New Formula ORO Disc brakes!- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
    Max
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    New Formula ORO Disc brakes!

    look what just came in today! a brandnew set of the new oro brakes, designed to suit everybody's needs, only depending on the rotor size.

    i got the 160 mm version, which i immediately put on the scale. first pic shows the front brake incl. all steel bolts and rotor (103g, so it's 7 g lighter). second brake shows the same one with the hose shortened around 20 cm and 2 alloy bolts + 2 ti bolts
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  2. #2
    Max
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    as you can see, they only come in a post-mount version, so IS riders like me need the adapter that's mounted in the pic. incl. the stock steel bolts it weighs 25 g. so my bolt-tuned oro would weigh in @ ~348g.

    not that bad for a brake with such a solid feel. looks very durable, no plastic screws and fragile parts like the B4 had.

    the pic below shows my previous brake, a 2003 B4 pro, extensively tuned with ti monting bolts and nylon bolts for the lever pivot and the pad-securing bolt

    the second one shows the new oro caliper/lever assembly stock as it is out of the box. cut to the appropriate hose length it weighs only about 10 g more than the B4, but including the postmount adapter!
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  3. #3
    Max
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    unfortunately i havent had a chance yet to test them out on the trails, but the feel of the brakes is far superior to the B4s, which were pretty light, but have never worked flawlessly: i had some troubles with the left brake lever after rebleeding, and brake power was less than with other brakes. although i have to admit they gave incredible modulation....

    AND PLEASE: let's not start another V vs. Discs war....


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  4. #4
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    Formula's rock...

    Quote Originally Posted by Max
    unfortunately i havent had a chance yet to test them out on the trails, but the feel of the brakes is far superior to the B4s, which were pretty light, but have never worked flawlessly: i had some troubles with the left brake lever after rebleeding, and brake power was less than with other brakes. although i have to admit they gave incredible modulation....

    AND PLEASE: let's not start another V vs. Discs war....
    as i always said the Formula was the best Disc i have tried so far. but that was with 200mm rotor...
    anyway - the Formula Oro just won a shootout of different XC-Discbrakes in the latest german "Mountain Bike" magazine.
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  5. #5
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    don't the oros have some sort of power-adjust like on the juicy 7 or el camino? now if they would make them with IS mount and 140mm rear...

    also, post-mount rear doesn't even make sense. are there even any bikes with post-mount rear disk mounts? or are the front and rear calipers the same?

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by nino
    as i always said the Formula was the best Disc i have tried so far. but that was with 200mm rotor...
    anyway - the Formula Oro just won a shootout of different XC-Discbrakes in the latest german "Mountain Bike" magazine.
    What other brakes were in this test? How did the others go?

  7. #7
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    I've been waiting for scal info on these for long, thanks! when i held hem in May, I was hoping for a bit lighter than this, but they look good.
    I totally love my Extremes with Moto levers. Still well under 1000g with 185mm rotors, I believe. Levers live up to their name for sure.

    Too bad about the postmounts, that's what makes my B4 Pro+'s much heavier than they could be. Wish they made an IS version for those with a good mechanic.
    Klok - XC - Skate - Ski

  8. #8
    Max
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyco-Dude
    don't the oros have some sort of power-adjust like on the juicy 7 or el camino? now if they would make them with IS mount and 140mm rear...

    also, post-mount rear doesn't even make sense. are there even any bikes with post-mount rear disk mounts? or are the front and rear calipers the same?
    they got the FCS, the Feel Control System. it adjusts the loadless lever travel. you can also adjust the lever reach. go to formula-brake.com and take a look at the intro. there you can see the small FCS adjuster.

    the calipers are identical from what i can tell, otherwise it wouldnt make sense why they use differently sized postmount adapter front and rear. so i'd say you can run a 140mm disc in the rear using the 160mm front adapter, but what for?
    the 140mm B4 disc weighs 85g (vs. 103g for the 160 mm Oro rotor), so you save 18g. you can also save 1-2g by using the smaller adapter, so that might be around 20g.

