SRAM XX Gripshift shifters- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    SRAM XX Gripshift shifters

    How would you feel if Sram launched XX Gripshifter?
    Would you like it?
    Would you not?

    Let me know what you think about the idea.

  2. #2
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    100% for the idea....no 1000% for it!!

    I'm gripshift anyhow, so being able to have really good kit with my favorite shifter would be just great

  3. #3
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    Let's put it this way.

    No gripshift--- no XX for me.

    Got that Sram??

  4. #4
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    For me there's two issues with going XX on the drivetrain.

    1. That cassette costs $328!!!
    2. No Gripshift

    I guess I could get used to triggers, but still no way I'll spend that kind of money on a cassette. I think the price of XTR is already very extravagant.

    Anyway, I would defintely be interested in XX twisters, especially if they figured out a way to make them even lighter (I for one would not mind if they were about 15-20mm shorter).
    Rigid bikes FTW!

  5. #5
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    +1, see my post on the other thread.

  6. #6
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    i too would love to see xx gripshift.

  7. #7
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    I'm definitely in for XX gripshift shifters. I won't go XX if it means switching to trigger shifters.

  8. #8
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    I'd really only need to see a rear grip shifter. A small simple light "on/off" shifter for the front would be fine. I love my gripshift, but I would not mind pushing a lever and a button (like their fork lock outs) for front shifting duties on a 2x set up.

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  9. #9
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    Ditto. I'd love to see XX gripshift. Trigger shifters make me hesitate. Gripshift would make me jump for the group.

  10. #10
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    if XX gripshifters existed i would be so deliriously happy i would seriously consider purchasing an XX drivetrain (when the prices come down that is)

    especially:
    if XX gripshifters were lighter than XO or Attack (sub 150g)
    1/3 narrower
    without useless gear indicator windows
    with lighter/smaller cable adjusters
    having 2 different grip size options for riders with smaller hands (like SRAM Amy)

    are you santa then Ron?

  11. #11
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    Heh, I would go against the flow. I don't care about gripshifts. Triggers are fast enough, accuarate and shifting is totally effortless compared to "grips".

  12. #12
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    Gripshift XX ++++

    You'd think SRAM would "dance with the one they brung". Gripshift essentially got them in the"componentry" door and launched their success.

  13. #13
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    Yes!!!!!! Please!!!!

  14. #14
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    I would be more pleased if they made XX level components in 9 speed. I don't really need a 10 speed cassette on a mountain bike.

    I would like to see the X0 grip shifters without the window to drop some useless weight.

  15. #15
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    Moved to X.O grip in 2005, and would never go back.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slowly
    Let's put it this way.

    No gripshift--- no XX for me.

    Got that Sram??
    My sentiments exactly

  17. #17
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    I will never use another type of shifter. I think Sram needs to have XX twisters.

  18. #18
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    What Slowly said. Short answer. Yes.

  19. #19
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    I tried...

    to restrain myself here, but I can no longer sit this discussion out. I have used twist shifters, and I cannot find any reason to prefer them over a well designed trigger setup. Trigger shifters work so much better than twisters-it is much easier to shift gears with triggers while braking (such as is necessary for downshifting into a corner to facilitate accelerating out) especially in rough conditions when keeping a good grip on the bar is necessary. Additionally, using a twist shifter puts the wrist in an awkward position, that can lead to a loss of control, or even lead to an injury in rough conditions.
    I can only surmise that those who prefer twisters have never lived with a well designed trigger, like current XTR, for long enough to learn how superior it is. XTR triggers can upshift two cogs in one quick push of the thumb, and downshift three cogs in another push; at the same time one can be perfectly controlling the brake with the forefinger, and all this can be done while maintaining a firm grip on the bars between the palm and remaining three fingers.
    Yes, with twisters one can dump the entire cassette at once, but when is this necessary? A shift of this range is better accomplished on the front derailleur. There is no valid reason to prefer twisters over well designed triggers, and SRAM has acknowledged that fact by not offering XX twisters.
    As for the price, come on, of course it is expensive. XX offers lighter weight and better performance than other groups, with better gearing options, of course it is going to cost more. The star of this group is the cassette, it is expensive, but it is also made of steel (with the exception of the individually replaceable large cog) so it should last considerably longer than comparable cassettes made of titanium. With frequent chain replacement I would expect XX cassettes to last at least a couple of seasons under heavy use.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by barrows
    to restrain myself here, but I can no longer sit this discussion out. I have used twist shifters, and I cannot find any reason to prefer them over a well designed trigger setup. Trigger shifters work so much better than twisters-it is much easier to shift gears with triggers while braking (such as is necessary for downshifting into a corner to facilitate accelerating out) especially in rough conditions when keeping a good grip on the bar is necessary. Additionally, using a twist shifter puts the wrist in an awkward position, that can lead to a loss of control, or even lead to an injury in rough conditions.
    I can only surmise that those who prefer twisters have never lived with a well designed trigger, like current XTR, for long enough to learn how superior it is. XTR triggers can upshift two cogs in one quick push of the thumb, and downshift three cogs in another push; at the same time one can be perfectly controlling the brake with the forefinger, and all this can be done while maintaining a firm grip on the bars between the palm and remaining three fingers.
    Yes, with twisters one can dump the entire cassette at once, but when is this necessary? A shift of this range is better accomplished on the front derailleur. There is no valid reason to prefer twisters over well designed triggers, and SRAM has acknowledged that fact by not offering XX twisters.
    As for the price, come on, of course it is expensive. XX offers lighter weight and better performance than other groups, with better gearing options, of course it is going to cost more. The star of this group is the cassette, it is expensive, but it is also made of steel (with the exception of the individually replaceable large cog) so it should last considerably longer than comparable cassettes made of titanium. With frequent chain replacement I would expect XX cassettes to last at least a couple of seasons under heavy use.
    Funny, I disagree with you for almost the same reasons you have provided. The grip shift is easier to tune, easier to use, and just makes more sense. To each his own I guess. But I don't think you can make general comments like you have stated here.

    As for Sram not producing XX grip shifters, I don't think that shows acknowledgement that grip shifters are inferior. Triggers are much more expensive and I would argue that this decision is driven by revenue rather then need.

  21. #21
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    I share no love for triggers, constant half shifts and having to shift down and then back up 1 to get the derailler into the proper gear and not be stuck in the middle. I'll never go back to triggers. I run X.0 twists w/ X.0 RD. and XTR FD.

    Shifting is faster, smoother and I never have accidental shifts like on triggers. Seemed liek no matter what position on the bar I'd hit the triggers in technical climbs.
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  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by DavidR1
    As for Sram not producing XX grip shifters, I don't think that shows acknowledgement that grip shifters are inferior. Triggers are much more expensive and I would argue that this decision is driven by revenue rather then need.
    Exactly. They can charge way more for triggers than they can for twisters based on the price points they've already established for their X.0 level products. Funny because I don't really care if they jack the cost of the top end GS for no particular reason, since relative to the cost of purchasing a whole new XX drivetrain it's small potatoes anyhow.

    Another no GS = no XX for me vote.

  23. #23
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    Gripshift would make me more interested in XX, but until I completely run out of XT level 8spd cassettes for my 2x8 I'm not in the drivetrain market.

    Triggers are cool (kinda), but when I'm miles and miles from trialhead I'll take the simplicity and robust, mud, bent hanger, soiled chain tolerance of gripshift. Not to mention they're super light

  24. #24
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    no thanks...I tried all of them but preferred these shifters, Shimano's dual control, and SRAM or Shimano triggers.

  25. #25
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    I feel your guys pain with corporation taking away a thing you like - but do not share it I can not use grip shifters. My wrists object. Extremely uncomfortable. Anyway, after Shadow came out I am not looking back into SRAM land. Works quite fine with XTR triggers.

  26. #26
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    had shadow XTR and it worked well enough. gripshift is what i now run and like it more.

    as for the gear indicators, i actually use the front one sometimes in races. gives me a faster indication if my chain is rubbing as to which way to adjust the FD one click (without accidentally shifting off the middle ring one way or the other)

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by whybotherme
    as for the gear indicators, i actually use the front one sometimes in races. gives me a faster indication if my chain is rubbing as to which way to adjust the FD one click (without accidentally shifting off the middle ring one way or the other)
    Totally agree. I smashed the crap out of window cover (it's in little pieces back on the trail somewhere) plus indicator arrow on my front X.0 grip shift a few weeks back during a race, and for the remaining 2 stages plus rides since that time it's been a major PITA for that very reason. Rear I could do without more easily, especially on 2x9 where all gear combos are 'safe".

