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  1. #1
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    1900 gram wheelset - too heavy for trail/AM?

    I can swap out my new E*13 TRSR carbon wheelset with DT 240 hubs (1900 grams total) if I want for something lighter. That plus the E*13 tires (2200 grams total) almost killed me on the climbing when I took my new bike for its maiden voyage. I will definitely swap out to a DHF/DHR2 combo (1750 grams total) but not sure if that will be enough.

    Is 1900 grams too beefy and worth swapping out for a lighter wheelset at this point?

    Thanks guys.

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    personally that'd be too heavy for me for trail riding. I ride colorado trails @185lb geared and love clearing uphill switchbacks as much as I do flying downhill so my setup is 29er 1500g carbon wheelset (25 iw, "all mountain" carbon layup) and 1650g of tires. (2.3 vigilante front, 2.25 nobby nic rear)

    you have to decide given your weight and riding style what makes sense to you.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtnbkrmike View Post
    I can swap out my new E*13 TRSR carbon wheelset with DT 240 hubs (1900 grams total) if I want for something lighter. That plus the E*13 tires (2200 grams total) almost killed me on the climbing when I took my new bike for its maiden voyage. I will definitely swap out to a DHF/DHR2 combo (1750 grams total) but not sure if that will be enough.

    Is 1900 grams too beefy and worth swapping out for a lighter wheelset at this point?

    Thanks guys.

    Somehow people managed to ride 2000g+ wheelsets for years, maybe decades, and do just fine.

    Is a lighter wheelset "better"? Maybe. Better is subjective though, and not everyone agrees that lighter is always "better".

    IMHO, unless the freehub is failing or they won't work tubeless, the wheels you have now are perfectly fine. Ride 'em.

  4. #4
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    I demoed a bike with E13 alloy wheels with their tire, and it was fine. Go lighter if you want, but I don't see a big need here IMO.
    I got some bad ideas in my head.

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    I have a wheelset for Range that's about 2000g and another that's a touch over 1600g. The 2000g set usually had Michelin Wild Rock'R2 tires on them which are very similar to the E13 tires while my lighter wheels had my 750-800g trail tires on them. Climbing sucked hard on the heavier wheels & tires which is why I used them almost exclusively for bike park days. Riding them on trails for more than 60-90 minutes was a struggle.

    Then last fall I got lazy and didn't want to switch between wet & dry condition tires on my lighter wheelset every week, so I put one set of trail tires on the heavy wheels and the other on my light wheels. The weight of the heavier wheelset is still noticeable, but climbing doesn't suck nearly as much as it did when I had the beefy tires on them. Not as good as my light wheels, but it's close enough that I wouldn't cry about it unless I'm doing a big ride with lots of climbing.

    For anything up to this, no problem. More than that and I'm definitely going to want my light wheels.

  6. #6
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    I went from a 2350g stock wheelset to a 1850g wheelset.

    When im trying to put down a lot of power suddenly and quickly (like trying to push over a technical feature uphill), its easier on the lighter wheels. After a few hours of doing this, I think my knees are happier on the lighter wheels too. On steady sustained climbs its not that different, maybe even unnoticeable.

    A DHR/DHF combo isnt fast. Worrying about weight is pretty silly when you're slogging around those things. If you want to go faster, pick a faster rear tire. Thats a "F it, ill push my bike uphill" combo.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Pivot View Post
    I went from a 2350g stock wheelset to a 1850g wheelset.

    When im trying to put down a lot of power suddenly and quickly (like trying to push over a technical feature uphill), its easier on the lighter wheels. After a few hours of doing this, I think my knees are happier on the lighter wheels too. On steady sustained climbs its not that different, maybe even unnoticeable.

    A DHR/DHF combo isnt fast. Worrying about weight is pretty silly when you're slogging around those things. If you want to go faster, pick a faster rear tire. Thats a "F it, ill push my bike uphill" combo.
    Interesting. I have been running that tire combo on my trail bike for 5 years with zero complaints. Those E*13 tires though... holy shit. HOLY SHIT.

  8. #8
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    yup

    too heavy

    we will see and hear you coming for miles with that rig and laugh so hard....

    MAX you can get away with your bones intact is:
    Weight: Set 1,565g, Front 720g, Rear 845g

    so, get on it.
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  9. #9
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    The climb was not hard because the wheels weighed 1900g
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    The climb was not hard because the wheels weighed 1900g
    Not sure what you mean by that. The 1900 gram E*13 wheels have only had the 2200 gram E*13 tires on them and yeah - climbing was about as pleasurable as a swift kick to the groin.

