the 2 in the classic (one of the ones in the vesper is narrower). That means it can't transfer as much torque as the classic without slipping. FWIW, they are recommending the classic hub for DH and E-Bikes because it's stronger. I think the vesper may just not have enough torque transfer capability for strong/ heavy riders + low gearing + steep climbs.

  31. #231
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    Any more rider updates on Vespers ?

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    i am also watching this thread and interested. it seems as if the people that are really having issues have destroyed other hubs in the past.

  33. #233
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    I haven't had an issue on my Vesper.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jdkobe View Post
    Any more rider updates on Vespers ?
    I recently had a wheel set built by Fanatik with the vespers. They just came a couple of weeks ago and I've had zero issues with them so far, but I've only ridden on them for 4 hours (2 rides). I've not had any slippage, but I'm a pretty light guy: 5'9", 140 pounds. I have gained 7 pounds over the off season so I'm at my heaviest right now. The Vesper's do have instant engagement, as advertised, although I was already running Bontrager 54T Rapid Drive with the 108T upgrade which I believe was 3.5 degrees of engagement so there wasn't a huge difference for me. Even with the 108T upgrade on the Bontrager hub I would still occasionally hear the pawls engaging, most likely because they would happen to be at their peak distance from engagement when I began pedaling. Obviously, you don't get that at all with the Vesper's.

    I'm fortunate that I have not encountered the slippage the a couple of others have. Hopefully it stays that way. It could be that I'm not heavy enough? I have not tried putting all my weight and pushing down with force on one pedal while holding the front brake and I don't think I'm going to. But I have done that without holding the front brake while on pavement and there was zero slippage.

    I wish I could give an A/B comparison between the Bontrager 108T Rapid Drive hubs and the Vesper's but I last rode my old hubs in November 2019 and took the Vesper's out for the first time last week (March 2020). I am way out of shape after having not ridden for the past 4 months so I couldn't climb as hard as I used to be able to, nor ride as long. With that said, I have a lot of miles on my old hubs so I know what they feel like and the Vesper's performed great. I'll be honest - I really didn't notice a difference on the climbs, nor did I expect to. They did exactly what they were supposed to do. What I did notice was the peace and quiet of not hearing the pawls. It's so nice just hearing the tires on the trail. You start to notice other things, like cables rubbing together or a leaf getting stuck between your tire and fork haha. For me, the Vesper's were worth every penny.

    I just remembered that someone had posted a video not too long ago about how their Vesper hub didn't free spin as freely as their old hub. Mine didn't either, but it's not a drastic difference. Maybe they need to break in?

    I'll definitely post again once I have put a couple of months on them to give an update. If something bad goes down I'll post earlier than that.

    Here's a quick video if anyone cares. That slight noise you hear is the rotor rubbing against the pad - I need to adjust the caliper a touch.

    https://youtu.be/e3re_Xh-LRM

  35. #235
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    Hope they get the reported issues settled.

    As a weight weenie, I totally dismissed the onyx hubs...but with the new vespers dropping some weight, I think the one use I MIGHT be able to justify them is for a new SS build - simple, silent (er...light?) - esp. paired with some Berd spokes.

    At 140lbs and 53yrs I don't generate a lot of torque, and as a finesse rider of long experience, I rarely break parts or encounter issues that riders pushing the limits do, so I imagine I'd be safe with the new vespers...but this thread certainly makes me wonder.
    Riding: '91 Carbon Epic Stumpjumper w/a rack on the back

  36. #236
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    Quote Originally Posted by jdkobe View Post
    Any more rider updates on Vespers ?
    Mine are holding strong after one (or has it been two already) seasons. I haven't ridden gingerly either.

  37. #237
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    Dusty at Hubsessed recently built me up a Vesper wheelset. I have about 100 miles on the hubs with no problems. They have performed great with better freespin and (obviously) quicker engagement than my Hadley hubs.