    Other than the indicator it still shifts perfectly though.

  28. #28
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    I'm sorry sluflyer06?

    'constant half shifts and having to shift down and then back up 1 to get the derailler into the proper gear and not be stuck in the middle'

    It's just like twists. Shift once, either twist or trigger, and the the derailler moves once. Twice, and it moves twice.

    The only 'half shifts' should be on the trim for the front twister.

    Sounds like you were riding a poorly set up bike Don't dismiss it just off one ride.

    As for the discussion, I'm all for the variey. I like triggers personally, but would love to how SRAM would pimp a set of twisters.

  29. #29
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    As for Sram not producing XX grip shifters, I don't think that shows acknowledgement that grip shifters are inferior. Triggers are much more expensive and I would argue that this decision is driven by revenue rather then need.
    I seriously doubt it is the price difference between the 2 that was the deciding factor.

    Most companies use logic when deciding wether to make certain products. My guess would be that in order to make them better and lighter than the xo shifters it would cost a good bit of money and that they more than likely weighed out the amount they would sell compared to the cost to design and produce new ones and the numbers they needed just were not there.

    I don't think the MAN is trying to get you down by not making grip shift. I do believe if enough people ask for it you might see it in the future. When Sram does decide to make them I am willing to bet their profit margin will be the same as the triggers so I don't think they are going to short change themselves.

  30. #30
    STS
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    But don't you understand the marketing move of SRAM???

    they will not make gripshift until they sell enough of the trigger version
    that way they sell to lot of people twice

    is very common here in europe y lot of products:
    ex.: new cars models begin only with gasoline engines, and after 1 year they begin to sell the diesel version (in europe 70% of the cars are diesel)

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slim83
    I seriously doubt it is the price difference between the 2 that was the deciding factor.

    Most companies use logic when deciding wether to make certain products. ...
    Thats correct but incomplete.
    Most companies use focus groups, sales projections & marketing stategies to compare/assess potential products for development.

    This info is compiled by marketing departments, which from what I've seen, have developed their own unique flavour of "logic". Then interpretations and decisions are made taking into account market share, bottom line profitability and perhaps future directions of product line.

    It doesn't seem to me a huge stretch to imagine that sram determined gripshift as being harder to market for being a bit boring compared to the whiz bang-ness of "new" triggers. As to the bottom line profitability, if it's harder to market and sell then it's harder to get profit from them.

    thats my guess anyway, but I work in design & engineering depts and have a "" view of what happens in marketing departments.

  32. #32
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    Who is SRAM competing with in the gripshift market?

    They continue to develop their triggers to capture more market share from Shimano.

    Maybe if research shows everyone leaving gripshift trend towards Shimano they might be motivated.

    I saw the XX rear and front derailleur in person yesterday and was tremendously underwhelmed. It looked weird rather than cool. If functionally and performance wise it is better than sliced bread I might bite, but looks alone definitely didn't make me reach for my wallet.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by kark
    Thats correct but incomplete.
    Most companies use focus groups, sales projections & marketing stategies to compare/assess potential products for development.

    This info is compiled by marketing departments, which from what I've seen, have developed their own unique flavour of "logic". Then interpretations and decisions are made taking into account market share, bottom line profitability and perhaps future directions of product line.

    It doesn't seem to me a huge stretch to imagine that sram determined gripshift as being harder to market for being a bit boring compared to the whiz bang-ness of "new" triggers. As to the bottom line profitability, if it's harder to market and sell then it's harder to get profit from them.

    thats my guess anyway, but I work in design & engineering depts and have a "" view of what happens in marketing departments.
    You have more experience than me. Hopefully they do release it soon and don't price gouge the hell out of it.

  34. #34
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    I want to keep using gripshift shifters. I think Sram needs to have XX twisters.
    If they do, I will change for 10s, to have the 36t cassete.
    With 27/ 40 it will be better for some "special tracks".

  35. #35
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    XX needs gripshift option.

  36. #36
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    YES!!! I would make the purchase of the XX Groupo, if there SRAM made an XX Gripshift. Even if it weighed more than the trigger shifts. My Vote.....YES!!!

  37. #37
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    Another XO user here that would buy XX straight away if it were available in gripshift!

    On another note.. really wish they offered XX as a right hand shifter only option aswell, plenty of people out there using 1x9 or 1x10 these days.....


  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by bike_freak
    Another XO user here that would buy XX straight away if it were available in gripshift!

    On another note.. really wish they offered XX as a right hand shifter only option aswell, plenty of people out there using 1x9 or 1x10 these days.....
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  39. #39
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    I'll buy XX if there are some XX gripshifters.
    Does anyone know if there exist NOBU Shifters for 10 speed? They don't have to be sram, I just need light!! 10spd gripshifters!
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  40. #40
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    I'd go XX if there were a gripshift option but not until. May have to horde up on XO gripshifters if this is an indicator of future trends with SRAM.

  41. #41
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    XX is a joke given the replacement costs of the components. You would think 10 speed was some new revolutionary invention that they can charge such $$. Insane.

    I switched to twists this year and could never imagine going back.

  42. #42
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    I just got a new bike and had to go with XO again. I would have loved to get XX if Gripshift was available for it.

  43. #43
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    I would love it. I was mortified when I heard the gripshift might get dropped. My wife and I both were trying to figure out how we would ever change gears again. The horror.
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  44. #44
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    can't the X0 gripshifts be modded quite easily to adapt to the XX's 10 speed cassette?

    I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that one of the top WC guys had this done... Absalon maybe?

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  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by MI_canuck
    can't the X0 gripshifts be modded quite easily to adapt to the XX's 10 speed cassette?

    I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that one of the top WC guys had this done... Absalon maybe?
    i don't know how easy that could be...

    assuming the distance between gears is different, you would need a new shifter body with different spacing between the "teeth" that the spring engages. (provides detent for gear selection)

  46. #46
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    No XX for me with triggers!!

    But you don't need the ultra expensive XX at all to be able to run 10s anyway:

    Just for testing of my new 10s titanium cassettes i installed a Shimano 10s STI shifter...it worked like a charm BUT i just got to like my grip-shifters over the past couple years! The shifting with grip-shifters is so much more intuitive and faster. The grip-shifters are lighter too...what else could we ask for. Me too i cannot understand SRAMs reasoning here. What i can tell is that at least half or more of the guys using SRAM use Grip-shifters. It can't be that hard to make the modification to the mold to make the twisters 10s...i sure hope anyone else (like Microshift) jumps onto the occasion and offers a 10s compatible twist-shifter.

    Shown below:
    Shimano SL-R770 (10s, right side only) standard: 129g / without gear display and with Al-bolt: 115g

    So all you need is that right-hand Shimano shifter and a 10s cassette and chain....this converts your bike into 10s at a fraction of the cost!


    Here's the original 10s thread:
    http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=532561
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by nino; 10-20-2009 at 08:52 PM.

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by nino
    But you don't need the ultra expensive XX at all to be able to run 10s anyway...So all you need is that right-hand Shimano shifter and a 10s cassette....this converts your bike into 10s at a fraction of the cost!
    I'd actually prefer not to go 10s, but it's the wide gearing range of XX that I want with 2x front chainring setup. For example the 11-36 rear with either the 26/39 or 28/42 rings. Different people may have different needs, but either of those would be amazing ranges for 99% of the riding and racing I do. Just slam it in a gear and go, without worrying about pushing the limits of cross chaining and chainline.

    If SRAM had delivered this wide gearing range in a 2x9 I would be even happier, but I suppose they need to make their $$$ off of us and couldn't do so by introducing it as 9s that was compatible with all their existing stuff. I realize my suggestion means larger jumps between rear cogs with 11-36 9s but that's fine for me. With the trails I ride, when I want to shift I usually want a noticeable difference in ratio, not some tiny incremental ratio change. YMMV.

  48. #48
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    sram too has a 10 speed similar to one posted by Nino

    but what about rear derailleur compatiblity ?