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    Quote Originally Posted by One Pivot View Post
    I went from a 2350g stock wheelset to a 1850g wheelset.

    When im trying to put down a lot of power suddenly and quickly (like trying to push over a technical feature uphill), its easier on the lighter wheels. After a few hours of doing this, I think my knees are happier on the lighter wheels too. On steady sustained climbs its not that different, maybe even unnoticeable.

    A DHR/DHF combo isnt fast. Worrying about weight is pretty silly when you're slogging around those things. If you want to go faster, pick a faster rear tire. Thats a "F it, ill push my bike uphill" combo.
    Any lighter tire combo come to mind?

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtnbkrmike View Post
    Not sure what you mean by that. The 1900 gram E*13 wheels have only had the 2200 gram E*13 tires on them and yeah - climbing was about as pleasurable as a swift kick to the groin.
    And you can get decent tires around 800g or so each. It wasnít the fault of the wheels.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    And you can get decent tires around 800g or so each. It wasnít the fault of the wheels.
    Yeah. But I am thinking that shaving almost a pound off the wheelset wonít hurt either.

  14. #14
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    I love light wheels. But time off work or to travel to ride is even better. If you have extra $ but canít leave work/family, then lighter wheels are legit. But donít prioritize it over other good things.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Structure View Post
    I love light wheels. But time off work or to travel to ride is even better. If you have extra $ but canít leave work/family, then lighter wheels are legit. But donít prioritize it over other good things.


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    Thanks. All good on the cash front. Cumberland and Moab soon with my daughter, and Paris in the fall. Nobody is going to bed hungry.

    Like somebody else said in another thread, on every single climb, there will be cursing about the extra weight. But never once will they think about the extra cash they dropped to get rid of that weight. That sooooooo applies to me. I am going for it. Life is short. Done.

    As for the tire combo, I really do love the DHF/DHR2 combo. I donít think I can stray from it. Plus it is over a pound less than those E*13 beasts I have been climbing with. They are frickin beasts. Wow.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mtnbkrmike View Post
    Yeah. But I am thinking that shaving almost a pound off the wheelset wonít hurt either.
    He's saying you're out of shape. When your e-prick is large enough, your wheels don't matter.

  17. #17
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    I like strong wheels. It's much more important than saving 1/2 a pound max.
    Yes you will be able feel the lighter wheels but it will be small. The engine is far more important than the weight of the bike.
    My 8 years bike came with 2100 gram wheels and he manages to ride his bike.
    I wouldn't worry about it unless you are racing and podiuming.
    Making shit harder than it needs to be isn't awesome, it's just...harder.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by alexdi View Post
    He's saying you're out of shape. When your e-prick is large enough, your wheels don't matter.
    Hmmm. Not sure I follow this. I didnít mean to come across in a cocky way. Apologies if I did. As for fitness level, I can always improve. No doubt. But I am pretty happy with where I am right now. I am pretty much on my bike 7 days a week, year round, and have been for a long time now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by alexbn921 View Post
    I like strong wheels. It's much more important than saving 1/2 a pound max.
    Yes you will be able feel the lighter wheels but it will be small. The engine is far more important than the weight of the bike.
    My 8 years bike came with 2100 gram wheels and he manages to ride his bike.
    I wouldn't worry about it unless you are racing and podiuming.
    Not racing and not podiuming. But there is something to be said for reaching the summit with a lot more gas in the tank than normal, to rip the shit out of the downs.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtnbkrmike View Post
    Hmmm. Not sure I follow this. I didnít mean to come across in a cocky way. Apologies if I did. As for fitness level, I can always improve. No doubt. But I am pretty happy with where I am right now. I am pretty much on my bike 7 days a week, and have been for a long time now.
    And you are not coming across that way, but these things are rarely just "one thing". For example, I just recently put a works component 1į slacker headset on my bike to try and get rid of a creak (turned out it was the fork crown, now all fixed). That slacker headset made the bike noticeably slower in a lot of situations, making it feel "sluggish", especially uphill. Another issue is that while I predominately ride my AM bike, I got used to my XC bike while I was waiting on fork parts, etc. So now I go out and ride the AM bike and it feels like I'm dragging an anchor, despite it being one of the more efficient bikes out there. For an AM bike, your wheelset (not tires, wheelset) is not heavy. It shouldn't be a major factor here. Yes, dropping a little weight would be good, but I'd reckon the $$$ can be used on more beneficial things. Heck, suspension is one of those things, custom tunes, better rear shocks, etc.
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  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtnbkrmike View Post
    Not racing and not podiuming. But there is something to be said for reaching the summit with a lot more gas in the tank than normal, to rip the shit out of the downs.
    By a lot more gas your only going to save >1% energy.
    "It never gets easier, you just go slower." Old Greg LeMond.
    Making shit harder than it needs to be isn't awesome, it's just...harder.

