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  1. #1
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    xd for weenieism?

    the published weight difference for an XT vs XO1 cassette is fairly large. something like 433 vs 275 for the 11-42 shimano vs 10-42 sram.
    for that reason alone, i would think that xd cassettes would be a great place to shave weight, especially considering that most wheels are available with an xd freehub. but people refer to them with some ambivalence, more or less equivalent to each other. am i missing some hidden weight somewhere in the sram system? has the weight simply moved from the cassette to the xd driver for an overall similar weight? or is sticking with XD really 5 oz lighter?

    yeah, it's pricey, but this entire subforum is not exactly budget friendly

  2. #2
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    yes it's really that much lighter. no hidden tricks. you actually save a few grams with the change from HG to XD freehub body too.

  3. #3
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    Yes, it's really lighter. The XD freehub unit is also a bit lighter than the equivalent shimano, it's a little smaller and therefore saves a few grams. I've weighed em when I've switched em out. The XD system solves some of the issues before with splines getting scored, in a way that saves significant weight. This has been an issue for years, well after shimano started using cassettes with carriers on some gears, as my constant use of XT cassettes has shown. This wasn't a huge problem when people ran shimano steel or titanium freehub hubs, but when manufacturers like Chris King started making hubs at significantly lower weights, they used aluminum for the same part, which started the scoring issues. Some of the reasons this has been an issue is that the last 4 years are completely loose, including two gears that are only as thin as the actual teeth, so these dig in quite well and over time, make removing the cassette difficult until one day it strips or you can't get the cassette off without destroying it. So the SRAM cassettes solve this, they move the torque inboard instead of as far from the center as possible, they do it at much lighter weight with steel gears for all but the largest, and that largest is replaceable. You do take a hit in price, but you can be a little clever too, the X01 is just as light as the XX1, at 265g for the last one I measured, so no need to go full crazy.

    There are a few other options, the Hope setup is nearly as light as the X01, uses a proprietary hope freehub, you can get one for a DT hub as well as hope, so that's another option.

    Shimano makes good cassettes, I've had the best results with them over the years, not enough time on the newer SRAM cassettes to make the same assessment, but so far so good. There's just no way that Shimano can compete, their XTR that doesn't have nearly the same range as the X01, mine weighs 327g. That's a big difference and shimano had to use aluminum, carbon fiber, and titanium to get there. Bottom line IMO, the XD is a step forward in functionality and weight. It's painful because it's a different standard, but this one delivers some significant weight loss and advantages.

    As far as derailleurs, I prefer the high end SRAM for their little catch button that makes wheel changes a breeze, both high end derailleurs are good, no complaints there though (have X01 and XTR). The shifter is personal, I like the lighter action of the SRAM better, I like the double upshift of the Shimano, but it's not a deal-breaker.

    But to answer your question, yes, this saves some grams.
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  4. #4
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    If you're stuck with a standard freehub, these are the lightest cassettes I've seen.

    Cassettes - PRODUCTS

    They also have an XD 11 speed 305 - 320g and costs a heck of a lot less than XX1 or whatever SRAM's high end ones were running last time I checked.
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by jestep View Post
    If you're stuck with a standard freehub, these are the lightest cassettes I've seen.

    Cassettes - PRODUCTS

    They also have an XD 11 speed 305 - 320g and costs a heck of a lot less than XX1 or whatever SRAM's high end ones were running last time I checked.
    $225 isn't exactly a whole heck of a lot less than X01 at $250, which weighs the same as XX1, at about 265g. I don't see the big benefit here. I don't know if anyone has actually weighed the garbaruk to compare, but I'd be skeptical and the XTR still wins hands down for value at 327g.
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  6. #6
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    Yep, XD driver is lighter. Top is the XD @ 39g (DT 240s), bottom is Shimano @49g:

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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by phlegm View Post
    Yep, XD driver is lighter. Top is the XD @ 39g (DT 240s), bottom is Shimano @49g:

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    Makes sense as there are only a few threads on the XD whereas you have all the splines on the Shimano . Those 10grams could be saved if you machine a split in the middle of each spline . More weight could be saved if you drilled dimples in between each spline (which could also be done on the XD) .

