Starting from scratch-Where to begin?- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Starting from scratch-Where to begin?

    I'm interested in a light mtb but cannot get distributor prices so I can't really start from scratch and build the ideal light bike. So my question is where do I begin? (this would be a good faq question) It seems to me I should start with a high end complete hard tail and swap out the heavier parts for lighter ones. Thus the Scott Scale Limited looks most tempting. Extra light bikes are light but I have to admit don't come with the bling bling components I want (fish bones vs. E-bones) and I am a heavy 190-200 pounds.

    So the Scott Scale Limited looks nice but unfortunately the 2006 is heavier than the 2005. I don't necessarily mind this. Going to XTR discs could be interesting. But anyway, is this how I should begin? What parts should I swap out first? Is my weight a problem with Powerarm Pro's and a scandium bb? My budget is comfortably $6k maybe more if there is a have to have part. Granted this won't be a super ww bike with disks but any and all advice appreciated. Does anyone in Europe sell complete Spins?

    Long time lurker here from before we had to register to post. I really enjoy ww stuff despite the obvious materialist associations but I enjoy bikes a lot and have taken great pleasure reading about peoples builds here and interesting parts from Europe.

    Thanks

  2. #2
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    well i'd say with a $6000 budget you CAN start from scratch unless you're trying to go silly light. What do you want to do with this bike?

  3. #3
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    Smooth XC minor jumping

    Quote Originally Posted by bhsavery
    well i'd say with a $6000 budget you CAN start from scratch unless you're trying to go silly light. What do you want to do with this bike?
    Well basically it would be a cross country bike. To be honest where I live pretty light duty, there are no precarious rocks generally and it is very flat. Occasionally I do technical stuff that can be kind of rough, trials like hopping and awkward logs, challenging technical stuff from time to time but pretty rare. I don't avoid that stuff in other words. In that regard I will be very careful at first and if I break something . . . I break it. I do not do a lot of miles due to time constraints and bad knees. I like speed into corners, late braking, smooth jumping if any. This occasionally means washing out and crashing. Does this description make sense?

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slobberdoggy
    I'm interested in a light mtb but cannot get distributor prices so I can't really start from scratch and build the ideal light bike. So my question is where do I begin? (this would be a good faq question) It seems to me I should start with a high end complete hard tail and swap out the heavier parts for lighter ones. Thus the Scott Scale Limited looks most tempting. Extra light bikes are light but I have to admit don't come with the bling bling components I want (fish bones vs. E-bones) and I am a heavy 190-200 pounds.

    So the Scott Scale Limited looks nice but unfortunately the 2006 is heavier than the 2005. I don't necessarily mind this. Going to XTR discs could be interesting. But anyway, is this how I should begin? What parts should I swap out first? Is my weight a problem with Powerarm Pro's and a scandium bb? My budget is comfortably $6k maybe more if there is a have to have part. Granted this won't be a super ww bike with disks but any and all advice appreciated. Does anyone in Europe sell complete Spins?

    Long time lurker here from before we had to register to post. I really enjoy ww stuff despite the obvious materialist associations but I enjoy bikes a lot and have taken great pleasure reading about peoples builds here and interesting parts from Europe.

    Thanks
    Check out the Motobecane Fly - a complete under 21 lb aluminum hardtail with v-brakes. It's also on sale at one of this website's sponsors for about $1000 for the complete bike. That ought to leave plenty of money left over to trick it out with all your favorite bling bling .

    Or... start with a bare frame and build it with your choice of parts like I did with my Klein .

  5. #5
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    Hmmm....

    Quote Originally Posted by SoCalDesertRider
    Check out the Motobecane Fly - a complete under 21 lb aluminum hardtail with v-brakes. It's also on sale at one of this website's sponsors for about $1000 for the complete bike. That ought to leave plenty of money left over to trick it out with all your favorite bling bling .

    Or... start with a bare frame and build it with your choice of parts like I did with my Klein .
    I will consider the possibilities with that. The moto frame/graphics are actually kind of cool but I wonder if maybe you are thinking a little too practical. Or rather I guess I need to consider building/rebuilding a bike ground up. I keep telling myself that would be a great relaxing and fun project but I'm not sure how much time I will have. Likewise Orbea has 2006 carbon HT that looks good that should be cheaper then the Scott.

  6. #6
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    Yeah if you're not ready to go ultra WW but want a great XC rig, maybe get a light scandium carbon bike, then add parts as you see fit.

