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  1. #1
    Trail rider and racer
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    Idea! Suggestions for WW FAQ section

    Hey Everyone,

    I am going to post a Sticky thread at the top of our forum with Frequently asked questions like: "Where can I find the weight of this component etc?"

    Post all your suggestions here and I will get started....


    Cheers
    Trevor!

  2. #2
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    Idea!

    How about a latex homebrew mix

  3. #3

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    Like this?

    Never used....yet.

    How to seal your rims and run tubeless with reliability and minimal investment.

    We are not only going to tell you how to seal your rims and run tubeless, but we are also going to tell you how to seal almost any tire to run tubeless. Time involved can be less than thirty minutes per wheel, and costs less than two dollars per wheel.

    Materials you will need:

    Brake clean.
    Nylon reinforced packing tape 3M brand.
    Electrical tape 3M brand super 33 - 3/4in wide
    Scotch bright scouring pad.
    An old tube for the valve stem, use a tube that weighs about 170 grams, this we found provides for a firm but not too firm to seal. We found that you must use a presta valve in order to get a positive seal. Schrader valves will not work properly.
    Liquid latex or molding rubber (this can be found in most craft shops) you can also use a can of fix a flat , which is readily available. The mold builder I use can be found at www.eti-usa.com click on mold builder then on where to purchase.
    Water, or windshield washer solvent for below freezing temperatures. Michelin 22 mm wide semi flexible plastic rim strip weighing 15 grams. This is an option for those who are overly concerned with damaging the seal during tire changing. This also helps with the mounting of many non-tubeless tires. Definitely not for the weight weenies. A schrader to presta valve adapter.

    If you are having problems finding anything call me and I can ship you some.

    After cleaning your rims thoroughly with brake clean and a scotch pad, the next step would be to put the nylon reinforcing tape over the spoke holes. The nylon reinforcing tape only needs to be about 15 mm wide (see photo). Any wider than 15 mm will result in failure because the adhesives used in the packing tape will be dissolved by the ammonia in the latex and fix a flat mixtures. Once the packing tape is covered with the electrical tape it is not exposed to the solvent effects of the latex mixture. In order to cut your tape to 15 mm wide, measure 15 mm with a ruler then start a small slit with a razor blade and the remaining role will continue to unravel at that width. Start to tape between two spoke holes maintaining tension on the tape so as to avoid wrinkling the tape. Make one complete revolution around the rim and let the tape overlap itself approximately two inches. To seat the tape press firmly down with a shop rag and go around the rim in this manner. Now start the electrical tape around the rim in the same manner. Remember to maintain tension during this procedure as to not cause any wrinkles in the tape. Only go around the rim once with each type of tape. This will be an adequate seal and only add about ten grams of weight to the rim with an additional five grams coming from the valve stem. You weight weenies will appreciate sealed rims for only fifteen grams.

    Be sure to clear the hole in the rim for the valve stem. A number two Philips screwdriver works very good for this. Push the hole from the taped valley side of the rim. Clean the valve stem hole with a round file to remove any tape from the inside of the valve stem hole. In order to properly seat the tape you must now mount a tire and tube in the usual way for about ten minutes with fifty pounds of air pressure. The mounted tire and tube will press the tape firmly and evenly insuring a positive seal. It is worth the wait.

    To install the valve stem take a presta valve tube and cut the stem away from the tube to a width of about 10 to 12 mm (see photo). This diameter is crucial because too small means the stem will pull through the rim and too large will not allow the tire bead to seat. Push the valve stem through the rim hole and tighten the collar finger tight while pushing down from the back. You may need to retighten this collar after the tire is inflated. If your rim has a small hole on the inside (presta valve) then you can use an old 90 gram on up ultra light valve stem , the more flexiable the rubber the easier the seal. But if you have a schrader hole or rubber adaptor on the inside then use the 170 gram tube.

