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  1. #1
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    197mm fatbike hub

    I need a new hup and am eying the DT Swiss big ride.
    Only downside is that it only has 18 PoE (20).

    All the hubs sold are with the 18 only. There are upgrade kits to 36 and 54, but no hubs that already come with 36 or 54. Am I missing something or where can one get DT Swiss hubs already with higher engagement installed? Ideally I don't pay for an 18 PoE and then throw away that 18 PoE ratchet.
    Or is buying 18 PoE hubs and later upgrading the only option?

    Second question, it seems all DT hubs can be upgraded to higher PoE. Is there a reason why the fatbike hub couldn't? i mean it is wider, so there may be an issue.

    Or would someone recommend a different hub? It seems DT Swiss are the only ones with star ratchet and i wouldn't want a pawl hub.

    (i have currently novatec hub, and yes, it needs replacement, so no more low quality stuff)
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  2. #2
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    The ratchets used on their MTB, road and fat bike hubs are all the same. You can swap and use them interchangeably. Internally, they are the same, aside from different quality and material bearings across hub levels.




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  3. #3
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    One thing to think about is the wide hub is prone to flex a lot more than skinny 142/148 hubs. This means that going with a very high POE count on the DT ratchet can mean improper tooth-alignment under power and in some rare situations, it can break the tooth and strip, it's happened to a few people, but I doubt you'd have issues with a 36, but I'd be a little wary of the 54. I use the DT350 fat hub and the Hope hubs. Honestly, the Hope has a couple things going for it over the DT, with the Hope, you can easily service the freehub bearing (along with the other bearings) and replace it. With the DT, it's all but impossible and lots of people have stripped out tools trying to do it (do some searches). It's likely it wouldn't need replacing for a few seasons at the least, but Hope stuff punches out easy, you put in a new bearing, and you are good to go. Hope has 40t POE and the loud buzzing is safer for hikers/bears in my area. And again, the DT 350 is a good hub, no argument there. The 240 stuff gets better bearings, in addition to more weight removed (I know, there's no "fat" 240), but the 350 is a solid choice.
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  4. #4
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    Don't turn your nose up at all pawl hubs because Novatecs are toys. I use and build wheels with Hope and Bike Hub Store (Bitex) and haven't had either fail.

    The DT Swiss 350's are great hubs though.
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYrr496 View Post
    Don't turn your nose up at all pawl hubs because Novatecs are toys. I use and build wheels with Hope and Bike Hub Store (Bitex) and haven't had either fail.

    The DT Swiss 350's are great hubs though.

    I ike the bitex engagement. I guess PoE of 36 or higher would be minimum. Cost of DT with shipping a bit under $200 plus any conversions.

    Are bitex usually futureproof to change driver for example? DT seems to be very good with that.

    I guess I'm open to good pawl hubs now. I weigh 180 lb and ride 1000 miles a year.
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  6. #6
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    A 197 Bitex hub is convertible to 190 quick release. The drivers are swappable between Shimano or Sram and they come with Enduro bearings. Can't beat the price.

    My friends and I all have em on a bunch of bikes with no problems.
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by HerrKaLeun View Post
    Or is buying 18 PoE hubs and later upgrading the only option?

    Correct.


    Quote Originally Posted by HerrKaLeun View Post
    Second question, it seems all DT hubs can be upgraded to higher PoE. Is there a reason why the fatbike hub couldn't? i mean it is wider, so there may be an issue.

    It can be converted, easily, to 36 or 54t.



    Quote Originally Posted by HerrKaLeun View Post
    Or would someone recommend a different hub? It seems DT Swiss are the only ones with star ratchet and i wouldn't want a pawl hub.

    Really hard to beat what the DT hub brings to the table. Best overall blend of light, durable, convertible, maintainable, and inexpensive.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    Correct.





    It can be converted, easily, to 36 or 54t.






    Really hard to beat what the DT hub brings to the table. Best overall blend of light, durable, convertible, maintainable, and inexpensive.
    Thanks, sound advice.

    What do you think of Bitex? Inc. Ratchet replacement for DT they cost only around half. I know I get what I pay for... but this is just my secondary bike.
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  9. #9
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    I could get the Hope Fatsno for around $220. it has 40 PoE.

    how is that for reliability, sevicability etc. in comparison to the DT?

    I think if I went with DT, I'd do the 36T ratchet upgrade at some time, so i need to figure in that cost. So the $190 DT Swiss hub will cost me ~$270 depending on how I can get an upgrade kit. I do like the center lock brake option, which doesn't seem available with some other brands.

    I know DT is the safe choice, but i feel a bit cheated by their policy to sell 18 PoE for an MTB hub that will require most people to upgrade.
    The 54T ratchet actually doesn't cost so much more than the 36T. I read here and there it is less reliable due to smaller teeth. Is that true, is 36T the better option for a fatbike?