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by eliflap
    sram too has a 10 speed similar to one posted by Nino

    but what about rear derailleur compatiblity ?
    The Shimano shifter i show above costs a fraction of the XX shifters, it allows you to use any Shimano derailleur and paired to non-XX 10s cassettes this is MUCH cheaper than XX.

    I personally don't see the need for that huge range 36 cassette at all. 34 is more than i would need and if that isn't sufficient you could always go down a teeth on the chainrings.

    BUT:
    XX cranksets come with a custom BCD where your chainring/gearing options are pretty much limited.XX chainrings again cost a fortune too and the crankset itself isn't lightweight at all.

    A lightweight double crankset with a more common BCD allows you to adapt chainring sizes according to your needs. Paired to a closer spaced 10s cassette like 11-32 or 11-34 this gives you all the gears you might ever need---> cheaper AND lighter too

    Did i already mention that i am using that 10s Shimano-shifter with a 167g / 11-32 / 10s cassette with a 143g DA derailleur? That's a LOT lighter than XX.

    Pricing of those XX-parts is just insane. You might get your hands on it by buying a complete bike equipped with XX but once parts wear out you get ripped off...

  50. #50
    FIRENZE rulez !!
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    oh...i not agree with Sram to choose 120-80 BCD .....

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by nino
    I personally don't see the need for that huge range 36 cassette at all. 34 is more than i would need and if that isn't sufficient you could always go down a teeth on the chainrings.

    A lightweight double crankset with a more common BCD allows you to adapt chainring sizes according to your needs. Paired to a closer spaced 10s cassette like 11-32 or 11-34 this gives you all the gears you might ever need---> cheaper AND lighter too
    Any specific suggestions for a drivetrain (9s or 10s) with 2 ring front setup that will have equivalent low gearing to a 26f x 36r, with external BB, and all gears available without worrying about excessive cross-chaining?

  52. #52
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    why not just go with a 9sp 11-34 rear with 24/36 front rings

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  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by MI_canuck
    why not just go with a 9sp 11-34 rear with 24/36 front rings
    Could do that. 36x11 top gear probably a little smaller than ideal.

    Any suggestions for crank/rings, with external BB that would give a good enough chainline to use all gears, at a reasonable weight?

  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Circlip
    Could do that. 36x11 top gear probably a little smaller than ideal.

    Any suggestions for crank/rings, with external BB that would give a good enough chainline to use all gears, at a reasonable weight?
    easy - Lightning carbon

    Mine is 520g with 27/40

  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by nino
    easy - Lightning carbon

    Mine is 520g with 27/40
    27 x 34 not low enough for me. Big climbs here, some of which are very steep. If they produce a 2-ring 104/64 spider for the Lightning cranks as you mention you are trying to get them to do in the other thread, that may be an option, as I need rings with a good setup of ramps and pins.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Circlip
    27 x 34 not low enough for me. Big climbs here, some of which are very steep. If they produce a 2-ring 104/64 spider for the Lightning cranks as you mention you are trying to get them to do in the other thread, that may be an option, as I need rings with a good setup of ramps and pins.
    No problem- the Lightning 64/104 spider can be mounted the other way round for 2 chainring use.

    the 64 inner BCD allows you to choose chainrings as small as you possibly want.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Circlip
    Could do that. 36x11 top gear probably a little smaller than ideal.
    Looking at the gear calculator on Sheldon Brown's site, it seems that a 36x11 would net you about 25-28mph (depending on if you ride a 26er or 29er) @ 100rpms... I'd be willing to "sacrifice" going any faster than that
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  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrea138
    Looking at the gear calculator on Sheldon Brown's site, it seems that a 36x11 would net you about 25-28mph (depending on if you ride a 26er or 29er) @ 100rpms... I'd be willing to "sacrifice" going any faster than that
    40x11 allows me to pedal up to ca. 52-55 km/h (32-34 mph) which is fast enough for my needs.
    Last edited by nino; 10-20-2009 at 01:39 PM.

  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrea138
    Looking at the gear calculator on Sheldon Brown's site, it seems that a 36x11 would net you about 25-28mph (depending on if you ride a 26er or 29er) @ 100rpms... I'd be willing to "sacrifice" going any faster than that
    True enough in most situations, but I participate in some marathon races that not only have some demanding climbs, but also some fast flat or mildly descending fireroads where 25mph at 100rpm on a 26er could actually have me spat off the back off the group I'm riding with. You know from your road racing background that's not something you want to happen if you're in with the "right" crowd.

  60. #60
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    Oh, well that's simple to fix... your wheels are just too small
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  61. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrea138
    Oh, well that's simple to fix... your wheels are just too small
    Could be. Maybe a 36er is the key to solving all my problems.

    http://twentynineinches.com/2007/02/...ext-big-thing/

    After all, no one really needs to continue suffering along on those 29er kiddie-size wheels.

  62. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by nino



    Did i already mention that i am using that 10s Shimano-shifter with a 167g / 11-32 / 10s cassette with a 143g DA derailleur? That's a LOT lighter than XX.
    Wait, you mean that alum cassette you sell that lasts 150 miles?
    yea, i bet that XX made of STEEL lasts the same.

    not everybody gets replacement parts every other day buddy, some of us even ride the same parts for a few years!

  63. #63
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    all these mechanical gear talk makes me think about the DiXTR group coming soon....?

  64. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by nino
    The Shimano shifter i show above costs a fraction of the XX shifters, it allows you to use any Shimano derailleur and paired to non-XX 10s cassettes this is MUCH cheaper than XX.

    I personally don't see the need for that huge range 36 cassette at all. 34 is more than i would need and if that isn't sufficient you could always go down a teeth on the chainrings.

    BUT:
    XX cranksets come with a custom BCD where your chainring/gearing options are pretty much limited.XX chainrings again cost a fortune too and the crankset itself isn't lightweight at all.

    A lightweight double crankset with a more common BCD allows you to adapt chainring sizes according to your needs. Paired to a closer spaced 10s cassette like 11-32 or 11-34 this gives you all the gears you might ever need---> cheaper AND lighter too

    Did i already mention that i am using that 10s Shimano-shifter with a 167g / 11-32 / 10s cassette with a 143g DA derailleur? That's a LOT lighter than XX.

    Pricing of those XX-parts is just insane. You might get your hands on it by buying a complete bike equipped with XX but once parts wear out you get ripped off...
    Very Good Points. Thanks!!! I really liked the 11-32 rear and 30/45 front, but replacement costs are going to be expensive. Might just go w/ XTR w/ X.0 Rear derailleur and X.0 grip shifts. Good post. Thanks,
    Kevin

  65. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hand/of/Midas
    Wait, you mean that alum cassette you sell that lasts 150 miles?
    yea, i bet that XX made of STEEL lasts the same.
    I'm pretty sure Nino is referring to the Ti cassettes that he's been selling for the last little while. I've been running them for the last 2 years or so, and I have no trouble with wear. Not any more than the XTR or XT cassettes that I used before anyhow.

  66. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by wannabeRacer
    all these mechanical gear talk makes me think about the DiXTR group coming soon....?

    electric kits are so stupid. why take something as pure as riding a bike and ruin it.

  67. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hand/of/Midas
    electric kits are so stupid. why take something as pure as riding a bike and ruin it.
    because that is what humans specialize in.

    i have not ridden Di2, but have heard from reliable sources that it is pretty amazing from a shifting perspective.

  68. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hand/of/Midas
    Wait, you mean that alum cassette you sell that lasts 150 miles?
    Not aluminium - titanium! They last about on par with XTR but are lighter and much cheaper than XX.

    Anyway - i just tried to show alternative ways to be able to run 10s. You don't need to spend a fortune on XX-parts to do this. The 10s shifter i showed is around 50$, the cassette is cheaper too. "My" way also offers the option of free choice of chainrings up front. Today there's a lot of options to convert existing cranks into double cranks too so you might not even need to change your current cranks to convert to 2x10 ---->Lighter and more options for less money.
    Last edited by nino; 10-20-2009 at 09:50 PM.

  69. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Circlip
    Could be. Maybe a 36er is the key to solving all my problems.

    http://twentynineinches.com/2007/02/...ext-big-thing/

    After all, no one really needs to continue suffering along on those 29er kiddie-size wheels.
    I know, right?!? Am I tall enough to ride one of those?
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  70. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hand/of/Midas
    electric kits are so stupid. why take something as pure as riding a bike and ruin it.
    because as human can do it, and I can't wait to ride my bicycles in the mountains of the moon or mars

  71. #71
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    GripShift or nothing. I won't own triggers.