    Now you can mount your tire of choice be it tubeless or non-tubeless. Lay the rim horizontal and mount the lower bead of your tire (see photo). Mix a quarter cup of water and one teaspoon of liquid latex and stir till mixed well (this ads about sixty grams). Pour the mixture inside the tire and then mount the final bead. Those riding in subfreezing temperatures can substitute windshield washer fluid in place of water to serve as antifreeze. This should be good to about zero degrees Fahrenheit. We have ridden in ten degree weather and have not experienced any problems with the water mixed solution. We do however suggest that you use the windshield washer solvent to avoid any unforeseen cold weather riding problems. We highly recommend using an air compressor for the first inflation especially when using a non-tubeless tire. Non-tubeless tires may have very porous sidewalls and previous punctures that will be sealed by the liquid latex mixture. Hold the tire vertically while inflating so as not to distort the bead (see photo). Once the bead has seated rotate the tire so the liquid latex mixture can seal any leaks (see photo). Use a soapy solution to check for any air leaks and rotate the tire so the liquid latex can get to these areas and seal them. This may take several minutes and in severe cases may require reinflation. Also check with soap around the valve stem. If it is leaking tighten stem if it does not stop you will have to rotate the tire so the liquid laytex can get to it and seal it. Play with it-you'll get it.

    After mounting and sealing all holes you should spin the tire or better yet ride it . This will coat the inside of the tire and keep on sealing every time you ride. If you have an old tire you do not care about then mount that up tubeless with the 1/4 cup of liquid laytex . After you have it sealed grab a large needle and poke several holes in the tire ,you will be amazed how they're sealed almost instantly.

    The cost savings and advantages of using my system for tubeless rims and tires are many fold. Several of my riding pals and I have ridden sub freezing temperatures with not one problem. I have tried out this system through out the Northeast as well as the Southwest parts of this country. From frozen single track to the slick rock of Moab it has not let me down. With my system you to can enjoy the advantages of tubeless technology with minimal cost or weight gain. My tubeless system will not leak down as compared to the heavier tubeless specific tires that are currently being sold. For instance if you want to run a 380 gram Maxis Minitor tire you can enjoy the weight savings and advantages of a tubeless self-sealing tire system. Your light weight wheel set can be converted to a tubeless set up with only 15 grams of added weight per wheel. Saving hundreds of dollars over purchasing new wheels.

    No need to worry about the dreaded pinch flat. Possibly never having another puncture flat again because of the self-sealing qualities of the liquid latex. You will be able to keep on using your lighter weight tires and not be limited to buying expensive and way heavier tubeless specific tires. The liquid latex can also be used to seal the puncture flats and slow leaks that occurr around the beads of some tubeless tires. As result you will be able to run lower tire pressures gaining more traction and a better ride. Those of you out there who are riding hard tails would really benefit from this.

    It is important to note that not all but many tires will mount up tubeless. For example a tire with a cloth bead will not mount as easy as a tire with a rubberized bead. A loose fitting tire will be harder to inflate that a tighter fitting one. The plastic Michelin rim strip will make the inflation of any tire and rim combination easier. Using a little squirt bottle with water or windex on the bead during inflation will aid in the bead sealing. It is very important that the entire bead must be between valve stem and the rim on both sides or the tire will not take air. After the initial mounting all subsequent mountings will be easier. We are often asked, "what happens if I get a flat on the Trail?" Normally you would use the tube you carry in your pack, or do like most riders and bum a tube from one of your pals, because they always carry one. Hell use their pump too.

  4. #4
    JmZ
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    My Thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by Trevor!
    Hey Everyone,

    I am going to post a Sticky thread at the top of our forum with Frequently asked questions like: "Where can I find the weight of this component etc?"

    Post all your suggestions here and I will get started....


    Cheers
    Trevor!
    How 'bouts a top list of common questions. My suggestions follow.

    1) How much does X weigh.
    Pointers to sites.
    2) Where can I save weight off my bike.
    General pointers.
    3) Is expensive ALWAYS better?
    Debunk the myth that it HAS to be expensive to be light. Some of the most expensive things are heavy.
    4) Where can I find some of these light parts (don't know if a series of sales links would be cool on mtbr, considering it would need updating on a regular basis too...)
    5) An answer to the oft reoccuring question "Why lose the weight off the bike instead of your body?"
    6) Point out violators of the Bontrager rule of thermodynamics - Cheap, Light, Strong - pick two.
    7) How can I be a budget weenie. Not all of us can afford $100+ for a saddle or stem, but still want a (reasonably) light bike.
    8) Where is the line between performance/durability/weight?
    9) Is newer always better? Weight weenies of the past. And where to get it if still available.
    10) How can I get some apparently unobtainum parts from Europe, direct from Taiwan, or some other place.