    on the other hand it would really look ugly to run one wavy and one round rotor, so you'd have to get the B4 rotor up front as well, which weighs 7g more. so that's a hell lotta money (2 rotors, 1 adapter) for 12-13g saved...

    surely i'd like to have IS brakes.... but i have to admit mounting postmount brakes is a breeze: pull the lever, tighten the brake caliper and basta


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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by bike_freak
    What other brakes were in this test? How did the others go?
    other tested brakes...

    brand/model (small rotor rating / big rotor rating ) comments

    Avid Juicy 7 (good / very good) very easy to set up, lacks a bit in power, very good ergonomics. no problems at all in the wet.

    Formula Oro (good / very good ) rated best brake! awesome power. heavier riders or marathon riders should look into the 185 or 200mm disc. in the wet still the same awesome power.

    Hayes HFX Magnesium (good / good) much power but not so good modulation. problems with overheating and warped rotors as well as some eventual squeeling. no problems in the wet.

    Magura Louise FR ( very good / very good) standard pads wore "in a minute"!! those pads lack in power and modulation as well. with different "performance" pads it would have won this shootout...ok in the wet once correct pads were installed.

    Shimano XT ( acceptable / good) with the small rotor and standard pads the brake overheats in no time, pads bend and get eaten away...bikers that do longer downhills or marathons should definitely get the big rotors to get more cooling and get pad wear to an acceptable level. if pads got hot once no power in the wet !

    Magura Julie 05 ( very good) needs a bit more handforce but otherwise good power.good brake for the money. ok in the wet with slightly higher handforce.

    Magura Marta ( very good) for lightweight racers the No 1 brake. good power and great modulation. heavier riders and marthonisti should get the big rotor. ok in the wet.

    Shimano Hone (acceptable) the same brake as the LX but with bigger rotors has good durability BUT lacks in power and has some fading. needs a powerful pull at the levers..no real fun for freeriders. even less power in the wet but modulation is ok.

    Shimano LX ( weak) weak in power, when heated up long pull and soft feel at the lever,high pad wear, no feel at the lever when hot, even in the wet weak power.

    Shimano Saint ( very good) good freeride brake. power is ok but doesn't reach the Louise FR. needs a heavy pull on the levers for hard stops. lacks modulation in the wet and has no power anymore.

    Shimano XTR ( good) power ok for lighter riders.for hard braking a heavy pull is needed. feel at the lever is a bit soft but good modulation. overheats and then the lever "becomes long" and needs even more handforce. much lower power in the wet make it hard to modulate.
    Last edited by nino; 12-14-2004 at 04:13 AM.

  10. #10
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    Not to be pernickety, but...

    The glowing review is for the 200 mm disc version. The text for the 160 mm edition is somewhat less positive. One significant issue I can see (for myself) is the claimed noticeable decrease in power when when. Also, I really wouldn't call a brake w/ 200 mm rotors 'XC' anymore.

    This is all quite interesting, though. I was thinking of replacing my Mag+ brakes w/ Martas, but they recommend larger discs for marathonisti (which I am, solely). Same for the Oro. So what do I do now? Oddly enough Bike Magazin preferred both the B4+ and Marta SL, of all the XC brakes.

  11. #11
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    correct...

    Quote Originally Posted by eric
    The glowing review is for the 200 mm disc version. The text for the 160 mm edition is somewhat less positive. One significant issue I can see (for myself) is the claimed noticeable decrease in power when when. Also, I really wouldn't call a brake w/ 200 mm rotors 'XC' anymore.

