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  1. #1
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    2.5WT or 2.6 Double Down Casing?

    I have managed to ruin two Exo casing Maxxis DFH tires on the back in the last month. I am pretty set on switching to a Double Down casing which doesn't appear to be an option in a 2.6 which is what came on the bike. I am fine going with a 2.5WT but it appears the only Double Down option in that size is an Aggressor (dual compound) or the DHF (Max Grip). I am a little hesitant about going Aggressor because I am worried it isn't going to be aggressive enough (ironic, I know...) and I am little hesitant about the DHF because I have heard that the Max Grip compound has a ton of resistance. Are those really my only options? I know Maxxis doesn't show all the available options on their site....
    I guess I should add that both tires were ruined at 19-21 PSI. Yes, I know running a higher pressure will help I am not really interested in having run overly high pressures and losing all the traction that wider tires provide. Ibis (my bike is a HD4) recommends air pressure to be 10% of rider weight with WT tires and their 34 mm ID rims. I am 190 ready to ride.
    Another option I am considering is cush core if anyone has any first hand experience with that???

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    So DHF and Aggressor are really the only double down casing options?

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    Don't they have a 2.5" High Roller DD? I had thought about buying one. Supposed to be a good back tire.

    I didn't like the Aggressor - too washy for me.
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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by TNTall View Post
    Don't they have a 2.5" High Roller DD? I had thought about buying one. Supposed to be a good back tire.

    I didn't like the Aggressor - too washy for me.
    That is unfortunate because I bought an Aggressor yesterday.

    I will double check on the High Roller but there seems to be lots of mediocre reviews on it compared to the DHRII and DHF.

  5. #5
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    Maxxis is about to come out with an EXO+ casing in their popular sizes. It's supposed to be between an EXO and DD casing in terms of strength and weight.

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    What prompted the post OP? One could surmise by what you wrote that you are looking at DD tires because perhaps the 2.6" Maxxis did not hold up well enough?

    If that is the case, then...

    The casings used in the 2.6" tires are rather thin, and that gives them their fast, grippy character. It also leads to their early demise on more rugged, higher speed trails. I like the tire but they just don't hold up when the going gets really rough, nor do they perform well at that "intensity".

    The casings used on the 2.5WT are a very different animal, as far as I can tell. They are a much more durable tire and hold up to, and perform better, on rugged higher speed trails.

    So, perhaps its not necessary to go to DD. Maybe just try the 2.5 WT, non-DD.

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    I ride a Minion DHR 2.4" WT Dual compound on a 36i rim, and it works great. You can get a little more pressure without it being bouncy. The tread is barely wide enough to usually protect the rim, but it does get some scratches.
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeremy3220 View Post
    Maxxis is about to come out with an EXO+ casing in their popular sizes. It's supposed to be between an EXO and DD casing in terms of strength and weight.
    Any word on a release date and size options???

    Quote Originally Posted by Miker J View Post
    What prompted the post OP? One could surmise by what you wrote that you are looking at DD tires because perhaps the 2.6" Maxxis did not hold up well enough?

    If that is the case, then...

    The casings used in the 2.6" tires are rather thin, and that gives them their fast, grippy character. It also leads to their early demise on more rugged, higher speed trails. I like the tire but they just don't hold up when the going gets really rough, nor do they perform well at that "intensity".

    The casings used on the 2.5WT are a very different animal, as far as I can tell. They are a much more durable tire and hold up to, and perform better, on rugged higher speed trails.

    So, perhaps its not necessary to go to DD. Maybe just try the 2.5 WT, non-DD.
    Yep, ruined 2 riding hard in the rocks. There are zero DD options in the 2.6 size so I am going to a 2.5WT Aggressor.

    Interesting that you say the 2.5WT Exo casings hold up better than the 2.6 Exo casings but after ruining 2 with less than 20 miles on them (5 mileso on the first one) I am not really willing to test your theory. LOL $150 on biclycle tires in month is not cool! I will take the 200 gram weight penalty.

    I just hope the Aggressor works okay compared to my DHF.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by TNTall View Post
    I ride a Minion DHR 2.4" WT Dual compound on a 36i rim, and it works great. You can get a little more pressure without it being bouncy. The tread is barely wide enough to usually protect the rim, but it does get some scratches.
    To get a DD casing in the DHR2 you have to go down to a 2.3 which is unfortunate. A 2.5WT DD DHR2 would be my first choice.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rynomx785 View Post
    To get a DD casing in the DHR2 you have to go down to a 2.3 which is unfortunate. A 2.5WT DD DHR2 would be my first choice.
    Yeah I probably would have bought a 2.4" DD if it had been available, but the Dual compound has held up great for me, and I'm 230 lb. It's no lightweight anyway at 955g. It sounds like you must be riding some harsher rocks than me though because my DHRs are lasting for hundreds of miles.