    JmZ
    JmZ

    From one flat land to another.

    Advocate as if your ride depends on it...

  5. #5
    Trail rider and racer
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    Great help JmZ, Looks like you've done all the hard work for me... No seriously these are the sorts of things I wanted to have, so people could get answers quickly.

    Ciao
    Trevor!



    Quote Originally Posted by JmZ
    How 'bouts a top list of common questions. My suggestions follow.

    1) How much does X weigh.
    Pointers to sites.
    2) Where can I save weight off my bike.
    General pointers.
    3) Is expensive ALWAYS better?
    Debunk the myth that it HAS to be expensive to be light. Some of the most expensive things are heavy.
    4) Where can I find some of these light parts (don't know if a series of sales links would be cool on mtbr, considering it would need updating on a regular basis too...)
    5) An answer to the oft reoccuring question "Why lose the weight off the bike instead of your body?"
    6) Point out violators of the Bontrager rule of thermodynamics - Cheap, Light, Strong - pick two.
    7) How can I be a budget weenie. Not all of us can afford $100+ for a saddle or stem, but still want a (reasonably) light bike.
    8) Where is the line between performance/durability/weight?
    9) Is newer always better? Weight weenies of the past. And where to get it if still available.
    10) How can I get some apparently unobtainum parts from Europe, direct from Taiwan, or some other place.

    JmZ

  6. #6
    Trail rider and racer
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    Quote Originally Posted by jjay
    How about a latex homebrew mix
    I will most definitely add that question for sure!

  7. #7
    Just passing through....
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    Interesting that they bring up the Minotaur

    That has been the best working tire I have ever tried with a homemade tubeless system.


    "The cost savings and advantages of using my system for tubeless rims and tires are many fold. Several of my riding pals and I have ridden sub freezing temperatures with not one problem. I have tried out this system through out the Northeast as well as the Southwest parts of this country. From frozen single track to the slick rock of Moab it has not let me down. With my system you to can enjoy the advantages of tubeless technology with minimal cost or weight gain. My tubeless system will not leak down as compared to the heavier tubeless specific tires that are currently being sold. For instance if you want to run a 380 gram Maxis Minitor tire you can enjoy the weight savings and advantages of a tubeless self-sealing tire system. Your light weight wheel set can be converted to a tubeless set up with only 15 grams of added weight per wheel. Saving hundreds of dollars over purchasing new wheels. "

  8. #8
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    maybe also...

    - where to use Al-bolts and Ti-bolts ? I have made an article on weight-weenies about this topic.
    - where can i save weight without spending any or very little money (shaving, removing parts like gear display etc) .....that's sinilar to JmZ's no 7)
    -a top listing with lets say top 3 lightest parts of each category (example v-brakes: 1.Vuelta Mag / 2.Mrazek / 3.Avid Mag etc..)
    -can road parts be used on a MTB?
    -links to weight related sites?
    -where to start loosing weight? (1. tires/tubes...etc)
    -light tires / wheels? (what are light tires for XC, allround, etc..+ some general rules for wheels)

  9. #9

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    debunking the weight vs. function of self sealed systems

    Don't get me wrong! I use a tubeless system myself and have really enjoyed it - but I use it as a tool, or function if you will,and NOT as a weight saving measure. Two 90 gram tubes are 180g of course (basic math) - but if you use Stans for instance - rim strips are 25g x2, and 60g x2 for the sealant..this comes to roughly 170g - so yes it IS a smidge lighter, and this is if you feel inclined to use only one scoop...I usually use 1 1/2 for super sealing power....I know Eclipse is a bit lighter, and if you don't use rim strips - even lighter....but I've heard not using rim strips is a dicey endeavor. So for me at least, it was a decision that I came to because having flats in races was not an option anymore, and the fact that there is "slightly" less rolling resistance....just thought I would throw that out there..

