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  1. #1
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    pink bike article

    I'm sure most of you must have seen this. Weight Weenieism goes prime time!

    https://www.pinkbike.com/news/buildi...est-29ers.html

    I still think the real work is done in the trenches on this board though.
    Last edited by slcpunk; 12-21-2017 at 08:19 AM. Reason: I didn't mean to sound snarky - I really believe that this board is where the real work is getting done.

  2. #2
    Hardtail Steel Forever
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    13.71lbs, 1x11 with front suspension, 16.16lbs FS... Dear lord.
    WTB: Med Bontrager Ti Lite, PM Me...

  3. #3
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    That's a sweet build. I'd like to see what he could do with a Rigid SS.

  4. #4
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    Thanks for the mention, and it really was great with the positive response. Especially since I took the builds quite far and the Pinkbike comment section can be quite harsh!
    But I think people appreciate a bit of humor and to see that the bikes are actually being ridden, not just built for show.

    I can tell you though that the 100+ hours of work put into the Scale alone felt real enough.
    But I think I get your point, forums are great and of course the go-to source for tips and suggestions for so many people rather than a single article can.
    So many boards to keep track of though, of course this and the Starbike/WW but then you have the french, italian, german, spanish and so on with dedicated weight weenie boards or sections.

    Lots of people have written asking questions and wanting tips/how-to's though, so seems the builds have been an inspiration to some at least.

    And of course if you have any questions as to why or how I did this or that - I'm happy to answer.


  5. #5
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    Stupid light in a good way. I wonder how much difference the paint weighed. Still would be crazy light with the paint still on. I may be able to compete on the ups with a bike that light.

  6. #6
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    Paint was 94g on the Scale if I remember correctly and just above 90g on the Spark. Then the Hopp Carbon hardware (derailleur hanger and cable ports) dropped 20g more from each frame.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by jestep View Post
    13.71lbs, 1x11 with front suspension, 16.16lbs FS... Dear lord.
    makes my Norco Olve look like a Tank ... http://forums.mtbr.com/weight-weenie...s-1033947.html

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dangerholm View Post
    Paint was 94g on the Scale if I remember correctly and just above 90g on the Spark. Then the Hopp Carbon hardware (derailleur hanger and cable ports) dropped 20g more from each frame.
    And how much with fork paint ?

  9. #9
    Nutrailer
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    At last, a bike to ride on water ☺👍

  10. #10
    Rides all the bikes!
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    With legs like that, I will give no criticism for building ULTRA WW bikes.

  11. #11
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    Lots of passion and hard work in those bikes. Makes me sad that I cant ride a bike like that. At 195lbs and how I ride, I'm certain I would break it.

    I'm happy with my 23lb plus bike. Its light enough to not feel like a tank but beefy enough endure my ham-fisted riding.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pat2A View Post
    And how much with fork paint ?
    Not sure exactly, didn't really keep track of each step with the fork. But I think it was something like 20g, and I remember the decals alone was another 5g.

    Quote Originally Posted by JackWare View Post
    At last, a bike to ride on water ☺
    That was a kinda sketchy photo shoot though, the bikes were fine of course but the ice wasn't perfectly safe to stand on for me when putting them there.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sidewalk View Post
    With legs like that, I will give no criticism for building ULTRA WW bikes.
    Haha thanks, 7 years in the gym and probably a billion meals in tupperware. Still quite skinny though. But there was some pretty funny jokes about them in the comment section for sure.

    Quote Originally Posted by xblitzkriegx View Post
    Lots of passion and hard work in those bikes. Makes me sad that I cant ride a bike like that. At 195lbs and how I ride, I'm certain I would break it.

    I'm happy with my 23lb plus bike. Its light enough to not feel like a tank but beefy enough endure my ham-fisted riding.
    Yeah it comes down to what works for each rider. One cool thing I realized when building these though, is that I could've built them for a 100kg/220lbs rider without actually adding that much weight.
    The only "weak spots" are the cockpit/seat combo, pedals, wheels and (to some extent) brake discs.
    Adding a 100g would make the combos strong enough for 100kg+, add 150g on the wheels (say 60g per rim and then some for heavier spokes), 100g for pedals and you'd need less than 100g heavier discs.