  72. #72
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    Does grip shift ever wear out or break in a crash? It's too bad lots of products never make it to market because they were done right the first time - like 8 speed grip shifters!

  73. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by B R H
    Does grip shift ever wear out or break in a crash? It's too bad lots of products never make it to market because they were done right the first time - like 8 speed grip shifters!
    From my experience, grip shifters are the least likely to break or wear out of all the shifters out there. I still have an original late 1990s SCACHS 8 speed shifters that work like new (well almost, they are at least 10 years old). I switched back to grip shifters because I kept breaking my X.0 shifters.

  74. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by B R H
    Does grip shift ever wear out or break in a crash? It's too bad lots of products never make it to market because they were done right the first time - like 8 speed grip shifters!
    Well, I can definitely speak from experience. I had a set of Grip shifters on my old Diamondback DBR seven speed. Through multiple crashes, after nine years, no problem. In 2005 I purchased my Titus Switchblade w/ Grip Shifts, nine speed, and through crashes and rides in Utah, Colorado, Oregon, California, I have had ZERO problems. They are simple, easy, and accurate, and light, that's why i want them again. I can never go back to thumb/finger shifters. Just my experience over 14 years. Did I mention nothing happened to them after some really nasty crashes!!!

  75. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by barrows
    Trigger shifters work so much better than twisters-it is much easier to shift gears with triggers while braking....at the same time one can be perfectly controlling the brake with the forefinger, and all this can be done while maintaining a firm grip on the bars....
    I just have to add here that motorcycles have the throttle on the right side as well as the front brake. It is absolutely common to gas it during hard braking. Those who ever watched a MotoGP race know how this looks like when they do those nice close-up views of either the gas- or brake-hand. You need only 1 finger on the brakes so you sure have enough grip and movement in your hand to control either the throttle on a motorcycle or some little twist for shifting on a bike!

    Guys using Grip-shift don't brake with their heels nor do they have to wait for shifting while cornering

    Me too i was a STI-believer for many,many years. But now i have a hard time going back to triggers.
    Last edited by nino; 10-24-2009 at 01:33 AM.

  76. #76
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    That was basically my point. I've had the same 8-speed GripShift for many years thru lots of crashes & lots of miles. ZERO trouble whatsoever, unlike any trigger shifter I've had. Sometimes a product is made so well that once the market is saturated, sales plummet making it appear as though there is no longer any demand!

  77. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by B R H
    Does grip shift ever wear out or break in a crash? It's too bad lots of products never make it to market because they were done right the first time - like 8 speed grip shifters!
    I bought my Sram 9.0SL grip shifters in 1999 and I haven't had to replace them or any part of them, yet.

  78. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by f3rg
    I bought my Sram 9.0SL grip shifters in 1999 and I haven't had to replace them or any part of them, yet.

    Ditto, and they work great with the current xo x9 stuff.
    G
    You can't depend on honest answers from dependant hands...

  79. #79
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    All these positive reviews of grip shifters, along with many friends that said they'd never go back to triggers, has made me just too curious that I'm taking the plunge... X0 twist shifters on the way!

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  80. #80
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    Beware that the "lower" level grip shifters are preferred by many because they use a smaller diameter grip - "Amy" grip. Maybe originally for smaller hands, but mine are bigger than normal & I much prefer Amy grip. Matches the size of my bar grips perfectly.

  81. #81
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    Let me say 2010 gripshift must be around 150g and for 9v-10v . I dont need an x0 not improved .

  82. #82
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    SRAM *has* to be working on a XX gripshift as we speak... it just makes too much sense... They gotta know full well how much they are loved by many, and racers especially...

    I'm thinking they're just chosing not to release *everything* XX all at once to leave something fresh for next season... Same like the cassette... it's dubbed '1070'... meaning there is still room left for a '1090'... I'm gonna predict SRAM releases some XX gripshifts and a 1090 cassette at one of the next big shows like Sea Otter or Interbike...

    I'm even thinking the OP works for SRAM or has some affiliation... he's probing us...

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  83. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by MI_canuck
    Same like the cassette... it's dubbed '1070'... meaning there is still room left for a '1090'...
    Room for a $500 cassette?

    Will there be a company brave enough to get back to high end 8-speed drivetrain? 2x8 that is. Probably not..

  84. #84
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    No, they'll drop the price of the 1070 and then release the 1090 at the $300 pricepoint... Will be all titanium...

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  85. #85
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    Good job!

    Look what the Fedex man dropped off today...

    Not XX obviously, but still stoked... can't wait to try them out!



    Last edited by LCW; 10-28-2009 at 11:42 AM.

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  86. #86
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    Very Nice, Congratulations!!! I've had my X.0 grip shifts for five years, wish they looked as new as yours looks. Very Sweet. You're going to love them.

    Kevin

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    No...

    Quote Originally Posted by Curmy
    Room for a $500 cassette?

    Will there be a company brave enough to get back to high end 8-speed drivetrain? 2x8 that is. Probably not..
    That would not be brave, it would be foolish form a business perspective.
    Those who really desire 8 speed that badly are few, and they can cobble together an 8 speed set up with some searching and ingenuity.

  88. #88
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    you...

    Quote Originally Posted by Circlip
    Could do that. 36x11 top gear probably a little smaller than ideal.

    Any suggestions for crank/rings, with external BB that would give a good enough chainline to use all gears, at a reasonable weight?
    Could use a Rotor Agilis or the new 3D. These use standard external BBs and specific 2x9,10 cranksets with appropriate chainlines. On my 2 x 9 setup with the Agilis the big ring accesses all gears and the small ring accesses all but the the smallest two cogs. These cranks run 74-110 bcd 5 arm, so you can run inner rings down to 24. I am running 26-40 TA rings on mine.

  89. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by barrows
    Those who really desire 8 speed that badly are few, and they can cobble together an 8 speed set up with some searching and ingenuity.
    Those who really need 10 speed are fewer. They just do not know that.

    I would not rule that out. Look at Canon shipping some of their new flagship compact camera with less megapixels then the previous generation.

  90. #90
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    I agree. Even 9 speed is nothing but trouble in any real amount of dirt/mud. I like to actually feel a difference when I shift gears. Traded 9 speed for 8 years ago - no comparison. Sure glad I stocked up on 8 speed XTR cassettes. They're worth double what I paid for them now!

  91. #91
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    Just to be clear...

    Quote Originally Posted by Curmy
    Those who really need 10 speed are fewer. They just do not know that.

    I would not rule that out. Look at Canon shipping some of their new flagship compact camera with less megapixels then the previous generation.
    I said "desire", big difference to "need". Companies need to produce what people desire, despite what they actually need.
    I need 9 speed for my riding in combination with two rings up front, and ten would be better, as the 11-34 cassette has slightly bigger steps than I would really like.
    With a triple, I would not expect anyone to need ten speeds. Perhaps 12-27 8 speed would be adequate as well-but I much prefer the simplicity, better chainline, and lighter weight of two rings up front.
    Of course, your needs could be totally different from mine. I love the fact that 10 speed XX is available as it just offers more choices in gearing.

  92. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by MI_canuck
    Look what the Fedex man dropped off today...

    Not XX obviously, but still stoked... can't wait to try them out!
    Hmm... new packaging.

  93. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by barrows
    I said "desire", big difference to "need". .
    I know, I have switched the verb deliberately. But we have digressed. I bet there will be spiffy new overpriced XX grip shifters for all of us who confuse desire with need.

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    I just got my new set, man....forgot how crisp shifting can be with new components!
    Awesome!

    I called Sram and asked about XX grip shift.......had this lady on the phone who told me it was due to ergonomical issues with the brake levers and rider hands.....

  95. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by yellowbook
    I called Sram and asked about XX grip shift.......had this lady on the phone who told me it was due to ergonomical issues with the brake levers and rider hands.....
    she was throwing you a curve ball

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  96. #96
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    Good job!

    Quote Originally Posted by yellowbook
    I just got my new set, man....forgot how crisp shifting can be with new components!
    Awesome!
    Indeed! I just installed mine tonight...

