70-110 km daily/ loaded paniers / China/ need strongest/durable wheelset recomendatio- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    70-110 km daily/ loaded paniers / China/ need strongest/durable wheelset recomendatio

    Hi!

    I just have to say I love riding my bike. I have a 2009 Gary Fisher Cobia 29, and have ridden nearly 10,000km since buying it.


    1) I am running 700Cx38 Schwalbe Marathon Plus tires constantly inflated to 6 bar.... I love the tires I have only gotten one flat in 5000 m on them with lots of thread left. When I wear these down I may go with the 29 inch version if they add more durability and protection for the wheelset against broken spokes and keeping the rim in true. I know as the tire diameter increases on the bike the weight it supports increases... just a thought.. I just want wheels that never break spokes or need trued...

    2) I am a teacher living in china for a decade now.... and I use my bike to commute daily 70-110 km, with a day off a week sometimes.


    3) Ive lost a lot of weight, but am still 5'6 and 75 kg if it matters. I have always loaded deuter panier bags on a topeak tourist dx rack if it matters. My bike is not light, but hey I just went from 92 kilograms to 75 kg in 2.5 months so I really care little about the weight of what is on my bike... I know I need to get to at least 65 kg or less... hopefully withing next two months I can be.

    4) I dont care about the weight. I want things that are strong and durable.

    5) I dont want to buy something that is proprietary and cant be serviced easily... like the crank bros cobalt 29...... I know that no one ever breaks their spokes on them I hear... btu I have learned in China every single thing I have breaks. I am in strange places all the time in this country and havign a broken spoke int he middle of the night commuting somewhere sucks. If you brok spokes on that I would be stuck in hell here as the spokes cant be changed. I have even had other commuters hit my bike once on the way to work breaking two spokes and ****ing me up. I am on a tight schedule and teach like a sweatshop worker. I have strange jobs teaching and the advantage as I take peices of jobs that no one can get jsut because I am able to go from point a to point b like no one else in this city. You couldnt get there in a car, bus , or subway.. but I can on my bike... but when my wheels are ****ed up I mess up many jobs at once... 3 or 4 different jobs in one day... I have little time every week or two to replace spokes and true rims and ride around cared as hell I am going to hit a rut or anything that will break the spokes or screw up the true...

    6) If there is a pre built wheel solution, please tell me. I need to look at what I can get in China. I cant afford huge shipping and import taxes in China.... and I dont want to wait 3 months to get wheels.I can get some things, but I need to find out from mtbr what to look for to see what my options are as far as what I can actually get here from my bike people over here.

    7) if someone can tell me the best spoke/rim/nibble hub (Does the hub even matter?) combo, I know a guy that I would trust to build the wheelset.


    Basically , I need something that is
    a) 29 inch
    b)durable as hel
    c)strong as an ox
    d) able to take the burden of my fat ass and loaded bags and merciless riding
    e) if and when a spoke ever gets broken, I am able to get a replacement spoke and install it
    f) would be nice if I dont have to sell any of my children to buy it...
    g) I use my bike like some people use their I dont know what. It is a part of me and I absolutely feed my family with it. IT is a neccesity I fix this issue. ITs not like I am looking for a seat with titanium seat rails or something.

    Maybe I can send a picture of my bike soon... I dont think it matters much.. (except you know how everyone on this forum including my self feels that good feeling just seing a icture of a bike)


    Thanks for your opinion. I value mtbr.com

    ALso, I forgot to mention, I often pull a trailer with my two -three children in it in my spare time. They are 1,3, and 8.... I am pulling the 8 year old less often, but still throw him in there whenever I can. They weigh the average for what kids weigh at that age.