    The Bitex would be around $160 with 54 PoE standard. I'm a bit concerned since they have very few sellers. so that may have limited parts in the future.

    Any other "good but reasonable" hubs I should look at? No need for bling, just solid engineering.
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by HerrKaLeun View Post
    I could get the Hope Fatsno for around $220. it has 40 PoE.

    how is that for reliability, sevicability etc. in comparison to the DT?

    I think if I went with DT, I'd do the 36T ratchet upgrade at some time, so i need to figure in that cost. So the $190 DT Swiss hub will cost me ~$270 depending on how I can get an upgrade kit. I do like the center lock brake option, which doesn't seem available with some other brands.

    I know DT is the safe choice, but i feel a bit cheated by their policy to sell 18 PoE for an MTB hub that will require most people to upgrade.
    The 54T ratchet actually doesn't cost so much more than the 36T. I read here and there it is less reliable due to smaller teeth. Is that true, is 36T the better option for a fatbike?

    The Bitex would be around $160 with 54 PoE standard. I'm a bit concerned since they have very few sellers. so that may have limited parts in the future.

    Any other "good but reasonable" hubs I should look at? No need for bling, just solid engineering.
    Well, the DT is a great hub, EXCEPT, servicing the freehub bearing is a nightmare. They usually run for a few seasons just fine, but if you do a search on this site about the freehub bearing, you'll see lots of people stripping out the tools and having to go to extreme lengths to remove the threaded ring-drive insert. On Hope hubs, this is dead simple and can be done with simple bearing tools. Their bearings punch out easy and are easy to replace. Both freehubs are easy to service in terms of new grease, both come off relatively the same. The DT drive mechanism is generally stronger IF you are going with the lower teeth counts. Going to the higher counts removes material behind the teeth and the advantage isn't going to be so clear (but you will have more engagement points) in terms of strength. The Hope mechanism is decent, nothing fancy.

    IME, the Hopes are solid hubs. Nothing too exotic, but they work well and come in colors.
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by HerrKaLeun View Post
    I know DT is the safe choice, but i feel a bit cheated by their policy to sell 18 PoE for an MTB hub that will require most people to upgrade.

    I'd like to add a bit of perspective here.

    DT sells tens of thousands of 350/Big Ride hubs every year. I'd wager that the vast majority of people (like 90%+) riding them don't know what engagement is -- have literally never heard the term in the context of bicycles -- and couldn't care less about it. They just ride their bikes.

    Then there are those of us who've been riding for literal decades, whom know exactly what engagement is, whom have access to any/every hub out there, and whom still choose to run the stock 350 hubs because they are the best overall blend of weight, durability, and price, and because engagement matters not one iota on the trail.

    Once you remove those groups from the equation you're left with a teeny, tiny, incredibly small number of riders for whom engagement is relevant. I'd put that number at ~5% of the total riding population. And DT has them covered, too, in that they can increase engagement for a few $, using a process that requires zero tools and takes 90 seconds to effect.

    So you can choose to feel cheated. Or you can realize that the demographic with which you strongly identify is not remotely large enough to tilt the vote. Despite that, you can still choose to increase engagement in a DT hub.

    The choices here are all yours.

  12. #12
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    I can't imagine how crazy high engagement makes a difference on most fat bikes.
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYrr496 View Post
    I can't imagine how crazy high engagement makes a difference on most fat bikes.
    The same way it does on any other mountain bike. There are those that feel they need it to "clock" the chain and ride technical terrain, and then there are those that ride technical terrain without it and do just fine and don't care. I clock all the time on a fatbike to miss branches, obstacles, stumps, etc. Some of our winter trails are quite technical and tight. But again, it's a personal thing, it's like flats or clipless. You can ride aggressive world cup DH racing just fine on clipless. Those that have not learned it are scared to and won't do well on them, just like clipless riders won't do well on flats if forced to change when all they've known is clipless. Neither one is "handicapped" by riding what works for them. For me, it makes no significant difference. I ride a lot of tech and don't need it.
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    I'd like to add a bit of perspective here.

    DT sells tens of thousands of 350/Big Ride hubs every year. I'd wager that the vast majority of people (like 90%+) riding them don't know what engagement is -- have literally never heard the term in the context of bicycles -- and couldn't care less about it. They just ride their bikes.

    Then there are those of us who've been riding for literal decades, whom know exactly what engagement is, whom have access to any/every hub out there, and whom still choose to run the stock 350 hubs because they are the best overall blend of weight, durability, and price, and because engagement matters not one iota on the trail.

    Once you remove those groups from the equation you're left with a teeny, tiny, incredibly small number of riders for whom engagement is relevant. I'd put that number at ~5% of the total riding population. And DT has them covered, too, in that they can increase engagement for a few $, using a process that requires zero tools and takes 90 seconds to effect.