    Still waiting for my shorty grips but still HAD to take it out for a spin ... Wow!!... MUCH quicker shifting than I was expecting... Nice and snappy as you expect from SRAM... Didn't even need any real adjustments in switching from the X9 triggers - they just worked right away... I do have to get used to the direction in which to rotate them (these are my first gripshifts), but otherwise I'm pretty stoked! Will be taking them out for a real ride tomorrow

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  97. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by amillmtb
    Hmm... new packaging.
    Sticker on back had '2009 wk 29' so they are fairly recent... mid July '09

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  98. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by MI_canuck
    Sticker on back had '2009 wk 29' so they are fairly recent... mid July '09
    They had the clear plastic boxes when I got mine in May.

  99. #99
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    Remember the 2004 simulated carbon XOs

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    I've still got 2 sets of them!!!

    I've regripped one pair, and I should update the others. Mine are showing some wear as I've damaged the clear gear indicator cover.

  101. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jake Pay
    Remember the 2004 simulated carbon XOs

    SRAM should make some gripshifts with housings out of real carbon... Those would be super light! Would be worthy of Blackbox.

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  102. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by amillmtb
    They had the clear plastic boxes when I got mine in May.
    And oddly... the SRAM rubber grips that are included with the X0 gripshits aren't even shortys (ie. 90mm) - they are full length 105mm grips... Seem kinda silly as that would put the twist grip and brake levers waaaay too far inboard

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  103. #103
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    Good job!

    Installed! Lock grips came in today. Riding after work...


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    Quote Originally Posted by yellowbook
    I just got my new set, man....forgot how crisp shifting can be with new components!
    Awesome!

    I called Sram and asked about XX grip shift.......had this lady on the phone who told me it was due to ergonomical issues with the brake levers and rider hands.....
    Really? Does anyone use gripshifts with Elixer levers??
    Doesn't seem like that would be any different.

  105. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by bhsavery
    Really? Does anyone use gripshifts with Elixer levers??
    Doesn't seem like that would be any different.
    See my pics just above

    No issues with Elixirs... just had to rotate the gripshifts more... So I can't see the '9' mark... no biggie... But if definitely works and works WELL!

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  106. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curmy
    I bet there will be spiffy new overpriced XX grip shifters for all of us who confuse desire with need.
    oh really, gripshifters for all? that would be terribly jolly

    i desire gripshifters
    i need gripshifters

    i'm a gripshifter user, i really do like gripshifters, bikes don't seem right without them

    have here in a dusty box XTR combo brake/shifters + XTR rapidfire + XO triggers - i don't like them, i use gripshifters!

    won't buy XX unless SRAM comes out with compatable gripshifters (or i suddenly become clever enough to devise a way to mod existing shifters - unlikely).










    ...but ultimately i'm not prepared to pay for any XX componants till prices come down out of the stratosphere



    weighed my XO gripshifters today 167g - dammit Jake Pay carbon look plastic is lighter afterall

  107. #107
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    "weighed my XO gripshifters today 167g - dammit Jake Pay carbon look plastic is lighter afterall"~culturesponge



    That's 82.9g for the rear gripper, 82.3g for the front..Grand total of 165.2g.......

    My SRAM XX f/d works great with a gripper


  108. #108
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    Gripshift really is amazing!!!

    Rode my first ride with them today - a bit of getting used to which direction to twist, and the shorter grips - but overall makes shifting so much more efficient I find. Especially on climbs that catch you off guard, like a blind corner at the bottom of a descent that goes right into a steep climb... The micro trim on the FD is very useful indeed (I wasn't expecting it to be but it truly is!). Also I find it keeps your thumbs securely around the bars more for better grip at all times. And the ability to dump a bunch of gears for some descents or flat sections is nice - just quicker than with a trigger.

    So yeah - I definitely think XX absolutely NEEDS to have Gripshift added to the gruppo...

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    i've used gripshift for a couple years ,i kept jamming my thumbs on trigger shifters, on my dh bike however i have xtr triggers,maybe for the braking shifts,it's just so much bouncier . I use full length clampon grips with the gripshifters, i use the .5-1 shimano compatable gripshifters because i really think shadow deraileurs stay out of trouble better than sram stuff,you should see all the gouges on my sram stuff.I don't actually break the sram deraileurs but the impacts can knock things out of aliegnment ,shimano's hit less ,therefore they stay in adjustment. I think some sort of toggle action di2 gripshift with knobs on the shifter cone for sort of a combination of thumbshift and gripshift action, with the zero pressure of electric shifting,wireless is probabely just around the corner too. I'll predict rear vision on a flight deck type of handlebar screen ,recorded with a front view too,should come in handy for those hit and runs.

  110. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by culturesponge
    i desire gripshifters
    i need gripshifters
    I was talking about desire/need for a 10-speed drivetrain. Gripshifters are obviously an ergonomics choice. I can not stand narrow grips.

    Just tried second gen dual control XT paired with Shadow and dual-ring SLX front. Very nice. No clutter.

    XX prices are ridiculous.

  111. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by MI_canuck
    Installed! Lock grips came in today. Riding after work...

    WOW!! That looks incredibly nice. Really nice!!! Congratulations!!!

  112. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curmy
    I was talking about desire/need for a 10-speed drivetrain. Gripshifters are obviously an ergonomics choice. I can not stand narrow grips.

    Just tried second gen dual control XT paired with Shadow and dual-ring SLX front. Very nice. No clutter.

    XX prices are ridiculous.
    sounds like a great set-up, precise shifts + you've not been blatanty ripped off tail chasing the latest MTB gimmick/fad

    ...11 speed XTR dual control would be nice, i'd better start saving.



    .................edit to remove ! - i must learn to emote better........
    Last edited by culturesponge; 10-30-2009 at 01:11 PM.

  113. #113
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    Good job!

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinK
    WOW!! That looks incredibly nice. Really nice!!! Congratulations!!!
    Thanks dude! Works even better than it looks!

    Santa Cruz Hightower LT
    Santa Cruz Tallboy 4


  114. #114
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    I really don't want this thread to die and I think SRAM should know that an XX gripshift would have me on 10 speed in no time.

  115. #115
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    I am new to facebook, but what abaout makeing a facebook group, see how many who joines and then tell SRAM abaout it?
    Giant Anthem X, 23 lbs and dropping....

  116. #116
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    I love my Gripshifts. I've been using some 9.0SL models since 1999 and never had a problem with them. I think that might be why Sram doesn't push them, though... they last forever and never give you a reason to buy new ones. They make a lot more money selling replacement trigger shifters.

    I'll personally never ride anything but grip shifters, period. That means my rear derailer money always goes to Sram, not Shimano, so at least they make money off me that way.

  117. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by f3rg
    I love my Gripshifts. I've been using some 9.0SL models since 1999 and never had a problem with them. I think that might be why Sram doesn't push them, though... they last forever and never give you a reason to buy new ones. They make a lot more money selling replacement trigger shifters.

    I'll personally never ride anything but grip shifters, period. That means my rear derailer money always goes to Sram, not Shimano, so at least they make money off me that way.

    Makes allot of sense. I sold my 1997 DBR to a friend, and he is still using the original gripshifts today, and they are still working great. That's 12 years and still going strong. My current bike has had the Grip shifts for 5 years. However, I am on my second X.0 derailleur!!!

    Kevin

  118. #118
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  119. #119
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  120. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colin on weightweenies.com
    And finnally for the one you've all been waiting for...
    Greg herbold told me in person that for the XX gripshifts they wanted to do them 'right' and make them sweet. And that they are being tested right now in Italy, I think is where he said. He said that they should be released sometime next year.
    SWEEEEEEET!!!!!!!!!


    P.S.

    I'm loving my X0 gripshifts that I recently migrated to from triggers about 3 weeks ago.... Hills that catch my buddies off guard are just no longer a problem for me and my gripshifts - you know the ones, where you come bombing down a downhill section with a blind corner that has a short steep climb waiting to slap you in the face...

    Santa Cruz Hightower LT
    Santa Cruz Tallboy 4


  121. #121
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    Sweet

    If this is true, I'm really stoked! Want to convert to XX, but need gripshift.

  122. #122
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    YESSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  123. #123
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    With grip shift, I'm spoiled that one twist dumps gears from low to high 3x faster than triggers. Nine speed has enjoyed the longest production run(10+ years) for any shifting group in cycling history...why change it now???

