mfg's weight claims B.S. ?- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    mfg's weight claims B.S. ?

    Just bought a Scott Scale 40. The Scott website lists the bike at 25.22 lbs. The bike shop that just assembled it weighed my bike as stock at 27.8 lbs and it is now slightly over 26 lbs after I have replaced some parts with lighter weight pieces (Easton 70 Monkey Bar, Scott carbon seat post, and lighter weight Scott stem). I also have a set of D T Swiss 4.2d wheels with 240 hubs that should shed some pretty good weigh too, but I don't have them mounted yet.

    So what gives? How come this bike 2.5 lbs more than Scott claims to start with? I was hoping that this bike after replacing a few stock parts would weigh in around 22 - 23 lbs, and then maybe 21 lbs after the wheels..

  2. #2
    NormalNorm
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    Thats a total scam. Imagine giving the mfg $4000, and telling them 10% is fake bills. Thats pretty much what has happened to you. Not fair at all.....

  3. #3
    I love Pisgah
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    Altho thats a big gap..Usually, if a mfg states bike weights at all..its for the size small and no pedals.

    My large NRS frame is 9oz heavier then my med frame, for instance. And that seems like a big jump to me for one size.
    Last edited by Duckman; 04-26-2008 at 05:52 PM.
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  4. #4
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    Guess there is always error on the mfgs side it seems. I'm into motorbikes and they always make claims to be way lighter than actual.

    Maybe the 25.2 is without pedals, tires/tubes, & hydraulic fluid for the brakes?


    I'm a total newbe to the mtb scene. Could you guys give me some direction on making this bike a dream ride? Cost is not a big deal when talking in the $100's, but I don't want to invest too much more because I already bought the DT Swiss 4.2d 240 wheelest which I thought to be very light and nice hubs too but added mucho $.

    I know what the different parts do mechanically, but other than my 2 months of internet reading I don't know about after-market stuff and what improvements could be made for weight savings to my particular bike. I know a new cassette, carbon cranks, etc.. would help but what would you guys do that is cost effective and noticable? Here is what I have:


    Price (USD)

    $1,899.99 (not what I payed. got an '07 leftover for pretty cheap)

    Weight
    11.45 kg
    25.22

    Frame

    Scott Scale Alloy 7005 DB
    hydrafrom monocoque tubes
    V dropout design
    Delta SST bridge / Integ. HT
    BOX chainstay bridge

    Fork

    Fox 32 F100RL / Air spring
    alloy steerer / reb. adj / Lockout
    Quad taperd lowers / 100 mm travel

    Headset

    Ritchey OE 1 1/8""
    semi integrated 44/50mm

    Derailleur (Rear)

    Shimano XT RD-M772 SGS
    Shadow Type / 27 Speed

    Derailleur (Front)

    Shimano LX FD-M580A / 34.9mm

    Shifters

    Shimano LX SL-M580
    Rapidfire plus / 2 way release
    w/gear indicator

    Brake Levers


    Avid Juicy 3.5

    Brakes

    Avid Juicy 3.5
    185/F and 160/R mm Rotor

    Crankset

    Shimano LX FC-M580
    hollowtech 2
    44Ax32Ax22 T

    BB-Set


    Shimano Cartridge / 68mm shell

    Handlebar

    Easton EA70 Monkey Bar (riser)

    H'stem

    Scott Comp
    4 bolt
    oversize 31.8mm/ 6 angle

    Pedals


    Primo - Striker Magnesium sealed Pedal (BMX style)

    Seatpost

    Scott Comp Carbon/ 31.6mm

    Seat

    Scott Racing

    Hub (Front)

    D T Swiss 240

    Hub (Rear)

    D T Swiss 240

    Chain

    Shimano CN-HG53

    Cassette

    Shimano CS-HG50-9
    11-32 T

    Spokes

    DT Swiss Champion Black 1.8mm

    Rims

    D T Swiss 4.2d
    Black

    Tires

    Continental Travel Contact Tire 26 X 1.75
    because I'm going for all around road & trail uset
    Last edited by intune; 04-26-2008 at 09:40 PM.

  5. #5
    AKA Dr.Nob
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    How do you know what a dream ride is if your "a total newbe to the mtb scene".

    Ride the bike.

    Although the first things I would change would be the pedals and the brakes. But those things are based on my personal preferance.
    Not that all teenagers are evil mind, just most of them.

  6. #6
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    How do you know what a dream ride is if your "a total newbe to the mtb scene".
    There are certain 'staples' that go with the territory I'm sure.

