Cliff Miller proposes a very good reason to NEVER ride in Squamish- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Cliff Miller proposes a very good reason to NEVER ride in Squamish

    I'm just about positive, even without having Cliff Miller, that he is probably one of the biggest ******s in the world. Seriously, he can take all his legal BS and right before he shoves it elbow deep into his gaping arsehole he should really pause for a moment to think about what hes done.

    He trademarked "Mountain Bike Capital of Canada"
    - Sweet!
    for Squamish
    - Wait, Wut?!?

    Rossland's been the mtb capital of Canada since, well, since anyone started using the term, OVER A FREAKING DECADE AGO.

    Cliff's argument: But they didn't trademark it, so obviously they weren't serious about using it.

    "It just hit me last year as I was driving the Trans Canada Highway that we should probably trademark it for some reason,” he said. “It was available and it seemed like the right thing to do, but I don’t really know what we’re going to do with it"

    Wow Cliff, that's extra classy. Steal it (you may now hold the trademark, but you sure stole the idea) from a town that currently relies heavily on tourism for it's continued revenue because you're trying to convince a few people to stop as they make the drive from Van to Whis. And although you don't know what you're going to do with it, your first step should totally be sending cease and desist letters to the place thats been using the designation for years. And you should admit to doing this in the same breath as when you state your surprise that another mountain biking hotbed didn't persue this idea first.

    "We’ve earned it, and now we can use the title to promote the community worldwide. That recognition gets some formal clout with this announcement.”"

    Miller said the fee for the trademark was about $1,000, and another part of the reason he wanted to land the title now was to ensure another mountain biking hotbed doesn’t pursue the idea first.

    Miller said that one of the responsibilities of owning a trademark is its active enforcement and defending, so a letter has been sent to Rossland to make them aware of the new situation


    I'm going to stop looking for and posting related News for this story - mostly because reading this stuff is making me violently angry. Some thoughts (which I don't really want to type out due to the building anger)

    - Rossland has a paid trial crew, which they have employed for several years. Squamish has...

    - Kraft Hockeyville-like idea for MTB in Western Canada. Earn the title, don't steal it. Rotate every year, or two, or five.

    - (Cliff is the organizer for the Test of Metal race). I really want to make up a bunch of shirts that say "Rossland, the ORIGINAL mountain bike capital of Canada" on the front, and "I didn't pay to ride the race course today, and you don't have to either" on the back and then riding the test of metal course on race day.

    - Rossland should really trademark "the ORIGINAL mountain bike capital of Canada". And then they should make stickers that say "Rossland, the ORIGINAL" with a bit of white space around them so that anyone can fix Cliff's stickers and signs to be a whole lot more truthful.


    *edit* sorry about the whiney rant-filled post, but this is really a bull***** thing for anyone - especially someone in the mountain bike community - to do.
    Last edited by x-ker; 10-04-2010 at 04:06 PM.
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  2. #2
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    ^ I totally agree. What an arsehole! Promotors should be growing the sport by emphasizing the diversity of riding available in B.C. NOT stealing ideas or titles that are already recognized.

    Bonehead move of the month, maybe the year.

  3. #3
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    Send Cindy Devine over to squish to kick his ass. She'll give him a taste of metal.

  4. #4
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    I'm not so sure it's that big of a deal. Rossland has riding and trails quite a bit different than Squamish plus they have an actual full ski season.
    If someone was planning to say ride 7 Secrets but then saw that the actual "Mountain Biking Capital" was Squamish do you suppose they would change their plans and ride Squamish instead? Somehow I doubt it.
    Rossland's pretty cool so maybe they could trademark that they're the Coolest Mountain Biking Capital in Canada.

  5. #5
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    I've know Cliff for years. This sounds really bad on his face but its so unlike him that i'd say there's more to this than I or you know

  6. #6
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    Victoria is the capital of BC, but that doesn't mean it's a better destination city than Vancouver. Names is just names.
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockyuphill
    .... Names is just names.
    Until some wanker sues you for trademark infringement.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeeL
    I've know Cliff for years. This sounds really bad on his face but its so unlike him that i'd say there's more to this than I or you know

    it sounds to me like Cliff spent a night drinking with Dave Weigle....and then woke up and started patenting stupid sh*t.
    what would rainbow unicorn do?

  9. #9
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    wow. This seems to be getting really out of hand.

    Don't worry Rossland, you still have better snow.

  10. #10
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    I think you're getting a little worked up over this, it's just a name. It's not like he went to Rossland and pooped on every trail

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeeL
    I've know Cliff for years. This sounds really bad on his face but its so unlike him that i'd say there's more to this than I or you know
    I really hope you're correct in that there's more to this than what information is available. And you are correct in that this sounds really bad for Cliff since he (with the current info):
    - Knew about Rossland using the term
    - Patented it anyway
    - Sent cease and desist letters to Rossland to stop using the term

    There really isn't a way to spin this into a good thing, unless he has plans to start up a contest based on "Kraft Hockeyville" in which communities can compete to hold the title of "Mountain Bike Capital of Canada" for a set period of time (1 yr, 2 yrs, 5 yrs, ?).