    So you can choose to feel cheated. Or you can realize that the demographic with which you strongly identify is not remotely large enough to tilt the vote. Despite that, you can still choose to increase engagement in a DT hub.

    The choices here are all yours.
    Ha ha, you are probably right. i could just ride instead of researching and probably would be happier.

    but I do experience something that feels like low engagement on technical climbs. But it also could be pawls skipping. Does it prevent me from climbing that mountain? No, but was noticeable. On the other hand I read the DT once it engages is solid because the pawl doesn't have to dig in. I have no access to borrow a high-engagement bike, so can't compare short of buying my own hubs.

    I do have low gearing (26:42 and even plan to get a 46T cassette) and use that a lot. So 20 at the hub will be over 30 at the crank.

    Quote Originally Posted by NYrr496 View Post
    I can't imagine how crazy high engagement makes a difference on most fat bikes.
    Fatbikes climb very steep and lose paths probably better than many MTB. And in winter or lose sand we go extra slow. I have 26:42 low gearing. with lower gearing the crank engagement angle increases.

    Some more DT questions comments:
    - looks like I can get parts for everything, but it requires special tools. I watched some videos and may need at least 2 of their tools to service.
    - If the ratchet it wears out is completely replaceable
    - I haven't seen the specific freehub bearing replacement pain mentioned above, but this concerns me. they should have engineered that better. Or are people just using the wrong tools the wrong way? All DT Swiss videos make everything look easy as long as you use their tools.
    - I like the center lock, which isn't offered for many other hubs. My other wheel build for my hybrid also included going to center lock since i think it is a better system.
    - I like it has no bling, just solid
    - I can buy them and parts everywhere inc the cheaper european stores
    - if I can live with 18 PoE, it is $190 shipped, a bargain compared to $160 for a lesser known bitex

    On the bitex:
    - I'm confused where to buy them. I saw BHS being their importer, but only see their brand. but Prowheelbuilder seems to actually sell bitex labelled hubs. This concerns me especially since no one seems to sell parts. If they only have one seller, that may disappear or they can ask whatever price they feel if they even sell spare parts.
    - I fear if the something wears out, this is a throw-away hub since there doesn't seem to be support.
    - there is not much if any documentation.
    - they seem to have good reviews from users, though

    Not sure if my concerns above are valid or just based on lack of knowledge.
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  15. #15
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    I totally get why people like high engagement hubs. When I ride techy singletrack on my fatty, I utilize the engagement. I simply meant if you're hammering through snow or across beach sand it may matter less. The 40 poe on my Hope hub handles all of it perfectly.

    BHS sells axles, bearing kits, freehubs... His BHS hubs are Bitex hubs. I'm not sure if all Bitex hubs come with Enduro bearings but his do for sure.
    For the money, they're hard to beat.
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  16. #16
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    Maybe I'm just a 5%er, but after a couple of rides with the stock 18 poe on my DT 350 hubs I plunked down my money for a 36 poe upgrade and it was worth it for the reasons mentioned already. Besides the frequent clocking one does riding in snow to get going again, I had an instance heading from a slight downhill to an quick, steep uphill where when I went to pedal and the lag in engagement caused the cranks to free spin leading to losing contact with my flat pedals and the next thing I know I'm at a stop and walking the hill. I probably looked like a total beginner. The 36 poe have been super nice.

  17. #17
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    OK, I was convinced it is between bitex and DT swiss. But after reading the DT literature and watching their videos I'm convinced they require quite a bit of expensive tools. I watched the Hope video (and hope also has a specific explosion diagram for the fatsno, unlike DT that only show generic diagram) and that looks dead simple to be done with standard tools. So from a service point in both simplicity and availability of information hope is much better.

    In addition my (maybe made up) fear of low PoE I'm now between Bitex (54 PoE) and Hope (44 PoE) - i'd say anything under 10 is good enough for me. For the life of me I can't find any service manual or parts list for the Bitex hubs. Seems a bit fishy, and scares me a bit. Or am I missing really obvious information?
    and since BHS seems to re-sell the Bitex hubs, why do they un-label them? Are those downgraded OEM versions? Tempting to buy the re-labelled Bitex for $140 instead of the $220 hope.
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  18. #18
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    BHS laser etches for a cost. I'd imagine that's why he sells em blank.

    Both Hopes and BHS hubs are dead simple to service. I replaced all of the bearings in three hope hubs last week in about an hour.
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  19. #19
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    Here is the DT Swiss ring-nut removal issue (required to get at the freehub side bearing). It's not going to be an issue for a while, but IF you have to replace this, it's a major ordeal and several people have stripped out the tool just trying to do it. Hope is much simpler and easier in this respect. I'd give the nod to DT swiss hubs as being a bit higher quality, where they won't need the bearing replacement as soon, but nothing lasts forever too and these aren't made of unicorn dust.

    http://forums.mtbr.com/wheels-tires/...l-1080475.html
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  20. #20
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    I decided on the Bitex/BHS hub. I sent BHS an email asking about replacement hub and pawls and they have spare parts. They also confirmed it is Bitex. I also like the 54 PoE (now that I know PoE I pay attention - wish I didn't know).