    No XX for me...not at those Shimano Yumeya prices.
    "This is a male-dominated forum... there will be lots of Testosterone sword-shaming here" ~ Kenfucius

  124. #124
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    Anybody doing 1x10 on a 29er? 11-36 x 36t was good enough for JHK...

  125. #125
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    i just got the xx drivetrain on my new 2010 s works carbon 29er and i really miss my old grip shifts, i hope they come out soon because i really like the feeling of them.

  126. #126
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    Since this is the Hail Mary of XO twisters.........

    Im building a bike for my girl but being a cheap ass and hassle free I am doing 1x9... What do you guys recommend using on the left grip and on the right grip for regular grips... I liked those ones pictured above... but I guess I would run a regular length one on the left? I end up buying 2 pairs of grips.

  127. #127
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    Buy regular foam grips and cut the right one down.

  128. #128
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    XX twisters

    I hope that the new XX twisters will have a narrower profile, I really dislike how much bar space current twisters take up. I do not need the grip part of the shifter to be anywhere near as wide as the current XO-X9 options.

  129. #129
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    Awesome news Erik$!!! Looks like my new ride will most likely have Sram XX drivetrain!!! I better start saving!!!

    Now I have to wait for two things next year, the XX gripshift and the Hope Race X2 brakes!!

    Best regards,

    Kevin

  130. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jake Pay
    Remember the 2004 simulated carbon XOs

    look here
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails SRAM XX Gripshift shifters-09112009-001-.jpg  


  131. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by eliflap
    look here

    eli, what am I lookin' at?

  132. #132
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    99-00 vintage 9.0 (might be SL) shifters.

  133. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlownCivic
    99-00 vintage 9.0 (might be SL) shifters.
    Yep, those are the 9.0SL shifters and their faux carbon weave. They look dumb, but I love mine.


  134. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jake Pay

    eli, what am I lookin' at?
    as Blown wrote, old 9.0 grips

  135. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by eliflap
    as Blown wrote, old 9.0 grips


    Those are sweet, I'd love to have a set

  136. #136
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    i have "other religion" lightweitght candies
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails SRAM XX Gripshift shifters-09112009-002-.jpg  

    SRAM XX Gripshift shifters-12072009-023-.jpg  


  137. #137
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    Sram Plamsa: for me still the best weighwise and performancewise.

    I't can't be that hard to make them 10s compatibleIf i was a mechanic or had abilitys on a CNC machine or a turning lathe i would have already produced a 10s conversion for them. I'd say it should be able to shave the inside and replace with 10s internals.

    I am really close to write Microshift a mail and ask them for a 10s gripshifter. If someone offers such a set they will sell thousands right away. I really can't understand those manufacturers. I also visited the Rohloff booth at Eurobike as by walking by i realized they had a cnc'd grip-shifter for their gear hub. When i was looking closer at their shifter they would approach me thinking i was interested in the Rohloff-Bull$hit...But when i told them that they should convert their grip-shifter into 10s and offer it as a regular 10s shifter they would look at each other. Man-they have a shifter on hand where they simply would need to change the cnc-program slightly and could make more money selling such shifters rather than their overweight hub...
    Attached Images Attached Images

  138. #138
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    Another XO user here that would buy XX if it were available in gripshift

  139. #139
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    to restrain myself here, but I can no longer sit this discussion out. I have used twist shifters, and I cannot find any reason to prefer them over a well designed trigger setup. Trigger shifters work so much better than twisters-it is much easier to shift gears with triggers while braking (such as is necessary for downshifting into a corner to facilitate accelerating out) especially in rough conditions when keeping a good grip on the bar is necessary. Additionally, using a twist shifter puts the wrist in an awkward position, that can lead to a loss of control, or even lead to an injury in rough conditions.

    I can only surmise that those who prefer twisters have never lived with a well designed trigger, like current XTR, for long enough to learn how superior it is.
    Wow, you have not spent much time on gripshifters, have you? Because as someone who has used both a lot over the years and even decided to give the newer SRAM triggers a try, I could not disagree more. Armchair analyze it all you want, but for a lot of people, grips just work better. Awkward angles making you wreck? Please stop talking utter nonsense. I would MUCH prefer to shift in the rough with grips. Please don't talk about people not knowing how to use triggers when you obviously don't know much about using twisties. You are just repeating the drivel that you always here from people who never spent the time learning to use grips.

    Sorry, but SRAM really crapped the bed on this one. I am willing to bet that they will eventually come around and offer 10 speed twisties.

  140. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by eliflap
    as Blown wrote, old 9.0 grips
    Those were the deal! I've got a set of 7.0's (identical except for color) that have been in use since 2001. A few years after I picked up another set as backup for $20. Still have them in the original box. I never understood why they stopped making them that style, they seemed simpler, and I thought they had better action as you shift than the newer models. I also have an 8 sp 9.0 set.

  141. #141
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    Gripshifts are for Girly-Men.
    FS: Everything

  142. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by ncj01
    Gripshifts are for Girly-Men.
    So that's why you use them

  143. #143
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    I have had the same set of XO gripshifters for 5 years now. They have been on 4 different bikes and no reside on my Niner Air9. I made the switch because my thumbs were getting cramped by the end of a race and ended up having to twist my wrist anyway ro make a shift. I agree with the OP. I wondered why they would release a racing weight weenie group without a revised lighter gripshift option when that is what so many of the racers have been using on the cup scene for years. They could easily get a bunch of weight out of them. I to am interested in XX with a gripshift option. I am running a 2x9 Middleburn 40/27 with XTR front XO rear with a 11-34. It works well but I would be down for one more gear in the back. And a whole bunch of weight savings.

    For Nino, sure you can do a 2x10 group right now for cheaper with some shimano bits and your cogset. That is not the issue. The real issue is the FRONT shifting with 2 rings. That is what XX addresses and is what most of SRAMS time went into. With only 2 rings up front your shifting needs to be dialed. There have been many posts in this forum about people trying a DUO up front and ditching it because they could never get it to work well with a TRIGGER shifter. The duo almost makes the Grip shift necessary with its ability to trim the front d. The XX group overcomes this because it was all designed to work together. Even still I want it with twisters please. I have done to much damage to my thumbs to ever go back to triggers. As for the dude who talked about less control with twisters, whatever works for you, some people like twisters and have adapted to the quirks. The shift while braking is an acquired skill that takes time to learn.

  144. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by 55rpmasher
    The real issue is the FRONT shifting with 2 rings.There have been many posts in this forum about people trying a DUO up front and ditching it because they could never get it to work well with a TRIGGER shifter.
    naaah-problem then is a bad chainline!
    Most people just convert triple cranksets to double be removing either the inner or outer rings which leaves you with a bad chainline! Sure your derailleurs have a hard time when you try to run the extreme gears...BUT once you have your chainline corrected front shifts also with triggers aren't a problem anymore. So the problem is not the double setup but rather a bad choice in cranks to start with. Usually you have no way to adjust chainline with all the newer intergated designs. Therefore you have to get a different crank if you want to convert to double...we had this debate in another thread already.

    BUT: Me too i'm a grip-shift user !

  145. #145
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    I can agree with that to an extent. That is why I run a 68/108 Isis bb with my middleburns. Brings it back 2.5mm over the recommended 113. However the XX front shifting is way superior as that is the way it was engineered. Every review so far claims the greatest front shifting ever, under load. I would make the switch just for that alone. Although it looks like I saw a picture of someones Superfly with 9 speed stuff in the back with an XX crank in this thread or another can't remember. Could not tell if it had the XX front d as well. I thought about trying the same thing myself that way I could still run twisters and no 10 speed chain which I would most likely break lots anyway. Anyone doing this? And how is it working? Oh yeah I agree that you need the right crank to do it. Almost for sure need to go with ISIS or square taper as most of the external bb options have a crap chainline as a triple, forget about it as a duo, unless you go 38/26 and put them in the granny/ middle position and then you still have a wide q-factor. But that is a whole other debate and I have jacked this thread to much already.
    Last edited by 55rpmasher; 12-09-2009 at 08:14 AM.

  146. #146
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    Lots, and I mean LOTS of people here (me included) have been using 10 speed chains (KMC-X10SL, etc...) for quite some time now. I personally have been using them for over 2 years now. The only thing I have ever broken is the missing link. That happened once way back in 2007. I have them on 2 bikes, and I like to grind big gears. Never had a problem at all. I also don't experience any higher wear rates than I did with 9 speed (or even 8 speed for that matter).

