Lock-tite or Ti prep on Ti rotor bolt? Came loose on Ti prep.- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Lock-tite or Ti prep on Ti rotor bolt? Came loose on Ti prep.

    I bought some Ti brake rotor bolts, put some Ti prep on them and torqued them to 4 NMs. After 3 rides the front rotor came loose.
    Do I up the torque or swap to lock-tite on the Ti threads?
    Thanks.

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  2. #2
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    I use lock-tite without issue and ride in the PNW. If you're concerned with corrosion you could use the stuff that cures in air and apply the prep as well.
    It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society.

  3. #3
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    I double-checked, and Magura, and Shimano (for their 6-bolt versions) do indeed recommend a max of 4Nm of torque.

    That said, I've been using Ti bolts, with just prep for years, and have never had any come loose - not a single bolt. You shouldn't have to use loc-tite - I almost wonder if your wrench is significantly out of calibration. (?)

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by WHALENARD View Post
    I use lock-tite without issue and ride in the PNW. If you're concerned with corrosion you could use the stuff that cures in air and apply the prep as well.
    I think the concern is the ti self cold-welding to the hub threads if they are aluminum, not corrosion.
    WTB: Med Bontrager Ti Lite, PM Me...

  5. #5
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    Exactly.

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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by phlegm View Post
    I double-checked, and Magura, and Shimano (for their 6-bolt versions) do indeed recommend a max of 4Nm of torque.

    That said, I've been using Ti bolts, with just prep for years, and have never had any come loose - not a single bolt. You shouldn't have to use loc-tite - I almost wonder if your wrench is significantly out of calibration. (?)
    It's a thought. Just re-torqued to 5nm with no other changes.
    I had tightened the front rotor bolts on the trail yesterday so they were fine. However the rears rotor bolts were coming loose as well.
    And yes, my concern with using lock-tite is that the Ti bolts will cold weld to my hubs in time.
    Maybe I can use both compounds, just add lock-tite without cleaning off the Ti- prep?

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  7. #7
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    How about just getting rid of the titanium bolts on your brakes? Why would you compromise on strength for such a critical component?

  8. #8
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    Make sure you rotate the rotor back before you tighten. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f03zSHxxp9w
    Salsa Carbon Bucksaw- Trek Farley 8

  9. #9
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    Never heard of that, makes sense however. Thx
    Ti is strong, no concerns of them failing.

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  10. #10
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    How would aluminum cold weld itself across the distance of a 5mm bolt? Anybody have any literature on this phenomena? Surely the concern is oxidation/galvanic corrosion?... to which loctite is also an adequate barrier to my understanding.
    It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society.

  11. #11
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    I use more torque than that and Loctite blue on Ti rotor bolts.
    Keep the Country country.

  12. #12
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    Think I'm going to remove the bolts clean off the Ti prep a little bit and put a little blue loctite on it. Then back to 4 NM.

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  13. #13
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    Sram Centerline rotors have a recommended torque of 6.2 Nm etched on them, so I'm torquing all my rotors at 6 Nm. I can't see any reason to use as little as 4 Nm for this application.

  14. #14
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    Well the size of the bolt/ nut in large part determines how much torque is required, not the item being held.

    And I have 6 small bolts compared to 1 larger nut for CL rotors.

    Anyways, it's done, 4 NM with blue locktite.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Suns_PSD View Post
    Never heard of that, makes sense however. Thx
    Ti is strong, no concerns of them failing.

    Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk
    Sorry missed this comment. I'll try to find a scientific article but cold welding is super common with ti components, everything from brake bosses to seatposts are at risk. Aluminum is less common but ti to al happens as well.
    WTB: Med Bontrager Ti Lite, PM Me...

  16. #16
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    I wonder if coating bolts and things with medium strength threadlocker acts as a barrier and keeps things from bonding together or or acts as a anti sieze also.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtnbikerva1 View Post
    I wonder if coating bolts and things with medium strength threadlocker acts as a barrier and keeps things from bonding together or or acts as a anti sieze also.
    From what I've read and personal experience it does.
    It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society.