    The High Roller is a similar tread to the Minion. I still would like to try a DD HR2.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TNTall View Post
    Yeah I probably would have bought a 2.4" DD if it had been available, but the Dual compound has held up great for me, and I'm 230 lb. It's no lightweight anyway at 955g. It sounds like you must be riding some harsher rocks than me though because my DHRs are lasting for hundreds of miles.

    The High Roller is a similar tread to the Minion. I still would like to try a DD HR2.
    My 2.6 DHF Exo 3C comes in at 945 according to Maxxis. MikerJ may be onto something about the 2.6s being a weaker casing.

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    Actually my 2.6 is 925 grams....

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    Quote Originally Posted by rynomx785 View Post
    Any word on a release date and size options???
    Supposedly this month. I have my doubts though.

    Interesting that you say the 2.5WT Exo casings hold up better than the 2.6 Exo casings but after ruining 2 with less than 20 miles on them (5 mileso on the first one) I am not really willing to test your theory.
    He's right. The 2.5 is actually heavier than the 2.6 3C and uses the 60 TPI carcass vs the lighter 120TPI on the 2.6 3C. For aggressive riding go with the 2.3-2.5 sizes.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeremy3220 View Post
    Maxxis is about to come out with an EXO+ casing in their popular sizes. It's supposed to be between an EXO and DD casing in terms of strength and weight.
    Quote Originally Posted by jeremy3220 View Post
    Supposedly this month. I have my doubts though.



    He's right. The 2.5 is actually heavier than the 2.6 3C and uses the 60 TPI carcass vs the lighter 120TPI on the 2.6 3C. For aggressive riding go with the 2.3-2.5 sizes.
    Yeah, I have my doubts too. LOL And I needed something now.

    Strange decision on Maxxis' behalf there. Guess I will be going to a 2.5WT up front on the when it's time too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rynomx785 View Post

    Strange decision on Maxxis' behalf there.
    2.6 tires are borderline plus tires. Pro DH and enduro riders tend to run 2.3-2.5. I don't know of any running 2.6. For riding at higher speeds it makes more sense to have a stiffer casing and softer compound than to go slightly wider. 2.6 and up makes sense as high volume, low pressure tires for slow speed grip.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeremy3220 View Post
    2.6 tires are borderline plus tires. Pro DH and enduro riders tend to run 2.3-2.5. I don't know of any running 2.6. For riding at higher speeds it makes more sense to have a stiffer casing and softer compound than to go slightly wider. 2.6 and up makes sense as high volume, low pressure tires for slow speed grip.
    They seem to work really well though. If they had a tougher casing option, I don't see any advantage to less volume other than weight. Maybe the 2.5 Aggressor will change my perspective on that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rynomx785 View Post
    If they had a tougher casing option, I don't see any advantage to less volume other than weight.
    Stiffness. The higher the speed a vehicle is designed to operate at, the stiffer the tire needs to be. Think riding lawnmower vs sports car. Increasing the air volume relative to the casing weight eventually gives you a balloon. The main deficiency in trail tires is the lack of stiffness, not cornering grip.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jeremy3220 View Post
    Stiffness. The higher the speed a vehicle is designed to operate at, the stiffer the tire needs to be. Think riding lawnmower vs sports car. Increasing the air volume relative to the casing weight eventually gives you a balloon. The main deficiency in trail tires is the lack of stiffness, not cornering grip.
    I get it and I am not here to debate theory but, make the casing stiffer. I am willing to bet that if a tire manufacturers start making a 2.6 with a DH casing, you will start seeing more on DH bikes. Obviously a 2.6 Exo casing is insufficient but historically speaking MTB tires are moving that direction. You certainly can't run a tire that doesn't exist though so until someone makes it, it is purely speculation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rynomx785 View Post
    I get it and I am not here to debate theory but, make the casing stiffer. I am willing to bet that if a tire manufacturers start making a 2.6 with a DH casing, you will start seeing more on DH bikes. Obviously a 2.6 Exo casing is insufficient but historically speaking MTB tires are moving that direction. You certainly can't run a tire that doesn't exist though so until someone makes it, it is purely speculation.
    Considering Maxxis 27.5x2.5 downhill tires weigh 1300g - 1400g, I don't see many trail riders buying a 2.6" downhill tires unless trail conditions are really severe.
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  20. #20
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    They have made wider DH tires in the past. At least up to 2.8. I don't know that DH racing is moving the same direction casual riders are. Loic Bruni just won Worlds on 2.3s I believe.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TNTall View Post
    Considering Maxxis 27.5x2.5 downhill tires weigh 1300g - 1400g, I don't see many trail riders buying a 2.6" downhill tires unless trail conditions are really severe.
    I don't see any trail riders buying DH casing tires regardless of width and that was never my point. It would be nice to have 2.5 and 2.6 double down options. That was my whole reason for starting this thread. I was surprised that there were only 3 double down options in a 2.5WT.