  147. #147
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    Don't know, guess I'm looking for validation and bumping this question

    I have tried 1x9 before and found it didn't give enough on the top or bottom. But for us non-elites, what about a 1x10 of 34t x 11-36 on a 29er? I'm betting that'd cover the spectrum of all but the steepest ups and longest downhills.

    Quote Originally Posted by TunicaTrails
    Anybody doing 1x10 on a 29er? 11-36 x 36t was good enough for JHK...

  148. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by TunicaTrails
    Don't know, guess I'm looking for validation and bumping this question

    I have tried 1x9 before and found it didn't give enough on the top or bottom. But for us non-elites, what about a 1x10 of 34t x 11-36 on a 29er? I'm betting that'd cover the spectrum of all but the steepest ups and longest downhills.
    The difference in range between an 11-34 and 11-36 is really small. It only gives you about a half a gears worth of extra range. I think if you felt that 1x9 with 11-34 was limiting, then 11-36 is not likely to work much better, the increase is VERY small.

  149. #149
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    Your all missing the point. This is the weight weenie forum....therefore you guys know that the lightest setup is single speed. And its more durable.YOU ONY NEED ONE GEAR!!!!!!

  150. #150
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    Just cut an inch or and inch and a half off the inside of the stationary black grip. That will move them back out on your bars.

    Oh! I'll never consider XX until they make a grip shift for it. Till then I'll happily run Shimano's 12-36 9 speed, even with the weight penalty.

  151. #151
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    re-bumping this thread.

    Sram - if you read this. Please make a 10 speed grip shifter!
    "The thing is, Bob, it's not that I'm lazy, it's that I just don't care."

  152. #152
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    I think sram has a master plan. The economy is going to tank again soon and that's when sram will unleash the xx sramonomics 101 super undercover recovery plan. XX sales will be so huge that the stock market will go up to 19,567,the banks will offer 45 and 60 year mortgage loans. 90% of american will own a home and unemployment will be at 0.88% and to top it all off by 2012 the world will go to a 20 hour work week so we all can ride our beloved xx grippys before the end of the world on dec 21or 22 ( I can't remember) 2012.
    I'm poor, broke,busted,disgusted and can't be trusted!




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  153. #153
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    You know, I would prefer to stick with 9 speed. I wish Sram would make a 9 speed version of the XX cassette. That is a work of art.

  154. #154
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    sram... are you listening?

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidR1
    You know, I would prefer to stick with 9 speed. I wish Sram would make a 9 speed version of the XX cassette. That is a work of art.
    Ok with that also.

    Give me a high end relatively light weight cassette with a 36 tooth cog in a 9 speed, or make some 10 speed grip shifters.

    Sram - make this happen.
    "The thing is, Bob, it's not that I'm lazy, it's that I just don't care."

  155. #155
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    If you guys read this thread, you'd know that sram is working on XX gripshifts! I talked to Greg Herbold, and he told me in person they are coming, and currently being tested.

  156. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by DavidR1
    You know, I would prefer to stick with 9 speed. I wish Sram would make a 9 speed version of the XX cassette. That is a work of art.
    Your wish is granted

    http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/sram...xg999-cassette

  157. #157
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    AND... they have released a 9 speed version of the XX cassette:

    ***Edit*** Damn you barny!



    https://forums.mtbr.com/weight-weenies/xg999-cassette-info-175g-11-32-a-589417.html

  158. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by xcbarny
    I had heard this might happen. Glad to see it will be soon

    Now, I wonder what the street price for these is going to be?

  159. #159
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    Nice....those bar-ends are even better !
    I don't need sex, life f*cks me everyday.....

  160. #160
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    If you get a finger on those during a fall... Not very smart design.

  161. #161
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    i've got a good 2x9 setup currently, but this is SWEEEEET news to FINALLY have the XX twist grips becoming reality!!!

    for an XC trail bike, I will never go back to triggers, but with 10speed taking hold, I feared twist grips were going to become a relic with people hoarding them for 9 speed... now there is 10 speed hope!!

    Santa Cruz Hightower LT
    Santa Cruz Tallboy 4


  162. #162
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    i recieved my x0 twisters this morning. i got a set of blue esi grips too...
    ...i tore off the rubber and slid on the esi which was only a 5g loss...
    whats the weight of the shifter cables?
    (all weights with cables) Front/Rear

    W/ rubber.....................101g/104g
    W/O............................89g/92g
    W/ ESI........................96g/99g
    weight lost...................7g/6g
    the total weight i saved was only 13g..
    pictures!








    my triggers weighed 252g so i lost 66g total by converting to the twisters. making my bike now 23lbs 10oz
    RAH!

  163. #163
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    GreenGiant, i love the title under your username "11 is one louder then 10" i have yet to meet someone who has seen that movie.
    RAH!

  164. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by facelessfools
    i have yet to meet someone who has seen that movie.
    Really I thought it was a cult classic.
    15mm is a second-best solution to a problem that was already solved.

  165. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by culturesponge
    if XX gripshifters existed i would be so deliriously happy i would seriously consider purchasing an XX drivetrain (when the prices come down that is)

    especially:
    if XX gripshifters were lighter than XO or Attack (sub 150g)
    1/3 narrower
    without useless gear indicator windows
    with lighter/smaller cable adjusters
    having 2 different grip size options for riders with smaller hands (like SRAM Amy)

    are you santa then Ron?
    Yes! Why isn't this obvious to SRAM, their gripshifters need to be narrower and have a smaller diameter grip option! The best gripshifters I ever had were the 8 speed X-Rays. Very narrow and small diameter. They blend right in with the grip, and you could run your grip longer.

  166. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by facelessfools
    i recieved my x0 twisters this morning. i got a set of blue esi grips too...
    ...i tore off the rubber and slid on the esi which was only a 5g loss...
    whats the weight of the shifter cables?
    (all weights with cables) Front/Rear

    W/ rubber.....................101g/104g
    W/O............................89g/92g
    W/ ESI........................96g/99g
    weight lost...................7g/6g
    the total weight i saved was only 13g..


    my triggers weighed 252g so i lost 66g total by converting to the twisters. making my bike now 23lbs 10oz
    Very clever! gripshift replacement grips are hard (almost impossible) to find, and I've been wishing I could put something thinner on my X9's.
    The ESI's don't move around at all?
    I think I would use the black ones. The color draws a lot of attention to them, and it has a bit of a Jethro Bodean home made look to it.

  167. #167
    LCW
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    I'm using ESI's with my X0 gripshifts as well (didn't change the gripshift grip though). I run the 'chunkys'... the 'race' are TOO thin...

    and they don't move around AT ALL... i used windex to install, otherwise impossible (on my FSA bars). Cushiony, but not spongy.



    Last edited by LCW; 06-26-2010 at 09:26 AM.

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  168. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by MI_canuck
    I'm using ESI's with my X0 gripshifts as well (didn't change the gripshift grip though). I run the 'chunkys'... the 'race' are TOO thin...

    and they don't move around AT ALL... i used windex to install, otherwise impossible (on my FSA bars). Cushiony, but not spongy.
    I was wondering how the ESI's worked on the grip shifter itself. I think the normal rubber grips have grooves on the underside to keep them in place, so with the ESI's they would conform to the ridges on the plastic I guess.

  169. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by smilinsteve
    I was wondering how the ESI's worked on the grip shifter itself. I think the normal rubber grips have grooves on the underside to keep them in place, so with the ESI's they would conform to the ridges on the plastic I guess.
    the X0 gripsifters has the rubber i believe glued on. i just used an exacto to remove the grip and cleaned off the plastic surface with it too. then i attached the shifter to the end of my handle bar then slid it on with a screw driver.
    The ESI grip is solid. its tight to fit around and it doesnt move at all.
    RAH!

  170. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by facelessfools
    the X0 gripsifters has the rubber i believe glued on. i just used an exacto to remove the grip and cleaned off the plastic surface with it too. then i attached the shifter to the end of my handle bar then slid it on with a screw driver.
    The ESI grip is solid. its tight to fit around and it doesnt move at all.
    I'd like to try it, but thought I could return to the regular grip if I don't like it. Sorry to hear they have to be cut off.