  2. #2
    transmitter~receiver
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    Quote Originally Posted by AntiNSA View Post
    1) I am running 700Cx38 Schwalbe Marathon Plus tires constantly inflated to 6 bar.... I love the tires I have only gotten one flat in 5000 m on them with lots of thread left. When I wear these down I may go with the 29 inch version if they add more durability and protection for the wheelset against broken spokes and keeping the rim in true. I know as the tire diameter increases on the bike the weight it supports increases... just a thought.. I just want wheels that never break spokes or need trued...
    If you get much bigger than 700Cx38, you need to be aware of pressure limitations in rims. No rim I know of will take a 50mm tire at 6 bar. The bigger the tire, the more the stress on the rim at high pressure.
    Quote Originally Posted by AntiNSA View Post
    3) Ive lost a lot of weight, but am still 5'6 and 75 kg if it matters. I have always loaded deuter panier bags on a topeak tourist dx rack if it matters. My bike is not light, but hey I just went from 92 kilograms to 75 kg in 2.5 months so I really care little about the weight of what is on my bike... I know I need to get to at least 65 kg or less... hopefully withing next two months I can be.
    You're not that heavy, but that's only one factor. You haven't said how much load you haul. In any case, there are wheels that can handle what you've got.
    Quote Originally Posted by AntiNSA View Post
    4) I dont care about the weight. I want things that are strong and durable.
    Easy enough: DT Swiss Comp spokes (2.0/1.8) and brass nipples. 36 spokes.
    Quote Originally Posted by AntiNSA View Post
    6) If there is a pre built wheel solution, please tell me. I need to look at what I can get in China. I cant afford huge shipping and import taxes in China.... and I dont want to wait 3 months to get wheels.I can get some things, but I need to find out from mtbr what to look for to see what my options are as far as what I can actually get here from my bike people over here.
    That's gotta be on you or someone else in China to work on... can't help there.
    Quote Originally Posted by AntiNSA View Post
    7) if someone can tell me the best spoke/rim/nibble hub (Does the hub even matter?) combo, I know a guy that I would trust to build the wheelset.
    Your limitation of available in China kind of throws a wrench in things, as I don't know what is available in China.
    DT Swiss, Hadley or Chris King hubs
    The Mavic A119 is actually a pretty tough rim that is also inexpensive. The Alex DM18 or Adventurer are cost-conscious contenders as well. There are a ton of options that will work for you. I'd stick with a double-walled rim with eyelets.
    Quote Originally Posted by AntiNSA View Post
    ALso, I forgot to mention, I often pull a trailer with my two -three children in it in my spare time. They are 1,3, and 8.... I am pulling the 8 year old less often, but still throw him in there whenever I can. They weigh the average for what kids weigh at that age.
    Bike trailers don't typically have a lot of tongue weight, so I'd worry more about the hub engagement mechanism than the rim with that one. Again... I don't know what's available to you. All three hubs I recommended have strong & reliable engagement.
    Quote Originally Posted by pvd
    Time to stop believing the hype and start doing some science.
    29er Tire Weight Database

  3. #3
    ballbuster
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    I might suggest Shimano hubs. I'll bet you can get replacement parts for those anywhere.

  4. #4
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    You can't beat Chris King hubs for durability, though maybe servicing will be an issue. Were it me, I'd go with King hubs, 32 or 36 conventional spokes and Mavic TN719 rims.

  5. #5
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    Shimano XT hubs are durable and serviceable, simple cup and cone,well sealed. Mavic 719, 36 hole rims are very dependable, and DT Alpine or Champion spokes, with DT Prolock nipples make a bomb proof wheel. Don't forget the Prolocks, they contribute to a strong and true build and wont seize. Cheers.

  6. #6
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    You don't need anything exotic, you just need a good wheelbuild. The machine-built wheels that came on your bike from the factory probably never had really good even, tight tension. Once you start breaking spokes, it probably isn't going to stop.

    So, first thing- the guy your going to have build the wheels is an experienced builder, right? Buy the guy a couple of big beers so he spends some extra time and care on your wheelset, why not.

    Pretty much everything else is secondary.

    Spokes. Use 36 spokes per wheel, if you can get hubs in 36 spoke. 40+ is stronger, but much harder to source. 32 will do OK if 36 is hard to source. Use butted spokes. They build stronger wheels than straight gauge. DT and Wheelsmith are both fine. Or Sapim. Brass nipples. And make sure you get extra spokes in each of the sizes required. The chances are, you'll never need them, but if you throw a chain badly, or somebody runs into you again, you'll have them ready to fix things.