    This is all quite interesting, though. I was thinking of replacing my Mag+ brakes w/ Martas, but they recommend larger discs for marathonisti (which I am, solely). Same for the Oro. So what do I do now? Oddly enough Bike Magazin preferred both the B4+ and Marta SL, of all the XC brakes.
    absolutely correct!
    but still the Formula Oro was the most powerful and rated best also with the smaller rotor.

    fact is that all brakes get better power and better heat dissipation...less problems when run with the big 200mm rotors.

    a fact that i can only agree on as all discs with small rotors i tried so far lacked in power. i really want powerful brakes and 160mm just don't do the trick. that Formula with 200mm rotor i tried was perfect but then again it was dead heavy

  12. #12
    Max
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    i'd read the german reviews with a grain of salt.... of course companies presenting new parts might try to.... uhm.....achieve good results

    but as i said, the formulas look promising, and i'm looking forward to testing them. and you can be sure that my review is gonna be unbiased and objective what a pity most of you cant read the mountainbike-revue...


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  13. #13
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    Please do some long, Alpine descents!!!

    I'm wondering what brakeset to get (if any). Though most marathons I ride aren't a problem, I've seen people destroy almost everything during last year's Cristalp week. Everything from Hopes to Martas to XTR was breaking down. Admittedly it's 90% the riders fault, but it makes me want something that can take the occasional marathon in the Alps without requiring a 180 or 200 mm rotor. At my weight that shouldn't be necessary.

    Currently I'm using Hayes Mag+, but I'm steering towards Magura Martas for next year. However, the Oro's also look promising, so hurry up and put some miles on those things!

  14. #14
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    I know a girl that did Christalp in 10.5 hours this year, on an ancient Kona hardtail, 20th century Judy, and simple V's.
    Eric, I'd say if your riding style doesn't like XC brakes, get at least brakes with HEAVY rotors. 200mm helps with power, but I bet you've got plenty power with 160mm, till you roast them. And as you're getting heavy (150g+) rotors, you might as well take ones with a large diameter.
    I know too little about brakes to know what calipers would make most sence, but I do know my 185mm Formula Extreme's in Riva didn't fade on the 1km+ descends. I'm too heavy and scared to let go off the brakes, so you betcha I tested the babies. Well, I only rode the front Extreme, the rear B4 Pro+ held up as well. It was my arms and shoulders forcing me to take a break on some of the longer DH's.

    Buy some adapters and 203mm rotors, go from there. Try if you can fry those. No really, TRY to. You'll find a way to win back the grams. And no, not the fancy lightweight 203's! You're a scientist...think big!
    Klok - XC - Skate - Ski

  15. #15
    Max
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    i disagree.... i wouldnt go for 203 rotors, i believe 180 might suffice. although i wonder what people do to make their discs fail on long descends. i usually brake harsh and shortly, instead of letting the brakes drag for 2000 HM

    when i tested marthas (and martha carbon), even in short but steep passages i could feel how the point when the pads touch the rotor wandered outwards. not really that reliable, if you ask me


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    I don't get the post-mount either.

    Why post-mount? I have no interest in those stupid adapters. I could care less which system/standard I use, but it seems to me this battle has been over with for a long time. I.S. won, so why is Formula using post-mount?

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    Quote Originally Posted by B R H
    Why post-mount? I have no interest in those stupid adapters. I could care less which system/standard I use, but it seems to me this battle has been over with for a long time. I.S. won, so why is Formula using post-mount?
    pm actually is the better system. much less stress on the caliper-bolts (the ones which hold the caliper on the frame/fork) but that only with caliper AND frame/fork fitting pm; it's also superior over IS2000 in adjustability - lots easier to adjust and no need to fiddle arround with tiny spacers or stuff.

    as for the adapter-thing: for formula of course it's quite interesting to produce only one caliper for all types of a brakemodel and deliver it with certain (cheap) adapters instead. it's just a "nice" way to kill two (or even more) birds with a stone. (killing birds with a stone?! you barbarians!)

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    I have my doubts that it is better.

    I've never heard of an I.S. caliper bolt or mount breaking. I've been using Formula B4s for over 2 years, which use aluminum bolts, with no problems in this respect. If post-mount is stronger, it is solving a problem that doesn't seem to exist. I would worry more about stripping threads in a soft magnesium fork leg casting that breaking a bolt. I have seen this happen.