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    $225 isn't exactly a whole heck of a lot less than X01 at $250, which weighs the same as XX1, at about 265g. I don't see the big benefit here. I don't know if anyone has actually weighed the garbaruk to compare, but I'd be skeptical and the XTR still wins hands down for value at 327g.
    I think last time I looked they were something crazy like $350 for the XX1 so definitely more competitive now.

    I've seen some posts on the garbaruk and they're appear to be accurate if not lighter than spec'd.

    But the range is where they win over everyone, 11-46, 11-48, 11-50. 11-50 standard freehub at 299g. Not really even a race at that point.
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  9. #9
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    how do they shift?

    Quote Originally Posted by jestep View Post
    If you're stuck with a standard freehub, these are the lightest cassettes I've seen.

    Cassettes - PRODUCTS

    They also have an XD 11 speed 305 - 320g and costs a heck of a lot less than XX1 or whatever SRAM's high end ones were running last time I checked.

  10. #10
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    No experience with the Garbaruk cassette yet, but my Garbaruk chainring is the best ring I've ever purchased, bar none.

    It was also a few tenths of a gram under the specified weight.
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  11. #11
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    XD drivetrains are lighter for sure. The Sram XO 1x11 cassette is so light, strong, shifts well for a true triple threat.

    And it can do a 10t or 9t ring!!

    I've been using the e-thirteen 9-46 and it is a pretty good option. Great range. Shifting is ok but not as good as the SRAM under power, or shifting a few gears quickly.xd for weenieism?-pc060004.jpg
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    XD drivetrains are lighter for sure. The Sram XO 1x11 cassette is so light, strong, shifts well for a true triple threat.

    And it can do a 10t or 9t ring!!

    I've been using the e-thirteen 9-46 and it is a pretty good option. Great range. Shifting is ok but not as good as the SRAM under power, or shifting a few gears quickly.Click image for larger version. 

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    There's also a pretty large % loss of power with that 9t, while that is probably not significant to most people, it may be to the more racier types.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    There's also a pretty large % loss of power with that 9t, while that is probably not significant to most people, it may be to the more racier types.
    This.

    But, another reason I am considering an 11-50 11s cassette made by Garbaruk is because I kill the smaller XD 6802 bearings faster than the larger 6902s that come in freehubs like the DT Swiss Shimano version.
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  14. #14
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    The 1195 (X01) cassette really is a work of art. It weighs in at 264g, vs the old XT 10-speed, which came in at a super piggy 462g (and that was with an aluminum Wolftooth 42t giant cog). If you are going to go 11-speed, not spending the cash on the 1195 cassette really is penny wise and pound foolish. See what I did there?

    xd for weenieism?-img_1330.jpg
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  15. #15
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    Ounces (not grams) shown on a WW thread? Shame!

    P.S. Wipe that blood of the counter (pic 3).

  16. #16
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    That heavy cassette w/extender cog isn't a XT 10 spd, but a SRAM PG 10 speed cassette (PG-1030?)

    SRAM's XG 10 speed stuff is a different story. 208g 11-36. Hard to beat this as a weight weenie, without giving up durability and shifting performance. I know I can't give up the ability to shift to a higher/faster gear when accelerating, without getting the dreaded skip where it feels like your chain drops/slips.
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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varaxis View Post
    That heavy cassette w/extender cog isn't a XT 10 spd, but a SRAM PG 10 speed cassette (PG-1030?)

    SRAM's XG 10 speed stuff is a different story. 208g 11-36. Hard to beat this as a weight weenie, without giving up durability and shifting performance. I know I can't give up the ability to shift to a higher/faster gear when accelerating, without getting the dreaded skip where it feels like your chain drops/slips.
    My Recon cassettes shift the chain just fine but you are right about durability .

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by phlegm View Post
    Ounces (not grams) shown on a WW thread? Shame!

    P.S. Wipe that blood of the counter (pic 3).
    Ha! I lost my gram scale, so had to go back to the Neanderthal system for a bit. Blood? What blood?

  19. #19
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    I always marvel when I see $6000 bikes with that 11-46 XT boat anchor. XTR's 11-40 isn't so bad if you've got the watts to push it, but it's still totally outclassed by the SRAM cassette with less weight, more range, *and* more steel cogs. Since moving to a XX1 setup, I haven't missed Shimano in any capacity.

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