    If they made a 2.6 DHR or DHF double down I would be running them.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeremy3220 View Post
    They have made wider DH tires in the past. At least up to 2.8. I don't know that DH racing is moving the same direction casual riders are. Loic Bruni just won Worlds on 2.3s I believe.
    Like I said, maybe going to 2.5 in back will change my tune. Keeping an open mind here. I have certainly been wrong before. lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by rynomx785 View Post
    My 2.6 DHF Exo 3C comes in at 945 according to Maxxis. MikerJ may be onto something about the 2.6s being a weaker casing.
    2.5 is heavier and stronger. Even in EXO

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    So my take on Maxxis 2.6 EXO tires is that the 120 TPI tires are thinner, lighter and less resilient than the 60 TPI tires. You can get 2.6 tires in 60 TPI that are DD. Personally I think you'll find the Maxxis WT EXO 2.5/2.4 tires with 60 TPI much more burly than the 2.6 EXO tires. I ran the Maxxis WT DHF & DHR2 EXO most of the summer with zero issues. I'm currently running the 2.6 DHF & Rekon to try them out. There is nothing aggressive about these 2.6 tires.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by voghan View Post
    You can get 2.6 tires in 60 TPI that are DD.
    Can you post a link to a 2.6 in DD?

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    None of those are double down casing. Just regular single ply EXO.

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    Yeah those are Dual compound which is probably the next best thing to DD for a rear.
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    Changing gears here....

    Anyone have any experience with both Maxx Grip and Maxx Terra? If so, is there a noticeable difference in grip?

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    Quote Originally Posted by rynomx785 View Post
    I don't see any trail riders buying DH casing tires regardless of width and that was never my point. It would be nice to have 2.5 and 2.6 double down options. That was my whole reason for starting this thread. I was surprised that there were only 3 double down options in a 2.5WT.

    If they made a 2.6 DHR or DHF double down I would be running them.

    I think going DD on the 2.6 would make the tire into something it isn't. Again, what gives the 2.6 its plush, grippy, fast rolling feel is the supple, thin casing. The tire is a different tool for a different job compared to a 2.5 WT. Making it a DD would likely make it a completely different tire, and would probably make it almost just like the 2.5 Maxxis DD tires - and there would be too much overlap. It's the tire's casing that gives it so much of it's riding characteristics. Not 1/10th of an inch or even its tread pattern.

    Right now it's probably not common to see riders feeling "under-tired" on 2.5 DD casing tires. If they are the next reasonable move would be to a DH casing. Going to a 2.6 DD, which as far as I know does not exist, would likely add very little.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miker J View Post
    I think going DD on the 2.6 would make the tire into something it isn't. Again, what gives the 2.6 its plush, grippy, fast rolling feel is the supple, thin casing. The tire is a different tool for a different job compared to a 2.5 WT. Making it a DD would likely make it a completely different tire, and would probably make it almost just like the 2.5 Maxxis DD tires - and there would be too much overlap. It's the tire's casing that gives it so much of it's riding characteristics. Not 1/10th of an inch or even its tread pattern.

    Right now it's probably not common to see riders feeling "under-tired" on 2.5 DD casing tires. If they are the next reasonable move would be to a DH casing. Going to a 2.6 DD, which as far as I know does not exist, would likely add very little.
    So why do you think they offer DD in both 2.4WT and 2.5WT?

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    Doesn't matter much I guess. Thanks everyone for the info. Hopefully the DD Aggressor works out well. If not, I guess I will give a 2.5WT EXO DHRII a go and hope it is tough enough to live.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rynomx785 View Post
    So why do you think they offer DD in both 2.4WT and 2.5WT?
    I don't believe they offer the same tire in both 2.4 and 2.5. The DHR2 doesn't come in 2.5.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jeremy3220 View Post
    I don't believe they offer the same tire in both 2.4 and 2.5. The DHR2 doesn't come in 2.5.
    You're right Jeremy. None the tires that are available in a 2.5WT come in a 2.4WT.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Miker J View Post
    It's the tire's casing that gives it so much of it's riding characteristics. Not 1/10th of an inch or even its tread pattern.
    And when cornering you're only riding on one side of cornering knobs so you're not even necessarily riding on an extra 1/10th of rubber. Like Miker J said, the main difference between the 2.5WT and 2.6 tires is design philosophy not width.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by rynomx785 View Post
    So why do you think they offer DD in both 2.4WT and 2.5WT?