    Hubs. If your existing hubs haven't given you any trouble and they still run smoothly, you can use 'em. You'll be limited to 32 spokes, but you should still be able to get a very durable build. If your hubs have given you trouble or they're grindy or beat for whatever reason, Shimano hubs are widely available and quite durable. Some people manage to muck up the freehub mechanism, but at your weight and for your conditions, that shouldn't be a problem. Maybe someone else can chime in here about the newer Shimano hubs that have smaller than 1/4" bearing balls in the back. My only experience is with older Shimano XT hubs that use 1/4" balls. I'm still riding the first one I got on my first mountain bike in 1992. I'm running it on my commuter bike. It skips just a hair from time to time in sub-zero weather, but I ran the thing for over twelve years before it even did that! At any rate, the hub has very little to do with wheel strength, and Shimano hubs are easy to get and easy to work on. Just make sure you or your guy crack them open when you get them- make sure there is enough grease and that the bearings are adjusted properly. Do this and you're good to go for a long time. I've got XT hubs on all three of my bikes, and go from 2 to 4 years between replacing the bearings. And I don't replace the bearings due to problems, but rather as preventative maintenance. The hubs are from 1991, 2002, and 2003, so I've had good luck with XT hubs, at any rate. Going up the food chain on hubs, you could go for King or Hadley or Phil Wood. But, you're talking lots and lots more money. Could well be worth it if you go through freewheel mechanisms. Otherwise, I wonder. But I have no direct experience. Could be the cat's meow. Depends on your budget.

    Rims. Go for wide or wide-ish strong rims and you should be OK. The rims I have experience with are not disc-specific, but they've gone through a heck of a lot of rough terrain without complaint: Sun CR-18, Mavic A719. You might look into Sun Rhyno Lite (are the still made?), or Mavic TN719. Mavic's dumb website doesn't indicate whether or not that rim is available in 36 hole, but if it is and you can get them, that'd be a good way to go. Anyway, like the other good folks said- go double-wall with eyelets in a name brand and some good heft to it, and you won't go wrong.

    Tires. Glad you've had good luck with the Schwalbe tires. 6 bar is a fair bit of pressure- that's what, 85 psi? I weigh more than you do now (83 kilos), and even my road bike with 30mm wide tires only gets a hair over 5 bar. What you might want to do is to lower the pressure a tad on your existing tires, and then when you eventually wear them out, get a wider set.. either same type or the Big Apples or whatnot, and explore the world of lower pressure. On my commuter bike, I've got 36mm (actual width) tires, so probably just about the same size as yours. I pull a trailer sometimes, do loaded touring, and general city riding. I put in around 3.5 bar in the front (50psi) and a little over 4 bar in the rear (60psi). What pressure you needed to avoid pinch flats when you weighed more is not the same pressure now that you're quite a bit more svelte!
    Hope this helps.

  7. #7
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    XT Hubs - 36 spokes front and rear (DT Swiss - straight gauge - get some extras) and Mavic EX 721 rims. Make sure they are built up and then shipped to you.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by meltingfeather View Post
    If you get much bigger than 700Cx38, you need to be aware of pressure limitations in rims. No rim I know of will take a 50mm tire at 6 bar. The bigger the tire, the more the stress on the rim at high pressure.
    I know that the larger size schwalbe does not allow as high pressure as the 700x38c… So I think I may stick to that is my max size high pressure tire

    Quote Originally Posted by meltingfeather View Post
    You're not that heavy, but that's only one factor. You haven't said how much load you haul. In any case, there are wheels that can handle what you've got.
    I sometimes carry 2-4 reems of A4 paper, and various gear filling my deuter bags. As far as the high pressure, the reason I like to ride at bar is the noticeable reduction in rolling resistance. I can keep a 4+ kmph faster advantage with 6 bar over say 5 bar. Even 5.5 bar is noticeable. I know that the high pressure Is better for the high weight too...

    Quote Originally Posted by meltingfeather View Post
    Easy enough: DT Swiss Comp spokes (2.0/1.8) and brass nipples. 36 spokes.
    It seems like DT Swiss comp spokes 2.0 and brass nipples receive the most votes… they are on the list or things to get

    Quote Originally Posted by meltingfeather View Post
    That's gotta be on you or someone else in China to work on... can't help there.

    Your limitation of available in China kind of throws a wrench in things, as I don't know what is available in China.
    I will be building up an availability list right after I try to get the idea of what the best reccomendations are….

    Quote Originally Posted by meltingfeather View Post
    DT Swiss, Hadley or Chris King hubs
    I have heard Shimano XT hubs are also good… but doing the best I can to find out what kind of 36 spoke hubs I can get

    Quote Originally Posted by meltingfeather View Post
    The Mavic A119 is actually a pretty tough rim that is also inexpensive. The Alex DM18 or Adventurer are cost-conscious contenders as well. There are a ton of options that will work for you. I'd stick with a double-walled rim with eyelets.
    This is proving to be a challenge… finding 36 spoke rims…. The tn719 is only 32… and I am going for the strongst possible so sticking to 36….