    The frames have a rider weight limit of 125kg.

    So that's 450g extra, but lets say 500g for some margin.

    Then you'd still have a 8,35kg/18,4lbs Spark with 2,25" Rocket Ron SnakeSkins.
    Sure there can be many more factors, like preferred grips or seats, but I'd say it's possible to build a very light but quite bomb proof bike even for a heavier rider.

  13. #13
    Primative Screwhead
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    Wonderful builds, Dangerholm. These are your artistic creations - no longer 'just' Scott bikes! It must be extremely gratifying to ride them, knowing your builds intimately after carefully selecting and tuning every component.

    Questions: how often do you apply the UV protective wax and can you recommend a particular brand? I too have a matt finish frame and occasionally muse upon the prospect of top tube delamination when riding around. In Tasmania, we have extremely high UV levels also (you can get sunburned in 12 minutes) so that doesn't help.

    Once again, great builds.
    Ego maniacs please object to my posts.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dangerholm View Post
    The only "weak spots" are the cockpit/seat combo, pedals, wheels and (to some extent) brake discs.
    And are the problems of Tune crankset resolved?

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feideaux View Post
    Wonderful builds, Dangerholm. These are your artistic creations - no longer 'just' Scott bikes! It must be extremely gratifying to ride them, knowing your builds intimately after carefully selecting and tuning every component.

    Questions: how often do you apply the UV protective wax and can you recommend a particular brand? I too have a matt finish frame and occasionally muse upon the prospect of top tube delamination when riding around. In Tasmania, we have extremely high UV levels also (you can get sunburned in 12 minutes) so that doesn't help.

    Once again, great builds.
    Thanks a lot! And yes, after all the work and especially after all the delays and problems I really can't wait for this upcoming season when I just can go out and ride.
    I still remember the first ride on the Spark though (got that one up on wheels first) and even though it wasn't really finished it was just so much fun finally riding it that I almost couldn't stop. That first ride ended up being almost 150km, just happy to be on the bike.

    As for UV protection, I guess the problem is easier to deal with up here in Sweden. During the riding season I apply wax every second week or so, depending on how much I ride. I've been using MucOff Miracle Shine and so far so good. Had to remove one top tube decal and there was no signs at all of any discoloration in the carbon.
    But I think there's a 303 UV-protectant specifically for carbon available, for aerospace applications and so on, so maybe that would be even better.

    I guess it depends a lot on the resin used too, and the problem is you never know with bikes. One automotive example is Koenigsegg and their carbon rims, those are only waxed since it's lighter and don't chip like clear coated carbon rims. But better safe than sorry, and keep applying wax.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pat2A View Post
    And are the problems of Tune crankset resolved?
    Actually they've stopped producing them now, and no confirmation on when or if a new one will be released.
    On one of mine, the axle was a bit out of tolerance so the crankset wouldn't fit into the bearings. Customer service was so slow with a reply that I said **** it and just sanded it down ever so little, and after that it has been running strong.
    The other one however, started creaking after just a couple of rides. After basically disassembling the bike into molecules trying to find where the sound came from (I think I even made up a few new curse words) it turned out to be the left pedal insert.
    The actual carbon crank arms seems to be very strong, but I've heard of several people with problems with the pedal inserts or even at the axle. So I guess that's why they went out of production.

    This time I went via Starbike where I had bought it, and they were great dealing with but Tune proved once again to have super bad customer service. It took two months before I got the refund.
    So no more Tune products for me, and I now mostly use a Next SL G4 crankset on the Spark. Got lucky with the weight on that one, and after some small further tuning I got that set down to 355g.

  16. #16
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    Thanks Gustav.
    Worrying about mine.