    Suggestions:
    Scott Scales
    Giant carbon
    new Specialized S-Works hardtail
    Canyon/Spin/Storck if you're in europe

  7. #7
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    wow, i wish i had 6 g's to go hog wild with. i would stay away from the orbea. it is the first year for their carbon mtb. so i would let them have a year to figure out the kinks that may come up with the first model. i would look at bike from light-bikes.com and get some light part ideas from there. are you more interested in aluminium, ti, carbon, or steel. maybe with 6 thousand you should go for a custom frame, so you know that it will fit and be comfortable. an uncomfortable bike isn't fun to ride. also if you race you may want race wheels and normal crappy weather wheels. what are your intentions with this bike. to race or just to get some heads turning. i can't wait to see how this all turns out. it should be one amazing bike.
    -mpap

  8. #8
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    It will take time

    I'm pretty familiar with the light-bikes site and the WWeenies site. The problem it appears to me is when you build piece by piece it does get really expensive fast when you don't have LBS prices (Triple ties for example - thank goodness for ebay). So getting a complete bike then ebaying off/on other parts sounds appealing. For some reason I have lost interest in the custom frames because they are really expensive generally (a Strong 6/4 ti frame is tempting) except Dean and a few others (thinking of ti bikes). The custom bikes are not as light as the Scott AFAIK too. The Scott is at the top of the list because it is light and well engineered (yes Taiwan made ) and I can complain to people here if I break it! I don't have a whole lot of time to build a bike from scratch either. I'm thinking this, Scott Scale Limited 06 dump cranks and pedals for better stuff and then . . . potentially wheels? Schmolke bar or seat post? Where's the next best place to kill weight for $? The tires I'm guessing are already pretty light. If the XTR shifters are that "rapid rise" does that preclude the use a tiso or dura ace rear der? This is somewhat premature but these are the thoughts going through my head.

    Should I not be looking at complete bikes at all and be finding a specialist who can do all the work for me but with distributor prices and a little something something tacked on for them? Do specialists like this exist? I think the LBS's where I am would think I'm nuts and not have the foggiest idea what a power arm pro is and persuade me away from scandium spindles (I doubt they have a dist. for Storck cranks anyway).

    Oh yeah. I don't race, would consider it thou LOL. This would be a trail bike and occasionally city bike but for leisure commuting. Personally I could do without the head turning but I myself certainly enjoy exotic parts, particularly some of the stuff from Europe.
    Last edited by Slobberdoggy; 09-28-2005 at 07:36 AM.

  9. #9
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    I reccommend

    1) Create a detailed spreadsheet of all your component options. List the weights and cost of every option.

    2) review all the tricks of the trade at weightweenies and light-bikes and check every component on your list. Select your frame first because it will determine sizes for many things that go in it. Particularly scrutinize your frame, wheel and drivetrain choices as they are the heavy hitters.

    3) Hook up with a good local shop, a good online shop, or an out out of area (out of state) shop that you can trust. I found one in MBA and they proved to be very trustworthy.

    4) Discuss your whole list with the shop and start buying stuff.

    5) Build your own bike.

    You can easily build a sub 23lb FS for $6k.



    Quote Originally Posted by Slobberdoggy
    I'm interested in a light mtb but cannot get distributor prices so I can't really start from scratch and build the ideal light bike. So my question is where do I begin? (this would be a good faq question) It seems to me I should start with a high end complete hard tail and swap out the heavier parts for lighter ones. Thus the Scott Scale Limited looks most tempting. Extra light bikes are light but I have to admit don't come with the bling bling components I want (fish bones vs. E-bones) and I am a heavy 190-200 pounds.

    So the Scott Scale Limited looks nice but unfortunately the 2006 is heavier than the 2005. I don't necessarily mind this. Going to XTR discs could be interesting. But anyway, is this how I should begin? What parts should I swap out first? Is my weight a problem with Powerarm Pro's and a scandium bb? My budget is comfortably $6k maybe more if there is a have to have part. Granted this won't be a super ww bike with disks but any and all advice appreciated. Does anyone in Europe sell complete Spins?

    Long time lurker here from before we had to register to post. I really enjoy ww stuff despite the obvious materialist associations but I enjoy bikes a lot and have taken great pleasure reading about peoples builds here and interesting parts from Europe.

    Thanks
    M

  10. #10
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    Spreadsheets out there for me?

    Does anybody have a spread sheet they could send me? Maybe ww has something. And a reputable shop? I'm so busy currently it's hard to imagine working on a spread sheet.

    I better be able to go under 23 pounds! I hoping sub 20 for sure.

  11. #11
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    Do you boys and girls know how long you need to wait a Spin frame?
    2 years!

  12. #12
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    please post your progress

    At 190lb I would not recommend you ride any of the FS bikes listed below 20lb on the light-bikes site. I think 22lb is a barely acheivable goal and I'd like to see how you do it.




    Quote Originally Posted by Slobberdoggy
    Does anybody have a spread sheet they could send me? Maybe ww has something. And a reputable shop? I'm so busy currently it's hard to imagine working on a spread sheet.

    I better be able to go under 23 pounds! I hoping sub 20 for sure.
    M

  13. #13
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    Hard Tail

    I'm going for a hard tail (HT) rather than a full suspension (FS) sorry if I messed up the acronyms earlier.