    Quote Originally Posted by meltingfeather View Post
    Bike trailers don't typically have a lot of tongue weight, so I'd worry more about the hub engagement mechanism than the rim with that one. Again... I don't know what's available to you. All three hubs I recommended have strong & reliable engagement.
    I have started reading about the multiple points of engagement… I am not sure how that benefits me…. But I really want a strong low maintenance… wheel with 36 spokes…..
    Thanks for your help…


    Its hard to find time to reply to the thread but I am going to try to reply to all posts with an update of my curent point in the process. A lot of great replies here….

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by pimpbot View Post
    I might suggest Shimano hubs. I'll bet you can get replacement parts for those anywhere.

    I have heard about m77 and m776 hubs in a post somewhere on here... I am trying to find out about the more points of engagement thing.. it seems in the review section xt hubs have good and bad reviews....


    Whichever I need to get a 36 spoke hub and think it might be easiest to get hear... Trying to find out my options now.... see what the dealers here can get...

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stroganof View Post
    You can't beat Chris King hubs for durability, though maybe servicing will be an issue. Were it me, I'd go with King hubs, 32 or 36 conventional spokes and Mavic TN719 rims.
    Durability is the issue. Price too... and availability. The TN719 rims seem cool but It seems they are only 32 spoke rims........

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by stoats View Post
    Shimano XT hubs are durable and serviceable, simple cup and cone,well sealed.
    I have heard some people say this too....

    Quote Originally Posted by stoats View Post
    Mavic 719, 36 hole rims are very dependable, and DT Alpine or Champion spokes, with DT Prolock nipples make a bomb proof wheel. Don't forget the Prolocks, they contribute to a strong and true build and wont seize. Cheers.
    I have so far found that the mavic 719 rims are only 32 and not 36?????

    I have not heard much about the alpine... whats the difference between them and the champion spokes?


    I have first heard abotu the prolocks. I want to find out more about these. Are these a brand of nipples or a special nipple design?

    Thanks for the help..

  12. #12
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    +1 on getting a wheelbuild. The parts are not going to matter- loaded touring is not hard on wheels at all (I've done tours of up to a couple thousand kilometers, toured with people who have done 30,000+ km) and the only time anyone's had to rework a wheel is if they've had a nasty accident. Check the touring section of bikeforums.net- lots of serious tourers there, and wheel componentry seems to be the least of their concerns.

    XT hubs for good seals, 36H so the wheel doesn't go too wobbly if a spoke goes. Any decent rim. If you can't find 36, then 32 should still be fine and not a deciding factor in hub or wheel choice. If you are worried about spokes breaking, just get the wheelbuilder to throw in a handful spare spokes so you don't have to track down the correct length spokes for a fix.

    Avoid proprietary parts, or any hubs that need special tools to work on them. No freakin' way are you going to find Hadley, CK or DT Swiss hub parts in China. And for the price of any replacement part + shipping from these companies, you could just buy an entire new XT hub anyway.

    Edited for typos.
    Last edited by womble; 09-28-2011 at 04:34 AM.
    Since when did the phrase "invest in" come to mean the same as "buy"?

  13. #13
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    It looks as though I am going to go with

    I think I am going with a mavic a719 . It will take me three weeks to get it, but its the only thing available. I was trying for the tn719, but I cant get it.


    So I am goint with a719, and dt comp spokes. I am not sure of the proper lengths to get.

    I am wondering if they will fit my shwalbe 700x38c ok........

    I am going to go for the xt hubs. It seems a difficult choice to decide betweent which hub model... I mean there are different versions of the xt hub... Im not clear what is the best yet.

    Prolock nipples and I will work on the spoke specifics asap. Thanks for everyones great help. Just went on a 300 km mini trip with kids and trailer and loaded bbags.... Broke 12 spokes at leaset on our kids trailer fully loaded with three kids. Thats next.......

    pics from our last ride to the ocean in china

  14. #14
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    Rather late to the thread but here's my input anyway.

    A few years back I bought a wheelset of Hope Pro II hubs, DT Swiss 2.0-1.8-2.0 double butted spokes, DT brass nipples & Magic XM 719 disc rims. Rode & raced those hard on my blur LT for nearly 3 years. They're now with me on my touring MTB and have done about 6000km around Europe with my 80kg body and 20kg or so of gear on the rack in the past few months. Faultless the entire time on both bikes.

    The XM719 is a 26" rim but I think the TN719 is the 29" equivalent.

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