  17. #17
    Illuminati
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dangerholm View Post

    Yeah it comes down to what works for each rider. One cool thing I realized when building these though, is that I could've built them for a 100kg/220lbs rider without actually adding that much weight.
    The only "weak spots" are the cockpit/seat combo, pedals, wheels and (to some extent) brake discs.
    Hi Dangerholm, thats interesting to read. whats your feelings on the extralite hubs? i've been considering an extralite front hub on LB flyweight rim. I'm fairly lightweight at 145lb, but I do log 24hrs a week on the bike in the summer & maintenance is a concern.

  18. #18
    Maromero
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    Not Dangerholm, but I've been using Extralite hubs on regular LB rims since July '14, no problems, just a couple of bearing changes on the rear hub, I don't ride as much as you, maybe 12 hours a week, also not as light at 73 kg (160 lbs), but aside some scratches they are still holding up pretty well.
    Almost forgot, one change of freehub (preventive) suggested by my mechanic.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails pink bike article-la-foto-4-2.jpg  

    Last edited by doccoraje; 01-03-2018 at 05:28 AM. Reason: adding info

  19. #19
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    doccoraje, thanks for the info

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by scant View Post
    Hi Dangerholm, thats interesting to read. whats your feelings on the extralite hubs? i've been considering an extralite front hub on LB flyweight rim. I'm fairly lightweight at 145lb, but I do log 24hrs a week on the bike in the summer & maintenance is a concern.
    Sorry for the late reply!
    I'd say go for it, at least if it's the front hub. Got the micro-adjuster if needed and a simple but refined construction.
    The reason some people speak against Extralite is mainly that the freehub mechanism is made from aluminium, with a floating ratchet ring that engages directly into the body. It is strong but if you would get dirt inside it would of course wear and get damaged a lot faster than steel variants like DT Swiss.
    The hubs are however super easy to service (just two 17mm wrenches and then pull everything apart) and mine has been perfectly clean inside. If you would however ruin one, the hub shell has two sets of splines for the floating ring. So if you damage one you can get a new ring/body but have a new chance with the same hub shell.

  21. #21
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    thanks for the info, appreciate it

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dangerholm View Post
    Sorry for the late reply!
    I'd say go for it, at least if it's the front hub. Got the micro-adjuster if needed and a simple but refined construction.
    The reason some people speak against Extralite is mainly that the freehub mechanism is made from aluminium, with a floating ratchet ring that engages directly into the body. It is strong but if you would get dirt inside it would of course wear and get damaged a lot faster than steel variants like DT Swiss.
    The hubs are however super easy to service (just two 17mm wrenches and then pull everything apart) and mine has been perfectly clean inside. If you would however ruin one, the hub shell has two sets of splines for the floating ring. So if you damage one you can get a new ring/body but have a new chance with the same hub shell.
    That's only one of the reasons people speak against Extralite. Another reason would be that their tiny springs are much weaker than the ones used by DT Swiss. Even if you service your hub when you should and keep everything clean, the ratchet skips some times. One last reason would be that if you have a problem with one of their products, they will come up with any excuse to avoid repairing/replacing it. Their warranty is non-existent.

    Custom Titanium 29+- Mtbr.com

  23. #23
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    I've read your article several times and have to say your attention to detail is very inspirational! Especially the dremel work and tiny upgrades that all added up! How did you tune your Next SL G4 cranks to reduce the weight by ~20g?

    I am building up a FS for rough riding as well, staying within a $4k budget and on track for less than 20 lbs I'm going with an XG-1195 cassette (54g lighter than Garbaruk 11-50T, plus grams for XD vs. HG driver), XTR derailleur/shifter instead of XX1 (saves a few grams, if I can tune as well as you), open mould Chinese stems/handlebars (20-30g heavier than yours), and an open mould frame (which is the big challenge, because it comes in about 250g heavier than the Scott).