    For example, if you were going to buy a new top line LCDTV I'd say "you'd want 120hrtz refresh, 1080p etc..." or you were into road racing sportbikes I'd say "get some forged wheels & ceramic brake rotors they make a huge improvement. Marchesini make really nice stuff", or your building a monster car motor "you should look into dry film lubricants for your bearing surfaces, piston skirts, etc... they really make a good improvement and CP Pistons are usually the best out there so look into those....."

    Anyway you get the idea.

    No I don't know what my dream bike should be. But you guys should know what makes a great bike in a general sense way more than I do. I'm trying to get all the tasty parts on now so that I don't have to hear it later form my wife about "why are you spending $$ on that?" later. Its a new bike and I got the OK to get something nice so I want to get the right stuff up front. I pick it up on Tuesday.

    This bike is going to be my all-arounder. It will see road, path, trail & single track, and the occasional bump/jump/drop depending on the terrain that I'm around. I ride a little motocross & trail riding on my YZ125 so other than the fitness/endurance issue I need to build up, I think I will be up for 'pushing' this bike more than probably an average beginner.

    When you say I'd change the pedals & brakes maybe follow up with "because I like .xxxx...... ...xxxxx.... they are lighter, or stronger, or those won't suit your riding style because those pedals are not good for XC, etc...."

    Just looking for input

    Nino ~ thanks for the tips
    Last edited by intune; 04-26-2008 at 09:58 PM.

  7. #7
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    some saving options...

    Scott is the manufacturer with the closest weight numbers you can find BUT like most listst abike without pedals and in a small size. so if you fit BMX pedals and have a large size it is no wonder it weighs more.

    so here's what i think are reasonable upgrades. parts like chain and cassette could be changed when they are worn or you sell them right now on ebay so you get some money back you will spend in the new parts...

    -old XTR M950 front derailleurs were about 50g lighter than your current LX.get it on Ebay.
    -get some lightweight rotors for your beakes like Alligator Windcutter. ca 60-80g savings
    -Eggbeater SL pedals might well be 150g lighter than your cheapo pedals that came stock.if it needs to be a BMX style pedal look for Wellgo magnesiums on Ebay.light (450g if i remember right) and cheap (ca. 35$)
    -do you really need a Rizerbar? if not get rid of it and go for a KCNC scandium flatbar and according 25,4mm Ti-Pro stem. together this should save approximately 200g
    -a lightweight Saddle like a Selle Italia SLR should drop about 100g
    -get rid of that stock seatpost. i would go for a KCNC Ti-Pro and save 100g or more by doing so
    -a KMC X10 chain will save 50g (KMC X10SL saves a bit more but costs more
    -Shimano XT or SRAM PG-990 Cassette will save about 60g
    -lightweight innertubes? ca. 100g savings
    -grips? check out foam grips -80g
    -skewers? cheapo 10-15$ bolt-on skewers weigh just 65g and will save 60g

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by intune
    There are certain 'staples' that go with the territory I'm sure.

    For example, if you were going to buy a new top line LCDTV I'd say "you'd want 120hrtz refresh, 1080p etc..." or you were into road racing sportbikes I'd say "get some forged wheels & ceramic brake rotors they make a huge improvement. Marchesini make really nice stuff", or your building a monster car motor "you should look into dry film lubricants for your bearing surfaces, piston skirts, etc... they really make a good improvement and CP Pistons are usually the best out there so look into those....."

    Anyway you get the idea.

    No I don't know what my dream bike should be. But you guys should know what makes a great bike in a general sense way more than I do. I'm trying to get all the tasty parts on now so that I don't have to hear it later form my wife about "why are you spending $$ on that?" later. Its a new bike and I got the OK to get something nice so I want to get the right stuff up front. I pick it up on Tuesday.

    This bike is going to be my all-arounder. It will see road, path, trail & single track, and the occasional bump/jump/drop depending on the terrain that I'm around. I ride a little motocross & trail riding on my YZ125 so other than the fitness/endurance issue I need to build up, I think I will be up for 'pushing' this bike more than probably an average beginner.

    When you say I'd change the pedals & brakes maybe follow up with "because I like .xxxx...... ...xxxxx.... they are lighter, or stronger, or those won't suit your riding style because those pedals are not good for XC, etc...."

    Just looking for input
    here's the advice that everyone knows in the mtb scene- get the hell out of the weight weenies forum. For the non-racer the weight isn't really that important, and for the racer... well...for some people making the bike light is half the hobby. Unless your fitness is really competitive, losing weight on the bike is a complete waste of money.