    I am about 180 lbs and love climbing. The bike is a Knolly Fugitive LT which is a climbing beast.

  38. #238
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    This doesnt look good! I am battling between a vesper or hydra build on Nobl tr37s and really love the idea of low drag and silence. Seems like they are having real issues with high torque situations. At 190lbs and all my riding being high torque big up moves. I think I need to go with the hydra. Im bummed about the issues. Seemed like a dream hub. I will say I have pedaled the hydra and it has a soft feel too but I believe it because I have low engagement hubs and with the hydras there is no clunk.

  39. #239
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    I've got 20 lbs on you buck naked with a 50 tooth cassette and like rocky techy climbs and I've had no issues.

  40. #240
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    Quote Originally Posted by hartmtb View Post
    This doesnt look good! I am battling between a vesper or hydra build on Nobl tr37s and really love the idea of low drag and silence. Seems like they are having real issues with high torque situations. At 190lbs and all my riding being high torque big up moves. I think I need to go with the hydra. Im bummed about the issues. Seemed like a dream hub. I will say I have pedaled the hydra and it has a soft feel too but I believe it because I have low engagement hubs and with the hydras there is no clunk.
    FWIW, I ride with a strong experienced rider who has been riding Vespers for a few months. He loves them. BUT, he's commented repeatedly that he's felt slippage under max torque situations in gear 50 (Eagle). He weighs 165 lbs

    I have Hydras and really dig them. Coming from years on I-9 Torch and King hubs, they sound very quiet to me and the engagement is quick enough to be, practically, instantaneous. But, no, they are not Onyx quiet or quick.

  41. #241
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    Quote Originally Posted by hartmtb View Post
    This doesnt look good! I am battling between a vesper or hydra build on Nobl tr37s and really love the idea of low drag and silence. Seems like they are having real issues with high torque situations. At 190lbs and all my riding being high torque big up moves. I think I need to go with the hydra. Im bummed about the issues. Seemed like a dream hub. I will say I have pedaled the hydra and it has a soft feel too but I believe it because I have low engagement hubs and with the hydras there is no clunk.
    Interested in the tr37's as well but, I can't seem to find any reviews.

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  42. #242
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ineedmorecowbell View Post
    Interested in the tr37's as well but, I can't seem to find any reviews.

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    I got TR37 rims from Nobl, currently building them up on Hydras as a lockdown project. No rides yet but they appear beautifully made, look cool with the slight ripple to the surface, are advertised weights, have a nice offset and alternating spoke hole directional drilling. Will report once I've ridden them but I expect that to be pretty boring (they go round and round.) Definitely no regrets on the purchase.

  43. #243
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrewBird View Post
    I got TR37 rims from Nobl, currently building them up on Hydras as a lockdown project. No rides yet but they appear beautifully made, look cool with the slight ripple to the surface, are advertised weights, have a nice offset and alternating spoke hole directional drilling. Will report once I've ridden them but I expect that to be pretty boring (they go round and round.) Definitely no regrets on the purchase.
    Do these have a different build spec? Are these the rims built to mimic the cb synthesis?

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  44. #244
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    They are front and rear specific rims. The rear has an extra layup for stiffness and durability. The front is made to be more compliant. The front is also wider to accommodate a wider front tire.

  45. #245
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    Quote Originally Posted by hartmtb View Post
    They are front and rear specific rims. The rear has an extra layup for stiffness and durability. The front is made to be more compliant. The front is also wider to accommodate a wider front tire.
    Do you have any time on these?

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  46. #246
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    No Im still in the hub choice game. Cant decide between onyx, i9, or dt240s. Leaning towards i9 because of all the trouble people having with the vesper.

  47. #247
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    There's a new 240 EXP just been released if you want to confuse things further.

  48. #248
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    Thats what has me considering 240. But Not sure how much I believe that you get excessive pedal kickback from hubs with high engagement. I have 10 degree hubs right now and they are slow to engagement and can be clunky. Anyone ever feel this on onyx or hydras?