  10. #10

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    Bolt tuning solutions

    We often get posts about weight saved by bolt tuning a particular set of brakes, or the moving parts of a popular frame kit. But, we don't often get the full spec on what size bolts, whether they have to be cut down in length to work, how many of each size, which ones to use (aluminum vs a stronger material (Ti)), where to get each size, etc.

    It would be cool to have a detailed "kits" written up for tuning Avid mags, the Vuelta mags, a RacerX frame, an XT front derailleur, etc.

  11. #11
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    like this?...

    VUELTA-BRAKE TUNING:

    4 Canti-bolts M6x12mm : Vuelta 25g (ca. 25mm long!!) / short shimano steel 16g / Ti 10g / Al 5g...................-20g (Al)

    4 padcarrier bolts: steel 20g / SRP Ti 12g..............................................-8g (Ti)

    4 pad fixing nuts M6 : Vuelta steel 8g / Ti 9g / Al 4g.............................-4g (Al)

    2 Cable fixing bolts M6x8mm + washers (Avid) : steel 10g / Ti 6g / Al 3g.....-7g (Al)

    4 drilling of padcarriers : saves1g each..........................................-4g

    4 spring adjuster bolts M4 x 10mm : steel ca. 7g / Al 3g..................................-4g


    Total possible savings over Vuelta with standard bolts : -47g (272g - 47g = 225g)

  12. #12

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    Sort of like that, but . . . .

    Quote Originally Posted by nino
    VUELTA-BRAKE TUNING:

    4 Canti-bolts M6x12mm : Vuelta 25g (ca. 25mm long!!) / short shimano steel 16g / Ti 10g / Al 5g...................-20g (Al)

    How long should the Canti-bolt be?

    4 padcarrier bolts: steel 20g / SRP Ti 12g..............................................-8g (Ti)

    What size bolt is this?

    4 pad fixing nuts M6 : Vuelta steel 8g / Ti 9g / Al 4g.............................-4g (Al)

    How long should this be?

    2 Cable fixing bolts M6x8mm + washers (Avid) : steel 10g / Ti 6g / Al 3g.....-7g (Al)

    4 drilling of padcarriers : saves1g each..........................................-4g

    4 spring adjuster bolts M4 x 10mm : steel ca. 7g / Al 3g..................................-4g


    Total possible savings over Vuelta with standard bolts : -47g (272g - 47g = 225g)

    Per the above, there seem to be 4 specs missing is someone was shopping for the fasteners necessary.

  13. #13
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    it's all in there...

    actually it's all in there:
    -the canti bolts can be as short as M6 x 12mm
    -the padcarrier bolt is just that: a special bolt.it's M6 but since there is just 1 size available so it doesn't matter what lenght it has.it's also called "T-bolt"
    -there is no lenght for nuts.the size is M6 that's all you need to know.

  14. #14

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    Thanks, Nino nm

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tbonius
    Don't get me wrong! I use a tubeless system myself and have really enjoyed it - but I use it as a tool, or function if you will,and NOT as a weight saving measure. Two 90 gram tubes are 180g of course (basic math) - but if you use Stans for instance - rim strips are 25g x2, and 60g x2 for the sealant..this comes to roughly 170g - so yes it IS a there..
    That's if you go the tape and michelin strip method. If you go the newer rubber strips method, there's no weight savings at all over tubes. Of course stan's only sells the kits with the rubber strips now so the whole weight savings claim is rather ad gimmicky at this point (especially since using conventional tires in a tubeless way is just asking Murphy to write a law for you).

  16. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by DeeEight
    That's if you go the tape and michelin strip method. If you go the newer rubber strips method, there's no weight savings at all over tubes. Of course stan's only sells the kits with the rubber strips now so the whole weight savings claim is rather ad gimmicky at this point (especially since using conventional tires in a tubeless way is just asking Murphy to write a law for you).
    Well it does in theory seem to be asking for trouble - but MAN does it work! I've removed many thorns from my tires....ssssssssspplip...they seal right up...I can definitely say that I have had less flats with the sealed system - but it is a hassle - and messy

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