Racing Non-UST tires on UST rims- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Racing Non-UST tires on UST rims

    I'm considering making the switch and racing Non-UST tires on UST rims (I'm a mid-pack expert racer looking to drop some bike weight)....

    How long does it take for a Non-UST tire to seal using an 819 rim and stan's sealant??? Is this something that can be done the night before a race (without running the risk of having a tire blow off the rim)? Or, I'm a just taking a huge risk with this setup??

    Any recommendations...

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaniC
    I'm considering making the switch and racing Non-UST tires on UST rims (I'm a mid-pack expert racer looking to drop some bike weight)....

    How long does it take for a Non-UST tire to seal using an 819 rim and stan's sealant??? Is this something that can be done the night before a race (without running the risk of having a tire blow off the rim)? Or, I'm a just taking a huge risk with this setup??

    Any recommendations...
    I have run that type of setup in the past with no ill-affects. I did use Michelin tires though which are known to be a good choice for this because they are made to tight tolerances and have nice fat beads that seal very well.

    I ran the Michi Hot-S Wildgrippers on some 823's for over a year w/o a single issue and they even seated on the first try with just an air compressor. I did add some Stan's later to keep the pressure from dropping and to seal small holes etc.

    I have since gone to tires with thicker sidewalls but that's just because I moved to an area with LOTS more rocks and I was having issues with pinchflatting sidewalls etc.

    I also recently setup one of my customers with some 819 rims and a pair of Michi All-Mtn 2.2" tires. By speccing the non-ust version of the all-mtn we were able to save nearly a full pound compared to the UST version of the exact same tire. I did need to use a Co2 cartridge to get one of the tires to seat the first time but when the customer came in for follow-up maintenace I added a little more Stan's and that time both beads seated perfectly with only a floor pump. WIth folding tires the bead can develop some minor irregularities from being packaged folded up. Once the tire is seated and has had some time for the bead to reshape inflating is no harder than with a tube in most cases. To get a really stubborn first-time bead to seat sometimes I will use a tube for the first few rides while the bead "breaks in".

    For racing and for XC-orientated riding in general I say absolutely go for it. Even for heavier-duty trail riding it's still an extremely viable option.

    EDIT: Forgot to mention that SPecialized has their "2Bliss" line of tires which are UST but wiegh no more than a standard "tube type" tire.

    I have run their Enduro Pro 2.4 with great luck on all but the rockiest trails. I did have pichflatting issues when using it as a rear tire but around here I can do that to even a full-on Michelin or Maxxis DH UST tire so that's not really a surprise. I hear the Roll-X is a really nice tire if you want to try the Specialized line.
    Last edited by like_the_wheel; 09-06-2005 at 08:39 PM.

  3. #3
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    From what ive gathered, its a bit hit and miss, some have great results, some have not so great results.
    Punkassean pointed out that a fresh tyre that has been packaged rolled up will have some irregularities with the beads of the tyre.
    So a good tip is to get that fresh tyre onto your rim with a regular tube first.
    Inflate the tube so the tyre would be what you would ride normally, leave the tyre for a couple of days, or however long you have.
    It simply lets the tyre stretch and 'mould' to the shape of the rim, it makes filling up the tyre without a tube a lot easier.
    Make sure you do a search for regular tyres on UST rims, i have actually heard not so good results with the Michelin tyres, because they have a fairly loose fit.
    What you dont want, is for that tyre to come off during your race, not only will it hinder your chances, but it could cause some damage.
    Dont use any 'superlight' tyres, (under 450gm per tyre) because they are simply not designed to work without a tube.
    My best advice is to look for a slightly beefier tyre (500-600gm) that has good solid beads and thick sidewalls, since without a tube, more pressure is put on the sidewalls to support the weight.
    I have Schwalbe Albert (2.25inch) tyres on DT rims with the tubeless kit, but havent ridden so i cant comment, but the tyres are very beefy and have a solid bead.
    Just make sure you do a search for using regular tyres on UST rims, quite a few people do it, its just finding a good combo.
    Anyway, i better stop rambling!
    Good luck with your choice and the race!
    wil

  4. #4
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    I have done this for a couple of years now. Definitely use new tires and mount them up with tubes to stretch them out a bit. I would recommend staying away from Kenda tires. Every set I have has had little holes in the sidewalls that are a bugger to seal up. Have had the best success with WTB tires and my ever reliable Dart/Smoke Panaracer combo.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaniC
    I'm considering making the switch and racing Non-UST tires on UST rims (I'm a mid-pack expert racer looking to drop some bike weight)....

    How long does it take for a Non-UST tire to seal using an 819 rim and stan's sealant??? Is this something that can be done the night before a race (without running the risk of having a tire blow off the rim)? Or, I'm a just taking a huge risk with this setup??

    Any recommendations...

    It works awesome if you ask me- Infact I have my UST wheelset in my bike bag right now, with a Kenda Karma, and a Hutchinson Python Airlite; I will be using these this weekend at the Sydney N-ZO 12hr; thats why they are in the bike bag... I fly out today


    I found it takes a little time to seal the wheels, although I use homemade sealant as I am a) a tight ass, and b) it's tough to find someone that stocks stans in Australia. Apparently the Stans seals much better than my crappy latex mix, which I am still perfecting. Geenerally I seel the rim 2 days before needing it, in case I need to do it again.


    I have had no troubles though, the UST rims are quiet tight, so getting tyers on and off is tough, but generally once they are on- they stay on. I have only used a limited amount of tyers though. Maxis Highrollers (exception), Maxxis Larson TT's, Hutchy Pythons, and now Kenda Karma's. I cant imagine other tyres causing problems.
    Cul is a regretted trademark of the CulBaire Co'op Pty Ltd, as are his random ramblings and associated bullshit.

  6. #6
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    I've raced the Kenda Karma Stick E 480gram tires on my mavic cross max w/ stans latex for this entire season with no problems. They were a little difficult to seal the 1st time but no flats. I did puncture 2x but stans sealed them perfectly. Kenda Karms have very thin side walls so I perfer not to use them on courses than are extremely rocky.

  7. #7
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    No problem if you do it right. Non usts I've run on 819s:Conti Twisters(370gms), Explorer Pros, Python Airlights, Racing Ralphs 2.1,2.25s, Jimmy Lights. All with ZERO problems after 2 seasons.

    Also run the same tires on converted 717/VXCs with no probs.

    On my Stans Olympic rimmed wheelset(using no rimstrips, just tape), I DID blow a Twister off the rim after over inflating it as to seat the tire. Sorta forgot and rode it... Blammo! Note to self...don't do that.

    Karmas seem to be the easiest to seat/seal. JUST finished swap'n those out for the Twisters back on the Stans rims for this weekends race. One was a PITA to seal up, but I "got er done".

  8. #8
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    As I said I had planned on using normal tyres on UST rims for an Endurance race coming up- Well I did, and the coruse was very very rocky, and quiet rough. The setup worked very well indeed- with a Hutchinson Python Airlight on the front and a Kenda Karma on the back.
    Cul is a regretted trademark of the CulBaire Co'op Pty Ltd, as are his random ramblings and associated bullshit.

  9. #9
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    Agree. I like those larger volumn tires, especially for endurance type events on techy courses. Last year at the 24HOA, I ran a Python AL rear and Racing Ralph 2.25 up front on UST rims with sealant. Flawless. 12hour this season, same setup but with a Karma in the back. Flawless again. Right now my beater HT has your combo on it.

    Of course tomorrow I'm racing Twisters both ends on Olympic rims. Fast setup for sure, at least for this course.

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