  18. #18
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    Antisieze helps to prevent galvanic corrosion by providing a metal that will give away its ions. In case of ti and aluminum the ti will steal ions from the aluminum, but if antisieze is present then it will take from the zinc instead.

    Removable threadlocker seals the threads away from air and water which also hugely reduces galvanic corrosion. By protecting the threads from corrosion it prevents the bolt from loosening.

    I've never seen corrosion on a bike without water present. Im sure its possible with enough time but ive never seen it.

    With water present i've seen a steel bolt turn surrounding aluminum into a sponge that i could break with my hands, and titanium is hungry-er than steel.

    In neither of these cases is the compound going to prevent loosening until corrosion has occurred, like others have said its the bolt stretch from proper torque that keeps bolts tight. Ti is stretchier than steel so the steel torque spec should have been adequate.

    I dont know what the perfect approach is here. I would use locktite 242... Same as i use for my steel brake bolts.

    Wikipedia has good description of galvanic corrosion.

    Torque wrench: A beam style wrench is almost infallibly accurate. I have a cheap small nieko from amazon and i love it. Torque on small bolts is important, very easy to overtighten and wreck something expensive.
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by eri View Post
    ...

    Torque wrench: A beam style wrench is almost infallibly accurate. I have a cheap small nieko from amazon and i love it. Torque on small bolts is important, very easy to overtighten and wreck something expensive.
    Excellent post. Pretty sure calibration can be put off if the wrench in question has been dropped - perhaps a few times over the years, so perhaps not infallible.

    I suspected a wrench issue in my earlier reply because the torque setting the OP references is the one also suggested by known manufacturers, and I use the same amount. I've never had a bolt go loose with just Ti prep, so suspected unintentional under-torquing, although agree it is probably rare.

  20. #20
    eri
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    Quote Originally Posted by phlegm View Post
    Excellent post. Pretty sure calibration can be put off if the wrench in question has been dropped - perhaps a few times over the years, so perhaps not infallible.

    I suspected a wrench issue in my earlier reply because the torque setting the OP references is the one also suggested by known manufacturers, and I use the same amount. I've never had a bolt go loose with just Ti prep, so suspected unintentional under-torquing, although agree it is probably rare.
    Cheap Non-beam type torque wrenches... sometimes that means a lubed notch and a spring. Dropping can hurt their accuracy, but the cheap spring loses its force over time. Owner does nothing wrong and it still lies.

    reminds me of that far side comic where the scowling witch is being yelled at by the parents: “Let me get this straight... we hired you to babysit the kids and instead you killed and ate them both?”

    Someone went to the trouble of buying a torque wrench AND they bothered to use it, and then it lies to them? It’s the very opposite of getting your moneys worth.

    And all the time customer could have bought a beam wrench, technology from the 1920s which pretty much only depends on a metals Reynolds number for accuracy. If the steel beam isn’t cut or badly bent and the zero is centered then you know it’s accurate. Period. So cool.
    the truth is always a gift because it offers the recipient of that information the chance to change the outcome - Grace Choi

  21. #21
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    "only depends on a metals Reynolds number"

    Can you elaborate on this or was it a typo? The only Reynolds number I am familiar with in the field of engineering is a dimensionless parameter used in fluid flow calculations.

    I think you meant to reference Young's modulus of the metal beam of the wrench.

  22. #22
    eri
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cleaner View Post
    "only depends on a metals Reynolds number"

    Can you elaborate on this or was it a typo? The only Reynolds number I am familiar with in the field of engineering is a dimensionless parameter used in fluid flow calculations.

    I think you meant to reference Young's modulus of the metal beam of the wrench.
    Ah!! Yes please. Young’s modulus, sorry! And thanks for reading and correcting that.
    the truth is always a gift because it offers the recipient of that information the chance to change the outcome - Grace Choi

  23. #23
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    Lock-tite or Ti prep on Ti rotor bolt? Came loose on Ti prep.-18bd06fe-b4f7-4513-9649-3457c03078ff.jpeg
    the truth is always a gift because it offers the recipient of that information the chance to change the outcome - Grace Choi

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