  14. #14
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    call hi-tech bikes

    I race against some of the mtb guys on their team. The shop guys are all very knowledgeable and interested in ultra light stuff and you can trust they will take care of you. Unlike any othe shop they know all about running a 10 speed chain on a 9 speed mtb. Give them a dollar and weight number and I bet they can do it for you. It is the only store I've been in that sells the European items like tune, stronglight, zero-gravity, etc. They happen to be a few miles from where I live (San Diego).

    http://www.hi-techbikes.com/



    Quote Originally Posted by Slobberdoggy
    I'm pretty familiar with the light-bikes site and the WWeenies site. The problem it appears to me is when you build piece by piece it does get really expensive fast when you don't have LBS prices (Triple ties for example - thank goodness for ebay). So getting a complete bike then ebaying off/on other parts sounds appealing. For some reason I have lost interest in the custom frames because they are really expensive generally (a Strong 6/4 ti frame is tempting) except Dean and a few others (thinking of ti bikes). The custom bikes are not as light as the Scott AFAIK too. The Scott is at the top of the list because it is light and well engineered (yes Taiwan made ) and I can complain to people here if I break it! I don't have a whole lot of time to build a bike from scratch either. I'm thinking this, Scott Scale Limited 06 dump cranks and pedals for better stuff and then . . . potentially wheels? Schmolke bar or seat post? Where's the next best place to kill weight for $? The tires I'm guessing are already pretty light. If the XTR shifters are that "rapid rise" does that preclude the use a tiso or dura ace rear der? This is somewhat premature but these are the thoughts going through my head.

    Should I not be looking at complete bikes at all and be finding a specialist who can do all the work for me but with distributor prices and a little something something tacked on for them? Do specialists like this exist? I think the LBS's where I am would think I'm nuts and not have the foggiest idea what a power arm pro is and persuade me away from scandium spindles (I doubt they have a dist. for Storck cranks anyway).

    Oh yeah. I don't race, would consider it thou LOL. This would be a trail bike and occasionally city bike but for leisure commuting. Personally I could do without the head turning but I myself certainly enjoy exotic parts, particularly some of the stuff from Europe.
    M

  15. #15
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    $6000 US to spend on a hardtail

    Depending on what you are after (how much bling?) I would have thought 6k was a bit of a overkill? You mentioned sub 23lb and hoping for sub 20lb ... I'd say you will have no problem if you plan your parts well and should have a heap of $$ left over or one hell of a bling bike if you spend it all. I dont know if you saw my new Salsa HT build I posted here? I've just added it all up and it worked out to ~$3700 US with a final weight of 8.9kg / 19.8lbs .. and I built it with a bit more strength than most light builds with my 80kg (~85kg RTR) weight in mind. And keep in mind a chunk of that cash was spent on air mail postage from the US to Australia. I bought the frame, fork and a few other bits from Speedgoat.com and most of the rest was bought new from ebay. If your still looking for a spreadsheet I think the light bikes has one for download when you sign up... Good luck

  16. #16
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    I shouldn't have quoted a figure

    Because it shows a certain naivety on my part but I wanted to emphasize I'm pretty serious. I see a lot of complete high end bikes between $4k and now $7k (for the specialized) and they are not even that light. I figured that's the territory I am in. My perspective is, is this a big enough budget with the prices of wheels, cranks, concord seats etc. (Why are there no carbon v-brakes?)

    Yes, to be honest, I am going for "bling" in that I could get a cheap scandium frame and easily be under 20lbs and my budget but I would like to have some nice parts. In the past I had calculated optimized builds and they were way beyond my current budget. There are a lot of nice builds on the web but nobody quotes prices. How much did Wittmans' bike cost for example? My desire is to be under 20lbs, relatively strong for my weight, and low miles per year but not rely on Vuelta brakes or xpedo peddles and instead get disk and triple ties. (I might do v-Brakes) It would be awsome to have soul kozak hubs and cx-ray spokes but I don't think I can afford that. If I cannot find the time to organize a full fledge build or get someone to do it for me, I'm just going to get a scale limited and change a few parts. I'm doing some research in this regard right now.

    Perhaps I should not have posted anything, but I have so I'll keep you posted.

    Thanks Motivated for the link - I will check that out.

  17. #17
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    You prolly wil be most happy with a scale, it's the stiffest and lightest out there, even recommended for heavier riders.

    I'd not get any Soul Kozak hubs though, I am not qualified to say that, cause I've never ridden or used one, but all I read about thenm are bad stories.

  18. #18
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    Forget all of the above. If you are seriously interested in spending that much money get a full custom seven sola ti and bling it out with fancy parts. Although you really need to consider your weight carefully when selecting parts.

    A custom made ti hardtail is a bike you will enjoy for the rest of your life. It will also hold up far better in the occasional spill than anything made of carbon.

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