  24. #24
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    xmcarbonspeed makes a 950g 29er frame.

    a 90mm extralite hyperstem with the same schmolke bar he used would be the same weight, without mods. the stem already has ti bolts however.

    using an extralite handlebar with an extralite stem will be within 10g of the other setup.

    depending on your terrain, you might be able to use a roadie 11s cassette. a sram red gx-1190 11-32 cassette weighs 195g with lockring.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by xblitzkriegx View Post
    xmcarbonspeed makes a 950g 29er frame.
    Yep, and xmcarbonspeed has great service but I'm doing a full-suspension 29er. I've been working on the new Boost 29er ultralight frame that weights in at 1850g for a 19", getting quotes from Pro-Mance, TanTan, and Hongfu. I have a good relationship with Pro-Mance so I may go with them.

  26. #26
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    Regarding Extralites customer service when it comes to warranty issues I have no personal experience, so can't really say anything about that.
    When it comes to the ratchet skipping, it hasn't happened to me once during two seasons. I've had that problem on other hubs over the years, but of course 240 is pretty much bomb proof.
    For my next build (Scott Genius) I'm trying the new Carbon-Ti hubs, light but seems really solid. A friend has ridden the previous version all of 2017 with no issues at all. So maybe that is a better option for people wanting light but reliable hubs.

    Quote Originally Posted by sissypants View Post
    I've read your article several times and have to say your attention to detail is very inspirational! Especially the dremel work and tiny upgrades that all added up! How did you tune your Next SL G4 cranks to reduce the weight by ~20g?

    I am building up a FS for rough riding as well, staying within a $4k budget and on track for less than 20 lbs I'm going with an XG-1195 cassette (54g lighter than Garbaruk 11-50T, plus grams for XD vs. HG driver), XTR derailleur/shifter instead of XX1 (saves a few grams, if I can tune as well as you), open mould Chinese stems/handlebars (20-30g heavier than yours), and an open mould frame (which is the big challenge, because it comes in about 250g heavier than the Scott).
    Thanks a lot!
    I kinda got lucky with the Next cranks. I got two sets and one was almost 10g lighter than the other, so had a very good starting point. I don't remember how much more I managed to save but was just a few grams, with sanding them and then I removed material from the preload adjuster.
    Either way, sounds like it's gonna be a nice build! And yes going with XTR is some easy grams saved, but I really do prefer the ergonomics and feel of the XX1 so that's why I went with it.

    Quote Originally Posted by xblitzkriegx View Post
    xmcarbonspeed makes a 950g 29er frame.

    a 90mm extralite hyperstem with the same schmolke bar he used would be the same weight, without mods. the stem already has ti bolts however.

    using an extralite handlebar with an extralite stem will be within 10g of the other setup.

    depending on your terrain, you might be able to use a roadie 11s cassette. a sram red gx-1190 11-32 cassette weighs 195g with lockring.
    The handlebar combos is actually a very long story.
    At the very beginning I was looking at Extralite as well, but I needed a -17 or more and they only offer -12 degrees.
    But I really wanted an integrated combo because of the way it looks, and after deciding on the hydraulic shifting I actually got this crazy idea to fully hide both that and the brake lines.
    Tests were made, and a custom combo with ports for everything was ordered and plans on how to modify the fork steerer. It was of course quite experimental, and if it didn't work out I was gonna run a normal set up, but after an unbelievable 6 months of waiting the quality turned out to be unacceptable and I got so tired of it all so I ditched the idea.

    I was however not gonna give up on integrated combos, so ended up with these ones instead.

    As for the cassette, I do need the 10-42 both for my training and racing.
    But of course there is weight to save on both bikes. There are some new products out there and also they could be made lighter with some compromise on looks and comfort. 6kg for the Scale might actually be possible, but it might also be the most expensive 225g in cycling history haha. So unfortunately it won't happen at this point.

  27. #27
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    But of course there is weight to save on both bikes. There are some new products out there and also they could be made lighter with some compromise on looks and comfort.
    What new products are you thinking of, specifically?