    From your description and analogies you're looking for good parts, not light parts. Sure, the bike is 2.5lbs heavier than you anticipated, or whatever, but a newb is not going to notice it on the trail, and an experienced rider might not notice either. That said, your bike is already specced with a good cost/function ratio, and i wouldn't really mess with it. What you will notice is quality (and appropriate geometry), and quality tends to be lighter, to a certain extent. Your spec looks pretty good, but i'd invest in some clipless pedals (bmx pedals on a scale is ridiculous, and a sign you're on the wrong type of bike) and a more trail friendly front tire. If you wanna drop some easy weight and improve your shift quality a bit, get an XT cassette.

    Mostly it's about setting the bike up to suit your own riding style and anatomy, though, so you can't really spend all the money up front with out knowing exactly what you want.
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  9. #9
    No longer 26
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    intune...

    You got a pretty nice set up. 25# ish is not bad at all.
    Your wheelset is very nice in my opinion and is light where it counts the most.

    Get some clipless pedals and of course cycling shoes to go with them. When you get offroad, get some Schwalbe Racing Ralph tires. 2.4 front and back if they fit, if not 2.25 in the back. The offer great speed and good traction. If you end up needing more traction get a Schwalbe Nobby Nic 2.4, especially for the front.

    Other than that, ride the rest and figure out what does and does not work well for you. When ready to change things out, Nino has some good suggestions on some of the little things that go into a nice light build.

    G
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  10. #10
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    Great. Thanks for the advice guys.

    Looks like the first thing is clip-less pedals. What are the good ones out there?

  11. #11
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    Don't upgrade the cassette unless you also upgrade the chain -- a mediocre chain will eat away the cassette. Also, when looking for a new cassette, consider the gearing ratios and ranges you need. For an all-rounder bike I'd suggest an MTB cassette, not a road one, although road cassettes are noticeably lighter (Dura-Ace 12-27T is a particularly compelling one as it sits somewhere in-between the two extremes, and you might get away with it).

    IMHO, 2.4 tires are a little overkill for 19mm wide DT 4.2 rims - I'd go with 2.25 Racing Ralph rear, 2.25 Nobby Nic front. Also avoid 100g inner tubes - they are unforgiving to pilot errors, and an all-rounder bike is by concept should be a compliant machine that allows you to gain experience by repetitive trial and error.

    I'd suggest putting on a top of the line carbon flat bar (while avoiding carbon stuff in general for this bike) and avoid lightweight stems. Thomson Elite X4 with a 31.8mm carbon flat bar should do the trick.

    The clipless pedals are mandatory, and you better start riding with them soon because you'll want to maximize the extent of time you build up your clipless pedaling skill. I recommend you start with Shimano M959 pedals, or the new XTR M970 ones. They are adjustable (which is good for a beginner) and are very reliable, low-maintenance and sturdy units (perhaps the most reliable and indestructible of all major makes of clipless pedals). There are lots of both lighter and better performing pedals out there, perhaps Time Roc Atac would be another good choice, but I haven't personally tried those so I cannot really advise for or against them.

    Saddles are a personal thing -- over the years you''ll probably find yourself looking gradually for lighter ones. Selle Italia SLR (I mean plain SLR) is a good starting compromise, you only need to verify if it suits you anatomically.

  12. #12
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    I wanted a riser bar because of the more upright/comfort for all-round use. I know the flat bar is more aggressive and gets you over the front better but for longer road rides and commutes I think the riser would suit me better. Got a second hand set of Easton EA70 from a buddy that rides, I bought the Scott Comp oversize stem. At the LBS I felt a few stems an felt the Scott was as light or lighter and no extra cost because I just traded them my brand new stock one.

    Clipless pedals are OK for wearing normal shoes with? Like when I ride around with my wife or going to work, etc? Or do you need to have cycle specific shoes? I thought they would suck for that purpose and is why I had them just throw on a set of BMX flat pedals (Primo Mags) which were also hand-me-downs form a guy that used to ride dirt/BMX. They are like near brand new condition and have sealed bearings too.

    I guess I'm just not familiar enough with mtb'in to know why, other than clip-on road pedals, you would want those little tiny platform egg-beaters? They help when you ride off road better?, or you can use clip-in shoes &/or ride with standard shoes too? Just trying to understand the benefit and purpose of all these different style pedals. My only experience is with BMX bikes. So it was always flat pedals.

    Thanks

  13. #13
    meow, meow.
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    Clipless pedals come in 2 flavors: with platform and without one. Those with platform are generally much heavier but they allow you to ride without clipless shoes (to some extent). Typically you would not want to ride clipless pedals without the shoes.