    Here's why...

    As far as I know at least, DD is offered in the WT flavor. The DHF (and Aggressor, relatively new) is a 2.5 WT offered in DD and non-DD.

    The DHR2 WT is a 2.4" tire. Similar to the DH casing DHF/DHR2 they only offered that in a 2.5 for the DHF, and a 2.4 for the DHR2. The thought was, and often still is, you need more tire/grip up front, and could get away with less out back. So, that carried over to the non-DH casing WT tires.

    Make sense?

    https://www.maxxis.com/catalog/tire-...-minion-dhr-ii


    Look at the 275 tires - which I just assume we were talking about.


    As a side note, for DH use, the new Assegai, is amazing. The bead is now Kevlar which looses noticeable weight and the tire grips like mad. Probably too much for park riding but for old school DH gnar they are super. It also addressed the 2.5/2.4 issue. I was not a fan of running a smaller tire out back on my DH rig. In the past I swapped the DHR2 in a 2.4 to a DHF in a 2.5. More cush yes, but lost out big time in straight line braking. Anyway, with the Assegai DH, and just run it on both ends. If I had to nit pick, they only offered the DH Assegai in 3C Maxxgrip, and not my favorite front Super Tacky. Anyway, I only need one spare now.

    Now, back on topic...

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    LOL Yes, we are talking 27.5.

    I have heard that a trail version of the Assegai is coming. I am hoping in a 2.5WT. I was also hoping it would be available in a DD casing but now you guys have me wondering if it necessary. If get a 2.5WT Exo and ruin in it in the rocks I will be screaming your name at the sky. LOL

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    Miker J, how much pressure are you running in the 2.5WT and how much do you weigh?

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    Quote Originally Posted by rynomx785 View Post
    Miker J, how much pressure are you running in the 2.5WT and how much do you weigh?

    Regarding the Assegai, that is a really grippy tire. You'd have to be hitting some really nasty trails to require that much grip. At least in the DH version its super grippy, and therefore a slow roller.


    Geared up, around 185#.

    Probably about 22 front, 24 rear.

    Our trails are very slick, rocky, rooty off camber type stuff - at least where I'm riding lately. But, they are not super fast trails - not stuff that leads to many rim dings. Traction on the slick stuff is king, so I'm flirting with a bit lower psi. If I were riding out West in the drier fast stuff I'd be running higher psi.

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    2.6 EXO+ is available now in both the DHF and the DHR2. I switched to a 2.5WT MAXXGRIP DHF up front and a 2.5WT DC DD Aggressor shortly after starting this thread. I just ordered a 2.6 EXO+ DHR2 to try seeing as I still have an almost brand new 2.6 DHF EXO that I took off when I made the switch to 2.5s. Hopefully the Exo+ casing is enough to not have issues like I have in the past with the 2.6s.

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    OP, it sounds like you had some bad luck with the EXO casings. All I can add is that I ride DHF 2.5WT exo/TR front and Agressor 2.5WT/exo/TR rear on 30mm ID rims at around 22-24 psi rear and less in front (from what I can tell comparing gages). I'm over 190 lb geared up and these things have been bomb-proof in Phoenix over the last couple months. There are plenty of rocks on most of the trails I ride and many sections with angular and jagged embedded rocks strewn out over a distance of several yards to over 50 yards I'd guess. I've hit these sections repeatedly at speed enough times now that I don't give my tires a second thought anymore.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eatdrinkride View Post
    OP, it sounds like you had some bad luck with the EXO casings. All I can add is that I ride DHF 2.5WT exo/TR front and Agressor 2.5WT/exo/TR rear on 30mm ID rims at around 22-24 psi front and less in back (from what I can tell comparing gages). I'm over 190 lb geared up and these things have been bomb-proof in Phoenix over the last couple months. There are plenty of rocks on most of the trails I ride and many sections with angular and jagged embedded rocks strewn out over a distance of several yards to over 50 yards I'd guess. I've hit these sections repeatedly at speed enough times now that I don't give my tires a second thought anymore.
    I have been running almost the same setup for the last few months other than I went with a DD Aggressor in the back instead of EXO and I haven't had any more problems at all and have been pretty happy with the setup overall running 21-22 in in the front and 23-24 in the rear. I had a 15% off coupon to WWC though and I like trying different stuff so I will try the 2.6 EXO+ out and report back.

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