    I placed the order last night and today received tracking information indicating it arrives on Monday. That is great, especially for free shipping.

    I'm sure the DT hub is great and if you ride tons of miles may be the better buy. If you have multiple DT hubs the tool cost also may spread out. But for me with possible ratchet upgrade and specialty tools it would have been an expensive hub for my maybe 1,000 miles a year on the fatbike. I also have a tendency to break or strip things I do the first time, so I need an easy hub.

    The Hope turned out to be an oddball. More expensive than DT and Bitex, but I read a lot about people needing to replace the bearings relatively soon.

    Anyway, I'm looking forward to receiving that hub and hope the dimensions approximate my novatec hub so I can re-use spokes. thanks for everyone who chimed in, everyone had very good points.
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  21. #21
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    I just built fat wheels for two friends with BHS hubs and both of them are thrilled.
    I also just did some Boost wheels and those guys are happy. I think you'll dig em.
    I like turtles

  22. #22
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    The 2 hubs have almost identical measurements, so I can reuse the spokes (both DS and NDS are 266mm)

    The novatec hub weighs 496g, the bitex weighs 342g. A good 150g savings. Now I wonder if I should get new double-butted spokes instead of re-suing the old spokes? not sure if it is worth to lose 32g.

    They are a bit bent from the original lacing.

    If I had to buy new spokes, I sure would use double-butted spokes. Just not sure if it is worth the cost if I could reuse spokes. Unless there is some structural concern re-using spokes.

    According to this site the spokes are made by "CN" (the ones with the "Cn" in the symbol, CN seems to use multiple symbols). They are stainless.
    "Lower-case "n" inside upper-case "C". An entry-level or standard spoke."
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  23. #23
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    https://www.ebay.com/itm/64-Custom-l...e/263804535533

    Here you go. 64 double butted spokes for 49.95.
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  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYrr496 View Post
    https://www.ebay.com/itm/64-Custom-l...e/263804535533

    Here you go. 64 double butted spokes for 49.95.
    thanks. I actually ordered 32 Sapim Race silver. I didn't want to go for a lesser known brand. Only downside it is projected to take over a week. but it is raining here anyway...

    All the time I thought I had black spokes. (my frame is black with black frame bags). turns out the nipples and spokes were silver. Since I didn't notice, I just went with the cheaper silver ones.

    Actually the new hub flange is a mm larger and I came up with 265mm spokes. Good thing about these fat hubs is they have even spoke size DS and NDS (flange distance to each side the same).
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  25. #25
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    Wow... I just noticed these were not Sapim spokes. They used to be. I guess he ound something else when Sapim raised their prices.
    I looked back and the last few pairs of wheels I bought spokes for were these. They build up fine.
    I like turtles

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    I just measured my BHS fat bike hubs, and was about 2mm off the stated offset with my new 15 dollar caliper. I measure to the middle of the flange. Do I stink at measuring or is the stated offset on the BHS web site off a little bit? I know that particular error doesn't really matter, I'm just curious. Now I have to measure my ERD but can't seem to find my nipples.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by ETChipotle View Post
    I just measured my BHS fat bike hubs, and was about 2mm off the stated offset with my new 15 dollar caliper. I measure to the middle of the flange. Do I stink at measuring or is the stated offset on the BHS web site off a little bit? I know that particular error doesn't really matter, I'm just curious. Now I have to measure my ERD but can't seem to find my nipples.
    you have to measure the way your spoke calculator prescribes. Roger Mussson prescribes to measure the inside of the flanges, but that is based on his calculator. He also recommends to never calculate spokes without actually measuring.
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  28. #28
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    To buy a dt with a 36t is like slightly less than buying one with a 18t and getting a 36t kit.


    Also lots went to 54 from 36 so there is alot of used 36t kicking around.


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  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by solarplex View Post
    To buy a dt with a 36t is like slightly less than buying one with a 18t and getting a 36t kit.


    Also lots went to 54 from 36 so there is alot of used 36t kicking around.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    AFAIK most if not all DT hubs on sale have the 18T. but yes, if it was available buying it the way you want will be better than upgrading.

    Not sure about buying used wear parts. unless you know that person, you never know if the star ratchet already had 10,000,000 hard miles on it. I assume every used one on sale will be described as "barely used". the same way every used car is described to have "all highway miles driven by old lady".
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  30. #30
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    if you are still looking for DT hubs, check out Bike24.com. They have them for around $200 for the set. hard to beat that price. they are less than even the BHS hubs.

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