  49. #249
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    Quote Originally Posted by hartmtb View Post
    Thats what has me considering 240. But Not sure how much I believe that you get excessive pedal kickback from hubs with high engagement. I have 10 degree hubs right now and they are slow to engagement and can be clunky. Anyone ever feel this on onyx or hydras?
    This video does a great job of explaining scenarios of when you might feel pedal kickback. Worth the watch.

    https://www.pinkbike.com/news/video-...t-a-chain.html

  50. #250
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    I feel kickback during slow tech climbing but I kinda like it. Instead of the suspension compressing freely, it pushes against my feet and facilitates forward motion. Did I just post the first pro-kickback post in history?

  51. #251
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    Quote Originally Posted by hartmtb View Post
    Thats what has me considering 240. But Not sure how much I believe that you get excessive pedal kickback from hubs with high engagement. I have 10 degree hubs right now and they are slow to engagement and can be clunky. Anyone ever feel this on onyx or hydras?
    Wouldn't that have more to do with your suspension design rather than the hubs?

    When I get on my older bike without Onyx hubs the free play in the ratchet now is super noticeable and annoying.

  52. #252
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nat View Post
    Do you mean like this? Mine fell apart too.

    Attachment 1263059
    Like several others my vesper driver just falls off with the smallest amount of pressure. When the cassette is mounted it basically falls off if you lean the wheel over a little. Anyway, Onyx was nice enough to send me a new axle and end caps. The non drive side end cap now has a tiny axle bolt that you can use to tighten up the end cap against the axle. Ive got to lean the wheel over further now to get the driver/cassette to fall off but it still falls off.

  53. #253
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    Quote Originally Posted by noosa2 View Post
    Like several others my vesper driver just falls off with the smallest amount of pressure. When the cassette is mounted it basically falls off if you lean the wheel over a little. Anyway, Onyx was nice enough to send me a new axle and end caps. The non drive side end cap now has a tiny axle bolt that you can use to tighten up the end cap against the axle. Ive got to lean the wheel over further now to get the driver/cassette to fall off but it still falls off.
    Interesting. Perhaps they'll send me one too.

  54. #254
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    What is the spacer for?

    Just received my wheels with Vesper hubs and in the box was a spacer and a small black plastic piece. No instructions were included so Im not sure if the washer/spacer is needed. My cassette is a SRAM 1x12 Eagle.


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  55. #255
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark K View Post
    What is the spacer for?

    Just received my wheels with Vesper hubs and in the box was a spacer and a small black plastic piece. No instructions were included so Im not sure if the washer/spacer is needed. My cassette is a SRAM 1x12 Eagle.


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    Was it an O-ring on the cassette driver? If so, remove it. It was just for shipping or something like that. See post #83 in this thread. Does it sound like the same thing you have?

    If that's not it then post a pic.

  56. #256
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    Spacer is for all MTB cassettes. You remove it if you're running a road cassette. That's at least how my XD driver is done. They only made an XD-R driver and you need to space out MTB cassettes.

  57. #257
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    Any Onyx Vesper users yet? Reviews?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nat View Post
    Was it an O-ring on the cassette driver? If so, remove it. It was just for shipping or something like that. See post #83 in this thread. Does it sound like the same thing you have?

    If that's not it then post a pic.
    No O-ring on the driver. Just an envelope containing the spacer.

    I found post #83 but did not notice an o-ring on the driver.

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  58. #258
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    The washer is for 10 speed casettes.
    I used to be indecisive. Now I'm not so sure.

  59. #259
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    Any more slippage reports on the vesper? I am building a set of wheels and want to go onyx. I am on 12sp shimano so I need microspline and as far as I know the classics do not offer that option.
    Get a bicycle. You will certainly not regret it, if you live. --Mark Twain

  60. #260
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    I'm 160lbs and sprinted out of the saddle up some pretty steep grades yesterday. No slippage. In fact I ordered another set of hubs.