    The benefits of clipless are many! You'll probably find out that riding to work is also better clipless, and you'll want that your wife also start clipping in!

    It's better to accelerate, to go uphill and against headwind, to raise your rear wheel in the air to to things, to never worry about slipping off pedals.

    Come to the dark side.

    (Getting parts cheap is good, though, even if they aren't exactly what a bike like yours might ideally need)

  14. #14
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    Keep in mind also that some of the cycling specific MTB shoes (clipless capable) do not necessarily look all geeky and stupid. A lot of them could pass as regular low cut hiking boots that you could wear off the bike as well. Just beware that depending on the model of pedal you go with, the cleat could get worn prematurely from regular walking around. I know the Premium cleats from my Crank Brothers Egg Beater pedals suffer this fate when I walk around at work in my Northwave GoreTex winter riding shoes.

  15. #15
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    Alternatively, do wear geek-looking shoes along with some geek pride.

    To illustrate with my experience, -- when people see me, their typical reactions are: "Whoa! An alien!!!" (that's when I'm off the bike, entering a building or some such) or "What was that?!?" (that's when I ride past them). In the first scenario, it's invariably the hydration hose that causes the most stirrup, then goes the helmet with mounted light, then arm and leg armor, but never the shoes!

    Like I said, join the dark side. When it's about cycling, don't allow the masses shape the way you look, because in that you also allow them to alter the way you function, to suit their tastes.

  16. #16
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    So when mountain biking you never take your feet off the pedals?

    Even to plant your inside leg, (or keep yourself from sliding out) when 'backing it in' to a tight corner or dabbing your feet down for technical sections where slow speed and balance is critical? Etc?... I thought road bikes were the ones who clipped in because they don't ride as aggressively? Maybe I'm thinking this will be like motocross when it has no relation at all?
    Last edited by intune; 04-27-2008 at 03:55 PM.

  17. #17
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    With modern MTB clipless pedals, unclipping is very easy and fast. I do unclip one (the one relevant to the situation) leg when in doubt, and both when in panic and about to go down. The Crank Brothers Eggbeaters series pedals are particularly easy to unclip from. Clipping out (and, ideally, back in) is also a skill you learn to do on the sub-conscious level.

    I would also say that when you crash, you still (most of the time) get unclipped somehow midway through the crash sequence.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by J. Random Psycho
    Alternatively, do wear geek-looking shoes along with some geek pride.

    Like I said, join the dark side. When it's about cycling, don't allow the masses shape the way you look, because in that you also allow them to alter the way you function, to suit their tastes.
    Trust me, I have the Geek Squad shoes too. When it warm enough (like this afternoon) or not pouring with rain, I can be seen riding around in these:


  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by nino
    Scott is the manufacturer with the closest weight numbers you can find BUT like most listst abike without pedals and in a small size. so if you fit BMX pedals and have a large size it is no wonder it weighs more.

    so here's what i think are reasonable upgrades. parts like chain and cassette could be changed when they are worn or you sell them right now on ebay so you get some money back you will spend in the new parts...

    -old XTR M950 front derailleurs were about 50g lighter than your current LX.get it on Ebay.
    -get some lightweight rotors for your beakes like Alligator Windcutter. ca 60-80g savings
    -Eggbeater SL pedals might well be 150g lighter than your cheapo pedals that came stock.if it needs to be a BMX style pedal look for Wellgo magnesiums on Ebay.light (450g if i remember right) and cheap (ca. 35$)
    -do you really need a Rizerbar? if not get rid of it and go for a KCNC scandium flatbar and according 25,4mm Ti-Pro stem. together this should save approximately 200g
    -a lightweight Saddle like a Selle Italia SLR should drop about 100g
    -get rid of that stock seatpost. i would go for a KCNC Ti-Pro and save 100g or more by doing so
    -a KMC X10 chain will save 50g (KMC X10SL saves a bit more but costs more
    -Shimano XT or SRAM PG-990 Cassette will save about 60g
    -lightweight innertubes? ca. 100g savings
    -grips? check out foam grips -80g
    -skewers? cheapo 10-15$ bolt-on skewers weigh just 65g and will save 60g
    Or he could just go ride the bike. It's not like 26lbs is heavy! Hell, I'm riding the only 30+ Stumpjumper that I've ever seen. On a 2900g wheelset to boot!
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by intune
    So when mountain biking you never take your feet off the pedals?