  22. #22
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    There is a bit of a background story here.

    I recently went mia from work for a week to demo bikes. I landed on one and there was only one left in existence for this year. My LBS locked it down but it was going to take a week to get here. In the meantime, they gave me a lowly rental to use for free until my new bike arrived (I had sold my old one to a buddy).

    My good God. The rental was the funnest of them all. It blew me away. It led me to a whole different style of riding. Instead of being glued and not reaching the fun zone until I was flying at the speed of sound on the downs, I was riding slower, popping off everything. It was incredible. I couldnít believe it. So I grabbed the most experienced rider I knew and we went out with the rental and a demo and a pedal wrench. He had the exact same experience I did.

    I was able to cancel the first order and get the same bike as the rental, but only in the top spec. Unfortunately it does not have the same magic as the lowly rental did. It is glued. Nowhere near poppy. I am trying my best to recapture that magic I felt on that trail with the rental.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtnbkrmike View Post
    I can swap out my new E*13 TRSR carbon wheelset with DT 240 hubs (1900 grams total) if I want for something lighter. That plus the E*13 tires (2200 grams total) almost killed me on the climbing when I took my new bike for its maiden voyage. I will definitely swap out to a DHF/DHR2 combo (1750 grams total) but not sure if that will be enough.

    Is 1900 grams too beefy and worth swapping out for a lighter wheelset at this point?

    Thanks guys.
    Didn't we go through all of this a week ago with your posts on 240 hubs and We Are One Wheels?
    Just get something for goodness sake and get it over with!

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSU Alum View Post
    Didn't we go through all of this a week ago with your posts on 240 hubs and We Are One Wheels?
    Just get something for goodness sake and get it over with!
    I know. Iím sorry to drag you and others into my madness. Honestly. I am. But I soooo appreciate the advice on here. Sorry.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtnbkrmike View Post
    I was able to cancel the first order and get the same bike as the rental, but only in the top spec. Unfortunately it does not have the same magic as the lowly rental did. It is glued. Nowhere near poppy. I am trying my best to recapture that magic I felt on that trail with the rental.
    ok so it's probably the way the suspension was set up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Schulze View Post
    ok so it's probably the way the suspension was set up.
    I am scared it might be the fork itself. The rental had a DVO Diamond on it. It was the lowest spec build. IMHO, that fork absolutely killed. I have a 36 on the model I had to get. It seems heavier and way more glued. Maybe I can get it to where I need it. Maybe not.

    That rental was pure magic. Even with the shitty wheelset, dropper, brakes and everything else. I spent more time in the air on that than on the ground. I have never ridden with that kind of style, and I couldnít stop thinking about it after I got off the bike. Unfortunately, my high spec bike isnít quite there on the magic level.

  27. #27
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    1900 gram wheelset - too heavy for trail/AM?

    Iíll be the contrarian here. Iíve read the posts of some here for awhile. Some of the posters are brutal climbers. You could put them on a 45lb Huffy and they could do a 40mi Colorado ride because they can. Iím in my 50ís and I can even see my ribs and Iím a shite climber. When I was in my 20ís and ripped, I was a shite climber. I can feel the difference between a 1600gm and 1900gm wheelset. The penalty running heavy tires isnít as great with a lighter wheel set. If you have the bucks, go for it. If I didnít have the cash, I would be happy on a heavier wheel set- just slower than slow. Ran them for years until I got out school. Leave the E13 on the front and put a Morsa on the rear. Itís like cheating for the short time it takes to burn it up. Good vacation rear tire.


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  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtnbkrmike View Post
    I am scared it might be the fork itself. The rental had a DVO Diamond on it. It was the lowest spec build. IMHO, that fork absolutely killed. I have a 36 on the model I had to get. It seems heavier and way more glued. Maybe I can get it to where I need it. Maybe not.

    That rental was pure magic. Even with the shitty wheelset, dropper, brakes and everything else. I spent more time in the air on that than on the ground. I have never ridden with that kind of style, and I couldnít stop thinking about it after I got off the bike. Unfortunately, my high spec bike isnít quite there on the magic level.
    Too glued? Not likely the shock. More like the setup's wrong for what you like. If you want that "pop" speed up the rebound damping first. Maybe add a token/spacer or 3 to both front and rear. Only change one thing at a time until you feel like you've nailed it. I'm far from an expert, so maybe hit up the suspension sub-forum for more specifics.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Pivot View Post
    ...A DHR/DHF combo isnt fast. Worrying about weight is pretty silly when you're slogging around those things. If you want to go faster, pick a faster rear tire. Thats a "F it, ill push my bike uphill" combo.
    I actually feel a lot better about things after re-reading this.