  61. #261
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    I should have put I am always between 220 and 230 lbs (or more depending on what I am carrying). I seem to be pretty easy on wheels, been riding the same dt240's for past 10 years. However slippage would suck, especially when laying out good money.

    Thanks for your comments
    Get a bicycle. You will certainly not regret it, if you live. --Mark Twain

  62. #262
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    I'm 200 lbs and I've tried to get mine to slip, but couldn't. You can always get the classic Onyx hubs with larger Sprags.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dduk View Post
    I'm 200 lbs and I've tried to get mine to slip, but couldn't. You can always get the classic Onyx hubs with larger Sprags.
    I considered that but I don't think they have microspline yet. I guess I need to call them Monday to see ETA, if they will give it.
    Get a bicycle. You will certainly not regret it, if you live. --Mark Twain

  64. #264
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    I heard only the first batch of the Vesper's slipped and the problem has been fixed.
    I used to be indecisive. Now I'm not so sure.

  65. #265
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    Now that I have installed the new axle and end caps on my vesper it has side to side play. My classic onyx hub has a cinch collar that you can use to adjust the preload and remove the play but the vesper does it have the same collar. How do I remove the side to side play on the vesper?

  66. #266
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    Have you got the end cap fully located? There shouldn't be any play unless the bearings are warn. Is this with the wheel in, or out of the frame?

  67. #267
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    Quote Originally Posted by onzadog View Post
    Have you got the end cap fully located? There shouldn't be any play unless the bearings are warn. Is this with the wheel in, or out of the frame?
    Wheel in the frame. Im not sure about getting the end caps fully located...Ive messed around with trying to get them to seat (like a nice solid click or something) but neither the original ones or these replacement ones that Onyx sent seem to really snap in or fully seat anywhere.

  68. #268
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    Quote Originally Posted by onzadog View Post
    Have you got the end cap fully located? There shouldn't be any play unless the bearings are warn. Is this with the wheel in, or out of the frame?
    I pulled the new axle and end caps and compared them to the old ones. The new non drive side end cap that came with a grub screw (which I thought was a great idea) is several mm shorter than the old one (and a totally different shape). Anyway,I put the old non drive side end cap back on and while the cassette/driver assembly now easily falls off again I have no side to side play.

  69. #269
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeerCan View Post
    I considered that but I don't think they have microspline yet. I guess I need to call them Monday to see ETA, if they will give it.
    They finally got their MicroSpline license from Shimano, Classic hub conversion kits are in production and will be shipping very soon. There should be an option to order them that way as soon as they get all the people waiting for kits taken care of.

  70. #270
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velodonata View Post
    They finally got their MicroSpline license from Shimano, Classic hub conversion kits are in production and will be shipping very soon. There should be an option to order them that way as soon as they get all the people waiting for kits taken care of.
    yeah I think my wheelbuilder was able to order the classics with microspline. At least they have not contacted me with any issues related to the order.
    Get a bicycle. You will certainly not regret it, if you live. --Mark Twain

  71. #271
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    Need to get some wheels built and was torn between the Vespers and the Chris Kings. I'll keep an eye on this thread. With a new baby and precious time to ride, I can't be futzing around with hub warranty issues. The only thing I like about the Onyx hubs is the lack of sound. That is appealing, though I find CK pleasing enough. Still, I would like to try some seriously quiet hubs.

  72. #272
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flyer View Post
    Need to get some wheels built and was torn between the Vespers and the Chris Kings. I'll keep an eye on this thread. With a new baby and precious time to ride, I can't be futzing around with hub warranty issues. The only thing I like about the Onyx hubs is the lack of sound. That is appealing, though I find CK pleasing enough. Still, I would like to try some seriously quiet hubs.
    I switched from riding Kings for over 15 years to now riding the Vesper. Absolutely love them. Silent hubs are awesome. If I didn't go Vesper then I would probably go P321.