  171. #171
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    i was a little diapointed it isnt "removable"

    although you can order the grip assembley can by purchased for about $13 a side

    a quick google shopping search:
    http://www.treefortbikes.com/product...-Assembly.html
    RAH!

  172. #172
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    I've really enjoyed watching you build up your ride until this grip thing...

    I'll take a slight comfy gram penalty over fugly any day.....

    Of course it's simply opinion

  173. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jake Pay
    I've really enjoyed watching you build up your ride until this grip thing
    I'll take a slight comfy gram penalty over fugly any day.....

    Of course it's simply opinion
    I must admit there is some truth in what you say. I think black with black would look better. Part of the problem with the ESI's is that it is hard to cut them without the edge looking ragged. The blue and the white just makes it more noticeable. I wonder if there are other (regular rubber) grips that could be stretched on to the shifter?

  174. #174
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    i had my white ESI's first installed by the owner and he used a pipe cutter to trim them.
    im still up in the air on them.. dont know if i like it or not yet.
    RAH!

  175. #175
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    Quote Originally Posted by facelessfools
    i had my white ESI's first installed by the owner and he used a pipe cutter to trim them.
    im still up in the air on them.. dont know if i like it or not yet.
    Did you try the XO's before they went under the knife?

    Personally I've always felt comfortable with the grip...

  176. #176
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    Quote Originally Posted by facelessfools
    weight lost...................7g/6g
    nice one

    mrs culturesponge found that the XO grips were too wide for her dainty hands - when her Amy grips wear out i'll bung on some old cut-down black ESI chunky's

    ps, thought this thread was about SRAM XX (10 speed) Gripshifters aka twist shifters ...any news yet???

  177. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jake Pay
    Did you try the XO's before they went under the knife?

    Personally I've always felt comfortable with the grip...
    nope, just went for it. and i like them. looking at the whole bike i realize i like the look of the blue even though its rough around the edges.

    Quote Originally Posted by culturesponge
    nice one

    mrs culturesponge found that the XO grips were too wide for her dainty hands - when her Amy grips wear out i'll bung on some old cut-down black ESI chunky's
    it didn't lose as much weight as i would like but hey i lost some more then if i didn't! The racers edge that on there is diffidently wider then the racers edge on the bar. Using chunky's as the regular grip and racers edge may even the size gap.
    RAH!

  178. #178
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    had my first ride on them that was around 35 miles. they were set to wide so i used the remaining blue ESI to readjust them to a narrower profile.
    i always hold my bars at the very end so i had to keep releasing the grips and moving in to shift so hopefully this will feel better tomorrow.



    RAH!

  179. #179
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    for the original Q, +1 grip shift

  180. #180
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    so are these just modified XO grip shifters or actually some super-secret XX grip shift?

  181. #181
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    nothing but x0's
    RAH!

  182. #182
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    You could have destroyed x7s weighing the same as x0s

  183. #183
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    Quote Originally Posted by xcatax
    You could have destroyed x7s weighing the same as x0s
    They wouldn't say XO on them. That's what you pay for!

  184. #184
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    Quote Originally Posted by barrows
    to restrain myself here, but I can no longer sit this discussion out. I have used twist shifters, and I cannot find any reason to prefer them over a well designed trigger setup. Trigger shifters work so much better than twisters-it is much easier to shift gears with triggers while braking (such as is necessary for downshifting into a corner to facilitate accelerating out) especially in rough conditions when keeping a good grip on the bar is necessary. Additionally, using a twist shifter puts the wrist in an awkward position, that can lead to a loss of control, or even lead to an injury in rough conditions.
    I can only surmise that those who prefer twisters have never lived with a well designed trigger, like current XTR, for long enough to learn how superior it is. XTR triggers can upshift two cogs in one quick push of the thumb, and downshift three cogs in another push; at the same time one can be perfectly controlling the brake with the forefinger, and all this can be done while maintaining a firm grip on the bars between the palm and remaining three fingers.
    Yes, with twisters one can dump the entire cassette at once, but when is this necessary? A shift of this range is better accomplished on the front derailleur. There is no valid reason to prefer twisters over well designed triggers, and SRAM has acknowledged that fact by not offering XX twisters.
    As for the price, come on, of course it is expensive. XX offers lighter weight and better performance than other groups, with better gearing options, of course it is going to cost more. The star of this group is the cassette, it is expensive, but it is also made of steel (with the exception of the individually replaceable large cog) so it should last considerably longer than comparable cassettes made of titanium. With frequent chain replacement I would expect XX cassettes to last at least a couple of seasons under heavy use.
    the problem sram has is that their trigger shifter falls apart when it sees a shimano shifter. not literally but their triggers just flat out suck imho, the lever effort is heavy even with fresh cables and they feel clunky, don't even get me started on that wacky release lever

  185. #185
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    Quote Originally Posted by smilinsteve
    They wouldn't say XO on them. That's what you pay for!
    yeah no doubt

  186. #186
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    I certainly can't give up my GS, not for a 20 spd cass!!!, however, I used to run the shimano compatable sachs/sram twist with an xtr rapid rise, now that was the best. ( talk about a thin GS profile!)
    I have always said that true dream-world shifting would be a nice GS/1:1/low normal set up, and while you're at it, I'll take the 10 spds. Hell, lets have a 8-28t cass, then the front rings start getting to a decent size!

  187. #187
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    Quote Originally Posted by MI_canuck
    WTF is this dude? sorry but your post seemed to imply that you had actual XX gripshifts... but looking at your vid, clearly the shift indicator only goes up to 9 (0:05-0:08)... so this is just a modded X0 RH shifter...

    you should change the title of the post to something like 'modded X0 gripshift working with XX'....

  188. #188
    LCW
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    thought he was OP.... my bad... added EDIT to my thread... i lack reading skills obviously...

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  189. #189
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    My vote; no GripShift 10speed, no XX for me! GS is the best for racing. IMO of course.

  190. #190
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    Just heard from our SRAM sales rep... Gripshift for 10spd is definitely coming!!!

  191. #191
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    Quote Originally Posted by wickedwheels
    Just heard from our SRAM sales rep... Gripshift for 10spd is definitely coming!!!
    Interesting, I had a Sram rep in today and he said he cant say for sure, but last he heard they were being developed for possibly XX only.

  192. #192
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    Just order the SRAM TT bar end shifters and some paul's thumbies mounts people !!!

  193. #193
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeeEight
    Just order the SRAM TT bar end shifters and some paul's thumbies mounts people !!!
    Ahh... no.

  194. #194
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    I should get SRAM compatible 10s grip-shifters soon. This time the dents will be in metal and should provide precise action. I'll keep you guys updated once i get the first samples.

  195. #195
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeeEight
    Just order the SRAM TT bar end shifters and some paul's thumbies mounts people !!!
    For some reason I think the R2C shifters would be even weirder on a mountain bike than on the TT bikes they are made for.

  196. #196
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    Quote Originally Posted by amillmtb
    For some reason I think the R2C shifters would be even weirder on a mountain bike than on the TT bikes they are made for.
    Is that the version with the self-centering spring loaded ratchet action? Depending on how they're oriented as "neutral" on the thumbies adapters that could be quite an advantage I'd think. A quick tap in either direction to change gears.

  197. #197
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeeEight
    Is that the version with the self-centering spring loaded ratchet action? Depending on how they're oriented as "neutral" on the thumbies adapters that could be quite an advantage I'd think. A quick tap in either direction to change gears.
    Yep, Return 2 Center. I could see it being an advantage too, but I guess I'm just not a thumbie guy.

  198. #198
    STS
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    Quote Originally Posted by nino
    I should get SRAM compatible 10s grip-shifters soon. This time the dents will be in metal and should provide precise action. I'll keep you guys updated once i get the first samples.
    nino, there will be also metal dents update for us with the first plastic units?

    thanks

  199. #199
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    what should be the gains of metal dents?
    seriously: the complete mechanic of these dilettantish shifter is without any precision. the manufacturer has to redesign it completely new, all tolerances are to wide, all fittings are without accuracy. next is, that there seems to be no control of the cooling phase of the plastic and also no control of the injection molding phase (see at flow marks). only one point why it is impossible to produce constant precise. metal dents in this shifter is entirely useless from my point of view.

  200. #200
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    Quote Originally Posted by fastback67
    what should be the gains of metal dents?
    easy - all that you complain about

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