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by sissypants View Post
    Yep, and xmcarbonspeed has great service but I'm doing a full-suspension 29er. I've been working on the new Boost 29er ultralight frame that weights in at 1850g for a 19", getting quotes from Pro-Mance, TanTan, and Hongfu. I have a good relationship with Pro-Mance so I may go with them.
    You wouldnít have some links you could share on the boost FS frame would you? Everything Iíve found is 142mm rear. Thx in advance if you can!
    Never underestimate an old man with a mountain bike.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by MattMay View Post
    You wouldnít have some links you could share on the boost FS frame would you? Everything Iíve found is 142mm rear. Thx in advance if you can!
    Yep, I'm working with Al Zhu at Pro-Mance (al@pro-mance.com) on this frame. He can make a T800 super-light version (17.5") for 1750g. This is just 200g or so heavier than a Scott Spark frame (which I can't afford).

    29er*2.1'' M9007

    You can see the weight for yourself here, on a 19":

    HongFu - FM058 - 29" (9,380kg) - Page 5 - Forum light-bikes.fr

    There's also a guy at the bottom of this page who has a pretty nice build with this frame:

    http://forums.mtbr.com/29er-bikes/du...737952-22.html

    I chose Pro-Mance after emailing TanTan and Hongfu which both offer this frame, they gave me quotes a bit higher and were hesitant about being able to provide a T800 option to save weight. Al has been a pleasure to work with.

  30. #30
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    Danger, my last reply was meant more for sissypants than as suggestions for you.

  31. #31
    chasing simplicity
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    Quote Originally Posted by sissypants View Post
    Yep, I'm working with Al Zhu at Pro-Mance (al@pro-mance.com) on this frame. He can make a T800 super-light version (17.5") for 1750g. This is just 200g or so heavier than a Scott Spark frame (which I can't afford).

    29er*2.1'' M9007

    You can see the weight for yourself here, on a 19":

    HongFu - FM058 - 29" (9,380kg) - Page 5 - Forum light-bikes.fr

    There's also a guy at the bottom of this page who has a pretty nice build with this frame:

    http://forums.mtbr.com/29er-bikes/du...737952-22.html

    I chose Pro-Mance after emailing TanTan and Hongfu which both offer this frame, they gave me quotes a bit higher and were hesitant about being able to provide a T800 option to save weight. Al has been a pleasure to work with.
    Awesome! Thank you so much. Itís crazy what they want for a Spark frame...even on R2-bike itís 5.5k and not available until March. Just nuts.
    Never underestimate an old man with a mountain bike.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by xblitzkriegx View Post
    Danger, my last reply was meant more for sissypants than as suggestions for you.
    Ah of course it was, sorry for the misunderstanding!

    Quote Originally Posted by sissypants View Post
    What new products are you thinking of, specifically?
    The biggest saving would be from new rims, with GrigioCarbonio's being as light as 270g you'd get quite close to 1000g for the set even with 28h front and rear.
    The rest in my case would have to be new as in mostly special made. Hopp Carbon Parts could do the Acros shifting system in full carbon getting the complete weight close to 200g, along with carbon brake levers and so on.
    ND Tuned damping cartridge might be a bit lighter than mine too, but I really prefer to have a manual full lock-out.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dangerholm View Post
    The biggest saving would be from new rims, with GrigioCarbonio's being as light as 270g you'd get quite close to 1000g for the set even with 28h front and rear.
    270g per rim? That is really pushing the limits! Amazing. I sure hope those can take a beating or that would quite literally be disposable income!

    Unfortunately my pockets aren't that deep. Speedsafe (from Aliexpress) makes a pretty solid 310g 29er rim and offers combos with super-light aero spokes and any hub. I'll be putting down $900 for a 1220g wheelset with 240s. I have run a SpeedSafe rim before and tried breaking it on the trails to no success I am impressed by this combination of cheap, light, and durable.

    Speedsafe is also has a 300g 29er rims for $185/pc. but I have no evidence that they actually weigh what they say for this product.

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