    Quote Originally Posted by Slowup
    If someone was planning to say ride 7 Summits but then saw that the actual "Mountain Biking Capital" was Squamish do you suppose they would change their plans and ride Squamish instead? Somehow I doubt it.
    (fyp)

    Agreed, however if someone had heard about the phenomenal riding in Western Canada and wanted to plan a vacation here then seeing that a town is known as the mtb capital of Canada might sway their decision of where to vacation. I may be incorrect, but it would seem to me that since Squamish is between Van and Whis they are already getting much higher traffic than Rossland, and Rossland likely requires a bit more help to draw tourists.

    Squamish is already known as the "Outdoor Recreation Capital of Canada", why does Cliff think they also need to be known as the mtb captial of Canada? If Squamish doesn't stop soon, then they won't have to worry about cars stopping on the drive up to Whistler since they won't be able to drive under the welcome to Squamish sign.
    Welcome to Squamish
    Outdoor recreation capital of Canada
    mountain bike capital of Canada
    kiteboarding capital of Canada
    rock climbing capital of Canada
    Highest population of self-righteous ******s in Canada
    scrambling capital of Canada
    paragliding capital of Canada

    Quote Originally Posted by spsoon
    I think you're getting a little worked up over this, it's just a name. It's not like he went to Rossland and pooped on every trail
    Agreed, I am getting a bit worked up over something which actually has no effect on me whatsoever - I just honestly expect more from mountain bikers.

    and LOL

    We're all humans and all of that, but I just think that as a whole mtb'ers are a much more laid-back, easy-going group that don't resort to patenting things under the noses of others. It was mostly just surprising to read about something this underhanded coming from someone whom (I suspect) is a valued and well-known member of the community in Squamish.

    Quote Originally Posted by ferday
    it sounds to me like Cliff spent a night drinking with Dave Weigle....and then woke up and started patenting stupid sh*t.
    I stand corrected, apparently I forgot that there have always been some ******s in our sport.
    *cries a little inside for balfa*
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeeL
    I've know Cliff for years. This sounds really bad on his face but its so unlike him that i'd say there's more to this than I or you know

    Yeah....

    He probably is really good guy...

    Kinda like every one you have known for years.

    Judge people by there actions, not inaction or words.

    He apparently took action, that has caused some people problems.

    Next time you see him ask, but remember those are just words coming out of his mouth.

  13. #13
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    [quote]
    Welcome to Squamish

    Highest population of self-righteous ******s in Canada
    [/unquote]

    I'll contribute to a fund to trademark that one!

  14. #14
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    2 things...

    1. Cliff ain't that bad of a guy.
    2. If it was that important to Rossland to have said title, they should have trademarked it first. They've had 15 years to do it.

    This is part of a longer standing discussion about who really deserves the title. While you're defending Rossland's title here, don't forget that it was a pretty in your face move to take the title in the first place. There's a lot of arguments to be made about the relative merits of riding in either place, but in the end who really cares?

    We all know that North Vancouver is and always will be the MTB Capital of Canada, no matter what Squampton, Mantown, or even Shits-ler have to say on the subject.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnySmoke
    ....This is part of a longer standing discussion about who really deserves the title. While you're defending Rossland's title here, don't forget that it was a pretty in your face move to take the title in the first place. There's a lot of arguments to be made about the relative merits of riding in either place, but in the end who really cares? ...
    Nobody should care, unless they are sent a cease and desist letter to stop advertising something that they have become known for for more than a decade, or even worse, threatened with a lawsuit.

    Why does Cliff care that much? I don't know him but his actions hardly seem generous or supportive of the wider interests of the sport. Why not make your case by promoting what you have rather than taking action which appears more in tune with pure self-serving greedy marketing.

  16. #16
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    The only bad press is no press.

  17. #17
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    J Smoke, I don't know Cliff but I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt and believe what you, and LeeL, and pretty much everyone else that knows him seems to be saying: that in general he's a pretty stand-up guy. I mean really, he's a race organizer, and those people are typically a special breed of awesome. But it seems that since you all respect him, you're willing to ignore and overlook what was a really douchy move on his part. I don't expect this one action to change your opinion of the man, but at least take a moment to acknowledge that perhaps he could've handled this in a better way.

    Also:
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnySmoke
    We all know that North Vancouver is and always will be the MTB Capital of Canada, no matter what Squampton, Mantown, or even Shits-ler have to say on the subject.
    :laughing:
    If I ever meet you, please remind me to buy you a large wooden spoon. That was some of the greatest pot-stirring I've seen on these boards in a while
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  18. #18
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    Ha! Thx man.