    I have been running a DHF/DHR2 combo for probably 5 years. I do not push my bike up anything and I don't usually stop pedalling until the ride is over. I am almost certainly a horribly slow climber compared to most of you, and maybe I am riding some pretty puss terrain. But it has been a long time (that I can remember) since I have pushed my bike up anything (in my neck of the woods at least).

    My last ride on the E*13 wheelset and tires was a loop. Climb up, up, up to the summit, and then slam the downs back to the trail head. I did not stop and was about 8 minutes off my PR.

    So it's not THAT bad. Even with those massive tires (that are 450 grams heavier than a DHF/DHR2 combo).

    It's just that I was pretty gassed when I got to the summit. I didn't have nearly the same amount of energy to toss my bike around on the downs like I did with the rental.

    I was hoping that by losing some rotating weight, I could get the magic back that I had with the rental, by not being so gassed at the summit.

    Tires... Check. Definitely DHF/DHR2. Those have served me so well to date. Pretty much everyone I know runs those tires, and have for a long time now. I have tried various Schwalbes. They get destroyed quickly in the rocky terrain in my area.

    Wheelset... I think I am going to just do it. Whatever.

  30. #30
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    If the swap requires no $$$ out of your pocket, go for it. However, as others have suggested, 1900grams is not a really heavy wheelset. Those e13 tires are likely the culprit of your issues. While they grip like crazy, they also have a lot of rolling resistance. I would start by swapping those first if spending your own $$$.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rondre3000 View Post
    If the swap requires no $$$ out of your pocket, go for it. However, as others have suggested, 1900grams is not a really heavy wheelset. Those e13 tires are likely the culprit of your issues. While they grip like crazy, they also have a lot of rolling resistance. I would start by swapping those first if spending your own $$$.

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    $850 extra out of pocket. E*13 wheelset handed over to LBS for $1300. New wheelset to be purchased for $2150.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mtnbkrmike View Post
    I know. Iím sorry to drag you and others into my madness. Honestly. I am. But I soooo appreciate the advice on here. Sorry.
    It's just funny. You know you want to spend the extra money! You know that will only hurt once, then every time you throw your leg over the bike, it'll feel great.
    Just do it!

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtnbkrmike View Post
    $850 extra out of pocket. E*13 wheelset handed over to LBS for $1300. New wheelset to be purchased for $2150.
    Yay!

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    Quote Originally Posted by mtnbkrmike View Post
    I actually feel a lot better about things after re-reading this.

    I have been running a DHF/DHR2 combo for probably 5 years.
    Even those tires are draggy as hell and I feel it when I ride. One time I had switched tires for a DH race and left them on for a big epic trail ride the next day. I felt them everywhere. Good tires, no doubt, not my first choice for all around riding though. I'm running a DHF in the rear right now on one of my bikes and yep, I feel it
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  35. #35
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    Next thread........my 1750g wheels isn't fast enough need some tune hubs.
    Making shit harder than it needs to be isn't awesome, it's just...harder.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by alexbn921 View Post
    Next thread........my 1750g wheels isn't fast enough need some tune hubs.
    Haha. Stay tuned...

    Just be happy there is an ignore button. Unfortunately, the significant others in my life have to deal with this lunacy daily. I bet they wish they had an ignore button too.

    PS - 1481 grams with DT 240 hubs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    Even those tires are draggy as hell and I feel it when I ride. One time I had switched tires for a DH race and left them on for a big epic trail ride the next day. I felt them everywhere. Good tires, no doubt, not my first choice for all around riding though. I'm running a DHF in the rear right now on one of my bikes and yep, I feel it
    Thanks. I am totally open to suggestions. Thankfully, tires are relatively inexpensive.

    Western Canadian Rockies trail riding. Lots of rock and roots, but relatively dry where I am (relative to the coast).

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    *duplicate post*

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by alexbn921 View Post
    Next thread........my 1750g wheels isn't fast enough need some tune hubs.
    OMG tune hubs. I still see where they left some excess material to be re-tuned at home LOL.

    do one ride or race, then throw them out. repeat.
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  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtnbkrmike View Post
    $850 extra out of pocket. E*13 wheelset handed over to LBS for $1300. New wheelset to be purchased for $2150.
    Nope. Swap tires first.

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  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by rondre3000 View Post
    Nope. Swap tires first.
    This. Then fiddle with the suspension settings.

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