  73. #273
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    Yeah, I get it. That is the only reason I started looking at them...the lack of noise. With these new Vespers, I think I will wait bit to have a wheelset built up. Like I said, I have no time to mess around with unlacing hubs or finding a box and shipping wheels back to Onyx. The originals are a bit too heavy or I'd get those.

  74. #274
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    Anyone had any trouble mounting on the xd driver? I have a TRS+ cassette and I cannot get it to go on the vesper I just laced. After futzing about for a bit I verified the cassette fits on a race face hub and hope driver. It is driving me a bit bonkers after it took so long to get all the pieces and build the wheels. I emailed Dan, but it is Saturday and I don't expect anything from him for a while so I thought I would ask here.

  75. #275
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flyer View Post
    Yeah, I get it. That is the only reason I started looking at them...the lack of noise. With these new Vespers, I think I will wait bit to have a wheelset built up. Like I said, I have no time to mess around with unlacing hubs or finding a box and shipping wheels back to Onyx. The originals are a bit too heavy or I'd get those.
    You can opt for the aluminum freehub body. The stainless steel one is what makes it heavy.

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  76. #276
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    It's disconcerting to read about some of the QC/slippage issues on some of the Vespers. I've called into Onyx a few times to ask some questions about a potential wheel set utilizing their hubs, and the guys on the phone are very patient and informative. But every time I discuss their hubs I feel like I'm being steered by them towards the classic hubs instead of Vesper. Maybe they really are having issues with the new design in the Vesper?

  77. #277
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lou Sashole View Post
    ...I feel like I'm being steered by them towards the classic hubs instead of Vesper. Maybe they really are having issues with the new design in the Vesper?
    How are you describing your riding style to them? Are you a heavy and/or powerful rider? My impression is that there have definitely been some issues, and that there is a ceiling with the Vespers to what they can handle without the potential for some slipping compared to the classic hubs, which seem to be adequate for just about anything. 1.5 sprag clutches versus 2 seems to give up all the extra torque handling ability that makes the classics seem bulletproof.

    I would assume they are limited by what is manufactured since they probably don't buy enough to request custom sizing from the Sprag manufacturer, but there is probably a sweet spot in there where a wider single clutch could fall safely in between the capacity of the Vesper and Classic and maybe still be weight competitive with the Vesper.

    I'm a big guy and sticking with the Classics, but if I were building a set for a lighter rider I wouldn't have a problem going with the Vespers.

  78. #278
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lou Sashole View Post
    It's disconcerting to read about some of the QC/slippage issues on some of the Vespers. I've called into Onyx a few times to ask some questions about a potential wheel set utilizing their hubs, and the guys on the phone are very patient and informative. But every time I discuss their hubs I feel like I'm being steered by them towards the classic hubs instead of Vesper. Maybe they really are having issues with the new design in the Vesper?
    I built up a set for a 220lb dude who has a tendency to mash vs spin his way up climbs. Also, Ive done my share of trials moves including pedal kicks on that bike, with no issues. No slippage on that set at least.

  79. #279
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    Does the vesper use DT swiss free hub body for microspline compatibility?

  80. #280
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    Quote Originally Posted by n1cholasj View Post
    Does the vesper use DT swiss free hub body for microspline compatibility?
    They used to, but they now have a Shimano MicroSpline license and have started producing their own.

  81. #281
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    Quote Originally Posted by sxotty View Post
    Anyone had any trouble mounting on the xd driver? I have a TRS+ cassette and I cannot get it to go on the vesper I just laced. After futzing about for a bit I verified the cassette fits on a race face hub and hope driver. It is driving me a bit bonkers after it took so long to get all the pieces and build the wheels. I emailed Dan, but it is Saturday and I don't expect anything from him for a while so I thought I would ask here.
    I had a hard time mounting an X01 Eagle cassette until I realized the inner spinny part (science) was stuck. Got that unstuck and everything lined up and installed easily.

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