    Regarding adjustment. This is only done once, so I don't see this as much of a problem either. I admit that facing disc tabs can be a pain, but usually it's not necessary. I do think manufacturers need to be more consistent on the interpretation of the I.S. standard. There is currently too much variance.

    That leaves cost, which does make sense.

    Too bad though because I like Formula stuff but won't choose thier stuff for my next build due to the silly adapters. Adapters are heavier and require even more fiddling to adjust (now each caliper has 4 bolts instead of 2!). There is simply no advantage for the vast majority of consumers. I realize some forks still use post-mount, but do any frames even exist with post-mount?

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by B R H
    I've never heard of an I.S. caliper bolt or mount breaking. I've been using Formula B4s for over 2 years, which use aluminum bolts, with no problems in this respect. If post-mount is stronger, it is solving a problem that doesn't seem to exist. I would worry more about stripping threads in a soft magnesium fork leg casting that breaking a bolt. I have seen this happen.
    ...
    i've never heard of braking caliper-bolts either but if you eg ask manufacturers why to use or not to use alum bolts, the notexisting problem is, how they argue...

    Quote Originally Posted by B R H
    ...
    Regarding adjustment. This is only done once, so I don't see this as much of a problem either. I admit that facing disc tabs can be a pain, but usually it's not necessary. I do think manufacturers need to be more consistent on the interpretation of the I.S. standard. There is currently too much variance.
    ...
    of course it usually is only done once but even that initial adjustment gets lots easier with pm.

    Quote Originally Posted by B R H
    ...
    Adapters are heavier and require even more fiddling to adjust (now each caliper has 4 bolts instead of 2!). There is simply no advantage for the vast majority of consumers. I realize some forks still use post-mount, but do any frames even exist with post-mount?

    lol!!!! more bolts, more fiddling. yes, makes sense to me. i don't know how you do the job but i thought this to be a common way:
    is2000: mount caliper with bolts not tightened; push lever; check, how much space is left between caliper and disktab; dismount one bolt and fill the gap with spacers; do the same to the other bolt; recheck and be happy you did it!
    pm (also is-to-pm adapter): mount caliper with pm-bolts not tightened; push lever; tighten pm-bolts and be happy as you neighbour is still searching for the right size and amount of those tiny spacers...
    (here i have to admit that this becomes an important problem, if you change wheels often and/or work on several bikes as then it is not a "done once"-thing anymore)


    there are some frames with pm (don't know which but i've seen some) but once again the cheaper way was the was to go - it's just an easy thing to add an IS-like diskmount to the existing dropout whereas pm CAN be a little more work...
    (nevertheless i don't like adapter solutions either but in that case think it's at least "quite ok" allthough i'd love to take the fiddling for getting a new sub300g brake)

  20. #20
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    Sharing wheels.

    If you set up each wheel the same using spacers (simple brass washers work well) behind the rotors, you can share wheels between bikes.

    So the Oros would be under 300 g without the adapters and with I.S. calipers? Are they using magnesium castings again or aluminum?

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by B R H
    If you set up each wheel the same using spacers (simple brass washers work well) behind the rotors, you can share wheels between bikes.
    AFAIK Syntace offers special shims with 6 holes in order to have different hubs with the same rotor spacing, but of course simple spacers will work as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by B R H
    So the Oros would be under 300 g without the adapters and with I.S. calipers? Are they using magnesium castings again or aluminum?
    wrong. as i said, my slightly tuned Oros weigh 370g F and 384g R. the PM-adapter weighs 25g incl. the two steel bolts. replace them with with alloy or Ti and you'll save around 5g per adapter. so without the PM adapter the Oros weigh around 348-350g F (hose shortened by around 8")

    from what i can remeber i was told that the calipers are made from alloy, cuz the magnesium reacted with the brake fluid, thus causing problems with leaking calipers


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  22. #22
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  23. #23
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    here's an allegation

    You are Mr. Scary.
    M

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