    It's obviously a bit tongue in cheek, but I do remember when Rossland first trotted out the title and having a similar reaction to yours. This is back when thy had about 5 trails, so it was sorta ballsy of them to make the claim.

    Oh, and also....

    The media rarely gets it just right, or will impart a spin just to get a reaction. I have a hunch that some of Cliff's comments were taken out of context. Just sayin', it's tough to make judgements based on incomplete stories. Of course, it is kinda fun...


  19. #19
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    1. Who cares
    2. this is the first time I have even heard of Rossland being called the mtb capital of Canada.
    3. I bet that 99% of non canadians that think of MTB in BC, it's the north shore and whistler that come first to mind.
    It's go time

  20. #20
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    xker I told Cliff that he should never ever go into public relations. I totally agree he could have handled this news release better

  21. #21
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    They're certainly busy creating new trails in Squamish. Another new one ready to be revealed it appears This must be on the south side as there's lots of deciduous trees and apparently views of the Chief.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fMOlRtZeRPA
    Last edited by rockyuphill; 10-07-2010 at 04:26 PM.
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  22. #22
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    mmmmm new trail

  23. #23
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    I don't think any place in BC really deserves the title. Both Squamish and Rossland have great riding but just about every town in BC has great riding.

    Anybody who is calling their home town the MTB capital of Canada needs to go on a BC road trip.
    "The best pace is suicide pace, and today is a good day to die." Steve Prefontaine

  24. #24
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    All of BC is the mountain bike capital of Canada, so let's forget this BS, ride our bikes and enjoy a local micro-brew.

  25. #25
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    This talk is all crazy. We all know that the Comox Valley has the best trails....My lawyer will be talking to Mr.Miller

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.Preroll
    This talk is all crazy. We all know that the Comox Valley has the best trails....My lawyer will be talking to Mr.Miller
    yeah but which town? Cumberland? Or Campbell River? Or maybe Hornby Island should claim it?

  27. #27
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    I'm the MTB Capital of Canada.

  28. #28
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    I still don't hear anyone suggesting Mississauga, so back to my first point.

  29. #29
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    I'm definitely the MTB lower case of Canada.
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  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeeL
    yeah but which town? Cumberland? Or Campbell River? Or maybe Hornby Island should claim it?
    Let's get something straight. Campbell River is NOT the Comox Valley. Hornby's trails are great to visit, but would be lame to ride everyday. So the Comox Valley is the sweet spot. I say Valley as I can ride singletrack ( quality west coast deadly singletrack ) either off the main drag OR just of the main drag in either Courtenay or Cumberland. You missed out on some sweet trails when you were here Leel. 5 minutes from the Atlas, you can ride trails up the Punteledge River to the Lake, and then over Cumberland way....Or start in Cumby and work your way over to Courtenay. So yeah Comox Valley....

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockyuphill
    I'm definitely the MTB nut case of Canada.
    fixed

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.Preroll
    Let's get something straight. Campbell River is NOT the Comox Valley. Hornby's trails are great to visit, but would be lame to ride everyday. So the Comox Valley is the sweet spot. I say Valley as I can ride singletrack ( quality west coast deadly singletrack ) either off the main drag OR just of the main drag in either Courtenay or Cumberland. You missed out on some sweet trails when you were here Leel. 5 minutes from the Atlas, you can ride trails up the Punteledge River to the Lake, and then over Cumberland way....Or start in Cumby and work your way over to Courtenay. So yeah Comox Valley....
    We had four days! I know that's not enough - no need to rub it in that your area kicks ass! It might be the MTB Capital of Cana ---- oh wait

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by PVR
    fixed
    pbbbbbt!
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  34. #34
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    Thought this would be the best scenario if it gets accepted . . .

    http://bb.nsmb.com/showthread.php?t=137216

  35. #35
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    Cliff Miller certainly has an overinflated sense of his own importance. A single annual race in Canmore (24 Hours of Adrenaline) dwarfs all of his events combined.

    Aside from that, Rossland should have trademark protection under common law simply by virtue of having used the expression "Mountain Bike Capitol of Canada" for years. This is particularly true if the town has ever added the designation TM after the expression. It doesn't need to be registered to have some (not full) trademark protection, and the town can tell him to "Go Blow". He would need to go after the town, legally, at which point they would probably successfully win on the basis of prior common law trademark protection.

    A similar thing happened in Winnipeg years ago when the big "Brick" furniture chain entered the Winnipeg market and tried to take legal action against a local family operation called Brick's Fine Furniture to prevent them from using the word Brick because it was trademarked. They lost, due to B.F.F. having common law trademark rights.
    Screw the shuttle, I'm riding to the top. You're all worthless and weak!!!

  36. #36
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    There's far to many unicorn avatars on this thread to take it seriously... wtf?

    Being South of the Canadian border for the last decade I have to admit that when I think of Canadian MTBing I think of the North Shore mainly because of the publicity it gets...
    Last edited by SLOCanucker; 03-12-2011 at 02:11 AM.

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