    Even to plant your inside leg, (or keep yourself from sliding out) when 'backing it in' to a tight corner or dabbing your feet down for technical sections where slow speed and balance is critical? Etc?... I thought road bikes were the ones who clipped in because they don't ride as aggressively? Maybe I'm thinking this will be like motocross when it has no relation at all?
    i never unclip. You have more control of the bike clipped in, and unclipping around loose sweepers doesnt really work that well on a hardtail, since youre trading suspension for a dangly foot. With mx you can balance the bike with the throttle, with a bike you only have your weight and the brakes. There's some things in common but its a different activity.

    Go ride the bike and stop over thinking this stuff.
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  21. #21
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    Ok, here's a different view on things. I don't like clipless pedals (and the crowd goes boo!!). I think they suck. Why you ask? Gee, let me count the ways lol. First, because of the way I use my bike. I ride trails...and roads...and to the grocery store...and to go get a movie...and to work, etc. Platform type pedals are much more suited to multi use riding than clipless pedals. Oh yeah, clipless shoes suck too! Totally uncomfortable to walk in not to mention that you will sound like a jackass (they are noisy). If you try to compromise with clipless pedals that have platforms (ie Crank Brothers Candy pedals) they will end up weighing more than the pedals you have, and you will never really get a good grip on the pedals especially when wet. Next up, the learning curve. Remember when you first learned to ride a bike? If you were anything like me you probable crashed a few times, then figured it out and realized that crashing sucks. You did whatever you could to ride better and avoid crashing, right? Wanna start over? Just go get some clipless pedals. They will have you crashing in no time! No, it doesn't take that long to learn to use them, but why crash if you don't have to. Having clipless pedals have caused many (if not all) people to crash, but NOT having clipless pedals hasn't caused anyone to crash. I mean have you ever heard someone say, Gee if I only had some clipless pedals I might not have fallen over and hit my head on the ground? No. You havent. There's a pretty damn good reason for that. Ok, clipless pedals do have some benefits I guess. If you get the ones without platforms they will weigh just a little bit more than lightweight platforms. You will be able to pedal more efficiently (when you're not falling down). And you get to spend extra money on shoes that are good for nothing except clipping into some pedals (and who doesn't have "extra" money for crap like that). Trust me, you wont ever find yourself wearing your bike shoes around the house because they are so comfy, or out to dinner because they look so nice. Oh yeah, the pedals are expensive too. Thanks for reading, now go ride your bike!

    Ps. Nice bike!

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by pooheadx
    Having clipless pedals have caused many (if not all) people to crash, but NOT having clipless pedals hasn't caused anyone to crash. I mean have you ever heard someone say, Gee if I only had some clipless pedals I might not have fallen over and hit my head on the ground? No. You havent. There's a pretty damn good reason for that.
    Well, then hear me as the first one and a friend of mine the second one.
    With a regular pedal, you can slide of it, it has happened quite a lot of times that I thought, Gee, if I didn't have clipless pedals now, I would have crashed. A friend of mine had this last year, he did slide of his pedal and got the point of his saddle in the the lowest bone of your back. He was not able to sit comfortable for a couple of weeks.
    So how I see it, I have 99.999% of the times that I say, that the pedals saved me from crashing. The times that I crash because of them, well that's because I was plain stupid
    By the way, I'm doing more XC oriented. If you go more extreme, then I can understand that you don't want them.

    Also I wouldn't use a bike that costs quite a bit to get to the movie or the groceries.
    When I go to work, I just use my cycle shoes and put on another pair of normal shoes if I get there.

    Nice bike by the way

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trevorken
    When I go to work, I just use my cycle shoes and put on another pair of normal shoes if I get there.

    Nice bike by the way
    If you get there? LOL!!! Hmmm....it's a really nice day...lets see, work or ride...work or ride........screw work I'm ridin'!!!!!

    I can totally understand

  24. #24
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    if i missed someone saying this than my bad but dont you think that your shops weight scale could be off? i mean 2 lbs is not that off for a scale, that means that if you put 100lbs on it it would have a 2% inacurracy, thats not bad. i have a spark 20 in a med and on the scott site it says it should be 24.67lbs, well mine with pedals is 25.75lbs. thats pretty close to what the website says it should be. plus everyone else is right about the weight issue, 26 is light enough for a trail bike.

  25. #25
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    Cool, thanks everyone. This thread started with the weight issue then took a whole nuther' direction. I learned a lot and now feel Scoot didn't cheat me on the numbers.

    Also ~ I think I'm going to stay with platform pedals for now since I'm using the bike for everything. Maybe, if one day I get totally hooked on XC and then get a dedicated road bike I might try the clipless. Or, if I make a new cycling friend that uses them & wears the same size shoe maybe I could give'm a try.

    Thanks

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